Is there a formal name for this octave?
November 17, 2010 8:08 PM Subscribe
The F below middle C to the F above.
If someone sings mainly in that octave, what would that singer be; a tenor or an alto?
I googled this question, but didn't get a clear answer.
I'm a tenor, and that's the part of my range where I sing the most. Difficulty: very little formal training in music.
posted by infinitewindow at 8:12 PM on November 17, 2010
posted by infinitewindow at 8:12 PM on November 17, 2010
I'd call that a tenor. It's right in the sweet spot for that range.
posted by zippy at 8:13 PM on November 17, 2010
posted by zippy at 8:13 PM on November 17, 2010
Also from the same wikipedia article:
Vocal range itself can not determine a singer's voice type. While each voice type does have a general vocal range associated with it, human singing voices may possess vocal ranges that encompass more than one voice type or are in between the typical ranges of two voice types. Therefore, voice teachers only use vocal range as one factor in classifying a singer's voice.[2] More important than range in voice classification is tessitura, or where the voice is most comfortable singing, and vocal timbre, or the characteristic sound of the singing voice.[1] For example, a female singer may have a vocal range that encompasses the high notes of a mezzo-soprano and the low notes of a soprano. A voice teacher would therefore look to see whether or not the singer were more comfortable singing up higher or singing lower. If the singer were more comfortable singing higher than the teacher would probably classify her as a soprano and if the singer were more comfortable singing lower than they would probably classify her as a mezzo-soprano. The teacher would also listen to the sound of the voice. Sopranos tend to have a lighter and less rich vocal sound than a mezzo-soprano. A voice teacher, however, would never classify a singer in more than one voice type, regardless of the size of their vocal range.[2]
AND, one final word: for me, the breaking point in this discussion would probably be whether the singer is male (tenor) or female (alto). But if it were a choral situation, the singer would potentially have a really hard time hitting the higher alto notes or the lower tenor notes.
posted by hansbrough at 8:14 PM on November 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
Vocal range itself can not determine a singer's voice type. While each voice type does have a general vocal range associated with it, human singing voices may possess vocal ranges that encompass more than one voice type or are in between the typical ranges of two voice types. Therefore, voice teachers only use vocal range as one factor in classifying a singer's voice.[2] More important than range in voice classification is tessitura, or where the voice is most comfortable singing, and vocal timbre, or the characteristic sound of the singing voice.[1] For example, a female singer may have a vocal range that encompasses the high notes of a mezzo-soprano and the low notes of a soprano. A voice teacher would therefore look to see whether or not the singer were more comfortable singing up higher or singing lower. If the singer were more comfortable singing higher than the teacher would probably classify her as a soprano and if the singer were more comfortable singing lower than they would probably classify her as a mezzo-soprano. The teacher would also listen to the sound of the voice. Sopranos tend to have a lighter and less rich vocal sound than a mezzo-soprano. A voice teacher, however, would never classify a singer in more than one voice type, regardless of the size of their vocal range.[2]
AND, one final word: for me, the breaking point in this discussion would probably be whether the singer is male (tenor) or female (alto). But if it were a choral situation, the singer would potentially have a really hard time hitting the higher alto notes or the lower tenor notes.
posted by hansbrough at 8:14 PM on November 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks, everyone! You're all so danged fast.
posted by BostonTerrier at 8:16 PM on November 17, 2010
posted by BostonTerrier at 8:16 PM on November 17, 2010
As others have said, that's a really narrow range. I'm a sometime choir singer with little formal training, and I can hit two Es below middle C and the F above, making me a comfortable baritone. Most of the true tenors I know could hit the G or A above middle C right down to at least an octave below middle C.
But hansbrough's last comment is spot on: if it's a guy singing, he's a tenor. If it's a girl, she's an alto. In both cases, their range would be limited to the point of making performance--or even singing from most hymnals--pretty difficult.
posted by valkyryn at 8:18 PM on November 17, 2010
But hansbrough's last comment is spot on: if it's a guy singing, he's a tenor. If it's a girl, she's an alto. In both cases, their range would be limited to the point of making performance--or even singing from most hymnals--pretty difficult.
posted by valkyryn at 8:18 PM on November 17, 2010
For starters, It's pretty rare for an alto to be required to sing as low as F below middle C. SATB choral works expect higher notes from the altos and lower notes from the tenors, but not as high as the sopranos and not as low as the basses, respectively. It's all relative.
The truth, however, is that "alto" and "tenor" are gendered categories in practice, Men who sing in the alto range are often called countertenors, because some men object to being given a feminine label. For the same reason, boys whose voices have not changed are often called "trebles" instead of "sopranos".
Take it from me - I was a treble once. I took great offense at being called a soprano. (When you sing really high and you're trying to survive middle school, you cling to shreds of masculine identity until your voice changes and people stop asking where your gonads are.)
posted by LightStruk at 8:21 PM on November 17, 2010
The truth, however, is that "alto" and "tenor" are gendered categories in practice, Men who sing in the alto range are often called countertenors, because some men object to being given a feminine label. For the same reason, boys whose voices have not changed are often called "trebles" instead of "sopranos".
Take it from me - I was a treble once. I took great offense at being called a soprano. (When you sing really high and you're trying to survive middle school, you cling to shreds of masculine identity until your voice changes and people stop asking where your gonads are.)
posted by LightStruk at 8:21 PM on November 17, 2010
In that octave, the difference between an alto and a tenor is probably going to be mostly timbral. For me (D3ish-G5), it's solidly in my mid voice, I can put out a lot of sound, and it's a mellow, dense texture; a tenor I frequently share a part with prefers to work that range in head voice and his production is clear and light. (Then again, I've also worked with tenors who had a huge, incredible sound in that range.)
As LightStruk points out, saying male = tenor, female = alto may not be strictly accurate in some circles -- countertenors and skilled falsettists sometimes get classed as male altos. Female tenor is in my experience a less common classification; though I know lots of low-ranged women who switch-hit when necessary, they're usually described as mezzos or altos that happen to have a lower-than-usual tessitura.
I'm not sure I agree with F3 being an unusually low note for altos; G3 and F3 are comfortably in the range of everyone in my section, and we use them often.
posted by dorque at 8:26 PM on November 17, 2010
As LightStruk points out, saying male = tenor, female = alto may not be strictly accurate in some circles -- countertenors and skilled falsettists sometimes get classed as male altos. Female tenor is in my experience a less common classification; though I know lots of low-ranged women who switch-hit when necessary, they're usually described as mezzos or altos that happen to have a lower-than-usual tessitura.
I'm not sure I agree with F3 being an unusually low note for altos; G3 and F3 are comfortably in the range of everyone in my section, and we use them often.
posted by dorque at 8:26 PM on November 17, 2010
(This is all coming from a classically-trained background; other perspectives may vary.)
posted by dorque at 8:27 PM on November 17, 2010
posted by dorque at 8:27 PM on November 17, 2010
That octave happens to be good for both altos and tenors. I'm an alto and my most comfortable chest-voice notes are E3-A3.
posted by ms.codex at 8:51 PM on November 17, 2010
posted by ms.codex at 8:51 PM on November 17, 2010
To answer the question exactly as you've asked it, if someone sings mainly in the range you've indicated, they might be an alto or a tenor. Which it is would depend on whether they are more comfortable extending into the range higher than the one indicated or the range lower than the one indicated, whether they are female or male (sort of), and the vocal quality. Also, as many people have already pointed out, that's a very limited range, and most alto and tenor parts would not be written "mainly" in that range, although a good share of the notes would easily fall within it.
posted by bardophile at 9:02 PM on November 17, 2010
posted by bardophile at 9:02 PM on November 17, 2010
If it's a woman, it's an alto -- lower than that would be a tenor. If it's a man, a tenor could sing it, but they'd virtually have to be a castrati to be an alto.
just passing this along from someone who knows better. NOT CASTRATI-IST
posted by davejay at 10:00 PM on November 17, 2010
just passing this along from someone who knows better. NOT CASTRATI-IST
posted by davejay at 10:00 PM on November 17, 2010
That octave is the classic core of tenor range, especially in a choral setting. Someone whose core is that octave would be more easily able to sing tenor parts than alto parts (the alto parts would commonly push a fifth higher than that octave, and the tenor parts would rarely push more than a third lower).
Gender question is not as straightforward as some answers are making it out to be:
- In choral contexts, there are often females who self-identify as a "female tenor," although "male alto" is rare.
- In solo-performer contexts, a "female tenor" is essentially unheard of (the term "contralto" is used for the lowest-voiced female soloists), and a "male alto" is quite rare (the term "countertenor" is generally how males self-identify if they've extended their ranges higher than typical tenor range).
(Of course there's no such thing as a castrato today, but several lived late enough that there are recordings of them...)
posted by kalapierson at 12:38 AM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
Gender question is not as straightforward as some answers are making it out to be:
- In choral contexts, there are often females who self-identify as a "female tenor," although "male alto" is rare.
- In solo-performer contexts, a "female tenor" is essentially unheard of (the term "contralto" is used for the lowest-voiced female soloists), and a "male alto" is quite rare (the term "countertenor" is generally how males self-identify if they've extended their ranges higher than typical tenor range).
(Of course there's no such thing as a castrato today, but several lived late enough that there are recordings of them...)
posted by kalapierson at 12:38 AM on November 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
Technically, alto is a male voice (the root of the word comes from Latin/Italian 'high' as it's the highest adult male voice - and it's not that rare in a choral context; certainly not in church music - and male-only close-harmony singing); the female equivalent is contralto. These days, it all tends to end up being called 'alto'. Agree with the above; most of the men I know who sing alto parts call themselves 'counter-tenors'.
F3-F4 is actually reasonable for the top end of the baritone range, too. I'm a high-ish baritone, and reliably go about a third above F4 in chest voice. On a really good day I can do Cs; but not consistently enough to ever want to have to.
posted by monkey closet at 2:12 AM on November 18, 2010
F3-F4 is actually reasonable for the top end of the baritone range, too. I'm a high-ish baritone, and reliably go about a third above F4 in chest voice. On a really good day I can do Cs; but not consistently enough to ever want to have to.
posted by monkey closet at 2:12 AM on November 18, 2010
Of course there's no such thing as a castrato today, but several lived late enough that there are recordings of them..
I think only Moreschi managed it (he's certainly the only true castrato on the list of recordings there), and he was well past his prime when the recordings were made. I'm not convinced that they're a great record of the voice. The tracks that feature the Vatican choir are a really interesting window on performance practice of the time, though...
posted by monkey closet at 2:18 AM on November 18, 2010
I think only Moreschi managed it (he's certainly the only true castrato on the list of recordings there), and he was well past his prime when the recordings were made. I'm not convinced that they're a great record of the voice. The tracks that feature the Vatican choir are a really interesting window on performance practice of the time, though...
posted by monkey closet at 2:18 AM on November 18, 2010
If you add in the tonal quality of the voice, which in some circumstances is more important than the range, you can determine the voice type with the Fach system. The Wikipedia article is a bit spare on descriptive terms, so the IPA site may come in handy.
posted by thatdawnperson at 8:06 AM on November 18, 2010
posted by thatdawnperson at 8:06 AM on November 18, 2010
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The following are the general vocal ranges associated with each voice type using scientific pitch notation where middle C=C4. Some singers within these voice types may be able to sing somewhat higher or lower[1]:
* Soprano: C4 – C6
* Mezzo-soprano: A3 – A5
* Contralto: F3 – F5
* Tenor: C3 – C5
* Baritone: F2 – F4
* Bass: E2 – E4
The range you're talking about is pretty limited (all the listed ranges are 2 octaves, whereas your example is only one octave). Your singer would basically be singing in the alto-tenor overlap area.
posted by hansbrough at 8:11 PM on November 17, 2010