Can an Aspie and an NT have a genuinely fulfilling relationship?

April 17, 2008 7:07 PM

Is it possible for a relationship between one neuro-typical partner and one partner with asperger's to be in a genuinely fulfilling relationship?

I'm currently at a cross-roads in my relationship, trying to decide whether or not I have it in me to put in all of the necessary work to make it actually, well, work.

I'm the NT and he's the Aspie. We were together for almost two years, living together for one. As time has gone on, I feel like we've devolved into friendship, and ended up actually breaking up with him. Since the break up, he's decided that he wants to do the work necessary to make the relationship work and is trying to convince me to give him a second chance. (Note: I was the person pulling the weight of the relationship while we were actually in it. My understanding is this is fairly typical for an NT/Aspie relationship.)

I started doing some research, and going to some discussion forums, and it seems like our problems are pretty typical for an NT/Aspie relationship-- poor communication that never seems to approach a deeper level, no empathy or consideration of my feelings on his part, his inability to verbalize or express emotions, completely lacking to almost nonexistent sex life, etc.

Every discussion forum that I've been to is full of NT people who either want to get out of their relationship, or have already gotten out of it. They are full of people who talk about how their relationships have left them feeling emotionally unfulfilled, sexually unfulfilled, and absolutely depressed. People are generally talking about how to make a relationship with an Aspie work, when you're NT, you have to find outside people to get the emotional fulfillment and the deeper levels of conversation because it's really not possible to get it from your Aspie partner.

I've read books about having partners with Asperger's, and I know that there are successful couples out there but they feel like they're few and far between. Is the majority of the experience out there really unhappy NT partners who decide to stick it out for whatever reason? Is it possible to have that emotional and sexual fulfillment (which I think are key in a romantic relationship) from a partner with asperger's? Does anyone have any positive experiences they'd be willing to share, or can anyone point me to any sort of discussion forum where most of the people there are actually happy?

throw away email: [e-mail]

posted by anonymous to human relations (16 comments total)

My partner has ADD, not Asperger's, but I have found that healthy people in happy relationships do not frequent Internet forums for a given disorder, so I'm not surprised that everyone you run across seems to be breaking up or about to. I don't know whether or not this is the norm; certainly people who aren't typical can be difficult to live with, but I think that the Internet is a really bad gauge. I've also found that you cannot let others gauge what you "should" be able to tolerate from your partner. You have your needs, and they are yours alone, irrespective of whether or not another person would need the same thing. What has helped me is accepting that my partner, through no fault of his own, will never be able to meet some of my needs, and either I can get them met elsewhere, or I can choose to accept who he is. The more accepting I am, the happier we are together.

I'm not saying this is remotely easy, but it's necessary. You have my deepest compassion.
posted by desjardins at 7:38 PM on April 17, 2008

My guess is that you'll get a lot of "dump him" responses. That's because your post was completely negative. At no point do you say, "in spite of these issues, he's really fun to be around" or anything like that. For all I know, there are lots of positives, and you may just not be listing them because you don't think they're pertinent. But I wanted to warn you how this comes across.

There's no such thing as an NT/Aspie relationship. There are just relationships between two people -- two complex people -- and in some cases, some of these people have Asperger's. If an NT/Aspie relationship fails, there are too many factors to say for sure that the cause was Aspergers. Of course, if Aspergers (or ADD or whatever is present), it's easy to point to that and claim (and really feel like) that's the cause. But you can't know that.

The forums prove nothing. People go to those forums BECAUSE their relationships are troubled. I'm in a happy relationship (I'm an Aspie; my wife isn't), but I don't come into your radar because I don't post on such forums -- nor does my wife. My happy marriage is anecdotal, too. It doesn't really tell you much.

In any relationship, both people have their problems. I'm sure that, even as an NT, you're not 100% easy to live with. Relationships work because both people are willing to work on, work through, solve, live with or overlook problems. An Aspie is no different. Aspies may have to work harder at certain things, but they can do the work if they choose to. So once again, it's not about Aspergers, it's about the individual.

So the real question is, can you and your boyfriend -- two PEOPLE -- make it work? No one here can answer that for you. But even if you can't work it out, that says nothing about whether you could have a happy relationship with some other Aspie. It just says you can't have a happy relationship with your boyfriend.

I hope you can!
posted by grumblebee at 8:09 PM on April 17, 2008 [5 favorites]

I was the person pulling the weight of the relationship (...) poor communication that never seems to approach a deeper level, no empathy or consideration of my feelings on his part, his inability to verbalize or express emotions

I wasn't going to answer, because I had to look up what Asperger's was, so I obviously know little about this. But as I was reading what it was, and before I read your description that I just quoted, frankly, I found myself wondering why anyone would want to be involved with someone with the syndrome.

It seems like the problems that you describe are not mere problems in the relationship between the two of you - they're essentially what Asperger's is. Lack of demonstrable empathy. Lack of emotional interaction. Lack of basic social interaction skills.

Do you honestly want to spend the rest of your life with someone who does not, and cannot, empathize with you, or at least not be able to do so in a way that you would notice? Someone who does not, and cannot, emotionally satisfy you? Someone who does not, and cannot, communicate with you on any meaningfully deep level?

I don't mean to be a downer, and I'm sorry if I'm out of line, but I cannot imagine why you would want this. And I can't help but notice that you've said absolutely nothing positive about yoru relationship, unless you count that it "devolved into friendship".

Again, I know little to nothing about this, so take all of what I'm saying with a grain of salt. And if it works out for you and makes you happy, fantastic. But I can't imagine why you'd want this.
posted by Flunkie at 8:25 PM on April 17, 2008 [2 favorites]

For a long time, we thought I had asperger's. I had problems relating to people. I had problems reading their emotional states, and had to ask a lot of questions if I really wanted to be involved in the relationship ... me not knowing annoyed my partner, and me asking questions annoyed my partner. It was a lose/lose scenario.

The thing is -- how did you get involved with him in the first place if he's an Aspie and you're a NT? Usually the relationship has to have a reason to start in the first place, and Aspies don't give people reasons to start relationships with them. Did you see him out? Did he seek you out? Did you get hooked up together with friends? Did you start attending Neurotypicals Anonymous or something?

Turns out in the end that I was dealing with some pretty serious anxiety problems that had dogged me my entire life and had finally come to a head. After learning this, getting help, and getting medicated, the emotional and communication issues disappeared. Autism of any sort, but especially aspergers, is often misdiagnosed... smart people, it turns out, are really good at covering up their mental issues.

The gist of what I perceived is that you're not happy in the relationship, but I don't think it has anything to do with you being a neurotypical and him being an aspie.

If you want to keep the relationship, re-set your expectations and set them low. (Easier said than done, you might want to get some talk therapy with a neuropsychologist -- not a social worker or counselor -- to help you. The neuropsychologist background will help them understand your side of the story better.) But it sounds like you're really not happy. If that's the case, get out of the relationship, but don't you dare base it on your labels. Base your reasons for getting out of it on communication issues, emotional issues, and whatever else goes into it.

Breaking up with him because he's something and you're not something is a cop-out.

Which is probably why, if you're at all a good person, you're having problems with it.
posted by SpecialK at 9:13 PM on April 17, 2008 [2 favorites]

I agree with the poster who said:

> There's no such thing as an NT/Aspie relationship.

However, I do not agree with the poster who said:

> Breaking up with him because he's something and you're not something is a cop-out.

Bottom line, it doesn't matter what conditions he has, or you don't, or whatever. Conditions do not a person make.

It's not a "cop out" to want to be in a relationship that makes you feel comfortable, warm, reciprocated and loved. And it's also not a cop-out to remove yourself from a situation where you do not feel those ways.

What matters is how you feel in the relationship, overall. And it sounds like what you feel is not very good (or good for you).

What good are you doing yourself, or him, if you take on a relationship as obligation, like a cross to bear, rather than out of love & joy?
posted by amyh at 2:45 AM on April 18, 2008 [4 favorites]

Torey Hayden has an Autism/Aspbergers section on her message board.
posted by brujita at 7:35 AM on April 18, 2008

One of my old NT housemates faced a similar situation, and not only decided to try things with the Aspie, but married him. It was very roller-coaster-y... back and forth between "accepting" periods where everything seemed fine, and "needy" times where she probably pushed him a little too hard to be more normal. In just a few years, there ended up being a separation, the predictable other people during the separation, a reconciliation and second try, and ultimately a second wave of other people before the inevitable divorce. They'd claim otherwise, because they had "us against the world" syndrome (all of their friends/family were telling both of them to break up constantly, some even went as far as to attempt to instigate it "for their own good"), but I doubt there were very many happy days in that relationship.

This isn't to say you can't make it work, it's just what story I can offer. If you are the kind of person who legitimately doesn't "need" much from anyone else, maybe this could work for you -- if you'd just be the one sacrificing all your needs to make it work, it probably won't. People who have to do most/all of the giving in a relationship inevitably tire of getting so little in return, and end up pretty bitter... even if they went into it willingly.
posted by Pufferish at 7:55 AM on April 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

In addition to Flunkie and AmyH's excellent comments, consider this: What happens if you marry this man and have a child, or children, with him? A man who is emotionally detached and incapable of empathy or closeness will NOT, repeat NOT, make a good father. Things that a mature woman can put up with in a relationship can be devastating to a child. Do you want your kids to grow up thinking they are unlovable because "Daddy doesn't love us?" Also, if you are the one doing all the giving in the marriage, what will that tell your kids about what a marriage is supposed to be like? That men are selfish takers and women martyr-like givers?

Especially if you are the one pulling the whole weight of the relationship, for the love of Pete don't have children with this man. Unless you are prepared to be both father and mother to the kids and shore up their self-esteem when they inevitably begin to wonder what they did to make Daddy act like he does towards them (and you).
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:07 AM on April 18, 2008

Anecdotally, John Elder Robinson's LOOK ME IN THE EYE is a memoir of his life with Asperger's, including his secure marriage and his relationship with his child. You might find it interesting.
posted by liketitanic at 8:17 AM on April 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

amyh: It's not a "cop out" to want to be in a relationship that makes you feel comfortable, warm, reciprocated and loved. And it's also not a cop-out to remove yourself from a situation where you do not feel those ways.

Amen. My partner and I were discussing our relationship last night, and I told him that while I understand and accept that his ADD behavior is not intentional or personally directed at me, it still affects me. There's nothing wrong with being honest (to yourself and to others) about how it affects you. Once, my partner accidentally stepped on my foot. He didn't mean to hurt me, it wasn't intentional, it just happened. I still said OUCH!!

I have days, weeks, months where I question if I have the mental and emotional fortitude to stay in this relationship. It's really important to accept myself and my own tolerance level. In my case, I have to set firm and obvious boundaries with my partner (I don't know how it works with Aspergers). I also have to do a lot of work on myself - and honestly, that's part of the reason I stay. I have had to push myself to become a much more patient and compassionate person than I would have otherwise. The relationship is not so much about who he is and what he gives me, but who I am and the person I can become.
posted by desjardins at 8:21 AM on April 18, 2008 [2 favorites]

Sure it can work, if you *both* are willing to learn what the other partner needs to be fulfilled in the relationship. But that implies that you both like each other and enjoy each other's company first. If that's not there, you both will not be happy.

He has to learn to trust you and feel safe with you, so that he can learn to share his feelings without worrying that you are judging him or will look down upon him for feeling a certain way. And you have to learn how to react to him in a way that doesn't exacerbate what he's feeling.

The people I've met with these disorders aren't freaks with no emotions. They do have problems acknowledging and expressing their emotions. And they do have the misconception that other people are the same way they are. So they don't realize that people have different needs than they do. Once they learn and accept this, they can learn to be good partners and parents.

The "why doesn't daddy love me" issues usually stem from people who do not do these things.
posted by gjc at 8:32 AM on April 18, 2008

To answer your question: yes, it can work. I'm figuratively waving to you from a happy marriage.

For all the people saying "I don't understand why you'd want to be involved with someone like that" - well, like that covers a really broad range of folks, all of whom are individuals. And as gjc pointed out, we're not talking about people incapable of love. We're talking about people incapable of empathy, which is not the same thing.

Anon, you're welcome to MeMail me.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:48 AM on April 18, 2008

We're also not talking about people incapable of empathy -- not necessarily. Maybe some Aspies are. I'm not. I feel deeply for other people. When I was younger, I didn't know how to SHOW it. I wasn't lacking in feelings -- I was just lacking in social cues. Social cues are learnable, at least for some.
posted by grumblebee at 9:00 AM on April 18, 2008

Trailing on what grumble bee said, one can't say "aspie" and know exactly what that person will be like. I'm not diagnosed as aspie, but see that I have many matching symtoms, but think that I fall just short of aspergers. Ms. nobeagle is definitely NT, and thinks that I'm without a doubt aspie, even without a diagnosis (never tried getting a yay or nay). All relationships need continual work and tuneups, but if both parties are interested in the mutual work and tuneups, then an NT/aspie relationship should certainly be feasible.

One of my big failings is that I can't believibly tell a lie (I can avoid bluntness and try to say things nicely, but it has to be within the realm of honesty). It's gotten me rejected at border crossings, it's cost us mutual friends, and initially it caused a lot of hurt to Ms. nobeagle. However, since that's become one of the things that she really likes about me (altho she wishes that I could at least lie to other people). Sure, it might be hurtful when someone won't say that you're the hottest piece of ass ever. But it's another thing to hear someone say that you're beautiful, smart, and loved and know that they actually mean it, and they're not just going through the motions. (again, all aspies will be different; I'm sure some are adept liars)

Why'd you start dating him in the first place: is he sweet, and gentle? Honesty? Looks? Shared interests? Weigh that against how far he's currently failing in what else you want from a relationship. Add to the weight whether or not you think that he will put in the work. Keep in mind that it might take quite a while to see improvement, even if he's really working hard. Are his good points worth it for you to invest more time?

Sadly, one last thing, is you might want to read up on which points are likely to actually change. While with practice one can get better at introspection, and attempts to verbalise the results, I'm not sure how likely sex drive is to change. It could be that he's just missing a bit of emotional closeness, and once you to bridge that, the fire starts. Some people just have naturally higher or lower sex drives, regardless of NT or not.
posted by nobeagle at 9:40 AM on April 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

I had the same problem with my last boyfriend - no info for the NT girl. We ended up breaking up due to the whole lack of sex, lack of spark thing after 2 years. It's been six months, and we're still very good friends. What's interesting to me is that he's had no interest in pursuing other relationships, and seems much happier being single with a good friend that he can talk about his various areas of expertise with than having a partner who wants insights into his inner life and so on.

I find that I am also happier with this arrangement. He is a wonderful person, but my emotional needs are such that he could not fulfill them, and that's ok.

I wish you the best of luck - it was NO FUN for the last few months of our relationship.
posted by palindromic at 7:50 PM on April 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

I'm about a hair's width into being aspergers from the high-functioning autism end of the spectrum. I'm as aspergers as they come.

My husband and I are happily married, though. Our relationship has its challenges, sure. I suck at being empathetic, but I try. I don't pick up on nonverbal cues, so he's learnt to verbalise some more. I don't have nonverbal cues, so he's learnt to rely on my spoken word. Our communications skills are excellent, because we talk about how we communicate quite often, and try and refine those techniques, to later apply them when we have something to discuss. The sex is occasionally lacking, but that's nothing to do with the aspergers, more's the pity.

I had one asperger's parent, my father; I do not now, and have never previously, doubted my father's love for me. To those who said an asperger's male can't make a good father: bully to you - my dad was a very good parent, better than a lot of 'normals' I've seen. Admittedly, I do doubt my own ability to be a good mother - but that's not all the aspergers, again. The issues there are other, and deeper.

Incidentally, some of the issues you cite - I've seen them in just about every troubled relationship I've looked at, to some extent. Lack of consideration or empathy; lack of communication; inability or unwillingness to verbalise feelings. Whilst that's present in aspergers, a lot of those are also present in any immature person I've ever seen, especially in melodramatic females. I have a 'no ESP' rule: if you don't say it out loud, clearly, in my presence, and talk with me enough so I am sure I understand, it doesn't count. No hints, no 'but if you loved me you'd just know', no games, nothing. This includes emotions. Anything except the most blatant display probably won't register, especially if I'm upset or stressed. I've had several friends of the totally normal variety say to me that this sort of rule would probably have saved a few relationships if the girl was willing to actually follow it, and not have hidden expectations all over the place.

It does mean that the relationships I have are more hard work for everyone, because they have to verbalise what they're feeling all the time; I have enough friends to think that that is not so great a burden for most people. A few friends have thanked me for helping them understand themselves better, since they have to do that before I can understand them. On the other hand, I've lost potential friends since my upfront manner is something they interpret as 'attack', when all I'm trying to do is understand. Their silent response ('if i ignore it it won't have happened/it will get better/ go away') I interpret instead as rejection and stonewalling. So it's not all happy rainbows.

I suppose - relating to an asperger's person is different. It's a difference that suits some, and not others.
posted by ysabet at 12:11 AM on April 19, 2008 [4 favorites]