smelly friend, smelly friend, what are you doing today? tomorrow? the day after tomorrow? this weekend? next weekend?
May 16, 2008 11:39 AM Subscribe
How can I communicate to a very clingy friend, that no, she does not smell, and yes, I value her as a friend, but do not need to see her every week?
Some background. I moved to a certain big city for grad school last summer. A acquaintance who I knew in the old city moved up to new city with her boyfriend, who also moved to said city for grad school. This I think is a big factor, because I seem to be her only friend in the area, after 9 months or so. She's met some people from work, but they don't seem to be in relative age range nor people she would consider "hanging out" with. I totally understand this, and that it's difficult to make friends in new places, and it's much easier when you're in a shared environment, like school. So I've tried to invite her out with friends I've made from school. Sometimes she'd come with the boyfriend, but not make any attempt to make conversation with my school friends. She'd just talk with me and her boyfriend.
But she's getting clingy with me and it's bothering me. I've gotten to know her more since she's moved up her, and I do like and value her, but I don't (and cannot) hang out every weekend with her.
The past few weeks have been extremely stressful and busy with finals and term papers and work, and I explicitly told her I'd be MIA for a few weeks. Today has been an exciting day, because I actually spoke to 4 humans face-to-face! But generally, I have to be a hermit to get things done. But she keeps asking me (facebook, text message) if I want to get together for lunch, or go to the farmer's market, when I told her just the day before - that I cannot do anything because I am swamped. So why would she keep asking me?
I know she's probably lonely. I know being in a new city is rough. But I'm beginning to be bothered by snide remarks that I might think she smells, which is why I haven't seen her for a few weeks. While I know it's sarcasm, there's also a bit of truth behind it - accusing me of not wanting to hang out, when I'm honest to god, really fucking busy. And told her that, several times. And in other parts of the year, I'm perfectly content with seeing friends every few weeks - can an extroverted person help explain to me if they think this is unreasonable for someone who is in a competitive grad school program full time, and work 25-30 hours a week, and has other friends, and also needs to recuperate with some alone time?
I'm a pretty introverted person. I like people, a lot. I really do. But after social interaction, I do need some alone time. I function better when I "charge myself" so to speak.
How do I politely tell her and convince her that I do care about her as a friend, but to suggest she not take "no, I can't hang out" personally?
Some background. I moved to a certain big city for grad school last summer. A acquaintance who I knew in the old city moved up to new city with her boyfriend, who also moved to said city for grad school. This I think is a big factor, because I seem to be her only friend in the area, after 9 months or so. She's met some people from work, but they don't seem to be in relative age range nor people she would consider "hanging out" with. I totally understand this, and that it's difficult to make friends in new places, and it's much easier when you're in a shared environment, like school. So I've tried to invite her out with friends I've made from school. Sometimes she'd come with the boyfriend, but not make any attempt to make conversation with my school friends. She'd just talk with me and her boyfriend.
But she's getting clingy with me and it's bothering me. I've gotten to know her more since she's moved up her, and I do like and value her, but I don't (and cannot) hang out every weekend with her.
The past few weeks have been extremely stressful and busy with finals and term papers and work, and I explicitly told her I'd be MIA for a few weeks. Today has been an exciting day, because I actually spoke to 4 humans face-to-face! But generally, I have to be a hermit to get things done. But she keeps asking me (facebook, text message) if I want to get together for lunch, or go to the farmer's market, when I told her just the day before - that I cannot do anything because I am swamped. So why would she keep asking me?
I know she's probably lonely. I know being in a new city is rough. But I'm beginning to be bothered by snide remarks that I might think she smells, which is why I haven't seen her for a few weeks. While I know it's sarcasm, there's also a bit of truth behind it - accusing me of not wanting to hang out, when I'm honest to god, really fucking busy. And told her that, several times. And in other parts of the year, I'm perfectly content with seeing friends every few weeks - can an extroverted person help explain to me if they think this is unreasonable for someone who is in a competitive grad school program full time, and work 25-30 hours a week, and has other friends, and also needs to recuperate with some alone time?
I'm a pretty introverted person. I like people, a lot. I really do. But after social interaction, I do need some alone time. I function better when I "charge myself" so to speak.
How do I politely tell her and convince her that I do care about her as a friend, but to suggest she not take "no, I can't hang out" personally?
I agree with LN- you can't keep her from taking this personally, particularly because it is personal- you don't want to hang out with her, specifically (and I know that because you included details outside of the "I don't have time" aspect of this question). All you can do is set your own boundaries- hang out when you want, don't when you don't. If she can't get that message, it's not your fault.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:00 PM on May 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:00 PM on May 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
Have you tried planning with her to do something together in a few days or a week? Maybe if she had that to look forward to, she'd back off a bit.
posted by Carol Anne at 12:00 PM on May 16, 2008
posted by Carol Anne at 12:00 PM on May 16, 2008
This is a hard situation. I've recently ended a friendship with someone like this but it took almost a year to wean her off. The best thing for me was to stop making excuses (even real excuses like work), and just start saying no. Otherwise she would say something like "oh, you're busy tonight? what about tomorrow? no? what about brunch on Sunday?" I actually felt a lot less guilty and stressed out when I would just say "no, i can't" leave it at that. Plus, it took me out of the position of offering a future hang-out time.
posted by jrichards at 12:09 PM on May 16, 2008
posted by jrichards at 12:09 PM on May 16, 2008
If you tell her you're not going to be available for x time then IMO you're not obliged to even respond to her constant pestering, particularly childish/needy remarks about you not wanting to spend time with her. Just ignore her until she gets the message that you're unavailable, if that message also says 'you smell' to her then thats her problem, theres nothing you can do to change that attitude. In my experience the only way to get away from this behavior is to ignore them or be rude to them. Since you actually like her, ignoring is probably more polite, you have already said that you're not going to be available so its rather rude of her to keep asking.
Anyone who doesn't understand that you have a full time job and exams (I mean, this is your future) really isn't going to accept a polite message saying 'I like you but please leave me alone'.
I never understand why people feel the need to respond 'politely' to these pathetic mind games and guilt trips. Real friends don't try to guilt you into spending time with them. She needs to find friends like herself that need constant attention.
posted by missmagenta at 12:15 PM on May 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
Anyone who doesn't understand that you have a full time job and exams (I mean, this is your future) really isn't going to accept a polite message saying 'I like you but please leave me alone'.
I never understand why people feel the need to respond 'politely' to these pathetic mind games and guilt trips. Real friends don't try to guilt you into spending time with them. She needs to find friends like herself that need constant attention.
posted by missmagenta at 12:15 PM on May 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm an extrovert and for some perverse reason, my favorite people to hang with are introverts. When I was younger an introverted friend told me that they recharge by being alone and it wasn't that they didn't like me. I now try to tell my introverted friends to please tell me when they need alone time or time away from my sometimes-maybe-too-much extrovertedness. They are doing me and our friendship a service by reminding me and if this friend is a decent sort, she'll appreciate it too. Hopefully, she won't bristle at it.
Ironically enough, I have also been in your position - I have had a friend who was more(!) extroverted than I and also had a very small circle of friends. I found her exhausting at times and I think that has helped me relate. Good luck!
On preview, TPS makes a good point - setting boundaries is key.
posted by pointystick at 12:16 PM on May 16, 2008 [2 favorites]
Ironically enough, I have also been in your position - I have had a friend who was more(!) extroverted than I and also had a very small circle of friends. I found her exhausting at times and I think that has helped me relate. Good luck!
On preview, TPS makes a good point - setting boundaries is key.
posted by pointystick at 12:16 PM on May 16, 2008 [2 favorites]
I think Carol Anne has it. If you do like her in particular doses and when your life is at a good socializing point, then you can stave off her continual asking about your availability by letting her know you've set time aside for her. I do this with my mom, by emailing back, "I'll look that up for you on Saturday, and then Sunday is a good day for a phone date, since I'll be home doing laundry!" Note the positive phrasing that helps them feel more secure: the emphasis is on looking forward to seeing that person (but according to your own schedule).
posted by xo at 12:19 PM on May 16, 2008
posted by xo at 12:19 PM on May 16, 2008
Don't see her every week, but (if you value her as a friend), take the initiative in making plans. Call her every two weeks (or whenever) and invite her to do something. That way, she'll know that you're definitely interested in her.
Between those times, tell her you're busy. She won't think you're bullshitting her if you DO continue to be proactive about invitations.
Or at least, if you follow that route you'll be able to tell yourself you did everything you could to keep yourself and her happy.
Full disclosure: I'm clingy at times. But if I keep bugging someone, it's because I want a clear message from them that they care about me. If they just throw me a crumb once in a while, I'm content. Some people show their friendship in ways that are two subtle for me to get. I need a call, an email, an invitation... I've matured to the point where, if I don't get that stuff, I don't bug the person. But I still feel the urge.
It's very easy for a clinger and a non-clinger to fall into a pattern where the non-clinger never initiates contact because the clinger is constantly initiating contact. Meanwhile, the clinger is constantly initiating, because she fears the non-clinger never will. See if you can break this pattern.
posted by grumblebee at 12:30 PM on May 16, 2008 [9 favorites]
Between those times, tell her you're busy. She won't think you're bullshitting her if you DO continue to be proactive about invitations.
Or at least, if you follow that route you'll be able to tell yourself you did everything you could to keep yourself and her happy.
Full disclosure: I'm clingy at times. But if I keep bugging someone, it's because I want a clear message from them that they care about me. If they just throw me a crumb once in a while, I'm content. Some people show their friendship in ways that are two subtle for me to get. I need a call, an email, an invitation... I've matured to the point where, if I don't get that stuff, I don't bug the person. But I still feel the urge.
It's very easy for a clinger and a non-clinger to fall into a pattern where the non-clinger never initiates contact because the clinger is constantly initiating contact. Meanwhile, the clinger is constantly initiating, because she fears the non-clinger never will. See if you can break this pattern.
posted by grumblebee at 12:30 PM on May 16, 2008 [9 favorites]
This isn't the nicest way to deal with it, but you don't need to respond to every email. If you'd already told her you'd be busy for weeks at a time, don't respond to her messages about hanging out.
When you have time to hang out with her again, you can write or call and say, "Hey--sorry I've been incommunicado for the last couple of weeks. I thought I told you that I'd be swamped with work. Want to hang out?"
That way, you don't have to keep saying no and re-explaining yourself. Because (and this sounds really mean), writing back even to say no creates an opportunity for furthering the conversation, when clearly you just want to be left alone so you can get your stuff done.
posted by tk at 12:38 PM on May 16, 2008
When you have time to hang out with her again, you can write or call and say, "Hey--sorry I've been incommunicado for the last couple of weeks. I thought I told you that I'd be swamped with work. Want to hang out?"
That way, you don't have to keep saying no and re-explaining yourself. Because (and this sounds really mean), writing back even to say no creates an opportunity for furthering the conversation, when clearly you just want to be left alone so you can get your stuff done.
posted by tk at 12:38 PM on May 16, 2008
I totally agree with missmagenta about not responding during a period you've already said you'll be busy. Every time she sends out a "you must think I smell ha ha" note and you -react- to it, all you're doing is teaching her that she CAN get a response from you - even during those times you've said you'd be too busy - by sending you a message like that. As other folks have already said, it's not your responsibility to "manage" whether or not she takes something personally, nor is that even something you CAN control. Pretty basic behaviorist principles at work, I think - your response is in effect a "reward" for her behavior, so that behavior will continue to be repeated because it DOES get her something she wants. The sooner you can disconnect that "action - reward" chain, the sooner that behavior will eventually start to die off.
Of course this ought to be paired with reassurance that she IS your friend, but as per grumblebee, I think that ought to come in the form of you taking the initiative and suggesting times when you CAN hang out. Offer to do something together on a certain date, tell her you're looking forward to it but will be too busy for emails/chats in the meantime, and stick to that. Hopefully she'll eventually see that you do like her and will make time for her, but that it has to be on mutually agreeable terms and not something she can affect through little tugs at the ol' guilt-strings. Don't get drawn into those games, that only prolongs them and will probably leave you feeling more annoyed/resentful than fond of this person in the long run ...
posted by zeph at 12:48 PM on May 16, 2008
Of course this ought to be paired with reassurance that she IS your friend, but as per grumblebee, I think that ought to come in the form of you taking the initiative and suggesting times when you CAN hang out. Offer to do something together on a certain date, tell her you're looking forward to it but will be too busy for emails/chats in the meantime, and stick to that. Hopefully she'll eventually see that you do like her and will make time for her, but that it has to be on mutually agreeable terms and not something she can affect through little tugs at the ol' guilt-strings. Don't get drawn into those games, that only prolongs them and will probably leave you feeling more annoyed/resentful than fond of this person in the long run ...
posted by zeph at 12:48 PM on May 16, 2008
I've been in this situtation. And my response has been to gently explain that hey, it's great to be loved, but I can't be your only close friend. Gotta get out there and join a club or do something to make some other friends...or your good friend desuetude is going to be a basket-case of a stressed-out bad friend.
posted by desuetude at 1:03 PM on May 16, 2008
posted by desuetude at 1:03 PM on May 16, 2008
Not on the clingy-issue, but the smelly-issue; does she really think you think she smells? Here's how I handle stuff like that:
Out of the blue, when you hang out with her, ask what kind of shampoo/perfume/soap she uses, and compliment her on it. Tell her it smells really good. That way, you are arming her with confidence - she will know that you don't think she smells every time she uses said shampoo/perfume/soap. Everybody likes compliments.
Repeat as necessary.
Of course, this could backfire if she's super-insecure.
posted by jabberjaw at 1:09 PM on May 16, 2008
Out of the blue, when you hang out with her, ask what kind of shampoo/perfume/soap she uses, and compliment her on it. Tell her it smells really good. That way, you are arming her with confidence - she will know that you don't think she smells every time she uses said shampoo/perfume/soap. Everybody likes compliments.
Repeat as necessary.
Of course, this could backfire if she's super-insecure.
posted by jabberjaw at 1:09 PM on May 16, 2008
Completely, utterly agree with grumblebee. I'm an introvert and this is exactly how I handle my extrovert friends. You have to pre-empt them and volunteer a time before they do, because they will volunteer times that are earlier than you want and more bunched together more than you can recuperate. That way they know that you want to see them and you're not just brushing them off. Conversations go like this:
Friend: Do you wanna go do something this weekend?
Me: Oh, I can't this weekend, I'm really busy with _____. I should have time Saturday after next, though.
Or depending, sometimes I give them an actual date, like "that'll be done by the 29th." If it's work or school you can tell them exactly what you're busy with so they can't get the wrong idea. Some extroverts will ask anyway, just to have something to talk about or because they're curious, so have some sort of answer prepared; introvert busy is different than extrovert busy, so you might have to exaggerate how much you have on your plate for them to get how busy you feel. (Some extroverts will think that all you have to do is write a paper and see some colleagues that day, so why can't you just go out after?)
Basically, it's not enough to tell them you'll be "MIA for a few weeks." When does your work and school stuff end? Find it on a calendar, skip ahead a few days to make sure you'll have recuperated, then say, "I'm swamped with work/school the next couple weeks. Hey, lets go do [activity] on [date], okay?"
I agree with some of the advice above that you should generally tell your extroverted friends about your introversion and they will usually be happy to work around it. This girl in particular seems sort of insecure, though, so she might not be mature enough to not take it personally. She sounds like she might be one of those extroverts who seriously doesn't get that introverts really exist and they're not crazy. If you think she'd be receptive, go ahead and tell her, but otherwise just take the initiative to see her by providing the dates yourself.
posted by Nattie at 3:00 PM on May 16, 2008
Friend: Do you wanna go do something this weekend?
Me: Oh, I can't this weekend, I'm really busy with _____. I should have time Saturday after next, though.
Or depending, sometimes I give them an actual date, like "that'll be done by the 29th." If it's work or school you can tell them exactly what you're busy with so they can't get the wrong idea. Some extroverts will ask anyway, just to have something to talk about or because they're curious, so have some sort of answer prepared; introvert busy is different than extrovert busy, so you might have to exaggerate how much you have on your plate for them to get how busy you feel. (Some extroverts will think that all you have to do is write a paper and see some colleagues that day, so why can't you just go out after?)
Basically, it's not enough to tell them you'll be "MIA for a few weeks." When does your work and school stuff end? Find it on a calendar, skip ahead a few days to make sure you'll have recuperated, then say, "I'm swamped with work/school the next couple weeks. Hey, lets go do [activity] on [date], okay?"
I agree with some of the advice above that you should generally tell your extroverted friends about your introversion and they will usually be happy to work around it. This girl in particular seems sort of insecure, though, so she might not be mature enough to not take it personally. She sounds like she might be one of those extroverts who seriously doesn't get that introverts really exist and they're not crazy. If you think she'd be receptive, go ahead and tell her, but otherwise just take the initiative to see her by providing the dates yourself.
posted by Nattie at 3:00 PM on May 16, 2008
Go a step further than grumblee...
Call her now and set up time with her two weeks in advance. Don't do it 'every' two weeks. Within about 5-6 days of seeing her, tell her that you found another window on day two weeks from now.
posted by filmgeek at 5:44 PM on May 16, 2008
Call her now and set up time with her two weeks in advance. Don't do it 'every' two weeks. Within about 5-6 days of seeing her, tell her that you found another window on day two weeks from now.
posted by filmgeek at 5:44 PM on May 16, 2008
I totally agree with grumblebee. I have some clingy friends myself, and it's easy to fall into that routine of they always inviting me out and I vaguely agreeing but not trying really hard to. Looking back, I can see why some of my friends drifted away over the years. Don't let it go one-way. If you really value her friendship, set aside yourself some time.
posted by semi at 1:35 AM on May 17, 2008
posted by semi at 1:35 AM on May 17, 2008
I'm probably too late to provide any useful input, but here's a thought - be a little proactive.
You're reacting to her texting and messaging, always giving her the negative result she doesn't want. I'm willing to bet you'll get some peace of mind (and relief from her) if you text or message HER one day before she does you and say, "Hey - wow this grad stuff sucks! Really busy today but just thought I'd say 'hello' - talk to ya tommorow!"
That way she'll get that warm fuzzy that you were thinking about her and reaching out to her for even a tiny bit of communication for once instead of (as she perceives it) the other way around. I'm not implying you're doing anything wrong - she's the one with the insecurity and loneliness issues, but a little proactive 'friendliness' on your part may help things.
posted by matty at 9:04 AM on May 17, 2008
You're reacting to her texting and messaging, always giving her the negative result she doesn't want. I'm willing to bet you'll get some peace of mind (and relief from her) if you text or message HER one day before she does you and say, "Hey - wow this grad stuff sucks! Really busy today but just thought I'd say 'hello' - talk to ya tommorow!"
That way she'll get that warm fuzzy that you were thinking about her and reaching out to her for even a tiny bit of communication for once instead of (as she perceives it) the other way around. I'm not implying you're doing anything wrong - she's the one with the insecurity and loneliness issues, but a little proactive 'friendliness' on your part may help things.
posted by matty at 9:04 AM on May 17, 2008
You say you are busy and that's why you can't hang out, but then you say you are introverted and don't need connection all the time. So, I think if you tell her the deeper truth, she may be more respectful, stop bothering you, and realize it is nothing personal...
By giving her excuse after excuse she feels more rejected and then becomes more clingy. Even if you are busy, people are quick to know when it's not just that someone is busy that they don't want to hang out...
If someone kept saying they were busy and could never hang out everytime I asked, I would probably take it personally too and assume they just didn't like me, because I don't actually know what's going on, i wouldn't know it's actually that they just need a lot of alone time...And because your friend is clearly insecure, this would just make her more insecure and more needy.
Basically, you two have conflicting needs: She needs constant connection, and gets insecure when she doesn't get it. You need distance and feel threatened when you don't get your distance. She threatens your need for distance by being clingy, you threaten her need for connection by being distant. I think only if you both can be understanding of the other's needs can you actually have a real friendship...
And unless you care about her deeply, I don't see how a friendship like this can work because you will have to sit down and talk about this with her...tell her the total truth. How you want your alone time, but feel bad about it so say you are always busy instead of telling her what's really going on, and that's that you need alone time. Tell her also, that you wouldn't be telling her all this unless you valued the friendship and wanted it to keep growing.
Then, if you both are willing, you can both compromise a little to satisfy the others needs. Set a usual time once a week, or twice a week to hang out, and let her know you are there for her if she needs, but that you get overwhelmed by a lot of social interaction and needs lots of space, not because it's her, but because that's just how you operate.
hope that gives you some insight...
posted by lolovivi at 12:22 PM on May 18, 2008 [1 favorite]
By giving her excuse after excuse she feels more rejected and then becomes more clingy. Even if you are busy, people are quick to know when it's not just that someone is busy that they don't want to hang out...
If someone kept saying they were busy and could never hang out everytime I asked, I would probably take it personally too and assume they just didn't like me, because I don't actually know what's going on, i wouldn't know it's actually that they just need a lot of alone time...And because your friend is clearly insecure, this would just make her more insecure and more needy.
Basically, you two have conflicting needs: She needs constant connection, and gets insecure when she doesn't get it. You need distance and feel threatened when you don't get your distance. She threatens your need for distance by being clingy, you threaten her need for connection by being distant. I think only if you both can be understanding of the other's needs can you actually have a real friendship...
And unless you care about her deeply, I don't see how a friendship like this can work because you will have to sit down and talk about this with her...tell her the total truth. How you want your alone time, but feel bad about it so say you are always busy instead of telling her what's really going on, and that's that you need alone time. Tell her also, that you wouldn't be telling her all this unless you valued the friendship and wanted it to keep growing.
Then, if you both are willing, you can both compromise a little to satisfy the others needs. Set a usual time once a week, or twice a week to hang out, and let her know you are there for her if she needs, but that you get overwhelmed by a lot of social interaction and needs lots of space, not because it's her, but because that's just how you operate.
hope that gives you some insight...
posted by lolovivi at 12:22 PM on May 18, 2008 [1 favorite]
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Keep yourself busy, so that when she text/calls/emails asking to hang out, you genuinely can't. She'll eventually find someone else to hang out with.
posted by LN at 11:46 AM on May 16, 2008