Desire to constantly date new women...(books, thoughts, ideas).
May 15, 2010 10:59 AM Subscribe
Is it wrong to want to continually date new and interesting women? I'm almost 40 (male). Do I just need to grow up? Looking for book recommendations/advice/etc.
Hey all. This sounds shallow, but I really do want to hear some ideas/thoughts and hopefully even some good book recommendations. Especially since I'm about to go on a 10 day vacation and will have ample time to read, ponder, journal.
I've been with my current girlfriend for 4 years. She's awesome. I love her. She's very sweet, caring, good looking, and we really communicate well. OK, so what's the problem? There really isn't a problem with *us*, but there is a problem in my head with the idea of being with the same person FOREVER. It's been 4 years now and I'm now starting to crave other women. I haven't ever really faced this scenario before. Seriously, I haven't. I haven't been with someone long enough to have this odd mix of feelings. I've had other relationships that have lasted 2 or 3 years, but they've always ended from some fundamental "we're not right for each other" reason. No past relationship ended because I wanted to date other women while still loving the person I'm with. I've never cheated, and I wouldn't do that (I think it's lame and weak). I've never even cultivated a relationship on the side prior to breaking up with someone; I don't believe in safety nets. I believe in working things out or ending them; never dishonesty or deceit.
But now my philosophy on dating/marriage/etc is changing. I've read stuff about polyamory, and I'm very intrigued. I mostly like the idea of people dealing with their insecurities and wanting their partner to enjoy all that life has to offer. But it may be a bit too funky for me at this stage. I'm still not sure. I'm not a sex fiend, I'm more just wrestling with the idea that I don't think I believe in the long-term model of "just 2 people for the rest of my life". I mean, I do crave flirting with another woman, feeling that sexual energy, hearing her perspective on things, and experiencing those masculine feelings of initial hunting/dating. I do crave seeing another woman's naked body. Yes, it's true. Especially someone whose body is different in ways than my girlfriends' (something new and different). There are so many different aspects to people, and I always want to be continually learning and growing and experiencing new ideas; I just don't think it's realistic for me to lock down with one person romantically for the rest of my life. And, I also don't think it's realistic that I can provide everything someone else needs for the rest of their life. I can provide certain aspects where I have strengths, but I am also limited by my own set of unique experiences, talents, abilities and physical appearance. Why should my girlfriend only experience the things that I have to offer? And limit herself in that way also.
So, is this just a "guy thing"? From some of my reading ("Why We Love - The Nature and Chemistry of Romantic Love", by Helen Fisher) I understand that there are deeply programmed evolutionary/biological reasons for why we need to have committed relationships for a number of years. Basically, this need comes from the caveman days where the need for support (resources) during the child bearing and raising years. The mother really needs someone else (the man in this case) to gather the food and provide protection while the child is growing up until the child can survive on its own. I'm fine with that. Love it. But when those years go by... is it cool to get another girlfriend? I can foresee some comments saying "When will it end? Aren't you always going to be dissatisfied and continually always be chasing 'the next best thing?" To that I say, "I hope so!" When it comes to our education and careers, we always want to excel, pursue new opportunities, learn more, and not stagnate. Why should life and relationships be any different, as long as everybody is learning together, being open and honest, and treating each other with the utmost care and respect.
Anyway, clearly I haven't worked this all out. I'm looking for book ideas, thoughts, calling "bullshit" on me, coaching, etc.
Oh great MeFi members... bestow your wisdom! I really appreciate it.
Hey all. This sounds shallow, but I really do want to hear some ideas/thoughts and hopefully even some good book recommendations. Especially since I'm about to go on a 10 day vacation and will have ample time to read, ponder, journal.
I've been with my current girlfriend for 4 years. She's awesome. I love her. She's very sweet, caring, good looking, and we really communicate well. OK, so what's the problem? There really isn't a problem with *us*, but there is a problem in my head with the idea of being with the same person FOREVER. It's been 4 years now and I'm now starting to crave other women. I haven't ever really faced this scenario before. Seriously, I haven't. I haven't been with someone long enough to have this odd mix of feelings. I've had other relationships that have lasted 2 or 3 years, but they've always ended from some fundamental "we're not right for each other" reason. No past relationship ended because I wanted to date other women while still loving the person I'm with. I've never cheated, and I wouldn't do that (I think it's lame and weak). I've never even cultivated a relationship on the side prior to breaking up with someone; I don't believe in safety nets. I believe in working things out or ending them; never dishonesty or deceit.
But now my philosophy on dating/marriage/etc is changing. I've read stuff about polyamory, and I'm very intrigued. I mostly like the idea of people dealing with their insecurities and wanting their partner to enjoy all that life has to offer. But it may be a bit too funky for me at this stage. I'm still not sure. I'm not a sex fiend, I'm more just wrestling with the idea that I don't think I believe in the long-term model of "just 2 people for the rest of my life". I mean, I do crave flirting with another woman, feeling that sexual energy, hearing her perspective on things, and experiencing those masculine feelings of initial hunting/dating. I do crave seeing another woman's naked body. Yes, it's true. Especially someone whose body is different in ways than my girlfriends' (something new and different). There are so many different aspects to people, and I always want to be continually learning and growing and experiencing new ideas; I just don't think it's realistic for me to lock down with one person romantically for the rest of my life. And, I also don't think it's realistic that I can provide everything someone else needs for the rest of their life. I can provide certain aspects where I have strengths, but I am also limited by my own set of unique experiences, talents, abilities and physical appearance. Why should my girlfriend only experience the things that I have to offer? And limit herself in that way also.
So, is this just a "guy thing"? From some of my reading ("Why We Love - The Nature and Chemistry of Romantic Love", by Helen Fisher) I understand that there are deeply programmed evolutionary/biological reasons for why we need to have committed relationships for a number of years. Basically, this need comes from the caveman days where the need for support (resources) during the child bearing and raising years. The mother really needs someone else (the man in this case) to gather the food and provide protection while the child is growing up until the child can survive on its own. I'm fine with that. Love it. But when those years go by... is it cool to get another girlfriend? I can foresee some comments saying "When will it end? Aren't you always going to be dissatisfied and continually always be chasing 'the next best thing?" To that I say, "I hope so!" When it comes to our education and careers, we always want to excel, pursue new opportunities, learn more, and not stagnate. Why should life and relationships be any different, as long as everybody is learning together, being open and honest, and treating each other with the utmost care and respect.
Anyway, clearly I haven't worked this all out. I'm looking for book ideas, thoughts, calling "bullshit" on me, coaching, etc.
Oh great MeFi members... bestow your wisdom! I really appreciate it.
But when those years go by... is it cool to get another girlfriend?
This is the sort of question only you and your girlfriend can work out.
posted by peacheater at 11:03 AM on May 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
This is the sort of question only you and your girlfriend can work out.
posted by peacheater at 11:03 AM on May 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
IMO the whole "caveman days" trope is bullshit. Everyone is different. There are plenty of women who feel the way you do. You want to read some $30 bestseller pop-psychology doorstops? Go ahead. Lots of others do. Get a cartload of them at the airport on your way to vacation.
But it's bullshit. You are what you is.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 11:13 AM on May 15, 2010 [7 favorites]
But it's bullshit. You are what you is.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 11:13 AM on May 15, 2010 [7 favorites]
Yeah, there isn't a universal answer as to what is and isn't okay in terms of how many partners you have or how your relationships work. What is fairly universally accepted is that you need to be honest with the involved parties about this stuff. It's wrong to make explicit or implicit commitments that you don't intend to honor.
posted by jon1270 at 11:14 AM on May 15, 2010
posted by jon1270 at 11:14 AM on May 15, 2010
If it's not a sex thing, is it possible that you like women, but the only ones you have in your life are your girlfriend and your family? That is, you only date women, you don't friend them? Your serial-monogamy/grass-is-greener attitude may just be a desire for more different females in your life, and ones who are not merely your girlfriend's friends.
Why should my girlfriend only experience the things that I have to offer? And limit herself in that way also.
However, your second paragraph seems to say that yes, it is sort of a sex thing. While I don't know it's significance in the larger picture, thinking "why should I limit my girlfriend's life" is a dick move. You can say that committed relationships are a form of limitation, but it's one that the people involved want. It's clearly presumptuous for you to decide for her that she doesn't (or wouldn't) really want to be limited by a committed relationship. That said, you don't mention anything about what her expectations and understanding of your relationship might be.
And we aren't cavemen, stop looking to them for advice.
I do have a question, though: with your past relationships, who tended to break up with who? If it's the girl, then you don't have as much a handle on your own coupling habits as you try to illustrate above.
Is it that you can't see yourself staying with one person forever, or just whatever current girlfriend you have? There's nothing wrong with not having found the right person yet, but does it really take 4 years to figure out that your girlfriend isn't right for you?
posted by rhizome at 11:15 AM on May 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
Why should my girlfriend only experience the things that I have to offer? And limit herself in that way also.
However, your second paragraph seems to say that yes, it is sort of a sex thing. While I don't know it's significance in the larger picture, thinking "why should I limit my girlfriend's life" is a dick move. You can say that committed relationships are a form of limitation, but it's one that the people involved want. It's clearly presumptuous for you to decide for her that she doesn't (or wouldn't) really want to be limited by a committed relationship. That said, you don't mention anything about what her expectations and understanding of your relationship might be.
And we aren't cavemen, stop looking to them for advice.
I do have a question, though: with your past relationships, who tended to break up with who? If it's the girl, then you don't have as much a handle on your own coupling habits as you try to illustrate above.
Is it that you can't see yourself staying with one person forever, or just whatever current girlfriend you have? There's nothing wrong with not having found the right person yet, but does it really take 4 years to figure out that your girlfriend isn't right for you?
posted by rhizome at 11:15 AM on May 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
If you really believe in 100% honesty, you'll show this post to your girlfriend. (Wanting more isn't just a guy thing: for all you know, she's equally bored with you.) If she's not cool with it, you owe it to each other to move on.
posted by aquafortis at 11:20 AM on May 15, 2010
posted by aquafortis at 11:20 AM on May 15, 2010
Response by poster: responding to rhizome.
thanks for putting some thought into this.
Actually, it *is* a sex thing. I'm definitely interested in the sexual energy (and sex) aspects of relations with other women. In the OP I was just trying to indicate that it's not purely a "I'm desperate for sex" kinda thing, cuz I'm not.
RE: Dick move. I'm not presuming that my girlfriend wants anything outside our relationship. In fact, I know that she doesn't. You mention that committing to a limited relationship is something people want. Well, in my case... I don't think that's true. But again, I'm still exploring the idea. I certainly don't want it bad enough today. I'm more 'looking into these ideas now' so that I don't live a limited/hidden/not-true-to-myself life.
RE: past relationships.
It's almost always been me that has broken up with the other person. In one case, I was going through some hard times and just didn't think it was right to bring the other person through it. In most other cases, I just realized there was something about the other person I either didn't like, didn't think was healthy for me, or just lost interest in. This current situation is different. I haven't lost interest and I haven't lost respect for my GF. I still think she's wonderful, and I still think I'm wonderful (nobody is really *broken* really), it's just that I want to look at the long-term here.
Hope that helps explain more. thanks!
posted by sharingideas at 11:27 AM on May 15, 2010
thanks for putting some thought into this.
Actually, it *is* a sex thing. I'm definitely interested in the sexual energy (and sex) aspects of relations with other women. In the OP I was just trying to indicate that it's not purely a "I'm desperate for sex" kinda thing, cuz I'm not.
RE: Dick move. I'm not presuming that my girlfriend wants anything outside our relationship. In fact, I know that she doesn't. You mention that committing to a limited relationship is something people want. Well, in my case... I don't think that's true. But again, I'm still exploring the idea. I certainly don't want it bad enough today. I'm more 'looking into these ideas now' so that I don't live a limited/hidden/not-true-to-myself life.
RE: past relationships.
It's almost always been me that has broken up with the other person. In one case, I was going through some hard times and just didn't think it was right to bring the other person through it. In most other cases, I just realized there was something about the other person I either didn't like, didn't think was healthy for me, or just lost interest in. This current situation is different. I haven't lost interest and I haven't lost respect for my GF. I still think she's wonderful, and I still think I'm wonderful (nobody is really *broken* really), it's just that I want to look at the long-term here.
Hope that helps explain more. thanks!
posted by sharingideas at 11:27 AM on May 15, 2010
This is absolutely not just a guy thing. It's also totally normal in long term relationships.
You asked, "When it comes to our education and careers, we always want to excel, pursue new opportunities, learn more, and not stagnate. Why should life and relationships be any different?"
The answer is that they should not. While relationships are indeed very tidal entities, they should not be stagnant things. The key is that people who commit to the relationship funnel their energy into helping the relationship grow rather than chasing new tail. (I do not say that pejoratively; I like new tail as much as the next person with a healthy libido.)
If you want to explore the idea of of an open poly relationship and are interested in the practicalities of how that model works, I very highly recommend The Ethical Slut. It is the de-facto Poly 101 primer.
But here's the thing. Poly only works when you have a 100% absolute commitment to your partner. It's not a way to hedge your bet. You don't get to say "I will be 100% absolutely committed to you if you let me sleep with other people." You need to start from the foundation of "I am 100% committed to you. I'd like to explore the idea of having other partners with you, and look at how that could work in a way that we're both comfortable with." That's not where you are.
Also, while not a ton of poly people in my experience want to talk about this, I think it's important to acknowledge that poly is inherently high-risk behaviour. NRE is intoxicating. It takes enormous awareness and self-discipline to do the work of keeping your primary relationship emotionally and sexually primary while engaging in other relationships.
In other words, it takes a very special pair of people (incredibly well-grounded) and a very specific relationship type (incredibly committed) to make poly a healthy possibility before you even start screening happy thirds of any flavour.
But having said all of that, it's entirely possible that you are simply not suited for either long-term commitment and/or poly and are simply a serial monogamist. That's fine too; some people simply tip the risk vs reward balance later in life, or never at all. Making a clear assessment of that requires a lot of introspection and honesty and is a good and healthy journey to undertake in my experience.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:34 AM on May 15, 2010 [10 favorites]
You asked, "When it comes to our education and careers, we always want to excel, pursue new opportunities, learn more, and not stagnate. Why should life and relationships be any different?"
The answer is that they should not. While relationships are indeed very tidal entities, they should not be stagnant things. The key is that people who commit to the relationship funnel their energy into helping the relationship grow rather than chasing new tail. (I do not say that pejoratively; I like new tail as much as the next person with a healthy libido.)
If you want to explore the idea of of an open poly relationship and are interested in the practicalities of how that model works, I very highly recommend The Ethical Slut. It is the de-facto Poly 101 primer.
But here's the thing. Poly only works when you have a 100% absolute commitment to your partner. It's not a way to hedge your bet. You don't get to say "I will be 100% absolutely committed to you if you let me sleep with other people." You need to start from the foundation of "I am 100% committed to you. I'd like to explore the idea of having other partners with you, and look at how that could work in a way that we're both comfortable with." That's not where you are.
Also, while not a ton of poly people in my experience want to talk about this, I think it's important to acknowledge that poly is inherently high-risk behaviour. NRE is intoxicating. It takes enormous awareness and self-discipline to do the work of keeping your primary relationship emotionally and sexually primary while engaging in other relationships.
In other words, it takes a very special pair of people (incredibly well-grounded) and a very specific relationship type (incredibly committed) to make poly a healthy possibility before you even start screening happy thirds of any flavour.
But having said all of that, it's entirely possible that you are simply not suited for either long-term commitment and/or poly and are simply a serial monogamist. That's fine too; some people simply tip the risk vs reward balance later in life, or never at all. Making a clear assessment of that requires a lot of introspection and honesty and is a good and healthy journey to undertake in my experience.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:34 AM on May 15, 2010 [10 favorites]
Best answer: You might pick up David Deida's "The Way of the Superior Man". Deida is one of the foremost relationship experts with a strong interest in the sexual component. It won't answer all your specific questions, but it may give you direction in why you are feeling this way at this phase of your life.
posted by bprater at 11:41 AM on May 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by bprater at 11:41 AM on May 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you want to constantly date new women, that's your choice. You may have to sacrifice something or experience some unpleasant consequences (sacrifice long-term companionship with this particular girlfriend, whom you indicate has many desirable qualities; confront a shrinking pool of women you'd like to date who want to date you; etc.).
Another choice is to continue this relationship. That comes with its own sacrifices, among them not dating other women unless your girlfriend is interested in an open/poly relationship (and, even that would limit your potential dating pool to women who are interested in dating someone who has a girlfriend).
Any choice you make will, of necessity, exclude some other potential future. I don't think this is about growing up vs. embracing biology. One person can't say "grow up" and guarantee that his/her partner will commit long-term, and another person can't say "it's biology!" and guarantee that his/her partner will accept an open relationship or agree to terminate an existing relationship amicably. This is about making and prioritizing choices your own choices as an adult (and hopefully doing so with respect and kindness for the other person or people involved).
posted by Meg_Murry at 11:45 AM on May 15, 2010 [5 favorites]
Another choice is to continue this relationship. That comes with its own sacrifices, among them not dating other women unless your girlfriend is interested in an open/poly relationship (and, even that would limit your potential dating pool to women who are interested in dating someone who has a girlfriend).
Any choice you make will, of necessity, exclude some other potential future. I don't think this is about growing up vs. embracing biology. One person can't say "grow up" and guarantee that his/her partner will commit long-term, and another person can't say "it's biology!" and guarantee that his/her partner will accept an open relationship or agree to terminate an existing relationship amicably. This is about making and prioritizing choices your own choices as an adult (and hopefully doing so with respect and kindness for the other person or people involved).
posted by Meg_Murry at 11:45 AM on May 15, 2010 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: DarlingBri: great thoughts! And the book recommendation. I actually read The Ethical Slut, and found it amazing. I also read "Opening Up", which was also great.
Exploring your thought here...
But here's the thing. Poly only works when you have a 100% absolute commitment to your partner. It's not a way to hedge your bet. You don't get to say "I will be 100% absolutely committed to you if you let me sleep with other people." You need to start from the foundation of "I am 100% committed to you. I'd like to explore the idea of having other partners with you, and look at how that could work in a way that we're both comfortable with." That's not where you are.
You definitely understand my situation, and have pegged it. I am committed 100% to honesty, and kindness. I am not 100% committed to my partner. Well, I am at the moment and I have been for 4 years, and I *expect to be* for many more years... but if that partner breaks the pact of honesty or kindness, or wanting what's best for me and themselves... then those values will come ahead of my partner; I will leave them. In fact, I've only ever been in one situation where someone cheated on me. And as soon as I found out, that relationship was ended. And I was married! I was young, and I was fully committed to marriage and my wife. This was many years ago. But I wasn't committed *enough* to the institution of marriage or the individual to relax my requirements of honesty, kindness, and mutual "wanting what's best for each other." That person was not a good person (we all make mistakes) and I wasn't going to hitch myself to them for the long-term. So I broke it off after 2 years of marriage.
Again, your insight is spot on. Thank you!
posted by sharingideas at 11:49 AM on May 15, 2010
Exploring your thought here...
But here's the thing. Poly only works when you have a 100% absolute commitment to your partner. It's not a way to hedge your bet. You don't get to say "I will be 100% absolutely committed to you if you let me sleep with other people." You need to start from the foundation of "I am 100% committed to you. I'd like to explore the idea of having other partners with you, and look at how that could work in a way that we're both comfortable with." That's not where you are.
You definitely understand my situation, and have pegged it. I am committed 100% to honesty, and kindness. I am not 100% committed to my partner. Well, I am at the moment and I have been for 4 years, and I *expect to be* for many more years... but if that partner breaks the pact of honesty or kindness, or wanting what's best for me and themselves... then those values will come ahead of my partner; I will leave them. In fact, I've only ever been in one situation where someone cheated on me. And as soon as I found out, that relationship was ended. And I was married! I was young, and I was fully committed to marriage and my wife. This was many years ago. But I wasn't committed *enough* to the institution of marriage or the individual to relax my requirements of honesty, kindness, and mutual "wanting what's best for each other." That person was not a good person (we all make mistakes) and I wasn't going to hitch myself to them for the long-term. So I broke it off after 2 years of marriage.
Again, your insight is spot on. Thank you!
posted by sharingideas at 11:49 AM on May 15, 2010
I can provide certain aspects where I have strengths, but I am also limited by my own set of unique experiences, talents, abilities and physical appearance. Why should my girlfriend only experience the things that I have to offer? And limit herself in that way also.
Interesting, question...one which once I thought about it, made me agree with Rhizome above that yes, this does sort of seem like a sex thing. My current boyfriend and I, of course, each have our own individual set of strengths, weaknesses, talents, aversions, our own physical appearance, etc. But does this mean that I am "limited" to experiencing, knowing about, liking hating etc. everything that he does? Of course not, any more than it means he must do and think exactly as I do. Unless you and your current partner are duct-taped together, your partner's experiences, talents &c are by no means a limit that is placed on your own (or vice-versa). In my relationship, we do and experience what we want and are good at as individuals - I have never felt myself limited because, for instance, I am a literature junkie and he would rather watch nature shows on TV. A simplistic example, but hopefully one that illustrates the larger point.
Where the limitation does present itself in my own situation is, unsurprisingly, the "sex thing." This is actually the only aspect of life that immediately comes to my mind as an area where I or BF would be "limited" by each other. I don't say that as a negative, I just can't think of a better word. "Restrained," maybe? Anyway, the way it works in our world is he can do what he wants, go where he wants and talk to whom he wants, but the line is drawn at physical contact. Of course, this is not, nor should it be, the way that everyone in the whole world must conduct their relationships, but that's kind of the point that I see others making here too. if that's a limitation that you feel is unacceptable, then that is certainly not incomprehensible and there will be others out there who share your perspective. But being honest means presenting the perspective as it is - sexual limitations are an issue - and not citing the kinds of things that shouldn't be "limits" for two adults in a reasonably healthy relationship.
posted by deep thought sunstar at 11:53 AM on May 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Interesting, question...one which once I thought about it, made me agree with Rhizome above that yes, this does sort of seem like a sex thing. My current boyfriend and I, of course, each have our own individual set of strengths, weaknesses, talents, aversions, our own physical appearance, etc. But does this mean that I am "limited" to experiencing, knowing about, liking hating etc. everything that he does? Of course not, any more than it means he must do and think exactly as I do. Unless you and your current partner are duct-taped together, your partner's experiences, talents &c are by no means a limit that is placed on your own (or vice-versa). In my relationship, we do and experience what we want and are good at as individuals - I have never felt myself limited because, for instance, I am a literature junkie and he would rather watch nature shows on TV. A simplistic example, but hopefully one that illustrates the larger point.
Where the limitation does present itself in my own situation is, unsurprisingly, the "sex thing." This is actually the only aspect of life that immediately comes to my mind as an area where I or BF would be "limited" by each other. I don't say that as a negative, I just can't think of a better word. "Restrained," maybe? Anyway, the way it works in our world is he can do what he wants, go where he wants and talk to whom he wants, but the line is drawn at physical contact. Of course, this is not, nor should it be, the way that everyone in the whole world must conduct their relationships, but that's kind of the point that I see others making here too. if that's a limitation that you feel is unacceptable, then that is certainly not incomprehensible and there will be others out there who share your perspective. But being honest means presenting the perspective as it is - sexual limitations are an issue - and not citing the kinds of things that shouldn't be "limits" for two adults in a reasonably healthy relationship.
posted by deep thought sunstar at 11:53 AM on May 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
What you're feeling is perfectly normal. It is normal for young people to want to experiment sexually and emotionally, and it's a good thing in that it gives people a background of different experiences and partners so that they can better decide what's right for them. It is also very common for this need/desire for diversity to fade after a while, especially if one finds a partner that seems exactly right. But it is not automatic; some people go on craving novelty forever, and they have to work out a lifestyle that suits them without harming their succession of partners. If you are one of those people, polyamory may be for you, or you may just need to find a succession of partners who are not interested in a long-term commitment. Unfortunately, your current girlfriend does not seem to be such a person, so if you decide to commit to a life of sexual diversity you will very likely have to break up with her, which of course you will want to do as honestly and humanely as possible, which does not mean painlessly: she will be very hurt, and you will doubtless feel pain as well. But the first step is being honest with yourself. To wit:
> There are so many different aspects to people, and I always want to be continually learning and growing and experiencing new ideas; I just don't think it's realistic for me to lock down with one person romantically for the rest of my life. And, I also don't think it's realistic that I can provide everything someone else needs for the rest of their life. I can provide certain aspects where I have strengths, but I am also limited by my own set of unique experiences, talents, abilities and physical appearance. Why should my girlfriend only experience the things that I have to offer? And limit herself in that way also.
That's all bullshit rationalization. Don't be one of those people who pretends that everyone is a certain way to justify their own life choices, like a thief who claims "everyone steals, I'm just honest about it." There are many, many people who do "lock down with one person romantically" for the rest of their lives, and are (believe it or not) perfectly happy. If that doesn't work for you, OK, work out a solution for the person you are, but don't tell yourself (or anyone else) that you are the standard by which humanity should be measured. If you break up with your girlfriend, I hope (and I presume you hope) that she finds someone who suits her needs, and that they stay together happily till death do them part. And I hope (and I hope she will hope) that you are happy with your choice, and that you find the variety of lovers that will satisfy you as you continue on your path.
Of course, as that path winds toward an end, it may become harder to find new partners; that's one advantage the traditional monogamous path has—if it works right, your partner will continue loving you even as you get wrinkled, cranky, and forgetful. I mention this just because it's good to think about all the factors before making your decision. I wish you good luck and a fulfilling life.
posted by languagehat at 11:57 AM on May 15, 2010 [28 favorites]
> There are so many different aspects to people, and I always want to be continually learning and growing and experiencing new ideas; I just don't think it's realistic for me to lock down with one person romantically for the rest of my life. And, I also don't think it's realistic that I can provide everything someone else needs for the rest of their life. I can provide certain aspects where I have strengths, but I am also limited by my own set of unique experiences, talents, abilities and physical appearance. Why should my girlfriend only experience the things that I have to offer? And limit herself in that way also.
That's all bullshit rationalization. Don't be one of those people who pretends that everyone is a certain way to justify their own life choices, like a thief who claims "everyone steals, I'm just honest about it." There are many, many people who do "lock down with one person romantically" for the rest of their lives, and are (believe it or not) perfectly happy. If that doesn't work for you, OK, work out a solution for the person you are, but don't tell yourself (or anyone else) that you are the standard by which humanity should be measured. If you break up with your girlfriend, I hope (and I presume you hope) that she finds someone who suits her needs, and that they stay together happily till death do them part. And I hope (and I hope she will hope) that you are happy with your choice, and that you find the variety of lovers that will satisfy you as you continue on your path.
Of course, as that path winds toward an end, it may become harder to find new partners; that's one advantage the traditional monogamous path has—if it works right, your partner will continue loving you even as you get wrinkled, cranky, and forgetful. I mention this just because it's good to think about all the factors before making your decision. I wish you good luck and a fulfilling life.
posted by languagehat at 11:57 AM on May 15, 2010 [28 favorites]
*okay, you already said that. (what Rhizome said). We were typing at the same time...apologies.*
posted by deep thought sunstar at 11:58 AM on May 15, 2010
posted by deep thought sunstar at 11:58 AM on May 15, 2010
Best answer: There are so many different aspects to people, and I always want to be continually learning and growing and experiencing new ideas
To be frank, I think this is kind of a red herring. We don't stop learning, growing, or experiencing by staying with one person unless we choose to stop. You stop experiencing what it's like to have sex with someone new, sure, but if you keep pursuing that newness you never get to experience what it's like to have a love that ebbs and flows over 20 or 30 years. If anything, by constantly pursuing the new, you're learning and changing less. You know really well what year one and year two of a relationship feel like, but what about year 12? Basically there is no way to have a life in which we experience it ALL. But as long as you and your partner keep trying new things, meeting new people, putting yourself in new situations you won't be losing out on experience by staying with her (except for the experience of getting in other people's pants.) Anything else you can learn from other people you can learn with your clothes on. So I'm not advocating either staying or going, I'm just saying that you should stop couching your argument in terms of staying = stagnation, because that's just not true unless you let it be.
posted by MsMolly at 12:00 PM on May 15, 2010 [26 favorites]
To be frank, I think this is kind of a red herring. We don't stop learning, growing, or experiencing by staying with one person unless we choose to stop. You stop experiencing what it's like to have sex with someone new, sure, but if you keep pursuing that newness you never get to experience what it's like to have a love that ebbs and flows over 20 or 30 years. If anything, by constantly pursuing the new, you're learning and changing less. You know really well what year one and year two of a relationship feel like, but what about year 12? Basically there is no way to have a life in which we experience it ALL. But as long as you and your partner keep trying new things, meeting new people, putting yourself in new situations you won't be losing out on experience by staying with her (except for the experience of getting in other people's pants.) Anything else you can learn from other people you can learn with your clothes on. So I'm not advocating either staying or going, I'm just saying that you should stop couching your argument in terms of staying = stagnation, because that's just not true unless you let it be.
posted by MsMolly at 12:00 PM on May 15, 2010 [26 favorites]
On non-preview:
> In fact, I've only ever been in one situation where someone cheated on me. And as soon as I found out, that relationship was ended. And I was married! I was young, and I was fully committed to marriage and my wife.
Sounds like this awful experience may be influencing your attitudes. I've been there, my friend, and I know how painful it is. But just because it didn't work out once doesn't mean the whole thing's a crock, or that you don't dare commit to anyone again. Before you take any steps you can't retrace, you should think very seriously about whether the desire for novelty is your true nature or a reflection of a fear of commitment brought on by your divorce. If the latter, I'd suggest working on it now (therapy?) rather than just fleeing and realizing later you made a mistake in haste. Sounds like you've got a good thing now; why ruin it if you don't have to?
As for "I expect to be for many more years": for chrissake, don't stick with this relationship out of habit or "kindness" if you don't think it's going to be permanent. If you're pretty sure you're going to want someone else, you need to end it now, so your partner has a chance to find someone else.
posted by languagehat at 12:04 PM on May 15, 2010 [4 favorites]
> In fact, I've only ever been in one situation where someone cheated on me. And as soon as I found out, that relationship was ended. And I was married! I was young, and I was fully committed to marriage and my wife.
Sounds like this awful experience may be influencing your attitudes. I've been there, my friend, and I know how painful it is. But just because it didn't work out once doesn't mean the whole thing's a crock, or that you don't dare commit to anyone again. Before you take any steps you can't retrace, you should think very seriously about whether the desire for novelty is your true nature or a reflection of a fear of commitment brought on by your divorce. If the latter, I'd suggest working on it now (therapy?) rather than just fleeing and realizing later you made a mistake in haste. Sounds like you've got a good thing now; why ruin it if you don't have to?
As for "I expect to be for many more years": for chrissake, don't stick with this relationship out of habit or "kindness" if you don't think it's going to be permanent. If you're pretty sure you're going to want someone else, you need to end it now, so your partner has a chance to find someone else.
posted by languagehat at 12:04 PM on May 15, 2010 [4 favorites]
I am not 100% committed to my partner. Well, I am at the moment and I have been for 4 years, and I *expect to be* for many more years... but...
This is interesting. And while I really fucking hate to say this because it's said so often on MeFi it should probably be automated, I think it might be beneficial to look at how you personally define commitment and the way that plays out into your world view with a therapist.
Because, honestly, what you're describing is healthy commitment, but you don't see it that way and appear to view that as a failure. For me that's a complex and very red flag. Every well-adjusted adult human being who is in a committed relationship makes that commitment with caveats. I am 100% committed to my husband and to our relationship as we defined it but you better believe that if he ever hit me, my ass would be out the door.
It is not only OK but normal and healthy to have boundaries and deal breakers. We call people without those boundaries "doormats" and in many cases, unfortunately, "abused." Having boundaries doesn't mean that you're not committed.
Basically, I think you're having a reasonably garden variety mid-life crisis. (I know; that in and of itself is annoying.) You're about to turn 40, you're in a long term relationship settling into routine, and you're facing some internal crossroads. Given that a therapist is cheaper than a sports car, I'd get one and start looking at this stuff. From your posts, I genuinely think you'd enjoy the process. Bonus!
posted by DarlingBri at 12:12 PM on May 15, 2010 [10 favorites]
This is interesting. And while I really fucking hate to say this because it's said so often on MeFi it should probably be automated, I think it might be beneficial to look at how you personally define commitment and the way that plays out into your world view with a therapist.
Because, honestly, what you're describing is healthy commitment, but you don't see it that way and appear to view that as a failure. For me that's a complex and very red flag. Every well-adjusted adult human being who is in a committed relationship makes that commitment with caveats. I am 100% committed to my husband and to our relationship as we defined it but you better believe that if he ever hit me, my ass would be out the door.
It is not only OK but normal and healthy to have boundaries and deal breakers. We call people without those boundaries "doormats" and in many cases, unfortunately, "abused." Having boundaries doesn't mean that you're not committed.
Basically, I think you're having a reasonably garden variety mid-life crisis. (I know; that in and of itself is annoying.) You're about to turn 40, you're in a long term relationship settling into routine, and you're facing some internal crossroads. Given that a therapist is cheaper than a sports car, I'd get one and start looking at this stuff. From your posts, I genuinely think you'd enjoy the process. Bonus!
posted by DarlingBri at 12:12 PM on May 15, 2010 [10 favorites]
Of course, as that path winds toward an end, it may become harder to find new partners; that's one advantage the traditional monogamous path has—if it works right, your partner will continue loving you even as you get wrinkled, cranky, and forgetful. I mention this just because it's good to think about all the factors before making your decision.
I just want to underscore that you really need to consider this part of the pros/cons equation. The dating landscape at 40 (especially for men) may still seem limitlessly varied and pleasant, like some sort of fabulous buffet. However, I've known a number of men who feel the same way you do now, but don't handle it so gracefully once 40 starts to turn into 50 or even 60 and they aren't able to readily attract women in their 20s and 30s anymore, but aren't interested in women their own age. Make sure you have a realistic picture of what an open, uncommitted lifestyle might look like over a lifespan, given the heavy odds this isn't George Clooney posting under your user name.
posted by availablelight at 12:14 PM on May 15, 2010 [9 favorites]
I just want to underscore that you really need to consider this part of the pros/cons equation. The dating landscape at 40 (especially for men) may still seem limitlessly varied and pleasant, like some sort of fabulous buffet. However, I've known a number of men who feel the same way you do now, but don't handle it so gracefully once 40 starts to turn into 50 or even 60 and they aren't able to readily attract women in their 20s and 30s anymore, but aren't interested in women their own age. Make sure you have a realistic picture of what an open, uncommitted lifestyle might look like over a lifespan, given the heavy odds this isn't George Clooney posting under your user name.
posted by availablelight at 12:14 PM on May 15, 2010 [9 favorites]
Firstly, I think you owe it to your girlfriend to leave her ASAP - it seems pretty certain that you are going to leave her either sooner or later, and she deserves as much chance to find a man she can be with forever as possible, and it gets much harder as people get older. It is simply not fair to keep misleading her that you are the one she can rely on forever.
Secondly, I think you are using fancy arguments because you are either not with the right person (she is sweet, but you sound so blah about her) or not ready to settle down or both. Go out and do what you need to do before settling down, or find someone you want to be with until the universe goes dark.
Thirdly, I have friends who are polyamorous and it works great for them, but I don't think it is what you expect. I think what you looking for is more like swinging or serial dating or possibly some sort of harem fantasy.
Lastly - often people who keep looking for something in others are often lacking something in themselves and there is no substitute for personal growth. <--- My way of saying "Bullshit!"
posted by meepmeow at 12:34 PM on May 15, 2010 [4 favorites]
Secondly, I think you are using fancy arguments because you are either not with the right person (she is sweet, but you sound so blah about her) or not ready to settle down or both. Go out and do what you need to do before settling down, or find someone you want to be with until the universe goes dark.
Thirdly, I have friends who are polyamorous and it works great for them, but I don't think it is what you expect. I think what you looking for is more like swinging or serial dating or possibly some sort of harem fantasy.
Lastly - often people who keep looking for something in others are often lacking something in themselves and there is no substitute for personal growth. <--- My way of saying "Bullshit!"
posted by meepmeow at 12:34 PM on May 15, 2010 [4 favorites]
There's nothing wrong with any of it.
When it comes to our education and careers, we always want to excel, pursue new opportunities, learn more, and not stagnate. Why should life and relationships be any different, as long as everybody is learning together, being open and honest, and treating each other with the utmost care and respect.
And there's nothing wrong with you. The divorce rate would plummet if everyone had this outlook.
posted by L'OM at 12:39 PM on May 15, 2010
When it comes to our education and careers, we always want to excel, pursue new opportunities, learn more, and not stagnate. Why should life and relationships be any different, as long as everybody is learning together, being open and honest, and treating each other with the utmost care and respect.
And there's nothing wrong with you. The divorce rate would plummet if everyone had this outlook.
posted by L'OM at 12:39 PM on May 15, 2010
So, is this just a "guy thing"?
It is definitely not just a guy thing, but it's not a universal thing. Some people like the idea of having one partner forever, who will be there "in sickness and in health", and all that.
Some people think getting over the idea of multiple partners is a part of maturity and others think it's an unnecessary expectation of the normative culture that you can avoid by finding like minded people. You just have to be aware there are pros and cons to not settling down with one person.
When it comes to our education and careers, we always want to excel, pursue new opportunities, learn more, and not stagnate. Why should life and relationships be any different?
Many people commit to one career for life, and think that by doing so they can go further in that field than would be possible if they tried to excel in many different professions. A relationship should not become static at a certain point. There is always room to learn more and go deeper, and you are not starting from scratch, but from an already established point of real knowledge.
Of course, there's nothing wrong with being interested in interdisciplinary careers and trying to excel in multiple fields - it's just not for everyone. Polyamory is appealing but not always easy, and it takes a lot of work to have fulfilling relationships with multiple people, just as it takes a lot of work to be successful in multiple careers...
posted by mdn at 12:47 PM on May 15, 2010
It is definitely not just a guy thing, but it's not a universal thing. Some people like the idea of having one partner forever, who will be there "in sickness and in health", and all that.
Some people think getting over the idea of multiple partners is a part of maturity and others think it's an unnecessary expectation of the normative culture that you can avoid by finding like minded people. You just have to be aware there are pros and cons to not settling down with one person.
When it comes to our education and careers, we always want to excel, pursue new opportunities, learn more, and not stagnate. Why should life and relationships be any different?
Many people commit to one career for life, and think that by doing so they can go further in that field than would be possible if they tried to excel in many different professions. A relationship should not become static at a certain point. There is always room to learn more and go deeper, and you are not starting from scratch, but from an already established point of real knowledge.
Of course, there's nothing wrong with being interested in interdisciplinary careers and trying to excel in multiple fields - it's just not for everyone. Polyamory is appealing but not always easy, and it takes a lot of work to have fulfilling relationships with multiple people, just as it takes a lot of work to be successful in multiple careers...
posted by mdn at 12:47 PM on May 15, 2010
Some people are tourists by nature. Seems less mature to those of us who aren't, but who are we to judge?
If there's anything wrong with your lifestyle choice, it is whether you are hurting people along the way. And whether you are happy with it or not.
posted by gjc at 12:54 PM on May 15, 2010
If there's anything wrong with your lifestyle choice, it is whether you are hurting people along the way. And whether you are happy with it or not.
posted by gjc at 12:54 PM on May 15, 2010
I'm more 'looking into these ideas now' so that I don't live a limited/hidden/not-true-to-myself life.
I've been thinking about this. Whatever choices you make about your relationship(s), I think it's important to acknowledge that everyone who chooses a monogamous, long-term commitment does so in the context of being surrounded by other people and still feeling attracted to or excited by other possibilities. There is no special group of people who, once committed to a single partner, cease to feel at least a little bit of pull toward outside temptations. They're actively choosing not to pursue those other possibilities, but they are aware of them.
posted by Meg_Murry at 12:58 PM on May 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
I've been thinking about this. Whatever choices you make about your relationship(s), I think it's important to acknowledge that everyone who chooses a monogamous, long-term commitment does so in the context of being surrounded by other people and still feeling attracted to or excited by other possibilities. There is no special group of people who, once committed to a single partner, cease to feel at least a little bit of pull toward outside temptations. They're actively choosing not to pursue those other possibilities, but they are aware of them.
posted by Meg_Murry at 12:58 PM on May 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Please tell your girlfriend you are feeling this way. She needs to know how ambivalent you are about your future together so she can make her own decision.
posted by BusyBusyBusy at 1:20 PM on May 15, 2010 [14 favorites]
posted by BusyBusyBusy at 1:20 PM on May 15, 2010 [14 favorites]
There are so many different aspects to people, and I always want to be continually learning and growing and experiencing new ideas... Why should my girlfriend only experience the things that I have to offer? And limit herself in that way also.
I think this desire is a consequence not of biology, but a particular set of modern cultural norms where novelty becomes a fetish, and the big tragedy in life is missing out on something, which inevitably ends up promoting dissatisfaction and boredom when any one particular situation has been exhausted. As MsMolly said, what if this pursuit of endless thrills is itself a kind of limitation?
Maybe there's some good in having a permanent commitment in your life, which can't be detected any more because it seems just boring and useless. The notion of ritual is an interesting one to consider -- rituals have been an important part of most cultures and most people's lives historically, yet for us today, they're basically incomprehensible. Doing something the same way over and over gain simply makes no sense, the word "routine" often has negative connotations, etc. This might point to a failure in our contemporary concept of the good life which blinds us to certain kinds of valuable experiences.
You can't rediscover them by telling yourself that commitment doesn't necessarily entail a loss of novelty and excitement of some kind -- of course it does. Instead, the only real way of appreciating stability and permanence is by experiencing the lack of novelty as enjoyable in itself. Like when married people feel glad they don't have to deal with the dating scene any more.
Another thing I wonder about is whether the endless search for novelty might be a search for this lost form of enjoyment, searching for a way to stop searching.
posted by AlsoMike at 1:33 PM on May 15, 2010 [4 favorites]
I think this desire is a consequence not of biology, but a particular set of modern cultural norms where novelty becomes a fetish, and the big tragedy in life is missing out on something, which inevitably ends up promoting dissatisfaction and boredom when any one particular situation has been exhausted. As MsMolly said, what if this pursuit of endless thrills is itself a kind of limitation?
Maybe there's some good in having a permanent commitment in your life, which can't be detected any more because it seems just boring and useless. The notion of ritual is an interesting one to consider -- rituals have been an important part of most cultures and most people's lives historically, yet for us today, they're basically incomprehensible. Doing something the same way over and over gain simply makes no sense, the word "routine" often has negative connotations, etc. This might point to a failure in our contemporary concept of the good life which blinds us to certain kinds of valuable experiences.
You can't rediscover them by telling yourself that commitment doesn't necessarily entail a loss of novelty and excitement of some kind -- of course it does. Instead, the only real way of appreciating stability and permanence is by experiencing the lack of novelty as enjoyable in itself. Like when married people feel glad they don't have to deal with the dating scene any more.
Another thing I wonder about is whether the endless search for novelty might be a search for this lost form of enjoyment, searching for a way to stop searching.
posted by AlsoMike at 1:33 PM on May 15, 2010 [4 favorites]
"But now my philosophy on dating/marriage/etc is changing. I've read stuff about polyamory, and I'm very intrigued."
Oh brother...
So, you've heard about being in a relationship and having permission to get laid on the side, and you're thinking "SWEET! That sounds awesome! I must be poly!"
Dude, you're not. You're just a guy who has eyes and wants his hands and penis to follow them.
I wish your girlfriend the best of luck with her next relationship.
posted by 2oh1 at 1:35 PM on May 15, 2010 [5 favorites]
Oh brother...
So, you've heard about being in a relationship and having permission to get laid on the side, and you're thinking "SWEET! That sounds awesome! I must be poly!"
Dude, you're not. You're just a guy who has eyes and wants his hands and penis to follow them.
I wish your girlfriend the best of luck with her next relationship.
posted by 2oh1 at 1:35 PM on May 15, 2010 [5 favorites]
We live in such a disposable society and we're trained from a very early age to be "shoppers." We're used to getting what we want and we've become accustomed to instant gratification rather than putting in the time and effort it takes to build up something meaningful. It's no wonder many people feel the need to take the same approach to relationships.
I suspect you'll decide you do want to settle down someday, when you're a bit older and more tired and the cost/benefit ratio to serial monogamy skews more towards settling down permanently (i.e. when you can no longer attract young, beautiful women and come across as a creepy old weirdo when you try).
Until then, just please be honest and up-front about your intentions to the women you're with. Your current girlfriend needs to know how you're feeling. It's only fair for you to be honest with her.
posted by hazyjane at 1:46 PM on May 15, 2010 [5 favorites]
I suspect you'll decide you do want to settle down someday, when you're a bit older and more tired and the cost/benefit ratio to serial monogamy skews more towards settling down permanently (i.e. when you can no longer attract young, beautiful women and come across as a creepy old weirdo when you try).
Until then, just please be honest and up-front about your intentions to the women you're with. Your current girlfriend needs to know how you're feeling. It's only fair for you to be honest with her.
posted by hazyjane at 1:46 PM on May 15, 2010 [5 favorites]
that would limit your potential dating pool to women who are interested in dating someone who has a girlfriend
This is a really good point I think should be underscored. Your girlfriend wants a committed relationship, but you should also consider that so are most of the women in your potential dating pool. Especially at your age. If you want to stay with your girlfriend and also pursue relationships with other women, realize that there are not a lot of women who are going to be looking for the same thing and adjust your expectations accordingly.
You may want to spend some time thinking about whether it's cold feet, or if there is something more concrete bothering you? Your comments about infidelity, dishonesty etc. being qualifiers to commitment make me think you're worried about whether what you have with your girlfriend will last. That's perfectly rational and I think everyone has those worries at some point. As far as I'm aware, though, the only way to deal with that is to find a person who you can be as confident as possible will not do those things, reciprocate their love and respect, and hold your breath and hope for the best. The more you love, the more you risk losing - that's scary but there's really no way around it.
It's also okay if you're just getting to a point where you're realizing the passion has gone from your relationship. That happens. Sometimes it can be fixed, sometimes the relationship has just run its course.
It sounds to me like you just need to do a little more soul-searching and try to really nail down what is bugging you and why. It is likely that once you've identified the problem, what to do about it will be a lot more clear.
posted by AV at 2:32 PM on May 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
This is a really good point I think should be underscored. Your girlfriend wants a committed relationship, but you should also consider that so are most of the women in your potential dating pool. Especially at your age. If you want to stay with your girlfriend and also pursue relationships with other women, realize that there are not a lot of women who are going to be looking for the same thing and adjust your expectations accordingly.
You may want to spend some time thinking about whether it's cold feet, or if there is something more concrete bothering you? Your comments about infidelity, dishonesty etc. being qualifiers to commitment make me think you're worried about whether what you have with your girlfriend will last. That's perfectly rational and I think everyone has those worries at some point. As far as I'm aware, though, the only way to deal with that is to find a person who you can be as confident as possible will not do those things, reciprocate their love and respect, and hold your breath and hope for the best. The more you love, the more you risk losing - that's scary but there's really no way around it.
It's also okay if you're just getting to a point where you're realizing the passion has gone from your relationship. That happens. Sometimes it can be fixed, sometimes the relationship has just run its course.
It sounds to me like you just need to do a little more soul-searching and try to really nail down what is bugging you and why. It is likely that once you've identified the problem, what to do about it will be a lot more clear.
posted by AV at 2:32 PM on May 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
I've read stuff about polyamory, and I'm very intrigued. I mostly like the idea of people dealing with their insecurities and wanting their partner to enjoy all that life has to offer.
You know that would go for you too, right? Not just the woman?
You definitely have some exploring to do if you really want to know what you want, why you want it, and how much of this you can change. And maybe it is a guy thing, in that the men's sexual and emotional needs are typically underexplored and rationalized more often than the mysterious female counterpart.
Doing this kind of work on your own is almost impossible, and your honesty policy would make you a great candidate for therapy. Don't think of therapy as being for broken people who need to be fixed. Therapy is for people who need a more impartial view of themselves in order to become what they want to become.
posted by Vinegaroon at 2:47 PM on May 15, 2010
You know that would go for you too, right? Not just the woman?
You definitely have some exploring to do if you really want to know what you want, why you want it, and how much of this you can change. And maybe it is a guy thing, in that the men's sexual and emotional needs are typically underexplored and rationalized more often than the mysterious female counterpart.
Doing this kind of work on your own is almost impossible, and your honesty policy would make you a great candidate for therapy. Don't think of therapy as being for broken people who need to be fixed. Therapy is for people who need a more impartial view of themselves in order to become what they want to become.
posted by Vinegaroon at 2:47 PM on May 15, 2010
Response by poster: I'm so jazzed by all these comments. I really want to take each one, reflect, and comment on them (which I will) because YOU all took the time to write and help me, I want to summarize the main themes/points. But for now, since I only have a few minutes in between activities... I want to address 2 quick things:
1. book recommendation
bprater: I went to Amazon and looked up "The Way of the Superior Man" and the comments in the reviews actually describe some of my background spot-on. Father was very emotionally distant (military guy), mother is super religious. I'm not. Anyway, I've already run to the bookstore and bought the book (have it in my hands right now). I also bought his other book, "Blue Truth" just in case that's good too.
2. concern for my GF
Everyone who has posted about their concern for my GF and that I "need to tell her": I love your concern/love for another human being. Thank you for that! Rest assured, she knows all about these thoughts/questions of mine. In fact, we've talked about it quite a bit. She has even read some of the books that are mentioned here. I'm not keeping this inquiry/search a secret, but I also don't want to bombard her every day with these thoughts. It would be very trying/hard to hear this crap every day. It's just like if you are really passionate about your job and you're working on a project that you love. Do you come home every day and bore your wife/GF to tears talking about the inner workings of every cool line of code you wrote, or model you built, or argument with your co-workers? You probably do *some* of that because we like to share and it's good and healthy in our relationships. But you only want to go so far. This whole thread is MY intellectual pursuit, not hers. It's MY interest, not hers. So, I have to respect that. If she wanted to talk about this as much as I do... that'd be great. But she doesn't. She treats it like a lot of my other ideas and gives me the room/freedom to explore the ideas "in my head". She of course would be hurt if I acted upon any of this stuff. And I'm not inclined to do that anyway. And I'm not suppressing these feelings; I'm making deliberate decisions because I am truly happy and in love. Even at *almost 40* there are still sooo many years ahead, that I'd rather get ahead of these thoughts/ideas/philosophy now rather than shunt them / ignore them / hide them. It's just like I wouldn't go out and start a business without thinking it through. I'd consider the longterm business model, not the short-term gain. Similarly, I want to consider the longterm model here with respect to my own internal soul searching and introspection.
Keep the comments coming! I really appreciate it and will def respond to most of the more salient points raised (but not now because I don't have time).
posted by sharingideas at 3:07 PM on May 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
1. book recommendation
bprater: I went to Amazon and looked up "The Way of the Superior Man" and the comments in the reviews actually describe some of my background spot-on. Father was very emotionally distant (military guy), mother is super religious. I'm not. Anyway, I've already run to the bookstore and bought the book (have it in my hands right now). I also bought his other book, "Blue Truth" just in case that's good too.
2. concern for my GF
Everyone who has posted about their concern for my GF and that I "need to tell her": I love your concern/love for another human being. Thank you for that! Rest assured, she knows all about these thoughts/questions of mine. In fact, we've talked about it quite a bit. She has even read some of the books that are mentioned here. I'm not keeping this inquiry/search a secret, but I also don't want to bombard her every day with these thoughts. It would be very trying/hard to hear this crap every day. It's just like if you are really passionate about your job and you're working on a project that you love. Do you come home every day and bore your wife/GF to tears talking about the inner workings of every cool line of code you wrote, or model you built, or argument with your co-workers? You probably do *some* of that because we like to share and it's good and healthy in our relationships. But you only want to go so far. This whole thread is MY intellectual pursuit, not hers. It's MY interest, not hers. So, I have to respect that. If she wanted to talk about this as much as I do... that'd be great. But she doesn't. She treats it like a lot of my other ideas and gives me the room/freedom to explore the ideas "in my head". She of course would be hurt if I acted upon any of this stuff. And I'm not inclined to do that anyway. And I'm not suppressing these feelings; I'm making deliberate decisions because I am truly happy and in love. Even at *almost 40* there are still sooo many years ahead, that I'd rather get ahead of these thoughts/ideas/philosophy now rather than shunt them / ignore them / hide them. It's just like I wouldn't go out and start a business without thinking it through. I'd consider the longterm business model, not the short-term gain. Similarly, I want to consider the longterm model here with respect to my own internal soul searching and introspection.
Keep the comments coming! I really appreciate it and will def respond to most of the more salient points raised (but not now because I don't have time).
posted by sharingideas at 3:07 PM on May 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
> She of course would be hurt if I acted upon any of this stuff. And I'm not inclined to do that anyway.
That's not what your original question sounds like. You started off sounding like "Hey, I love my girlfriend but I've just gotta try different women!" Now you're sounding like it's all just a philosophical exploration "in your head" that will not impact your actual life. If the latter is the case, explore all you like, fantasize, whatever, it's all good. But I repeat, if (as it originally seemed) you think you're likely to break up with your girlfriend eventually, you need to do it ASAP. Telling yourself, her, and us how much you love her is irrelevant; if she's going to be out the door, it needs to happen sooner rather than later. So think hard about that.
posted by languagehat at 4:38 PM on May 15, 2010
That's not what your original question sounds like. You started off sounding like "Hey, I love my girlfriend but I've just gotta try different women!" Now you're sounding like it's all just a philosophical exploration "in your head" that will not impact your actual life. If the latter is the case, explore all you like, fantasize, whatever, it's all good. But I repeat, if (as it originally seemed) you think you're likely to break up with your girlfriend eventually, you need to do it ASAP. Telling yourself, her, and us how much you love her is irrelevant; if she's going to be out the door, it needs to happen sooner rather than later. So think hard about that.
posted by languagehat at 4:38 PM on May 15, 2010
You know... one thing I've learned in life. When it comes to relationships, I ask a question; what's my role? Romantically or platonically, I need to have security in understanding what emotions I can bring forth into the relationship. Insecurity breeds anxiety and depression, no matter how well grounded you are. So, if my committed boyfriend of 4 years told me about opening our boundaries outside the relationship and even insinuated that I don't want him to enjoy all life has to offer. He's out. Because as a human being with feelings, I need security in the people I'm involved with. This wishy-washy... well just deal with your insecurities, 'cause I prefer to give my energies to other people, is not good for any relationship. Yea, you can bring up all these ideas to her. She may be ok with it but understand that bringing others into your relationship involves someone's feelings being hurt, even if they don't say shit.
posted by InterestedInKnowing at 4:43 PM on May 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by InterestedInKnowing at 4:43 PM on May 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
Best answer: You sound like a pensive, introspective, philosophically inclined person who loves to read, think, explore, and ponder ideas from various angles. As someone who shares those inclinations - and also as someone who spent many years in poly relationships, but is no longer interested in any kind of non-monogamy whatsoever - I want to offer you a few cautionary words based on hard-won experience.
Polyamory, as a philosophy of relationships, appealed greatly to me when I first read about it in the early 1990s (and I am female; no, it isn't a "guy thing"). It just made sense, in some fundamental way, to the person I was at the time. And I was frighteningly good at coming up with sophisticated rationalizations for it.
But I cannot overemphasize enough that polyamory in theory and polyamory in practice are two very different animals. Oh, I knew that on an intellectual level, but I must have thought it didn't apply to me and my unique special-snowflake situation, or some such bullshit. I didn't set out to damage my relationship with my (former) beloved, but despite my scrupulous honesty, open communication, and the best of intentions, that is exactly what happened. Even the fondest memories of my poly years are tinged with a deep sense of remorse for the damage I unintentionally did to my relationship with someone I loved dearly. I am now divorced and have been single for years, ever since my ex left me for someone who wanted monogamy.
But back to your philosophy of relationships. You say that you don't think it's realistic that you can provide everything someone else needs for the rest of their life (or vice versa), which is a nice-sounding rationalization...but my sincere question for you to explore is: Where did you get the idea that good relationships result from having all one's needs met? What if part of having a satisfying relationship involves making peace with not having some of one's needs met - and furthermore, how many of these "needs" we're talking about are not true needs, but only desires? I'm not saying any of this to denigrate your desires in any way; I only want to encourage you to do some serious critical thinking.
Think very carefully about whether it is worth it to risk your relationship for the sake of the novelty, growth, and learning you crave. All of those things can be had in a good monogamous relationship, and as mentioned upthread, the desire for novelty and new sexual experiences can be a limitation in and of itself.
I recommend that you read Survivors of an Open Marriage: A Cautionary Tale. Engage in an extended thought experiment in the philosophy of relationships. Ponder these ideas all you want, from all angles imaginable. If, after all that, you still want to go ahead with polyamory in practice - especially when you're already in a relationship with someone who wants monogamy - you've got a challenging road ahead of you. It can be done, but it isn't easy, and it will cost you, perhaps even in ways you never imagined.
Best of luck.
posted by velvet winter at 6:47 PM on May 15, 2010 [9 favorites]
Polyamory, as a philosophy of relationships, appealed greatly to me when I first read about it in the early 1990s (and I am female; no, it isn't a "guy thing"). It just made sense, in some fundamental way, to the person I was at the time. And I was frighteningly good at coming up with sophisticated rationalizations for it.
But I cannot overemphasize enough that polyamory in theory and polyamory in practice are two very different animals. Oh, I knew that on an intellectual level, but I must have thought it didn't apply to me and my unique special-snowflake situation, or some such bullshit. I didn't set out to damage my relationship with my (former) beloved, but despite my scrupulous honesty, open communication, and the best of intentions, that is exactly what happened. Even the fondest memories of my poly years are tinged with a deep sense of remorse for the damage I unintentionally did to my relationship with someone I loved dearly. I am now divorced and have been single for years, ever since my ex left me for someone who wanted monogamy.
But back to your philosophy of relationships. You say that you don't think it's realistic that you can provide everything someone else needs for the rest of their life (or vice versa), which is a nice-sounding rationalization...but my sincere question for you to explore is: Where did you get the idea that good relationships result from having all one's needs met? What if part of having a satisfying relationship involves making peace with not having some of one's needs met - and furthermore, how many of these "needs" we're talking about are not true needs, but only desires? I'm not saying any of this to denigrate your desires in any way; I only want to encourage you to do some serious critical thinking.
Think very carefully about whether it is worth it to risk your relationship for the sake of the novelty, growth, and learning you crave. All of those things can be had in a good monogamous relationship, and as mentioned upthread, the desire for novelty and new sexual experiences can be a limitation in and of itself.
I recommend that you read Survivors of an Open Marriage: A Cautionary Tale. Engage in an extended thought experiment in the philosophy of relationships. Ponder these ideas all you want, from all angles imaginable. If, after all that, you still want to go ahead with polyamory in practice - especially when you're already in a relationship with someone who wants monogamy - you've got a challenging road ahead of you. It can be done, but it isn't easy, and it will cost you, perhaps even in ways you never imagined.
Best of luck.
posted by velvet winter at 6:47 PM on May 15, 2010 [9 favorites]
Best answer: Though you are the polar opposite of me (I'm Mr. Monogamy), I see nothing wrong (as in ethically wrong) with you having as many partners as you want, as-long-as you're honest with everybody and you practice extremely safe sex.
(Being honest with everyone includes early-on in the relationship. Girls who decide to date you should know, from the outset, that you don't want a long-term thing. I don't mean you need to tell them on the first date. But if it looks like it's getting serious, you owe it to them to say, "I like you, but this will probably last a couple of years at most.")
Here are two issues I see for you. If they don't matter to you, then great. But you should think really hard about them.
1) You grow MORE in a long-term relationship than in a lot of short-term ones. The stuff you want to learn from knowing many people, you can learn from friends. But the way you grow in long-term relationships is by weathering storms. Example: what if your partner gets cancer and that involves years of helping her as she undergoes chemo. That stuff is really hard. But when you come through it, you REALLY will have grown.
That was an extreme example. You also grow by losing the attraction and then working with your partner to get it back (trying out new ideas in the bedroom, etc.) Some couples grow by weathering a huge financial problem. I've met couples who have grown incredibly close by weathering infidelity. One of the partners makes "a mistake" and rather than splitting up, they get through it.
If you don't weather any of these storms, you are like a guy who sets out to cross the Atlantic in a raft, gets a mile out, and then says "Fuck it," and comes back to shore. And instead of ever really crossing the ocean, you just take your raft to a bunch of small lakes. Who has undergone more personal growth? The lake guy or the guy who has crossed the ocean?
Imagine the bond you will have with your girlfriend if you stay with her for 30 years. Imagine how well you will know her, inside and out. You will know how she deals with family-members dieing, with losing a job, with getting older, with having kids or being childless, etc. That sort of KNOWING is only possible after years and years and years. I have been married for 15, and I'm still learning about my wife. (Why am I still learning? Because (a) she's complex and (b) she's always changing.)
2) Sorry to be graphic, but I got really sick when my wife and I were in Mexico. Montezuma's Revenge. Look it up if you want the gory details. Let's just say there are bodily fluids coming out of both ends simultaneously. My wife sat with me and took care of me the whole time.
As you get older, you will get sick more and more often. One day, you will be dieing. If you're like most people, this won't be a quick, clean process. It may drag on for years. Do you want to do it alone?
This may sound really utilitarian. "Oh, so you just want a nursemaid!" No, it's all about love. I don't just want someone there when I'm sick. I want to know, when I'm well, that someone cares about me enough to be there for me when I'm sick. And I want to know that I care that much about someone else.
Holding someone while they are vomiting or bleeding is not romantic. But it goes beyond romance. It can mean deep, deep love.
posted by grumblebee at 6:38 AM on May 16, 2010 [17 favorites]
(Being honest with everyone includes early-on in the relationship. Girls who decide to date you should know, from the outset, that you don't want a long-term thing. I don't mean you need to tell them on the first date. But if it looks like it's getting serious, you owe it to them to say, "I like you, but this will probably last a couple of years at most.")
Here are two issues I see for you. If they don't matter to you, then great. But you should think really hard about them.
1) You grow MORE in a long-term relationship than in a lot of short-term ones. The stuff you want to learn from knowing many people, you can learn from friends. But the way you grow in long-term relationships is by weathering storms. Example: what if your partner gets cancer and that involves years of helping her as she undergoes chemo. That stuff is really hard. But when you come through it, you REALLY will have grown.
That was an extreme example. You also grow by losing the attraction and then working with your partner to get it back (trying out new ideas in the bedroom, etc.) Some couples grow by weathering a huge financial problem. I've met couples who have grown incredibly close by weathering infidelity. One of the partners makes "a mistake" and rather than splitting up, they get through it.
If you don't weather any of these storms, you are like a guy who sets out to cross the Atlantic in a raft, gets a mile out, and then says "Fuck it," and comes back to shore. And instead of ever really crossing the ocean, you just take your raft to a bunch of small lakes. Who has undergone more personal growth? The lake guy or the guy who has crossed the ocean?
Imagine the bond you will have with your girlfriend if you stay with her for 30 years. Imagine how well you will know her, inside and out. You will know how she deals with family-members dieing, with losing a job, with getting older, with having kids or being childless, etc. That sort of KNOWING is only possible after years and years and years. I have been married for 15, and I'm still learning about my wife. (Why am I still learning? Because (a) she's complex and (b) she's always changing.)
2) Sorry to be graphic, but I got really sick when my wife and I were in Mexico. Montezuma's Revenge. Look it up if you want the gory details. Let's just say there are bodily fluids coming out of both ends simultaneously. My wife sat with me and took care of me the whole time.
As you get older, you will get sick more and more often. One day, you will be dieing. If you're like most people, this won't be a quick, clean process. It may drag on for years. Do you want to do it alone?
This may sound really utilitarian. "Oh, so you just want a nursemaid!" No, it's all about love. I don't just want someone there when I'm sick. I want to know, when I'm well, that someone cares about me enough to be there for me when I'm sick. And I want to know that I care that much about someone else.
Holding someone while they are vomiting or bleeding is not romantic. But it goes beyond romance. It can mean deep, deep love.
posted by grumblebee at 6:38 AM on May 16, 2010 [17 favorites]
What jumps out at me is that, it appears from your post that your relationship history is serial monogamy. Someone who was built to date a variety of women would most likely have spent more time in non-exclusive relationships. Based on that, I’m agreeing with everyone who sees this as a midlife or other crisis rather. Glad your GF knows you have some stuff to work through. Good luck with it.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 7:28 AM on May 16, 2010
posted by Lesser Shrew at 7:28 AM on May 16, 2010
Response by poster: I must say that this MeFi community is amazing! I could just imagine the kind of answers I'd get if I posted on Yahoo Answers or something. I can just see it now, everyone calling me a douchebag, or other profanities, and tons of nonsense. I appreciate everyone's time and comments on this stuff.
Here is a list of what I've gleaned so far from all of your posts...
*1. missing out on the experience of a truly long relationship
ms_molly is the first to put this argument forward. I think it's a great argument.
If I continue to flee each situation at year4, then I'll never experience/learn what it's like to be with someone for years5 through X. This has me thinking...
So let's spice up the argument a bit and see where we can go with it. The pursuit of "learning" is a very generic statement for me to make in the original post. It has a morale high ground that makes the argument look respectful, right. That's the problem with it. It's not very specific. There's lots of things we *can* learn every day, and we choose not to. Why? Because we don't find them interesting or helpful to us. I *could* read books on any number of subjects every day, or I could pursue a degree in horticulture. But I don't. Why? because I'm not interested in it. At this moment. Maybe someday I will be. So, I really need to ask myself whether I'm interested to know what it's like to be with someone for 10, 15, 20+ years. Maybe.
So, I think it's helpful to consider a parallel case. When do we go into something to "learn it" with the hope/belief that it will pay off and be interesting to us? Education is a good example. Many of us pursued our undergrad (or grad) degrees (or our skill/trade) for one reason or another, but it probably included one or both of these components: 1.) I was really really super interested in the material and the experience of what I studied, or 2.) I thought it would bring me mad cash. For reason #1, we already have the interest/excitement to pursue the learning. We started out with it. We didn't go into it "hoping we'd be interested in it". For reason #2, we are using a proxy of past people's experiences to convince us that this is what we should do... because it will pay off. ms_molly is getting me to thinking about my own experience growing up. My parents got divorced, my grandparents had miserable marriages, and I don't have any example of how the "being with someone for 10, 15, 20+ years" pays off. So, that's probably my problem. We're getting somewhere! Reason #1 and Reason #2 are falling flat for me. Not only I don't have an immediate interest, but I also don't see any previous examples of the benefit (people that have gone before and shown me the path). And, I'm not the kind of person that blindly believes in some mystical pot of gold at the end of a rainbow when it means "less good" today. I'm not religious. I don't believe in suffering on earth so that I can store up my "treasures in heaven".
This argument is still causing me the most thought. Thank you ms_molly!
* 2. going deep vs broad
These arguments are compelling as well. People go deep in certain industries, while others hop around from job to job or industry to industry. Neither is wrong. It just depends on what you want or are good at. These arguments make sense to me and have me thinking. There are definitely levels of trust and open communication that I've reached with my GF, that I've never reached with anyone else. I love that!
* 3. as we get older, the potential pool of people that will love us fades... so ACT NOW!!
This argument is very rational. I understand it. As I get old and my physical body starts to fade (and my mind), the pool of young, sharp, attractive women will fade too. So, I'd better ensure myself a companion now that I can ride into old age with. But, let's break this down a bit.
1.) it's fear-based.
Lock in NOW so that you have a guaranteed friend for later. On that, I'd rather treat people with the respect and love every day that they deserve. I'm with my GF today because I love being with her today (and tomorrow). If that love/interest started to wane but then I thought "Oh shit! I'm getting old. Better lock her in now so that I'm not alone when I'm 80 years old", I just think that's kinda lame.
2.) it isn't logically consistent
Some of the people that cited this reason also include phrases like "the pool of young, attractive women won't be there when you're old." So, if we just look at the argument, it's basically saying that the goal is to have a young/attractive woman when you're old (this btw is not part of my original post). Well, the "lock in now for old age" argument ALSO doesn't deliver on that promise. It delivers 2 old people that are together when they're old. If I want to be with an old person when I'm old, well... won't I just have to look around me at my group of friends at that time? The person I "lock in now" will be just as old as me.
* 4. caveman argument
Several people have commented on the "caveman argument" as being bullshit. And at least one person commented on how the fact that something is 'natural' doesn't necessarily make it good. This is fair. The reason I cite the biological argument is because "what is natural" does have merit. I don't want to be constantly out of sorts with my natural desires and wiring. Rather than fight that, I'd rather know it and build my life in harmony with my natural desires, not at odds with them. So long as those natural desires are not dangerous to others or myself. So, the valid refute to this argument would not be "who cares what is natural", it would be "there is other evidence that suggests this is NOT natural."
* 5. this is mid-life crisis
Yes, it probably is. And the best way to get through it is to continue going "through it", by asking, introspecting, reading. "Acting" will not be hasty.
posted by sharingideas at 9:38 AM on May 16, 2010
Here is a list of what I've gleaned so far from all of your posts...
*1. missing out on the experience of a truly long relationship
ms_molly is the first to put this argument forward. I think it's a great argument.
If I continue to flee each situation at year4, then I'll never experience/learn what it's like to be with someone for years5 through X. This has me thinking...
So let's spice up the argument a bit and see where we can go with it. The pursuit of "learning" is a very generic statement for me to make in the original post. It has a morale high ground that makes the argument look respectful, right. That's the problem with it. It's not very specific. There's lots of things we *can* learn every day, and we choose not to. Why? Because we don't find them interesting or helpful to us. I *could* read books on any number of subjects every day, or I could pursue a degree in horticulture. But I don't. Why? because I'm not interested in it. At this moment. Maybe someday I will be. So, I really need to ask myself whether I'm interested to know what it's like to be with someone for 10, 15, 20+ years. Maybe.
So, I think it's helpful to consider a parallel case. When do we go into something to "learn it" with the hope/belief that it will pay off and be interesting to us? Education is a good example. Many of us pursued our undergrad (or grad) degrees (or our skill/trade) for one reason or another, but it probably included one or both of these components: 1.) I was really really super interested in the material and the experience of what I studied, or 2.) I thought it would bring me mad cash. For reason #1, we already have the interest/excitement to pursue the learning. We started out with it. We didn't go into it "hoping we'd be interested in it". For reason #2, we are using a proxy of past people's experiences to convince us that this is what we should do... because it will pay off. ms_molly is getting me to thinking about my own experience growing up. My parents got divorced, my grandparents had miserable marriages, and I don't have any example of how the "being with someone for 10, 15, 20+ years" pays off. So, that's probably my problem. We're getting somewhere! Reason #1 and Reason #2 are falling flat for me. Not only I don't have an immediate interest, but I also don't see any previous examples of the benefit (people that have gone before and shown me the path). And, I'm not the kind of person that blindly believes in some mystical pot of gold at the end of a rainbow when it means "less good" today. I'm not religious. I don't believe in suffering on earth so that I can store up my "treasures in heaven".
This argument is still causing me the most thought. Thank you ms_molly!
* 2. going deep vs broad
These arguments are compelling as well. People go deep in certain industries, while others hop around from job to job or industry to industry. Neither is wrong. It just depends on what you want or are good at. These arguments make sense to me and have me thinking. There are definitely levels of trust and open communication that I've reached with my GF, that I've never reached with anyone else. I love that!
* 3. as we get older, the potential pool of people that will love us fades... so ACT NOW!!
This argument is very rational. I understand it. As I get old and my physical body starts to fade (and my mind), the pool of young, sharp, attractive women will fade too. So, I'd better ensure myself a companion now that I can ride into old age with. But, let's break this down a bit.
1.) it's fear-based.
Lock in NOW so that you have a guaranteed friend for later. On that, I'd rather treat people with the respect and love every day that they deserve. I'm with my GF today because I love being with her today (and tomorrow). If that love/interest started to wane but then I thought "Oh shit! I'm getting old. Better lock her in now so that I'm not alone when I'm 80 years old", I just think that's kinda lame.
2.) it isn't logically consistent
Some of the people that cited this reason also include phrases like "the pool of young, attractive women won't be there when you're old." So, if we just look at the argument, it's basically saying that the goal is to have a young/attractive woman when you're old (this btw is not part of my original post). Well, the "lock in now for old age" argument ALSO doesn't deliver on that promise. It delivers 2 old people that are together when they're old. If I want to be with an old person when I'm old, well... won't I just have to look around me at my group of friends at that time? The person I "lock in now" will be just as old as me.
* 4. caveman argument
Several people have commented on the "caveman argument" as being bullshit. And at least one person commented on how the fact that something is 'natural' doesn't necessarily make it good. This is fair. The reason I cite the biological argument is because "what is natural" does have merit. I don't want to be constantly out of sorts with my natural desires and wiring. Rather than fight that, I'd rather know it and build my life in harmony with my natural desires, not at odds with them. So long as those natural desires are not dangerous to others or myself. So, the valid refute to this argument would not be "who cares what is natural", it would be "there is other evidence that suggests this is NOT natural."
* 5. this is mid-life crisis
Yes, it probably is. And the best way to get through it is to continue going "through it", by asking, introspecting, reading. "Acting" will not be hasty.
posted by sharingideas at 9:38 AM on May 16, 2010
it's fear-based and it isn't logically consistent
Not necessarily. The group of women--young or old, attractive or unattractive--who are or will be interested in dating you if you are honest about your lack of interest in long-term commitment will shrink as you age. That doesn't mean it will be impossible for you to find interesting people to date, just that it will become increasingly difficult and you may find yourself without a romantic partner for longer and longer stretches of time.
If you are comfortable with the possibility of spending time in middle-age and later life without a romantic partner, then this shrinking pool will not concern you. But if your hopes or goals for your life include romantic companionship throughout, then it is worth considering the numbers. It isn't fear: it's logic. If what you want is endless freedom to find someone new, it's logical to ignore the numbers and risk being alone periodically; if what you want is companionship, it's logical to consider the numbers in your decision-making and forgo total freedom to date indefinitely. You can't guarantee both, so you have to pick one and hope for the best.
(Of course, some people do make decisions about their dating relationships out of fear, but it's disingenuous to ascribe their motives to everyone who makes different choices than you.)
posted by Meg_Murry at 11:03 AM on May 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Not necessarily. The group of women--young or old, attractive or unattractive--who are or will be interested in dating you if you are honest about your lack of interest in long-term commitment will shrink as you age. That doesn't mean it will be impossible for you to find interesting people to date, just that it will become increasingly difficult and you may find yourself without a romantic partner for longer and longer stretches of time.
If you are comfortable with the possibility of spending time in middle-age and later life without a romantic partner, then this shrinking pool will not concern you. But if your hopes or goals for your life include romantic companionship throughout, then it is worth considering the numbers. It isn't fear: it's logic. If what you want is endless freedom to find someone new, it's logical to ignore the numbers and risk being alone periodically; if what you want is companionship, it's logical to consider the numbers in your decision-making and forgo total freedom to date indefinitely. You can't guarantee both, so you have to pick one and hope for the best.
(Of course, some people do make decisions about their dating relationships out of fear, but it's disingenuous to ascribe their motives to everyone who makes different choices than you.)
posted by Meg_Murry at 11:03 AM on May 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
"Basically, this need comes from the caveman days where the need for support (resources) during the child bearing and raising years."
Maybe, maybe not, but it's about as relevant to now as a cookery book telling you how to cure a woolly mammoth. Lots of women want to be single, lots don't want children, lots are polyamorous. I know a married couple who each have partners of their own gender but are very much in love with each other.
"I am not 100% committed to my partner."
Then you need to leave her, take some time to think about what you want, and explore and understand it before you have another. If she;s the same age as you, she might be considering having a child before it gets too late for her, or planning what you'll do in year five, six and seven.
posted by mippy at 11:12 AM on May 16, 2010
Maybe, maybe not, but it's about as relevant to now as a cookery book telling you how to cure a woolly mammoth. Lots of women want to be single, lots don't want children, lots are polyamorous. I know a married couple who each have partners of their own gender but are very much in love with each other.
"I am not 100% committed to my partner."
Then you need to leave her, take some time to think about what you want, and explore and understand it before you have another. If she;s the same age as you, she might be considering having a child before it gets too late for her, or planning what you'll do in year five, six and seven.
posted by mippy at 11:12 AM on May 16, 2010
I don't have any example of how the "being with someone for 10, 15, 20+ years" pays off
Ok, so you don't have this example in marriages in your family. Do you have friends you've known since high school? Has your own relationship with your parents grown and changed? These might give you some insight into what it means to know and love someone for that long: the ups and downs, the times you like them more and like them less, and the satisfaction of being able to look back and see someone who knew you when you were younger and stupider and still likes you anyway. Just suggesting a way to gather more data about this aspect.
posted by MsMolly at 1:15 PM on May 16, 2010
Ok, so you don't have this example in marriages in your family. Do you have friends you've known since high school? Has your own relationship with your parents grown and changed? These might give you some insight into what it means to know and love someone for that long: the ups and downs, the times you like them more and like them less, and the satisfaction of being able to look back and see someone who knew you when you were younger and stupider and still likes you anyway. Just suggesting a way to gather more data about this aspect.
posted by MsMolly at 1:15 PM on May 16, 2010
Several people have commented on the "caveman argument" as being bullshit. And at least one person commented on how the fact that something is 'natural' doesn't necessarily make it good. This is fair. The reason I cite the biological argument is because "what is natural" does have merit. I don't want to be constantly out of sorts with my natural desires and wiring
You should definitely know yourself and be in touch with your desires and needs. But trying to fit that into the box of "caveman" ancestral behavior is not helpful, because, truly, there is no basis to it, and it doesn't apply to your personal situation. It's often used to excuse behavior someone feels guilty about.
posted by krinklyfig at 3:42 PM on May 18, 2010
You should definitely know yourself and be in touch with your desires and needs. But trying to fit that into the box of "caveman" ancestral behavior is not helpful, because, truly, there is no basis to it, and it doesn't apply to your personal situation. It's often used to excuse behavior someone feels guilty about.
posted by krinklyfig at 3:42 PM on May 18, 2010
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Relevant.
posted by phrontist at 11:02 AM on May 15, 2010 [8 favorites]