A kiss is just a kiss

July 15, 2008 11:05 PM

Am I fair in blaming a snail's-pace relationship on my weak ability to show affection?

I'm ~3 months into a relationship with a girl I'm smitten over. Unfortunately, it's the most G-rated, nonphysical relationship I've ever been in. The same for her, probably, as she's had lots of sex before me. Our relationship has evolved very little since the first date. I'm worried I'm more the problem than she is.

Both of us have executed few acts of entering the other's personal space. Very little hand-holding: her hands are always somewhere that I can't reach them without a little force, like the purse strap. Kissing happens only at the end of dates, and they're split-second short. (The exception is last Sunday, when I couldn't take it anymore and asked her outright for a nice kiss. 'Sure,' she said, and it was so.) No making out and sex, by corollary.

For someone who's had way more experience than I've had, I'm stumped why this relationship has basically stalled. I'm more than happy to wait indefinitely for sex, but no other forms of affection have come to fill the void. I'm the source of most of it, and I don't even do that much because I stress out about what she'd think. In a theatre I managed to reach over and give her a quick body squeeze before bailing out. She's been to my apartment once (it was early on and she knew I wouldn't pull any moves; we talked the entire time), but I don't know if I could ask her over again. I feel like she'd interpret it as a push for sex, which may or may not be the case, who knows. (Which is an interesting side question: how does one pose this invitation?) I used to be the exact opposite: with past GFs, I wouldn't shut up about how much I 'loved' them. In hindsight it was totally creepy.

Am I fair in blaming a snail's-pace relationship on my weak ability to show affection? What can I do to improve myself or get her to understand how I feel about her lack of response? Bringing up the desire for a good kiss is one thing, but I can't keep doing it for squeezing, hand-holding, first base, etc.

(Please don't suggest that I DTMFA. I know it sounds like she's cold and uninterested in me. I'm sure she enjoys my company very much. What we lack in physicality we make up verbally: we spend six hour stretches just talking and having fun.)

posted by anonymous to human relations (24 comments total)

3 months and no makin' out? Strange for me. IMHO, if she is so into you, why just pecks?

But, more importantly, why are you asking us about this? Why not ask her?

"Hey you, this is going so great. So so so so great. It is the best time I've ever had in a relationship. One thing that is a little different from other relationships though, is that we're not doing as much physically. That's cool with me, of course, takin' it slow is fine. But I wonder if there is anything going on that we should talk about - I mean, pecks on the cheek are nice, but are you comfortable with doing more?"
posted by k8t at 11:14 PM on July 15, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

As a girl, I read this as "I like you lots, but I'm really not interested in you physically."
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 11:23 PM on July 15, 2008 [9 favorites has favorites]

It takes courage, but you need to talk to her about it. k8t gave you one script. Another alternative is to start with how much you like her and the physical stuff is different than other relationships but instead of asking if she is comfortable doing more, is to just let her know what you've been worrying about: "I've been wondering if you just wanted to take it slow or if you just aren't into me that way." That opens the door for her to say what might be hard - that she just wants to be friends or to reassure you by say "No, I was just waiting for you to ..." or "No, I would like to but I have this past trauma that makes it hard".
posted by metahawk at 11:33 PM on July 15, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

Am I fair in blaming a snail's-pace relationship on my weak ability to show affection?

No. There is a huge range of fun things to do between pecks on cheeks and out-and-out sex and I think in most relationships you're moving along that continuum, even if you're moving along it slowly. You seem to not be moving along it at all and it seems to me like you've made a few cautious explorations in that area that have not really led anywhere. It really takes two people to make the fun kissyface+more stuff happen and it seems like at least one of you is not going there, like ever.

So, you have a choice to make. If you like this girl and think she likes you [like LIKES you likes you] then you should probably mention it to her because it seems like this is outside the range of normal tolerances for what people who are dating usually experience. It seems like, from what you describe, that she is not into you as more than a friend. That is, she likes the attention but for whatever reason isn't into returning it in a dating-people sort of way. We have seen this before on AskMe, it's not totally a left-field situation.

That said, maybe she has some sort of reasoning behind her actions that is totally plausible and she really is into you the same way you are into her. In that case, you'd be doing yourself a favor getting your feelings out into the open. I don't think you have to harp on the "hey I'm not pressuring you for sex!!!" aspect, just "hey I really like being close to you and I'd like to hold your hand and smooch on you from time to time and yet that seems like it's more difficult than it should be, is there something I should know?" I can understand your wanting to be respectful of her boundaries but if you're feeling like you'd like to be having sex with her and shes not making any moves in that direction, it may be a bad fit. No one's wrong, just may be a bad fit. Similarly the not shutting up about how much you love someone may not be creepy, but it can be if it's a bad fit. Don't beat yourself up over either of these.

Put another way, for many people three months into a relationship (as I myself am, though I may not be your age, your religious persuasion or have your standards or scruples) I think many people are still in the "OMG being around you is SO GREAT" stage where you can't keep your hands off each other. That does not sound like what you have and it seems like it may be tough to take it in that direction from where you are now.
posted by jessamyn at 11:36 PM on July 15, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

In the (very few, it seems) times that you've initiated the smooching, has she ever said no? Just go for it, dude. Every time I've ever been given the "hey can I kiss you now is that ok?" question, my (to myself) response has always been: "Well, yeah, five minutes ago, but now that you've asked I'm left wondering how come you don't have any goddamned balls."

It's cute the first time, then it gets tiresome (Yourgirfriend'sMMV). Grow a pair.
posted by phunniemee at 11:50 PM on July 15, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

I'm not saying this is good or fair, but plenty of women expect men to make the first moves and she may be one of them. You can try being more affectionate, or you can ask her outright to talk about it.
posted by Nattie at 11:52 PM on July 15, 2008

If she is as experienced as you say, she might find the innocence of your relationship really refreshing. From personal experience, it doesn't necessarily mean that she's not attracted to you. She's probably just enjoying the change of pace.
posted by arianell at 12:03 AM on July 16, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

we spend six hour stretches just talking and having fun.

As a girl boy, I read this as "I like you lots, but I'm really not interested in you physically."

Bingo. She likes you, yeah, but she (probably) doesn't like you like you.

My tongue in cheek advice? Go for a good, hard, old-fashioned snog. Her reaction will tell you everything you need to know.

Hint: barring an upbringing as an extremely conservative $religion/philosophy, anything that doesn't involve snogging you right back is either a) Yeah, ok, how about you stop that right now before things get weird?, or b) I am way too repressed to deal with this.

In either case? D T M F A, seriously.

Or, y'know, do the grownup thing and talk to her. I am always in awe at how that is the last option for most people.


My real advice, because this is how grownups deal with things:

How to talk to her: "So hey, I was wondering, I like you a lot, and I'm kind of unsure about how you're feeling. Whatever you're feeling is fine by me, I'd just like to know where I stand."

How not to: "I LIKE YOU DON'T YOU LIKE ME WHAT'S GOING ON???"
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 1:40 AM on July 16, 2008

Yeah, talk to the girl. From what you say, I agree with Dee Xtrovert... Sounds like she likes you, and might be stringing you along a bit because she doesn't want to loose what she's got going, but at the same time doesn't want to give more. It's okay for you to want more (it's normal and good, actually), so talk to her in a relaxed tone, assure her the friendship isn't on the line (if indeed it isn't, of course), and open up. Hopefully she'll be honest - honesty tends to attract honesty - and you'll have your answer. Good luck.
posted by neblina_matinal at 3:44 AM on July 16, 2008

does she know that you are less experienced? if she does, is there a possibility that she is waiting for you to be ready?

nthing that you need to talk to her (or just smooch her, sexy-style). regardless of which way she's feeling, she won't be surprised if you've been dating fro three months. do it!
posted by argylekneesocks at 4:12 AM on July 16, 2008

well, make a move and see how it goes. don't ask, just kiss her long and hard, and maybe put your hand up her shirt. or grab her hand next time you're driving or at a movie, or walking down the street. if she responds, great! if she stiffens up and withdraws, then she's not into it, and you have to sit down and talk about it.

it's very possible that she likes you a lot but isn't sexually attracted to you, and is hoping that her affection for you will eventually translate into something sexual. it's possible that she senses your lack of experience and is letting you set the pace. it's possible that you've just managed to establish a habit of this cool relationship and she is afraid to change things up for fear of losing you. so make the move.
posted by thinkingwoman at 4:18 AM on July 16, 2008

This sounds like a friend not a girlfriend.
posted by Jacqueline at 4:46 AM on July 16, 2008 [3 favorites has favorites]

Is it possible she's not as experienced as you think she is?

After 3 months it wouldn't be outrageous of you to invite her to your place for dinner and a dvd :) The cosy atmosphere (and the home ground advantage) might be just what you need to work your magic.

Clean you house beautifully!! And don't just try to bang her!! You'll score big points for trying to take this further, yet not all the way. Unless of course she wants you to. In that case you'd best just let her have it.
posted by mu~ha~ha~ha~har at 6:11 AM on July 16, 2008

Invite her over to your place for movie night (make sure anyone you live with is out of the way for the evening). Sit next to her on the couch, put your arm around her, stroke her hair, massage the back of her neck. Be sensitive to her response or lack thereof. If she pulls away, isn't relaxing into it or responding, stop and accept that you have a friend, not a girlfriend. If she does respond as you'd like, let things lead where they lead.
posted by orange swan at 6:11 AM on July 16, 2008

Hold on...with all this she likes you or doesnt like you (however it sounds to me she doesnt like you like THAT but we will get to that later?)



VERY VERY SHY.
Not comfortable with her LIKE THAT....(and you still deal with this because she is probably pretty good to talk to and probably very pretty right?)

I say that three months of hanging around like that and sooner or later you'll get into the LJBF (lets just be friends).

So next time you are in a date with her, in the middle of the date try to kiss her, work it in your mind that you are going to make it happen and just go for it. How do you start? At any random moment you get her close to you hugging and what not...and you just go for it....ask if you must: you smell so good...can i kiss you? or tell her that you are going to "babe, i think i wanna kiss you now"......please dont do this at the end of the date..go for a walk in park sometime at night, sit her in your lap, have some guy serenate you, take a horse carriage thingy, whatever you need to do to be physical in a non-threatening way (and I fear you need this more than her)

if her reaction is negative, jumpy, or more like what are you doing??? then she is not that comfortable with you and after 3 months, I am not sure she will be........

I also dont understand your need to have a verbal invitation from her..are you expecting her to tell you to kiss her? I mean i know we are all liberals and what not but she may even be even more shy than you or uncomfortable with making the first move because as much experience as she has I assure you more likely than not at least in the early stages of the relationship the other guys probably initiated physical contact.

ahhh on another note to answer this question:

I feel like she'd interpret it as a push for sex, which may or may not be the case, who knows. (Which is an interesting side question: how does one pose this invitation?)

if you invite her to your apartment with the hopes of get physical do not indulge on a conversation of getting physical prior to doing this...by this i mean no invitation crappity crap lets go to my room.....just ummm get physical (probably by kissing passionately) and see where that leads you...may be nowhere....but I think is better than "asking" or "inviting"
posted by The1andonly at 6:38 AM on July 16, 2008

Am I fair in blaming a snail's-pace relationship on my weak ability to show affection? What can I do to improve myself or get her to understand how I feel about her lack of response?

I totally don't get it. It takes two people to not kiss: one to not kiss, and the other one to also not kiss. If we're just going by actions (and not by your frustrated AskMe question), it seems perfectly understandable if SHE thought that YOU weren't interested in a greater level of physicality than you have now.

It'd be one thing if you were constantly putting the moves and her and getting shut down. But it seems like neither one of you is putting the moves on the other one, and neither one of you is complaining to the other. There's no way to know how much physicality she will go for without either 1) going for it, or 2) talking to her about it.

Please don't suggest that I DTMFA. I know it sounds like she's cold and uninterested in me.

Respectfully, I can imagine her telling her side of the story to her friends, and all of them saying DTMFA about you. You sound cold and uninterested, too! If that's not how you feel, then do something to make that clear. I don't think you've made that clear yet.
posted by 23skidoo at 7:08 AM on July 16, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

Bringing up the desire for a good kiss is one thing, but I can't keep doing it for squeezing, hand-holding, first base, etc.

Yes, you can! If you really want to be close to her, you have to do something. If you do nothing, you will not be close to her. It may be that you have to ask a lot at first--but she did kiss you when you asked, and maybe she'll later on feel more comfortable asking you, or giving you, a kiss, or a squeeze, or an appreciative long gaze in the eyes. It would also soon be apparent if she doesn't want to kiss/hold hands/touch-elbows-across-the-table; she'll probably make it clear.
posted by not_on_display at 7:12 AM on July 16, 2008

i wonder if the problem is more simple. maybe try brushing up on your hygiene. personally, i have a supersonic sense of smell, and i've been standoffish in the past when i couldn't find a polite way to say "i like you but you stink".

so, in the couple hours before you see her next time, give yourself a man-spa:
get a haircut, shave or trim your facial hair.
poke your tonsils in case you have tonsilloliths that are stkinking up your breath, floss, brush teeth & tongue really throughly, & use mouthwash.
shower with lots of soap, really scrub the heck outta your skin. clean your nails.
scrub your face and lips with a damp facecloth to exfoliate everything, then use chapstick (flaky lips = no kissing in my book).
nix the cologne, just use a nice-smelling deodorant (i think old spice red deororant sticks smell pretty great for a $4 product).
put on clean, crisp clothes.
chew gum on the date to keep your mouth fresh.

now that you're fresh as a daisy, try (very gently) stepping up the contact.
if it works, you can take it as a hint that you were a little too scruffy before.
if that doesn't work, it's probably worth talking about it.
posted by twistofrhyme at 8:30 AM on July 16, 2008

Are you sure that you´ve been in a relationship with this person for 3 months? are you sure that you´ve been going on dates? This sounds like you´ve just been hanging out as friends. Did the two of you ever have a discussion about being exclusive or starting a relationship? Maybe you have been ¨just friends¨ as far as she is concerned all this time. But now... a kiss... a chance to be more than friends.

Maybe that´s what´s going on.
posted by yohko at 8:32 AM on July 16, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

It's okay to want to have sexual contact with your girlfriend, and to initiate it. Really, it is. It doesn't make you an asshole.

Why she doesn't respond when you do try to initiate contact? Does she want you to initiate more? Is she not that into it? Talk to her, and don't apologize for being attracted to her.
posted by heatherann at 8:56 AM on July 16, 2008

After three months of this, I'd be ready to throw you on the bed and rip your clothes off. From my perspective she's either not interested in you physically or thinks that you aren't interested in her. If she thinks you're not interested in her, then she's just too passive to try and find out. Passive person + passive person = painfully slow relationship. We're talking to you, not her, so you have to be the assertive one. Like heatherann said, it doesn't make you an asshole. After 3 months, she already knows you're not an asshole. You're not going to throw her on the bed and rip her clothes off. You're going to start slowly but surely and gauge her reaction. Don't ask permission beforehand unless you're going to do something kinky or offbeat like. A whispered "Mmm, you like that?" will be enough for you to know if you should keep going.
posted by desjardins at 9:21 AM on July 16, 2008

Sounds like the two of you have a great friendship forming. Why can't you just have that? My best friend for several years was a girl -- boys and girls are allowed to do that, you know.
posted by davejay at 9:46 AM on July 16, 2008

Yeah, just because she's had lots of sex before you doesn't mean she's going to make the first move by default.
posted by katillathehun at 10:29 AM on July 16, 2008

If she wasn't into you, she wouldn't have kissed you when you asked. This scenario is screaming for you to take charge, be the guy, and make it happen.

I think you are way over thinking the situation. Do you want to have sex with her? It doesn't matter how much more experience she has, some girls need the guy to initiate physical contact early on in the relationship. I have been in her shoes before and I cannot tell you how frustrating it can be to be with a guy you really like who isn't making the moves when clearly he's interested.

Without putting too fine a point on it, take her. What have you got to loose?
posted by smallstatic at 8:48 PM on July 16, 2008