Why can't they be friends
November 4, 2010 7:17 AM Subscribe
Cats that have lived together for six years now hate each other. What can I do?
We have two cats. We got them both when they were kittens. They grew up together but aren't from the same litter. Our Siamese is younger than our orange kitty, and always took the more submissive role in their relationship. Both are fixed makes.
About a month ago we had a kitten stay with us for a week before going off to his forever home. This seriously disrupted our cats dynamic. Orange kitty was angry and aggressive, feeling threatened. Siamese kitty was curious and didn't seem upset at all. He cleaned the kitten and played with him, but he was upset by orange kitty being so grumpy. He'd try to go visit him to see what was wrong and would get hissed at.
Then I made a huge mistake. I locked up orange kitty and Siamese kitty in a room together while I went to work about five days into new kittens stay. I don't know what transpired but now orange kitty is terrified of Siamese kitty and Siamese kitty stalks and beats up orange kitty. The kitten has been gone for weeks now and this dynamic hasn't changed. Previously dominate orange kitty spends his day up on the counter where Siamese kitty can't get him and if he comes down he gets beat up.
This is very strange to see since Siamese kitty was never aggressive and was clearly the submissive of the two. We have to lock then in separate rooms in order to keep the peace at night. I feel awful for both of them. We live in a tiny apartment that has a bathroom, bedroom, and living area so there aren't many options for giving them there own space.
Here's what I have tried:
- Feliway spray, tho I didn't stick to it well.
- Separating them for a long time. Siamese kitty just attacks when orange kitty comes out and orange kitty is constantly terrified anyway.
- Letting them be together to work it out. Orange kitty will sit up on counter and refuse to come down.
- Spraying Siamese kitty when he shows aggression. He doesn't care.
Any tips? I feel so bad for my kitties!
We have two cats. We got them both when they were kittens. They grew up together but aren't from the same litter. Our Siamese is younger than our orange kitty, and always took the more submissive role in their relationship. Both are fixed makes.
About a month ago we had a kitten stay with us for a week before going off to his forever home. This seriously disrupted our cats dynamic. Orange kitty was angry and aggressive, feeling threatened. Siamese kitty was curious and didn't seem upset at all. He cleaned the kitten and played with him, but he was upset by orange kitty being so grumpy. He'd try to go visit him to see what was wrong and would get hissed at.
Then I made a huge mistake. I locked up orange kitty and Siamese kitty in a room together while I went to work about five days into new kittens stay. I don't know what transpired but now orange kitty is terrified of Siamese kitty and Siamese kitty stalks and beats up orange kitty. The kitten has been gone for weeks now and this dynamic hasn't changed. Previously dominate orange kitty spends his day up on the counter where Siamese kitty can't get him and if he comes down he gets beat up.
This is very strange to see since Siamese kitty was never aggressive and was clearly the submissive of the two. We have to lock then in separate rooms in order to keep the peace at night. I feel awful for both of them. We live in a tiny apartment that has a bathroom, bedroom, and living area so there aren't many options for giving them there own space.
Here's what I have tried:
- Feliway spray, tho I didn't stick to it well.
- Separating them for a long time. Siamese kitty just attacks when orange kitty comes out and orange kitty is constantly terrified anyway.
- Letting them be together to work it out. Orange kitty will sit up on counter and refuse to come down.
- Spraying Siamese kitty when he shows aggression. He doesn't care.
Any tips? I feel so bad for my kitties!
Cat vs. Cat suggests separating the cats and going through introduction phase as if they've never met each other before. I've never actually done it myself, but that book specifically addresses territorial aggression when it's between cats that previously have been at peace. There are step by step instructions in the book, I think in the chapter on aggression.
I personally would make sure to wash everything that the kitten had touched to remove that threatening new cat smell, and maybe even get a new litter box.
posted by Shusha at 7:41 AM on November 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
I personally would make sure to wash everything that the kitten had touched to remove that threatening new cat smell, and maybe even get a new litter box.
posted by Shusha at 7:41 AM on November 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
The Feliway Diffuser is one of those products that Just Works. I am super skeptical of woowoo science products, but when our cats started getting aggressive in our new house we decided to give it a shot. It seemed to work pretty well, but recently they had been ramping up the violence again and I got discouraged. Checked the Feliway, and lo and behold, the bottle was empty. Put in a refill and it's back to (relative) peace.
Put it in the room that they spend most of their time in (and get multiples if there are multiple places they hang out).
The Furminator (and cheaper knockoffs) is another pet product in the Just Works category, BTW.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:08 AM on November 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Put it in the room that they spend most of their time in (and get multiples if there are multiple places they hang out).
The Furminator (and cheaper knockoffs) is another pet product in the Just Works category, BTW.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:08 AM on November 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
The cat psychology I've read about is that when a new cat appears the submissive cat frequently looks at that as an opportunity to shake up existing cat power structure. This has happened at our house a couple times when a new cat has been hanging out in the yard (where it is comical because the submissive cat is a size smaller than the dominant cat and yet the big guy cowers in fear when the little one gets pissed off). We have had luck with the Feliway Diffuser--it looks like an air freshener and you plug it in the wall. We also live in a small place and one diffuser in the living room where they usually hang out seems to be sufficient, but you could also try one in each room.
I've also heard, and this may be nonsense but we tend to follow it in our house, that treating the (formerly) dominant cat as dominant helps. Feed him first, greet him first, give him rubs first. If the other cat sees that the power structure has not changed in your eyes, he may back off and quit being so aggressive.
posted by hydropsyche at 8:13 AM on November 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
I've also heard, and this may be nonsense but we tend to follow it in our house, that treating the (formerly) dominant cat as dominant helps. Feed him first, greet him first, give him rubs first. If the other cat sees that the power structure has not changed in your eyes, he may back off and quit being so aggressive.
posted by hydropsyche at 8:13 AM on November 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
I third the Feliway Diffuser. Without it, my house about a year and a half ago would have been kitty carnage. (Or kitty dictator-run.)
posted by Kitteh at 9:34 AM on November 4, 2010
posted by Kitteh at 9:34 AM on November 4, 2010
Best answer: I used a product similar to the Feliway Diffuser when we moved recently - each cat got a collar that contained the pheremones. It worked really, really well.
posted by bookdragoness at 9:49 AM on November 4, 2010
posted by bookdragoness at 9:49 AM on November 4, 2010
You might find the answers to this recent, similar question useful: Why have these cats started fighting?
posted by Helga-woo at 10:03 AM on November 4, 2010
posted by Helga-woo at 10:03 AM on November 4, 2010
Don't feel bad about locking up the cats. We had to start locking up one of ours while we're at work or asleep. He's allowed out when we're home and awake. He's always in the same room and he's learned to go in there if we put our shoes on.
The two keys are to have a semischedule and to not make a big deal about locking him up or letting him out.
We felt awful about it but after about a month, one unexpected side effect was that the two cats who never got along are both happy to see each other to the point of mutual grooming and sharing a lap.
As best we can tell, being dumb humans, both cats know they get their own safe territory (spatially and temporally) and so they are happy enough to share the living room for short periods of time.
I am also on the phone so please blame mispelled words and run on sentances on that.
posted by arabelladragon at 10:07 AM on November 4, 2010
The two keys are to have a semischedule and to not make a big deal about locking him up or letting him out.
We felt awful about it but after about a month, one unexpected side effect was that the two cats who never got along are both happy to see each other to the point of mutual grooming and sharing a lap.
As best we can tell, being dumb humans, both cats know they get their own safe territory (spatially and temporally) and so they are happy enough to share the living room for short periods of time.
I am also on the phone so please blame mispelled words and run on sentances on that.
posted by arabelladragon at 10:07 AM on November 4, 2010
nthing Feliway diffuser. It runs for a month, and it's probably enough to take care of things. It would get expensive to do it permanently. Our two cats started getting into daily spats for whatever reason; the diffuser put an end to the problem and once the spray ran it out, the spats came back only sporadically, which we ascribe to cat geezerhood.
posted by beagle at 10:12 AM on November 4, 2010
posted by beagle at 10:12 AM on November 4, 2010
As a counterpoint, my girlfriend and I spent months trying Feliway diffusers to get our two older cats to stop attacking each other, and it had little-to-no effect on them. They never stopped fighting until one of them got too old and sick to move.
posted by dhalgren at 10:34 AM on November 4, 2010
posted by dhalgren at 10:34 AM on November 4, 2010
I have two Cat Psychology comments: (A) The Fearsome Cat, and (B) the Playful Cat
(A) The Fearsome Cat
It is possible to push friendly Siamese cats too far; then a switch flips, and they turn into Fearsome Cats. Normally (in my experience) the Fearsome Cat Switch resets by itself pretty quickly.
1. Speculation: When they were locked up together, S cat went over to O cat to be friendly, but O cat, in a bad mood, and feeling cornered, finally slashed or bit S cat. That flipped the Fearsome Cat Switch, and for some reason, in your S cat, it is not resetting.
2. Wild Speculation: Many Siamese cats LOVE kittens. Yours seems to fall into this category. Could he have been defending the kitten? (Do you know for certain that the Triggering Event took place without the kitten present?)
(B) The Playful Cat
3. Alternative Hypothesis: Are we looking at this the wrong way? S cat is play fighting! Like he did with the kitten. Having the kitten around reminded him of how much he likes play fighting, so now he keeps trying to play fight with his good buddy, O cat. But O cat is not into it. (Is S cat hissing or growling? Fluffing his fur out? Will he chase a knotted sock on the end of fishing pole toy instead of chasing O cat?)
----
Solutions for 1 or 2 may not work if it is actually 3.
posted by coffeefilter at 1:25 PM on November 4, 2010
(A) The Fearsome Cat
It is possible to push friendly Siamese cats too far; then a switch flips, and they turn into Fearsome Cats. Normally (in my experience) the Fearsome Cat Switch resets by itself pretty quickly.
1. Speculation: When they were locked up together, S cat went over to O cat to be friendly, but O cat, in a bad mood, and feeling cornered, finally slashed or bit S cat. That flipped the Fearsome Cat Switch, and for some reason, in your S cat, it is not resetting.
2. Wild Speculation: Many Siamese cats LOVE kittens. Yours seems to fall into this category. Could he have been defending the kitten? (Do you know for certain that the Triggering Event took place without the kitten present?)
(B) The Playful Cat
3. Alternative Hypothesis: Are we looking at this the wrong way? S cat is play fighting! Like he did with the kitten. Having the kitten around reminded him of how much he likes play fighting, so now he keeps trying to play fight with his good buddy, O cat. But O cat is not into it. (Is S cat hissing or growling? Fluffing his fur out? Will he chase a knotted sock on the end of fishing pole toy instead of chasing O cat?)
----
Solutions for 1 or 2 may not work if it is actually 3.
posted by coffeefilter at 1:25 PM on November 4, 2010
When we adopted a new kitten, our adult cat basically went on a murderous rampage. It was horrible. Then, in our 1400 square foot house we plugged in two Feliway diffusers. We refilled them each month. After one week the rage-filled attacks (by the old cat) stopped. After three months? These cats were in LOVE. We stopped using the Feliway, and a year later they're still best friends.
posted by BlahLaLa at 2:50 PM on November 4, 2010
posted by BlahLaLa at 2:50 PM on November 4, 2010
Feliway, by the by, isn't anything special -- it's just an extract of valerian root.
posted by dhartung at 9:46 PM on November 4, 2010
posted by dhartung at 9:46 PM on November 4, 2010
Perhaps try giving both cats a bath. Unbeknownst to me, one of my cats got sprayed by an outdoor cat (not mine) through a crack under our screen door. This resulted in Loony Toons-style cat fight balls rolling all over my apartment and breaking everything in sight.
I could not figure out why my cats suddenly hated each other when they had previously gotten along just dandily. This went on for days before I finally realized that my cat had been sprayed by the intruder and that the smell of the other cat's urine was the cause of all the hellacious fighting.
So maybe the kitten sprayed one of your cats? Or maybe his/her lingering aroma is causing the friction. As someone else mentioned, clean everything thoroughly. A mixture of equal parts water and vinegar works wonderfully to get out stinky cat smells and as a cleaner/disinfectant.
posted by Surinam Toad at 11:20 PM on November 4, 2010
I could not figure out why my cats suddenly hated each other when they had previously gotten along just dandily. This went on for days before I finally realized that my cat had been sprayed by the intruder and that the smell of the other cat's urine was the cause of all the hellacious fighting.
So maybe the kitten sprayed one of your cats? Or maybe his/her lingering aroma is causing the friction. As someone else mentioned, clean everything thoroughly. A mixture of equal parts water and vinegar works wonderfully to get out stinky cat smells and as a cleaner/disinfectant.
posted by Surinam Toad at 11:20 PM on November 4, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks everyone. Over a month later and they still hate each other, but with supervision they will sometimes tolerate being in the same room together. Still, 90% of the time orange kitty lives on the counter because he's terrified.
I took my siamese to the vet to rule out any illness. We've tried the Feliway diffuser and the spray. I've bathed them. The vet recommended the Good Behavior Collar from Sentry HC which is what we are trying now, but grumpy siamese is still going after orange kitty. We will see if the collars work out since we just started them both on wearing them. The vet said we needed to lock up siamese kitty away from orange kitty for an entire month. Logistically, this won't work since we live in a tiny apartment and the only place to lock him up would be the bathroom.
posted by rainygrl716 at 6:47 PM on December 9, 2010
I took my siamese to the vet to rule out any illness. We've tried the Feliway diffuser and the spray. I've bathed them. The vet recommended the Good Behavior Collar from Sentry HC which is what we are trying now, but grumpy siamese is still going after orange kitty. We will see if the collars work out since we just started them both on wearing them. The vet said we needed to lock up siamese kitty away from orange kitty for an entire month. Logistically, this won't work since we live in a tiny apartment and the only place to lock him up would be the bathroom.
posted by rainygrl716 at 6:47 PM on December 9, 2010
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posted by rainygrl716 at 7:25 AM on November 4, 2010