But I was born here!
May 1, 2008 10:50 AM Subscribe
Our daughter, 4 years old now, was born in California while my wife and I (both Canadians) were working legally in Los Angeles. She obviously has a US birth certificate and SIN but lives in Canada. Will this make things easier for her should she want to study in the US when she gets to University age or will it be of no advantage whatsoever?
Like Grither said, it will be advantageous because of the options it gives her, but it will realllly help when she graduates and is looking for a job. It's amazing how many hoops my international friends have to jump through to just work here, especially when you're first out of school and companies don't want to be bothered with that.
posted by Sreiny at 11:00 AM on May 1, 2008
posted by Sreiny at 11:00 AM on May 1, 2008
In both admissions processes and fee structures, residency is much more important than citizenship. State schools, for instance, are often obligated to reserve a certain number of places for in-state students, and they have much lower tuitions for in-state students. Since your daughter is not a resident of an American state, this won't help her at all. Similarly, many private school seek certain levels of geographical diversity in their undergraduate populations, and actual place of residence is more important than citizenship.
The one place where it could help her would be if the nutcases running this country decide to fubar immigration rules even more than they are currently fubared. Not having to worry about visas and quotas would be great. I know it's not an issue for Canadians now, but in 15 years, who knows?
posted by mr_roboto at 11:05 AM on May 1, 2008
The one place where it could help her would be if the nutcases running this country decide to fubar immigration rules even more than they are currently fubared. Not having to worry about visas and quotas would be great. I know it's not an issue for Canadians now, but in 15 years, who knows?
posted by mr_roboto at 11:05 AM on May 1, 2008
Some scholarships/fellowships/grants are only available to U.S. citizens.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 11:09 AM on May 1, 2008
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 11:09 AM on May 1, 2008
To follow up mr_roboto's residency comment, being a citizen means she can easily move to [whichever state she wants to study in] since she is a US citizen, work any old job for a year to gain residency status then apply for college.
Does she have a US passport? I assume that having a passport kind of solidifies your citizenship status, it does for UK citizenship anyway.
posted by Joh at 11:18 AM on May 1, 2008
Does she have a US passport? I assume that having a passport kind of solidifies your citizenship status, it does for UK citizenship anyway.
posted by Joh at 11:18 AM on May 1, 2008
Response by poster: @Grither - + Sreiny : are you both saying that she will not need a work permit to work in the US or just that it will be easier for her to obtain one?
posted by Umhlangan at 11:21 AM on May 1, 2008
posted by Umhlangan at 11:21 AM on May 1, 2008
If she has a Social Security Number and card, she won't need a work permit.
posted by yohko at 11:25 AM on May 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by yohko at 11:25 AM on May 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
She won't need a work permit. She can work in both Canada and the US without restrictions.
Does she have a US social security number (SSN), a social insurance number (SIN), or both? Usually you apply for SSN at the hospital when the kid is born, so she should have one of those. If she doesn't have a SSN, apply now. When you get the card, you will see that it will have no annotations on the front of the card (just a number and a signature line), which means she can work in the US unrestricted.
You should also get her a Canadian citizenship card, Canadian passport, and her SIN card if she doesn't have those already.
Collecting all the paperwork for a dual citizen kid is a pain in the ass but it will be worth it!
posted by crazycanuck at 11:28 AM on May 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
Does she have a US social security number (SSN), a social insurance number (SIN), or both? Usually you apply for SSN at the hospital when the kid is born, so she should have one of those. If she doesn't have a SSN, apply now. When you get the card, you will see that it will have no annotations on the front of the card (just a number and a signature line), which means she can work in the US unrestricted.
You should also get her a Canadian citizenship card, Canadian passport, and her SIN card if she doesn't have those already.
Collecting all the paperwork for a dual citizen kid is a pain in the ass but it will be worth it!
posted by crazycanuck at 11:28 AM on May 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
Oh, do I wish I were in your daughter's situation! As mentioned, it will be great for work, but it's also worth noting that some US schools have admissions policies that are need-blind for US citizens but not internationals.
posted by goingonit at 11:40 AM on May 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by goingonit at 11:40 AM on May 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: @Crazycanuck: She has a SSN and the card. Sorry, the SIN is the Canadian version obviously. All the Canadian paperwork is on order.
Well, this certainly seems a lot more advantageous than we had initially thought.
posted by Umhlangan at 11:40 AM on May 1, 2008
Well, this certainly seems a lot more advantageous than we had initially thought.
posted by Umhlangan at 11:40 AM on May 1, 2008
It will make it unambiguously easier in the sense that she won't need any sort of visa, and would be able to hold any sort of employment while she was studying, and will be eligible for whatever federal financial assistance there is in 14 years.
Guessing:
She might find it easier to be admitted to competitive schools because students from Canada might be under-represented. Same as being from Montana. On the other hand, students from Canada might be well-represented or over-represented in the applicant pool, in which case it would be irrelevant or a hindrance respectively.
She will have to pay more at any public university, because she will not be a state resident anywhere. States generally are quite strict about who qualifies as a state resident for tuition purposes, and for the most part see through plans to quickly establish residency just to get cheaper tuition at the school you decided to go to.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:41 AM on May 1, 2008
Guessing:
She might find it easier to be admitted to competitive schools because students from Canada might be under-represented. Same as being from Montana. On the other hand, students from Canada might be well-represented or over-represented in the applicant pool, in which case it would be irrelevant or a hindrance respectively.
She will have to pay more at any public university, because she will not be a state resident anywhere. States generally are quite strict about who qualifies as a state resident for tuition purposes, and for the most part see through plans to quickly establish residency just to get cheaper tuition at the school you decided to go to.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:41 AM on May 1, 2008
When you get the card, you will see that it will have no annotations on the front of the card (just a number and a signature line), which means she can work in the US unrestricted.
If your daughter is a U.S. citizen, she can work unrestricted in the U.S. regardless of what the Social Security card says.
posted by oaf at 11:51 AM on May 1, 2008
If your daughter is a U.S. citizen, she can work unrestricted in the U.S. regardless of what the Social Security card says.
posted by oaf at 11:51 AM on May 1, 2008
Umhlangan: I don't think you've quite come to grips with the idea that somebody born on US soil is a US citizen. Not some sort of second-class permanent non-citizen resident like most countries would make her. As far as I am aware, she is just as much an American as I am, and I was born and raised here, as were my parents and their parents before them.
Your daughter is an American. She can work here, live here, play here, and do whatever the heck she wants.
The US gets flack about the citizenship process because we have issues with Mexico. That noise masks the fact that our immigration and citizenship policies are pretty much the most liberal in the western world. I'll say it one more time so maybe it will sink in well; your daughter is as much an American as George W. Bush or Britney Spears. Okay, so maybe those arent great examples but you get the point.
Essentially, your daughter could be President some day.
posted by Justinian at 11:52 AM on May 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
Your daughter is an American. She can work here, live here, play here, and do whatever the heck she wants.
The US gets flack about the citizenship process because we have issues with Mexico. That noise masks the fact that our immigration and citizenship policies are pretty much the most liberal in the western world. I'll say it one more time so maybe it will sink in well; your daughter is as much an American as George W. Bush or Britney Spears. Okay, so maybe those arent great examples but you get the point.
Essentially, your daughter could be President some day.
posted by Justinian at 11:52 AM on May 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
She will not need a permit/visa to live and/or work anywhere in the US or US territories -- she is a US Citizen by birthright, and is entitled to exactly the same rights granted to someone born in the US to US parents -- forever. Keep her US birth certificate and Social Security card in a safe place, and think about getting her a US passport the next time it's convenient for you to do so.
Remember the paperwork (and probably the employer sponsorship, and inability to easily job-hop) that you had to deal with before legally working in Los Angeles? She'll see none of that. She'll just show her employer a US Passport (or a drivers license and a Social Security card), and sign an I-9, like everyone else who was born here.
If she decides she wants to live in the US, that's obviously valuable. People pay millions of dollars to try to come to the US, even Canadians who have the benefit of NAFTA visas.
As for University... if she decides to study in the US, she won't need to get a student visa first (and she'll be allowed to work for any employer while she's here, which not all student visa-holders can do). But because her high school transcript is coming from a non-US institution, it is likely that she'll be treated as an international student by the admissions department, regardless of her citizenship. Of course, some schools do things differently, but unless she's looking to attend West Point (which has a citizenship requirement), she should be treated more or less like any other Canadian resident applying that year.
posted by toxic at 11:57 AM on May 1, 2008
Remember the paperwork (and probably the employer sponsorship, and inability to easily job-hop) that you had to deal with before legally working in Los Angeles? She'll see none of that. She'll just show her employer a US Passport (or a drivers license and a Social Security card), and sign an I-9, like everyone else who was born here.
If she decides she wants to live in the US, that's obviously valuable. People pay millions of dollars to try to come to the US, even Canadians who have the benefit of NAFTA visas.
As for University... if she decides to study in the US, she won't need to get a student visa first (and she'll be allowed to work for any employer while she's here, which not all student visa-holders can do). But because her high school transcript is coming from a non-US institution, it is likely that she'll be treated as an international student by the admissions department, regardless of her citizenship. Of course, some schools do things differently, but unless she's looking to attend West Point (which has a citizenship requirement), she should be treated more or less like any other Canadian resident applying that year.
posted by toxic at 11:57 AM on May 1, 2008
Related advice - don't tell the US Border Patrol that she's a dual citizen. For some reason it freaks them out. I'm a dual citizen of the US and Canada and I have had border guards tell me (and I quote) "the United States doesn't recognize dual citizenship". This is patently untrue. Tell them you're the citizenship of whatever passport you're carrying. That makes it easier and they don't get confused and cranky.
posted by crazylegs at 12:06 PM on May 1, 2008
posted by crazylegs at 12:06 PM on May 1, 2008
I'm a dual citizen of the US and Canada and I have had border guards tell me (and I quote) "the United States doesn't recognize dual citizenship". This is patently untrue.
It is 100% true. If you are a citizen of the U.S., you can't present any other country's passport to U.S. officials, because you're a U.S. citizen, and all other citizenships are irrelevant as far as the U.S. government is concerned.
posted by oaf at 12:10 PM on May 1, 2008
It is 100% true. If you are a citizen of the U.S., you can't present any other country's passport to U.S. officials, because you're a U.S. citizen, and all other citizenships are irrelevant as far as the U.S. government is concerned.
posted by oaf at 12:10 PM on May 1, 2008
Oaf's right. The US does not recognize dual citizenship, but it is not considered illegal for US citizens to have a second citizenship. A person born within the territory of the US (with a few exceptions, like children of ambassadors) is considered a natural born citizen of the United States with full citizenship rights, thanks to the 14th Amendment.
posted by thewittyname at 12:23 PM on May 1, 2008
posted by thewittyname at 12:23 PM on May 1, 2008
I am in the opposite situation. I was born in Canada, but my mother is American, so I have dual citizenship. I am now a grad student in the US, and it was much, much simpler to apply for admission and for scholarships as a US citizen than as a foreign student. No visas, immigration hassles, etc etc.
As oaf and thewittyname have remarked, the US government doesn't recognize my Canadian citizenship, but that's fine. I just present my US passport when I enter the US, and my Canadian passport when I enter Canada.
posted by number9dream at 12:37 PM on May 1, 2008
As oaf and thewittyname have remarked, the US government doesn't recognize my Canadian citizenship, but that's fine. I just present my US passport when I enter the US, and my Canadian passport when I enter Canada.
posted by number9dream at 12:37 PM on May 1, 2008
Response by poster: Thanks everyone. I certainly was not aware of the fact that she was by default a US citizen. This really does give her a lot of options.
posted by Umhlangan at 1:45 PM on May 1, 2008
posted by Umhlangan at 1:45 PM on May 1, 2008
Would she lose her citizenship if she doesn't take some affirmative step to claim it by the time she's 18 (or 21, something like that)? I don't know if it's true, but that's how I've heard it works with non-resident children born on US soil of foreign parents.
posted by mahamandarava at 2:04 PM on May 1, 2008
posted by mahamandarava at 2:04 PM on May 1, 2008
I'm a dual, born and raised in Canada but went to college in the U.S. The biggest benefit I had over my Canadian friends at the same college for me was that I qualified for a lot of federal financial aid. I would have been able to work off-campus, too. (I didn't have all my documentation freshman year and was only allowed to work on-campus.) It's definitely beneficial to be a citizen.
posted by wallaby at 2:57 PM on May 1, 2008
posted by wallaby at 2:57 PM on May 1, 2008
mahamandarava: No. Her entrance into the world while her mother was upon US soil is all the affirmative step she needed to take. (cite, cite) . Her parents' citizenship does not matter. Neither does their legal status in the US at the time. If you are born here, regardless of how that came to happen, you are a citizen.
Her California birth certificate establishes her citizenship, as far as the US is concerned. It will do this forever (or until Congress changes the rules). She may need to prove that she is the person described by that certificate, which is easier with a passport (with photo).
Once she is 18, it is possible, but non-trivial, for her to renounce her US citizenship. Outside of some highly paid American expatriates, who do this primarily for tax reasons, it is very rare. While she is a minor, nobody can renounce her US citizenship for her, not even her parents.
posted by toxic at 2:59 PM on May 1, 2008
Her California birth certificate establishes her citizenship, as far as the US is concerned. It will do this forever (or until Congress changes the rules). She may need to prove that she is the person described by that certificate, which is easier with a passport (with photo).
Once she is 18, it is possible, but non-trivial, for her to renounce her US citizenship. Outside of some highly paid American expatriates, who do this primarily for tax reasons, it is very rare. While she is a minor, nobody can renounce her US citizenship for her, not even her parents.
posted by toxic at 2:59 PM on May 1, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Grither at 10:55 AM on May 1, 2008