Should I choose between my boyfriend or my career....2 years in advance?
August 4, 2010 2:39 PM Subscribe
Should I choose between my boyfriend or my career....2 years in advance?
I am finishing up a PhD program at a good school. I have 2 years left. Presumably, I could do okay on the job market - I have a good topic, good letters, good teaching evals, and a couple of publications. However, given the job market lately - I know this is no guarantee of a good job. I also have wavered in the past about the job market (and grad school) - previously taking a break, discussing going into other areas, etc. So basically, I'm cautiously hopeful about an academic job, but not sure if I should expect or if I want it.
I met a great guy while in school. Best relationship of my life. We're happy, we have plans to move in together this next year. He is finishing up his grad school to get a teaching certificate and will be looking for a job come December. The job market isn't great for him either - music teachers aren't in high demand in most areas. He's 2 years younger than me (only 2 years out of undergrad, I'm 4 years out). He is from the area. He went to college and grad school in the area. His family is still in the area. He has never lived anywhere but here (he moved back in with his parents to save during grad school). He has orchestra groups and private students related to his career here that he is starting to establish.
Problem: He doesn't want to leave. We've been dating for over a year now - and while we've discussed the possibility of me moving away before, I think it finally sunk in to him. We had a talk about it recently - and he said there was little chance of him leaving to go with me. For my career, there's little chance I can make it work if I stay here. But, I've wavered on how much I want this as a career. And I am sure I could see the rest of my life with this man. But I don't know if I'll regret the decision. And I don't know if he'll change his mind. Is he being immature? Are we both being selfish? Should we break up now? Should we even be worrying about this now? What should I say to him?
I am finishing up a PhD program at a good school. I have 2 years left. Presumably, I could do okay on the job market - I have a good topic, good letters, good teaching evals, and a couple of publications. However, given the job market lately - I know this is no guarantee of a good job. I also have wavered in the past about the job market (and grad school) - previously taking a break, discussing going into other areas, etc. So basically, I'm cautiously hopeful about an academic job, but not sure if I should expect or if I want it.
I met a great guy while in school. Best relationship of my life. We're happy, we have plans to move in together this next year. He is finishing up his grad school to get a teaching certificate and will be looking for a job come December. The job market isn't great for him either - music teachers aren't in high demand in most areas. He's 2 years younger than me (only 2 years out of undergrad, I'm 4 years out). He is from the area. He went to college and grad school in the area. His family is still in the area. He has never lived anywhere but here (he moved back in with his parents to save during grad school). He has orchestra groups and private students related to his career here that he is starting to establish.
Problem: He doesn't want to leave. We've been dating for over a year now - and while we've discussed the possibility of me moving away before, I think it finally sunk in to him. We had a talk about it recently - and he said there was little chance of him leaving to go with me. For my career, there's little chance I can make it work if I stay here. But, I've wavered on how much I want this as a career. And I am sure I could see the rest of my life with this man. But I don't know if I'll regret the decision. And I don't know if he'll change his mind. Is he being immature? Are we both being selfish? Should we break up now? Should we even be worrying about this now? What should I say to him?
I don't think you need to make a decision right this minute! Unless of course, you are looking for a reason to break up...and the way you stated a few things makes me wonder if at least subconciously, maybe you are?
You sound at least certain that you want to move away and experience life once your schooling is done. I don't think you would be happy if you sacrificed that- it would mean putting your life on hold for a relationship, which leads to resentment. But a lot can happen in two years. I say if you are happy in the relationship and don't want to change that now, then just ride it out and see how you both feel in two years.
posted by Eicats at 2:46 PM on August 4, 2010
You sound at least certain that you want to move away and experience life once your schooling is done. I don't think you would be happy if you sacrificed that- it would mean putting your life on hold for a relationship, which leads to resentment. But a lot can happen in two years. I say if you are happy in the relationship and don't want to change that now, then just ride it out and see how you both feel in two years.
posted by Eicats at 2:46 PM on August 4, 2010
Is he being immature? Not a good question. Are we both being selfish? Sure, and what else would you be unless it was resentful. Should we break up now? Two years is a long time. Should we even be worrying about this now? Thinking about it but not worrying. What should I say to him? The truth about your ambivalence, your feelings and your hopes. Two years is a long long time to anticipate a decision about a relationship. There are just too many variables (internal and external), whims, coincidences, uncertainties in two years--fate has a way of helping us in situations like this. If the relationship deepens and the anxiety increases it will probably lead to a clarification.
posted by rmhsinc at 2:54 PM on August 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by rmhsinc at 2:54 PM on August 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
I am in a very similar situation. I'm working in a job that will help me with my career but isn't quite my career (para vs professional). I need to pay off some debt and once I have done that I am going to school to get my professional degree. There isn't an accredited school in my area and I'm not interested in distance education. Either way I would most likely have to move to get a professional job.
So in two years the debt is paid off and I'm moving. My live-in boyfriend (we have been together for 3 years, living together for 4 months) and I have decided not to decide until I've actually been accepted into a school and am making definite plans.
We both have family and friends in our current area, however I am pretty committed to leaving. He is more on the fence. He doesn't want to leave his friends and he is worried about finding a job while I am in school.
So, he may come with me or I may go it alone. Either way it seems silly to break off a good relationship now when neither one of us knows what is actually going to happen down the road. Right now we barely discuss it and we certainly don't agonize over it. We enjoy our time together. Can you two do the same? If so, there is no sense in breaking up over something two years down the line.
posted by ephemerista at 2:55 PM on August 4, 2010
So in two years the debt is paid off and I'm moving. My live-in boyfriend (we have been together for 3 years, living together for 4 months) and I have decided not to decide until I've actually been accepted into a school and am making definite plans.
We both have family and friends in our current area, however I am pretty committed to leaving. He is more on the fence. He doesn't want to leave his friends and he is worried about finding a job while I am in school.
So, he may come with me or I may go it alone. Either way it seems silly to break off a good relationship now when neither one of us knows what is actually going to happen down the road. Right now we barely discuss it and we certainly don't agonize over it. We enjoy our time together. Can you two do the same? If so, there is no sense in breaking up over something two years down the line.
posted by ephemerista at 2:55 PM on August 4, 2010
"Should I choose between my boyfriend or my career....2 years in advance?"
The answer to this question is no.
However, you should not fudge your intentions to move after you get your degree when you're in conversations with your boyfriend. And, if after two years neither of you has changed your minds, you should be sad and rail against the injustices of the fates---but don't be angry with one another.
So much can change in two years--but you can't know ahead of time how it will change.
By the way, this holds true for the two years following your degree. We are inrelationships that WILL change, and occasionally disappoint, over time.
posted by vitabellosi at 2:56 PM on August 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
The answer to this question is no.
However, you should not fudge your intentions to move after you get your degree when you're in conversations with your boyfriend. And, if after two years neither of you has changed your minds, you should be sad and rail against the injustices of the fates---but don't be angry with one another.
So much can change in two years--but you can't know ahead of time how it will change.
By the way, this holds true for the two years following your degree. We are inrelationships that WILL change, and occasionally disappoint, over time.
posted by vitabellosi at 2:56 PM on August 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
And I should probably add--If the relationship weakens and the anxiety decreases it will probably lead to clarification. Interestingly, as I was typing the previous answer my wife looked over my shoulder, read the Q and A and said--ask if she is just looking for a reason to break up.
posted by rmhsinc at 2:57 PM on August 4, 2010
posted by rmhsinc at 2:57 PM on August 4, 2010
people make marriages work without living in the same place 365 days a year. how do you feel about a marriage where you come home on the weekends and during breaks?
personally - "willingness to try new experiences and not being tied to a specific geographic area" were things on my "traits i want in a partner" but other people have different needs. do you?
2 years is double the length of your relationship, and you're not even sure if you'll be in the same career path, so how can you be sure he'll feel the same about moving? don't make any life long commitments until this is figured, but walking away over what might happen on the long end of 24 months from now seems rash.
posted by nadawi at 3:03 PM on August 4, 2010
personally - "willingness to try new experiences and not being tied to a specific geographic area" were things on my "traits i want in a partner" but other people have different needs. do you?
2 years is double the length of your relationship, and you're not even sure if you'll be in the same career path, so how can you be sure he'll feel the same about moving? don't make any life long commitments until this is figured, but walking away over what might happen on the long end of 24 months from now seems rash.
posted by nadawi at 3:03 PM on August 4, 2010
I'm leaning towards "cross that bridge when you come to it", but I have to say one thing.
If your boyfriend knows right now, two years in advance, that moving anywhere to be with you/help your career is totally out of the question, forever, period, especially if his reason is "but I like living here and don't particularly feel like moving away," you should take that as a sign.
posted by Sara C. at 3:10 PM on August 4, 2010 [17 favorites]
If your boyfriend knows right now, two years in advance, that moving anywhere to be with you/help your career is totally out of the question, forever, period, especially if his reason is "but I like living here and don't particularly feel like moving away," you should take that as a sign.
posted by Sara C. at 3:10 PM on August 4, 2010 [17 favorites]
Let the relationship develop and see where it takes you guys. In the meanwhile, don't be shy about discussing needs, wants, and priorities. Being aware of each of those areas for each other will help you make a decision (or make a mutual decision).
To give a personal example - my husband and I will be in a similar circumstance in the future (he is getting his PhD and is unlikely to get an academic offer in the area where we live now). We've discussed it and have come to the following conclusions... Although I love my job and couldn't imagine doing anything else that better suits my skills and personality, my husband's happiness is tied to his career whereas I see career as a way to make a living. His happiness is important to me, and it's more important to me than my current salary and comfort in the status quo. Therefore, if he gets such an offer, it makes sense to me that we would move, as much as I may not like it. I would consider it a mutual decision, and I don't expect to be resentful as long as he is considerate of how the change might affect me.
One person may say, "Isn't this relationship important enough to you to justify moving?" and the other could just as easily say, "Isn't this relationship important enough to you to justify staying?" So you have to discuss what other factors impact the decision (career, family, cost of living, environment, etc.).
posted by Terriniski at 4:31 PM on August 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
To give a personal example - my husband and I will be in a similar circumstance in the future (he is getting his PhD and is unlikely to get an academic offer in the area where we live now). We've discussed it and have come to the following conclusions... Although I love my job and couldn't imagine doing anything else that better suits my skills and personality, my husband's happiness is tied to his career whereas I see career as a way to make a living. His happiness is important to me, and it's more important to me than my current salary and comfort in the status quo. Therefore, if he gets such an offer, it makes sense to me that we would move, as much as I may not like it. I would consider it a mutual decision, and I don't expect to be resentful as long as he is considerate of how the change might affect me.
One person may say, "Isn't this relationship important enough to you to justify moving?" and the other could just as easily say, "Isn't this relationship important enough to you to justify staying?" So you have to discuss what other factors impact the decision (career, family, cost of living, environment, etc.).
posted by Terriniski at 4:31 PM on August 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think you are right to worry about this now because the stakes are really high. You've put years into your PHD, more than into this relationship. Are you prepared to give up this particular future path of yours for a relationship? What if that relationship didn't last? Is he prepared to entertain the idea of leaving with you? These are definitely conversations you should be having together before you move in with him.
posted by gillianr at 4:56 PM on August 4, 2010
posted by gillianr at 4:56 PM on August 4, 2010
If your boyfriend knows right now, two years in advance, that moving anywhere to be with you/help your career is totally out of the question, forever, period, especially if his reason is "but I like living here and don't particularly feel like moving away," you should take that as a sign.
Really? I totally disagree. For the entire course of humanity, the overwhelming majority of people have chosen to live near their families. In fact, that this is now no longer a given is a stark shift. I don't think this reflects the boyfriend's feelings toward to OP.
posted by namesarehard at 6:19 PM on August 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Really? I totally disagree. For the entire course of humanity, the overwhelming majority of people have chosen to live near their families. In fact, that this is now no longer a given is a stark shift. I don't think this reflects the boyfriend's feelings toward to OP.
posted by namesarehard at 6:19 PM on August 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
You are worrying about a problem you don't have. This is something to sort out when you have to.
Also, I'd choose a relationship I loved over a job.
posted by chunking express at 6:25 PM on August 4, 2010
Also, I'd choose a relationship I loved over a job.
posted by chunking express at 6:25 PM on August 4, 2010
I agree with IFDSS#9 that the best thing to do now is some serious thinking about your job/career options. Sometimes in grad school the pressure to get an academic job can be so overwhelming that it can seem like the choices are 1) years of stressing about whether and how you'll get one and 2) blowing the whole thing off and not worrying anymore... and sometimes a happy, non-stressful relationship can feel like a good excuse to choose #2. (I've been there.) But actually, if you don't go for / get an academic job, your process of figuring out how to become employed is only beginning. Your boyfriend might be able to support you through some time off, but it sounds like his career path is uncertain enough that you'll need to at least be ready to get a job sometime. What else would you be excited and qualified to do? Does the idea of having to figure that out make the idea of not going into academia seem less like a comfortable solution? Obviously some other path might be right for you, but whatever you do, better to do it intentionally.
posted by synchronia at 6:36 PM on August 4, 2010
posted by synchronia at 6:36 PM on August 4, 2010
Well, the main advantage to breaking up with him now is to be free to date other people. But what are the chances that in the next two years you'll find someone else who is both a good match and is willing to follow you wherever? Probably somewhat low -- sadly, societal expectations are that women follow men, not vice versa, and thus it's difficult to find a man willing to move to support his girlfriend's career.
I think your best bet is to stay in this relationship and see how you both feel about moving in two years when you actually have to make the decision. Maybe by then he'll love you so much that he's willing to move with you, or maybe you'll decide you don't really want an academic career. Or, maybe you guys won't be able to work it out and you'll have to break up, but then you'll be restarting your dating life in your new city and thus be dating guys who already want to live there.
BTW, universities are used to dealing with the "two body" problem of dual career couples. If your boyfriend is getting a graduate degree himself, then whatever department ends up employing you can probably help get him a job in the music department as at least an adjunct.
posted by Jacqueline at 6:56 PM on August 4, 2010
I think your best bet is to stay in this relationship and see how you both feel about moving in two years when you actually have to make the decision. Maybe by then he'll love you so much that he's willing to move with you, or maybe you'll decide you don't really want an academic career. Or, maybe you guys won't be able to work it out and you'll have to break up, but then you'll be restarting your dating life in your new city and thus be dating guys who already want to live there.
BTW, universities are used to dealing with the "two body" problem of dual career couples. If your boyfriend is getting a graduate degree himself, then whatever department ends up employing you can probably help get him a job in the music department as at least an adjunct.
posted by Jacqueline at 6:56 PM on August 4, 2010
I don't think this reflects the boyfriend's feelings toward to OP
It's not so much that I think it's a secret clue that he wants to break up with her. It's also not so much that I think it's wrong to stay in one place or weird not to want to move. But it reflects how seriously he takes the relationship and the extent to which he would be willing to put her needs above his wants. It's also something that is relatively unlikely to change if he's so serious about it so far in advance. If nothing else, it's an idea to get used to.
From where I see it, this is a definite on her end and a probably not on his. That's worth being aware of, at least. Sweeping it under the rug with, "oh, it's two years, he'll change his mind," isn't all that realistic.
posted by Sara C. at 7:17 PM on August 4, 2010
It's not so much that I think it's a secret clue that he wants to break up with her. It's also not so much that I think it's wrong to stay in one place or weird not to want to move. But it reflects how seriously he takes the relationship and the extent to which he would be willing to put her needs above his wants. It's also something that is relatively unlikely to change if he's so serious about it so far in advance. If nothing else, it's an idea to get used to.
From where I see it, this is a definite on her end and a probably not on his. That's worth being aware of, at least. Sweeping it under the rug with, "oh, it's two years, he'll change his mind," isn't all that realistic.
posted by Sara C. at 7:17 PM on August 4, 2010
I don't know jack about PhD's and all that, but how flexible is the degree that you are getting? Are you not going to be qualified for anything outside of academia, or could you manage to get employed doing something related to your degree in his area if necessary? Will you have wasted a lot of money and time if you graduate and then stay with this guy and can't do what you trained to do?
Mostly I'd say wait it out, but if you know from the getgo that you can only work in academia and thus you won't have a say about where you work, then that's going to be a different situation than if you can be more flexible about employment.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:47 PM on August 4, 2010
Mostly I'd say wait it out, but if you know from the getgo that you can only work in academia and thus you won't have a say about where you work, then that's going to be a different situation than if you can be more flexible about employment.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:47 PM on August 4, 2010
Is he being immature?
No, however the fact that you're interpreting his desires this way shows how different your priorities are. I think you'll be unhappy with someone who can find satisfaction living in one geographic area for the rest of his life. That's not to say that your desire to move about is wrong, or his desire to stay in one place is, either. Just that your priorities are clearly different.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:12 PM on August 4, 2010
No, however the fact that you're interpreting his desires this way shows how different your priorities are. I think you'll be unhappy with someone who can find satisfaction living in one geographic area for the rest of his life. That's not to say that your desire to move about is wrong, or his desire to stay in one place is, either. Just that your priorities are clearly different.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:12 PM on August 4, 2010
Whatever you do, don't drop out of your grad school program now. I know you didn't ask that but I'm afraid it's on your mind, reading between the lines of your question. Cross that bridge when you come from it, but don't burn any bridges now.
posted by hazyjane at 11:11 PM on August 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by hazyjane at 11:11 PM on August 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
A PhD is a lot of blood, sweat and tears. Being a woman (I got that vibe that from your post, is that correct?) and getting a PhD has its own cute little added challenges. Being a woman, getting a PhD, then giving up a potential academic career for a relationship will get you into all kinds of awkward job interviews and possible resentment in your relationship, which can be poisonous.
You have two years before you finish, so you don't need to really worry worry worry right now. But you do need to be cognizant of the choices coming up. Presumably, you need to bulk up your CV this year, and start applying for academic jobs next year. The hiring calendar starts way before you graduate.
I have more experience with this than I would ever wish on anybody. MeMail me if you would like to discuss.
posted by copperbleu at 12:33 AM on August 5, 2010
You have two years before you finish, so you don't need to really worry worry worry right now. But you do need to be cognizant of the choices coming up. Presumably, you need to bulk up your CV this year, and start applying for academic jobs next year. The hiring calendar starts way before you graduate.
I have more experience with this than I would ever wish on anybody. MeMail me if you would like to discuss.
posted by copperbleu at 12:33 AM on August 5, 2010
Which one would you regret most if you gave up on it?
What if the boyfriend turned out to be a jerk, or the job not the future you planned for yourself - which would disappoint you more?
posted by mippy at 7:16 AM on August 5, 2010
What if the boyfriend turned out to be a jerk, or the job not the future you planned for yourself - which would disappoint you more?
posted by mippy at 7:16 AM on August 5, 2010
I think you should talk to your boyfriend and be 100% honest about the conflicts you are experiencing. Someone you can see yourself living with should also be someone you can be open about big decisions like this with.
However, it is 2 years, and a lot can change in that time. I'd be open and honest about your concerns, and, even if you think you want to leave eventually instead, there's something to be said for making the most of life and enjoying your time together now anyway (as long as he's clear on the possibility too).
I would say this is something to think about (preferably together, if this is a serious relationship), but not something to fret over or decide for now.
posted by vienaragis at 6:07 PM on August 12, 2010
However, it is 2 years, and a lot can change in that time. I'd be open and honest about your concerns, and, even if you think you want to leave eventually instead, there's something to be said for making the most of life and enjoying your time together now anyway (as long as he's clear on the possibility too).
I would say this is something to think about (preferably together, if this is a serious relationship), but not something to fret over or decide for now.
posted by vienaragis at 6:07 PM on August 12, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
You finish grad school, and decide to stay in the area. Sometime down the road, for whatever reason, you two break up. Do you have enough ties in the area, and are you happy enough living there, that you'll be OK and not completely alone without him? Have you established your life enough that your reaction will be, "Well, this break up sucks," and not, "Well, this break up sucks and now I'm stuck on this life path I wouldn't have chosen for myself."
I won't advise you either way - but it's just something to consider.
posted by biochemist at 2:44 PM on August 4, 2010 [2 favorites]