Building a living room media pc
March 13, 2008 10:46 PM Subscribe
I'm contemplating building a media PC for the living room. Here's my Newegg Wishlist. Thoughts?
Here's the plan for this PC:
Can I cut costs anywhere without sacrificing Linux compatibility or performance? Are there any gotchas I'm overlooking or anything else I'm missing? Does anyone have any experience with the case?
I was going to sit on this for a while and decide on my own, but Newegg just dropped the price of the processor by $30, and I'd like to get in on that asap.
Here's the plan for this PC:
- Ubuntu (with Elisa for a media front end)
- Video output (over DVI/HDMI) to my 1080i plasma.
- Wireless networking -- I don't want to run any more cables around my apartment.
- Should be reasonably quiet. I don't want a helicopter in my living room!
Can I cut costs anywhere without sacrificing Linux compatibility or performance? Are there any gotchas I'm overlooking or anything else I'm missing? Does anyone have any experience with the case?
I was going to sit on this for a while and decide on my own, but Newegg just dropped the price of the processor by $30, and I'd like to get in on that asap.
I'd go with a weaker 45W TDP CPU. You don't need that much power; the cooler CPU will mean reduced fan needs, which means less noise. Speaking of which, add a heatsink, maybe a Scythe Ninja mini.
So far as I can see, the 6150 is fine for 1080i or 720p.
Do you know anything about this case and its power supply? That has huge implications for noise. Getting, say, an Antec NSK3480 ($70 at New Egg till 3/17) (or an Antec NSK2480 on a Minuet) gets you a case known to have good airflow, and a power supply know to have reasonably high efficiency. Along with, say, a GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G HDMI motherboard for $99. $50 more here gets you a larger power supply (which you probably won't need), a better one, room for a bigger heatsink, and a boatload more features you might like some day -- instead of just 2 PCI slots, you'd have those 2, a PCI/Ex1 and a PCI/Ex16.
The disk drives are good.
I'd be inclined to put my wifi card in a PCI slot instead of a USB port, but it doesnt' really matter.
Is 54Bps going to be good enough to stream HD?
posted by Zed_Lopez at 12:09 AM on March 14, 2008
So far as I can see, the 6150 is fine for 1080i or 720p.
Do you know anything about this case and its power supply? That has huge implications for noise. Getting, say, an Antec NSK3480 ($70 at New Egg till 3/17) (or an Antec NSK2480 on a Minuet) gets you a case known to have good airflow, and a power supply know to have reasonably high efficiency. Along with, say, a GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G HDMI motherboard for $99. $50 more here gets you a larger power supply (which you probably won't need), a better one, room for a bigger heatsink, and a boatload more features you might like some day -- instead of just 2 PCI slots, you'd have those 2, a PCI/Ex1 and a PCI/Ex16.
The disk drives are good.
I'd be inclined to put my wifi card in a PCI slot instead of a USB port, but it doesnt' really matter.
Is 54Bps going to be good enough to stream HD?
posted by Zed_Lopez at 12:09 AM on March 14, 2008
Response by poster: I've looked at a Mini, but I'd like to keep this project under $500, and it's more "fun" this way. :) I was also planning on storing the media on the machine itself, since my wifi is currently pretty spotty (so no networked storage) -- that'll be the next upgrade.
And yeah -- I would love to have IR built in. My current plan is to just use a wireless mouse, but obviously a remote would be far superior.
I don't plan on doing any gaming on this machine.
Good information though -- thanks!
posted by natabat at 12:15 AM on March 14, 2008
And yeah -- I would love to have IR built in. My current plan is to just use a wireless mouse, but obviously a remote would be far superior.
I don't plan on doing any gaming on this machine.
Good information though -- thanks!
posted by natabat at 12:15 AM on March 14, 2008
natabat : totally understood - definitely the roll your own and Linux way is more fun/interesting. If you haven't already, do check out XBMC on Linux as a possibility for the front end. I'm checking out Elisa as we speak.
posted by ill3 at 12:29 AM on March 14, 2008
posted by ill3 at 12:29 AM on March 14, 2008
At the risk of monopolizing this thread, and at the risk of actually answering one of your questions - one potential "gotcha" I see, and that I have run into since HDMI has come onto the scene is sound. What are you planning to about sound, do you care about analog vs. AC3/DTS? If you have a receiver (I hope you do), then no problem - just run the S/PDIF to it and you are all set. If you don't have receiver, then you want to make sure your plasma will allow you to associate a discrete sound source with your video only HDMI/DVI/VGA connection - if your TV has a DVI-In most of them also allow you to run a RCA or 3.5mm analog sound source right in next to it. If your TV only has HDMI-In as a way to get a "DVI" signal into it, then that might be trickier. There are solutions that will allow you take a discrete sound source and "inject it" into your HDMI connection back to the TV but they cost almost as much as your entire project budget.
posted by ill3 at 12:44 AM on March 14, 2008
posted by ill3 at 12:44 AM on March 14, 2008
I'd stick with Windows XP, especially MCE 2005.
I've had poor experiences playing back 1080p MKV on Ubuntu and OS X. I haven't found a good alternative to CoreAVC.
BTW, If you have a Fry's around your area, you can get a Core 2 Duo E2200 w/ Motherboard for $90. I'm currently using one as my PVR (MCE 2005), and it runs great. It even has onboard video which works fine under MCE.
I'd stray away from AMD, they seem to run a lot hotter, and the Core 2 will save you a bit of power if its on 24/7.
posted by mphuie at 1:11 AM on March 14, 2008
I've had poor experiences playing back 1080p MKV on Ubuntu and OS X. I haven't found a good alternative to CoreAVC.
BTW, If you have a Fry's around your area, you can get a Core 2 Duo E2200 w/ Motherboard for $90. I'm currently using one as my PVR (MCE 2005), and it runs great. It even has onboard video which works fine under MCE.
I'd stray away from AMD, they seem to run a lot hotter, and the Core 2 will save you a bit of power if its on 24/7.
posted by mphuie at 1:11 AM on March 14, 2008
The Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H motherboard is THE ABSOLUTE BEST motherboard for video out. It will do 1080p video out from a Blu-Ray drive over the onboard HDMI port with only a Sempron 3200+ processor. I just ordered one myself actually for my new HTPC.
posted by ChazB at 1:47 AM on March 14, 2008
posted by ChazB at 1:47 AM on March 14, 2008
Don't forget backup if you're planning to store media on this PC. Not RAID 1, but either a drive in a removable tray or a drive in an external enclosure.
posted by pandanom at 6:43 AM on March 14, 2008
posted by pandanom at 6:43 AM on March 14, 2008
I did exactly what you're planning to do in December. My build list was:
AMD Athlon X2 BE-2350 2.1Ghz 1Mb AM2 Processor
Asus M2A-VM HDMI AM2 690G mATX Mainboard (HDMI/Audio/Lan)
w 2 GB Ram, 200Gb Hard Drive, DVD Drive
Antec NSK2400 Desktop Case w/380Watt PSU (replaced case fans with Scythes)
Total cost: $455, $520 with taxes in.
The Antec case is very nice for this application, but rather large. It's a full-size horizontal desktop. It looks great though. My biggest issue was/is fan noise associated with the cpu cooler. I've still not sorted this out to my satisfaction.
One thing I'm very happy with is my choice of keyboard. I've bought an Adesso WKB-3000UB wireless keyboard. It's RF, though you can get IR versions, but it's simple and really well thought out. Works great (ie volume controls, etc) with Ubuntu with now configuration. Cost about $65.
Otherwise, I'm quite happy. The system has no speed or capacity problems as a media player. I'm driving a 40" LCD panel via an analog VGA connector and seem to get full 1080p. I could do HDMI, but I've been too cheap to buy the cable. The system is running a pretty much base install of Ubuntu 7.10.
I'm still fiddling with Elisa. It doesn't seem terribly capable yet. I'm considering dumping it for Myth-TV, even though I won't use the PVR functions at all.
posted by bonehead at 6:51 AM on March 14, 2008
AMD Athlon X2 BE-2350 2.1Ghz 1Mb AM2 Processor
Asus M2A-VM HDMI AM2 690G mATX Mainboard (HDMI/Audio/Lan)
w 2 GB Ram, 200Gb Hard Drive, DVD Drive
Antec NSK2400 Desktop Case w/380Watt PSU (replaced case fans with Scythes)
Total cost: $455, $520 with taxes in.
The Antec case is very nice for this application, but rather large. It's a full-size horizontal desktop. It looks great though. My biggest issue was/is fan noise associated with the cpu cooler. I've still not sorted this out to my satisfaction.
One thing I'm very happy with is my choice of keyboard. I've bought an Adesso WKB-3000UB wireless keyboard. It's RF, though you can get IR versions, but it's simple and really well thought out. Works great (ie volume controls, etc) with Ubuntu with now configuration. Cost about $65.
Otherwise, I'm quite happy. The system has no speed or capacity problems as a media player. I'm driving a 40" LCD panel via an analog VGA connector and seem to get full 1080p. I could do HDMI, but I've been too cheap to buy the cable. The system is running a pretty much base install of Ubuntu 7.10.
I'm still fiddling with Elisa. It doesn't seem terribly capable yet. I'm considering dumping it for Myth-TV, even though I won't use the PVR functions at all.
posted by bonehead at 6:51 AM on March 14, 2008
Don't forget the remote. A lot of people complain about it, but I personally really like the ATI Remote Wonder Plus that I have. Another good alternate that I use on a different media center is the StreamZap. The original XBox remote works well, too.
posted by krisak at 7:03 AM on March 14, 2008
posted by krisak at 7:03 AM on March 14, 2008
bonehead, you forgot to mention the swearing. No media system is complete without swearing while installing it. It's like baptizing a ship with a bottle of champagne!
posted by LN at 7:05 AM on March 14, 2008
posted by LN at 7:05 AM on March 14, 2008
Excellent response by ill3. I've built a lot of machines in the past 4 or 5 years, and although it looks good on my resume, and it's something people love to talk about in interviews, aside from that it really isn't very economical or practical. Really, it's exactly like building an automobile from parts ordered off the web. Mac mini is an excellent alternative.
posted by thomas144 at 8:21 AM on March 14, 2008
posted by thomas144 at 8:21 AM on March 14, 2008
As counterpoint, ill3's list of cons is why I decided to self-build, as above. It's a trade-off between convenience/higher cost/reduced capability or more work/lower cost/more flexability. I chose the latter.
...and LN wasn't even around for the most colourful bits....
posted by bonehead at 8:57 AM on March 14, 2008
...and LN wasn't even around for the most colourful bits....
posted by bonehead at 8:57 AM on March 14, 2008
I have an earlier version of the Asus barebones as my (Windows) HTPC. Unless I'm doing something that is processor intensive, the fan noise is neglible. And the case looks darn cool.
This case worked well for me for several years, but I am starting to outgrow it. I have to run the optical audio (S/PDIF or TOSlink) out of the front of the case, ruining the smooth appliance look and I'm limited by the amount of space allotted for tuner cards, etc.
Get a remote control. It really makes life a little easier, and makes your project more of an appliance and less of a computer. For basic maintenance tasks, I also use a tiny IR keyboard with a built in trackball joystick mouse. For any real maintenance, I VNC in from another computer.
Now for some unsolicited advice: Unless you already have a TiVo or other DVR, you might be doing yourself a disservice by not putting in a tuner card. (Bonus: Most tuner cards include a remote, IR receiver, and IR blaster.) I really consider time-shifting the primary reason to have a computer for my TV. Myth and Sage are both adequate front ends that run on Linux.
If you're just looking to play back prerecorded HD and standard video, it can be done far more cheaply by an integrated device like the D-Link DSM-520 from files that reside on a NAS or some computer on your network. It's wireless and uses HDMI. You don't get geek cred, but you save $350 bones (which you can use to buy witty geek t-shirts {grin}).
posted by mattybonez at 10:21 AM on March 14, 2008
This case worked well for me for several years, but I am starting to outgrow it. I have to run the optical audio (S/PDIF or TOSlink) out of the front of the case, ruining the smooth appliance look and I'm limited by the amount of space allotted for tuner cards, etc.
Get a remote control. It really makes life a little easier, and makes your project more of an appliance and less of a computer. For basic maintenance tasks, I also use a tiny IR keyboard with a built in trackball joystick mouse. For any real maintenance, I VNC in from another computer.
Now for some unsolicited advice: Unless you already have a TiVo or other DVR, you might be doing yourself a disservice by not putting in a tuner card. (Bonus: Most tuner cards include a remote, IR receiver, and IR blaster.) I really consider time-shifting the primary reason to have a computer for my TV. Myth and Sage are both adequate front ends that run on Linux.
If you're just looking to play back prerecorded HD and standard video, it can be done far more cheaply by an integrated device like the D-Link DSM-520 from files that reside on a NAS or some computer on your network. It's wireless and uses HDMI. You don't get geek cred, but you save $350 bones (which you can use to buy witty geek t-shirts {grin}).
posted by mattybonez at 10:21 AM on March 14, 2008
Your hardware looks good, but let me make a suggestion. I don't know how much noise the Asus case you've selected makes, but if noise worries you, take a look at Shuttle systems. I bought one of these a couple years ago, and the damn thing is silent. The size limits you quite a bit on peripheral cards and such, and it has its own motherboard, so this might not be for you, but I've had good luck with mine.
I second the recommendation for a remote; it makes life on the couch easier.
posted by deadcowdan at 10:46 AM on March 14, 2008
I second the recommendation for a remote; it makes life on the couch easier.
posted by deadcowdan at 10:46 AM on March 14, 2008
You know I'm just teasing you, bonehead. ;) But I'm an imaginative person; I can fill in the blanks when necessary.
posted by LN at 11:03 AM on March 14, 2008
posted by LN at 11:03 AM on March 14, 2008
The Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H motherboard is THE ABSOLUTE BEST motherboard for video out
I beg to differ. (HDMI, R-G-B component-out, VGA and DVI). It also supports TOSLink onboard. And it's a hell of a lot smaller. This is the board my new media center is built around. When it's finished, it should fit in a shoebox and be practically silent.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 3:40 PM on March 14, 2008
I beg to differ. (HDMI, R-G-B component-out, VGA and DVI). It also supports TOSLink onboard. And it's a hell of a lot smaller. This is the board my new media center is built around. When it's finished, it should fit in a shoebox and be practically silent.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 3:40 PM on March 14, 2008
Response by poster: Perhaps my information is out of date, but aren't the ATI Linux drivers pretty bad? I'd rather stick with an nVidia based board. All the boards mentioned in the thread are ATI based...
I was eyeing this case/barebones in particular because of this review, in which he talks about how easy the build and setup were.
I've got the DVR from the cable company, so no need for tuners. I have seen the D-Link (and others like it), but my wifi is spotty and I'd like something I have a little more control over. I've been using the Phillips DVD players with DIVX support for years, and I'm finally starting to get tired of the limitations.
Ya'll have convinced me to get a remote control. Can anyone recommend one that is known to work with Linux? That's something I have absolutely no experience with...
I've also knocked the processor down to a single-core 45W Athlon 64. The reviews have good things to say about the included fan and heatsink.
Keep it coming!
posted by natabat at 4:54 PM on March 14, 2008
I was eyeing this case/barebones in particular because of this review, in which he talks about how easy the build and setup were.
I've got the DVR from the cable company, so no need for tuners. I have seen the D-Link (and others like it), but my wifi is spotty and I'd like something I have a little more control over. I've been using the Phillips DVD players with DIVX support for years, and I'm finally starting to get tired of the limitations.
Ya'll have convinced me to get a remote control. Can anyone recommend one that is known to work with Linux? That's something I have absolutely no experience with...
I've also knocked the processor down to a single-core 45W Athlon 64. The reviews have good things to say about the included fan and heatsink.
Keep it coming!
posted by natabat at 4:54 PM on March 14, 2008
I've also knocked the processor down to a single-core 45W Athlon 64.
I dunno... Personally, I don't feel that the 45W chips are cut-out for compressed high-def content. They'll probably work for 90% of what you might find on the internet. Personally, I want to push my TV to the limit of its capabilities, which means I need a processor that can churn the shit out. Of course, start playing around in HD and then you've got to worry about network bandwidth within your home. At least, if you're wireless you do.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 3:29 PM on March 20, 2008
I dunno... Personally, I don't feel that the 45W chips are cut-out for compressed high-def content. They'll probably work for 90% of what you might find on the internet. Personally, I want to push my TV to the limit of its capabilities, which means I need a processor that can churn the shit out. Of course, start playing around in HD and then you've got to worry about network bandwidth within your home. At least, if you're wireless you do.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 3:29 PM on March 20, 2008
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Pros:
- Small, it's about the smallest form factor pc you can buy that has a drive. It's about the size of an old school external cd rom drive.
- Nice looking, the brushed aluminum look looks nice in just about any environment
- Quiet, like all/most Apple product it's whisper quiet - I sit about 6 feet from the one in my bedroom and I have never heard it - not even when the TV is off.
- You can run just about any OS on it : Windows, Linux (Unbuntu) or OS X on it.
- You can run XBMC (Xbox Media Center - a piece of software many/most people think is the best media center ever created) for Linux or XBMC for OS X on it (disclaimer I am a contributor to the XBMC on OSX project)
- It has built in Gigabit networking, 802.11g WLAN, Bluetooth 2.0, and most importantly an IR port - no messing around with a USB dongles or cards to get these features. I see that you have at least 2 things hanging off USB in your list, and still am not sure how you are planning to control it - with a remote or IR. Do not underestimate how great it is to have an IR port and a remote built-in from the get go, this was always a hassle on my previous media center projects. The bluetooth is also being used as a way to control media center apps remotely (either via the PS3 Bluetooth remote, or even the iPhone).
- It has S/PDIF optical 5.1 out (and it comes out the back rather than the front which seems to be a complaint about the ASUS)
- It will play 1080p content (at least using the XBMC on OS X software, see here)
- Excellent build quality.
Cons:
- The entry level model is $600 which is 33% more than what you have priced, and it has weaker specs across the board than what you have put together. Also, I would recommend getting the $800 model anyway, which makes the price difference even more startling.
- It has onboard graphics, and it's an Intel GMA 950 - which is pretty anemic compared to most any other graphics card (however, this typically doesn't matter with media center apps as almost all the work happens in the CPU not the GPU). Again not really an issue unless you plan to do FPS gaming on it.
- Harder to expand/tweak.
- Due to a smaller drive, it's not as good as a solution if you plan to use the same machine to hold all your media as well - you will need to point it to a server or hang an external drive off of it.
If you were to go this route, I would also highly recommend at least giving OS X + XBMC a chance before going the Linux route. I am a long time Linux user and fan, but it really comes down to do you want to build this thing and run it as a hobby, or do you want to get it up and running in 10 minutes.
posted by ill3 at 11:54 PM on March 13, 2008 [4 favorites]