Can I say goodbye to XP worry-free?
April 29, 2008 10:13 AM Subscribe
Does anybody ever regret switching to a Mac?
My PC is on its last legs, and I'm starting to explore alternatives. I'm intrigued by the iMac, but I've never really used a Mac before. I've read a ton of things about how easy it is to switch, how great Macs are, and how I'll become a better human being, singlehandedly save the planet, and start winning Nobel Prizes and the lottery if only I would use a Mac, but I'm interested in the other side, if there is one.
Has anybody made the switch from PC to Mac and regretted it, and switched back? If so, why?
My computing needs are fairly basic - music (using iTunes, kinda non-negotiable), photos (Photoshop but I'm open to alternatives there), word processing, some streaming video. I'm not a gamer, so gaming performance is not an issue for me.
The one thing I can't find anything on is dual user accounts - my XP box lets me and my wife maintain separate accounts that look/feel completely different, and run some different programs, which is a very good thing indeed. Does Mac offer this or something like this?
My PC is on its last legs, and I'm starting to explore alternatives. I'm intrigued by the iMac, but I've never really used a Mac before. I've read a ton of things about how easy it is to switch, how great Macs are, and how I'll become a better human being, singlehandedly save the planet, and start winning Nobel Prizes and the lottery if only I would use a Mac, but I'm interested in the other side, if there is one.
Has anybody made the switch from PC to Mac and regretted it, and switched back? If so, why?
My computing needs are fairly basic - music (using iTunes, kinda non-negotiable), photos (Photoshop but I'm open to alternatives there), word processing, some streaming video. I'm not a gamer, so gaming performance is not an issue for me.
The one thing I can't find anything on is dual user accounts - my XP box lets me and my wife maintain separate accounts that look/feel completely different, and run some different programs, which is a very good thing indeed. Does Mac offer this or something like this?
OS X, being Unix, has as many user accounts as you want, and all settings are of course separate for each one.
Most of the switchbacks I've known are due to people getting fed up with little differences they never got used to - "Where's the start menu!?" kind of stuff - or, more usually, due to needing/wanting specific software that they couldn't replace, or weren't happy with the replacement for.
posted by Tomorrowful at 10:18 AM on April 29, 2008
Most of the switchbacks I've known are due to people getting fed up with little differences they never got used to - "Where's the start menu!?" kind of stuff - or, more usually, due to needing/wanting specific software that they couldn't replace, or weren't happy with the replacement for.
posted by Tomorrowful at 10:18 AM on April 29, 2008
Of course some people regret it. Anything different can be viewed as "bad."
That said, I love my MacBook (but would have gotten an iMac if travel weren't a concern). However, there's the occasional little frustration. Finder has issues (no "cut" command? WTF?) and you have to deal with Office 2004 being kind of inefficient, as it's written for pre-Intel architecture and runs in an emulator. It might be something as small as having difficulty getting used to the location of the Command key (though that can be switched in the Keyboard preferences pane).
There are things about the Mac experience that aren't ideal, but I'd say that on the whole the tradeoff is WAY in Apple's favor over XP.
posted by DoctorFedora at 10:18 AM on April 29, 2008
That said, I love my MacBook (but would have gotten an iMac if travel weren't a concern). However, there's the occasional little frustration. Finder has issues (no "cut" command? WTF?) and you have to deal with Office 2004 being kind of inefficient, as it's written for pre-Intel architecture and runs in an emulator. It might be something as small as having difficulty getting used to the location of the Command key (though that can be switched in the Keyboard preferences pane).
There are things about the Mac experience that aren't ideal, but I'd say that on the whole the tradeoff is WAY in Apple's favor over XP.
posted by DoctorFedora at 10:18 AM on April 29, 2008
OS X offers a superior user account system than XP or Vista, FWIW.
No, i've never heard of anyone regretting the switch, considering you can still run windows.
posted by sindas at 10:18 AM on April 29, 2008
No, i've never heard of anyone regretting the switch, considering you can still run windows.
posted by sindas at 10:18 AM on April 29, 2008
Macs give you separate user accounts, and are simply awesome for everything you mentioned, especially Photoshop. If you want to have a fallback, just install Windows via Parallels or BootCamp and you can switch to it in a pinch.
I'm a long-term PC geek, and so are all my friends. I got a MacBook 2 years ago, and since then 5 of my friends have adopted Macs and no one is thinking about using a PC again for personal use.
posted by chudmonkey at 10:18 AM on April 29, 2008
I'm a long-term PC geek, and so are all my friends. I got a MacBook 2 years ago, and since then 5 of my friends have adopted Macs and no one is thinking about using a PC again for personal use.
posted by chudmonkey at 10:18 AM on April 29, 2008
I found that Mac Mail is and was harder for me to get used to and in some ways is still less user friendly than on my Windows XP machine at work. At the risk of sounding like a Mac zealot, though, I went through three Windows PC's in five years or so and switched, and just find so often it's been great for me. My folks in their 70's just switched and feel the same way.
I think it helps also that Apple has stores in a lot of places where there is help. My mom went in for weekly tutorials for a month and found it useful, though likely somewhat unnecessary.
My overwhelming favorite thing is how well iTunes works with Airport's in my home. I have three in different rooms and listen to music constantly now.
posted by docpops at 10:19 AM on April 29, 2008
I think it helps also that Apple has stores in a lot of places where there is help. My mom went in for weekly tutorials for a month and found it useful, though likely somewhat unnecessary.
My overwhelming favorite thing is how well iTunes works with Airport's in my home. I have three in different rooms and listen to music constantly now.
posted by docpops at 10:19 AM on April 29, 2008
My chief complaints with OS X are similar to my complaints with other OS's - it doesn't do everything perfectly. That is not to say that I regret owning a mac, or dislike using it for most of the computer work I do.
Sometimes when I'm stuck on a windows machine, I wish I has access to linux or cygwin (*nix environment for windows). Sometimes when I'm stuck with nothing but my mac, I find certain tasks annoying and wish I had my windows machine handy.. etc. etc.
I suspect, based on your outline of things that you do use your computer for, you won't have any trouble with the switch. OS X definitely handles multiple user accounts.
posted by mbatch at 10:21 AM on April 29, 2008
Sometimes when I'm stuck on a windows machine, I wish I has access to linux or cygwin (*nix environment for windows). Sometimes when I'm stuck with nothing but my mac, I find certain tasks annoying and wish I had my windows machine handy.. etc. etc.
I suspect, based on your outline of things that you do use your computer for, you won't have any trouble with the switch. OS X definitely handles multiple user accounts.
posted by mbatch at 10:21 AM on April 29, 2008
I installed XP on my newest Mac via Boot Camp, and the only thing I ever use XP for is Windows games. That's it.
posted by Prospero at 10:22 AM on April 29, 2008
posted by Prospero at 10:22 AM on April 29, 2008
re: user accounts - yes, you can have many. There's a feature called "fast user switching" which lets you quickly switch to a different account from a menu in the top right. (And you get a nice eye candy screen transition effect too.)
re: word processing. On my last mac, I decided to go with iWork instead of MS Office. (It comes with Pages, Numbers and Keynote instead of Word, Excel and Powerpoint.) All the apps are superior to the MS offerings and AFAIK fully compatible.
posted by kamelhoecker at 10:26 AM on April 29, 2008
re: word processing. On my last mac, I decided to go with iWork instead of MS Office. (It comes with Pages, Numbers and Keynote instead of Word, Excel and Powerpoint.) All the apps are superior to the MS offerings and AFAIK fully compatible.
posted by kamelhoecker at 10:26 AM on April 29, 2008
When my lab bought a MacBook Pro, I was excited, and took it on a couple of trips. Even after allowing for time to get used to the interface and quirks, I don't like it. I find both windows xp or ubuntu linux to be better choices for me.
Apple achieves its simplicity by forcing all users to do things a certain way. For someone who likes to tweak a system to their exact specifications, the interface just isn't flexible enough.
posted by chrisamiller at 10:30 AM on April 29, 2008
Apple achieves its simplicity by forcing all users to do things a certain way. For someone who likes to tweak a system to their exact specifications, the interface just isn't flexible enough.
posted by chrisamiller at 10:30 AM on April 29, 2008
I switched back to Gentoo/Windows after a couple months because Tiger's performance was crap. Anytime it had to do something remotely stressful, the computer would just stop responding and give me that goddamn loading wheel. But I digress. Leopard is apparently much smoother, and I'm putting the blame on the Intel chipset.
This was my biggest concern, but I had a couple other mini-gripes:
All the music players on OSX are pretty full-featured. I'm familiar with foobar2000 on Windows, and there's nothing close to it on OSX. Since you're used to iTunes, that probably won't be an issue. Photoshop works beautifully on the Mac, and some people think Mac is the artist's computer of choice (I beg to differ, but hey.)
And finally, I couldn't get VLC and Mplayer working with all my desired codecs. For some reason, half the videos would play only on VLC and the other half would play only on Mplayer. I really wanted a Media Player Classic equivalent for OSX.
So if super lightweight apps are your thing, OSX could be a tough fit. I'll be trying Leopard this summer, so I'd love to be disproven about what I've said here.
posted by theiconoclast31 at 10:35 AM on April 29, 2008
This was my biggest concern, but I had a couple other mini-gripes:
All the music players on OSX are pretty full-featured. I'm familiar with foobar2000 on Windows, and there's nothing close to it on OSX. Since you're used to iTunes, that probably won't be an issue. Photoshop works beautifully on the Mac, and some people think Mac is the artist's computer of choice (I beg to differ, but hey.)
And finally, I couldn't get VLC and Mplayer working with all my desired codecs. For some reason, half the videos would play only on VLC and the other half would play only on Mplayer. I really wanted a Media Player Classic equivalent for OSX.
So if super lightweight apps are your thing, OSX could be a tough fit. I'll be trying Leopard this summer, so I'd love to be disproven about what I've said here.
posted by theiconoclast31 at 10:35 AM on April 29, 2008
I switched from PC to Mac. Actually I bought a MacBook but I still have a desktop PC. I like both. I'm of the opinion that I want to use a computer to do stuff and I don't really want to know the ins and outs of the OS. I love the simplicity of the Mac and that things just work (the vast majority of the time.) So Mac works for me, but I think I'll always have a PC desktop, but some of that might be that my wife is a Mac hater.
posted by ob at 10:40 AM on April 29, 2008
posted by ob at 10:40 AM on April 29, 2008
Some quick notes on my less than overwhelmed experience switching to Mac.
I'm a technically savvy power user with a history of windows and linux.
Looking back after about 4 months I'm not that excited.
I like that the wireless connects very fast and with less problems than my previous experiences. I really like that.
The OS is not very important for using the internet or office like activities since those experiences are determined by the browser (Firefox in my case) or your office suite. For those activities it doesn't matter.
One of the visible core facilities that an OS provides is a way to interact with files and data. I actively dislike Finder, Mac OSX's equivalent of Windows' explorer. It presents me with less information than I need although I have a humongous screen. It doesn't give me the overview and control I need. To me Finder is not innovative in any way. That was a big let down.
The Mac feels to me as a lock-in oriented, low user-control platform; you're supposed to use iTunes f.i. In that respect it's not any better imo than Windows. Whether you like that is subjective. I dislike most applications that are provided by Apple.
An obvious cost of switching to any OS is that you'll have to learn and find a whole new application eco system to supplant all your trusted choices. That's not the fault of OS X of course.
Having a Mac is definitely more sexy. It's much better as a lifestyle product.
Just a counterpoint to all the evangelists.
posted by jouke at 10:42 AM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm a technically savvy power user with a history of windows and linux.
Looking back after about 4 months I'm not that excited.
I like that the wireless connects very fast and with less problems than my previous experiences. I really like that.
The OS is not very important for using the internet or office like activities since those experiences are determined by the browser (Firefox in my case) or your office suite. For those activities it doesn't matter.
One of the visible core facilities that an OS provides is a way to interact with files and data. I actively dislike Finder, Mac OSX's equivalent of Windows' explorer. It presents me with less information than I need although I have a humongous screen. It doesn't give me the overview and control I need. To me Finder is not innovative in any way. That was a big let down.
The Mac feels to me as a lock-in oriented, low user-control platform; you're supposed to use iTunes f.i. In that respect it's not any better imo than Windows. Whether you like that is subjective. I dislike most applications that are provided by Apple.
An obvious cost of switching to any OS is that you'll have to learn and find a whole new application eco system to supplant all your trusted choices. That's not the fault of OS X of course.
Having a Mac is definitely more sexy. It's much better as a lifestyle product.
Just a counterpoint to all the evangelists.
posted by jouke at 10:42 AM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
I had a mac. Used it for about 9 months and went back to a pc. It just semed like alot of trouble to try and do anything. I did not like the photo program, missed my picasa too much. Once I found it getting slow, really slow, I just gave up on it and went back to a xp system. I know I'm a rarity and I probably didn't try super hard to work out the problems but it's a mac! There weren't supposed to be problems and I didn't feel like messing with it. Easier for me to switch back. Haven't regreted it at all.
posted by pearlybob at 10:43 AM on April 29, 2008
posted by pearlybob at 10:43 AM on April 29, 2008
"Word processing" is one of those things that everybody puts on their list of "basic mom-and-pop" computing tasks, and it's pretty much assumed that all platforms can step up to the plate there -- "Yeh, I have my grammy on NeXTSTEP/BeOS/Linux variant/My Amiga/Mac OS 7 for just a little light web browsing and word processing". The assumption is wrong.
If you're the type who really hammers a word processor, especially dealing with other people, the Mac isn't quite up to it. Seriously, there are a lot of options, and all of them have various horror omissions or just aren't up to the task. Microsoft Office Mac in particular is a buggy hunk o' shit, especially compared to Office 2007. There are a couple of specialised tools for authors that are well recommended, but they're not generic word processors.
In short, if "word processing" is vital, be wary. I've used Macs since 1992, have great affection for them and what they're trying to do, but even I have a Thinkpad for word processing, and I'll defend Word 2007 PC with the same passion I used to defend the lack of a Terminal and a one-button mouse :)
posted by bonaldi at 10:44 AM on April 29, 2008
If you're the type who really hammers a word processor, especially dealing with other people, the Mac isn't quite up to it. Seriously, there are a lot of options, and all of them have various horror omissions or just aren't up to the task. Microsoft Office Mac in particular is a buggy hunk o' shit, especially compared to Office 2007. There are a couple of specialised tools for authors that are well recommended, but they're not generic word processors.
In short, if "word processing" is vital, be wary. I've used Macs since 1992, have great affection for them and what they're trying to do, but even I have a Thinkpad for word processing, and I'll defend Word 2007 PC with the same passion I used to defend the lack of a Terminal and a one-button mouse :)
posted by bonaldi at 10:44 AM on April 29, 2008
seconding jouke on Finder. To this day it's an obtuse, confusing feature that I forgot I simply gave up on trying to understand.
posted by docpops at 10:47 AM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by docpops at 10:47 AM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
You can always switch to a Mac and have it run a non-Mac OS [Windows or Linux] I switched a year ago and the only complaint I have is that I can't play Starcraft on the Mac because some aspect of the hardware or software prevents the game from running.
posted by sciurus at 10:49 AM on April 29, 2008
posted by sciurus at 10:49 AM on April 29, 2008
The biggest thing missing from the mac laptops - a Trackpoint.
The biggest downside to a mac - $$$
posted by caddis at 10:49 AM on April 29, 2008
The biggest downside to a mac - $$$
posted by caddis at 10:49 AM on April 29, 2008
Yes. I switched to a Mac iBook for about a year and a half in college (starting in 2003) and switched back about a year and a half later, when my Mac died and it couldn't be resurrected. I still have the same PC that I bought in 2005 to replace that thing. I've never had a PC that acted as finicky and difficult as that iBook.
Plus, since I was a broke college student, I decided not to go with any "options" -- like a CD burner, for example. What a stupid mistake. It was very difficult to back up my data in my usual way and I lost almost everything when it died. Let's not talk about how I lost two chapters of my senior thesis during the debacle. Mostly my fault, but it turned me off of Macs for good.
posted by k8lin at 10:57 AM on April 29, 2008
Plus, since I was a broke college student, I decided not to go with any "options" -- like a CD burner, for example. What a stupid mistake. It was very difficult to back up my data in my usual way and I lost almost everything when it died. Let's not talk about how I lost two chapters of my senior thesis during the debacle. Mostly my fault, but it turned me off of Macs for good.
posted by k8lin at 10:57 AM on April 29, 2008
I am a new Mac user since buying a macbook last August. I do like it, although I'm not really sure why. The lack of a "right-mouse button" is the biggest pain-in-the-ass. I use mostly Linux at work but still have Windows XP machines at home. One of the things I like about the Macbook is that it doesn't come pre-installed with all kinds of free trial programs, which seems to be part of the business model now for low-cost Windows laptops. The one application I have not been able to find for my macbook is a program that reads and edits Microsoft Project schedules; if that were a more critical application for me it would be a showstopper, but it's not.
posted by thomas144 at 11:05 AM on April 29, 2008
posted by thomas144 at 11:05 AM on April 29, 2008
After being a Windows user exclusively for the last several years, I decided to buy a Mac Mini about a year ago. Love the hardware, but I wound up installing XP via Bootcamp and use that almost exclusively due to a lot of little annoyances, such as:
The Mac OS seems to be all about the keyboard shortcuts and not right-click menus, and I find I'm a LOT more efficient with the latter. Lack of "Cut" in Finder. Lack of verification of cutting. If you copy & paste/cut & paste into a folder with the same filenames, the file comparison & overwriting choices are sorely lacking and don't make it clear if you're overwriting the same file or not. If you Cut too many/too large files, the "Cut" will fail with no notice to the user (think this happens when you exceed memory?). Typically the Mac version of homegrown freeware apps I used were terrible with multiple windows that could not be docked. Scratchy CDs that were barely readable in XP and I'd have to kill in Task Manager caused complete system lockups on the Mac requiring reboots. And it isn't intuitive how to format drives or save video files on the Mac so that they're "system agnostic"- on two external drives I had to copy off all files, reformat, and copy files back as the default drive formatting in Mac makes the drive read-only on other OSes (and I still don't know how to open the movie files I saved in Quicktime on my PC- Quicktime for PC doesn't do it and there's no filename extension).
Some of these complaints aThe OS itself is easy to use and the built in included software was great (Garage Band, Movie Maker), but for what I wanted (or had grown accustomed to) Windows XP was a better choice.
posted by Challahtronix at 11:16 AM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
The Mac OS seems to be all about the keyboard shortcuts and not right-click menus, and I find I'm a LOT more efficient with the latter. Lack of "Cut" in Finder. Lack of verification of cutting. If you copy & paste/cut & paste into a folder with the same filenames, the file comparison & overwriting choices are sorely lacking and don't make it clear if you're overwriting the same file or not. If you Cut too many/too large files, the "Cut" will fail with no notice to the user (think this happens when you exceed memory?). Typically the Mac version of homegrown freeware apps I used were terrible with multiple windows that could not be docked. Scratchy CDs that were barely readable in XP and I'd have to kill in Task Manager caused complete system lockups on the Mac requiring reboots. And it isn't intuitive how to format drives or save video files on the Mac so that they're "system agnostic"- on two external drives I had to copy off all files, reformat, and copy files back as the default drive formatting in Mac makes the drive read-only on other OSes (and I still don't know how to open the movie files I saved in Quicktime on my PC- Quicktime for PC doesn't do it and there's no filename extension).
Some of these complaints aThe OS itself is easy to use and the built in included software was great (Garage Band, Movie Maker), but for what I wanted (or had grown accustomed to) Windows XP was a better choice.
posted by Challahtronix at 11:16 AM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
You can always switch to a Mac and have it run a non-Mac OS [Windows or Linux]
Why on earth would you pay a ridiculous premium for Apple hardware if you're not going to use OSX? This is bad advice.
posted by chrisamiller at 11:19 AM on April 29, 2008
Why on earth would you pay a ridiculous premium for Apple hardware if you're not going to use OSX? This is bad advice.
posted by chrisamiller at 11:19 AM on April 29, 2008
I regret it. My macbook shipped with defective memory (resulting in crashes every 10 minutes), subsequent trips to the Mac Idiot bar resulted in a broken mic. I made them take it back and give me a whole MacBook (it was like dealing with Xerox - not one apology for their defective product, nor for the lost productivity and frustration). Then my hard drive melted down and could not be mounted. There was some suggestion this was a common problem (according to user forums) and I lost 6 months of documents. Now it works, but office doesn't perfrom as well on a Mac. It crashes alot, at least as much as my PC did. Odd quirky things that no one can explain happen all the time (why is MacMail consuming 840 mb of system memory?!). I have not switched back over, but will cross that bridge when I buy my next computer.
posted by zia at 11:25 AM on April 29, 2008
posted by zia at 11:25 AM on April 29, 2008
I use both at work. I couldnt use a mac full time because:
1. No right click is frustrating and I refuse to carry around a seperate mouse.
2. The Apple way or the higheway approach to how everything works.
3. Strangely enough performance. Perhaps this is an issue with the slightly older hardware I use.
4. Apps. I find a lot of little apps I need arent freeware, theyre pricey shareware. I shoudlnt need to shell out 20-30 dollars for every little utility out there because there's no free alternative. The mac ecosystem is full of people with lots of disposable income and the software pricing reflects this.
5. Too dumbed down. I hate having my hand held, although I imagine for non-technical people this is a pretty big plus.
6. Warranty issues. Having to drive a big friggin iMac desktop to the Apple store because they wouldnt let me ship it is a serious dealbreaker, at least for business use.
7. I stongly prefer the Windows or KDE desktops. They make sense to me and give me a certian amount of flexibility and power.
8. Vendor lock in. Oh man, I dont believe how non-upgradable these things are. Apple parts, especially RAM, are a pretty big rip-off which is a serious offense after paying a huge premium just for the machine itself.
9. Licensing. Sorry, but you wont let me virtualize the OS? Or run it on non-apple hardware? Craziness.
10. The spinning pinwheel. Why cant I just hit some keyboard combination and see a GUI task manager like windows? Instead I need to somehow get the terminal up (if it lets me) and type in 'top.'
11. Software. I own a lot of win32 licenses. This may not be a concern for a lot of people.
12. Hardware. I have a lot of oddball hardware and like playing with gadgets. People complain about XP compatibility. Get used to being told a lot of toys you want are simply not supported. Or half-assed supported.
13. Money. I own a 440 dollar HP laptop. Thats practically sales tax on your fancy mac. My extra monehy goes into savings or pays for trips and nice dinners. You may like working for a mac. I dont.
posted by damn dirty ape at 11:35 AM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
1. No right click is frustrating and I refuse to carry around a seperate mouse.
2. The Apple way or the higheway approach to how everything works.
3. Strangely enough performance. Perhaps this is an issue with the slightly older hardware I use.
4. Apps. I find a lot of little apps I need arent freeware, theyre pricey shareware. I shoudlnt need to shell out 20-30 dollars for every little utility out there because there's no free alternative. The mac ecosystem is full of people with lots of disposable income and the software pricing reflects this.
5. Too dumbed down. I hate having my hand held, although I imagine for non-technical people this is a pretty big plus.
6. Warranty issues. Having to drive a big friggin iMac desktop to the Apple store because they wouldnt let me ship it is a serious dealbreaker, at least for business use.
7. I stongly prefer the Windows or KDE desktops. They make sense to me and give me a certian amount of flexibility and power.
8. Vendor lock in. Oh man, I dont believe how non-upgradable these things are. Apple parts, especially RAM, are a pretty big rip-off which is a serious offense after paying a huge premium just for the machine itself.
9. Licensing. Sorry, but you wont let me virtualize the OS? Or run it on non-apple hardware? Craziness.
10. The spinning pinwheel. Why cant I just hit some keyboard combination and see a GUI task manager like windows? Instead I need to somehow get the terminal up (if it lets me) and type in 'top.'
11. Software. I own a lot of win32 licenses. This may not be a concern for a lot of people.
12. Hardware. I have a lot of oddball hardware and like playing with gadgets. People complain about XP compatibility. Get used to being told a lot of toys you want are simply not supported. Or half-assed supported.
13. Money. I own a 440 dollar HP laptop. Thats practically sales tax on your fancy mac. My extra monehy goes into savings or pays for trips and nice dinners. You may like working for a mac. I dont.
posted by damn dirty ape at 11:35 AM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
Ah, forgot one other positive thing about my Macbook Pro: two finger scrolling on the touchpad. That's a very intuitive feature that I got used to immediately and would sorely miss.
posted by jouke at 11:38 AM on April 29, 2008
posted by jouke at 11:38 AM on April 29, 2008
I've been using a Macbook for the past two years. Before that, I had a windows desktop that I purchased from a local computer store, then upgraded, put into a new case, etc. etc. By the end, I had essentially built it myself.
I had a horrible first 6 months experience with my macbook. I had a bad processor-- it would overheat and shut down. In addition to this, there was bad ram.
These things did not irk me outright. What really made me furious was the tech support I received from apple. Well within my warranty I called them, told them the problem, sent it away. After this first encounter, I got it back, and it shut down again within the first day. I sent it back, told them the problem. This time it was the ram-- but I was astonished that this wasn't discovered the first time.
When I got it back the second time, my computer was physically in shambles. The casing of the screen was half peeled off, there were pieces of plastic sticking out of the sides of the case where the keyboard cover meets the port sides, screws were half sticking out. I could literally see into my computer through a hole that should not have been there. On top of that, it would no longer boot-- I got the question mark.
After a lot of hassle, I finally got through to somebody at the top of the food chain for support. After first offering to help me re-install the os, I nearly broke a gasket and demanded a new computer, since mine was now air-cooled in ways it should never have been.
I realize that this happens occasionally. I only fault the apple licensed repair shop for what had happened to my computer-- it was very clear it was mistreated at the shop.
I bring this up not because I think this is specific to Apple-- the main thing is that, as a pc user for the past 6-8 years before this, I could troubleshoot my own pc. I know how it works, I know what things happen when something goes wrong. Whenever my laptop has problems, or one of my family member's desktop macs have problems, I'm in the dark. You are completely reliant on apple, and if you didn't spring for their ridiculous applecare, which should be free of charge, you're in the dark. It is expensive to replace a certain component part from apple, and any other place that isn't apple (which will void your warranty) is half as expensive, and I highly recommend it.
I certainly love the OS at times, but even softwareside, when something is awry, it is not nearly as easy to find out what it is. Sometimes I feel like I am riding in a very powerful car that somebody has installed child locks on.
Whenever something goes wrong, the invariable answer is to reset the pram, or upgrade your ram. After upgrading ram, which has a history in a previous askmefi I posed, I still found the same sort of problems. It feels like the machine just gunks up after a while of use--for no real reason, and gets slower. Occasionally it will beachball at startup-- I can find no reason this occurs. I have 2 gigs of ram in this macbook right now, but you wouldn't be able to tell sometimes.
If you play any sort of pc games, The macbook is not very capable, and DON'T let anything fool you. Its graphics card is not good enough for almost anything, even with bootcamp. I have windows installed on this machine (which never feels as good as real windows, because there are certain quirks with the trackpad, etc) and can play basic games that are older. Half life 1. Half life 2 will apparently run, but if you take a look at the videos and reports of people playing it, it requires a lot of tweaking, and another thing that is never mention is that the game has a flaw with the macbook hardware that causes it to quit whenever you save the game, or when it autosaves. Not a deal breaker, but obnoxious none the less.
As people have said before me, the Microsoft office can be wonky on an intel mac, but I think that's the older 2004 for macs. I just got the brand spanking new 2008 office for mac (which is actually supported for the intel chips) and I like it, but it feels like in having the ui so wonderfully shiny-- it is-- it is slightly molasses-y compared to the windows Office. (No big surprise). I have no photoshop experience I can relate. I used itunes on my pc, and on the mac it is almost identical, but still slower due to graphical processes-- I do love front row, which is the remote controlled extension of media player. The fact that most macs have built in cameras now is great, too. Ichat is a fantastic program, I think apple mail is superior to thunderbird, and I even use the new safari over firefox (gasp!) because I like the simplicity of it, and I don't use a lot of plug-ins when I do use firefox.
One thing I will say I love when it comes to my mac is the piece of mind it gives me when I use it. Whereas with my desktop PC I had to be wary of what I installed and what not, the 3rd party applications are so widely used and available that it is very rare you will find yourself downloading a questionable application. Even if you do, the chances of it actually borking your computer are just lower. While I never actually had a virus on my PC, it is nicer to know your machine is not as perceptible to them (I realize people will say that there are viruses for macs too, but lets be honest, they are rare).
All in all, as a college student who uses my computer for excessive internet, research, and paper writing, it has not concerned me deeply. When I think about my limited budget currently and in the future, I kind of wish I had bought a cheaper computer which I could upgrade, rather than just having to junk this one in a few years for an entirely new box.
I feel like there is a trade-off in Windows versus OSX machines, and a lot of bias gets thrown up because some people thing windows is the devil, some people think osx is the devil (or hippie version of the devil). I feel like the hardware for a PC is safer overall, in terms of customizability and speed, and doing everything, but the Software is of course, sometimes violently awful. I have had blue screens, etc, but never lost any really valuable data. I feel like the software of the mac is, as I said, childproofed a bit too much for me, but if you don't care about whether or not anything that can be changed you can change in your favor, then it is for you. Whether or not I regret is hard to say. I miss being able to reliably play video games, but that's the macbook's fault. I don't miss having Windows fuck up every once in awhile. Even if I could fix it, it still happened, and took time out of my life. Even if my mac is slow sometimes, it still works, and there are fantastic 3rd party clean-up apps that do work wonders.
It's hard not to recommend a mac, especially with bootcamp in full tow. But I feel so much importance is placed on the "switch" aspect, when it really is not as flawless as people make it out to be. I feel like the "switch" ads are based on a similar metaphor of swimming: certain people never really learned to (or wanted to) fully swim around to the deep end of the lake, which adds a self-sufficient air of capability. Apple designed a floatation device for people who don't like the bottoms of pools.
posted by stresstwig at 11:42 AM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
I had a horrible first 6 months experience with my macbook. I had a bad processor-- it would overheat and shut down. In addition to this, there was bad ram.
These things did not irk me outright. What really made me furious was the tech support I received from apple. Well within my warranty I called them, told them the problem, sent it away. After this first encounter, I got it back, and it shut down again within the first day. I sent it back, told them the problem. This time it was the ram-- but I was astonished that this wasn't discovered the first time.
When I got it back the second time, my computer was physically in shambles. The casing of the screen was half peeled off, there were pieces of plastic sticking out of the sides of the case where the keyboard cover meets the port sides, screws were half sticking out. I could literally see into my computer through a hole that should not have been there. On top of that, it would no longer boot-- I got the question mark.
After a lot of hassle, I finally got through to somebody at the top of the food chain for support. After first offering to help me re-install the os, I nearly broke a gasket and demanded a new computer, since mine was now air-cooled in ways it should never have been.
I realize that this happens occasionally. I only fault the apple licensed repair shop for what had happened to my computer-- it was very clear it was mistreated at the shop.
I bring this up not because I think this is specific to Apple-- the main thing is that, as a pc user for the past 6-8 years before this, I could troubleshoot my own pc. I know how it works, I know what things happen when something goes wrong. Whenever my laptop has problems, or one of my family member's desktop macs have problems, I'm in the dark. You are completely reliant on apple, and if you didn't spring for their ridiculous applecare, which should be free of charge, you're in the dark. It is expensive to replace a certain component part from apple, and any other place that isn't apple (which will void your warranty) is half as expensive, and I highly recommend it.
I certainly love the OS at times, but even softwareside, when something is awry, it is not nearly as easy to find out what it is. Sometimes I feel like I am riding in a very powerful car that somebody has installed child locks on.
Whenever something goes wrong, the invariable answer is to reset the pram, or upgrade your ram. After upgrading ram, which has a history in a previous askmefi I posed, I still found the same sort of problems. It feels like the machine just gunks up after a while of use--for no real reason, and gets slower. Occasionally it will beachball at startup-- I can find no reason this occurs. I have 2 gigs of ram in this macbook right now, but you wouldn't be able to tell sometimes.
If you play any sort of pc games, The macbook is not very capable, and DON'T let anything fool you. Its graphics card is not good enough for almost anything, even with bootcamp. I have windows installed on this machine (which never feels as good as real windows, because there are certain quirks with the trackpad, etc) and can play basic games that are older. Half life 1. Half life 2 will apparently run, but if you take a look at the videos and reports of people playing it, it requires a lot of tweaking, and another thing that is never mention is that the game has a flaw with the macbook hardware that causes it to quit whenever you save the game, or when it autosaves. Not a deal breaker, but obnoxious none the less.
As people have said before me, the Microsoft office can be wonky on an intel mac, but I think that's the older 2004 for macs. I just got the brand spanking new 2008 office for mac (which is actually supported for the intel chips) and I like it, but it feels like in having the ui so wonderfully shiny-- it is-- it is slightly molasses-y compared to the windows Office. (No big surprise). I have no photoshop experience I can relate. I used itunes on my pc, and on the mac it is almost identical, but still slower due to graphical processes-- I do love front row, which is the remote controlled extension of media player. The fact that most macs have built in cameras now is great, too. Ichat is a fantastic program, I think apple mail is superior to thunderbird, and I even use the new safari over firefox (gasp!) because I like the simplicity of it, and I don't use a lot of plug-ins when I do use firefox.
One thing I will say I love when it comes to my mac is the piece of mind it gives me when I use it. Whereas with my desktop PC I had to be wary of what I installed and what not, the 3rd party applications are so widely used and available that it is very rare you will find yourself downloading a questionable application. Even if you do, the chances of it actually borking your computer are just lower. While I never actually had a virus on my PC, it is nicer to know your machine is not as perceptible to them (I realize people will say that there are viruses for macs too, but lets be honest, they are rare).
All in all, as a college student who uses my computer for excessive internet, research, and paper writing, it has not concerned me deeply. When I think about my limited budget currently and in the future, I kind of wish I had bought a cheaper computer which I could upgrade, rather than just having to junk this one in a few years for an entirely new box.
I feel like there is a trade-off in Windows versus OSX machines, and a lot of bias gets thrown up because some people thing windows is the devil, some people think osx is the devil (or hippie version of the devil). I feel like the hardware for a PC is safer overall, in terms of customizability and speed, and doing everything, but the Software is of course, sometimes violently awful. I have had blue screens, etc, but never lost any really valuable data. I feel like the software of the mac is, as I said, childproofed a bit too much for me, but if you don't care about whether or not anything that can be changed you can change in your favor, then it is for you. Whether or not I regret is hard to say. I miss being able to reliably play video games, but that's the macbook's fault. I don't miss having Windows fuck up every once in awhile. Even if I could fix it, it still happened, and took time out of my life. Even if my mac is slow sometimes, it still works, and there are fantastic 3rd party clean-up apps that do work wonders.
It's hard not to recommend a mac, especially with bootcamp in full tow. But I feel so much importance is placed on the "switch" aspect, when it really is not as flawless as people make it out to be. I feel like the "switch" ads are based on a similar metaphor of swimming: certain people never really learned to (or wanted to) fully swim around to the deep end of the lake, which adds a self-sufficient air of capability. Apple designed a floatation device for people who don't like the bottoms of pools.
posted by stresstwig at 11:42 AM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
I bought a mac back in 2000 or so, and that experience has led me to generally dislike working on macs. damn dirty ape hits a lot of my complaints. I can add a few:
1. poor design for muscle memory: the way the dock is organized is anti-thetical to the way I've been using computers for the last 15 or so years. I had to install a dock replacement on my mac in order to feel comfortable using it. If you hate taskbar button grouping, you may hate macs. A lot.
2. retarded keyboard. i hate hate hate hate the mac laptop keyboard. everything is in the wrong place. No "Del" key -- just a backspace? No dedicated PgUP,PgDWN, End, Home keys? No thanks. Additionally -- not sure about the newer macs -- but the old TiBook I have sends the same keycode for the left/right rugbeater keys so you can't even 'fix' things by using a custom keymap.
3. Firefox sucks on macs (not really Apple's fault, true).
4. I've seen no end of trouble and weirdness with boot camp and parallels at my office (crashes, and in extreme cases, lost data). Therefore, I do not consider this a valid fallback option. Your mileage may vary. You're still stuck with the crappy keyboard, even if you are using bootcamp.
5. I dislike some of the mac GUI interface decisions -- "drag this to your HD to install", "panels" vs. "windows" for things like Illustrator/Photoshop. "Close Document" via "Exit Program". Immediate application rather than an "Apply" button or dialog. This is really a personal preference.
If you're a power user, you may feel as though someone has tied an arm behind your back. If you're a casual user, you really have nothing to lose by trying it -- Macs hold their value pretty well, so you can probably resell it without too great of a loss.
posted by fishfucker at 11:55 AM on April 29, 2008
1. poor design for muscle memory: the way the dock is organized is anti-thetical to the way I've been using computers for the last 15 or so years. I had to install a dock replacement on my mac in order to feel comfortable using it. If you hate taskbar button grouping, you may hate macs. A lot.
2. retarded keyboard. i hate hate hate hate the mac laptop keyboard. everything is in the wrong place. No "Del" key -- just a backspace? No dedicated PgUP,PgDWN, End, Home keys? No thanks. Additionally -- not sure about the newer macs -- but the old TiBook I have sends the same keycode for the left/right rugbeater keys so you can't even 'fix' things by using a custom keymap.
3. Firefox sucks on macs (not really Apple's fault, true).
4. I've seen no end of trouble and weirdness with boot camp and parallels at my office (crashes, and in extreme cases, lost data). Therefore, I do not consider this a valid fallback option. Your mileage may vary. You're still stuck with the crappy keyboard, even if you are using bootcamp.
5. I dislike some of the mac GUI interface decisions -- "drag this to your HD to install", "panels" vs. "windows" for things like Illustrator/Photoshop. "Close Document" via "Exit Program". Immediate application rather than an "Apply" button or dialog. This is really a personal preference.
If you're a power user, you may feel as though someone has tied an arm behind your back. If you're a casual user, you really have nothing to lose by trying it -- Macs hold their value pretty well, so you can probably resell it without too great of a loss.
posted by fishfucker at 11:55 AM on April 29, 2008
Why on earth would you pay a ridiculous premium for Apple hardware if you're not going to use OSX? This is bad advice.
Priced an 8-core Xeon tower from Dell lately? :-)
posted by kindall at 12:03 PM on April 29, 2008
Priced an 8-core Xeon tower from Dell lately? :-)
posted by kindall at 12:03 PM on April 29, 2008
Ah another dislike: if you install an application that uses an installer, not the drag&drop way of installing, there's no way to remove the thing. The OS does not provide features for that. Can you believe it?
You can inspect the original installer using some obscure shell commands and search out the individual files and remove them.
posted by jouke at 12:03 PM on April 29, 2008
You can inspect the original installer using some obscure shell commands and search out the individual files and remove them.
posted by jouke at 12:03 PM on April 29, 2008
Why on earth would you pay a ridiculous premium for Apple hardware if you're not going to use OSX? This is bad advice.
In the case of my Mac Mini it was smaller, quieter, and a lot more reliable than the Shuttle PC SFF that it replaced and was not significantly more expensive.
posted by Challahtronix at 12:24 PM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
In the case of my Mac Mini it was smaller, quieter, and a lot more reliable than the Shuttle PC SFF that it replaced and was not significantly more expensive.
posted by Challahtronix at 12:24 PM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
I love my Mac, but I have never been able to find a decent fundraising database, compatible with with the PC users who pollute the rest of my pod, affordable and functional for my needs. So just a tiny twinge of regret.
posted by nax at 12:31 PM on April 29, 2008
posted by nax at 12:31 PM on April 29, 2008
I'm an avowed Mac fanboi but I'm also the family computer tech so I've seen each side of the issue. There are a few* recurring themes that come up with dissatisfied switchers:
1) The interface can frustrate the casual user and those used to doing things a certain way. You will have to re-learn keyboard shortcuts and other common actions.
2) There will be at least one program you rely on that has no counterpart on a Mac, or if there is one it won't run very well. My dad is a happy switcher for the most part but has a hobby that would be made easier with the use of a goofy little freeware app made for Windows '98 and this irks him to no end.
3) Most of the world still uses Windows. This is a fact. Apple includes some effective productivity software but you'll likely find that you won't be able to swap files with Windows users without jumping through hoops, and even then there's often no guarantee that the files will translate 100% correctly. This isn't so much a problem with standard files (mp3s and the like) or files from the major software vendors, but if you try to open a Word document in one of the Apple-bundled applications you're likely to be disappointed.
*by no means all-inclusive and not meant to disparage any of the other posters; these are merely my observations of the experiences of friends and family.
posted by lekvar at 12:32 PM on April 29, 2008
1) The interface can frustrate the casual user and those used to doing things a certain way. You will have to re-learn keyboard shortcuts and other common actions.
2) There will be at least one program you rely on that has no counterpart on a Mac, or if there is one it won't run very well. My dad is a happy switcher for the most part but has a hobby that would be made easier with the use of a goofy little freeware app made for Windows '98 and this irks him to no end.
3) Most of the world still uses Windows. This is a fact. Apple includes some effective productivity software but you'll likely find that you won't be able to swap files with Windows users without jumping through hoops, and even then there's often no guarantee that the files will translate 100% correctly. This isn't so much a problem with standard files (mp3s and the like) or files from the major software vendors, but if you try to open a Word document in one of the Apple-bundled applications you're likely to be disappointed.
*by no means all-inclusive and not meant to disparage any of the other posters; these are merely my observations of the experiences of friends and family.
posted by lekvar at 12:32 PM on April 29, 2008
Best answer: I think the range of answers here indicates that this is a personal experience and the only way to find out the real answer is to explore this yourself.
My suggestion is this:
Schedule some time with a trainer at one of the Apple stores. Go in there with a list of things that you typically do and let her show you the Macintosh Way to do it. YOU put your hand on the mouse and try out the same tasks.
This is not a perfect answer either as getting used to something new takes time, but you really need to experience it somehow before dropping $2k.
m
posted by tcv at 12:45 PM on April 29, 2008
My suggestion is this:
Schedule some time with a trainer at one of the Apple stores. Go in there with a list of things that you typically do and let her show you the Macintosh Way to do it. YOU put your hand on the mouse and try out the same tasks.
This is not a perfect answer either as getting used to something new takes time, but you really need to experience it somehow before dropping $2k.
m
posted by tcv at 12:45 PM on April 29, 2008
Buy a 5 button mouse, and plug it into your Mac. It will work immediately without any additional software. If you want, you can open your Control Panel and configure each button and scroll wheel separately.
I'm not a Mac zealot, but I find people who use this as a plus for PCs to be completely ignorant.
Also, Word for Mac is perfectly fine. I use it all the time. I'm sure there might be some small differences or problems, but for an average user, it's fine.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 1:09 PM on April 29, 2008
I'm not a Mac zealot, but I find people who use this as a plus for PCs to be completely ignorant.
Also, Word for Mac is perfectly fine. I use it all the time. I'm sure there might be some small differences or problems, but for an average user, it's fine.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 1:09 PM on April 29, 2008
I do not regret switching at all, the only thing I do miss in the windowing system itself. When dealing with a large project, it can be a huge task accessing everything I need. For instance, when working on a coding project in Matlab I will often have the assignment and research articles open in Preview, Matlab and multiple coding windows open inside that, Firefox running for research/syntax lookup, another text editor running for writing my responses, IM client for conferring with my peers, etc, etc. Not being able to maximize windows and stack for easy access means I have so many overlapping windows and what I need is frequently buried 4 levels down. I realize this could probably be solved more elegantly with Spaces and Expose, but I guess I am just not comfortable enough with the hotkeys and using them for maximum effect. However, doing the same project on my XP desktop has never seemed troublesome.
All that being said, I would never go back to XP for a laptop OS. For a desktop, I prefer XP or Linux by a longshot.
posted by sophist at 1:09 PM on April 29, 2008
All that being said, I would never go back to XP for a laptop OS. For a desktop, I prefer XP or Linux by a longshot.
posted by sophist at 1:09 PM on April 29, 2008
I'm not a Mac zealot, but I find people who use this as a plus for PCs to be completely ignorant.
I am a Mac zealot, and find people who say this to be PC-ignorant. The right button isn't just about the hardware, it's about contextual menu support.
The Mac is OK-to-good at this, in many applications, but it's by no means perfect. I personally think they're not a great UI feature, as discoverability is poor, but if you like them the Windows implementation kicks the Mac's hide.
Also, Word for Mac is perfectly fine. I use it all the time. I'm sure there might be some small differences or problems, but for an average user, it's fine.
Where presumably "the average user" = jeff-o-matic? It's not perfectly fine, it's a hunk of junk by many observable metrics, including one that's fairly fundamental while Word format is the dominant one: cross-platform compatibility.
You can open a PC Word file on Mac Word, edit it, and send it back to the PC and it will be different in a number of ways than if it had been edited on a PC. That's not "fine", that's "fucked".
posted by bonaldi at 1:35 PM on April 29, 2008
I am a Mac zealot, and find people who say this to be PC-ignorant. The right button isn't just about the hardware, it's about contextual menu support.
The Mac is OK-to-good at this, in many applications, but it's by no means perfect. I personally think they're not a great UI feature, as discoverability is poor, but if you like them the Windows implementation kicks the Mac's hide.
Also, Word for Mac is perfectly fine. I use it all the time. I'm sure there might be some small differences or problems, but for an average user, it's fine.
Where presumably "the average user" = jeff-o-matic? It's not perfectly fine, it's a hunk of junk by many observable metrics, including one that's fairly fundamental while Word format is the dominant one: cross-platform compatibility.
You can open a PC Word file on Mac Word, edit it, and send it back to the PC and it will be different in a number of ways than if it had been edited on a PC. That's not "fine", that's "fucked".
posted by bonaldi at 1:35 PM on April 29, 2008
Sophist, F9 and F10 are going to make your life SO much easier.
posted by Magnakai at 1:55 PM on April 29, 2008
posted by Magnakai at 1:55 PM on April 29, 2008
bonaldi: I was referring to the fact that many folks simply say "I can't stand the single button mouse" when referring to Macs. Sheesh.
Also, not everyone is sending Word docs to other users who then alter them and return them.
Calm down, maybe lay off the coffee.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 2:13 PM on April 29, 2008
Also, not everyone is sending Word docs to other users who then alter them and return them.
Calm down, maybe lay off the coffee.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 2:13 PM on April 29, 2008
thomas144 wrote "One of the things I like about the Macbook is that it doesn't come pre-installed with all kinds of free trial programs"
...except Office, Aperture, the iWork suite, and several others. It's there, it just isn't as much and isn't as obvious.
Personally, I use a MacBook Pro at work and XP on a 5-year old homebrew system at home. I'm kind of torn. I like them both for different reasons. As for switching, my issues:
-Price (hardware AND software). Having very little cash for a new system, let alone new software, makes it very tough to go with a Mac if you already have lots of software for Windows. I lucked out, picked up the Mac last summer through program funding - as it wasn't my money, I didn't mind the premium - and also had enough left over to get the necessary software (Adobe CS + Parallels) to allow me to comfortably work on the Mac. If you have any "can't live without it" Windows software, Parallels + Boot Camp is a good investment (or VMWare, if you prefer; personally I think their implementation of the Start menu is crap; VirtualBox is another option, currently in beta but it is free software). Others above are correct in noting that many of the utilities you are used to as freebies in Windows will cost you on a Mac. For some reason - whether it's the sheer numbers or the "us against Bill Gates" mentality of Windows users - there's a lot more good stuff for free on that platform.
-Web browsing. Firefox 2 is kind of slow on OS X, luckily Beta 5 resolves that. Safari... meh. It's OK but lacks some UI features I am used to in Firefox - hate the Safari Bookmarks implementation, for one, and really miss the Firefox add-ons. Sure, Safari has some, but precious few of them are free. Also, no matter what browser you use, expect problems from some websites. Doesn't happen as often as it used to, but I still get locked out here and there.
-Office. The iWork suite is not bad, but if you're an Office power user you're going to feel crippled. Office 2004 runs like crap on Intel machines. Office 2008 is simply speaking a major disappointment. Buggy, bloated, awful UI, and neutered by the removal of VBA scripting. If you reply on add-ins like EndNote, you're in trouble until workarounds are developed. Somehow PowerPoint 08 is a step forward (roughly equivalent with PP 03 for Windows) but Excel and Word regularly annoy the hell out of me. I have 07 installed on my BootCamp partition and NeoOffice on my Mac partition to help me avoid the worst of it. This remains my single biggest gripe about the Mac.
-Mail. Apple mail works well with everything else on the Mac. That's great if you like Mail. I prefer Thunderbird. The simplified Mail interface stops me from being able to tell Mail that my IMAP server doesn't support subfolders in folders containing messages, for example, or to use TLS instead of SSL, and several other options necessary to access my mail properly. I also strongly prefer the Thunderbird approach to multiple account support over Mail's method of using a single global inbox. (As with FF, using something newer than version 2 speeds up Thunderbird; I'm running nightly builds, they're great but I also have the fun of using pre-alpha software. Even so, surprisingly stable.) At any rate, either is leaps and bounds better than Outlook (Entourage 08 is supposed to be more Outlook-like, but that isn't a good thing in my book - can't say, I didn't install it).
-Music/Video. iTunes on Mac and iTunes on Windows are the same beast. I even sync my iTunes library between computers. Same XML file, no issues. Plugging my iPod into either Mac or PC syncs as if it had never been plugged in to any other system. That said, I use VLC for local playback (same reason I use Winamp at home - prefer using a smaller program over the memory hog that is iTunes). Quicktime takes over just about everything audio or video. That + VLC and you're good. Except Flip4Mac for WMV. So far I've had a fairly hard time finding anything that won't play, between the three of them. Quicktime is actually less invasive on a Mac (even though it still tries to be the default viewer for PNG files in web browsers - what the hell? Why is that still enabled by default?)
-Images. iPhoto is great if you never use anything besides iPhoto. I miss Picasa enough that I run it in Wine, even though it's buggy and crashes if I try to do a slideshow. Supposedly Picasa for Mac is coming, and I can't wait. iPhoto moves all images into one monolithic file - making copies in the process - so your 100 mb image library becomes 200 mb instantly, not counting the thumbnails and the saved copies of different versions, etc. Newer iPhoto seems to be smarter than the first one I used, but still can't understand that folder structure means something to me, and still has zero ability to monitor folders for additions/deletions. Not very damn useful if you sync photos between systems as I do.
-Hardware. Hate that the screen won't open past about a 100 degree angle. I'm tall. I have to crouch at my desk to see the screen comfortably. That sucks. The keyboard is also a bit annoying. I miss dedicated Home, Page Up/Down and End keys. Apple also refuses to use full keyboards where they ought to - the 17" MacBook Pro has plenty of room for a full keyboard, but instead it has lots of empty wasted space. The new Bluetooth keyboard - great, a $100 laptop keyboard. How is that better than the laptop keyboard I already have? If they made a Bluetooth keyboard with a number pad, they'd have me interested. Otherwise it's really a dumb decision. While I like the multitouch trackpad I still hate Apple mice and use a Microsoft 5-button. Also damn annoyed that Apple can't enable tap-to-click in BootCamp, which really really ticks me off. All that aside, it's a very solid machine, and I'd be pretty happy if I didn't know for example that anything as simple as replacing the hard drive would take 6 hours, a PhD in engineering, and the removal of several thousand microscopic screws.
-Miscellaneous. Love having the Terminal right there. If you do any UNIX/Linux stuff, it's really nice not to have to install PuTTY or Cygwin or Xming just to do it. Near-native X11 implementation is nice (Apple's X11 is missing a few things still, and still lacks proper OpenGL support). The QuickView thingy - spacebar to pop up a preview of nearly any file - is really cool, and I use it more often than I ever thought I would. Expose is quite clever, especially when set to use hotcorners. Keep trying to use it at home on Windows and have to stop and remember that it doesn't do that on XP. Spaces I like. A couple of free programs - Quicksilver, Witch, and Growl for starters - have made my life much easier, either adding back in Windows-like functions I missed (Witch) or new things that I really miss when I'm on Windows (QS and Growl). I do find that I miss the little "pop" noise made by Windows when you plug in hardware. I'd like some notification when something isn't recognized, at least. Printing can be a bit buggy at times; some printers in our lab work perfectly with Windows but give our lab Mac Mini fits. (You'd think if it was an HP it would work, right?) Last, I'm annoyed that Apple still doesn't support read-write for NTFS formatted drives. NTFS-3G has been stable long enough that this should just work by now.
There are several good websites listing open-source Mac programs that are pretty good replacements for a lot of what I use on Windows. Some (Firefox, Thunderbird, Filezilla) were cross-platform to begin with, and I use them because I am familiar with the interfaces. Others I've come to like or resigned myself to use.
sophist wrote "All that being said, I would never go back to XP for a laptop OS."
I'm with you there. When you buy a laptop, you're already paying a premium. Apple does hardware pretty damn well. Pretty sure that my next laptop will also be a Mac. As for a desktop, we'll see. I have enough invested in XP that I'm not quite ready to dump it, but not enough cash to buy an Apple desktop that would run Windows as fast and cheap as a homebuilt system would.
posted by caution live frogs at 2:23 PM on April 29, 2008
...except Office, Aperture, the iWork suite, and several others. It's there, it just isn't as much and isn't as obvious.
Personally, I use a MacBook Pro at work and XP on a 5-year old homebrew system at home. I'm kind of torn. I like them both for different reasons. As for switching, my issues:
-Price (hardware AND software). Having very little cash for a new system, let alone new software, makes it very tough to go with a Mac if you already have lots of software for Windows. I lucked out, picked up the Mac last summer through program funding - as it wasn't my money, I didn't mind the premium - and also had enough left over to get the necessary software (Adobe CS + Parallels) to allow me to comfortably work on the Mac. If you have any "can't live without it" Windows software, Parallels + Boot Camp is a good investment (or VMWare, if you prefer; personally I think their implementation of the Start menu is crap; VirtualBox is another option, currently in beta but it is free software). Others above are correct in noting that many of the utilities you are used to as freebies in Windows will cost you on a Mac. For some reason - whether it's the sheer numbers or the "us against Bill Gates" mentality of Windows users - there's a lot more good stuff for free on that platform.
-Web browsing. Firefox 2 is kind of slow on OS X, luckily Beta 5 resolves that. Safari... meh. It's OK but lacks some UI features I am used to in Firefox - hate the Safari Bookmarks implementation, for one, and really miss the Firefox add-ons. Sure, Safari has some, but precious few of them are free. Also, no matter what browser you use, expect problems from some websites. Doesn't happen as often as it used to, but I still get locked out here and there.
-Office. The iWork suite is not bad, but if you're an Office power user you're going to feel crippled. Office 2004 runs like crap on Intel machines. Office 2008 is simply speaking a major disappointment. Buggy, bloated, awful UI, and neutered by the removal of VBA scripting. If you reply on add-ins like EndNote, you're in trouble until workarounds are developed. Somehow PowerPoint 08 is a step forward (roughly equivalent with PP 03 for Windows) but Excel and Word regularly annoy the hell out of me. I have 07 installed on my BootCamp partition and NeoOffice on my Mac partition to help me avoid the worst of it. This remains my single biggest gripe about the Mac.
-Mail. Apple mail works well with everything else on the Mac. That's great if you like Mail. I prefer Thunderbird. The simplified Mail interface stops me from being able to tell Mail that my IMAP server doesn't support subfolders in folders containing messages, for example, or to use TLS instead of SSL, and several other options necessary to access my mail properly. I also strongly prefer the Thunderbird approach to multiple account support over Mail's method of using a single global inbox. (As with FF, using something newer than version 2 speeds up Thunderbird; I'm running nightly builds, they're great but I also have the fun of using pre-alpha software. Even so, surprisingly stable.) At any rate, either is leaps and bounds better than Outlook (Entourage 08 is supposed to be more Outlook-like, but that isn't a good thing in my book - can't say, I didn't install it).
-Music/Video. iTunes on Mac and iTunes on Windows are the same beast. I even sync my iTunes library between computers. Same XML file, no issues. Plugging my iPod into either Mac or PC syncs as if it had never been plugged in to any other system. That said, I use VLC for local playback (same reason I use Winamp at home - prefer using a smaller program over the memory hog that is iTunes). Quicktime takes over just about everything audio or video. That + VLC and you're good. Except Flip4Mac for WMV. So far I've had a fairly hard time finding anything that won't play, between the three of them. Quicktime is actually less invasive on a Mac (even though it still tries to be the default viewer for PNG files in web browsers - what the hell? Why is that still enabled by default?)
-Images. iPhoto is great if you never use anything besides iPhoto. I miss Picasa enough that I run it in Wine, even though it's buggy and crashes if I try to do a slideshow. Supposedly Picasa for Mac is coming, and I can't wait. iPhoto moves all images into one monolithic file - making copies in the process - so your 100 mb image library becomes 200 mb instantly, not counting the thumbnails and the saved copies of different versions, etc. Newer iPhoto seems to be smarter than the first one I used, but still can't understand that folder structure means something to me, and still has zero ability to monitor folders for additions/deletions. Not very damn useful if you sync photos between systems as I do.
-Hardware. Hate that the screen won't open past about a 100 degree angle. I'm tall. I have to crouch at my desk to see the screen comfortably. That sucks. The keyboard is also a bit annoying. I miss dedicated Home, Page Up/Down and End keys. Apple also refuses to use full keyboards where they ought to - the 17" MacBook Pro has plenty of room for a full keyboard, but instead it has lots of empty wasted space. The new Bluetooth keyboard - great, a $100 laptop keyboard. How is that better than the laptop keyboard I already have? If they made a Bluetooth keyboard with a number pad, they'd have me interested. Otherwise it's really a dumb decision. While I like the multitouch trackpad I still hate Apple mice and use a Microsoft 5-button. Also damn annoyed that Apple can't enable tap-to-click in BootCamp, which really really ticks me off. All that aside, it's a very solid machine, and I'd be pretty happy if I didn't know for example that anything as simple as replacing the hard drive would take 6 hours, a PhD in engineering, and the removal of several thousand microscopic screws.
-Miscellaneous. Love having the Terminal right there. If you do any UNIX/Linux stuff, it's really nice not to have to install PuTTY or Cygwin or Xming just to do it. Near-native X11 implementation is nice (Apple's X11 is missing a few things still, and still lacks proper OpenGL support). The QuickView thingy - spacebar to pop up a preview of nearly any file - is really cool, and I use it more often than I ever thought I would. Expose is quite clever, especially when set to use hotcorners. Keep trying to use it at home on Windows and have to stop and remember that it doesn't do that on XP. Spaces I like. A couple of free programs - Quicksilver, Witch, and Growl for starters - have made my life much easier, either adding back in Windows-like functions I missed (Witch) or new things that I really miss when I'm on Windows (QS and Growl). I do find that I miss the little "pop" noise made by Windows when you plug in hardware. I'd like some notification when something isn't recognized, at least. Printing can be a bit buggy at times; some printers in our lab work perfectly with Windows but give our lab Mac Mini fits. (You'd think if it was an HP it would work, right?) Last, I'm annoyed that Apple still doesn't support read-write for NTFS formatted drives. NTFS-3G has been stable long enough that this should just work by now.
There are several good websites listing open-source Mac programs that are pretty good replacements for a lot of what I use on Windows. Some (Firefox, Thunderbird, Filezilla) were cross-platform to begin with, and I use them because I am familiar with the interfaces. Others I've come to like or resigned myself to use.
sophist wrote "All that being said, I would never go back to XP for a laptop OS."
I'm with you there. When you buy a laptop, you're already paying a premium. Apple does hardware pretty damn well. Pretty sure that my next laptop will also be a Mac. As for a desktop, we'll see. I have enough invested in XP that I'm not quite ready to dump it, but not enough cash to buy an Apple desktop that would run Windows as fast and cheap as a homebuilt system would.
posted by caution live frogs at 2:23 PM on April 29, 2008
music (using iTunes, kinda non-negotiable), photos (Photoshop but I'm open to alternatives there), word processing, some streaming video
OSX has all your bases covered. For word processing, as long as you don't write macros or do extensive page layout work on it, Mac Office is fine. The panels interface may take a bit of getting used to if you're accustomed to clicking on the toolbar buttons in Word but most people adapt fairly quickly.
dual user accounts
OSX has this and it's implemented much better than on Windows. Just like in Windows XP, you create extra accounts and then pick the one to use at the login screen.
posted by junesix at 2:24 PM on April 29, 2008
OSX has all your bases covered. For word processing, as long as you don't write macros or do extensive page layout work on it, Mac Office is fine. The panels interface may take a bit of getting used to if you're accustomed to clicking on the toolbar buttons in Word but most people adapt fairly quickly.
dual user accounts
OSX has this and it's implemented much better than on Windows. Just like in Windows XP, you create extra accounts and then pick the one to use at the login screen.
posted by junesix at 2:24 PM on April 29, 2008
I regretted (being forced to) using a PC. The instant (and I mean the instant) that job ended, I was back with my beloved Macintosh. Any time I am forced to use a PC again I growl and swear and am generally unpleasant.
Sophist: you can switch between applications using Command+tab, and between windows within an application using command+~ and between tabs in Safari using Command+[ or ] (which requires using the shift key). Super fast!
posted by Capri at 2:37 PM on April 29, 2008
Sophist: you can switch between applications using Command+tab, and between windows within an application using command+~ and between tabs in Safari using Command+[ or ] (which requires using the shift key). Super fast!
posted by Capri at 2:37 PM on April 29, 2008
You can open a PC Word file on Mac Word, edit it, and send it back to the PC and it will be different in a number of ways than if it had been edited on a PC. That's not "fine", that's "fucked".
Can you elaborate on this? I haven't had a problem with sharing .doc files with Windows PCs since before OS X so part of me thinks this is unnecessary fear-mongering, but if I'm wrong (very possible) I want to know. Word 2008 for Mac has the option of saving documents as .PDF, .doc, .docx, .txt, .rtf, etc. and also has a "compatibility check" when you save a file (presumably to check for these kind of cross-platform inconsistencies).
To the OP: the worst part about switching to Mac from a PC (not that I've ever done it myself, I've been on Macs since System 7) is the idiot Mac zealots you'll have to put up with--people who, because they can't acknowledge that all OSes have their problems, poison other people to the idea that Macs don't have any problems whatsoever, setting them up for unreasonable expectations regarding Macs or OS X (Apple's smear campaign against Windows and their insistence that "Everything just works on the Mac! All the time, every time!" probably isn't helping). There are lemon computers coming from any manufacturer, hardware fails, third party software gunks up preferences, whatever.
Some of the problems people have after switching to the Mac comes from these kind of unreasonable expectations. Some of it comes from expecting Mac to behave more like Windows. I've gone through probably more than 20 computers in my life; only one of those was a Windows PC (required to be, otherwise it would have been another Mac). I hated XP--not only because of the spyware and virii and BSOD problems I had, but mostly because I had no idea what I was doing and that was frustrating. Is that the OS's fault? Or was it my fault for not putting in more effort into learning how to actually use the computer?
Of course I'm going to say that you should switch to a Mac--hell, they're even "cool" now and not just for idiots. The iMac is a gorgeous machine, and they were just updated yesterday. If, after you really give OS X a fair shake and decide it's not for you, you can still run Windows on the machine or you can sell it (Macs retain their value better than most other PCs, which is nice). But do yourself a favor and actually try and learn how to use the OS--and I don't mean wading through the bullshit of Mac web forums, I mean reading the Leopard Missing Manual by David Pogue or a similar kind of book. I suspect that if you understand how to use OS X, you won't regret switching at all.
(Another small tip: AppZapper. The line about dragging and dropping to the trash to uninstall? Not entirely true in some cases, especially if you're having problems and want to cleanly reinstall something after trashing it.)
posted by cosmic osmo at 2:41 PM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
Can you elaborate on this? I haven't had a problem with sharing .doc files with Windows PCs since before OS X so part of me thinks this is unnecessary fear-mongering, but if I'm wrong (very possible) I want to know. Word 2008 for Mac has the option of saving documents as .PDF, .doc, .docx, .txt, .rtf, etc. and also has a "compatibility check" when you save a file (presumably to check for these kind of cross-platform inconsistencies).
To the OP: the worst part about switching to Mac from a PC (not that I've ever done it myself, I've been on Macs since System 7) is the idiot Mac zealots you'll have to put up with--people who, because they can't acknowledge that all OSes have their problems, poison other people to the idea that Macs don't have any problems whatsoever, setting them up for unreasonable expectations regarding Macs or OS X (Apple's smear campaign against Windows and their insistence that "Everything just works on the Mac! All the time, every time!" probably isn't helping). There are lemon computers coming from any manufacturer, hardware fails, third party software gunks up preferences, whatever.
Some of the problems people have after switching to the Mac comes from these kind of unreasonable expectations. Some of it comes from expecting Mac to behave more like Windows. I've gone through probably more than 20 computers in my life; only one of those was a Windows PC (required to be, otherwise it would have been another Mac). I hated XP--not only because of the spyware and virii and BSOD problems I had, but mostly because I had no idea what I was doing and that was frustrating. Is that the OS's fault? Or was it my fault for not putting in more effort into learning how to actually use the computer?
Of course I'm going to say that you should switch to a Mac--hell, they're even "cool" now and not just for idiots. The iMac is a gorgeous machine, and they were just updated yesterday. If, after you really give OS X a fair shake and decide it's not for you, you can still run Windows on the machine or you can sell it (Macs retain their value better than most other PCs, which is nice). But do yourself a favor and actually try and learn how to use the OS--and I don't mean wading through the bullshit of Mac web forums, I mean reading the Leopard Missing Manual by David Pogue or a similar kind of book. I suspect that if you understand how to use OS X, you won't regret switching at all.
(Another small tip: AppZapper. The line about dragging and dropping to the trash to uninstall? Not entirely true in some cases, especially if you're having problems and want to cleanly reinstall something after trashing it.)
posted by cosmic osmo at 2:41 PM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
An alternative to AppZapper is Hazel, which pops up an alert whenever you drag an app to the Trash listing other files you might want to delete. It has many other features, too -- the uninstallation helper is just there because it was easy to add give the utility's feature set.
But really, there's little reason to uninstall anything these days.
posted by kindall at 2:57 PM on April 29, 2008
But really, there's little reason to uninstall anything these days.
posted by kindall at 2:57 PM on April 29, 2008
bonaldi: I was referring to the fact that many folks simply say "I can't stand the single button mouse" when referring to Macs. Sheesh.
Yes, and I'm referring to your confusion that they solely mean hardware.
Also, not everyone is sending Word docs to other users who then alter them and return them.
And neither are they the only problems with Word 2008...
Can you elaborate on this? I haven't had a problem with sharing .doc files with Windows PCs since before OS X so part of me thinks this is unnecessary fear-mongering, but if I'm wrong (very possible) I want to know. Word 2008 for Mac has the option of saving documents as .PDF, .doc, .docx, .txt, .rtf, etc. and also has a "compatibility check" when you save a file (presumably to check for these kind of cross-platform inconsistencies).
Yes. The basic problem is that since Ye Big Rewrite they're now essentially two separate apps that share a file format. Which means that when features are implemented differently, as they undoubtedly will be, incompatibilities arise. There are plenty of ways to see this effect, but most are somewhat tedious. The easiest way I can think of immediately is the new reference manager.
If you put a reference into a footnote in PC Word, it'll appear in abbreviated style. Do the same on the Mac, and it'll appear in full-out style. That's bad, but what's worse is that if you open a PC document on the Mac, and it recalculates the references, it'll send all the previously formatted ones to hell, and there's no way to repair them on the PC later. Expand this across the entire feature set and pretty soon you're not trusting anything anymore, and we're back in the dark ages.
Like I said, though, these aren't the only problems with Mac Word nowadays. Aside from subjective things like the hideous interface and cargo-cult ribbon copy, it's slower at lots of tasks and still can't do WYSIWYG correctly, adding extraneous space between words even when text is ragged-right. Ugh, ugh, ugh. If you write one letter a year or maybe a high school report, it's "fine". Otherwise, no.
posted by bonaldi at 2:59 PM on April 29, 2008
Yes, and I'm referring to your confusion that they solely mean hardware.
Also, not everyone is sending Word docs to other users who then alter them and return them.
And neither are they the only problems with Word 2008...
Can you elaborate on this? I haven't had a problem with sharing .doc files with Windows PCs since before OS X so part of me thinks this is unnecessary fear-mongering, but if I'm wrong (very possible) I want to know. Word 2008 for Mac has the option of saving documents as .PDF, .doc, .docx, .txt, .rtf, etc. and also has a "compatibility check" when you save a file (presumably to check for these kind of cross-platform inconsistencies).
Yes. The basic problem is that since Ye Big Rewrite they're now essentially two separate apps that share a file format. Which means that when features are implemented differently, as they undoubtedly will be, incompatibilities arise. There are plenty of ways to see this effect, but most are somewhat tedious. The easiest way I can think of immediately is the new reference manager.
If you put a reference into a footnote in PC Word, it'll appear in abbreviated style. Do the same on the Mac, and it'll appear in full-out style. That's bad, but what's worse is that if you open a PC document on the Mac, and it recalculates the references, it'll send all the previously formatted ones to hell, and there's no way to repair them on the PC later. Expand this across the entire feature set and pretty soon you're not trusting anything anymore, and we're back in the dark ages.
Like I said, though, these aren't the only problems with Mac Word nowadays. Aside from subjective things like the hideous interface and cargo-cult ribbon copy, it's slower at lots of tasks and still can't do WYSIWYG correctly, adding extraneous space between words even when text is ragged-right. Ugh, ugh, ugh. If you write one letter a year or maybe a high school report, it's "fine". Otherwise, no.
posted by bonaldi at 2:59 PM on April 29, 2008
I can't believe no one has clarified that all Macs have come with multi-button mice for years. The extra functions aren't turned on by default, but they're there.
posted by designbot at 3:34 PM on April 29, 2008
posted by designbot at 3:34 PM on April 29, 2008
Counterpoint to the folks saying "I am a power user, so if you are not as powerful at using as i am, use a mac". I am an unstoppable juggernaut of a power user and I really think OS X is great, full-featured, power-user friendly. Remember, intuitive just means familiar - if you are really into OS X, Windows feels backwards and wrong too. The only time I regret having a mac as my main machine is when I do a bunch of development on my Linux machine at home and don't have focus-follows-mouse etc. when I come back to my MBP.
This comes with a caveat though - even though I work very effectively with OS X apps in a keyboard-driven way, it is possible that WinXP is slightly better for GUI power users, but without the Unix CLI WinXP loses the battle for my heart and mind every time.
To actually answer the question, I only regret it sporadically. As a coworker of mine says: 'with linux, everything from a certain level on down works always, and with os x, everything from a certain level on up works always' - it just depends which half i'm dealing with at any given moment.
posted by thedaniel at 3:58 PM on April 29, 2008
This comes with a caveat though - even though I work very effectively with OS X apps in a keyboard-driven way, it is possible that WinXP is slightly better for GUI power users, but without the Unix CLI WinXP loses the battle for my heart and mind every time.
To actually answer the question, I only regret it sporadically. As a coworker of mine says: 'with linux, everything from a certain level on down works always, and with os x, everything from a certain level on up works always' - it just depends which half i'm dealing with at any given moment.
posted by thedaniel at 3:58 PM on April 29, 2008
that's a fair point. you could argue that the bulk of people switching to macs these days ARE power users and I wouldn't disagree -- if you jump into any arbitrary group of web developers, you're going to see a lot of apple hardware, even though some of them might not be running OSX. You get a decent CLI (although i'm not a huge fan of the darwin structure, and it would be nice to have more packages available and a better package manager), the ability to run many apps that aren't going to be available on the linux platform (namely, adobe apps), AND the ability to run cross-browser tests on the mac (with linux/windows tests being available through virtualization). for many people (and textmate fans) this is a no-brainer. I still can't get past that keyboard and dock though.
i guess it is more fair to say "if you are used to a windows/gnome/kde GUI, the mac GUI may be very frustrating". regardless, i stand by my criticism.
it's really just that dock that bugs me.
i hate that damned dock
posted by fishfucker at 5:17 PM on April 29, 2008
i guess it is more fair to say "if you are used to a windows/gnome/kde GUI, the mac GUI may be very frustrating". regardless, i stand by my criticism.
it's really just that dock that bugs me.
i hate that damned dock
posted by fishfucker at 5:17 PM on April 29, 2008
I switched, and don't regret it, but I will point out that Excel on a mac is a waste of time, if you're at all competent using Excel on a pc. I get the feeling it's been deliberately nobbled.
Of course, parallels provides a workaround (if you have office for PC), but it's still annoying.
posted by pompomtom at 5:18 PM on April 29, 2008
Of course, parallels provides a workaround (if you have office for PC), but it's still annoying.
posted by pompomtom at 5:18 PM on April 29, 2008
Can you say goodbye to XP worry-free? Absolutely.
Ubuntu will meet all the needs you list*, pretty much right out of the box; software to meet additional needs is easily available, and most of it is free; the user interface is, in my opinion, easier to deal with than either XP's or OS X's; it's about as free from vendor lock-in as an operating system could possibly be; installation is very easy, and community support is free and readily available. You owe it to yourself to try it out on your existing computer before deciding what to use on your new one.
*as long as you remember that iTunes is now called "rhythmbox" or "amarok".
posted by flabdablet at 5:19 PM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
Ubuntu will meet all the needs you list*, pretty much right out of the box; software to meet additional needs is easily available, and most of it is free; the user interface is, in my opinion, easier to deal with than either XP's or OS X's; it's about as free from vendor lock-in as an operating system could possibly be; installation is very easy, and community support is free and readily available. You owe it to yourself to try it out on your existing computer before deciding what to use on your new one.
*as long as you remember that iTunes is now called "rhythmbox" or "amarok".
posted by flabdablet at 5:19 PM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
Further to what flabdablet says... I wish there was Amarok for OSX.
posted by pompomtom at 5:32 PM on April 29, 2008
posted by pompomtom at 5:32 PM on April 29, 2008
It's like Ubuntu is the OS equivalent of the guy at the back of every rally with the "LEGALIZE POT" sign.
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:38 PM on April 29, 2008 [5 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:38 PM on April 29, 2008 [5 favorites]
I have at least one moment of regret everyday. I can't find files, menus are different, ejecting a CD is different, everything is different. I sometimes feel like a person with a severe learning disability when I'm using my Mac...
...Then I think back to the time when I used a PC. All the "fatal errors," freezes, pop-ups, spyware, viruses, and clutter annoyed me a lot more than the little idiosyncrasies I encounter with OSX.
posted by HotPatatta at 5:39 PM on April 29, 2008
...Then I think back to the time when I used a PC. All the "fatal errors," freezes, pop-ups, spyware, viruses, and clutter annoyed me a lot more than the little idiosyncrasies I encounter with OSX.
posted by HotPatatta at 5:39 PM on April 29, 2008
Best answer: I'm hesitant to jump into the Mac v. Windows v. Linux debate, but really, it's often a matter of what you're used to, how able you are to assimilate new ways of doing things. As for hardware issues, I have to wonder how much of an angry anomaly these people are, as I've now had two macs, and had to have a total of two repairs (1 each) in 5 years. I had such a completely annoying experience on my Windows PCs, I can't even recall how many times I took it in to be fixed. And lock in on software/hardware? Hardly. There are tons of software options, often at much more reasonable prices then Windows (iWork being a great example)
And the part about them being more expensive? You truly get what you pay for, in reliability, ease of use, and never mind that, resale value. I don't know where the original article is, but someone calculated the value of similar machines (Mac v. PC) using real world figures from average Craigs List, Amazon etc. sales, and every time, the resale value of the Mac made the end cost, and ultimate value better then PC. I've had an iBook since 2004, have since bought a Macbook, and my wife continues to use the iBook, no problems.
As for the usability/lack of it, I think different people have different brains, so that some ways of doing things make absolutely no sense to them, while others it's clearly obvious. i.e. the Spotlight comments above.
So, will you regret it? Sorry to say, it's entirely dependent on your particular experience. I wish you well, whichever way you go. I'd say get a Mac and use Parellels, have your cake and eat it too. And as for 1 v. 2 button mouse? Get a two button one, it can easily be made to work on a Mac. Or get used to what (I find) a simpler, faster experience using 1.
posted by healthyliving at 6:11 PM on April 29, 2008
And the part about them being more expensive? You truly get what you pay for, in reliability, ease of use, and never mind that, resale value. I don't know where the original article is, but someone calculated the value of similar machines (Mac v. PC) using real world figures from average Craigs List, Amazon etc. sales, and every time, the resale value of the Mac made the end cost, and ultimate value better then PC. I've had an iBook since 2004, have since bought a Macbook, and my wife continues to use the iBook, no problems.
As for the usability/lack of it, I think different people have different brains, so that some ways of doing things make absolutely no sense to them, while others it's clearly obvious. i.e. the Spotlight comments above.
So, will you regret it? Sorry to say, it's entirely dependent on your particular experience. I wish you well, whichever way you go. I'd say get a Mac and use Parellels, have your cake and eat it too. And as for 1 v. 2 button mouse? Get a two button one, it can easily be made to work on a Mac. Or get used to what (I find) a simpler, faster experience using 1.
posted by healthyliving at 6:11 PM on April 29, 2008
The bottom line, Macs are "cool" and they are really great for some stuff, especially with media like music and video, and pictures too, but there it is more of a wash. For this, you pay dearly in the purchase price, upgrades and accessory software. The reliability and build quality also seems a bit suspect. You would be a fool to buy a mac laptop without Apple Care and that greatly adds to an already overly inflated price. Hell, you could buy two wintel boxes for the price of most macs and just throw the first one away if it develops a problem. Further, a closed system is a borked system, sorry Mac fans, but it is true, despite how cool Steve Jobs and all his beautiful and expensive toys may seem. There are good reasons for going Mac, but there are equally good reasons for saving money. It all depends upon your needs and how much you value "cool" or an idiot proof, if not efficient GUI interface. If price were no object, and the mac laptops came with a Trackpoint (although the higher end pros have very good track pads) I might be tempted to pay the 150 to 200% markup over a WinTel or Linux box. I actually tried to get a Linux laptop but it was just too much of a pain. They were hobbled on hardware and the savings was less than minimal. I am thinking of getting something like an Asus or so just because though. I am a Scot, and when we pinch a penny it bleeds big. I love my son's Mac, but it is coolness over form, function and value. Steve Jobs and his reality distortion field has suckered more people into buying overpriced hype than could ever be imagined. That being said, if I could ever convince my aged parents to finally buy a computer or even accept one as a gift from me, I would only ever let them get a Mac. They are the best for the initiated. They are the AOL of computers, although all the people who think that Macs are cool will dispute that just because AOL is considered so uncool. Cool is such a funny thing, and those overly caught up in it are really, just so not what they strive to be.
posted by caddis at 8:32 PM on April 29, 2008
posted by caddis at 8:32 PM on April 29, 2008
DoctorFedora: right on!
Why don't more people pay attention to that guy?
posted by flabdablet at 9:48 PM on April 29, 2008
Why don't more people pay attention to that guy?
posted by flabdablet at 9:48 PM on April 29, 2008
Minor point about the price of Macs:
Currently I use a 1.0 ghz mac and can stream YouTube and movie trailers just fine with a broadband modem. This mac was originally a 400mhz g4 that I put an upgraded video card (64 megs $140 several years ago), hard drive ($80 for 160 gigs), added USB 2.0 ($30) and processor ($269) in over the years. I'll probably do a final upgrade of the processor again to 1.8 ghz for another $269 minus whatever I get for the current upgraded processor.
Picked up a more modern Mac Mini for $450 off ebay too (1.5ghz, gig memory, wireless, bluetooth, works great for everything the original poster described). Sure I could spend 2k on a laptop, but spending more than $1000 for a computer is overkill I think and I use this machine to do graphic design. The wife picked up a g4 laptop for $300 which satisfies her surfing and wordprocessing needs, though she occasionally borrows mine to watch previous episodes of some tv shows.
In short, you can spend as little or much as you want on a Mac and Ebay is your friend.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:25 PM on April 29, 2008
Currently I use a 1.0 ghz mac and can stream YouTube and movie trailers just fine with a broadband modem. This mac was originally a 400mhz g4 that I put an upgraded video card (64 megs $140 several years ago), hard drive ($80 for 160 gigs), added USB 2.0 ($30) and processor ($269) in over the years. I'll probably do a final upgrade of the processor again to 1.8 ghz for another $269 minus whatever I get for the current upgraded processor.
Picked up a more modern Mac Mini for $450 off ebay too (1.5ghz, gig memory, wireless, bluetooth, works great for everything the original poster described). Sure I could spend 2k on a laptop, but spending more than $1000 for a computer is overkill I think and I use this machine to do graphic design. The wife picked up a g4 laptop for $300 which satisfies her surfing and wordprocessing needs, though she occasionally borrows mine to watch previous episodes of some tv shows.
In short, you can spend as little or much as you want on a Mac and Ebay is your friend.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:25 PM on April 29, 2008
my two cents: I have been a Windows user since forever, and I had been thinking about getting a Mac, but figured I'd do it sometime in the distant future. Then my PC died, and I needed an entirely new machine. I was hesitant to switch completely to a Mac, but now that they're all Intel machines that can run Windows (or Linux, or all three), getting a Mac was a no-brainer to me.
I bought an iMac last November and I'm really happy with it. I partitioned a sizable chunk for Windows, and can boot that up within OS X (with VMWare Fusion) or if I need more power for games, I boot it up in Windows (with BootCamp).
There are little niggling things that I don't like about the OS X interface compared to Windows--Finder is better in some ways and not so good in others, but overall the OS X interface is really pleasant to use.
If it were a either/or question, I'd be hesitant, but because you can do any OS with a Mac, it's, as I said earlier, a no-brainer.
posted by zardoz at 1:42 AM on April 30, 2008
I bought an iMac last November and I'm really happy with it. I partitioned a sizable chunk for Windows, and can boot that up within OS X (with VMWare Fusion) or if I need more power for games, I boot it up in Windows (with BootCamp).
There are little niggling things that I don't like about the OS X interface compared to Windows--Finder is better in some ways and not so good in others, but overall the OS X interface is really pleasant to use.
If it were a either/or question, I'd be hesitant, but because you can do any OS with a Mac, it's, as I said earlier, a no-brainer.
posted by zardoz at 1:42 AM on April 30, 2008
I am a Mac->PC convert, but my Mac was an older iBook, so I don't know how relevant that is. Still, I remember very well that back then everybody too raved about how much better macs were than Windows, whereas my mac was slower and much more unstable than a comparable Windows PC. I used to work on a helpdesk in a company that used Macs almost exclusively and I was not impressed with MacOS there as well.
For me, the biggest reason why I do not want to use MacOS at the moment are the ugly fonts for laptop screens. I am astounded that Apple still does not have something comparable to ClearType.
I don't know how it is in the US, but in my country I also found the warranty to be very limited and the AppleCare much more expansive than comparable PC brands.
posted by davar at 6:29 AM on April 30, 2008
For me, the biggest reason why I do not want to use MacOS at the moment are the ugly fonts for laptop screens. I am astounded that Apple still does not have something comparable to ClearType.
I don't know how it is in the US, but in my country I also found the warranty to be very limited and the AppleCare much more expansive than comparable PC brands.
posted by davar at 6:29 AM on April 30, 2008
For me, the biggest reason why I do not want to use MacOS at the moment are the ugly fonts for laptop screens. I am astounded that Apple still does not have something comparable to ClearType.
That isn't a bug; it's a feature. Apple's font rendering differs from Windows/ClearType in order to be more true to the design of the typeface at the cost of a little blurriness and reduced readability. You can read more about it here.
posted by cosmic osmo at 7:10 AM on April 30, 2008
That isn't a bug; it's a feature. Apple's font rendering differs from Windows/ClearType in order to be more true to the design of the typeface at the cost of a little blurriness and reduced readability. You can read more about it here.
posted by cosmic osmo at 7:10 AM on April 30, 2008
Thanks cosmic osmo. I know it is not a bug, I talked about this with an Apple Store employee who insisted I was wrong for preferring MS fonts because "everybody knew" that MacOS font handling was in fact superior to Windows font handling. Joel's article is interesting in that respect, though my experience is different: I was used to MacOS fonts, both at work and at home, and never looked back once I discovered ClearType.
Still, ClearType is optional in Windows, so I just assumed there would be a setting for something similar in MacOS as well. But maybe this is the Mac philosophy of not giving "too many" options?
posted by davar at 7:26 AM on April 30, 2008
Still, ClearType is optional in Windows, so I just assumed there would be a setting for something similar in MacOS as well. But maybe this is the Mac philosophy of not giving "too many" options?
posted by davar at 7:26 AM on April 30, 2008
You don't want to see MacOS X font rendering without smoothing, god it's absolutely hideous.
posted by bonaldi at 9:33 AM on April 30, 2008
posted by bonaldi at 9:33 AM on April 30, 2008
It seems like many of the "deal" breaking issues many people seem to mention about the Mac OS X on here are all user experience issues.
Right Click: OSX does have the right click built in. It's either Control + Click, or the more efficient and comfortable way on new MacBooks (or MBPs) is Two Fingers + Click.
Readability: Mac is greatly superior in the realm of font and image rendering, both in OSX and 3rd Party Apps. Look at Firefox on Windows, then look at it on OSX - the difference is like night and day.
Utilities: OSX offers all of the built in utilities you'll ever need to start your computing experience. From a disk/partition manager to a rich screen capture application and a magnification tool. Actually - the magnification tool alone is the one reason I will never switch back to Windows. The magnification tool is a seamlessly hidden utility that lets me hold down open-Apple + two-finger push in or out and will zoom in anywhere on the screen. The rendering is incredibly smooth. I use it if I need to see super small font and don't want to enlarge the font in the application, or if there's a tiny image on a website and I want to see it larger.
Microsoft Office: Not sure if some people on here got the memo, but MS Office 2008 for Mac was recently released. It runs quite smoothly and blows both Office 2004 and Office 2007 out of the water when it comes to usability. Give it a try - you'll love it.
Keynote: If you never need to make a presentation, you'll never regret not having PowerPoint. Apple's presentation software Keynote (Included in iWork), will allow you to create absolutely stunning slideshows.
iLife This suite alone is worth the cost of OS X - There's no video editing software on Windows that's as easy to use and feature rich as iMovie. iMovie 08 took some time to get used to, but once I got the hang of it - it has been smooth sailing.
Freeware + Shareware: Here's a real indication that many people on here came to the party late. The most useful Mac programs are not shareware. They are freeware. Yes - maybe 5 years ago this was not the case. Today many Windows freeware developers, along with the likes of new developers have flocked to Mac's OS X to design some of the most useful and beautifully designed free applications. If you don't believe me - go trudge around in the Download of the Day - Mac section of Lifehacker.
Security: The number one reason I switched from Windows was because my computer kept getting infected with spyware and/or malicious code of all sorts. Even though I'm pretty careful with everything I download, all it takes is one wrong click, and it's all over from there. There's not second that goes by where I even have to worry about what I'm opening up on the Mac.
Parallels + XP/Bootcamp: How can you have buyer's remorse about OSX, when the hardware can natively run Windows, in the event that -god forbid - you need to use a Windows only application?
posted by drkrdglo at 1:19 PM on April 30, 2008
Right Click: OSX does have the right click built in. It's either Control + Click, or the more efficient and comfortable way on new MacBooks (or MBPs) is Two Fingers + Click.
Readability: Mac is greatly superior in the realm of font and image rendering, both in OSX and 3rd Party Apps. Look at Firefox on Windows, then look at it on OSX - the difference is like night and day.
Utilities: OSX offers all of the built in utilities you'll ever need to start your computing experience. From a disk/partition manager to a rich screen capture application and a magnification tool. Actually - the magnification tool alone is the one reason I will never switch back to Windows. The magnification tool is a seamlessly hidden utility that lets me hold down open-Apple + two-finger push in or out and will zoom in anywhere on the screen. The rendering is incredibly smooth. I use it if I need to see super small font and don't want to enlarge the font in the application, or if there's a tiny image on a website and I want to see it larger.
Microsoft Office: Not sure if some people on here got the memo, but MS Office 2008 for Mac was recently released. It runs quite smoothly and blows both Office 2004 and Office 2007 out of the water when it comes to usability. Give it a try - you'll love it.
Keynote: If you never need to make a presentation, you'll never regret not having PowerPoint. Apple's presentation software Keynote (Included in iWork), will allow you to create absolutely stunning slideshows.
iLife This suite alone is worth the cost of OS X - There's no video editing software on Windows that's as easy to use and feature rich as iMovie. iMovie 08 took some time to get used to, but once I got the hang of it - it has been smooth sailing.
Freeware + Shareware: Here's a real indication that many people on here came to the party late. The most useful Mac programs are not shareware. They are freeware. Yes - maybe 5 years ago this was not the case. Today many Windows freeware developers, along with the likes of new developers have flocked to Mac's OS X to design some of the most useful and beautifully designed free applications. If you don't believe me - go trudge around in the Download of the Day - Mac section of Lifehacker.
Security: The number one reason I switched from Windows was because my computer kept getting infected with spyware and/or malicious code of all sorts. Even though I'm pretty careful with everything I download, all it takes is one wrong click, and it's all over from there. There's not second that goes by where I even have to worry about what I'm opening up on the Mac.
Parallels + XP/Bootcamp: How can you have buyer's remorse about OSX, when the hardware can natively run Windows, in the event that -god forbid - you need to use a Windows only application?
posted by drkrdglo at 1:19 PM on April 30, 2008
waaaaay down here.
switched to Mac about a year ago. Nothing but smiles. No virii, not as many pop-ups.
If you don't like a given app for word processing, NeoOffice is free and will suffice.
The nicest part? Everything just works. No drivers, no conflicts...some fine-tuning is necessary, but it's pretty good.
posted by flowerofhighrank at 1:43 PM on April 30, 2008
switched to Mac about a year ago. Nothing but smiles. No virii, not as many pop-ups.
If you don't like a given app for word processing, NeoOffice is free and will suffice.
The nicest part? Everything just works. No drivers, no conflicts...some fine-tuning is necessary, but it's pretty good.
posted by flowerofhighrank at 1:43 PM on April 30, 2008
I own a Dell w/Vista and I use Macs fairly regularly in a computer lab. I can't stand them. I duel boot Ubuntu, and I like that. But Macs...I just plain don't like Macs. Not the keyboard, not the mouse, not the interface. I cannot comprehend why someone would pay 1.5 times the price for something just because it's shiny. The only people who need macs are serious graphics designers and musicians.
posted by Autarky at 2:14 PM on April 30, 2008
posted by Autarky at 2:14 PM on April 30, 2008
I started on Windows, switched to Mac because I heard a lot of great reviews. I didn't like it as much as Windows. In the end I'm now dual-booting Windows Vista and Ubuntu on the laptop, and have solely Ubuntu on the desktop.
Macs are very pretty and have some good exclusive apps, but Linux easily outdoes both, and is free.
posted by devlin at 3:02 PM on April 30, 2008
Macs are very pretty and have some good exclusive apps, but Linux easily outdoes both, and is free.
posted by devlin at 3:02 PM on April 30, 2008
I forgot to address the ability to customize the OS/applications/interface. Many people on here are also saying stuff like "you have no control over how the OS operates" or "OS X is too high level for a serious computer user." That's bull. Terminal + AppleScript + Automator allows even the most basic user become a power user, with full control over the OS in no time.
@damn dirty ape: The RAM and HD can be easily replaced in any of the intel Macs. Also - Apple Care has been a godsend - even fixing my macbook twice out of warranty. All you have to do is ask. If you don't want to take your iMac to an Apple Store, they'll either send you an over night return box (with, IME, 2 day turn around) or they'll set up an appointment for you at the closest authorized service center near your house.
I bought a Mac is absolutely no Apple loyalty. However, quality service and value of OS X have given me all the loyalty I need to want to buy another Mac.
For my final word of advice - to be fair - the plastic on my Macbook has cracked (from design defects) six times. Yes, six. Sure I've had to send it back to Apple each time, but their CS reps are extremely nice and they usually have my laptop back to me within two days. For me though, the benefit of OS X far outweighs the cost of the laptop having a crappy build. If Apple's customer service wasn't as on the ball, I'm sure it would be a different story. I'm also sure in the new MacBook revision they will address the design issue threatening the build quality.
posted by drkrdglo at 3:27 PM on April 30, 2008
@damn dirty ape: The RAM and HD can be easily replaced in any of the intel Macs. Also - Apple Care has been a godsend - even fixing my macbook twice out of warranty. All you have to do is ask. If you don't want to take your iMac to an Apple Store, they'll either send you an over night return box (with, IME, 2 day turn around) or they'll set up an appointment for you at the closest authorized service center near your house.
I bought a Mac is absolutely no Apple loyalty. However, quality service and value of OS X have given me all the loyalty I need to want to buy another Mac.
For my final word of advice - to be fair - the plastic on my Macbook has cracked (from design defects) six times. Yes, six. Sure I've had to send it back to Apple each time, but their CS reps are extremely nice and they usually have my laptop back to me within two days. For me though, the benefit of OS X far outweighs the cost of the laptop having a crappy build. If Apple's customer service wasn't as on the ball, I'm sure it would be a different story. I'm also sure in the new MacBook revision they will address the design issue threatening the build quality.
posted by drkrdglo at 3:27 PM on April 30, 2008
I forgot to address the ability to customize the OS/applications/interface.
You also forgot to read the thread. A number of your points have been addressed.
Right click: It's not just hardware.
Readability: Is wholly subjective. Lots of people prefer Windows' rendering, for valid reasons.
Microsoft Office: I was talking about 2008, which couldn't blow my rubber duckie out of the bath at usability or anything else.
Bootcamp: Because sometimes the hardware aint all that? for instance, it seems beyond Apple to make a laptop that gets more than three hours of battery life in the real world (or a claimed five), while wintel laptops can be pushing nine hours. Not to mention your Macbook has been back at Apple six times.
As for customizability of OS X. Oh yeh? Try to change Leopard's appearance then. Go on. I hate the new all-brushed all-gray theme, but am powerless to affect it. On Windows I've got the choice of three different MS-approved themes, one of which is nice :)
posted by bonaldi at 3:51 PM on April 30, 2008
You also forgot to read the thread. A number of your points have been addressed.
Right click: It's not just hardware.
Readability: Is wholly subjective. Lots of people prefer Windows' rendering, for valid reasons.
Microsoft Office: I was talking about 2008, which couldn't blow my rubber duckie out of the bath at usability or anything else.
Bootcamp: Because sometimes the hardware aint all that? for instance, it seems beyond Apple to make a laptop that gets more than three hours of battery life in the real world (or a claimed five), while wintel laptops can be pushing nine hours. Not to mention your Macbook has been back at Apple six times.
As for customizability of OS X. Oh yeh? Try to change Leopard's appearance then. Go on. I hate the new all-brushed all-gray theme, but am powerless to affect it. On Windows I've got the choice of three different MS-approved themes, one of which is nice :)
posted by bonaldi at 3:51 PM on April 30, 2008
I recently migrated from Windows to a Mac. Here are some migration tips:
1) Use Firefox and Thunderbird on your PC before you switch to a Mac. Migrating your bookmarks, email, and addresses is easy and It Just Works when you put things in the right place on the Mac.
2) Install NeoOffice and configure it to save documents in Microsoft .doc format, spreadsheets in Microsoft .xls format, etc. Unless you use uncommon formatting tricks this will work "just like Word and Excel" for both reading files created by Windows users with Microsoft Office, and the files you create and send will open just fine on their computers as well. Plus, you save $$$ by not buying Microsoft Office.
3) Don't get a Mac if you MUST use a specific software program that is available on Windows only. My father was in Real Estate and most RE software is Windows only. Now that he's retired and no longer using the RE software, I'm going to migrate him to a Mac shortly.
If you are a uber geek or power user, I'm assuming you wouldn't have asked the question and would already know the answer. So, it's wise to take all the complaints from uber geeks and power users with a bit of salt.
Unscientific survey at a recent technical conference (Nanog 49) found that about 30% of the laptops were Macs. So while some uber geeks and power users will complain that a Mac isn't good enough, many others are quite happy to use a Mac.
posted by jcdill at 4:42 PM on April 30, 2008
1) Use Firefox and Thunderbird on your PC before you switch to a Mac. Migrating your bookmarks, email, and addresses is easy and It Just Works when you put things in the right place on the Mac.
2) Install NeoOffice and configure it to save documents in Microsoft .doc format, spreadsheets in Microsoft .xls format, etc. Unless you use uncommon formatting tricks this will work "just like Word and Excel" for both reading files created by Windows users with Microsoft Office, and the files you create and send will open just fine on their computers as well. Plus, you save $$$ by not buying Microsoft Office.
3) Don't get a Mac if you MUST use a specific software program that is available on Windows only. My father was in Real Estate and most RE software is Windows only. Now that he's retired and no longer using the RE software, I'm going to migrate him to a Mac shortly.
If you are a uber geek or power user, I'm assuming you wouldn't have asked the question and would already know the answer. So, it's wise to take all the complaints from uber geeks and power users with a bit of salt.
Unscientific survey at a recent technical conference (Nanog 49) found that about 30% of the laptops were Macs. So while some uber geeks and power users will complain that a Mac isn't good enough, many others are quite happy to use a Mac.
posted by jcdill at 4:42 PM on April 30, 2008
I do not regret my migration to Mac. Now that I have considerable investment in terms of Software and Hardware on Mac, I would not go back to Windows platforms. My major issues with Windows have been the ever-running antivirus, random freezing etc. Mac worked out of the box.
posted by vinodlive at 5:13 PM on April 30, 2008
posted by vinodlive at 5:13 PM on April 30, 2008
Lest is seem that I hate the mac, I don't. It is a cool machine with very many neat things about it. It is expensive, and I am cheap. Most of the niggles that people have discussed here are really just that, niggles, small differences between different operating systems. It can take a little time to get comfortable with the alternative. I really do not think one is better than the other. They are merely different and each has some advantages. If the extra money is not an issue, and you do not have any windows only needs, I think you will not look back and regret the mac. You will pay extra, significantly, that is all.
posted by caddis at 6:40 PM on April 30, 2008
posted by caddis at 6:40 PM on April 30, 2008
I got a Macbook a few months ago after only ever having used Windows before. I haven't regretted it. I mean, it isn't like OSX is some sort of magical god that is going to make your computing time akin to orgasm, but frankly, it is prettier than Windows. Which matters to me. I've found it easy to use, on the whole. It takes a bit of figuring out, but once you've passed the main hurdles it goes fairly easily. I like that Macs come with a bunch of built in utilities that are pretty easy to find and use. Some things irritate me a bit, but really? Some things irritated me using Windows. There are no perfect products. I needed a laptop, didn't want to deal with Vista, got a Mac because they're nice machines and fun to use. Easy. One thing: I actually really really like Office 08, but I was using Office 97 on my old XP desktop, so... I might not be the best person to ask about that. Kinda like asking someone using one of those Nokia brick phones what they think of their new phone: they'll love it, but can you tell if they're using an iPhone or a Razr?
posted by MadamM at 8:49 PM on April 30, 2008
posted by MadamM at 8:49 PM on April 30, 2008
Thanks for the link to the article, cosmic osmo. I was somewhat aware of the differences between and reasons for Cleartype and OS X font rendering, but I hadn't seen it clearly laid out before. As for me, I run Ubuntu (grew up with Macs and an Amiga) and I immediately switch over the font rendering to something far more like OS X's to my eye. Customizability like that is something I enjoy about Linux. I use Windows XP at work, though. I don't think it's fair to say Apple is being uniquely "one true way" in its font rendering philosophy, since Windows (in any version) doesn't have an option to switch over to any variation of font rendering similar to OS X's.
I switched from using Macs because I like not being locked into a vendor and I like playing around with a computer. I love package systems for installing software, too. Still, although it's become much, much easier to use recently, no Linux variant that isn't preinstalled and carefully configured is going to have things "just work". That is the core Apple strength, made possible through its unity of hardware and software, along with a strong focus on and promotion of shared libraries and human interface guidelines.
posted by Gnatcho at 11:08 PM on April 30, 2008
I switched from using Macs because I like not being locked into a vendor and I like playing around with a computer. I love package systems for installing software, too. Still, although it's become much, much easier to use recently, no Linux variant that isn't preinstalled and carefully configured is going to have things "just work". That is the core Apple strength, made possible through its unity of hardware and software, along with a strong focus on and promotion of shared libraries and human interface guidelines.
posted by Gnatcho at 11:08 PM on April 30, 2008
If you are a uber geek or power user, I'm assuming you wouldn't have asked the question and would already know the answer. So, it's wise to take all the complaints from uber geeks and power users with a bit of salt.
I think this comment needs to be highlighted. As I read through this thread, I found that many of the people saying that they didn't like Mac OSX seemed to all be power users, complaining about how they couldn't tweak it the way they liked it. Those that weren't power users almost inevitably mentioned either linux or Ubuntu as their preferred operating system and I can tell you that even with the latest Ubuntu, this means most of them are power users in disguise!
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if you aren't a power user, then I think the Mac lives up to it's promise, which is that it just works. No crashing, no spyware and viruses, just a pleasant user experience (yes, the OS is different, but it's easy to get used to).
Heck, even if you are a power user, you can still enjoy a Mac. I'd consider myself a power user, and have plenty of experience with Windows and Linux, but I still prefer my Mac. This is because at home I don't want to spend 12 hours making my wireless work, I just want an easygoing machine that allows me to surf the web, check my mail and write the occasional letter or spreadsheet!
posted by ranglin at 11:43 PM on April 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
I think this comment needs to be highlighted. As I read through this thread, I found that many of the people saying that they didn't like Mac OSX seemed to all be power users, complaining about how they couldn't tweak it the way they liked it. Those that weren't power users almost inevitably mentioned either linux or Ubuntu as their preferred operating system and I can tell you that even with the latest Ubuntu, this means most of them are power users in disguise!
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if you aren't a power user, then I think the Mac lives up to it's promise, which is that it just works. No crashing, no spyware and viruses, just a pleasant user experience (yes, the OS is different, but it's easy to get used to).
Heck, even if you are a power user, you can still enjoy a Mac. I'd consider myself a power user, and have plenty of experience with Windows and Linux, but I still prefer my Mac. This is because at home I don't want to spend 12 hours making my wireless work, I just want an easygoing machine that allows me to surf the web, check my mail and write the occasional letter or spreadsheet!
posted by ranglin at 11:43 PM on April 30, 2008 [1 favorite]
I don't regret switching to Mac at home, though I have some issues with the hardware. (Both Macs I use are currently having hardware issues, while my 10+ year old PC laptop is not.) That 3-year optional warranty possibly needs to considered as part of your overall cost.
posted by uxo at 5:08 AM on May 1, 2008
posted by uxo at 5:08 AM on May 1, 2008
The RAM and HD can be easily replaced in any of the intel Macs.
Not to turn this into a nigglefest, but while it may be easy to replace the RAM and HD in a Mac Mini, getting the thing open is the hard part. I love mah mac mini, but would like to set realistic expectations.
posted by Challahtronix at 12:52 PM on May 1, 2008
Not to turn this into a nigglefest, but while it may be easy to replace the RAM and HD in a Mac Mini, getting the thing open is the hard part. I love mah mac mini, but would like to set realistic expectations.
posted by Challahtronix at 12:52 PM on May 1, 2008
I tried switching last year but I found the MacBook Pro to be much harder to use, for me, than a PC. All the problems related to user-interface issues. First, the fonts and UI elements were tiny and blurry, and there was foolproof way to change this or increase their size, and no ClearType setting. Everything was just too hard to read and see, and unlike on Windows, there's no universal OS-wide setting to increase the sizes of fonts and UI elements. Turning off font smoothing made the text look horrible. The MacBook Pro was also not available in a choice of native resolutions, so unlike with the ThinkPad, I couldn't just buy another one at 1280x800 and have everything be bigger, I was stuck with the 1440x900 that the MacBook comes in. This was the biggest problem. If they would have sold me a Mac with a lower native resolution I would have stuck with it and gotten used to the other annoyances. Apparently Apple only cares about graphic designers with 20/20 vision, and if you don't fit their mold, then they couldn't care less. PC's have to cater to everyone.
The other UI issues were more annoyances that I probably would have gotten used to in time. For instance, as a power user I use keyboard shortcuts as much as possible to speed up my work. I found that the Mac keyboard shortcuts were much worse. The Mac has three modifier keys and all the keyboard shortcuts were obscure combinations of these keys plus random keyboard keys, which you had to memorize. On Windows, the shortcuts are much easier to remember, because it offers two sets--menu-based shortcuts and Ctrl-key based shortcuts, and you can learn and use whichever are easier for you. The menu-based shortcuts are underlined to make them easy to see and remember. For instance, I hit Alt-F to open the File Menu, then hit S to save, C to close, X to exit, etc. This is much easier to remember than Control-Option-Shift-whatever. Also, the lack of a right mouse button was also intolerable, as was the lack of a trackpoint. I found the fact that all the apps share the same menubar at the top of the screen to not make any sense, and would end up with loads of open apps at a time because closing the window doesn't close the app.
posted by lsemel at 4:21 AM on May 2, 2008
The other UI issues were more annoyances that I probably would have gotten used to in time. For instance, as a power user I use keyboard shortcuts as much as possible to speed up my work. I found that the Mac keyboard shortcuts were much worse. The Mac has three modifier keys and all the keyboard shortcuts were obscure combinations of these keys plus random keyboard keys, which you had to memorize. On Windows, the shortcuts are much easier to remember, because it offers two sets--menu-based shortcuts and Ctrl-key based shortcuts, and you can learn and use whichever are easier for you. The menu-based shortcuts are underlined to make them easy to see and remember. For instance, I hit Alt-F to open the File Menu, then hit S to save, C to close, X to exit, etc. This is much easier to remember than Control-Option-Shift-whatever. Also, the lack of a right mouse button was also intolerable, as was the lack of a trackpoint. I found the fact that all the apps share the same menubar at the top of the screen to not make any sense, and would end up with loads of open apps at a time because closing the window doesn't close the app.
posted by lsemel at 4:21 AM on May 2, 2008
Playing devil's advocate I'd say that Windows software tends to be much more mature. Sure, on the average the quality of freeware for OS X is much, much higher, but Microsoft Office has been around for like decades and has pretty much every feature that you could need. Office:mac feels entirely foreign on my Leopard, and iWorks fails regularly at even the most basic tasks like indentation. And there's Outlook that's still unmatched by anything I've ever used. And the OS X file manager is pretty mediocre.
I switched a month ago. Wouldn't switch back. But I wouldn't say Vista is much worse either; they're quite close. Speaking as a power user.
posted by semi at 6:11 AM on May 7, 2008
I switched a month ago. Wouldn't switch back. But I wouldn't say Vista is much worse either; they're quite close. Speaking as a power user.
posted by semi at 6:11 AM on May 7, 2008
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This thread is closed to new comments.
As for going to Mac and regretting it, I certainly don't. But there must be someone out there that does.
There are a few things that i still need windows for [some online banking issues] so i just run XP in a parallels VM.
posted by moochoo at 10:17 AM on April 29, 2008