Hopefully a different effect than when he played for that kindergarten class.

February 27, 2008 9:50 AM

If you were an ESL student, which Bob Dylan song would you most enjoy a lesson on?

I'm looking for some music to use for lyrical/cultural analysis with a group of ESL students. They're bright kids who have been studying English for about five years, some with tutors, and should be able to understand most of the words used in the music. I'm also trying to teach them about American culture and throw some critical thinking into the mix, so I'm hoping to find something interesting, and culturally significant, that would make them think.

Right now I'm looking at covering Dylan, Bob Marley and something more current (possibly Aesop Rock's "No Regrets", if only to show that there is rap beyond 50 Cent). I would like to throw some female vocalists into the mix as well, but am abysmally unfamiliar with female vocalists of cultural significance that have that "sound of a generation" kind of thing that Dylan has. (Joplin? Beyond that ...) Any suggestions in that vein as well would also be appreciated.

posted by the luke parker fiasco to media & arts (33 comments total)

Like a Rolling Stone seems like the obvious choice. I'd go with that one.
posted by ludwig_van at 9:55 AM on February 27

My current favorite Dylan tune is Buckets of Rain.
posted by wsg at 10:00 AM on February 27

Desolation Row. It has lots of references to Shakespeare, the Bible, and folklore characters. The sources of the imagery in that song might make for some good discussion and help make connections.
posted by marxchivist at 10:00 AM on February 27

Hey Mr. Tambourine Man, because Dangerous Minds already did the work for you.
posted by Adam_S at 10:09 AM on February 27 [1 favorite]

A few amazing female songwriters (with suggested songs, but take some time to listen to their songlists and find what grips you ... something is sure to):

Natalie Merchant/10,000 Maniacs ("Hey Jack Kerouac" or "What's the Matter Here?"),

Suzanne Vega ( "The Queen and the Soldier" or "Tired of Sleeping")

Pink (esp. see "Dear Mr. President"),

Indigo Girls ("Hammer and a Nail" or "Shame on You")
posted by headnsouth at 10:17 AM on February 27

Joni Mitchell - Big Yellow Taxi

Melissa Etheridge - I Run for Life

Tracy Chapman - Fast Car

Joan Baez - We Want Our Freedom Now/We Will Overcome

Dixie Chicks - Goodbye, Earl
posted by headspace at 10:32 AM on February 27

Tangled Up in Blue
posted by Roach at 10:35 AM on February 27

Patti Smith - Because the Night

Dylans Masters of war is as always where it's at.
posted by SurrenderMonkey at 10:38 AM on February 27 [1 favorite]

Oh, and Dixie Chicks' Not Ready to Make Nice has a well-documented story behind it that could definitely segue into conversations about American culture and critical thinking.
posted by headspace at 10:40 AM on February 27

It's ESL so that means no Dylanesque mumblings, the words have got to be slow, clear and concise. Also the song has to be familiar and popular enough that the students may have heard it or heard of it. For those reasons I say the answer, my friend, is Blowin' in the Wind.
posted by Pollomacho at 10:45 AM on February 27

You mean to listen to?

Dylan seems a terrible choice given how mushy, indistinct, and downright odd his diction can be. I've spoken English all my life and I find him really difficult to understand. Or, as he might say, ahhh fahhm reeeeeee deeecuh tuhhhhstaa. He has many fine qualities as a songwriter and singer, but intelligibility is not among them.

Unless decoding the speech of people with terrible diction relative to standard English is the point, I guess. Or part of the point.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:47 AM on February 27

things have changed or the hurricane by dylan

ella fitzgerald maybe?
posted by misanthropicsarah at 10:55 AM on February 27

Beatles - Yellow Submarine, Ob La Di Ob La Da - words are pretty intelligible, and the songs well-known.
posted by that possible maker of pork sausages at 11:00 AM on February 27

'Desolation Row,' I might point out, is fourteen minutes long. And it's one of the more lyrically-abstruse Dylan songs. During the same time that he went from acoustic to electric, Dylan's lyrics became a lot more, uh, metaphorical. If it was me, I'd be looking for a simple, overarching metaphor, and something that can easily be made relevant to current events. My vote is for 'With God On Our Side.'

(Also, the Dylan website has great lyric pages, and a pretty good search.)

And, just as a bonus, here are my Ace Rock and Bob Marley suggestions: '9-5ers Anthem,' 'Burning and Looting.'
posted by box at 11:01 AM on February 27

Points taken re: Dylan's enunciation. They will also have access to the written lyrics, though, as no matter how slowly or clearly something is enunciated I'm not sure they're familiar enough with spoken English to "get it" just by listening. So the poet/songwriter/cultural icon thing wins out, despite the sometime unintelligibility. Heck, I'm also hitting Aesop Rock, whom I find to be difficult to understand at times thanks to his speed, and I'm a native speaker.
posted by the luke parker fiasco at 11:04 AM on February 27

As someone once said to my sister, Bob Dylan sounds like a swarm of bees. Bad choice for teaching English. (Yes, I know that Bob Dylan is cool.)
posted by 1 at 11:08 AM on February 27

I used to teach ESL to adults, and currently work as a mod at an ESL message board. Students are anxious to understand the lyrics to popular songs, but it's never easy to answer their questions about the lyrics. For example, just the other day one student asked "what does 'I've got my spine, I've got my orange crush' mean?" Even native speakers have trouble interpreting lyrics. If you're looking for a song just to teach them pronunciation, I'd go for something clear and intelligble. I'm a huge Patti Smith fan, but even I never could understand all the words to "Because the Night" before I finally saw the printed lyrics. The Three Dog Night song "Black and White" was originally written by an ESL teacher for his students, so perhaps that's a place to start. Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start the Fire" races by pretty quickly, but it has a lot of cultural references that would provide grist for a class discussion, as would Don McLean's "American Pie."
posted by Oriole Adams at 11:11 AM on February 27

I never get the complaints about Bob Dylan's enunciation. He did the Mr. Mumbles thing at times in his career but I'd say if you are having trouble understanding anything up to, say, the basement tapes, you might want to get your ears exacmined. Way better than Robert Plant, for instance.
posted by sully75 at 11:13 AM on February 27

I'd make them suffer a bit with the lyrics as a dictee, first, though? I wonder if songs that tell a story would also be a useful hook for the class -- maybe Neil Young Powderfinger (the Cowboy Junkies do a nice version which covers the female angle, or the Cowboy Junkies' "Sun comes up, its Tuesday morning..." Heck, give them Sympathy for the Devil.

Redemption Song would be a good Marley choice but also very hard for ESL to understand -- I realize you clarified that isn't such a concern.

Seconding Masters of War and With God on Our Side for the Dylan. In a similar vein, Billy Bragg/Wilco 'The Unwelcome Guest' might be a cool choice.

Billie Holliday - Strange Fruit
Joni Mitchell - River, CLouds, Both Sides Now
Joan Baez - Diamonds and Rust.
posted by Rumple at 11:19 AM on February 27

I agree with sully75. I'm from the non-english speaking world and have no problems with Dylans enunciation. Either you understand English or you don't. If your students understand English they'll fill in the blanks, like we all do when we miss a word or two.
posted by SurrenderMonkey at 11:49 AM on February 27

Seconding Billie Holiday's "Strange Fruit." I think that would be perfect.

I like "I Shall Be Released" for a Dylan song that is beautiful, intelligible and politically resonant. It won't provide quite the same linguistic challenge as something like "Desolation Row," though.

Alternately, if you want to capture a cultural moment, why not "The Times They are A-Changin"? Lots of good stuff in there.
posted by Mender at 12:01 PM on February 27

I'd recommend "Pastures of Plenty" -- it's Woody Guthrie, but Bob Dylan covered it. Besides, it's a great segue to talk about The Grapes of Wrath, which (it seems from my ESL teaching experience) describes situations and experiences common to many immigrants.
posted by parilous at 12:16 PM on February 27

I would recommend "With God On Our Side" - I remember meeting some guys from Eastern Europe in 1975 in Paris who were singing this, in English, but much too fast. I also agree with the Masters of War suggestion.
posted by thomas144 at 12:44 PM on February 27

Townes van Zandt: Waitin' Around to Die or Pancho and Lefty or really any van Zandt would be good from the poetic imagery in plain language idiom.

Also some of the funny John Prine songs would be good options.

I am guessing it can't be too obscure or maybe too genre-y (e.g., country) though?
posted by Rumple at 1:18 PM on February 27

I'd go with "Boots Of Spanish Leather," which is easy to understand on some level and recognizable as part of the folk tradition, lyrically speaking. Its lyrics about being away from one's love and sometimes settling for second best would have resonance with most people who've left their native lands.
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 1:49 PM on February 27

Why not use songs by The Band? Lots of storytelling and vivid imagery, plus you get a real feel for American "roots." (Bonus: from Canadians)

Dylan's Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll is a nice song for the "critical thinking" piece of what you're doing, as is Masters of War and many others from Dylan's early albums. Nthing those wondering about all the issues with intelligibility -- you're thinking of later period Dylan. Early Dylan is fine -- if you're in the message-song business, you E-NUN-CI-ATE.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 1:55 PM on February 27

"The Times They Are A'Changin"

Such an culturally relevant message, especially during a presidential election!
posted by tk at 2:26 PM on February 27

ESL Teacher here -- I once made up a lesson plan for All I Really Want To Do but I've never used it. If I was to do another, I'd go for Blowin' in the Wind but in both cases I'm a bit leary of all his dropped "g"s and "ain't"s in a class of beginners.
posted by Rash at 2:32 PM on February 27

I think "Subterranean Homesick Blues" would be fun--you could show the video with him tossing the cue cards--and Ginsburg in the background...
posted by wafaa at 2:34 PM on February 27

For Dylan, maybe "Lily, Rosemary, and the Jack of Hearts" would be good. He's relatively intelligible, and the song has a story to it, which might make it easier or more interesting to follow.
posted by dilettante at 3:46 PM on February 27

For teaching American culture, how about Dylan's Hurricane
posted by clearly at 6:08 PM on February 27

I like Bob Dylan's Let Me Die in My Footsteps, Red Hot Chili Pepper's Under the Bridge, and any song from Green Day's American Idiot album.

Also good: Changes (I like Bruce Hornsby's version, but you might also like Tupac's version.)

For a little older (but tragic) cultural message, check out Billie Holiday's Strange Fruit.

And don't forget Will.I.Am's beautiful rendition of Yes We Can.
posted by mynameismandab at 8:12 PM on February 27

I vote for Maggie's Farm. I always thought it was kind of off the wall until I noticed it was about working in general.

And, yes, I think it is an excellent idea to turn them on to Aes Rock :)
posted by crinklebat at 8:20 PM on February 27