First date - all great apart from one potential dealbreaker

December 6, 2009 1:29 PM

I had a first date on the weekend with someone I was matched with on an online dating site. We’ve been emailing each other for a couple of weeks and getting on really well – lots in common, similar outlook and aims in life. In person she ticks pretty much all the boxes too, physically and personality wise... except for her teeth.

They’re crooked, which isn’t a problem in itself, but they’re also really yellow and almost a bit scungey – almost as if she hadn’t actually even brushed them for a while. Very strange because she was really well dressed so it’s not as if she doesn’t care about personal appearance. I noticed it straight away and feel really shallow for making it an obstacle... but I want to get past it because in all other respects I’m confident it would work out. I’m not asking “how can I raise this with her” because I know I can’t, not at first/second date stage... but any hints on how I can get over this?

posted by infinitejones to Human Relations (28 answers total)

Not sure what scrungy is, but a lot of my family have relatively dingy teeth genetically. Nothing you can do about them but get them professionally "painted." Not sure it's true for her (if it's just tea or cigarettes regular tooth whiteners would help) but something to bear in mind if you bring it up.
posted by small_ruminant at 1:34 PM on December 6, 2009

Certain medications and illnesses can cause teeth to look "dirty" even when they're not. (Tetracycline, for one med.) If you get to know her, you will probably find out what causes the problem. If you get to like her, maybe it will cease to matter? That said, cosmetic dentistry has come a long way. Maybe she has a plan to improve the aesthetics eventually.
posted by juniper at 1:34 PM on December 6, 2009 [2 favorites]

First thing, try not to delude yourself into thinking that it's irrational. It bugs you, that's fine. You're perfectly allowed to be irrational.

Next, I think most of the advice you're going to find here is that it'll just take time. And I think that's it, it will. Things stand out at the first glance. Over time, they just fade into the background. As your feelings for her grow, you'll start overlooking this.

I'd simply just give it awhile, try not to dwell on it, and recognize that in time it's likely to go away. If it doesn't, act on it after the relationship has progressed a bit. You seem to be on top of it.
posted by miasma at 1:38 PM on December 6, 2009 [1 favorite]

Despite every actor having perfectly white teeth, it is actually natural for some people to have more yellow teeth than others. I don't know about the scungey part, but the yellow could be natural, or stains -- even with very rigorous brushing, things like regular coffee consumption will stain your teeth and only professional whitening intervention is going to do anything. For people whose teeth are just naturally more yellow, it can take some pretty severe (and actually damaging) treatment to more closely conform to the "standard". So if she is actually brushing regularly and seeing a dentist relatively regularly (like once a year or so), I don't know that it's fair to expect her to do any more. Some people don't believe in having cosmetic alterations done just to conform to an idealized notion of beauty.
posted by R343L at 1:41 PM on December 6, 2009

She's a woman you find otherwise attractive, but you don't like her teeth. As others have said, it's much more likely that her teeth were affected by some kind of environmental or genetic issue than that she neglects basic oral hygiene, so this is something you'll have to decide for yourself about whether or not it's a deal-breaker.

I have some issues with my own tooth enamel from childhood--my dentist doesn't know whether they result from high doses of antibiotics in infancy or from an idiopathic developmental issue--and they've proved to be a bit of a hassle to manage. Fortunately for me, they're not visible to others, but I can certainly imagine someone with similar issues not wanting to have cosmetic dentistry like veneers or something, because it would make the actual tooth harder to treat, and having healthy teeth is much more important than having a Hollywood smile.
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:46 PM on December 6, 2009

A lot of people's teeth are naturally less-than-white. A lifetime of coffee, tea or soda can make that worse no matter how well you brush. If her teeth were grimy too, it could be something she can't help or perhaps she just didn't have time to brush as thoroughly before the date as she would normally (because she didn't want to be late?).

If you two find yourselves discussing insecurities at any point, you could always bring up something about your own appearance that bothers you. She might then feel confident enough to say, "Oh man. I know what you mean. I've always been nervous about my teeth, and I can't seem to get them white enough no matter what I do!"

Alternatively, you could just kiss her. If you enjoy it, problem solved. ;-)
posted by katillathehun at 1:47 PM on December 6, 2009

As someone whose teeth had a big yellow stripe across them due to tetracycline staining up until a few months ago, when a dentist threw some white filling material over them, my vote is to just take deep breaths and work on getting over this. It's definitely not necessarily a reflection of oral hygiene.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 1:57 PM on December 6, 2009

It may be possible that she's already undergoing some kind of dental treatment - with Invisalign, many people have clear-ish attachments cemented on their teeth that look like, well, scunge. Oh and your teeth sometimes get a bit yellower during treatment. Did it look anything like this?

Anyways, tough call but if the good news is that bad teeth are pretty easy to fix, if she wants to in the future. At least easier to fix than a bad personality!
posted by vodkaboots at 2:01 PM on December 6, 2009 [1 favorite]

There are two separate issues going on. Crookedness and discolouration.

Crookedness - they came out that way. It is likely that there is nothing she has done to make them crooked so give her a break on that one.

Discolouration is a whole nother thing.

I had scrungy teeth from antibiotic treatment before spending a small fortune on getting them capped.

I quite liked it when potential partners or new friends went 'umm, what's up with the teeth?'. I appreciated their forthrightness and felt it easier to talk about them.

Ask. If she gets offended by your question it is likely that they are discoloured from poor hygiene and that's a good thing to know and decide upon. If she gives an explanation that the discolouration is genetic, a poor diet as a kid, or antibiotic use then give her a break, the discolouration was not her fault.

Teeth and smile ARE important attributes. And from my experience with my ex-husband whose teeth were ugly from poor hygiene, it can actually grate after a while if they are not pleasing or attractive.
posted by Kerasia at 2:05 PM on December 6, 2009

Illnesses as a child, too much fluoride, as well as antibiotics can all have a major impact on teeth yellowing. If you say anything you are definitely going to come off as shallow--it is shallow to glom onto one physical aspect of a deal breaker. You're certainly within your rights, but it's still shallow.

I disagree with the poster above who thinks that if she's offended by you insinuating about her teeth on a second date, then she obviously doesn't take care of her teeth. People feel uncomfortable for different reasons, not just because they've been neglectful and it's completely ridiculous to suggest that. "So, what's the deal with your morbid obesity?" OH I'M SO GLAD YOU NOTICED AND ASKED.

What? Not how it works.
posted by shownomercy at 2:23 PM on December 6, 2009 [2 favorites]

Give it time. My husband had not-great teeth when I met him, a combination of bad genetics and childhood poverty. After a year, I didn't care any more. He did get them fixed to avoid them crumbling out of his head, and now he has a mouth full of crowns and his dentist has a new car, but that was after we'd been together for about seven years.
posted by KathrynT at 2:24 PM on December 6, 2009 [2 favorites]

I'm going to concede that this is an issue I would likely not be able to get over were I in your shoes. And I'm inclined to believe that you will likely never fully get over it. BUT...

As others have stated, the issue may lose its prominence the more you get to know your lady friend. I suspect on down the line, if things work out, you will be able to broach the subject more readily and perhaps even surprise her with something cosmetic that could rectify the problem. Once you have established a comfort level with her, I suspect she will not be offended by your gift and may even welcome it.

Good luck. This is a toughie for sure.
posted by GeniPalm at 2:32 PM on December 6, 2009

The question is whether it bugs you that she's got odd-looking teeth, or whether it bugs you that you will be seen with someone with odd-looking teeth. There's absolutely nothing wrong with either being a dealbreaker, but identifying which one is the more prominent issue will be a good step in figuring out whether you can get over it or not.
posted by griphus at 2:41 PM on December 6, 2009 [1 favorite]

I think if you like everything else about her, see her again. You'll probably stop noticing the teeth as much because you'll like her overall. The guy I'm seeing now has the same teeth as you described and I remember when I first met him I was telling my friend "uck, I'm not sure I can date someone with bad teeth" and now I look at him and think he has the sweetest smile and don't even notice them as much. And hopefully in a little while you guys will be comfortable enough for you to bring it up - maybe she was saving up to get her teeth fixed, maybe she never noticed but doesn't mind going to get them whitened. I actually plan on asking guy-I-am-dating what is up with his teeth sometime soon, because I like him enough to care about them long-term. So I think it'd be OK to bring that up in that case, right?
posted by KateHasQuestions at 3:06 PM on December 6, 2009

Augh! You are my fear! I have genetically yellow teeth. I brush, I never get cavities They're just yellow. I sometimes worry that people will think I am gross because I live in the US where ultra-white teeth are strongly preferred. So if it helps, consider that tooth color is not necessarily indicative of tooth health or tooth hygiene. If she has nice breath and doesn't periodically clasp her swollen jaw in pain, she is probably doing OK on the clean teeth front. If after that the color still bothers you, well, people are weird and have weird preferences. I don't like it when my roommate's food touches my food in the pantry (we each have our own shelf whaaat?). Only you can decide when you're so uncomfortable that it's not worth going forward.
posted by prefpara at 3:43 PM on December 6, 2009 [2 favorites]

Ask. If she gets offended by your question it is likely that they are discoloured from poor hygiene and that's a good thing to know and decide upon.

What?! No! "Why do your teeth look gross?" is a surefire way to kill off all potential with this person, and most people would be offended by that question... especially if they can't help the discoloration.
posted by katillathehun at 3:59 PM on December 6, 2009 [12 favorites]

If her personal hygiene is otherwise pleasant, it's probably due to something like medication that caused staining or some other factor beyond her control. An acquaintance of mine has always been self-conscious about stains on her teeth caused by some childhood illness (or treatment thereof)--she's always stylishly dressed and isn't some scuzzy person who doesn't bathe/brush her teeth, but she worries about what assumptions people make based on her teeth. That's not to say you should keep seeing this woman if you don't want to, or that it's inappropriate to ask, but do tread very carefully if you choose to bring it up. You can be certain she already knows her teeth are yellowish.

You get over it by assuming you haven't misjudged the rest of her: if she's an interesting, attractive, stylish woman who happens to have stained teeth, you'll get used to her teeth same as you'd get used to any other "flaw" in someone you date. If, on the other hand, you find out her teeth are stained because she doesn't brush them, well, that's just disgusting and you should consult one of the many "My partner refuses to bathe/brush her teeth/wash his hands and I find it gross--what should I do?" old AskMe's.
posted by Meg_Murry at 4:39 PM on December 6, 2009 [1 favorite]

I remember getting turned off by a beautiful girl because she had big thumbs and tiny thumbnails. So, it's okay to be turned off, I think.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:46 PM on December 6, 2009

I wouldn't be able to go on a second date - I look at teeth before anything else. But hey, I got dandruff when I grew my hair out and I'm sure there are plenty of people who would take one look at me and write me off.

You're not making a value judgement about the other person if it skeezes you out. You're recognizing a particular aestetic that's important to you.

Good luck!
posted by bpm140 at 5:04 PM on December 6, 2009

My old roommate had greyish, spotty teeth- scungey would be a good adjective- because of having had naturally over-fluoridated water from her childhood home's aquifer. She was really self-conscious about them. She tried to whiten them by all the under $100 ways and nothing worked, and she plans to get them cosmetically fixed as soon as she has the (considerable) money saved. I'd give this girl a pass on her teeth for a bit and keep seeing her; North America is obsessed with white teeth, so she's probably aware, self-conscious and eager to fix them when the timing is right. Don't miss a good thing for a minor cosmetic issue.
posted by twistofrhyme at 5:11 PM on December 6, 2009 [4 favorites]

If the problem actually is that she does not brush her teeth, then I think your problem is similar to this question from earlier today. In that question, an otherwise good guy is not bathing.
posted by Houstonian at 5:34 PM on December 6, 2009

I hereby bet you One Favorite that she is acutely aware of her teeth and will get them fixed as soon as she can afford to do so.

Count yourself lucky, most people's flaws are permanent!
posted by miyabo at 6:01 PM on December 6, 2009 [1 favorite]

If you care that much about her teeth, then you two are not a perfect match. Be Cruel to be Kind.
posted by ovvl at 7:39 PM on December 6, 2009

To answer your question, try not to dwell on it and just go out with her again. If you two hit it off, chances are you'll eventually stop noticing the teeth. And maybe she'll get them fixed at some point.

But hey, if they remain a complete turn-off for you, then there's not much you can do but accept it and break things off. I happen to like crooked teeth (I think they make people look interesting and attractive) but everyone has their preferences.
posted by emd3737 at 7:50 PM on December 6, 2009

It's a joke to you, I know, but in the UK crooked teeth aren't unusual at all. Mine are crooked, and I'm not fond of it, but there are better things to spend my money on than the exhorbitant cost of cosmetic dentistry. (I find it really odd that the US makes fun of us for having crooked teeth when we keep schtumm about people dying of preventable diseases every day because they're poor, but there you go.)

i didn't look after them so well as a kid (toothpaste made me gag) and perhaps she's the same - early damage is hard to fix by normal care. And I'm damned sure she is aware of it. I was once talking to someone at university when I was eighteen and out of the blue he responded with 'Your teeth are crooked!' I'm ashamed to say I didn't smile open-mouthed in photos for a while after that.
posted by mippy at 5:33 AM on December 7, 2009 [2 favorites]

Do you know if she was raised in one of the rural areas (like where I live) that still doesn't have fluoridated water? Do you smell a diaper when she talks? Did she grow up in a remote environment where teeth-brushing wasn't part of the culture of people's personal care?

Out where I live, where there are two dentists for 30,000 people and no fluoride in any of the five city water districts, people wouldn't dream of going out in public without a bath, without clean clothes, without deodorant. But brush their teeth? They just never got the habit. Both dentist do a free presentation in each of the elementary schools, with brushes, paste, fluoride rinse and disclosing drops, but without parental reinforcement, it doesn't take. Most women start losing their teeth as soon as they start having children, and you can parse most people's daily menus off the front of their grilles when they smile.

I interviewed one of the county's two dentists and he told me while he was doing student work at a public clinic, he could look at the zip code on a patient intake form and make an accurate estimate of the work they'd be doing.
posted by toodleydoodley at 7:17 AM on December 7, 2009

How much does dentistry cost in the US? Here, an NHS checkup costs about £20, and minor work £45 - some people can't afford this, some people can't get an NHS dentist anyway. It's free if you're under 16, though, but braces aren't as common as they are in the US for some reason. Maybe, as toodleydoodley says, 'cosmetic' dentistry isn't part of the culture.

Flouridation of water has been hotly debated here - they should just go ahead and do it.
posted by mippy at 1:42 AM on December 8, 2009

mippy,

Like other health care, dentistry is very expensive in the US but also very high quality for those who can afford it. Most middle class people have dental insurance that covers routine appointments, which commonly run $150-200. Many middle class people will spend up to $2000 on braces for their children (which isn't usually covered by insurance). If you're a middle-class person and hang out with other middle class people, it's unusual to see anyone with bad teeth.

A typical private dental clinic is owned by a dentist and staffed by several dental assistants, who are paid per procedure. The dentist has many years of post-graduate education, while the dental assistants usually have a two-year technical certification. The dental assistants do most of the work including routine cleaning, but they legally have to be supervised by a dentist, who at least makes an appearance for every patient. The law was recently changed so dental assistants have more autonomy, which should hopefully lower the cost of routine appointments.

Subsidized government-run dental clinics are also available in many cities. The one near me charges about 1/3rd the going rate for most procedures, and is open to anyone. It's pretty unpleasant to go to, so most people use private dentists if they can afford it.

Only a few cities in the US don't fluoridate their water, and they are usually considered pretty backwards by the rest of the country.
posted by miyabo at 1:37 PM on December 8, 2009