Girlfriend insists on no longer meeting any other females. Is this right?
February 10, 2009 4:16 PM Subscribe
Girlfriend insists on no longer meeting any other females. Is this right?
Ok I got into this huge argument the other day.
I received a call while hanging out with her. It was a girl that wanted to hang out. One that I have known for a few months (post gf). Anyway I told the girlfriend who was on the phone and she flipped out!
She said I betrayed her and that I didn't want to be with her/love her etc. She can't believe that I gave the girl my number or that the girl had mine. The fact I talked to the girl was probably the part the upset her the most.
I told her that this girl knows I am not interested in dating her and wanted only a friendship.
Didn't matter. She is still really upset about this.
She says that I should not be making any female relationships now that I am with her.
To me this seems very strange as we have been together for 4 years and I have never cheated on her or broken her trust.
I just don't understand why having another female friend is such a huge deal.
And I really don't like the idea of my girlfriend being the only girl I ever know (she is my first and only good female relationship atm).
Im 27 so is she.
What do I do?
I am willing to not see any more girls period (to be with her). But this seems just a tad extreme to me. Am I wrong?
Ok I got into this huge argument the other day.
I received a call while hanging out with her. It was a girl that wanted to hang out. One that I have known for a few months (post gf). Anyway I told the girlfriend who was on the phone and she flipped out!
She said I betrayed her and that I didn't want to be with her/love her etc. She can't believe that I gave the girl my number or that the girl had mine. The fact I talked to the girl was probably the part the upset her the most.
I told her that this girl knows I am not interested in dating her and wanted only a friendship.
Didn't matter. She is still really upset about this.
She says that I should not be making any female relationships now that I am with her.
To me this seems very strange as we have been together for 4 years and I have never cheated on her or broken her trust.
I just don't understand why having another female friend is such a huge deal.
And I really don't like the idea of my girlfriend being the only girl I ever know (she is my first and only good female relationship atm).
Im 27 so is she.
What do I do?
I am willing to not see any more girls period (to be with her). But this seems just a tad extreme to me. Am I wrong?
You know the answer to this one already. You're not wrong. It's something you have to talk about with your gf.
posted by craven_morhead at 4:18 PM on February 10, 2009
posted by craven_morhead at 4:18 PM on February 10, 2009
It is totally unreasonable for a partner to insist on choosing the other partner's friends based on their gender.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 4:19 PM on February 10, 2009 [6 favorites]
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 4:19 PM on February 10, 2009 [6 favorites]
No, you are not wrong. This is unreasonable. You need to find out why she doesn't trust you. I'd suggest counseling, but it depends how serious your relationship is. Has she always been this controlling or is it a recent development? Four years is a long time for this not to have come up before.
posted by Joh at 4:21 PM on February 10, 2009
posted by Joh at 4:21 PM on February 10, 2009
That's pretty extreme, yeah. I'd watch your pet rabbit if I were you.
posted by dead cousin ted at 4:21 PM on February 10, 2009 [13 favorites]
posted by dead cousin ted at 4:21 PM on February 10, 2009 [13 favorites]
I'm surprised that you're willing not to see any more girls, period, just to be with her. Admittedly, four years is a long time, but this is one of those things that's worth putting up a fight against. She's trying to cow you into disregarding half of the planet, simply to soothe her neuroticism and paranoia.
She needs to get over this, and not just with regards to this specific person. If she can't figure out a way to override her insecurities with her trust in you, there are more serious problems than the remote possibility that you'd even consider cheating on her.
posted by Picklegnome at 4:23 PM on February 10, 2009
She needs to get over this, and not just with regards to this specific person. If she can't figure out a way to override her insecurities with her trust in you, there are more serious problems than the remote possibility that you'd even consider cheating on her.
posted by Picklegnome at 4:23 PM on February 10, 2009
In my experience, a lot of women will explain this away as a jealousy issue, but it is completely about control. I can guarantee that the next thing to happen will be her monitoring your phone calls, messages, and email. She will attempt to guilt you with hysterics and waterworks at every opportunity. These are all symptoms of an abusive relationship.
So no, you are not wrong.
posted by turgid dahlia at 4:24 PM on February 10, 2009 [10 favorites]
So no, you are not wrong.
posted by turgid dahlia at 4:24 PM on February 10, 2009 [10 favorites]
Speaking as a woman who has lots of straight male friends, including a few single ones, and whose husband has lots of straight female friends, including quite a few single ones (sadly, none of the former are right for the latter, otherwise we could be getting our matchmaker on)...
...your girlfriend is wrong.
So you need to talk about this, either just the two of you or with a counselor, because this is nonsense.
Or you could just dump her, but it sounds like you want to keep this relationship going.
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:26 PM on February 10, 2009
...your girlfriend is wrong.
So you need to talk about this, either just the two of you or with a counselor, because this is nonsense.
Or you could just dump her, but it sounds like you want to keep this relationship going.
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:26 PM on February 10, 2009
If she has absolutely no reason to be jealous, and you're a social person who typically hangs out with people of both genders, then she does seem to be overly insecure about this. You two just might not be the right match.
posted by cymru_j at 4:26 PM on February 10, 2009
posted by cymru_j at 4:26 PM on February 10, 2009
For what it's worth, I too believe that your girlfriend's position is extreme and unreasonable. What are you hoping to gain from that? Believe me, "fifty people agreed with me on MetaFilter" will not change her mind. Don't talk to us, talk to her. Try to figure out where this is coming from - did she learn it from her parents? Her friends? What does she imagine happening and why does she think her fears are reasonable? How can she compromise to accommodate you, in conjunction with whatever you compromise to accommodate her? Are there things short of giving up half the world that you can do to make her feel more comfortable? Can you invite these girls to group events or dinners together so that she can personally confirm that they are not threats? Etc.
posted by prefpara at 4:27 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by prefpara at 4:27 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'd cut this relationship quick. Sounds like the start to a toxic relationship.
posted by Hands of Manos at 4:31 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Hands of Manos at 4:31 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Don't give in to this in any way. If you do, pretty soon you won't even be able to look at pictures of girls in subway ads and she'll be milking your prostate and have you in a chastity belt.
posted by tehloki at 4:31 PM on February 10, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by tehloki at 4:31 PM on February 10, 2009 [4 favorites]
Sounds like she's very insecure about it, probably from being cheated on in the past or a fear of this happening. I'd say she needs to work this out with a therapist (a professional, certainly someone not you) -- the way I see it, you can either choose to stay with her as she works through this, or go on a break and make it clear that you'd like her to work it out before you get back with her.
In my experience, a lot of women will explain this away as a jealousy issue, but it is completely about control.
If you focus on the symptoms rather than the cause, you're not going to solve anything.
posted by spiderskull at 4:34 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
In my experience, a lot of women will explain this away as a jealousy issue, but it is completely about control.
If you focus on the symptoms rather than the cause, you're not going to solve anything.
posted by spiderskull at 4:34 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Well the cause is that she wants control.
posted by turgid dahlia at 4:35 PM on February 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by turgid dahlia at 4:35 PM on February 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
I was sure you'd just started dating this girl, and I could see how she'd be a little ticked that you're taking other girls' calls while on a date with her, but then I saw you'd been together for FOUR YEARS. Holy fuck. I've been with my husband for that long and he has many female friends (and I have male friends). How have you put up with this for four years? Or is this new behavior?
posted by desjardins at 4:37 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by desjardins at 4:37 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Please run.
posted by bottlebrushtree at 4:44 PM on February 10, 2009
posted by bottlebrushtree at 4:44 PM on February 10, 2009
You know it's not right, or you wouldn't be asking. Half the people in the world are female. Your girlfriend is being possessive and unreasonable.
posted by pompomtom at 4:44 PM on February 10, 2009
posted by pompomtom at 4:44 PM on February 10, 2009
Unless you are leaving something out, like my friend who sent 1,000 messages to HotOrNot.com girls during his honeymoon, yeah, that's an extreme reaction.
posted by Kirklander at 4:45 PM on February 10, 2009
posted by Kirklander at 4:45 PM on February 10, 2009
I do not thing you are wrong to have perfectly innocent conversations with women other than your GF. Like desjardin, I'm really surprised that you've been together for 4 years. Has this ever come up before? Have you never spoken to a girl in the four years you've been with your GF or was this woman different somehow? Either you gave her some reason to distrust you that you neglected to mention or there's something amiss with your GF or your relationship.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 4:46 PM on February 10, 2009
posted by otherwordlyglow at 4:46 PM on February 10, 2009
Unless you're not mentioning something like, oh, an established, documented history of wild infidelity, your girlfriend is way out of line, and is being unreasonable. And that is no basis for trust, and therefore, for a relationship. I think it's time to talk to her and find out where this is coming from.
posted by teamparka at 4:50 PM on February 10, 2009
posted by teamparka at 4:50 PM on February 10, 2009
I happen to be a girl whose friends are almost all male, in which case I'm the "other girl," the one who's supposedly working hard to steal the boys away. This jealous and insecure mentality in girls does not seem uncommon, unfortunately, so you may wonder if it's you...however, it is definitely her. She is insecure in her own skin, about someone loving her, etc. Rather than confronting that fear, by giving you and herself the freedom to try to make good, logical decisions over time, she's trying to control the freedom that she fears.
Two of my male friends have had exes who have checked their text messages and emails, given them curfews, and more besides. It's horrible. You didn't state that your girlfriend has done any of these things (yet), but these are future possibilities.
Very rarely do I advocate quick breakups, as I believe many relationships often just need a little tweaking, but you don't want to be with someone like this. If you really care for this girl, I suggest telling her (in a nice way) that how she is behaving says that she's insecure about the situation. You can ask her why that is. If she does not behave rationally, and she continues to behave this way, cut it off. Entirely. Better to be heartbroken and free, than be "loved" and chained.
You don't have to be ugly about it all, but you also can't let another person control your friendships, hours and communications, which is what someone like this will likely want eventually. Unbridled insecurities like these only grow with time.
Considering you've been in this relationship for four years (how have you survived, if it's been like this?), you may wish to seek counseling with her, rather than just washing your hands of the relationship. That should probably be the stipulation. If you want to work this out, and if she does as well, I think counseling should be the way. She obviously has some deep set insecurities if she's going crazy over your hanging out with another girl, when you've been dedicated to her for four years.
posted by metalheart at 4:53 PM on February 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
Two of my male friends have had exes who have checked their text messages and emails, given them curfews, and more besides. It's horrible. You didn't state that your girlfriend has done any of these things (yet), but these are future possibilities.
Very rarely do I advocate quick breakups, as I believe many relationships often just need a little tweaking, but you don't want to be with someone like this. If you really care for this girl, I suggest telling her (in a nice way) that how she is behaving says that she's insecure about the situation. You can ask her why that is. If she does not behave rationally, and she continues to behave this way, cut it off. Entirely. Better to be heartbroken and free, than be "loved" and chained.
You don't have to be ugly about it all, but you also can't let another person control your friendships, hours and communications, which is what someone like this will likely want eventually. Unbridled insecurities like these only grow with time.
Considering you've been in this relationship for four years (how have you survived, if it's been like this?), you may wish to seek counseling with her, rather than just washing your hands of the relationship. That should probably be the stipulation. If you want to work this out, and if she does as well, I think counseling should be the way. She obviously has some deep set insecurities if she's going crazy over your hanging out with another girl, when you've been dedicated to her for four years.
posted by metalheart at 4:53 PM on February 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
Of course its crazy. But, people are crazy. Before escalating this here is what I would say:
"Honey I understand why you'd be a little scared, since I don't usually make female friends without you knowing. Why don't you meet her? She knows all about you cuz I talk about you often, so she'd love to hang out just the three of us. We'll go get a beer at McGillicuddys, then you'll see that we're just friends. OK? Cool. Now, next time I make a woman friend you won't be so paranoid right, especially as I've never done anything to hurt your trust?"
Obviously if she continues to freak out or is rude to the friend DTMFA. But the best way to defuse the situation while testing to see if she can overcome this problem (and to make sure you really aren't being skeevy or inappropriate since all we have is your side of it), is to get them together or otherwise reassure her that you are fine and she is having a bit of the old "brain-insanity".
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:54 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
"Honey I understand why you'd be a little scared, since I don't usually make female friends without you knowing. Why don't you meet her? She knows all about you cuz I talk about you often, so she'd love to hang out just the three of us. We'll go get a beer at McGillicuddys, then you'll see that we're just friends. OK? Cool. Now, next time I make a woman friend you won't be so paranoid right, especially as I've never done anything to hurt your trust?"
Obviously if she continues to freak out or is rude to the friend DTMFA. But the best way to defuse the situation while testing to see if she can overcome this problem (and to make sure you really aren't being skeevy or inappropriate since all we have is your side of it), is to get them together or otherwise reassure her that you are fine and she is having a bit of the old "brain-insanity".
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:54 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
She's being controlling and creepy. You need to have a very serious talk with her about this, and - this is critical - be kind but don't back down about it. It's rare that everyone on here agrees about something, and you need to carry that confidence into this discussion with your girlfriend, because it sounds like she's very emotional and manipulative about the topic. It sends up all kinds of red flags to me about bigger issues, too. It's really about more than just denying yourself half (!) of the potential friendships out there, as well as preventing you from getting female input in your life from anyone but her; it's really about how much control she's allowed to have over your mind and emotions. Don't set a completely unreasonable precedent if you want this relationship to end up healthy.
It sounds like she has some pretty serious issues surrounding either trust or control, as people have said here, and spiderskull is right about it being something she needs to work out herself if you're going to move forward in your relationship. It's not your responsibility to make her happy about this, though obviously you should be sensitive and supportive if she can recognize just how unreasonable she's being and that this is something she'll need to get past. She can ask you not to cheat, and she can reasonably expect to meet and know your female friends, but she absolutely can't ask you to avoid friendships with anyone else who has dissimilar junk to your own. It's beyond the pale.
posted by you're a kitty! at 4:58 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
It sounds like she has some pretty serious issues surrounding either trust or control, as people have said here, and spiderskull is right about it being something she needs to work out herself if you're going to move forward in your relationship. It's not your responsibility to make her happy about this, though obviously you should be sensitive and supportive if she can recognize just how unreasonable she's being and that this is something she'll need to get past. She can ask you not to cheat, and she can reasonably expect to meet and know your female friends, but she absolutely can't ask you to avoid friendships with anyone else who has dissimilar junk to your own. It's beyond the pale.
posted by you're a kitty! at 4:58 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
While I don't personally subscribe to the following, my college roommate's take on it is that people don't just whoops! fall into affairs. Affairs often begin as friendships with members of the opposite sex. Once she and her husband got engaged, they decided that making new couple friends would be fine, and hanging out within a group would be fine, and hanging out with a single acquaintance (the two of them as a couple) would be fine, and hey - even spending time one on one with old MOS friends would be fine - but not developing new friendships with new MOS.
I don't think this is the right way for everyone, but it's certainly not unreasonable.
I know this contradicts the herd mentality that your girlfriend is OMG CRAZY!!! but maybe you and your girlfriend can work out a system, too.
posted by namesarehard at 5:00 PM on February 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
I don't think this is the right way for everyone, but it's certainly not unreasonable.
I know this contradicts the herd mentality that your girlfriend is OMG CRAZY!!! but maybe you and your girlfriend can work out a system, too.
posted by namesarehard at 5:00 PM on February 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
I'm guessing you're good looking. And this is common practice for a female SO if you are.
Lay down the law now before it gets out of hand.
Like a previous poster says, this behaviour does lead to other "monitoring"- checking your cell phone bill online, getting a hold of your phone and looking through all your messages and call records, calling you at work to see of you are going out with co-workers after hours, etc..
Her fear that you are interested- or actually seeing another girl usually becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Nip it in the bud, my poor sad fellow.
posted by Zambrano at 5:01 PM on February 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
Lay down the law now before it gets out of hand.
Like a previous poster says, this behaviour does lead to other "monitoring"- checking your cell phone bill online, getting a hold of your phone and looking through all your messages and call records, calling you at work to see of you are going out with co-workers after hours, etc..
Her fear that you are interested- or actually seeing another girl usually becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Nip it in the bud, my poor sad fellow.
posted by Zambrano at 5:01 PM on February 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
Namesarehard, that's fine, as long as they agree together.
Otherwise, the OP's girlfriend is asking him(?) to say to other people "look, I'm sorry I can't talk to you or have any kind of conversation with you, my girlfriend doesn't allow it".
That's not right.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 5:06 PM on February 10, 2009
Otherwise, the OP's girlfriend is asking him(?) to say to other people "look, I'm sorry I can't talk to you or have any kind of conversation with you, my girlfriend doesn't allow it".
That's not right.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 5:06 PM on February 10, 2009
Not "common practice" for significant others of attractive people. But still, yes, seconding most of the above.
posted by dreamyshade at 5:12 PM on February 10, 2009
posted by dreamyshade at 5:12 PM on February 10, 2009
There is something here you are not telling us. I know that it's fun and easy for all of the MeFi men to get their frustrations out on teh wimmins, but come ON. Do you really think that a sane 27 year old woman just suddenly grabbed his phone and said "you can't talk to any other women"?
posted by micawber at 5:24 PM on February 10, 2009 [7 favorites]
posted by micawber at 5:24 PM on February 10, 2009 [7 favorites]
You don't want to be with the type of person who regards any unsupervised contact with other people as an obvious indication of cheating.
This sort of thing isn't solely limited to paranoia about female friends of yours. She could get it into her head that any gay friends of yours are sniffing around*, or that your supposedly straight male friends are closet-cases who are also out to bed you.
*One of my friends' girlfriends, whenever him and I would go out somewhere, had the habit of chirping "Now, don't be doing anything gayyy!" It seemed like a joke a first, but it was repeated so many times that the humour wore off. Thankfully they didn't last long together.
posted by CKmtl at 5:32 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
This sort of thing isn't solely limited to paranoia about female friends of yours. She could get it into her head that any gay friends of yours are sniffing around*, or that your supposedly straight male friends are closet-cases who are also out to bed you.
*One of my friends' girlfriends, whenever him and I would go out somewhere, had the habit of chirping "Now, don't be doing anything gayyy!" It seemed like a joke a first, but it was repeated so many times that the humour wore off. Thankfully they didn't last long together.
posted by CKmtl at 5:32 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
WTF?
I'm sorry, there's either got to be more to this story or … What the fuck?
If my girlfriend said something like that, I'd laugh it off.
Of course, my girlfriend is totally awesome, and if she said something like that, she'd be joking, because what the fuck? That's crazy talkin'.
posted by klangklangston at 5:33 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry, there's either got to be more to this story or … What the fuck?
If my girlfriend said something like that, I'd laugh it off.
Of course, my girlfriend is totally awesome, and if she said something like that, she'd be joking, because what the fuck? That's crazy talkin'.
posted by klangklangston at 5:33 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
There is something here you are not telling us. I know that it's fun and easy for all of the MeFi men to get their frustrations out on teh wimmins, but come ON. Do you really think that a sane 27 year old woman just suddenly grabbed his phone and said "you can't talk to any other women"?
posted by micawber at 5:24 PM on February 10
No, I agree, but we gotta go with what he told us. Also whether he's being sketchy somehow or not the solution is still: hang out with both of them at the same time.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:37 PM on February 10, 2009
posted by micawber at 5:24 PM on February 10
No, I agree, but we gotta go with what he told us. Also whether he's being sketchy somehow or not the solution is still: hang out with both of them at the same time.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:37 PM on February 10, 2009
I'm going to go against the grain here and argue from her point of view. Try to follow it and let me know that you're wrong.
We don't know your culture, your background, or even what country you're from so I'm going to argue this from a US perspective. Based on this sentence "(she is my first and only good female relationship atm)", I'm going to take it that you don't have any female friends. In fact, I'll go so far as saying that you're probably pretty unsocial in general. You don't have many friendships and you tend not to seek others for friendship. You've been together for 4 years with your current girlfriend. She's never seen you seek friendship or intimacy with another girl. In fact, your bit about giving up female friendship for all time probably shows that you've never been friends with a girl before.
And your relationship with your girlfriend isn't great (you don't mention you love her once - just that you've been faithful to her for 4 years). There's no real mention of long term plans with your girlfriend (4 years and only a girlfriend? why not move it a long?) but you two are still together after all this time. You're willing to commit to her but not totally commit, at least not yet. And in this question, all you do is label yourself as the victim in a supposed unhealthy relationship. She's the bad guy, you're not, right? And, of course, when you first met this new girl a few months ago, you totally told your current girlfriend about her right? Right?
Yeah, you screwed up. You're a guy without female friends who, after over 4 years, decides to befriend a new girl and get her phone number. There's nothing wrong with this but you didn't bring this up to your girlfriend. In fact, your girlfriend probably sees it as if you went behind her back and got a number from a girl without her knowing. Even if that's not what you did, that's how it feels to her. You weren't above board with your girlfriend. And you've been with your girlfriend for 4 years - you're not at the point in your relationship where you can ask if something would bother her? You had to get this new girl's number even though there's a good chance you knew your girlfriend wouldn't like it? It doesn't matter if your girlfriend was wrong to begin with - you just waited too long to deal with it. And it blew up. And your girlfriend is upset about it.
I don't think this is about control - I think it has to do with fear. I think your girlfriend feels like you tried to play the field behind her back. She probably feels that there are problems in your relationship and she sees this new "friend" as an attempt by you to leave your girlfriend behind for someone else. Is her opinion valid? Maybe not - only you and her can know that for sure. But I do think that this isn't about just platonic friendships. It's about failures in your relationship that you two are acknowledging or discussing. And it's also about your failure to listen to your girlfriend and understand how she could come up with the opinion that she did. She put four years in you - I doubt she wants to just give that up or feel like she wasted her twenties. There's something more going on and you need to figure that out, communicate with her, and help alleviate your fears before you turn resentful, stubborn, and continue to not communicate with your girlfriend.
posted by Stynxno at 5:38 PM on February 10, 2009 [23 favorites]
We don't know your culture, your background, or even what country you're from so I'm going to argue this from a US perspective. Based on this sentence "(she is my first and only good female relationship atm)", I'm going to take it that you don't have any female friends. In fact, I'll go so far as saying that you're probably pretty unsocial in general. You don't have many friendships and you tend not to seek others for friendship. You've been together for 4 years with your current girlfriend. She's never seen you seek friendship or intimacy with another girl. In fact, your bit about giving up female friendship for all time probably shows that you've never been friends with a girl before.
And your relationship with your girlfriend isn't great (you don't mention you love her once - just that you've been faithful to her for 4 years). There's no real mention of long term plans with your girlfriend (4 years and only a girlfriend? why not move it a long?) but you two are still together after all this time. You're willing to commit to her but not totally commit, at least not yet. And in this question, all you do is label yourself as the victim in a supposed unhealthy relationship. She's the bad guy, you're not, right? And, of course, when you first met this new girl a few months ago, you totally told your current girlfriend about her right? Right?
Yeah, you screwed up. You're a guy without female friends who, after over 4 years, decides to befriend a new girl and get her phone number. There's nothing wrong with this but you didn't bring this up to your girlfriend. In fact, your girlfriend probably sees it as if you went behind her back and got a number from a girl without her knowing. Even if that's not what you did, that's how it feels to her. You weren't above board with your girlfriend. And you've been with your girlfriend for 4 years - you're not at the point in your relationship where you can ask if something would bother her? You had to get this new girl's number even though there's a good chance you knew your girlfriend wouldn't like it? It doesn't matter if your girlfriend was wrong to begin with - you just waited too long to deal with it. And it blew up. And your girlfriend is upset about it.
I don't think this is about control - I think it has to do with fear. I think your girlfriend feels like you tried to play the field behind her back. She probably feels that there are problems in your relationship and she sees this new "friend" as an attempt by you to leave your girlfriend behind for someone else. Is her opinion valid? Maybe not - only you and her can know that for sure. But I do think that this isn't about just platonic friendships. It's about failures in your relationship that you two are acknowledging or discussing. And it's also about your failure to listen to your girlfriend and understand how she could come up with the opinion that she did. She put four years in you - I doubt she wants to just give that up or feel like she wasted her twenties. There's something more going on and you need to figure that out, communicate with her, and help alleviate your fears before you turn resentful, stubborn, and continue to not communicate with your girlfriend.
posted by Stynxno at 5:38 PM on February 10, 2009 [23 favorites]
Yeah, you need to talk about it with her. You need to understand her point of view completely, and I think it's fair to lay down a "if you want me to cut off contact with about 50% of the world's population, I think I need to understand why."
posted by plinth at 5:48 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by plinth at 5:48 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I know that it's fun and easy for all of the MeFi men to get their frustrations out on teh wimmins, but come ON.
Uh, we're not all men.
posted by you're a kitty! at 5:53 PM on February 10, 2009 [5 favorites]
Uh, we're not all men.
posted by you're a kitty! at 5:53 PM on February 10, 2009 [5 favorites]
OK, I mostly agree that she shouldn't be doing this, but I'm going to play devil's advocate a little here.
But, first, I don't think this girl should be acting like this for her own sake. It doesn't sound to me like the OP is about to cheat on his girlfriend, and particularly not with this other woman. She can't be 100% sure about it, it's true. Everyone's a bit jealous, a bit insecure. But the way to deal with that is not to say "I forbid you from seeing other women!" cos it's counter-productive. If a guy was thinking of cheating he'll still find a way to cheat. If it hadn't occurred to him to cheat, it might well do all of a sudden given the combination of controlling girlfriend, who suddenly seems a lot less attractive, and the "forbidden friend". Cleverest and most attractive way to deal with jealousy is to hide it, be all easygoing, assume the best, don't waste time obsessing over potential cheating, but strictly and mercilessly DTMFA if cheating ever occurs, never looking back.
But, second, I'm dubious about men and women being in successful friendships when either one is in a relationship. I don't mean in some corny "such friends will inevitably want to have sex" way, though FWIW I can't imagine being friends with a woman that I wasn't attracted to in some way (I also can't imagine being friends with a guy I wasn't "attracted" to, in that I'd have to like them in some way though it'd be a liking that led to nowhere, whereas liking women sometimes - often - leads my thoughts in certain directions even where I wouldn't physically follow, being a civilised young citizen in control of my minor twitches and all that).
No, what I mean by being dubious about this idea of opposite-sex relationships being just like any other friendship is this: my girlfriends have in the past, without my batting an eyelid, done various activities with their female friends, including going dancing, swimming (sometimes naked), staying up late in each other's rooms drinking wine, sharing clothes, excessive hugging, discussing my numerous faults, going on holiday together, staying over in each other's apartments, staying over in each other's beds... and most or some or all of these would be totally unacceptable behavior with a male friend, to me, to them, and to the majority of the above posters no doubt. My girlfriends could not have done some of these things with a male friend and then said to me, "What's the big deal? He's my friend." So, you know, lines are drawn somewhere, and friends aren't all equal, and, while I think the girl in the question is being a bit stupid about drawing the line at phone calls or whatever really mild activity comes next, I don't think she's necessarily nuts. She just needs to be taught to redraw those lines. This thing can work out, with some intelligent chatting from both sides.
posted by cincinnatus c at 6:09 PM on February 10, 2009 [6 favorites]
But, first, I don't think this girl should be acting like this for her own sake. It doesn't sound to me like the OP is about to cheat on his girlfriend, and particularly not with this other woman. She can't be 100% sure about it, it's true. Everyone's a bit jealous, a bit insecure. But the way to deal with that is not to say "I forbid you from seeing other women!" cos it's counter-productive. If a guy was thinking of cheating he'll still find a way to cheat. If it hadn't occurred to him to cheat, it might well do all of a sudden given the combination of controlling girlfriend, who suddenly seems a lot less attractive, and the "forbidden friend". Cleverest and most attractive way to deal with jealousy is to hide it, be all easygoing, assume the best, don't waste time obsessing over potential cheating, but strictly and mercilessly DTMFA if cheating ever occurs, never looking back.
But, second, I'm dubious about men and women being in successful friendships when either one is in a relationship. I don't mean in some corny "such friends will inevitably want to have sex" way, though FWIW I can't imagine being friends with a woman that I wasn't attracted to in some way (I also can't imagine being friends with a guy I wasn't "attracted" to, in that I'd have to like them in some way though it'd be a liking that led to nowhere, whereas liking women sometimes - often - leads my thoughts in certain directions even where I wouldn't physically follow, being a civilised young citizen in control of my minor twitches and all that).
No, what I mean by being dubious about this idea of opposite-sex relationships being just like any other friendship is this: my girlfriends have in the past, without my batting an eyelid, done various activities with their female friends, including going dancing, swimming (sometimes naked), staying up late in each other's rooms drinking wine, sharing clothes, excessive hugging, discussing my numerous faults, going on holiday together, staying over in each other's apartments, staying over in each other's beds... and most or some or all of these would be totally unacceptable behavior with a male friend, to me, to them, and to the majority of the above posters no doubt. My girlfriends could not have done some of these things with a male friend and then said to me, "What's the big deal? He's my friend." So, you know, lines are drawn somewhere, and friends aren't all equal, and, while I think the girl in the question is being a bit stupid about drawing the line at phone calls or whatever really mild activity comes next, I don't think she's necessarily nuts. She just needs to be taught to redraw those lines. This thing can work out, with some intelligent chatting from both sides.
posted by cincinnatus c at 6:09 PM on February 10, 2009 [6 favorites]
Sounds pretty unreasonable as it is here, but like a few others above, it sounds like maybe something from the story is incomplete. People are rarely that crazy.
Offhand, I can think of a couple things that would make your GF more sane: maybe she noticed your face light up when you answered the phone or picked up on some signal you gave off. Maybe you furtively left the room to talk in private or something (not bad necessarily, but changes the timbre of the interaction somewhat).
Also, how long did you talk on the phone with this other girl? What were you doing when she called? If you and your GF were doing something special, and you changed your plans to talk with this other girl for an hour, that would significantly change all the responses here, I think.
posted by losvedir at 6:22 PM on February 10, 2009
Offhand, I can think of a couple things that would make your GF more sane: maybe she noticed your face light up when you answered the phone or picked up on some signal you gave off. Maybe you furtively left the room to talk in private or something (not bad necessarily, but changes the timbre of the interaction somewhat).
Also, how long did you talk on the phone with this other girl? What were you doing when she called? If you and your GF were doing something special, and you changed your plans to talk with this other girl for an hour, that would significantly change all the responses here, I think.
posted by losvedir at 6:22 PM on February 10, 2009
What do I do?
Sit her down, explain that you love her and want only her, but you'll be friends with who you please and you are not someone she can control or boss around. You don't sleep with other people because you don't want to, not because she doesn't allow it.
I am willing to not see any more girls period (to be with her). But this seems just a tad extreme to me. Am I wrong?
Yes. Never stop having friends because of an SO's insecurities.
That said, the story sounds odd. This is the first time this has come up in four years? Really?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:22 PM on February 10, 2009
Sit her down, explain that you love her and want only her, but you'll be friends with who you please and you are not someone she can control or boss around. You don't sleep with other people because you don't want to, not because she doesn't allow it.
I am willing to not see any more girls period (to be with her). But this seems just a tad extreme to me. Am I wrong?
Yes. Never stop having friends because of an SO's insecurities.
That said, the story sounds odd. This is the first time this has come up in four years? Really?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:22 PM on February 10, 2009
Her position is insane and unfair. Today, you might think that you're willing to cut out an entire gender from your friend pool, but that won't last and you'll resent her for it.
Try to talk this out with her. Be prepared to leave her if you can't come to some accord. Jealousy is the opposite of love and its appetite is bottomless.
posted by EatTheWeek at 6:27 PM on February 10, 2009
Try to talk this out with her. Be prepared to leave her if you can't come to some accord. Jealousy is the opposite of love and its appetite is bottomless.
posted by EatTheWeek at 6:27 PM on February 10, 2009
I'm dubious about men and women being in successful friendships when either one is in a relationship.
I am so far from understanding the whole "men and women can't be friends" meme that when I read a comment like this, it feels like I am reading a communique from another planet. Go figure--big world, lots of different ways to live in it.
On the other hand, I think Styxno makes a good point here:
You're a guy without female friends who, after over 4 years, decides to befriend a new girl and get her phone number. There's nothing wrong with this but you didn't bring this up to your girlfriend. In fact, your girlfriend probably sees it as if you went behind her back and got a number from a girl without her knowing.
This is an element that I hadn't considered, and yes, it can be surprising when people suddenly break longtime patterns. And "surprising" can be scary in relationships.
So I think it might be a really good move to invite your new girl friend to have a drink or lunch or whatever with you and your girlfriend. And at the lunch or whatever, you treat the girlfriend as a girlfriend, and the friend as a friend, and that sends the message.
Styxno's point makes me think that, as a woman who has lots of male friends, I always make a point of befriending their girlfriends or wives, and/or talking with them about their girlfriends or wives in a positive way, just to make it clear to everyone that what I am interested in is friendship.
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:41 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I am so far from understanding the whole "men and women can't be friends" meme that when I read a comment like this, it feels like I am reading a communique from another planet. Go figure--big world, lots of different ways to live in it.
On the other hand, I think Styxno makes a good point here:
You're a guy without female friends who, after over 4 years, decides to befriend a new girl and get her phone number. There's nothing wrong with this but you didn't bring this up to your girlfriend. In fact, your girlfriend probably sees it as if you went behind her back and got a number from a girl without her knowing.
This is an element that I hadn't considered, and yes, it can be surprising when people suddenly break longtime patterns. And "surprising" can be scary in relationships.
So I think it might be a really good move to invite your new girl friend to have a drink or lunch or whatever with you and your girlfriend. And at the lunch or whatever, you treat the girlfriend as a girlfriend, and the friend as a friend, and that sends the message.
Styxno's point makes me think that, as a woman who has lots of male friends, I always make a point of befriending their girlfriends or wives, and/or talking with them about their girlfriends or wives in a positive way, just to make it clear to everyone that what I am interested in is friendship.
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:41 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I don't really see your girlfriends behavior as strange, assuming you've left out/failed to take notice/be told of some other relevant factors to the story.
Given that your girlfriend didn't say no to female friends, just developing new female friends...it sounds to me like maybe she doubts the intentions of friendships formed once one of the friends is always in a relationship.
How did you meet this other girl? Perhaps it was too sudden or in a way that makes your girlfriend question or be jealous.
I would feel totally different about a female friend my boyfriend developed over time at his job than say, if he sat down one day on the bus next to a girl and went home with her number. Unfair judgment, perhaps, but friendships developed in the second way or something similar would maybe seem similar to hitting on or picking up on a girl.
Also, did you totally light up or leave the room when the other girl called, how long were you on the phone, was there any reason for the call, etc?? Realize there may have been may factors that caused your gf's reaction.
Maybe your girlfriend later realized she'd overreacted too. She probably does feel jealous or controlling but maybe she's willing to let reason and logic rule from now on, or calm her fears. I imagine lots of girls would feel a tad jealous if this same situation happened. Some, unlike probably most of the previous posters wives and gfs, may not have had the opportunity and time previously to deal appropriately with this type of thing. It sounds like it's never come up between you(or potentially with another) so give her the chance to come to her senses.
Also maybe your change in behavior (starting to form female friendships) makes her question whether it could also be a change in thinking.
In the end though, you've really just got to talk to her. Even if she doesn't budge right away, try to figure out what reasons she had for reacting like this. Give her the chance to change her reaction and thinking.
posted by nzydarkxj at 6:42 PM on February 10, 2009
Given that your girlfriend didn't say no to female friends, just developing new female friends...it sounds to me like maybe she doubts the intentions of friendships formed once one of the friends is always in a relationship.
How did you meet this other girl? Perhaps it was too sudden or in a way that makes your girlfriend question or be jealous.
I would feel totally different about a female friend my boyfriend developed over time at his job than say, if he sat down one day on the bus next to a girl and went home with her number. Unfair judgment, perhaps, but friendships developed in the second way or something similar would maybe seem similar to hitting on or picking up on a girl.
Also, did you totally light up or leave the room when the other girl called, how long were you on the phone, was there any reason for the call, etc?? Realize there may have been may factors that caused your gf's reaction.
Maybe your girlfriend later realized she'd overreacted too. She probably does feel jealous or controlling but maybe she's willing to let reason and logic rule from now on, or calm her fears. I imagine lots of girls would feel a tad jealous if this same situation happened. Some, unlike probably most of the previous posters wives and gfs, may not have had the opportunity and time previously to deal appropriately with this type of thing. It sounds like it's never come up between you(or potentially with another) so give her the chance to come to her senses.
Also maybe your change in behavior (starting to form female friendships) makes her question whether it could also be a change in thinking.
In the end though, you've really just got to talk to her. Even if she doesn't budge right away, try to figure out what reasons she had for reacting like this. Give her the chance to change her reaction and thinking.
posted by nzydarkxj at 6:42 PM on February 10, 2009
I am so far from understanding the whole "men and women can't be friends" meme that when I read a comment like this, it feels like I am reading a communique from another planet. Go figure--big world, lots of different ways to live in it.
Hey, did you even read what I wrote? I wasn't redistributing some shitty meme. I didn't say they couldn't be friends, just that, obviously, they can't be friends in the same way as same-sex friendships. In fact, you pretty much say the same thing yourself:
I always make a point of befriending their girlfriends or wives, and/or talking with them about their girlfriends or wives in a positive way, just to make it clear to everyone that what I am interested in is friendship.
I bet you don't "make a point" of meeting your female friends' boyfriends and talking about these boys "in a positive way" in order to make it "clear to everyone" that you're not interested in sex with your chums.
posted by cincinnatus c at 6:59 PM on February 10, 2009
Hey, did you even read what I wrote? I wasn't redistributing some shitty meme. I didn't say they couldn't be friends, just that, obviously, they can't be friends in the same way as same-sex friendships. In fact, you pretty much say the same thing yourself:
I always make a point of befriending their girlfriends or wives, and/or talking with them about their girlfriends or wives in a positive way, just to make it clear to everyone that what I am interested in is friendship.
I bet you don't "make a point" of meeting your female friends' boyfriends and talking about these boys "in a positive way" in order to make it "clear to everyone" that you're not interested in sex with your chums.
posted by cincinnatus c at 6:59 PM on February 10, 2009
No, what I mean by being dubious about this idea of opposite-sex relationships being just like any other friendship is this: my girlfriends have in the past, without my batting an eyelid, done various activities with their female friends, including going dancing, swimming (sometimes naked), staying up late in each other's rooms drinking wine, sharing clothes, excessive hugging, discussing my numerous faults, going on holiday together, staying over in each other's apartments, staying over in each other's beds... and most or some or all of these would be totally unacceptable behavior with a male friend, to me, to them, and to the majority of the above posters no doubt. My girlfriends could not have done some of these things with a male friend and then said to me, "What's the big deal? He's my friend."
Sorry if this is a derail, but: of course opposite-sex friendships and same-sex friendships are different. I'm not going to go into long discussions of Gossip Girl or birth control with my guy friends, and I'm also not going to sleep in a bed with them. I realize these things vary for everyone, but I would never do most of the things you listed with my platonic guy friends even when I'm single (dancing and discussing faults, maybe). I think you can have a valuable, even close friendship with the opposite sex without it turning into constant subliminal sexual tension land, but part of that is knowing what lines to draw with someone of the gender you're attracted to, and knowing not to flirt or respond to flirting in the beginning of the friendship. That's instrumental in keeping the friendship alive, not just in staying faithful to your significant other. I don't think that makes those friendships any less worthwhile than those with girls, though. There are lots of ways to platonically bond without swimming naked together.
posted by you're a kitty! at 7:05 PM on February 10, 2009
Sorry if this is a derail, but: of course opposite-sex friendships and same-sex friendships are different. I'm not going to go into long discussions of Gossip Girl or birth control with my guy friends, and I'm also not going to sleep in a bed with them. I realize these things vary for everyone, but I would never do most of the things you listed with my platonic guy friends even when I'm single (dancing and discussing faults, maybe). I think you can have a valuable, even close friendship with the opposite sex without it turning into constant subliminal sexual tension land, but part of that is knowing what lines to draw with someone of the gender you're attracted to, and knowing not to flirt or respond to flirting in the beginning of the friendship. That's instrumental in keeping the friendship alive, not just in staying faithful to your significant other. I don't think that makes those friendships any less worthwhile than those with girls, though. There are lots of ways to platonically bond without swimming naked together.
posted by you're a kitty! at 7:05 PM on February 10, 2009
Dude, don't end up a bird in a cage, receiving everything you need in a realtionship except freedom. Sure you might be loved and love her back but you need to be free.
posted by Man_in_staysis at 7:16 PM on February 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Man_in_staysis at 7:16 PM on February 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
Well here's another thought... she's bored or unhappy, but can't really put her finger on why (or knows there's not any "good" reason or doesn't want to be the "bad person" who broke your heart since she's your first LTR), so she's making a mountain out of a mole hill to stir things up... or in preparation for breaking up with you... or to get you to break up with her.
posted by carmicha at 7:25 PM on February 10, 2009
posted by carmicha at 7:25 PM on February 10, 2009
People who are in successful, committed relationships generally make some effort to avoid doing stuff that makes their partner uncomfortable. You're 27, presumably you are out of school and are working full time. It's one thing if you're at work and going out with the gang or a co-worker for lunch. It's quite another to take non-work related calls from, or go hang out with, a friend of the opposite sex, in the evening or on the weekend.
posted by txvtchick at 7:30 PM on February 10, 2009
posted by txvtchick at 7:30 PM on February 10, 2009
Ah, grasshopper, you will soon learn that those who issue ultimatums forcing you to choose between them and just about anything else, really leave you no choice at all.
But seriously, this is the second straight-people-thread today that got a big ol' WTF!? Same-sex friends are different than opposite-sex friends? Here in Gaytown we, like Dolly Parton ask, "Can't we all just get along?"
posted by greekphilosophy at 7:31 PM on February 10, 2009
But seriously, this is the second straight-people-thread today that got a big ol' WTF!? Same-sex friends are different than opposite-sex friends? Here in Gaytown we, like Dolly Parton ask, "Can't we all just get along?"
posted by greekphilosophy at 7:31 PM on February 10, 2009
Totally unreasonable, yes, but in a way she is right.
I was with a guy for a year and a half and I knew he never did anything wrong and never betrayed my trust and I always thought he could be friends with any girl he wanted to be friends with. I felt it was definitely OK with him being friends with girls he knew before me, but felt iffy about new girls he's met since he started dating me - I never said anything because I didn't want to seem like a crazy controlling girlfriend but inside I didn't like it... And my gut was right - he did end up breaking up with me to date one of the new girls he met since we were dating, and then after he broke up with her, he slept with another girl he met while him and I were dating.
So I learned that guys don't really make new friends with new girls unless they're attracted to them. Sure, they can keep their old friends because it's crazy to demand them to drop their friendships, but it seems like if it's a girl he's met after meeting the gf and he keeps hanging out with new-friend, nothing good with come of that for your current relationship.
If you're not willing to hang out with new-friend and girlfriend together at once, then girlfriend is right that you shouldn't be friends with her. If you can all hang out together then maybe girlfriend would see that it's totally harmless, and new-friend would see how much you're into the girlfriend and that she exists and the relationship is serious.
Better yet, set up new-friend with one of your buddies. Maybe girlfriend would see that you could be trusted because this would show that you're totally not interested in new-friend and then girlfriend wouldn't worry about any other girls you meet.
posted by KateHasQuestions at 7:38 PM on February 10, 2009
I was with a guy for a year and a half and I knew he never did anything wrong and never betrayed my trust and I always thought he could be friends with any girl he wanted to be friends with. I felt it was definitely OK with him being friends with girls he knew before me, but felt iffy about new girls he's met since he started dating me - I never said anything because I didn't want to seem like a crazy controlling girlfriend but inside I didn't like it... And my gut was right - he did end up breaking up with me to date one of the new girls he met since we were dating, and then after he broke up with her, he slept with another girl he met while him and I were dating.
So I learned that guys don't really make new friends with new girls unless they're attracted to them. Sure, they can keep their old friends because it's crazy to demand them to drop their friendships, but it seems like if it's a girl he's met after meeting the gf and he keeps hanging out with new-friend, nothing good with come of that for your current relationship.
If you're not willing to hang out with new-friend and girlfriend together at once, then girlfriend is right that you shouldn't be friends with her. If you can all hang out together then maybe girlfriend would see that it's totally harmless, and new-friend would see how much you're into the girlfriend and that she exists and the relationship is serious.
Better yet, set up new-friend with one of your buddies. Maybe girlfriend would see that you could be trusted because this would show that you're totally not interested in new-friend and then girlfriend wouldn't worry about any other girls you meet.
posted by KateHasQuestions at 7:38 PM on February 10, 2009
Unless there's something you're not telling, she's completely out of line.
I'd like to commend you for not laughing at her as soon as she suggested it. Because seriously if Mr. 26.2 pulled that I'd laugh until I peed my pants.
posted by 26.2 at 7:41 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'd like to commend you for not laughing at her as soon as she suggested it. Because seriously if Mr. 26.2 pulled that I'd laugh until I peed my pants.
posted by 26.2 at 7:41 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
my girlfriends have in the past, without my batting an eyelid, done various activities with their female friends, including going dancing, swimming (sometimes naked), staying up late in each other's rooms drinking wine, sharing clothes, excessive hugging, discussing my numerous faults, going on holiday together, staying over in each other's apartments, staying over in each other's beds... and most or some or all of these would be totally unacceptable behavior with a male friend, to me, to them, and to the majority of the above posters no doubt.
and
I'm not going to go into long discussions of Gossip Girl or birth control with my guy friends, and I'm also not going to sleep in a bed with them.
I have been doing most of these things with platonic male friends since I was a teenager. Any romantic partner who told me that my level of hugging with my friends was "excessive" would be unlikely to receive a hug from me again any time soon. I would end any romantic relationship with anyone who told me I couldn't be trusted to share a bed with a male friend (or that I couldn't be trusted to choose male friends who would respect platonic boundaries).
But that's me. Every person needs to decide what level of friendship they want with their platonic friends, male and female. And couples need to talk about these issues to ensure that everyone is on the same page. But if your partner is trying to take away from you something that is important to you because of a vague sense of discomfort, and if you can't talk through it, that's a huge red flag.
posted by decathecting at 7:44 PM on February 10, 2009
and
I'm not going to go into long discussions of Gossip Girl or birth control with my guy friends, and I'm also not going to sleep in a bed with them.
I have been doing most of these things with platonic male friends since I was a teenager. Any romantic partner who told me that my level of hugging with my friends was "excessive" would be unlikely to receive a hug from me again any time soon. I would end any romantic relationship with anyone who told me I couldn't be trusted to share a bed with a male friend (or that I couldn't be trusted to choose male friends who would respect platonic boundaries).
But that's me. Every person needs to decide what level of friendship they want with their platonic friends, male and female. And couples need to talk about these issues to ensure that everyone is on the same page. But if your partner is trying to take away from you something that is important to you because of a vague sense of discomfort, and if you can't talk through it, that's a huge red flag.
posted by decathecting at 7:44 PM on February 10, 2009
So I learned that guys don't really make new friends with new girls unless they're attracted to them.
Whoah. So because your particular boyfriend broke up with you for another girl, you decided to generalize that to all men, and all friendships with women? That's as nutty and wrong as anonymous's girlfriend is.
posted by ook at 8:02 PM on February 10, 2009 [14 favorites]
Whoah. So because your particular boyfriend broke up with you for another girl, you decided to generalize that to all men, and all friendships with women? That's as nutty and wrong as anonymous's girlfriend is.
posted by ook at 8:02 PM on February 10, 2009 [14 favorites]
Also, I would like to add that, regardless of semantic arguments on the comparative characteristics of male/female friendships, this really does sound like it might be a trust issue. I hope you and your girlfriend can work it out, because it will be so much healthier for you both to have friends outside the relationship, of both genders. In a past relationship, I made the mistake of letting past insecurities from ghosts of bad boyfriends make me behave as if I didn't trust someone who was wonderful and completely deserved that trust. It hurt things, and I wish I could take it back. Hindsight, right? I hope you guys can avoid the same mistake. Good luck.
posted by teamparka at 8:18 PM on February 10, 2009
posted by teamparka at 8:18 PM on February 10, 2009
Nthing that there is and may be relevant information we don't have.
When you first met the friend, did you mention as much to your GF? If not, can see how it would be unsettling because as best I can tell, you've not had female friends for four years and one appears via a call.
FWIW, a lot of (straight) people, they're sailing along with an SO, the SO has no different-sex friends and suddenly one appears via a phone call.
What was going on when the call came and how long were you on the phone.
Do you know if your GF and/or those near and dear have experienced a significant other having a friend. with whom they become romantically involved or if one or more of 'em have been the friend with whom things went further?
Does this strike you more as a blip, a one-off or has she said and done other things that reasonably suggest an unhealthy level of insecurity and need for control?
Would most people think your GF is physically really attractive, attractive, plain, somewhat attractive, not attractive?
Are there nationality (cultural) differences?
With that said, and there are some other relevant possibilities that would have a bearing on her reaction, sure, her reaction would and should concern most anyone, not that most anyone is you.
Some people can and do have serious relationships with facets a ton of people would find unacceptable.
Hard to see the loss in finding the right time and place and tone to have a conversation with your GF. If the call was the first your GF heard of the friend, feels reasonable to relate that the better choice on your part would have been to tell her about the friend from the git-go.
If the GF's view and tone do not change, up to you if you're okay with this. If so, like the weather, harder to predict things the further out one goes, but be prepared for a serious possibility that she's made the first turns of a screw and not the last.
posted by ambient2 at 9:54 PM on February 10, 2009
When you first met the friend, did you mention as much to your GF? If not, can see how it would be unsettling because as best I can tell, you've not had female friends for four years and one appears via a call.
FWIW, a lot of (straight) people, they're sailing along with an SO, the SO has no different-sex friends and suddenly one appears via a phone call.
What was going on when the call came and how long were you on the phone.
Do you know if your GF and/or those near and dear have experienced a significant other having a friend. with whom they become romantically involved or if one or more of 'em have been the friend with whom things went further?
Does this strike you more as a blip, a one-off or has she said and done other things that reasonably suggest an unhealthy level of insecurity and need for control?
Would most people think your GF is physically really attractive, attractive, plain, somewhat attractive, not attractive?
Are there nationality (cultural) differences?
With that said, and there are some other relevant possibilities that would have a bearing on her reaction, sure, her reaction would and should concern most anyone, not that most anyone is you.
Some people can and do have serious relationships with facets a ton of people would find unacceptable.
Hard to see the loss in finding the right time and place and tone to have a conversation with your GF. If the call was the first your GF heard of the friend, feels reasonable to relate that the better choice on your part would have been to tell her about the friend from the git-go.
If the GF's view and tone do not change, up to you if you're okay with this. If so, like the weather, harder to predict things the further out one goes, but be prepared for a serious possibility that she's made the first turns of a screw and not the last.
posted by ambient2 at 9:54 PM on February 10, 2009
I told her that this girl knows I am not interested in dating her and wanted only a friendship.
Are you attracted to this woman? Are you? Ask yourself honestly, because maybe your girlfriend heard something in your voice or saw something in the way you acted that legitimately worried her.
Maybe she wonders what you will do together. Go to dinner? A movie? Something datey? She can't imagine what you + a girl could do together because it's never been an issue before. Maybe you need to arrange some sort of group activity that could accommodate the men and women you both know so she can get comfortable with the idea.
posted by idle at 12:52 AM on February 11, 2009
Are you attracted to this woman? Are you? Ask yourself honestly, because maybe your girlfriend heard something in your voice or saw something in the way you acted that legitimately worried her.
Maybe she wonders what you will do together. Go to dinner? A movie? Something datey? She can't imagine what you + a girl could do together because it's never been an issue before. Maybe you need to arrange some sort of group activity that could accommodate the men and women you both know so she can get comfortable with the idea.
posted by idle at 12:52 AM on February 11, 2009
So I learned that guys don't really make new friends with new girls unless they're attracted to them.
Don't listen to this. Just because one man acted that way doesn't mean it's true of all men.
I definitely agree there's a backstory here, but I disagree that it should be relevant to whether the OP "complies" with his girlfriend's new rules.
It's ridiculous. If she really has reason not to trust him, he'll just sneak around anyway. If she has no reason not to trust him, it's an unfair restriction.
posted by miss tea at 4:04 AM on February 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
Don't listen to this. Just because one man acted that way doesn't mean it's true of all men.
I definitely agree there's a backstory here, but I disagree that it should be relevant to whether the OP "complies" with his girlfriend's new rules.
It's ridiculous. If she really has reason not to trust him, he'll just sneak around anyway. If she has no reason not to trust him, it's an unfair restriction.
posted by miss tea at 4:04 AM on February 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
I once had a girlfriend who did this.
You will notice that the previous sentence is in the past tense.
In retrospect, every bad thing that followed in what quickly became a toxic relationship could have been extrapolated perfectly from the first snippy 'why are you hanging out with HER?' comment she lobbed at me, and it is only my naivete that I can blame for not having warning bells go off. I can tell you what's in store for you, but I suspect you have a pretty good idea. It is behavior predicated on her distrust of you, tied closely with deep insecurity on her part. Neither of those issues is easily fixed, and the grab-bag of crazy that awaits you will shock and amaze you as it consumes your life. This is one of those rare times where I will unequivocally advise running away as quickly as possible.
posted by Mayor West at 5:02 AM on February 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
You will notice that the previous sentence is in the past tense.
In retrospect, every bad thing that followed in what quickly became a toxic relationship could have been extrapolated perfectly from the first snippy 'why are you hanging out with HER?' comment she lobbed at me, and it is only my naivete that I can blame for not having warning bells go off. I can tell you what's in store for you, but I suspect you have a pretty good idea. It is behavior predicated on her distrust of you, tied closely with deep insecurity on her part. Neither of those issues is easily fixed, and the grab-bag of crazy that awaits you will shock and amaze you as it consumes your life. This is one of those rare times where I will unequivocally advise running away as quickly as possible.
posted by Mayor West at 5:02 AM on February 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
I doubt that you're going to break up with your girlfriend based on what strangers on the internet say, but please-- get the hell out now, while the getting's good.
posted by dunkadunc at 5:42 AM on February 11, 2009
posted by dunkadunc at 5:42 AM on February 11, 2009
Seems like the context is important here and we can reconcile a number of the different positions taken by posters. I would say this:
1) It is UNREASONABLE for anyone to think they can control who their partner's friends are, full stop.
2) It is UNREASONABLE for your gf to demand that you can never have any female friends now that you are seeing her.
3) It is not unreasonable, however, that she might be a little miffed and suspicious that you exchanged phone #s with some other girl (at a party?) without mentioning it to her until that new girl decided to call you.
4) It is not unreasonable to admit that the boundaries between same-sex and and opposite-sex friends (amongst heterosexuals) are different, especially when in a relationship.
5) It is not unreasonable for couples to conclude that making new single friends of the opposite sex while in a relationship is fine, but that certain activities are with those new friends are not -- time alone in their apartment, for example.
You need to figure out where you and your gf stand in relation to all these issues, and sort them out. She might be nutso crazy and controlling, but she might just also be thinking WTF is my boyfriend doing giving his number to a girl he met at a party? It's a different context than eating lunch with a new co-worker, and it's silly to pretend that this is an all or nothing distinction between total control and total freedom.
posted by modernnomad at 6:20 AM on February 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
1) It is UNREASONABLE for anyone to think they can control who their partner's friends are, full stop.
2) It is UNREASONABLE for your gf to demand that you can never have any female friends now that you are seeing her.
3) It is not unreasonable, however, that she might be a little miffed and suspicious that you exchanged phone #s with some other girl (at a party?) without mentioning it to her until that new girl decided to call you.
4) It is not unreasonable to admit that the boundaries between same-sex and and opposite-sex friends (amongst heterosexuals) are different, especially when in a relationship.
5) It is not unreasonable for couples to conclude that making new single friends of the opposite sex while in a relationship is fine, but that certain activities are with those new friends are not -- time alone in their apartment, for example.
You need to figure out where you and your gf stand in relation to all these issues, and sort them out. She might be nutso crazy and controlling, but she might just also be thinking WTF is my boyfriend doing giving his number to a girl he met at a party? It's a different context than eating lunch with a new co-worker, and it's silly to pretend that this is an all or nothing distinction between total control and total freedom.
posted by modernnomad at 6:20 AM on February 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
You've been together for four years, I assume this is a new problem or you wouldn't be so surprised by it. So my question is: what has changed? Is she going through something that's making her feel insecure? Has something changed in your relationship? Does she have needs that are not being met in the relationship?
In my experience, jealousy and the desire for greater control over your significant other is usually a symptom of feeling insecure about the relationship in some way. If you can address these feelings of insecurity by talking to her about it, figuring out what's going on, and taking steps to help her feel better, then the jealousy will fade. This jealousy seems quite extreme so don't count on this being a quick or easy process, but if you're up for it I sincerely believe it's possible.
If she isn't willing to work through it with you though, your relationship is doomed. This kind of reaction from her just is not something you should have to put up with long-term. Either fix it or get out.
posted by mai at 7:55 AM on February 11, 2009
In my experience, jealousy and the desire for greater control over your significant other is usually a symptom of feeling insecure about the relationship in some way. If you can address these feelings of insecurity by talking to her about it, figuring out what's going on, and taking steps to help her feel better, then the jealousy will fade. This jealousy seems quite extreme so don't count on this being a quick or easy process, but if you're up for it I sincerely believe it's possible.
If she isn't willing to work through it with you though, your relationship is doomed. This kind of reaction from her just is not something you should have to put up with long-term. Either fix it or get out.
posted by mai at 7:55 AM on February 11, 2009
So I learned that guys don't really make new friends with new girls unless they're attracted to them. ...
No. People make friends with people they like, for all sorts of reasons. I don't think you learned the right lesson from your experience.
As for the OP, this reaction is crazy-ass-crazy. I suspect there is more to the story then what's in this Ask.Mefi. That said, this reaction is something you need to sort out with your girlfriend. Getting confirmation her ass is crazy isn't going to really help you in any way whatsoever.
posted by chunking express at 9:02 AM on February 11, 2009
No. People make friends with people they like, for all sorts of reasons. I don't think you learned the right lesson from your experience.
As for the OP, this reaction is crazy-ass-crazy. I suspect there is more to the story then what's in this Ask.Mefi. That said, this reaction is something you need to sort out with your girlfriend. Getting confirmation her ass is crazy isn't going to really help you in any way whatsoever.
posted by chunking express at 9:02 AM on February 11, 2009
My fiancee made similar demands. I acquiesced at the time, just to keep the peace.
It didn't help. Soon she was saying that I wanted to sleep with my sisters.
That's when she became my ex-fiancee, having wasted a year of my life and £6k in the meantime.
Don't make the same mistake.
posted by almostwitty at 9:14 AM on February 11, 2009
It didn't help. Soon she was saying that I wanted to sleep with my sisters.
That's when she became my ex-fiancee, having wasted a year of my life and £6k in the meantime.
Don't make the same mistake.
posted by almostwitty at 9:14 AM on February 11, 2009
I would not stay in a relationship like this no matter how long it had been going on up to the point when I was forbidden with hanging out with 50% of humans.
posted by solipsophistocracy at 11:21 AM on February 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by solipsophistocracy at 11:21 AM on February 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
Your girlfriend is a manipulative control freak. This is just the beginning of Your Life In Hell. Run away.
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 11:39 AM on February 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 11:39 AM on February 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
I bet you don't "make a point" of meeting your female friends' boyfriends and talking about these boys "in a positive way" in order to make it "clear to everyone" that you're not interested in sex with your chums.
I make it a point of meeting my bi and lesbian friends' partners in the same way, actually, due to bi myself.
My straight female friends, no. My gay male friends, no.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:06 PM on February 11, 2009
I make it a point of meeting my bi and lesbian friends' partners in the same way, actually, due to bi myself.
My straight female friends, no. My gay male friends, no.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:06 PM on February 11, 2009
I agree with most of the coments here. Assuming you haven't done anything to cause this, like cheating (even if she doesn't actually know), then she is out of line.
I think the most likely scenerio is someone is/was cheating. Possibly one of her friends or their boyfriend cheated or maybe she cheated. She could be paranoid after something happened to one of her friends or projecting out of guilt/fear that you will do the same thing she did.
posted by thekiltedwonder at 6:43 PM on February 11, 2009
I think the most likely scenerio is someone is/was cheating. Possibly one of her friends or their boyfriend cheated or maybe she cheated. She could be paranoid after something happened to one of her friends or projecting out of guilt/fear that you will do the same thing she did.
posted by thekiltedwonder at 6:43 PM on February 11, 2009
I think thats a bit much.. If you care about the girl, i would spend some time going out of my way to ensure to her that these people are only friends. she may have had some difficult experiences in the past and has trouble trusting. But in any case it seems 1. a bit early for her to say stuff like that and 2. a bit over reaching.
posted by sav at 3:12 PM on February 12, 2009
posted by sav at 3:12 PM on February 12, 2009
What bothers me about her rule against your having female friends is this: it's completely Taliban. The belief that men and women cannot interact without it being a sexual act underlies all the societies in the world where women are oppressed. Why make her wear a veil? So no other men can look at her. Why can't she have a job? Because she might talk to men. Why can't she leave the house? Well... she'd fuck someone, right? Because inside we're all just dirty, dirty fuck machines, incapable of thinking about anything else, incapable of commitment, totally untrustworthy and interested in only one thing.
I cannot stand moralistic folks who claim to be pious and pure but whose worldviews are seething with lascivious doubts. People who proscribe only the most very proper behavior, not because they themselves are pure, but because they see a glistening erection throbbing behind every pair of pants.
You don't have to put up with being sexualized in this way. There is nothing right or superior or "just normal" about her views. She's deeply insecure and you need to take care of her feelings. You sound willing and able to do so. But you came here to ask if her demands were reasonable, and I'm agreeing with everyone who says they absolutely are not. Believe me, you haven't heard the last of this issue. Soon it will be suspicions about you and some woman you work with. Or suspicions about you and one of her female friends.
Trust is definitely lacking in the relationship, which you probably bear at least some responsibility for. Explore that question and you'll make progress where it counts. No female friends is just a red herring.
posted by scarabic at 11:48 PM on February 12, 2009 [1 favorite]
I cannot stand moralistic folks who claim to be pious and pure but whose worldviews are seething with lascivious doubts. People who proscribe only the most very proper behavior, not because they themselves are pure, but because they see a glistening erection throbbing behind every pair of pants.
You don't have to put up with being sexualized in this way. There is nothing right or superior or "just normal" about her views. She's deeply insecure and you need to take care of her feelings. You sound willing and able to do so. But you came here to ask if her demands were reasonable, and I'm agreeing with everyone who says they absolutely are not. Believe me, you haven't heard the last of this issue. Soon it will be suspicions about you and some woman you work with. Or suspicions about you and one of her female friends.
Trust is definitely lacking in the relationship, which you probably bear at least some responsibility for. Explore that question and you'll make progress where it counts. No female friends is just a red herring.
posted by scarabic at 11:48 PM on February 12, 2009 [1 favorite]
Before dismissing her as Crazy-Ass-Crazy, take a minute to consider her worries. It doesn't sound like a pattern for her (once in 4 years), and I'm inclined to agree with lovesdir that something, perhaps non-verbal, triggered her defensiveness.
It's reasonable to be informed about the male OR female friends of your bf/gf. If you met a new guy friend and began hanging out with him and speaking on the phone, is that the kind of thing you would discuss with your gf? If it is, ask yourself why you didn't discuss your new female friend that very day. Why was your gf surprised? Why did it take a few months and an external event (SHE called YOU during couple time) before the reveal?
Keeping little secrets is a good self-evaluation tool that there is perhaps more there. While not every secret friendship becomes something more, most "something mores" started as a secret friendship.
I think this is less a question of the semantics of "should opposite-sex friends be okay in a relationship," and more an issue of doing the introspection if this female friend is exciting in that New Love way. If there is an inkling of special feelings, and you are happy with your gf, the disciplined thing to do is to restrict your access to the new friend.
If you honestly find there are no feelings there, endeavor to be very honest with your gf regarding your friends, be patient with her while she tries to heal from this hurt, and ask from her that she work on overcoming her suspicions.
posted by degrees_of_freedom at 9:39 AM on February 16, 2009
It's reasonable to be informed about the male OR female friends of your bf/gf. If you met a new guy friend and began hanging out with him and speaking on the phone, is that the kind of thing you would discuss with your gf? If it is, ask yourself why you didn't discuss your new female friend that very day. Why was your gf surprised? Why did it take a few months and an external event (SHE called YOU during couple time) before the reveal?
Keeping little secrets is a good self-evaluation tool that there is perhaps more there. While not every secret friendship becomes something more, most "something mores" started as a secret friendship.
I think this is less a question of the semantics of "should opposite-sex friends be okay in a relationship," and more an issue of doing the introspection if this female friend is exciting in that New Love way. If there is an inkling of special feelings, and you are happy with your gf, the disciplined thing to do is to restrict your access to the new friend.
If you honestly find there are no feelings there, endeavor to be very honest with your gf regarding your friends, be patient with her while she tries to heal from this hurt, and ask from her that she work on overcoming her suspicions.
posted by degrees_of_freedom at 9:39 AM on February 16, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 4:18 PM on February 10, 2009 [15 favorites]