What's hot with programming languages?
February 24, 2008 12:40 PM Subscribe
What programming suites are considered hot these days for for coding standalone Windows applications?
I'm very interested in a Win32/Win64 development package that's easy to learn, robust, generates fast code, has lots of third-party support, and doesn't cost a wheelbarrow full of money.
I have been in the Delphi camp since the 1990s and am considering going down the Turbo Pascal 2006 road, but not knowing what else is out there I don't know if this is a dead end. I know there's MS Visual Studio and .NET but this whole package seems extraordinarily complicated... plus I'm not interested in having to force my users to install stuff like .NET to run some shareware.
What alternatives are there?
I'm very interested in a Win32/Win64 development package that's easy to learn, robust, generates fast code, has lots of third-party support, and doesn't cost a wheelbarrow full of money.
I have been in the Delphi camp since the 1990s and am considering going down the Turbo Pascal 2006 road, but not knowing what else is out there I don't know if this is a dead end. I know there's MS Visual Studio and .NET but this whole package seems extraordinarily complicated... plus I'm not interested in having to force my users to install stuff like .NET to run some shareware.
What alternatives are there?
While I like AIR (which embeds Webkit, I think), the best platform for basic Windows apps is in my opinion .NET. I wouldn't worry too much about people having to download the .NET Framework, since many people already have, and it's not a big deal.
You don't have to use Visual Studio to build .NET apps, either. You might look at SharpDevelop, which is a free C#/VB.NET IDE.
posted by me & my monkey at 1:30 PM on February 24, 2008
You don't have to use Visual Studio to build .NET apps, either. You might look at SharpDevelop, which is a free C#/VB.NET IDE.
posted by me & my monkey at 1:30 PM on February 24, 2008
What are you looking to build? With AJAX and things like AIR, lots more can be done through web applications or web-app hybrids (as is the case with AIR/Flex.)
posted by disillusioned at 2:18 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by disillusioned at 2:18 PM on February 24, 2008
Might try looking at WPF. It's xml for describing the UI. From the little I've read, it looks pretty interesting. Also C# in the .net world.
posted by trinity8-director at 3:20 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by trinity8-director at 3:20 PM on February 24, 2008
Java? (depending on your definition of standalone)
posted by lunchbox at 6:47 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by lunchbox at 6:47 PM on February 24, 2008
I think the big choices are dot net or native C++. Personally I prefer C++ but I'd be hard pressed to choose it for most apps. You should play with WPF at least. It's not the fastest gun in the west but it's got a lot of cool features. My favorite app written in it is the New York Times reader which I'd recommend checking out. Obviously there's a lot of document-centric stuff in WPF.
So, really, what are you looking to write? It's hard to say without knowing that. If you want to do something document centric you can't beat WPF. It's not just the environment, it has fantastic typography and layout algorithms. If you really want "fast code" then you should write C++. Maybe with MFC? I've recently learned ATL & it's bizarrely complicated but as an old-school C/C++ junkie I think it's pretty neat stuff.
posted by Wood at 7:57 PM on February 24, 2008
So, really, what are you looking to write? It's hard to say without knowing that. If you want to do something document centric you can't beat WPF. It's not just the environment, it has fantastic typography and layout algorithms. If you really want "fast code" then you should write C++. Maybe with MFC? I've recently learned ATL & it's bizarrely complicated but as an old-school C/C++ junkie I think it's pretty neat stuff.
posted by Wood at 7:57 PM on February 24, 2008
.Net can be intimidating at first. It's friggin huge and powerful. I came from the old VB world. The stuff I can now do in .Net would have been unthinkable in old VB.
At first, I was overwhelmed by the size of the framework. There's so much stuff in there. How do you find what you need? .Net is so wide-spread that you can find examples of anything you want to do with just a quick Google. Microsoft's own help is decent. But the internet is packed with good practical info.
As long as you're not building with the newest version (3.5), the runtime is most likely already on the user's machine.
Once you get familiar with .Net, you'll be in awe of the beauty and power of the thing. Everything is neatly organized. Nothing was done half-ass like Microsoft has been known for in the past.
posted by muzzlecough at 8:17 PM on February 24, 2008
At first, I was overwhelmed by the size of the framework. There's so much stuff in there. How do you find what you need? .Net is so wide-spread that you can find examples of anything you want to do with just a quick Google. Microsoft's own help is decent. But the internet is packed with good practical info.
As long as you're not building with the newest version (3.5), the runtime is most likely already on the user's machine.
Once you get familiar with .Net, you'll be in awe of the beauty and power of the thing. Everything is neatly organized. Nothing was done half-ass like Microsoft has been known for in the past.
posted by muzzlecough at 8:17 PM on February 24, 2008
The hot thing now really is .NET. I think people usually have it on their computers by now, but I guess some may not. If you like Delphi, .NET is more along the same lines of what you've done than something like C++.
I've found .NET fairly easy to get into as someone who started doing GUI stuff with Visual Basic 5 or 6. It has similar types of conventions for creating forms and defining actions for them. I've found that .NET also scales really well. I've created very simple applications using it and very complex ones, and they've all performed quite well and been a pleasure to develop.
I also want to point out that there is no cost at all for getting into developing .NET applications. Microsoft has made available the Visual Studio .NET Express Editions which are free, fully-featured IDEs based on the professional editions. They're sometimes described as limited, but I've been developing on .NET for about 4 years now, and have only ever needed the Professional edition a few times when I was doing Crystal Reports.
I hate to sound like such a shill, but I honestly just really like working with .NET (I've also worked extensively with Win32, MFC (if you go the C++ route, I'd recommend this as it's a lot of fun), Java (I hate this), PHP (primary language, it's a love\hate thing, but mostly I like it), and VB (don't like the syntax) to name a few).
By the way, definitely look into both VB.NET and C#, both of which make use of the .NET framework and are actually very similar, except for the syntax. VB.NET might seem more familiar to you than C#.
posted by !Jim at 10:21 PM on February 24, 2008
I've found .NET fairly easy to get into as someone who started doing GUI stuff with Visual Basic 5 or 6. It has similar types of conventions for creating forms and defining actions for them. I've found that .NET also scales really well. I've created very simple applications using it and very complex ones, and they've all performed quite well and been a pleasure to develop.
I also want to point out that there is no cost at all for getting into developing .NET applications. Microsoft has made available the Visual Studio .NET Express Editions which are free, fully-featured IDEs based on the professional editions. They're sometimes described as limited, but I've been developing on .NET for about 4 years now, and have only ever needed the Professional edition a few times when I was doing Crystal Reports.
I hate to sound like such a shill, but I honestly just really like working with .NET (I've also worked extensively with Win32, MFC (if you go the C++ route, I'd recommend this as it's a lot of fun), Java (I hate this), PHP (primary language, it's a love\hate thing, but mostly I like it), and VB (don't like the syntax) to name a few).
By the way, definitely look into both VB.NET and C#, both of which make use of the .NET framework and are actually very similar, except for the syntax. VB.NET might seem more familiar to you than C#.
posted by !Jim at 10:21 PM on February 24, 2008
Well - .NET w/without Visual Studio, Python, Java - all will require some form of runtime overhead. if you want the best support for Windows-platforms, the Visual Studio.NET is the way to go.
If you want to be "lean/close-to-the-metal", then C/C++ - but for you, why not FreePascal/Lazarus?
Delphi-compatible object pascal syntax. Runs/compiles under Win32/Win64, plus - if you are careful you can get your code over to MacOS, Linux, etc...
posted by jkaczor at 9:46 AM on February 25, 2008
If you want to be "lean/close-to-the-metal", then C/C++ - but for you, why not FreePascal/Lazarus?
Delphi-compatible object pascal syntax. Runs/compiles under Win32/Win64, plus - if you are careful you can get your code over to MacOS, Linux, etc...
posted by jkaczor at 9:46 AM on February 25, 2008
Also note that the install for AIR + Flash is about comparable to the size of the .NET install. And .NET is already pushed pretty heavily to windows users via Windows Update.
Personally, I really really like C# + WPF for application development on windows. It is a much more robust platform than Flash + Flex2 or *shudder* HTML + AJAX (which I have also devved for).
posted by Riemann at 11:19 AM on February 25, 2008
Personally, I really really like C# + WPF for application development on windows. It is a much more robust platform than Flash + Flex2 or *shudder* HTML + AJAX (which I have also devved for).
posted by Riemann at 11:19 AM on February 25, 2008
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posted by drjimmy11 at 1:10 PM on February 24, 2008