It's a locker room, not a peep show.
September 30, 2009 10:16 PM Subscribe
What is the best way to ask a grandmother to remove her 10 year old grandson from the ladies locker room?
This is a family gym without a family changing room. The gym policy is children under the age of 6 change in the locker room of the adult who accompanies them. Children over 6 are expected to use the locker room of their sex. Generally, there's some flexibility and no one gets too worried about it.
Here is the rub. There is one woman who brings a her grandson into the room and he is a few years too old to be there. I think he may have some special needs and he's very difficult. The gym's daycare program will not watch him because of his behavior issues.
He's at an age where he's quite interested in women's bodies. He openly stares when women change into their swimsuits. There are only 3 bathroom stalls and he's there at a popular time to use the gym. We can't all use the bathroom stall to change. There are also young women who are his age in the locker room. They all use the bathrooms when he's there.
This has been brought up to the grandmother before and she was very dismissive because "he's a little boy." What's the correct approach? I don't want to ask the gym manager to boot the kid out of the locker room, because I think it would be embarrassing for everyone. If grandma isn't inclined to remove him, I'm not sure what else to do.
This is a family gym without a family changing room. The gym policy is children under the age of 6 change in the locker room of the adult who accompanies them. Children over 6 are expected to use the locker room of their sex. Generally, there's some flexibility and no one gets too worried about it.
Here is the rub. There is one woman who brings a her grandson into the room and he is a few years too old to be there. I think he may have some special needs and he's very difficult. The gym's daycare program will not watch him because of his behavior issues.
He's at an age where he's quite interested in women's bodies. He openly stares when women change into their swimsuits. There are only 3 bathroom stalls and he's there at a popular time to use the gym. We can't all use the bathroom stall to change. There are also young women who are his age in the locker room. They all use the bathrooms when he's there.
This has been brought up to the grandmother before and she was very dismissive because "he's a little boy." What's the correct approach? I don't want to ask the gym manager to boot the kid out of the locker room, because I think it would be embarrassing for everyone. If grandma isn't inclined to remove him, I'm not sure what else to do.
Could you get some time to talk to the gym manager about this when they're not already using the facilities? That sounds like it might be less confrontational for you and easier on the gym manager, who can then just pull them aside and explain that he can't be in there staring at the other women and children.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 10:20 PM on September 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 10:20 PM on September 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
It's been brought up to her before; now it's the staff's job to enforce their policy. Somehow I doubt they'd boot them out, but I'm sure she would be told of repercussions to her membership if she continued causing problems. Don't worry; in any case it's not your problem and it _is_ your right to feel comfortable in a public space.
posted by Hardcore Poser at 10:26 PM on September 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Hardcore Poser at 10:26 PM on September 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
I don't see how you can remove the kid if he has special needs. Why should some idiotic modesty trump the needs of a child? Where's the accommodation to which the child is entitled? And frankly, you're not entitled to have Grandma explain the nature of the child's needs, either. He hasn't got xray vision, so it's not like being looked at causes any damage. Get a grip.
posted by Goofyy at 10:30 PM on September 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Goofyy at 10:30 PM on September 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Grandma is probably bringing kid into changing room because she wants to keep an eye on him (re behaviour issues) But obviously him staring at the women changing isn't cool either. A compromise: make the kid stay in a stall until Grandma is finished?
posted by titanium_geek at 10:37 PM on September 30, 2009
posted by titanium_geek at 10:37 PM on September 30, 2009
Response by poster: Goofyy - I genuinely do not know that there are special needs here. He is very disruptive - yelling at his grandmother and occasionally pushing her. Today he spent a few minutes calling her names because she bought the wrong kind of Lunchable. There could be something issue in the social interaction spectrum or he could be simply acting out because he's uncomfortable. I genuinely don't know.
posted by 26.2 at 10:39 PM on September 30, 2009
posted by 26.2 at 10:39 PM on September 30, 2009
Theres strength in numbers. I would ask a few others who don't appreciate the ten year old being there to go along with you and talk to the manager and explain the problem in depth. Maybe do this while the place isn't very busy. The problem then is going to be, where does he go while granny is dressing, since the daycare won't watch him. Maybe an attendant could watch him for a few minutes while granny is dressing. Only on a trial basis of course. If he proves too hard to handle, granny should find the solution. Whatever it may be.
posted by Taurid at 10:41 PM on September 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Taurid at 10:41 PM on September 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
FWIW, as a young girl at the gym (8? 9?) I remember being very uncomfortable about 8 year old boys being in the locker room. So beyond 'silly adult modesty' concerns... 'what about the children?'
Sorry Grandma, but working out isn't a right.
Keep on complaining to staff.
posted by k8t at 10:44 PM on September 30, 2009 [7 favorites]
Sorry Grandma, but working out isn't a right.
Keep on complaining to staff.
posted by k8t at 10:44 PM on September 30, 2009 [7 favorites]
Why should some idiotic modesty trump the needs of a child?
What about the needs of the other children? "There are also young women who are his age in the locker room. They all use the bathrooms when he's there."
The girls' right to use their locker room without being stared at trumps the boy's right to be in the girls' locker room, staring at girls.
Ask the staff to enforce their rules.
posted by lemuria at 10:45 PM on September 30, 2009 [47 favorites]
What about the needs of the other children? "There are also young women who are his age in the locker room. They all use the bathrooms when he's there."
The girls' right to use their locker room without being stared at trumps the boy's right to be in the girls' locker room, staring at girls.
Ask the staff to enforce their rules.
posted by lemuria at 10:45 PM on September 30, 2009 [47 favorites]
The kid should be using the stalls to change. Even if they leave the door open and Gran stands in the doorway.
You can accomodate a special needs kid without allowing him to ogle the other people in there.
I'd take this up with the manager. She's being inconsiderate, and there are ways around this.
posted by Jilder at 10:48 PM on September 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
You can accomodate a special needs kid without allowing him to ogle the other people in there.
I'd take this up with the manager. She's being inconsiderate, and there are ways around this.
posted by Jilder at 10:48 PM on September 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
I know, this is telling you the solution you've already eliminated, but ask the gym manager to deal with the problem -- whether it's booting the kid, finding someplace else for them to change, assigning someone to watch him in the men's locker room or something else entirely.
If one member addressing this issue with granny hasn't helped, then more isn't going to help any more, and all that's going to do is make the issue personal and embarrassing for the individual members and granny. It's the gym manager's job to deal with these things, and they can do it somewhere private and out of the way, where you only really have the option to talk to granny in the locker room. It might seem like you're taking the cowardly way out by appealing to authority rather than dealing with it yourself, but really, it's the better way.
Don't go to the manager demanding that they must deal with it in a specific way -- just tell them what the problem is, and let them find a workable solution. You can have suggestions in mind if they want them, but don't try to force them down a single solution path. Leave the solution up to them, so they can try to find the gentlest thing for granny and grandson that solves the problem, rather than necessarily going straight to whatever the nuclear option is in this case.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:50 PM on September 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
If one member addressing this issue with granny hasn't helped, then more isn't going to help any more, and all that's going to do is make the issue personal and embarrassing for the individual members and granny. It's the gym manager's job to deal with these things, and they can do it somewhere private and out of the way, where you only really have the option to talk to granny in the locker room. It might seem like you're taking the cowardly way out by appealing to authority rather than dealing with it yourself, but really, it's the better way.
Don't go to the manager demanding that they must deal with it in a specific way -- just tell them what the problem is, and let them find a workable solution. You can have suggestions in mind if they want them, but don't try to force them down a single solution path. Leave the solution up to them, so they can try to find the gentlest thing for granny and grandson that solves the problem, rather than necessarily going straight to whatever the nuclear option is in this case.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:50 PM on September 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
This is also really inappropriate on the kid's behalf. Tell grandma you'll report her to Child Services for bringing a 10-year-old to watch adult women changing.
posted by so_gracefully at 10:52 PM on September 30, 2009 [8 favorites]
posted by so_gracefully at 10:52 PM on September 30, 2009 [8 favorites]
I agree with so_gracefully--it's no more appropriate for the 10-year-old boy to be exposed to nude adult women than it is for the adult women to be stared at by a 10-year-old boy. The modesty standard in this case protects everyone involved. The rule is the rule. The gym needs to enforce the rule, to protect the boy, to protect the girls and adult women, to protect the general feeling that everybody involved has of feeling safe and secure within the locker room areas.
This is why the staff *exists*. Going to staff should not be seen as embarrassing. It's not about kicking the kid out of the changing room. It's about protecting everybody involved and finding a solution that works for everyone. There are a lot of possible options. The worst case scenario would be kid+grandma having to go elsewhere, but I bet there are other possibilities. Maybe he really is capable of changing on his own in with other boys. Maybe there's an employee restroom with a lock that they could use. If staff isn't made aware of this problem, staff can't deal with the problem, and if the grandmother isn't seeing the problem, nagging her about it is unlikely to help.
Don't see this as trying to get them kicked out. See it as trying to find them a way to change at the gym that isn't going to cause problems for others.
posted by larkspur at 11:21 PM on September 30, 2009 [5 favorites]
This is why the staff *exists*. Going to staff should not be seen as embarrassing. It's not about kicking the kid out of the changing room. It's about protecting everybody involved and finding a solution that works for everyone. There are a lot of possible options. The worst case scenario would be kid+grandma having to go elsewhere, but I bet there are other possibilities. Maybe he really is capable of changing on his own in with other boys. Maybe there's an employee restroom with a lock that they could use. If staff isn't made aware of this problem, staff can't deal with the problem, and if the grandmother isn't seeing the problem, nagging her about it is unlikely to help.
Don't see this as trying to get them kicked out. See it as trying to find them a way to change at the gym that isn't going to cause problems for others.
posted by larkspur at 11:21 PM on September 30, 2009 [5 favorites]
Jacquilynne and the others above are right. My gym encourages members with issues to contact the gym staff to deal with this kind of thing, to prevent member-to-member conflict and blow-ups. You will not be causing a mean, or cruel, or embarrassing situation if you nicely ask the staff to enforce the gym's own policy; you can do it without being viewed as a complaining bitch if you ask politely and ask for it to be taken care of in the most discreet way possible, without a direct confrontation in the locker room itself. The odds are very good that that it will not be the first time the staff have had to do something like this.
If the boy really needs direct supervision at all times the grandmother may need to change gyms, or change into/out of clothes at home, or find a regular bathroom in the building or ____, and that's unfortunate, but someone is going to have to be inconvenienced here and it is *not* okay for all the women/girls of the gym to be the once who have to alter their actions when they're all following the rules.
posted by charmedimsure at 11:28 PM on September 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
If the boy really needs direct supervision at all times the grandmother may need to change gyms, or change into/out of clothes at home, or find a regular bathroom in the building or ____, and that's unfortunate, but someone is going to have to be inconvenienced here and it is *not* okay for all the women/girls of the gym to be the once who have to alter their actions when they're all following the rules.
posted by charmedimsure at 11:28 PM on September 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
You say that there's no separate family changing room, but does the gym have a private changing room or bathroom for handicapped users with attendants? The grandmother and grandchild can use this room.
Alternately, the facility could make such a room for handicapped users and opposite-sex attendants, or could ask grandma to bring a male relative or friend to help the grandchild change in the mens' locker room.
posted by zippy at 11:31 PM on September 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Alternately, the facility could make such a room for handicapped users and opposite-sex attendants, or could ask grandma to bring a male relative or friend to help the grandchild change in the mens' locker room.
posted by zippy at 11:31 PM on September 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Tell grandma you'll report her to Child Services . . .
That's an awful suggestion. Ther's no indication of abuse, just some mild indication of inapapopriate behaviour. Child Services have enough brutally ugly cases on their plate without being bothered by some (relatively) frivolous thing like this, when the very people who should be handling this, the staff, have not even been approached.
posted by Neiltupper at 11:32 PM on September 30, 2009 [10 favorites]
That's an awful suggestion. Ther's no indication of abuse, just some mild indication of inapapopriate behaviour. Child Services have enough brutally ugly cases on their plate without being bothered by some (relatively) frivolous thing like this, when the very people who should be handling this, the staff, have not even been approached.
posted by Neiltupper at 11:32 PM on September 30, 2009 [10 favorites]
I'm sorry, but if she's unwilling or unable to get him to behave then she should not be taking him to the gym. I agree with Taurid, there's strength in numbers. Bring it to the attention of the manager, and don't feel bad, it's part of the job. He may be a little boy, but 10 is old enough to know better. Sheesh.
posted by moonshine at 11:44 PM on September 30, 2009
posted by moonshine at 11:44 PM on September 30, 2009
The staff's position as neutral authority is the best one to approach the grandmother, and if they haven't been alerted to the issue then they should be. They don't have to come in and boot her, but can talk to her about the issue somewhere private. That would be much less embarassing to all involved.
I would be completely squicked out by a 10-year-old ogling me, and I'm comfortable with my body. This isn't right for anyone involved - the boy shouldn't be treating this as a free peep show, the young girls don't need extra attention when they're already uncomfortable with their body, etc. The rules are there for precisely this case, when someone is making others uncomfortable by breaking them.
posted by bookdragoness at 11:44 PM on September 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
I would be completely squicked out by a 10-year-old ogling me, and I'm comfortable with my body. This isn't right for anyone involved - the boy shouldn't be treating this as a free peep show, the young girls don't need extra attention when they're already uncomfortable with their body, etc. The rules are there for precisely this case, when someone is making others uncomfortable by breaking them.
posted by bookdragoness at 11:44 PM on September 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm with Zippy -- there aren't separated handicap bathrooms or even private bathrooms down the hall or on another floor? This kid would be a handful enough if his father or grandfather were taking him into the appropriate locker room and burdening other patrons with his behavior there. If she's unwilling to cooperate and the gym has no other facilities for her to use, I'm sure they'd rather she and the boy leave before anyone else.
As far as his "condition", the boy knows what is going on around him and may even be acting out in order to seek attention from the other women. While I want to sympathize with the elderly woman because I have no idea under which circumstances it came about that she had to watch a child like this at her age, she obviously doesn't honestly care that much about anyone else around her otherwise she would have found an alternative to the locker room before this was an issue to begin with and definitely should have after other women have already tried to intervene.
posted by june made him a gemini at 12:45 AM on October 1, 2009
As far as his "condition", the boy knows what is going on around him and may even be acting out in order to seek attention from the other women. While I want to sympathize with the elderly woman because I have no idea under which circumstances it came about that she had to watch a child like this at her age, she obviously doesn't honestly care that much about anyone else around her otherwise she would have found an alternative to the locker room before this was an issue to begin with and definitely should have after other women have already tried to intervene.
posted by june made him a gemini at 12:45 AM on October 1, 2009
This is already a clearly spelled out policy and shouldn't erupt into anything else. The gym staff should ask the woman to stop bringing her grandson, and if she doesn't, revoke her membership.
Maybe there's a space in the facility (like a tanning booth type area or something) where she can change with him in tow, if she likes, but that's it. She's already been asked nicely. Now she can be asked slightly less nicely. They will lose membership if part of the deal of membership is having a ten year old boy stare at women when they're getting undressed. Holding on to the grandmother's one membership isn't a big deal.
I hate stuff like that. Just follow the rules, people! (Oldest child.)
posted by A Terrible Llama at 2:38 AM on October 1, 2009
Maybe there's a space in the facility (like a tanning booth type area or something) where she can change with him in tow, if she likes, but that's it. She's already been asked nicely. Now she can be asked slightly less nicely. They will lose membership if part of the deal of membership is having a ten year old boy stare at women when they're getting undressed. Holding on to the grandmother's one membership isn't a big deal.
I hate stuff like that. Just follow the rules, people! (Oldest child.)
posted by A Terrible Llama at 2:38 AM on October 1, 2009
Even special needs kids get horny.
I'd spell it out in no uncertain terms to the management: they will have lost custom over this, and they'll lose a whole lot more unless they find an appropriate solution.
It's not really Gran's fault. And it's not yours. If the gym wants your custom, the kid goes. If the gym wants their custom, it finds a solution to its problem.
posted by MuffinMan at 3:15 AM on October 1, 2009
I'd spell it out in no uncertain terms to the management: they will have lost custom over this, and they'll lose a whole lot more unless they find an appropriate solution.
It's not really Gran's fault. And it's not yours. If the gym wants your custom, the kid goes. If the gym wants their custom, it finds a solution to its problem.
posted by MuffinMan at 3:15 AM on October 1, 2009
Go to the manager with this: "Get that fucking boy out of the women's changing room or you can kiss our custom goodbye."
posted by turgid dahlia at 5:45 AM on October 1, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by turgid dahlia at 5:45 AM on October 1, 2009 [2 favorites]
This is a no-brainer. Go to the management. Waa-laa! Kid gone.
posted by GeniPalm at 6:11 AM on October 1, 2009
posted by GeniPalm at 6:11 AM on October 1, 2009
Mod note: few comments removed - if you can't answer this without the finger wagging, please don't, thank you
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:59 AM on October 1, 2009
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:59 AM on October 1, 2009
There seems to be a consensus here, but just in case you missed it, bring this to the attention of the management. Talk to them before the next time this happens, not while it is happening. Ask them what to do in the event it happens again. Then, whatever they say, do it.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 7:11 AM on October 1, 2009
posted by JohnnyGunn at 7:11 AM on October 1, 2009
I don't want to ask the gym manager to boot the kid out of the locker room, because I think it would be embarrassing for everyone.
Do it anyway.
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posted by General Tonic at 7:14 AM on October 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
Do it anyway.
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posted by General Tonic at 7:14 AM on October 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
Explain very clearly that having a ten year old boy staring at your breasts crosses your boundaries. Be explicit--if she does not take action to take care of this issue, you will bring it up with management. I'd phrase it like this--"I'm sorry, I'm sure your grandson is a wonderful boy and all, but he looks at me and the other women in ways that make me uncomfortable and it crosses a boundary for me. I know you know the policy here, and I don't want to have to make a fuss and bring management into this for the sake of everyone involved." Write it down if you must and look at the paper before saying it.
posted by Ironmouth at 7:32 AM on October 1, 2009
posted by Ironmouth at 7:32 AM on October 1, 2009
Why couldn't my Grandma be this cool... Sniff Sniff....
j/k
You have to look at it this way. It is the Ladies changing room and not the Mens. The kid has no right to be there. Bring it up to the grandma again and tell her that having a 10 year old boy stare at naked adult women is creeping you out and it is making Everyone very uncomfortable. If she does not do anything have management tell her to leave aka kick her out. Whatever they do at home is an adventure for child services to handle but if you are out in public you have certain rules that you must play by.
posted by Mastercheddaar at 7:35 AM on October 1, 2009
j/k
You have to look at it this way. It is the Ladies changing room and not the Mens. The kid has no right to be there. Bring it up to the grandma again and tell her that having a 10 year old boy stare at naked adult women is creeping you out and it is making Everyone very uncomfortable. If she does not do anything have management tell her to leave aka kick her out. Whatever they do at home is an adventure for child services to handle but if you are out in public you have certain rules that you must play by.
posted by Mastercheddaar at 7:35 AM on October 1, 2009
Mention this to her: would she want her 10-year-old grand-daughter in the men's room? I thought not.
posted by notsnot at 8:09 AM on October 1, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by notsnot at 8:09 AM on October 1, 2009 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks everyone. I'll stop by the managers office today. Part of my resistance to doing that was that I like to handle problems myself. Going to the manager feels sort of like snitching on the kid, but everyone is correct this is a problem for a staff member to resolve.
Great ideas too about finding an alternative changing space for the two of them. I'll mention that to the manager.
posted by 26.2 at 8:21 AM on October 1, 2009
Great ideas too about finding an alternative changing space for the two of them. I'll mention that to the manager.
posted by 26.2 at 8:21 AM on October 1, 2009
I'm fairly close to the people who run the locker room at the pool where I regularly swim. We are fortunate that there is a "visiting team" locker room that is available for parents with families. That said, sometimes people bring age-inappropriate children into the locker room for whatever reason and if a polite mention of the other locker room doesn't get them to bring their children into the proper locker room, then it's totally okay, even expected, to bring this up with gym management.
At the pool where I swim the management would absolutely want to know if someone was violating the rules of the locker room. They do not spend time in the locker room, they have no other ways of knowing if this is a problem. They have to enforce rules frequently and are usually decent about it, hopefully working with this woman and her grandson to bring about a peaceful resolution so that the women in the locker room can be comfortable and the woman and her grandson can still enjoy the facilities. This is their job. This would likely not involve them doing anything untoward while the family was there, but making a phone call and trying to work out a resolution in a non-confrontational way. If you are just barely comfortable enough to feel like speaking up, there are doubtless other people feeling the same way who might not want to speak up. If the gym does not have a family changing room or some other way where mixed-gender families can get ready for the gym or pool in privacy [for them and others] this is probably something they should be looking into for more reasons than the family situation that you describe.
posted by jessamyn at 8:23 AM on October 1, 2009
At the pool where I swim the management would absolutely want to know if someone was violating the rules of the locker room. They do not spend time in the locker room, they have no other ways of knowing if this is a problem. They have to enforce rules frequently and are usually decent about it, hopefully working with this woman and her grandson to bring about a peaceful resolution so that the women in the locker room can be comfortable and the woman and her grandson can still enjoy the facilities. This is their job. This would likely not involve them doing anything untoward while the family was there, but making a phone call and trying to work out a resolution in a non-confrontational way. If you are just barely comfortable enough to feel like speaking up, there are doubtless other people feeling the same way who might not want to speak up. If the gym does not have a family changing room or some other way where mixed-gender families can get ready for the gym or pool in privacy [for them and others] this is probably something they should be looking into for more reasons than the family situation that you describe.
posted by jessamyn at 8:23 AM on October 1, 2009
As the mother of a special needs kid, I would much, much rather hear from the manager that there was a problem than from you, especially in front of my son (and even more so if I was in the middle of changing).
The lack of a family changing room is the management's problem. You wouldn't be snitching on grandma; you would be helping the management see that they have a problem that they need to fix.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:55 AM on October 1, 2009 [8 favorites]
The lack of a family changing room is the management's problem. You wouldn't be snitching on grandma; you would be helping the management see that they have a problem that they need to fix.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:55 AM on October 1, 2009 [8 favorites]
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