Working in Afghanistan
November 3, 2008 5:14 AM Subscribe
WorkingInMiddleEastFilter: So ive been offered a job in Afghanistan at one of the FOB's (Forward Operating Base) there but i know little to nothing about working over there. The money is great however and my family could use the $ to help pay off some bills. The contract is 4month on 2 weeks off. They stress that it is very dangerous work, and just to clarify i will be doing IT work. I have a wife and two small children, 6 and 2 so i have to weigh in what it would be like to leave them for this time also. Can anyone offer any insight to what it may be like? Is it really that dangerous? Anyone with first hand experience?
What's more likely than being shot is being kidnapped. Foreign workers can fetch handsome ransoms.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:38 AM on November 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:38 AM on November 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Your call, but do you really want to yourself on your knees in from of some highly motivated dude with an AK-47 trying to tell him in broken Pashtu or Dari that you've got two kids and a wife that'll be really upset if you die?
And in any case, before you decide, read this blog: http://www.michaelyon-online.com/
posted by paanta at 5:40 AM on November 3, 2008
And in any case, before you decide, read this blog: http://www.michaelyon-online.com/
posted by paanta at 5:40 AM on November 3, 2008
Also, this warning was issued recently (a week ago) and might be of interest to you.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:41 AM on November 3, 2008
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:41 AM on November 3, 2008
I suggest watching Frontline's "The War Briefing". Those FOBs are pretty hairy from what I've heard. All indications are that Afghanistan is primed to get worse this winter.
posted by IvoShandor at 5:42 AM on November 3, 2008
posted by IvoShandor at 5:42 AM on November 3, 2008
My father flew twice a month for work when I was six, and I was terrified of airplane crashes back then. Your six year old is possibly old enough to understand where you'll be and be very, very afraid. If your wife doesn't have the steely temperament of a service spouse every time bad news on Afghanistan rolls onto the news, your kids will pick up on that too. None of you will have the support available to military families if things go pear-shaped, nor the grim consolation that you are a warrior "serving his country."
What does your wife think about the risk-to-benefits ratio? Could you just pick up a part time or freelance shift stateside to supplement a full-time income instead?
posted by availablelight at 5:47 AM on November 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
What does your wife think about the risk-to-benefits ratio? Could you just pick up a part time or freelance shift stateside to supplement a full-time income instead?
posted by availablelight at 5:47 AM on November 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Great money == Great danger.
Don't be a fool and get killed for a paycheck.
posted by unixrat at 6:50 AM on November 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Don't be a fool and get killed for a paycheck.
posted by unixrat at 6:50 AM on November 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Is there a job opening because the guy before you quit, his time up, was killed, was kidnapped or there is simply more work?
posted by JohnnyGunn at 7:17 AM on November 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 7:17 AM on November 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
This is probably not worth it. I have a friend who has born in Afghanistan, who majored in politics and got his MA in Int'l Relations to aid his war-torn homeland. He is deeply passionate about it. And he will not go back for love or money. The situation there is bad and it is about to get worse.
I'm not sure what the pay jump is- I'm certain it's good- but there is enormous danger here. Get a weekend job, pick up an evening shift, but stay home. Your kids and your wife will thank you.
posted by GilloD at 7:38 AM on November 3, 2008
I'm not sure what the pay jump is- I'm certain it's good- but there is enormous danger here. Get a weekend job, pick up an evening shift, but stay home. Your kids and your wife will thank you.
posted by GilloD at 7:38 AM on November 3, 2008
I would find out more information about that FOB in particular. How big is it? If you're doing IT work there, I imagine it isn't just a platoon of soldiers defending some sandbags. The bigger it is, the less likely it'll be 'overrun'. If you're staying on that base the whole time, you're in relatively less danger than if you are, say, on the road going to other FOBs all the time.
Google the FOB and see if it's made the news lately. Or look for it on a map of Afghanistan and see what else has been going on in the surrounding area.
Whether or not it's safe enough or worth it (or whatever) for you to go there is a call I don't think anyone but you and your wife can make.
Now I'm coming from a different perspective here - my fiance is in Afghanistan, but in the military - but dealing with the separation is tough. And the fact that we don't have any children makes this about 1000x easier for me, from what I've observed of my friends and other military families.
Make damn sure your wife is all right with being the main/sole parent for 4 months. And taking care of the house, the bills, the car, etc. on her own. Afghanistan is 9.5 hours ahead of the east coast, so phone calls (or skype or IMing etc) are always inconvenient for someone. Reading about Bad Stuff that's happening in Afghanistan while someone you love is there is not easy. Not having your partner to talk to whenever you want sucks. No sex for X months sucks. And so on. Make sure she's okay with all of that, because IMO it's very easy for resentment to foster.
The other thing about civilian work is that you can quit if you change your mind.
posted by lullaby at 8:31 AM on November 3, 2008
Google the FOB and see if it's made the news lately. Or look for it on a map of Afghanistan and see what else has been going on in the surrounding area.
Whether or not it's safe enough or worth it (or whatever) for you to go there is a call I don't think anyone but you and your wife can make.
Now I'm coming from a different perspective here - my fiance is in Afghanistan, but in the military - but dealing with the separation is tough. And the fact that we don't have any children makes this about 1000x easier for me, from what I've observed of my friends and other military families.
Make damn sure your wife is all right with being the main/sole parent for 4 months. And taking care of the house, the bills, the car, etc. on her own. Afghanistan is 9.5 hours ahead of the east coast, so phone calls (or skype or IMing etc) are always inconvenient for someone. Reading about Bad Stuff that's happening in Afghanistan while someone you love is there is not easy. Not having your partner to talk to whenever you want sucks. No sex for X months sucks. And so on. Make sure she's okay with all of that, because IMO it's very easy for resentment to foster.
The other thing about civilian work is that you can quit if you change your mind.
posted by lullaby at 8:31 AM on November 3, 2008
The likelihood of encountering danger in Afghanistan varies greatly based upon a few factors:
a) which province you are in;
b) time of year; and
c) how and how often you get around.
The North of Afghanistan has a very light Taliban presence, and as a result there are a lot less casualties there. That's one of the reasons why Germany refuses to leave that area.
The South, which borders Pakistan, has a much larger and persistent Taliban presence, and as a result casualties are much higher. The Canadians and the Americans are down there.
The North East is probably the safest place, with the South West being the most dangerous.
In the winter months the Taliban regroups and resupplies by crossing the border into Pakistan. As a result of this there is a serious decrease in activity, and the spring campaigns can be quite harsh, although it varies, depending on how preemptive NATO is.
As far as safety and routine. Find out how you would be transported there. If you get to ryou
FOB by helicopter (Chinook most likely) then your risk is relatively low, and you'll just stay in the FOB, with incoming artillery/mortar alarms regularly (spending a few hours in a concrete bunker until all clear), probably a few times a week. As long as you stay in the FOB you'll be fine, I don't think any have been overrun yet. You'll want to avoid commuting at all costs, once every four months sounds more than enough to me. Think of what that means as a consequence.
If on the other hand your transportation to the FOB is by convoy, then I suggest you look for another job, 'cause that's where all the deaths happen, through roadside bombs on convoys.
What about Kabul? Its a very bad place to be as a foreigner. Being stationed there would be sketchy at best, and unless you had an armed escort, I wouldn't risk playing tourist there.
Good luck, it can definitely be easy money and a real eye opening experience spending time in an FOB, but it's not something for everyone.
posted by furtive at 8:36 AM on November 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
a) which province you are in;
b) time of year; and
c) how and how often you get around.
The North of Afghanistan has a very light Taliban presence, and as a result there are a lot less casualties there. That's one of the reasons why Germany refuses to leave that area.
The South, which borders Pakistan, has a much larger and persistent Taliban presence, and as a result casualties are much higher. The Canadians and the Americans are down there.
The North East is probably the safest place, with the South West being the most dangerous.
In the winter months the Taliban regroups and resupplies by crossing the border into Pakistan. As a result of this there is a serious decrease in activity, and the spring campaigns can be quite harsh, although it varies, depending on how preemptive NATO is.
As far as safety and routine. Find out how you would be transported there. If you get to ryou
FOB by helicopter (Chinook most likely) then your risk is relatively low, and you'll just stay in the FOB, with incoming artillery/mortar alarms regularly (spending a few hours in a concrete bunker until all clear), probably a few times a week. As long as you stay in the FOB you'll be fine, I don't think any have been overrun yet. You'll want to avoid commuting at all costs, once every four months sounds more than enough to me. Think of what that means as a consequence.
If on the other hand your transportation to the FOB is by convoy, then I suggest you look for another job, 'cause that's where all the deaths happen, through roadside bombs on convoys.
What about Kabul? Its a very bad place to be as a foreigner. Being stationed there would be sketchy at best, and unless you had an armed escort, I wouldn't risk playing tourist there.
Good luck, it can definitely be easy money and a real eye opening experience spending time in an FOB, but it's not something for everyone.
posted by furtive at 8:36 AM on November 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Are the debts to a man called Fat Tony? If not then stay home.
posted by fullerine at 9:27 AM on November 3, 2008
posted by fullerine at 9:27 AM on November 3, 2008
As a parent who finds it hard when her husband simply goes away on business for a week or two, I think you're putting your family under a lot of stress and yourself in a lot of danger. Consider doing consulting from home. You'll be able to write off business use of home and other relevant expenses and you may be able to build up something that will see you through hard times and any other situations. In the meantime, perhaps you can negotiate with your lenders or something.
posted by acoutu at 9:54 AM on November 3, 2008
posted by acoutu at 9:54 AM on November 3, 2008
I have two acquaintances who have been based in Kabul for the past year or so (one works in foreign aid, the other for the BBC). They have both recently pulled out due to the increasing danger. Now doesn't seem to be the best time to venture into Afghanistan.
posted by meerkatty at 10:14 AM on November 3, 2008
posted by meerkatty at 10:14 AM on November 3, 2008
Something else to chew on (Asia Times):
The Taliban have shown unprecedented resilience and the scope of the battlefield has broadened from the border provinces with Pakistan to the main urban centers of Afghanistan. Whether it is newly formed American bases in Nuristan and Khost provinces, or the British base in Lashkar Gah, they have either been overrun or placed under constant siege by the Taliban.
Now, the strategic backyard of the "war on terror", Pakistan, is feeling the heat. Just as Kabul is under siege by the Taliban and communication links leading to Kabul have been disrupted by the Taliban, Islamabad is under siege by the Taliban and militants in the tribal areas on the border with Afghanistan.
And the Economist, "Defeatism in Afghanistan: a surge of pessimism:"
THE Taliban have been brave and brazen this fighting season. They have used more “asymmetric” tactics, such as suicide bombings, but have not shied away from direct combat. In July, they tried to overrun a new American outpost in Nuristan province, killing nine Americans. In August, they attempted to fight their way into a big American base outside Khost, a town that for a year had been a model of stability. Earlier this month they made a three-pronged stab at Lashkar Gah, the capital of Helmand province.
All these attacks were repelled. But despite heavy losses for the insurgents, they sent a powerful message: the Taliban are getting stronger and areas once deemed safe are under threat. Provinces around Kabul are more violent and roads leading out of the capital are frequently cut off. Though there are fewer bomb attacks than a year ago, the capital feels besieged, prompting some to recall the days when the anti-Communist mujahideen moved to take over the city in 1992, and again when the Taliban rode in four years later.
posted by zippy at 10:33 AM on November 3, 2008
The Taliban have shown unprecedented resilience and the scope of the battlefield has broadened from the border provinces with Pakistan to the main urban centers of Afghanistan. Whether it is newly formed American bases in Nuristan and Khost provinces, or the British base in Lashkar Gah, they have either been overrun or placed under constant siege by the Taliban.
Now, the strategic backyard of the "war on terror", Pakistan, is feeling the heat. Just as Kabul is under siege by the Taliban and communication links leading to Kabul have been disrupted by the Taliban, Islamabad is under siege by the Taliban and militants in the tribal areas on the border with Afghanistan.
And the Economist, "Defeatism in Afghanistan: a surge of pessimism:"
THE Taliban have been brave and brazen this fighting season. They have used more “asymmetric” tactics, such as suicide bombings, but have not shied away from direct combat. In July, they tried to overrun a new American outpost in Nuristan province, killing nine Americans. In August, they attempted to fight their way into a big American base outside Khost, a town that for a year had been a model of stability. Earlier this month they made a three-pronged stab at Lashkar Gah, the capital of Helmand province.
All these attacks were repelled. But despite heavy losses for the insurgents, they sent a powerful message: the Taliban are getting stronger and areas once deemed safe are under threat. Provinces around Kabul are more violent and roads leading out of the capital are frequently cut off. Though there are fewer bomb attacks than a year ago, the capital feels besieged, prompting some to recall the days when the anti-Communist mujahideen moved to take over the city in 1992, and again when the Taliban rode in four years later.
posted by zippy at 10:33 AM on November 3, 2008
nthing the "they are dangerous". One of my best friends was/is stationed at a FOB with the British Commandos. He said every single night without fail they are shelled. In his words "luckily for us, they are bad shots".
Either way, stay home, pick up a second job to offset the salary you are giving up. Stay with your wife and kids man because what else matters?
posted by birdlips at 11:46 AM on November 3, 2008
Either way, stay home, pick up a second job to offset the salary you are giving up. Stay with your wife and kids man because what else matters?
posted by birdlips at 11:46 AM on November 3, 2008
"very dangerous"
Explore the consequences of your death with your wife. Will she be able
to afford to live where she is living? What are the consequences to her
and your children? Perhaps your death means instant economic ruin for
them.
Plan for the worst. Put your affairs in order, make sure that your will
is up to date. Make sure that any insurance policies you have will pay
out in the event you are killed by accident. Find out how your policies
work in foreign countries or during acts of war. You might see if you can
get any kind of policy that will pay for your care in case you are too
damaged to work, but too healthy to die.
You might also make sure that you have made your wishes known, in
writing, in admissable form, about who you want to make medical
decisions for you in the event you are unable to express those wishes
yourself.
Talk to some of your friends or relatives, so that they can be on hand
to help your wife and children if you are killed.
posted by the Real Dan at 12:25 PM on November 3, 2008
Explore the consequences of your death with your wife. Will she be able
to afford to live where she is living? What are the consequences to her
and your children? Perhaps your death means instant economic ruin for
them.
Plan for the worst. Put your affairs in order, make sure that your will
is up to date. Make sure that any insurance policies you have will pay
out in the event you are killed by accident. Find out how your policies
work in foreign countries or during acts of war. You might see if you can
get any kind of policy that will pay for your care in case you are too
damaged to work, but too healthy to die.
You might also make sure that you have made your wishes known, in
writing, in admissable form, about who you want to make medical
decisions for you in the event you are unable to express those wishes
yourself.
Talk to some of your friends or relatives, so that they can be on hand
to help your wife and children if you are killed.
posted by the Real Dan at 12:25 PM on November 3, 2008
I work for a company that has a project in Afghanistan. Quite a few staff from my office have spent periods of time there - to date, I have refused to go (I have traveled to a number of other places on the 'do not travel' list such as Sudan).
When one of the things I would have to provide to the HR department is my 'proof of life' question (eg. what they will ask kidnappers to confirm if it is really you being held and that you are alive), I feel it isn't the right thing for me to do. Whenever I hear of a foreigner being killed, I immediately think of my colleagues there. I think it would be a great strain if it was my family, and even more so if it was the father of my children.
I do support my colleagues who are happy to go there - but none of them have young families. In my work, we often see families split across countries because of the money, or the interesting work. Even without the constant worry of someone being killed, this has an enormous strain on families and relationships - so you are right to consider this as much as the safety.
Clearly many people do go and work in Afghanistan and are not killed - the odds are that you'll be ok. But you get paid good money for a reason. There is a big difference between the money being helpful and being necessary. If the main temptation for you to take the job is related to money, I suggest your next AskMe question should be looking at alternative ways to sort out your finances.
If you do go, pay attention to all the security information you are given. If you feel like you are becoming complacent about safety and security, it is time to go home.
As far as current events goes, be aware that the election is planned for April/May 2009, and so the security situation is predicted to deteriorate further.
posted by AnnaRat at 3:52 PM on November 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
When one of the things I would have to provide to the HR department is my 'proof of life' question (eg. what they will ask kidnappers to confirm if it is really you being held and that you are alive), I feel it isn't the right thing for me to do. Whenever I hear of a foreigner being killed, I immediately think of my colleagues there. I think it would be a great strain if it was my family, and even more so if it was the father of my children.
I do support my colleagues who are happy to go there - but none of them have young families. In my work, we often see families split across countries because of the money, or the interesting work. Even without the constant worry of someone being killed, this has an enormous strain on families and relationships - so you are right to consider this as much as the safety.
Clearly many people do go and work in Afghanistan and are not killed - the odds are that you'll be ok. But you get paid good money for a reason. There is a big difference between the money being helpful and being necessary. If the main temptation for you to take the job is related to money, I suggest your next AskMe question should be looking at alternative ways to sort out your finances.
If you do go, pay attention to all the security information you are given. If you feel like you are becoming complacent about safety and security, it is time to go home.
As far as current events goes, be aware that the election is planned for April/May 2009, and so the security situation is predicted to deteriorate further.
posted by AnnaRat at 3:52 PM on November 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I suppose it depends on which FOB you'll be in, but westerners are getting shot in Kabul, and five minutes on Google News was enough to find one story of a British FOB that experienced daily attacks.
So, how safe is it? Not very, it seems.
posted by zippy at 5:30 AM on November 3, 2008