international composer of mystery
August 27, 2008 6:06 PM Subscribe
If you know a non-English language (especially one written in a non-Western alphabet), will you please tell me whether your language's entry is correct in this list?
Below is my list-in-progress of words for composer (of music).
In languages that have both a feminine and masculine form, I need the feminine form ("compositrice" not "compositeur"; "Komponistin" not "Komponist"; etc.). That's why asking humans is important, because some translation tools only list the masculine forms.
Any of these replies would be much appreciated:
• confirming any word you're sure is both correctly spelled and correct for referring to a female;
• pointing out any incorrect word (a word that only refers only to a male composer is incorrect here); or
• adding any other languages you know.
Arabic: مؤلف
Chinese: 作曲家
Czech: komponista
Danish: komponistin
Dutch: componistin
French: compositrice
German: Komponistin
Greek: συνθέτρια
Indonesian: pengarang
Italian: compositrice
Japanese: 作曲家
Korean: 작곡자
Portuguese: compositora
Russian: композитора
Serbian: композитора
Spanish: compositora
Swedish: tonsättare
Thai: คีตกวี
Hebrew: מלחין
Below is my list-in-progress of words for composer (of music).
In languages that have both a feminine and masculine form, I need the feminine form ("compositrice" not "compositeur"; "Komponistin" not "Komponist"; etc.). That's why asking humans is important, because some translation tools only list the masculine forms.
Any of these replies would be much appreciated:
• confirming any word you're sure is both correctly spelled and correct for referring to a female;
• pointing out any incorrect word (a word that only refers only to a male composer is incorrect here); or
• adding any other languages you know.
Arabic: مؤلف
Chinese: 作曲家
Czech: komponista
Danish: komponistin
Dutch: componistin
French: compositrice
German: Komponistin
Greek: συνθέτρια
Indonesian: pengarang
Italian: compositrice
Japanese: 作曲家
Korean: 작곡자
Portuguese: compositora
Russian: композитора
Serbian: композитора
Spanish: compositora
Swedish: tonsättare
Thai: คีตกวี
Hebrew: מלחין
Danish has to be wrong. 38 hits for "komponistin", almost 400 000 for "komponist".
I'm not Danish, but I guess Danish is like Norwegian her, no gender difference.
posted by Dumsnill at 6:29 PM on August 27, 2008
I'm not Danish, but I guess Danish is like Norwegian her, no gender difference.
posted by Dumsnill at 6:29 PM on August 27, 2008
Chinese and Japanese are correct; the nouns are gender neutral so there's no difference.
posted by monocot at 6:48 PM on August 27, 2008
posted by monocot at 6:48 PM on August 27, 2008
Korean is almost correct. Just change the last syllable: 작곡가
The nouns are gender neutral as with Chinese and Japanese. (It's actually the exact same set of hanja as in Chinese and Japanese, just spelled in hangeul the way the hanja are read in Korean)
posted by needled at 6:54 PM on August 27, 2008
The nouns are gender neutral as with Chinese and Japanese. (It's actually the exact same set of hanja as in Chinese and Japanese, just spelled in hangeul the way the hanja are read in Korean)
posted by needled at 6:54 PM on August 27, 2008
Igbo - oroegwu
posted by coizero at 7:33 PM on August 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by coizero at 7:33 PM on August 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks, whitewall. I'm definitely seeking the most modern usage in each language. The word a newspaper/website/etc. would use, today, to refer to a female composer.
A clearly antiquated term (like, say, "poetess" in English) would count as incorrect on my list, so please let me know if that's the case in any other language you see there.
Many thanks to everyone so far (and everybody please feel free to add any language I don't have yet).
posted by kalapierson at 7:57 PM on August 27, 2008
A clearly antiquated term (like, say, "poetess" in English) would count as incorrect on my list, so please let me know if that's the case in any other language you see there.
Many thanks to everyone so far (and everybody please feel free to add any language I don't have yet).
posted by kalapierson at 7:57 PM on August 27, 2008
The Russian should be "композитор." That word describes both male and female composers. But, it might have a different ending, depending on how you want to use it. For instance, "I am a composer" would be "я композитор," whereas "I saw a composer" would be "я видел композитора" (the version you have in your list).
posted by epimorph at 8:14 PM on August 27, 2008
posted by epimorph at 8:14 PM on August 27, 2008
The Bulgarian word is "композитор" also. There is a feminine form, "композиторка", but nobody really uses it anymore, and at least in certain academic circles it is considered bad taste ("yokel"-speak, so to say) to use the feminine variant when referring to a woman-composer.
posted by halogen at 8:29 PM on August 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by halogen at 8:29 PM on August 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
The Russian looks suspicious to me: The default masculine is композитор, and композитора is the genitive of that, so using it also for the feminine would tend to engender confusion. I suspect you could form a clear feminine with композиторка, but that might be read with some diminutive sense as well. (In Ukrainian, for which I actually have reference works, it goes as I have postulated for Russian: композитор is masculine, the masculine genitive is in -а, and nothing explicitly feminine is listed nearby.) People with stronger Russian are welcome to clarify...
posted by eritain at 8:32 PM on August 27, 2008
posted by eritain at 8:32 PM on August 27, 2008
Композитора is just flat wrong for Russian. Композиторша (not -ка) is more correct, but Russian, like English, tends to be fairly comfortable with using the masculine form generically (i.e. "Tanya is a composer"="Таня--композитор", they're both correct). You could, I suppose, say "женщина-композитор," but nowadays that looks just as awkward and archaic as "woman composer," its exact equivalent, would in English. The problem with композиторша is that it sounds rather informal, although there are no negative connotations.
posted by nasreddin at 9:29 PM on August 27, 2008
posted by nasreddin at 9:29 PM on August 27, 2008
Swedish is correct.
I would also go with "komponist" for Danish, like whitewall said.
posted by gemmy at 9:30 PM on August 27, 2008
I would also go with "komponist" for Danish, like whitewall said.
posted by gemmy at 9:30 PM on August 27, 2008
To rephrase after reading your comment above: just go with композитор.
posted by nasreddin at 9:33 PM on August 27, 2008
posted by nasreddin at 9:33 PM on August 27, 2008
Serbian is most likely incorrect: композиторa is the genitive case, you want the nominative - композитор. The feminine form is композиторкa.
posted by wsp at 9:46 PM on August 27, 2008
posted by wsp at 9:46 PM on August 27, 2008
Also, the Croatian word is "skladateljica".
posted by wsp at 9:51 PM on August 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by wsp at 9:51 PM on August 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
Indonesian (and Malay) have the same word regardless of gender. Yours is correct, though I have a feeling it might refer more to story writers than musical composers.
posted by divabat at 12:21 AM on August 28, 2008
posted by divabat at 12:21 AM on August 28, 2008
The Greek one is correct. συνθέτις is another older form that you could see used in a major newspaper.
posted by ersatz at 3:47 AM on August 28, 2008
posted by ersatz at 3:47 AM on August 28, 2008
Response by poster: Thanks divabat. Do you know a better Indonesian word?
posted by kalapierson at 4:15 AM on August 28, 2008
posted by kalapierson at 4:15 AM on August 28, 2008
hebrew is מלחנת for the feminine form
close, it's actually מלחינה
מלחין is right for masculine
posted by egg drop at 3:32 PM on August 28, 2008
close, it's actually מלחינה
מלחין is right for masculine
posted by egg drop at 3:32 PM on August 28, 2008
For the Arabic, your term is general and might refer to a writer more than a musical composer. If you want to be specific, then:
ملحن
As for the female term:
ملحنة
(If you've decide, however, to go with the word in your list, the one that's general and might refer to a writer more than a musical composer, then the female word is
مؤلفة
)
posted by howiamdifferent at 2:29 AM on August 29, 2008
ملحن
As for the female term:
ملحنة
(If you've decide, however, to go with the word in your list, the one that's general and might refer to a writer more than a musical composer, then the female word is
مؤلفة
)
posted by howiamdifferent at 2:29 AM on August 29, 2008
Response by poster: Fantastic input from everyone. So far we've added eight new languages and confirmed or corrected everything from my original list but Czech and Thai. Here's the current list according to all the responses in the thread so far:
Arabic: ملحنة
Bulgarian: композитор
Chinese: 作曲家
Croatian: skladateljica
[[ Czech: komponista (unconfirmed) ]]
Danish: komponist
Dutch: componiste
Finnish: säveltäjä
French: compositrice
German: Komponistin
Greek: συνθέτρια
Igbo: oroegwu
Indonesian: pengarang
Irish: cumadóir
Italian: compositrice
Japanese: 作曲家
Korean: 작곡가
Norwegian: komponist
Polish: kompozytor
Portuguese: compositora
Russian: композитор
Serbian: композитор
Spanish: compositora
Swedish: tonsättare
[[ Thai: คีตกวี (unconfirmed) ]]
Ukrainian: композитор
Hebrew: מלחינה
posted by kalapierson at 3:45 AM on August 29, 2008
Arabic: ملحنة
Bulgarian: композитор
Chinese: 作曲家
Croatian: skladateljica
[[ Czech: komponista (unconfirmed) ]]
Danish: komponist
Dutch: componiste
Finnish: säveltäjä
French: compositrice
German: Komponistin
Greek: συνθέτρια
Igbo: oroegwu
Indonesian: pengarang
Irish: cumadóir
Italian: compositrice
Japanese: 作曲家
Korean: 작곡가
Norwegian: komponist
Polish: kompozytor
Portuguese: compositora
Russian: композитор
Serbian: композитор
Spanish: compositora
Swedish: tonsättare
[[ Thai: คีตกวี (unconfirmed) ]]
Ukrainian: композитор
Hebrew: מלחינה
posted by kalapierson at 3:45 AM on August 29, 2008
Just wanted to point out that the Arabic word you've included in your updated list is the feminine form, not the masculine one (which is the first Arabic word in my post above).
posted by howiamdifferent at 3:08 AM on August 31, 2008
posted by howiamdifferent at 3:08 AM on August 31, 2008
Response by poster: I think I don't see what you're pointing out, howamidifferent. I do want the feminine form if it's correct grammatically. I'm looking for the word one would use in a sentence like "She is a composer." Is ملحنة the right word for that?
posted by kalapierson at 8:51 AM on August 31, 2008
posted by kalapierson at 8:51 AM on August 31, 2008
The Czech is the feminine form (and is correct too...)
posted by quietfish at 5:32 PM on August 31, 2008
posted by quietfish at 5:32 PM on August 31, 2008
A better word to use in Indonesian would be 'komposer'.
'Pengarang' would be mostly used for writer.
The language is gender neural btw.
posted by joewandy at 11:53 PM on October 14, 2008
'Pengarang' would be mostly used for writer.
The language is gender neural btw.
posted by joewandy at 11:53 PM on October 14, 2008
Response by poster: The Thai is confirmed correct too.
Other additions:
Hindi: racayitā
Urdu: مصنف
And here's a second AskMe that will hopefully expand the list further.
posted by kalapierson at 10:34 PM on December 21, 2008
Other additions:
Hindi: racayitā
Urdu: مصنف
And here's a second AskMe that will hopefully expand the list further.
posted by kalapierson at 10:34 PM on December 21, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Zambrano at 6:22 PM on August 27, 2008