Do I sleep weird?

May 19, 2008 10:08 PM

I wake up feeling drunk, then stumble through the day, and regularly pull all nighters to meet early morning deadlines, how do I break the cycle!?

Currently I wake up feeling really groggy and almost drunk, I've had people come in and wake me up, and I have had conversations which I later don't recall, or I've even gotten up and had breakfast then fallen asleep again without remembering any of it. The rest of the day after that is largely a haze until late at night, then I just can't sleep until around 3am. Is the groggy drunk feeling 'normal'?

Getting to sleep itself, is a huge hassle, I'm working on everything, exercise, 5-HTP, valerian, removal of visual stimuli, white noise/ambience. Nothing is working!

I've always been a fairly poor sleeper, but it has gotten exceptionally bad lately, perhaps following on from a lengthy period of depression, I discussed this with a therapist, who printed me out some fact sheets which told me nothing new and avoided answering my questions about practical steps to resolve it.

Routinely I pull two day stints in order to meet early morning appointments or deadlines then crash out the next day, I'm doing this sometime once a week but I'm feeling it just compounds the problems. Even when I wake at around 7am, I don't find myself remotely tired until 2am - 4am the next day.

I'm seeing a doctor in a week, so hopefully then I can get some educated advice, and hopefully get a melatonin perscription[?].

In more of a shorter time frame, I woke up at 3pm today, which really is going to make getting up for work at 8am tomorrow a real mission. Any short term things I can do so that I am awake for tomorrow?

I'm a 22 year old male if that assists!

posted by chrisbucks to health (26 comments total)

May be easier said than done but...try a new bed.
posted by turgid dahlia at 10:19 PM on May 19

Step one would be to figure out some new time-management skills, because the business of impending doom from stuff being due is going to make you not sleep well. Also, pulling all-nighters isn't a good idea ever, but you probably know that.

If I haven't been sleeping well, for many nights in a row (which hasn't happened since I got the mattress I'm currently sleeping on), I'll pull my covers onto the floor (couch, chair, etc) and go sleep somewhere else for a night for a change of scenery. Then, the next day, my body is all "omg THANK YOU FOR NOT BEING A FLOOR" and I fall asleep immediately. But maybe that's just me.

Mostly the time-management stuff. Figure out how to get your work done during the daylight hours, or consider taking on less work.
posted by phunniemee at 10:22 PM on May 19

Citing a website isn't really going to help you much, but as you are already doing many excellent things (more ideas here) and are going to see an MD, perhaps you could read this Mayo Clinic report. You should discuss a medication with your doctor, for short term use as you 'train' yourself to sleep more normally.
Additionally, wikiHow has an unusually good article on sleep.
posted by dawson at 10:23 PM on May 19

Waking up groggy is normal if you're up until 3am, yes. Having difficulty sleeping and waking up is also a symptom of depression.

You don't mention caffeine or alcohol, but both can really disrupt your sleep cycle too.

I would recommend, for starters:

- no caffeine after noon
- limit alcohol to no more than 1 drink / day
- 20 minutes of exercise 3 times per week, minimum
- set a reasonable bedtime and stick to it. get in the habit of going to sleep before 11pm
posted by zippy at 10:24 PM on May 19

One other note, don't fight it. That is, if you can't sleep, don't fret, toss and despair...just lay with your eyes closed and relax your body,gradually, from the toes up. Even if you don't fall asleep the quiet time will be something your body will appreciate.
posted by dawson at 10:28 PM on May 19

It's worth mentioning that melatonin is available over-the-counter - look in the vitamin aisle. As a sleep-deprived college student on a very strange schedule, it really helps me shift my sleeping hours when I need to - but YMMV.
posted by ArbiterOne at 10:29 PM on May 19

@ArbiterOne
-It's prescription only here :( (New Zealand).

@zippy
-Generally don't consume caffeine at all, although for a few days I did take some NoDoz to keep me from falling over at work.

I had some zopiclone for a short bit, (was only given 7 caps) which helped momentarily, but occasionally I could take a half and still be awake hours later just feeling medicated.
posted by chrisbucks at 10:37 PM on May 19

You need a schedule. No wonder you're feeling punch-drunk if you stay up for a couple days once a week. I think you need to get up at the same time every day, regardless of if you have a deadline. Even if you've stayed up until 3 a.m., get up at 7 (or whenever) in the morning every day until your body gets retrained to the schedule.

Seconding the time management suggestion as well. That seems to be the cause of your sleep problems.
posted by sfkiddo at 10:45 PM on May 19

Oh, and one more thing: figure out how much sleep your body needs. I know everyone brags about that they only need 4 or 5 hours of sleep a night (in the U.S., at least, people won't shut up about it), but you may need more. I used to have an erratic schedule and was trying to force myself to sleep only 5-5.5 hours/night and felt groggy for hours after I finally dragged myself out of bed (after hitting the snooze for hours). Now I get 8 hours a night and find it's much easier for me to get out of bed and be reasonably alert.
posted by sfkiddo at 10:48 PM on May 19

Mmmm, I'm only mentioning this because it helps me immensely when I have my (rather frequent) bouts with insomnia, but have you tried marijuana? YMMV...
posted by Geppp at 10:55 PM on May 19

I think you might want to try an alarm clock for going to bed. Go to bed at the same time everyday - get into a schedule. If you can't fall asleep after laying there for 30 minues, get up and read book - no TV/Computer and then try to fall asleep again. While laying there waiting to fall asleep, try relaxation exercises. Get on a schedule.
posted by bigmusic at 11:10 PM on May 19

I'm doing this sometime once a week but I'm feeling it just compounds the problems

For my money, it's not compounding the problems, it's causing the problems.

When I was young and keen and foolish, I could pull all-nighters pretty regularly with very little bodily penalty. If I do it these days, I end up feeling much as you describe for the following few days. If you're doing all-nighters every week, you simply don't get the chance to pay off your sleep debt.

As the great man said: I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.

Your body deserves your loyalty far more than your employer does.
posted by flabdablet at 11:17 PM on May 19

"Routinely I pull two day stints in order to meet early morning appointments or deadlines then crash out the next day..."

DING DING DING!!! We have a winner!!!!!

You can not fuck with your circadian rhythms this way and escape unscathed! You are basically undermining the basis of your sleep cycle, putting yourself into serious sleep debt, and then expecting to wake up on demand. Not. gonna. happen.

I knew a guy once, who had completely subverted his circadian rhythm and had no regular sleep cycle. This guy would work as long as he felt he needed to and would sleep whenever his body gave out. He went from being a pretty darn good computer programmer to a landscaper. You never knew when this guy would be awake, and, guess what...neither did he.

Do not do this. Your brain and body need regular, regulated sleep. It exists for a reason. So, figure out your time management issues and go to bed EVERY NIGHT!
posted by The Light Fantastic at 12:21 AM on May 20

I knew a guy once, who had completely subverted his circadian rhythm and had no regular sleep cycle....He went from being a pretty darn good computer programmer to a landscaper.

Do you also have a friend who smoked the marijuana cigarettes but one time and was propelled into a life of psychosis and murder? Do you know who else sleeps like shit? Busy lawyers, on-call doctors, etc. Your friend probably just got tired of any number of the pressures/stresses of being a programmer and decided his life as a landscaper was more conducive to his happiness.

Your body is ultimately going to get its share of sleep, no matter what you do to try to undermine its attempts at doing so. The best solution is to look at just what might be causing you to throw off your sleep schedule. The first things I would look at, in no particular order of importance are:

Depression - Periods where I just don't feel 100% all day long due to both explicable and inexplicable anxiety/sadness will tend to add 1-2 hours to my required sleep. Address this with a professional or friends or whatever is at your disposal.

Caffeine - Caffeine doesn't feel that great when you're up on it, and it feels pretty miserable when you feel like you need some. Kicking it is the hardest, but once you do your body will thank you.

Diet - We all eat like shit. Even people putting thought and effort into what they are eating still come up with shit. Quit eating fatty fast foods and high fructose corn syrupy instant foods on a regular basis.

Exercise - This will make your body a bit more aggressive about exacting its sleep needs upon you. Ever since I started lifting weights I never had much time to myself with my thoughts before falling asleep.

Procrastination - This is a tough one to beat, and might singlehandedly be responsible for both your lack of sleep and inability to sleep. Whatever you can do to cut down on this, do it. Don't put dealing with this off, either.
posted by GooseOnTheLoose at 12:58 AM on May 20 [2 favorites]

Apart from anything else, it's clear you need a holiday. At least a week with no deadlines, regular light exercise, and regular bedtime would be just the ticket.

These sleep hygiene things you've been trying - how long for? When I've been seriously jetlagged or working weird hours it's taken as much as a couple of weeks of regular moderate behaviour to get back in synch. If you give up after a week, that's too soon.

It's obvious that by staying up super late on a regular basis, your body thinks bedtime is 3 or 4 AM, and you don't "wake up" until after midday. Assuming you want to get up at 6 or 7 AM, you're out by maybe 6 hours. If you could shift your clock half an hour day, which would be a lot, it would still take 12 days to straighten out.

You can not keep irregular hours and have a regular life. If you are going to have a regular life, you have to learn that when there is unfinished work, you switch off, go to bed and leave it for the morning. New Zealand has record low unemployment right now, and you're only 22 - if your job requires this kind of stupidity, there will never be a better time to quit and find a better one than now. I kind of doubt that though. It sounds as though you've got into a rut with your silly work habits that you can't see your way out of.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:51 AM on May 20

I knew a guy once, who had completely subverted his circadian rhythm and had no regular sleep cycle.[]. He went from being a pretty darn good computer programmer to a landscaper. You never knew when this guy would be awake, and, guess what...neither did he.

I think the word in the macho inner circles of programming is "sleep camel".
posted by rongorongo at 2:13 AM on May 20

Have you ever been checked for other mood disorders, such as bipolar? The being up a lot at night following a depression is why I ask. If you have this, perhaps even a mild version, the treatment would be different than just plain anti-depressants. There's a quiz here that you can take and give to your doctor when you go. Are you on any meds for depression? Some of those can have weird side effects. Make sure you tell your doctor everything you are taking, prescription or not.

Limit your exercise to early in the day. I have tried 5HTP for anxiety, only to find it gives me strange dreams. I do a lot better with an early exercise routine (before noon), eating throughout the day, limiting white starches like breads and white rice, and dark colors in the bedroom (royal blue). Shades drawn against the light and a really boring book with a small incandescent lamp for coziness while reading. Shutting off the TV and computer (i.e., don't watch exciting or upsetting programs 1-2 hours before bed, I made this mistake a couple of weeks ago and found myself up late watching Star Wars battles).

If I get insomnia (waking at midnight or 1-2 a.m., or not being able to fall asleep), I get up and have a bowl of cereal or a glass of warm milk with a little nutmeg (this is a good time to eat starches, chicken flavored Ramen is a good sleep inducer for me). Watch a really boring documentary program and make sure your feet are warm. My grandmother always said warm feet = good sleep.

If the doc rules out mood swings, ask about a sleep clinic test. Sometimes sleep apnea is a culprit, or any other number of things, but you can be monitored to see if there's an obvious cause.

And there is NO job worth wrecking your health to pull all nighters. If it puts that much pressure on you, consider switching jobs! Good luck at the doctor's!
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 3:59 AM on May 20

Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome.
posted by xchmp at 4:02 AM on May 20

Wake time is the biggest predictor of stabalized metabolic sleep factors. I mean, the chemicals in your body balance based on a consistent alarm clock.

You've got to use an alarm clock, and go to bed 8-9 hours before the alarm or earlier if you are tired. In a month your body should sort itself out if there aren't other problems.

Good sleep takes discipline. It's like eating well.
posted by ewkpates at 4:24 AM on May 20

Just because nobody else has thrown down with the suggestion, let me offer that you might want to look into being seen at a sleep clinic, and perhaps being studied for sleep apnea. This is more common in young men, than has been previously thought, and your description

"... Currently I wake up feeling really groggy and almost drunk, I've had people come in and wake me up, and I have had conversations which I later don't recall, or I've even gotten up and had breakfast then fallen asleep again without remembering any of it. The rest of the day after that is largely a haze until late at night, then I just can't sleep until around 3am. Is the groggy drunk feeling 'normal'? ..."

would ring large bronze bells of recognition with many sleep apnea sufferers. Low oxygen levels, and night after night of literally fighting for your life, asleep, can do this to you.

At a sleep clinic, you're observed or videotaped sleeping, and may have some REM studies. Breathing difficulties, REM abnormalities, and other sleep disturbances are usually straightforward to spot. The remedies may not be drugs at all, but mechanical devices like CPAP machines. If something like this is the cause of your difficulty, the relief can be extremely effective, and very quick, once your problem is diagnosed, and you get the right solution.
posted by paulsc at 5:55 AM on May 20

You need ambien. Perscription only here in the U.S., but it's gone generic so it's cheap (US $10). It will put you to sleep for 6 hours. Like a light -- you'll be out in less than an hour if you take one. For your immediate problem (getting up tomorrow at 8 AM), it might be worth a try if you can find one.

Everyone else has good advice for dealing with your long term problem.

Get some sleep!
posted by zpousman at 5:57 AM on May 20

To reset your biological clock:
Get a lot of bright light at the time of day you want your body to think it is "morning", which will suppress melatonin (a sleep hormone) production and then take melatonin supplements at the time of day you want your body to think it is night, this should be 8-9 hours before you want to get up. This is the recommended technique to overcome jet lag. However, all bets are off if you consume caffeine or pull all-nighters.
posted by bobobox at 6:13 AM on May 20

Echoing the sleep apnea suggestion, based on personal experience. And untreated sleep apnea can lead to congestive heart failure, so it's not a harmless innocent l'il condition.
posted by WCityMike at 7:12 AM on May 20

Are you running the furnace at all? If so, get it checked for CO leaking. Seriously. The symptoms you described fit very well with CO poisoning.
posted by infodiva at 7:37 AM on May 20

I knew a guy once, who had completely subverted his circadian rhythm and had no regular sleep cycle....He went from being a pretty darn good computer programmer to a landscaper.

>Do you also have a friend who smoked the marijuana cigarettes but one time and was propelled into a life of psychosis and murder? Do you know who else sleeps like shit? Busy lawyers, on-call doctors, etc. Your friend probably just got tired of any number of the pressures/stresses of being a programmer and decided his life as a landscaper was more conducive to his happiness.

I'll ignore the tone and address the point. (Wow...you really were pretty rude there.) I knew this guy for quite a few years. You NEVER knew when he would be awake or asleep, and neither did he. It was impossible to make plans with him, and his software jobs put up with it because he was a very good programmer. Trust me, I've known a lot of software people, and this was above and beyond the usual deadline induced sleep disturbance.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 7:58 AM on May 20

I'd bet you're getting too hot when you sleep. Seriously, get a lighter duvet or just sleep under a sheet. I always get that groggy, strange feeling when I've been sleeping under a duvet that's too heavy for the climate. I also tend to suffer 'sleep paralysis' when I'm sleeping too hot, which is extremely unpleasant.

I was lucky enough to read about it here quite a few years ago. The article mostly talks about skin conditions but also refers to a study done of people sleeping under duvets of varying 'tog' levels and how participants who got too hot experienced less REM sleep, making them groggy and depressed in the morning. And most people sleep under warmer bedding than they actually need.

And it probably goes without saying that your working hours aren't helping...
posted by 8k at 1:04 PM on July 20