How do I handle a divorce with geographical complications?
November 1, 2010 8:16 PM Subscribe
I'm seriously considering asking my wife for a divorce but need help figuring out how to deal with the logistics.
We met when I was working abroad and carried on an 8000-mile, long-distance relationship. She came to the US on a spousal visa a little over three-and-a-half years ago and we've been married for only slightly less. The first year was unfulfilling, the second year was unhappy and the anxiety and frustration from the third year left me where I am now.
I need out or at least some room to breathe and listen to myself. One problem is that we're stuck in the same 600-square foot apartment with no space for alone time. The other problem is that my wife is 8000 miles away from home with almost no support network to lean on. We can get fifteen feet apart or 8000 miles apart. There's no in-between. She wants to either try work this out or get a divorce and then continue to live together in the same apartment until she "feels ready to go home". Neither option gives me the space I need to be able to deal with this. Further that kind of ultimatum pushes me to just end this and deal with the fallout as it happens.
How do I handle this situation? Has anyone else been in a divorce where one partner is "stuck" because of circumstance, living arrangement and stubbornness?
Extra info: I am looking into therapy. She is unwilling to see a marriage counsellor. No kids, first marriage for both of us.
We met when I was working abroad and carried on an 8000-mile, long-distance relationship. She came to the US on a spousal visa a little over three-and-a-half years ago and we've been married for only slightly less. The first year was unfulfilling, the second year was unhappy and the anxiety and frustration from the third year left me where I am now.
I need out or at least some room to breathe and listen to myself. One problem is that we're stuck in the same 600-square foot apartment with no space for alone time. The other problem is that my wife is 8000 miles away from home with almost no support network to lean on. We can get fifteen feet apart or 8000 miles apart. There's no in-between. She wants to either try work this out or get a divorce and then continue to live together in the same apartment until she "feels ready to go home". Neither option gives me the space I need to be able to deal with this. Further that kind of ultimatum pushes me to just end this and deal with the fallout as it happens.
How do I handle this situation? Has anyone else been in a divorce where one partner is "stuck" because of circumstance, living arrangement and stubbornness?
Extra info: I am looking into therapy. She is unwilling to see a marriage counsellor. No kids, first marriage for both of us.
I think your best course of action is to try renting a cheap room in a house with multiple roommates or another tiny apartment to get started again on your own. You can maybe offer to pay half the rent on the existing apartment if your ex-wife needs some time, but I'd put a hard limit of say, six months on that.
posted by mathowie at 8:31 PM on November 1, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by mathowie at 8:31 PM on November 1, 2010 [4 favorites]
yep. it was slightly different, but sure, i was there. it's kind of a nightmare. my experience with therapy is if you have the insurance, and you have the name of a therapist, most of them will get you right in for a meeting. you can explain up front that you are looking to solve a particular problem so that you don't get mired down in distracting crap that may take some time to work out. you need to get out of this thing that will develop into more of a nightmare, and you need some tools, fast. if you don't have any friends who have the time or the skills to help you through this, call the therapist and get on it. get professional help and opinions, STAT. see what's out there. the most important thing is to find a way to start shifting this situation before you really start digging yourself into a hole. you need to put in some serious work to change this, but it will change and you do have an opportunity here.
posted by bright and shiny at 8:32 PM on November 1, 2010
posted by bright and shiny at 8:32 PM on November 1, 2010
When my ex and I finally decided we would divorce, the lawyer told me not to leave -- I'd be abandoning the family home, I'd be unable to fight for full custody, etc.
So, I stayed in the house and went slowly, but incredibly, insane. It was awful. Worse than awful. Eventually I couldn't take it, found a place, convinced the landlord to let me move in early and got the hell out.
It was bad for the legal rights, bad for custody and truly made my ex mad at me. And you know what? I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I'd do it again sooner. What seemed impossible to do at the time seems impossible not to do in hindsight.
That first night alone in my new space, that was the first moment I could hear myself think clearly. And my brain said, "Oh god, (happy sigh) you should have done this years ago."
I repeated the phrase "gordian knot" to myself when it all seemed too tangled to solve.
Get air. Do what's right for you. And good luck.
posted by Gucky at 8:32 PM on November 1, 2010 [5 favorites]
So, I stayed in the house and went slowly, but incredibly, insane. It was awful. Worse than awful. Eventually I couldn't take it, found a place, convinced the landlord to let me move in early and got the hell out.
It was bad for the legal rights, bad for custody and truly made my ex mad at me. And you know what? I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I'd do it again sooner. What seemed impossible to do at the time seems impossible not to do in hindsight.
That first night alone in my new space, that was the first moment I could hear myself think clearly. And my brain said, "Oh god, (happy sigh) you should have done this years ago."
I repeated the phrase "gordian knot" to myself when it all seemed too tangled to solve.
Get air. Do what's right for you. And good luck.
posted by Gucky at 8:32 PM on November 1, 2010 [5 favorites]
Some friends of mine were in this situation, and to make it worse both worked from home. A very tiny home. While in the end they went through therapy and saved the marriage, what made the situation bearable (and probably gave the therapy space to work) was they agreed to a schedule where each (more or less in turn) left the house for a three-hour block of time to work at the library for the afternoon, or run errands and go find a coffeehouse to sit in, or whatever. That way each had some space away from the other and it made the living-on-top-of-each-other-while-trying-to-separate more bearable.
As noted, they did end up staying together, and it IS only a stopgap -- I can't imagine staying in such a situation would be anything less than awful, even if you can make it slightly less awful. But my friend said it kept her sane while they were in the worst of it.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:36 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
As noted, they did end up staying together, and it IS only a stopgap -- I can't imagine staying in such a situation would be anything less than awful, even if you can make it slightly less awful. But my friend said it kept her sane while they were in the worst of it.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:36 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
or get a divorce and then continue to live together in the same apartment until she "feels ready to go home".
Or have the conditions on permanent residence lifted? The immigration situation is, regrettably, relevant here, but I'd presume she's adjusted status after getting married, can work legally, etc. In which case, neither of you is really holding the other hostage, and as much as you think there's no in-between situation, there's some arrangement, perhaps similar to the one mathowie mentioned, if you want there to be one -- even if you think that getting any kind of space is going to be treated as finality, in which case you let the pieces fall where they may.
posted by holgate at 8:42 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
Or have the conditions on permanent residence lifted? The immigration situation is, regrettably, relevant here, but I'd presume she's adjusted status after getting married, can work legally, etc. In which case, neither of you is really holding the other hostage, and as much as you think there's no in-between situation, there's some arrangement, perhaps similar to the one mathowie mentioned, if you want there to be one -- even if you think that getting any kind of space is going to be treated as finality, in which case you let the pieces fall where they may.
posted by holgate at 8:42 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
When a person wants to "try to work things out", yet refuses to see a marriage counselor, that raises red flags for me. After all, if you two haven't been able to work them out on your own in three years, what makes her believe you two will manage to do so now?
Whatever else you do, find a space for yourself, and spend time there. I assume you can't afford another (small) apartment, or you'd already have it; so this is a good time to follow Eyebrows McGee's advice. I can say from experience that sometimes just agreeing to give each other breathing room can help a great deal.
Good luck.
posted by davejay at 9:13 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
Whatever else you do, find a space for yourself, and spend time there. I assume you can't afford another (small) apartment, or you'd already have it; so this is a good time to follow Eyebrows McGee's advice. I can say from experience that sometimes just agreeing to give each other breathing room can help a great deal.
Good luck.
posted by davejay at 9:13 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
Mod note: From the OP:
First, thanks all for the answers and support.posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:28 PM on November 1, 2010
Money is too tight for either of us to move out into even a cheap apartment or sublet room. My wife hasn't been working for about six months and they just laid-off 10 people at my work, so I'm a bit hesitant to sign even a month-to-month lease. I have enough savings to pay for about 2-months of dual living expenses, and that's cutting out things like cable/internet and subsisting on oatmeal and coffee. If anything happened during those two months -- laid off, unexpected medical expense, etc. -- we'd both be ruined. If I had any friends or family I could stay with longer-term, I'd be gone already.
@Eyebrows McGee -- I've been trying to spend more time at work or elsewheres. It's helped somewhat in that it gets me out of an anxiety inducing situation, but it's not really a solution. I've always been more of a sit-and-stare-out-the-window sort when dealing with emotional and relationship problems.
@holgate -- The entire immigration aspect is also weighing on me. She's had her 10-year greencard since last February. I'm still bound by the Affidavit of Support if she's in the country, married or not, and having her in the country post-divorce could raise all sorts of marriage-for-greencard flags.
Can you afford to, and would she agree to, go on a holiday to her home country? (note that I also don't understand any immigration aspects to doing this). Perhaps this would give both of you the space, while putting her in a position to have support from family and friends, and perhaps also for her to consider the reality of moving home.
I would frame it almost as you have, really - that neither of you can get any space in this situation and that you need it.
It is difficult to be in such circumstances with restricted finances, it does make it difficult to come up with options. But regardless, it may be that to pull this off, you will have to do coffee and oatmeal for a bit. Even in better circumstances, this sort of thing inevitably costs money for even if she could simply move into another apartment, you would both end up needing to kit out new apartments, put down deposits etc etc.
posted by AnnaRat at 9:56 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
I would frame it almost as you have, really - that neither of you can get any space in this situation and that you need it.
It is difficult to be in such circumstances with restricted finances, it does make it difficult to come up with options. But regardless, it may be that to pull this off, you will have to do coffee and oatmeal for a bit. Even in better circumstances, this sort of thing inevitably costs money for even if she could simply move into another apartment, you would both end up needing to kit out new apartments, put down deposits etc etc.
posted by AnnaRat at 9:56 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
Money is too tight for either of us to move out into even a cheap apartment or sublet room.
Okay fine then, what's your vehicle like? Do you have a gym membership? Serious suggestion, giving the tight boundaries you've set on this question: take a few days of clothes with you at a time, get a second job in the evening to keep yourself busy and in a well-lit location, and shower at the gym in the morning on the way to your day job. Pee in a bottle, or find a park or construction job site that leaves its bathroom open all night, or camp in a natural area where you can go in the woods. Stay at home from time to time if you can handle it. Alternatively, try couch-surfing. According to your own question, you really need your own space. So, don't let finances and obligation hold you in a miserable living situation.
posted by salvia at 10:40 PM on November 1, 2010
Okay fine then, what's your vehicle like? Do you have a gym membership? Serious suggestion, giving the tight boundaries you've set on this question: take a few days of clothes with you at a time, get a second job in the evening to keep yourself busy and in a well-lit location, and shower at the gym in the morning on the way to your day job. Pee in a bottle, or find a park or construction job site that leaves its bathroom open all night, or camp in a natural area where you can go in the woods. Stay at home from time to time if you can handle it. Alternatively, try couch-surfing. According to your own question, you really need your own space. So, don't let finances and obligation hold you in a miserable living situation.
posted by salvia at 10:40 PM on November 1, 2010
Money issues do nothing to help a marriage, I've been there. The best thing to do is to really try to pay off your debts, remove that stressor from your lives.
Is there anything you can do to help her feel less isolated, or less homesick? Does she miss a favorite food, or music, or tradition?
Could she try some hobbies or do some volunteer work. Things that can help her meet people to be friends with, confide in and that take her out of the house to be social some of the time? She might find a new career or calling that helps her feel part of the community, and less alien.
You could also look hobby or volunteering for a cause you agree with. It sounds like your support network is a bit thin where you are too. Are there meetups for people who are going through the immigration process, or their spouses?
The things won't solve the other issues you are dealing with, but it may help you each to be more independent and complete. With some other things in your lives, the overall stress of this situation should go down a little.
And yes, therapy is good for you. Also, you may want to see if there are places like the YMCA where you could stay the weekend to clear your head.
posted by dreamling at 10:42 PM on November 1, 2010
Is there anything you can do to help her feel less isolated, or less homesick? Does she miss a favorite food, or music, or tradition?
Could she try some hobbies or do some volunteer work. Things that can help her meet people to be friends with, confide in and that take her out of the house to be social some of the time? She might find a new career or calling that helps her feel part of the community, and less alien.
You could also look hobby or volunteering for a cause you agree with. It sounds like your support network is a bit thin where you are too. Are there meetups for people who are going through the immigration process, or their spouses?
The things won't solve the other issues you are dealing with, but it may help you each to be more independent and complete. With some other things in your lives, the overall stress of this situation should go down a little.
And yes, therapy is good for you. Also, you may want to see if there are places like the YMCA where you could stay the weekend to clear your head.
posted by dreamling at 10:42 PM on November 1, 2010
Not having friends you could stay with is the result of a series of small bad choices you've made. Commit to being the kind of friend who can offer and receive such help. Emotionally and logistically. Today you can start making small good choices that will add up as well as your small bad choices did. Priority one? No more sit-and-stare-out-the-window dealing with emotional and relationship problems. Movement in any direction works better because you can course correct. Your post here is movement, keep moving and course correcting.
She is not willing to go to couples therapy? You are free. You stay, she moves. Yeah but - stop. You both stepped in it, hard, and getting it off is going to be ugly and messy and will involve being the bad guy in the other persons eyes. You don't have to actively be a villain. You do need to get over yourself and take care right now of what you've put off too long already. She may be sent back, or to prison. You may go to prison. You really stepped in it, didn't you? Time to end the sitting and staring and suffering. Freedom, health and happiness to you both, in whatever form that takes.
posted by eccnineten at 4:01 AM on November 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
She is not willing to go to couples therapy? You are free. You stay, she moves. Yeah but - stop. You both stepped in it, hard, and getting it off is going to be ugly and messy and will involve being the bad guy in the other persons eyes. You don't have to actively be a villain. You do need to get over yourself and take care right now of what you've put off too long already. She may be sent back, or to prison. You may go to prison. You really stepped in it, didn't you? Time to end the sitting and staring and suffering. Freedom, health and happiness to you both, in whatever form that takes.
posted by eccnineten at 4:01 AM on November 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
Can you afford to, and would she agree to, go on a holiday to her home country?
I think this is a great idea (assuming no immigration issues). Since it sounds like you can't afford to pay for this, can your wife ask a relative at home to help out with a plane ticket and a place to stay for a few weeks?
posted by SuperSquirrel at 7:41 AM on November 2, 2010
I think this is a great idea (assuming no immigration issues). Since it sounds like you can't afford to pay for this, can your wife ask a relative at home to help out with a plane ticket and a place to stay for a few weeks?
posted by SuperSquirrel at 7:41 AM on November 2, 2010
Having just gone through something similar this year (now ex-wife 2000 miles from home with no support network and no steady job, living in the same apartment for 6 months after we broke up but before the court settled everything), here are my three pieces of advice:
1) Shop around for a lawyer. The rules vary so much state to state that you really have to get advice on this one. I talked to one in March who told me no WAY a judge would grant a divorce while we were still living together, and if I wanted to keep the house I'd have to get HER out somehow. For 4 months she kept telling me, "I'll be out by the first of the month," and then wasn't. Finally, I called around and found a lawyer who was like, "Dude, that other lawyer was stupid. I've had 3 divorces this month where the couples were still living together. The housing boom has that happening everywhere. Judges will grant it, and I promise you we'll get her out of your house asap." She was moved out a month later. Lesson: lawyers can vary dramatically in their quality, even for something as routine as a mutually agreed upon divorce.
2) Definitely go see a therapist. I found having a space every week where I could talk through and vent out what was on my mind was very helpful. I also talked to friends and family some, but a therapist was shockingly helpful (I had never used one before and didn't know what to expect, but now highly recommend it).
3) I couch-surfed quite a bit, even though I was still technically living at home. I owned the place prior the marriage and still own it afterwards. For the better part of 2 months during the whole thing I went home only to get fresh underwear. As you're saying, getting time AWAY from the whole mess was so key I can't even tell you.
Finally, I should just say that despite all the hassle, I couldn't be happier. It sounds like you'd be getting out early (my marriage lasted about 3 years as well) and don't have any kids.
Private message me if you want some more of the details.
posted by kryptonik at 10:43 AM on November 2, 2010
1) Shop around for a lawyer. The rules vary so much state to state that you really have to get advice on this one. I talked to one in March who told me no WAY a judge would grant a divorce while we were still living together, and if I wanted to keep the house I'd have to get HER out somehow. For 4 months she kept telling me, "I'll be out by the first of the month," and then wasn't. Finally, I called around and found a lawyer who was like, "Dude, that other lawyer was stupid. I've had 3 divorces this month where the couples were still living together. The housing boom has that happening everywhere. Judges will grant it, and I promise you we'll get her out of your house asap." She was moved out a month later. Lesson: lawyers can vary dramatically in their quality, even for something as routine as a mutually agreed upon divorce.
2) Definitely go see a therapist. I found having a space every week where I could talk through and vent out what was on my mind was very helpful. I also talked to friends and family some, but a therapist was shockingly helpful (I had never used one before and didn't know what to expect, but now highly recommend it).
3) I couch-surfed quite a bit, even though I was still technically living at home. I owned the place prior the marriage and still own it afterwards. For the better part of 2 months during the whole thing I went home only to get fresh underwear. As you're saying, getting time AWAY from the whole mess was so key I can't even tell you.
Finally, I should just say that despite all the hassle, I couldn't be happier. It sounds like you'd be getting out early (my marriage lasted about 3 years as well) and don't have any kids.
Private message me if you want some more of the details.
posted by kryptonik at 10:43 AM on November 2, 2010
Alternatively, try couch-surfing.
Usually I'm all for getting smart people like y'all into CS, but this is not the time for you, OP. This is not a good way to get alone time, time to think or reflect, or any sense of privacy. If you have extra emotional/legal drama going on, it will only add complications for you and potential hosts.
posted by whatzit at 12:05 PM on November 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Usually I'm all for getting smart people like y'all into CS, but this is not the time for you, OP. This is not a good way to get alone time, time to think or reflect, or any sense of privacy. If you have extra emotional/legal drama going on, it will only add complications for you and potential hosts.
posted by whatzit at 12:05 PM on November 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by amro at 8:21 PM on November 1, 2010 [1 favorite]