please help me with my thesis
March 7, 2010 7:57 PM Subscribe
I'm doing my creative writing thesis as a collection of short stories about people struggling to come to terms with intense childhood experiences. What kinds of experiences could I be writing about?
To give a little more detail to my thesis' concept -- I'm writing about people who, because of their experiences, are trapped within their own minds; they carry around imagined burdens, struggle with inner demons, or wander around not really sure of what they are looking for. So, this affects their inner thought processes, self-image, interactions with others, and ability to form real relationships. The underlying themes (but this isn't exhaustive) are loss, insecurity, disillusionment and epiphany (but the epiphany doesn't necessarily have to be saving).
I'm worried that, given my topic, it will be too easy to start using cliched situations. I don't want to write yet another story about kids getting molested by the crazy neighbor or beaten up by drunk stepparents, etc etc etc.
So what other situations could I deal with? I was thinking of looking through the newspaper or something to get ideas.
Another thing: The kids in my stories... I want to make them... how to describe it? Morbidly wise? You know those little kids who just seem ages older than most adults? In the sense that they have an uncommonly mature way of viewing things we usually hide from them to "protect" them, like death or suffering. These are kids who have reached an emotionally deep level that most adults will never reach.
-sigh- I'm sorry if I'm being too vague or scattered about what I'm asking and what my thesis is about. I'd just post my prospectus here (it's only about a page) to be more clear, but I don't want people from my school to know that this is me.
So, if anyone could offer some suggestions, advice, anecdotes, etc I'd greatly appreciate it!
Also, I need to write quite a bit over the next few weeks (i.e. major deadline approaching), so any tips on getting into writing "mode" would be great as well~
Thank you! :)
To give a little more detail to my thesis' concept -- I'm writing about people who, because of their experiences, are trapped within their own minds; they carry around imagined burdens, struggle with inner demons, or wander around not really sure of what they are looking for. So, this affects their inner thought processes, self-image, interactions with others, and ability to form real relationships. The underlying themes (but this isn't exhaustive) are loss, insecurity, disillusionment and epiphany (but the epiphany doesn't necessarily have to be saving).
I'm worried that, given my topic, it will be too easy to start using cliched situations. I don't want to write yet another story about kids getting molested by the crazy neighbor or beaten up by drunk stepparents, etc etc etc.
So what other situations could I deal with? I was thinking of looking through the newspaper or something to get ideas.
Another thing: The kids in my stories... I want to make them... how to describe it? Morbidly wise? You know those little kids who just seem ages older than most adults? In the sense that they have an uncommonly mature way of viewing things we usually hide from them to "protect" them, like death or suffering. These are kids who have reached an emotionally deep level that most adults will never reach.
-sigh- I'm sorry if I'm being too vague or scattered about what I'm asking and what my thesis is about. I'd just post my prospectus here (it's only about a page) to be more clear, but I don't want people from my school to know that this is me.
So, if anyone could offer some suggestions, advice, anecdotes, etc I'd greatly appreciate it!
Also, I need to write quite a bit over the next few weeks (i.e. major deadline approaching), so any tips on getting into writing "mode" would be great as well~
Thank you! :)
You'll want to read the third most-favorited Ask MetaFilter thread ever. (It's a long long thread, but there were some astounding things in it.)
posted by mbrubeck at 8:10 PM on March 7, 2010
posted by mbrubeck at 8:10 PM on March 7, 2010
If you're looking for a theme for discussion, consider the experiences of child migrants to whom the UK Government recently apologised.
They were children of single or very poor parents, often in State care or the care of religious orders, who were sent to Australia and New Zealand to work as migrant labourers. One feature that came out of many of their memories was that they often were told that their parents were dead, or didn't love them, or had sent them away, many of them believing into adulthood that they were unwanted. If your themes are loss, insecurity, disillusionment and epiphany, I can't think of a better—or worse—set of stories.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 8:12 PM on March 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
They were children of single or very poor parents, often in State care or the care of religious orders, who were sent to Australia and New Zealand to work as migrant labourers. One feature that came out of many of their memories was that they often were told that their parents were dead, or didn't love them, or had sent them away, many of them believing into adulthood that they were unwanted. If your themes are loss, insecurity, disillusionment and epiphany, I can't think of a better—or worse—set of stories.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 8:12 PM on March 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yes, migration, bullying, accidents, animals, experience with nature, learning, experience with teacher, etc etc. There's lots of things that don't have to be that horrible cliched "child called it" territory.
posted by smoke at 8:34 PM on March 7, 2010
posted by smoke at 8:34 PM on March 7, 2010
I have a story for you. It didn't have an extreme of an effect on me as what you're looking for, but it did have a resolution.
When I was three, I had to have emergency surgery. I don't remember being ill, but I do remember recovering in the hospital. I woke up and stood up in my hospital crib. First, I was confused because according to my parents, I was too old to be in a crib. I stood up and saw my mom in a chair near the crib. She was eating a sandwich. I wanted some of her sandwich. But she wouldn't give me any. Then she started laughing. All I wanted was some sandwich, but she wouldn't give me any! Then she got up and came back with some jello. I have a huge scar from the surgery, so I'm always reminded. In the back of my mind, it always bothered me that my mom was laughing at me when I was hungry.
Twenty-eight years later, my two-year-old son was genuinely sick for the first time. He had been listless and passive for a couple of days and it took every bit of my parental persuasion to get him to take in the fluids he needed. On the third day, he fell asleep on the sofa and woke up in a raging mood. He didn't want water, he didn't want juice, HE WANTED CHOCOLATE MILK AND HE WANTED IT NOW. I was delighted. I started laughing and I got him some chocolate milk.
Then, when I was in the shower a bit later, I burst into tears. Because I understood how my mom had felt, 28 years before.
posted by zinfandel at 8:45 PM on March 7, 2010 [7 favorites]
When I was three, I had to have emergency surgery. I don't remember being ill, but I do remember recovering in the hospital. I woke up and stood up in my hospital crib. First, I was confused because according to my parents, I was too old to be in a crib. I stood up and saw my mom in a chair near the crib. She was eating a sandwich. I wanted some of her sandwich. But she wouldn't give me any. Then she started laughing. All I wanted was some sandwich, but she wouldn't give me any! Then she got up and came back with some jello. I have a huge scar from the surgery, so I'm always reminded. In the back of my mind, it always bothered me that my mom was laughing at me when I was hungry.
Twenty-eight years later, my two-year-old son was genuinely sick for the first time. He had been listless and passive for a couple of days and it took every bit of my parental persuasion to get him to take in the fluids he needed. On the third day, he fell asleep on the sofa and woke up in a raging mood. He didn't want water, he didn't want juice, HE WANTED CHOCOLATE MILK AND HE WANTED IT NOW. I was delighted. I started laughing and I got him some chocolate milk.
Then, when I was in the shower a bit later, I burst into tears. Because I understood how my mom had felt, 28 years before.
posted by zinfandel at 8:45 PM on March 7, 2010 [7 favorites]
Child realizing parents aren't infallible and/or all-powerful.
posted by oflinkey at 8:56 PM on March 7, 2010
posted by oflinkey at 8:56 PM on March 7, 2010
How about a precocious 14-yr-old who ingests a really large dose of LSD, sees God, experiences the whole death-rebirth thing, struggles to maintain his sanity for days after, etc.
Seems like a pretty rich vein of material there. Just let me know if you need more insight for this theme!
posted by mikeand1 at 8:58 PM on March 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Seems like a pretty rich vein of material there. Just let me know if you need more insight for this theme!
posted by mikeand1 at 8:58 PM on March 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Growing up rock poor in a rich country like the United States is a horrible experience. Esp if one lives in suburbia. Trying to hide the real extent of our poorness left a mark on my sister (I'm more pragmatic about these things) that she never got over.
It didn't help that my mother just didn't give a damn what we looked like or who was talking about her or us... My sixth grade teacher called my mother to tell her that we needed bras and should not come back to school without one - my mother complained for days about how much we cost her. I don't know how many times she blamed us for almost getting taken away from her for her neglect. *shrug* My sister never got over that either.
Hope that's not too cliche for you.
posted by patheral at 9:04 PM on March 7, 2010
It didn't help that my mother just didn't give a damn what we looked like or who was talking about her or us... My sixth grade teacher called my mother to tell her that we needed bras and should not come back to school without one - my mother complained for days about how much we cost her. I don't know how many times she blamed us for almost getting taken away from her for her neglect. *shrug* My sister never got over that either.
Hope that's not too cliche for you.
posted by patheral at 9:04 PM on March 7, 2010
A while back in Virginia (USA) a single mother died of diabetes. Her 2 year old daughter (3?) lived a week with the decomposing body, drinking from a leak in the toilet and eating cherios from an accessible cupboard. It might have been 10 years ago (I'm sorry; I don't remember), but I'm pretty sure that the baby's name was "Miracle." I haven't been able to find the story in the online archives of The Daily Press, where I first read the story.
She was found when her father couldn't reach the mother & called someone (the police?) in. I've never heard any followup, but maybe it's out there.
I remember that the child was especially young --it blew my mind that the child was young enough to self-provide. Would that child even remember the experience? My bet is there are echoes of it throughout her life...
posted by Ys at 9:08 PM on March 7, 2010
She was found when her father couldn't reach the mother & called someone (the police?) in. I've never heard any followup, but maybe it's out there.
I remember that the child was especially young --it blew my mind that the child was young enough to self-provide. Would that child even remember the experience? My bet is there are echoes of it throughout her life...
posted by Ys at 9:08 PM on March 7, 2010
Although you seem to disregard them as cliches, I can tell you from personal experience, after spending some quality time in various psych wards, that the most common problems from childhood that people struggle with for the rest of their lives are:
a) molestation/rape
b) abuse or neglect
c) identity problems (adoption/not knowing a parent)
d) death of a loved one (especially if it was a suicide)
e) early onset of mental illness (mostly psychosis)
f) near death experience
I for one have always been haunted by the night terrors I had as a child, and certain other odd sensations and experiences (which were relatively bland compared to the above) that always stuck with me like a psychic splinter, pulsating throughout my history. And I think one of the common elements of the above is the inability to make sense, to understand, to accept, to process an event. Any experience of a traumatic or shattering nature is especially destructive when it happens to a child, and can mark the child for life if he/she is unable to integrate this experience into their larger framework of life.
However, it is these very struggles that often, if they are overcome, or if they become more than just a source of pain, lead to a 're-birth' of sorts, or a deeper and subtler appreciation for the fantastic range of life's experiences, emotions, events.
posted by operaposthuma at 9:12 PM on March 7, 2010
a) molestation/rape
b) abuse or neglect
c) identity problems (adoption/not knowing a parent)
d) death of a loved one (especially if it was a suicide)
e) early onset of mental illness (mostly psychosis)
f) near death experience
I for one have always been haunted by the night terrors I had as a child, and certain other odd sensations and experiences (which were relatively bland compared to the above) that always stuck with me like a psychic splinter, pulsating throughout my history. And I think one of the common elements of the above is the inability to make sense, to understand, to accept, to process an event. Any experience of a traumatic or shattering nature is especially destructive when it happens to a child, and can mark the child for life if he/she is unable to integrate this experience into their larger framework of life.
However, it is these very struggles that often, if they are overcome, or if they become more than just a source of pain, lead to a 're-birth' of sorts, or a deeper and subtler appreciation for the fantastic range of life's experiences, emotions, events.
posted by operaposthuma at 9:12 PM on March 7, 2010
I think the kids in this story will have a lot to process as they grow up.
posted by embrangled at 9:34 PM on March 7, 2010
posted by embrangled at 9:34 PM on March 7, 2010
Alice Munro wrote about getting felt up on a train by an older man. They make you read it in English 100 in university.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:49 PM on March 7, 2010
posted by KokuRyu at 9:49 PM on March 7, 2010
A close relative fondling your genitals.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 9:55 PM on March 7, 2010
posted by uncanny hengeman at 9:55 PM on March 7, 2010
My goddaughter's parents defaulted badly on their homeloan. Calling us at 0800 because they and their stuff needed to be out by 1700 type defaulting. We got there by 0900 and started to help packing - one of the most memorable parts of the day was standing in the loungeroom while she ate her breakfast, removalists provided by the bank went back and forth, back and forth with their belongings and while her parents sat on the floor crying. I could only stand it for an hour or so and ended up taking her and her brother out for the day. My partner stayed there, helping, the entire day. When we came back in the afternoon there was this layer of crap everywhere - nothing was cleaned, nothing was tidied. Their entire house was empty except for rubbish. She said goodbye and that was it. After that they stayed at a couple of different places (including ours) and then moved to another country within two weeks.
Last time she visited she began crying at a toy store because she wanted a toy like the one they'd had to leave at the old house.
posted by geek anachronism at 9:59 PM on March 7, 2010
Last time she visited she began crying at a toy store because she wanted a toy like the one they'd had to leave at the old house.
posted by geek anachronism at 9:59 PM on March 7, 2010
Some ideas from experiences in my social circle.
Kid gets caught in rip at the beach. Dad goes in to save kid. Dad can't swim and drowns but kid survives. Some ongoing issues from rest of family directed to kid.
Kid born in Australia from Holocaust survivor parents who met after the war. Much inherited distress over effects of being a child of parents from concentration camps.
Kid and parents 'boat people' refugees from the Vietnam war who survived many days in a slowly sinking overcrowded boat. Kid sees baby (only sibling) die and its body thrown overboard. Even after settling in safe country, Mother suffers bad psychological effects and has no other children.
Kid comes from happy low income middle class family. Has enjoyable childhood in rural area. Then kid's grandparents win A LOT OF MONEY and give half to kid's parents. Kid's father becomes professional investor and financial advisor. Much money splashed around. Father gets greedy. Embezzles money from clients, gets caught, goes to jail. All assets must be sold and kid, siblings and mother end up in worse financial situation than before win.
And my own story.
posted by Kerasia at 10:42 PM on March 7, 2010
Kid gets caught in rip at the beach. Dad goes in to save kid. Dad can't swim and drowns but kid survives. Some ongoing issues from rest of family directed to kid.
Kid born in Australia from Holocaust survivor parents who met after the war. Much inherited distress over effects of being a child of parents from concentration camps.
Kid and parents 'boat people' refugees from the Vietnam war who survived many days in a slowly sinking overcrowded boat. Kid sees baby (only sibling) die and its body thrown overboard. Even after settling in safe country, Mother suffers bad psychological effects and has no other children.
Kid comes from happy low income middle class family. Has enjoyable childhood in rural area. Then kid's grandparents win A LOT OF MONEY and give half to kid's parents. Kid's father becomes professional investor and financial advisor. Much money splashed around. Father gets greedy. Embezzles money from clients, gets caught, goes to jail. All assets must be sold and kid, siblings and mother end up in worse financial situation than before win.
And my own story.
posted by Kerasia at 10:42 PM on March 7, 2010
Death of a childhood friend to brain cancer. 3rd grade maybe?
I can still see her huge smile in the few days she came back to school. She had wanted to be near us. Not long after, our teacher told us she had died.
posted by bilabial at 5:06 AM on March 8, 2010
I can still see her huge smile in the few days she came back to school. She had wanted to be near us. Not long after, our teacher told us she had died.
posted by bilabial at 5:06 AM on March 8, 2010
Social rejection causes a child to grow up too soon and also leaves scars.
Unkind teacher wrongfully accuses sensitive child of wrong and makes her sit in place of punishment where she will be mocked by the whole school for being bad.
Verbally abusive father was mentally ill in hospital, attractive mother had a boyfriend and was necking on the porch in full view of all the girls in her 4th grade slumber party. After that none of the other kids were allowed to talk to her. Multiple unkindnesses through life
Fortunately, her issue is largely resolved when she becomes a Christian and learns to be secure in God's unconditional love.
True story.
posted by srbrunson at 5:52 AM on March 8, 2010
Unkind teacher wrongfully accuses sensitive child of wrong and makes her sit in place of punishment where she will be mocked by the whole school for being bad.
Verbally abusive father was mentally ill in hospital, attractive mother had a boyfriend and was necking on the porch in full view of all the girls in her 4th grade slumber party. After that none of the other kids were allowed to talk to her. Multiple unkindnesses through life
Fortunately, her issue is largely resolved when she becomes a Christian and learns to be secure in God's unconditional love.
True story.
posted by srbrunson at 5:52 AM on March 8, 2010
This story will hopefully become less and less common (it may be already) but--I've had two different friends (one who disclosed this when we were both in high school) who were absolutely shredded as children when a parent came out to the family and left to find a more compatible partner.
Not shredded so much because of shame or prejudice against gay people (though it wasn't in a very progressive part of the country, so it must have been much more isolating than going through a "normal" divorce), but that sense that their parent had been "living a lie", "I don't know who he/she even was," etc. I don't know if or how those feelings mellowed into adulthood.
Along those lines: a much cherished child who discovers mom or dad abandoned a previous child, or set of children, the same gender or not, whom they've never met and never heard spoken of.
Or (again, this story may not be common anymore) the institutionalized sibling no one ever speaks of.
posted by availablelight at 6:33 AM on March 8, 2010
Not shredded so much because of shame or prejudice against gay people (though it wasn't in a very progressive part of the country, so it must have been much more isolating than going through a "normal" divorce), but that sense that their parent had been "living a lie", "I don't know who he/she even was," etc. I don't know if or how those feelings mellowed into adulthood.
Along those lines: a much cherished child who discovers mom or dad abandoned a previous child, or set of children, the same gender or not, whom they've never met and never heard spoken of.
Or (again, this story may not be common anymore) the institutionalized sibling no one ever speaks of.
posted by availablelight at 6:33 AM on March 8, 2010
A child who underwent medical procedures that in retrospect they feel affected them adversely. For example.
posted by phrontist at 7:42 AM on March 8, 2010
posted by phrontist at 7:42 AM on March 8, 2010
Children, like adults, were profoundly effected by 9/11, even if they weren't hurt directly.
posted by BusyBusyBusy at 10:55 AM on March 8, 2010
posted by BusyBusyBusy at 10:55 AM on March 8, 2010
My best friend in 4th grade had a bizarre incident happen. Her little sister had done something, can't remember what, and her dad swatted her butt with a newspaper.
When he pulled back his arm to swat baby sis, he scraped his knuckle on that textured wall stuff you see in some houses that have drywall but no wallpaper, kind of pebbly? Nobody thought anything of it.
Dad had a heart condition and was born with a congenital heart defect - I vaguely remember it being a hole in one of his valves, or something similar - and the next day he dropped dead without any warning.
Apparently the scratch had gotten infected overnight and went directly to his heart and killed him. My friend, we'll call her J, says that they have never to this day told baby sis the reason their father died.
Several years later, mom remarried and stepdad adopted both children and it was never discussed again for fear of traumatizing J's sister. Even as a child I knew to NEVER bring this up around the family, as did everyone else, because we knew something bad would happen and J's sister would feel as though she'd killed her father, although nobody could have known.
I have something more disturbing to relate but not here, I'll memail it to you.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 3:38 PM on March 8, 2010
When he pulled back his arm to swat baby sis, he scraped his knuckle on that textured wall stuff you see in some houses that have drywall but no wallpaper, kind of pebbly? Nobody thought anything of it.
Dad had a heart condition and was born with a congenital heart defect - I vaguely remember it being a hole in one of his valves, or something similar - and the next day he dropped dead without any warning.
Apparently the scratch had gotten infected overnight and went directly to his heart and killed him. My friend, we'll call her J, says that they have never to this day told baby sis the reason their father died.
Several years later, mom remarried and stepdad adopted both children and it was never discussed again for fear of traumatizing J's sister. Even as a child I knew to NEVER bring this up around the family, as did everyone else, because we knew something bad would happen and J's sister would feel as though she'd killed her father, although nobody could have known.
I have something more disturbing to relate but not here, I'll memail it to you.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 3:38 PM on March 8, 2010
What about a child who becomes famous (locally or nationally) at a young age? Especially if the fame is fleeting.
posted by SisterHavana at 9:02 PM on March 8, 2010
posted by SisterHavana at 9:02 PM on March 8, 2010
To an intense person, all childhood events intense and vivid. Hence: Araby.
It's fine to do research but not at all necessary. In the end any choice, even the cliched grandparent's death or nasty uncle, can work as a subject if you care about it and make strong, innovative narrative decisions.
The best tip I have about getting into writing mode is to start writing and see what happens. Which is what I'm not doing by typing this so I'm going to follow my own advice.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:51 AM on March 9, 2010
It's fine to do research but not at all necessary. In the end any choice, even the cliched grandparent's death or nasty uncle, can work as a subject if you care about it and make strong, innovative narrative decisions.
The best tip I have about getting into writing mode is to start writing and see what happens. Which is what I'm not doing by typing this so I'm going to follow my own advice.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:51 AM on March 9, 2010
I was talking with the other anachronism and remembered one of those odd little childhood moments that seems to have made a disproportionate amount of difference to my life. I must have been in grade 3 or 4 because my sister was coming to school as well and in either grade 1 or 2. It was the height of Cabbage Patch Kid rage. Everyone had one. They were way too expensive for our family but my grandfather was at some markets and saw cheap one so bought us both a doll. Like most cheap knockoffs they weren't quite right. When we took them to school (unknowingly) one of the older and more popular girls sat down with me and told me everything that was wrong with my doll. It wasn't a real cabbage patch doll. Couldn't I see that the ears and the hair are all wrong? I couldn't tell before then, but when she pointed it out I can remember a burning starting up in my stomach. She went on to explain that only poor people had crappy dolls like mine.
Then? Then she went and said the same thing to my little sister. I can remember standing on the other side of the playground with roaring in my ears while she talked to my sister and made her cry.
I went home and hid the doll. I think I eventually explained to my mother what happened. At some point I did receive a real cabbage patch doll (it had the prettiest hair) but the magic of dolls and popular toys was lost for both me and my sister. Both of us carry this hatred of brand names and trends and popularity. It's served us well in a lot of ways but I can still remember that burning shame as a child. Shame at not only being poor, but being so obviously stupid as to not realise how poor I was and how different my doll was.
(I can also remember being so fucking confused when that same horrible girl looked after my sister one sports carnival - she was so mean, why was she suddenly being nice? The vagaries of personality have taken me a lot longer to process.)
posted by geek anachronism at 5:00 PM on March 9, 2010
Then? Then she went and said the same thing to my little sister. I can remember standing on the other side of the playground with roaring in my ears while she talked to my sister and made her cry.
I went home and hid the doll. I think I eventually explained to my mother what happened. At some point I did receive a real cabbage patch doll (it had the prettiest hair) but the magic of dolls and popular toys was lost for both me and my sister. Both of us carry this hatred of brand names and trends and popularity. It's served us well in a lot of ways but I can still remember that burning shame as a child. Shame at not only being poor, but being so obviously stupid as to not realise how poor I was and how different my doll was.
(I can also remember being so fucking confused when that same horrible girl looked after my sister one sports carnival - she was so mean, why was she suddenly being nice? The vagaries of personality have taken me a lot longer to process.)
posted by geek anachronism at 5:00 PM on March 9, 2010
Response by poster: Thank you all for the many useful answers! They are all really helpful (although I did get a bit depressed reading about so many sad experiences).
And also, I'd like to point out, to prevent misunderstanding, that even though I said "cliche" at the beginning of my post, I'm not by any means undermining the seriousness or legitimacy or severity of those particular, terrible, experiences. I just wanted to write about something that was not as talked about. So, I'm sorry if anyone was offended by the way I phrased my question.
Again, thank you all for the answers!
posted by joyeuxamelie at 9:41 AM on March 10, 2010
And also, I'd like to point out, to prevent misunderstanding, that even though I said "cliche" at the beginning of my post, I'm not by any means undermining the seriousness or legitimacy or severity of those particular, terrible, experiences. I just wanted to write about something that was not as talked about. So, I'm sorry if anyone was offended by the way I phrased my question.
Again, thank you all for the answers!
posted by joyeuxamelie at 9:41 AM on March 10, 2010
I just came across a webpage called "470 Issues in Kids' Lives" and remembered your post. It might be useful to conjure up some ideas!:
http://www.rickwalton.com/freeu/brains/issues.htm
posted by oceanview at 6:08 PM on March 18, 2010
http://www.rickwalton.com/freeu/brains/issues.htm
posted by oceanview at 6:08 PM on March 18, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks, oceanview! I appreciate you coming back to post that~ ^__^
posted by joyeuxamelie at 7:23 PM on March 19, 2010
posted by joyeuxamelie at 7:23 PM on March 19, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by metahawk at 8:02 PM on March 7, 2010