Replace old Shimano LX with XT/XTR

April 19, 2008 2:26 PM

VintageMTBFilter: I'm behind the times when it comes to MTB gear and I'm looking for suggestions for a new rear hub for my commuter bike, leading to perhaps some further upgrades down the road. My question regards upgrade paths for deraillers, shifters, and brakes.

My commuter bike is a Motiv Sonora, basically a medium-high-end bike from a (maybe defunct?) low-end manufacturer. Bascially it's a chro-moly frame with Shimano '94 LX components(7 speed rear). About 12 years ago, I upgraded the rear derailleur pulleys and installed Gore-tex Ride-on cables and the bike has shifted pretty much flawlessly ever since. I also built a nice set of wheels (also a dozen years ago) with White Industries Hubs, Mavic 217 rims, DT spokes and aluminum nips. The rear hub did not last long(8speed hub, run with a spacer to accomodate my 7 speed cassette), so I threw on a takeoff from my '94 Alivio tandem: a wide aluminum rim with cheap-ass straight gage spokes and an Alivio 7speed hub(still using my '94 LX Cassette). That rear wheel has been on my commuter for almost a decade and I'm sick of it.

Lately I've also noticed that the shifting is not as crisp as it used to be, though everything still works pretty good. I had a stretched chain about a decade ago and a new middle chain-ring and a new chain fixed that problem, but that was probably the last hardware added to my bike. What I would like to do is work out some sort of cost-efficient program to upgrade the drivetrain and brakes to at least 8-speed XT or XTR and I'm looking for advice on an upgrade path. Thanks to Sheldon Brown(RIP), I've always enjoyed great braking from my LX cantilevers due to proper set-up, but am wondering if V-brakes are a viable upgrade with the existing bosses on frame and fork(RockShox Quadra 10, BTW). I guess if I had my druthers, I'd love to find a whole '96-'97 8 speed XTR grouppo for about $50, but I know that won't be happening anytime soon as even the old stuff seems to retain it's value. I forgot to mention I would also like to land a great 8 speed hub to begin with. I could run my 7-speed cassette with a spacer to start and lace it to the Mavic 217 rim that has been gathering dust on the stripped out White Industries hub for nearly a decade now. The front wheel with the White Ti Tracker hub and matching 217 rim has been great forever for me, so I'm keeping that, don't care a lick if my new rear wheel has any any sibling resemblance to the front.

I guess I'm really looking for advice on stuff to keep away from. Are there crappy years that I should avoid? Is there a particular year of 8 speed hub or drive-train that was especially superior? Are there some really lousy cranks that I should avoid, etc.?

Thanks in advance,

posted by Rafaelloello to Travel & Transportation (8 answers total)

Best answer: Wow. That's a lot of questions. I probably won't answer alll of them but I'll have a crack at some.

Firstly, V brakes should be completely interoperable with your current brake bosses. Shimano and Avid both make fine, economical v-brakes. You will find however, that your cantilever brake levers are not an ideal match for v-brakes. Yes, they will work, but the mechanical advantage of the lever is mismatched to that of the brake. So you're better off swapping out both brake calipers and levers at the same time. I'd go with Avid, but that's just personal preference. I find that there's not a whole heap of difference between well set up cantilevers and well set up linear pull brakes, but that it's definitely easier to get power out of linear pull brakes.

Pretty much any current rear hub will be 8-speed compatible. You might want to give some though to getting a rear hub with a disc brake mount, since this wheel may well outlast the frame it's being made for, and your next frame will most likely have disc brakes. This site - Bike Pro - is an archive of a print catalogue that a bike part mailorder company put out in the mid 90s. It's a pretty good historical guide to what was around in the years immediately following when your bike was made. This is of course assuming that you want to keep some of the components roughly historically accurate and don't just want to replace them all with modern versions.

You won't go wrong with a Shimano XT rear hub. They are relatively cheap and ubiquitous and are surprisingly user servicable for a Shimano part, right down to traditional cup and cone bearings. A good rear hub that uses cartridge bearings is the UK made Hope brand. They make a bewlidering array of front and rear hubs, but I'm sure an email to the factory will get a recommendation from the guys that make them.

As far as cranks go, beware of the ubiquitous 'milled from billet aluminium' cranks that typified the late 90s US aftermarket industry. To be sure, there were some good ones in amongst it all, but there were a few brands which were notorious for cracking around the bottom bracket interface. Forged alloy cranks out of Japan from Sugino/suntour and Shimano were less sexy, but far better. Also, keep in mind that bottom brackets have gone through three major evolutions since your bike was new. Your bike is of the era where the Shimano square taper BB ruled supreme. they weren't user servicable to any real degree, but they were easy to install, dead reliable and pretty cheap. Then came a few intermediate years of competing splined interfaces like ISIS and Octalink. Which have now morphed into the external bearing BB systems from the likes of Shimano, Raceface, Truvativ etc. To be honest, I'd avoid the splined systems and either stick with the old UN-series square taper jobbies or go with a new external bearing crank. The reason for this is that many of the bearings in the Isis and Octalink BB's were simply not up to snuff. Which might be OK if you're swapping the BB out every season on a race bike, but it's not what you want on a commuter.

If this were my project, I would tackle it thusly. First, trawl some of the big web-based stores for closeout specials on v-brakes and levers. Secondly, I'd look at getting current model rear hub, possibly with provision for a disc, and swap it onto that Mavic 217 rim. Thirdly, I'd replace the drivetrain with Shimano Deore LX external bearing cranks, SRAM X-0 twist shifters, a 9-speed SRAM road cassette and a SRAM x-7 rear derailleur. Fourthly, I'd ditch the quadra for a ridgid fork, and run full length fenders front and rear. Why? V's will most likely be an improvement on your current setup. A disc rear bug will be somewhat future proof. The Shimano cranks are simple, well made and have aftermarket rings available for them. The combination of SRAM twist shifters and rear derailleur is about as bullet proof and durable as they come and are perfect for a commuter. A road cassette is usually a better patch to commuting duties than a wide-range MTB cassette, with big jumps between the ratios. And finally, your Quadra fork is probably knackered, and good fucking luck finding someone who can service it. It's probably just about rigid by now anyway, so replace it with something simple - you'll save weight into the bargain.
posted by tim_in_oz at 4:18 PM on April 19, 2008

I'm like "OMG you are running a 94' cassette on a commuter bike! I used to wear out that hyperglide shit in just a few winters!". I'm no expert but even a well maintained mid-level bike that old should have serious problems by now . If you are looking for an upgrade path for a bike that old its basically replacing every moving part and since that includes the fork in your case buying a new(er) bike will be cheaper.

Your rear derailleur is probably still in descent shape but the hyperglide cassettes, chains and shifters from that era simply do not last. Take your bike to a professional. A good bike repair person will tell you if your bike is dying or not.

And I second everything tim says. It's just that I would put down that amount of work in a bike. I'd just buy a new one.
posted by uandt at 5:02 PM on April 19, 2008

Response by poster: Thanks to tim_in_oz and uandt for your suggestions. I'm a big rapidfire fan, never rode a mile on grip-shift(color me biased). I'm also big on doing my own maintenance, that's why I bought Jobst Brandt's book, a truing stand, dishing tool, and a bunch of specialty tools over the years. I guess I have this feeling like my engineering degree will be rescinded if I let other mechanical professionals touch my bike or if I ever read the user manual before attempting to use a product;-)
posted by Rafaelloello at 5:21 PM on April 19, 2008

> I'm a big rapidfire fan, never rode a mile on grip-shift(color me biased)

Gripshift vs paddle style shifters is a Chevy-vs-Ford thing. I'm a gripshift guy, but I'm not evangelical about it. SRAM make paddle style shifters that are very nice indeed, and are significantly more adjustable than the Shimano stuff of yesteryear.

I kept a Suntour XC-Pro drivetrain running for 10 years after the company folded, so it can be done, but at some point it's a whole lot easier to bite the bullet and go with a modern drivetrain. You might be pleasantly surprised at the improvements that have been made in the last 10 years.
posted by tim_in_oz at 6:07 PM on April 19, 2008

Best answer: i can't quite put the pic together from what you wrote, but i'll just throw in some general comments (like i always do).
- don't buy XTR, it doesnt sound right for you. it is built costly to save weight, but not for increased durability.
- don't buy second hand, it just doesn't pay off. they are mechanical parts that wear, and you wont be able to tell how worn they are.
- "disk-specific" hubs are cheap, as tim suggested, and cheap disk brakes are suprisingly good. you will be pleased if you head down this path.
- better to upgrade the chain and chain-rings together, and the derailluer can be done at any time
- also as tim mentioned, in shimano there is cross over between road and mountain, because they both use compatible flanges now, so the road derailuer or cluster can be used on a mountain hub. so pple think you get a better ratio and better shifting with this, if the bike is not being used off road
posted by edtut at 7:41 PM on April 19, 2008

Response by poster: Gripshift vs paddle style shifters is a Chevy-vs-Ford thing

I agree, and I should probably give grip-shift a look-see one of these days. When I used to do lots of technical trails, my reasoning against grip-shift was that I didn't want to be changing wrist angles over rough stuff. I don't recall having any wrist injuries, but I don't rate my wrists as being particularly stout. I guess the new rigs are so plush that they have cup-holders for your Starbucks mug and an option to shift wirelessly with your apple remote (iGear 08?).
posted by Rafaelloello at 8:08 AM on April 21, 2008

Gripshift vs paddle style shifters is a Chevy-vs-Ford thing

And I'm a thumbshifter guy. What does that translate into?
posted by uandt at 10:34 AM on April 21, 2008

Response by poster: And I'm a thumbshifter guy. What does that translate into?

You're one of the few, the proud...
...a brawny Yugo guy.
posted by Rafaelloello at 3:44 PM on April 22, 2008