How best to use my limited power in dealing with a family conflict

December 2, 2007 9:34 PM

Crazy sister-in-law withholding grandchildren and making my parents miserable. Brother being a wuss about it. What can I do?

My sister-in-law (P) always seemed a bit bossy and self-centered, but my brother loved her and she got along well enough with the family, so it was all good, everyone seemed happy. Things seemed to be fine after kid #1, but after kid #2 things seem to have gone downhill. Some “incident” happened two years ago where P thought she heard my mom make a disparaging comment about her at a birthday party (I don’t trust anyone’s memory completely of what was said, but suffice it to say there was at least some kind of misunderstanding, there must have been). P let this simmer for several months before exploding at my mom over the phone until P had her in tears and my father said he grabbed the phone and hung it up (the first time in his life he ever hung up on someone).

I learned about the situation a year ago from my parents, unbeknownst to my brother and P, and helped my mom write a letter saying that she can’t imagine she would say such a thing, but if she did then she was sorry. I put a lot of time into it and my brother said it was the best thing that she could have possibly written to help the situation (he still doesn’t know I wrote it). But it seemed to have no effect.

Maybe it's just too much time locked in a huge house in suburbia, maybe it's something else. I don't know. But P seems to have created a family drama in her mind that she insists must be played out, mostly through icy silence. Just to give you an example of the kind of things that happen. My brother and P went on vacation, they took kid #2 with them and left kid #1 with P’s parents (who live right down the road from my parents) and let my parents have the honour of dogsitting. Her parents did not call my parents once over the course of the week to come over and see their grandchild. I have no idea what falsehoods P has spread around about my parents to them. And my mom is even scared that people around their small town will start to hear bad things about her through them.

My parents are starting to mention the situation less and less. I guess they’ve given up on fixing the situation and are just trying to deal with it. But when they know that my brother and sister-and-law are going to be in town with the kids, they can’t help but get excited and hope that they stop by for more than a couple of hours. It breaks my heart and it makes me rage against this woman who seems to get off on having her hand on the lever that controls my parents’ happiness.

My brother is in a stressful position. He is high up at a firm that requires a lot of hours of work, he tries to see his kids (who are amazing, btw) as much as he can, and I have no idea what his relationship is like with his wife. But considering that he told my mom that he is as fed up with the situation as my parents, then it must be less than ideal. His strategy seems to be to avoid as much conflict as possible, which results in his wife usually getting her way, and him calling my parents less and less. I imagine part of the reason for that is my mom isn't able to help but drop hints about when the next time is that she’s going to see her grandchildren, and that makes him feel guilty.

I feel like I need to talk to my brother about this. We’re not super close, but we’ve leveled with each other in the past, and I just want to write a blunt email telling him that I understand his position, but he has to make more of an effort to assert himself, because our parents are suffering needlessly over this. But I just didn’t know what to say. So I turned here to get some ideas. So….any ideas? I feel a responsibility to do something...

posted by anonymous to human relations (22 answers total)

I would suggest for step one that you talk to your brother, one-on-one and in person. Email tends to make these situations worse, as the tone gets misunderstood and stuff gets forwarded around, CC'd, BCC'd, etc.

Step two might be to begin the conversation with the words, "What can we do to make this stop? It's killing our parents."

Let him emote, yell, sulk, whatever. Lord knows what he is living with at home, and he may need to blow off some steam at first.

Good luck.
posted by 4ster at 9:50 PM on December 2, 2007

But I just didn’t know what to say.

Call your brother. Better yet, see him in person if you can.

Tell him what you just told us. In other words:

Brother, you have to make more of an effort to assert yourself, because our parents are suffering needlessly over this. I know you work long and hard, but you can't let your personal guilt and resulting inaction kill the relationship your kids have with their grandparents.
posted by cmgonzalez at 10:00 PM on December 2, 2007

This is a one of those tough situations where you and people you love are negatively affected by something that you don't have any control over. I know it seems like you should be doing something to save the day and make everyone happy, but the bottom line is that this is up to your brother and sister-in-law to fix, and there's not really much you can do to make them fix it.

With that said, definitely let your brother know how you and your parents feel about what is happening. I agree with 4ster that this would be better in person or at least over the phone, because this is a delicate matter and an email might be misinterpreted.

You've already heard that your brother is fed up about it, so it sounds like he already knows how much of a problem this is for your family. The best thing you can do is be non-confrontational about it and tell him that you will be there to lend him support for whatever he decides to do.
posted by burnmp3s at 10:03 PM on December 2, 2007

Crazy sister-in-law withholding grandchildren and making my parents miserable. Brother being a wuss about it.

I've been in this exact same position. The temptation to get involved is tremendous.

What can I do?

Nothing.

At least there's nothing you can do to resolve the situation. You can be emotionally supportive of your brother and your parents, and you can be a good uncle. But that's about it.

Yeah it sucks, but there are no magic words you can say that are going to change anyone's mind.

Sorry.
posted by tkolar at 11:24 PM on December 2, 2007

Stay out of it.

As hard as that is this is really between your parents, your brother and his wife.

It's really your brother's bag to step forward, recognize the hurt for what it is and address the issue. You getting involved will only add to the complexity of the situation and god forbid the crazy sister-in-law find out about your meddling...
posted by wfrgms at 11:31 PM on December 2, 2007 [2 favorites]

My sister-in-law (P) always seemed a bit bossy and self-centered
Maybe it's just too much time locked in a huge house in suburbia, maybe it's something else

You seem to have a definite opinion of her, maybe she knows this?

a letter saying that she can’t imagine she would say such a thing, but if she did then she was sorry. I put a lot of time into it and my brother said it was the best thing that she could have possibly written to help the situation (he still doesn’t know I wrote it).

Maybe she can pick up signs of this in the letter? Now there's a person manipulating her mother in law against her.

let my parents have the honour of dogsitting.

Well, dogs are members of the family too, remember it might have been for the dog's need and not as an insult.

Her parents did not call my parents once over the course of the week to come over and see their grandchild.

This seems like a (legitimate) problem with her parents.

I have no idea what falsehoods P has spread around about my parents to them.

Correct.

And my mom is even scared that people around their small town will start to hear bad things about her through them.

Is there any evidence of this?

But when they know that my brother and sister-and-law are going to be in town with the kids, they can’t help but get excited and hope that they stop by for more than a couple of hours.

If she's uncomfortable around your parents it may be very difficult for her to do more than a couple of hours.

I have no idea what his relationship is like with his wife.

Correct.

I imagine part of the reason for that is my mom isn't able to help but drop hints about when the next time is that she’s going to see her grandchildren, and that makes him feel guilty.

I'm concerned that a lot of this is speculation. If you have evidence, bring it forward - it may help find an answer. If not, finding evidence may be a good pointer towards a solution.

Good luck.
posted by By The Grace of God at 1:10 AM on December 3, 2007

I dunno, it's kind of begging the question to lead off your post with the label "crazy". Plus the word is useless as far as dealing with the situation pragmatically. Unless, of course, she's clinically insane. It also strikes me that one comment at a party couldn't be responsible for all this, unless there were something already there to resonate with it. But I'm just a guy speculating on the internet.
posted by Rich Smorgasbord at 1:21 AM on December 3, 2007

Yeah, we can all really only speculate here, but that detail about your parents living down the road from her parents made me wonder if they talk to each other, and if your parents called during the week the grandkids were over to see if they could visit. Maybe they share their daughter's feelings toward your mom, but if they're literally a few doors away your mom could try reaching out to them in an effort to find out more about what's upsetting their daughter and how they can reconcile.
posted by PY at 1:38 AM on December 3, 2007

I don't doubt that your intentions here - wanting to ease the hurt your parents are feeling over the loss of their relationship with their son and grandchildren - are genuine, however, the way this post is written indicates such bias in one direction that I'm not sure you are the ideal person to broker a peace between the two sides.

In one post, you've called your sister-in-law crazy, self-centered and bossy, completely glossed over whatever "incident" caused her to want to cease all relations with your parents, yet after ignoring that important detail you still go ahead and rip on her for letting her anger over that incident "simmer" before exploding at your mom. *DID* your mom say something that was truly hurtful towards your sister-in-law? Since we aren't being told what the incident was that caused the SIL to react this way, it is almost impossible to take a side here. I can't imagine wanting to share my children with someone who was brazenly hateful towards me. Or maybe your SIL is totally overreacting to a benign incident. But since she is so clearly being portrayed as the antagonist in this post we aren't even being given the luxury of understanding her viewpoint.

Again, I have no doubt your motivation here is simply to help ease a situation that is causing pain to people you love and care about deeply. But your bias towards one side in this feud makes you the wrong person to try to play mediator.
posted by The Gooch at 3:35 AM on December 3, 2007 [4 favorites]

he tries to see his kids (who are amazing, btw)

So, this "crazy" woman who, it appears, is raising the kids pretty much on her own is still managing to do an amazing job?

I think that there's more to the story here. It sounds to me like there was originally a problem with basic "chemistry" between your family and P. Perhaps, early on, she felt like an outsider. Perhaps all of you inadvertently made her feel like an outsider. This situation probably escalated as time went on, and when the kids came along, increased family time together meant more pressure on the relationship.

It didn't help that your mother made her feel even more isolated when she made that comment. The fact that you all rallied to Mom's side rather than P's was not a good idea. She doesn't want to keep putting herself in that position because she hates to think that her kids will see the family making her an outsider. Who wants to look like the family outcast in front of her kids? Your brother is "staying out" of this situation because it's his wife, and it's his job to be loyal and supportive to the woman who's doing an "amazing" job with his children while he toils away at work.

This is what I think needs to be done if this situation is to resolve itself well: your Mom needs t sit down and have coffee with P, tell her that she's a loved and valued member of her family, and vow to go forward with an open heart. Then, at the next family gathering, you all need to be open, warm, and welcoming to this woman. No one wants to feel left out.
posted by Flakypastry at 3:39 AM on December 3, 2007 [9 favorites]

The real problem is actually not with P but your brother. This is a way for P to get HIS attention, not some family drama. She is forcing his hand but, so far, he is not reacting. There is obviously a problem with his marriage and, frankly, you and your parents should make it clear that his lack of action so far is causing all of you and his kids considerable hurt. If you are running around doing his dirty work then no wonder he is staying out of it. And please don't write any letters or emails, they always end up with a passive-aggressive undertone in situations like these. Your brother needs to sort this out.
posted by gatchaman at 4:29 AM on December 3, 2007

As the Gooch noted:

you still go ahead and rip on her for letting her anger over that incident "simmer"

Yes, we can't help but notice the red herrings you've sprinkled into your post. Whether or not she let it simmer is just an adjunct to the main thing. And what the hell does it have to do with anything that you didn't get credit for writing that letter? It can't help but make one suspicious that her real offenses, so vaguely outlined here, are similarly trumped-up. I'm not slamming my gavel as I say that; just reporting one way it can appear to us.
posted by Rich Smorgasbord at 4:51 AM on December 3, 2007

I think Flakypastry is on the right lines. There's no way of working around the fact that your sister-in-law feels alienated and judged instead of loved and accepted; this is a problem that has to be dealt with directly. You and your family need to forget about the shoulds and the shouldn'ts and work on understanding and appreciating her the way she is.

Maybe she is a bit controlling, highly-strung and all of that, but making cracks about how she's "crazy" behind her back isn't going to help to foster the attitude you need to cultivate. If you must joke about her, at least try to do it in a way that contains some warmth and affection.

I'm not saying that you're wrong and she's right, I'm saying that it doesn't matter who's wrong and who's right. As long as you think of this in those terms, you're going to get nowhere. Yes, it might take a lot of patience and persistence before you're able to get her trust back, but the potential rewards for all parties are priceless.
posted by teleskiving at 5:22 AM on December 3, 2007 [1 favorite]

If you do say something, definitely don't email. P will likely see it, either because of having access to the account, or your brother sharing....if you talk to your brother in person, you can be a little more blunt without it necessarily getting back to her.

I tend to feel these family dramas are all about the blame being pretty much spread around, though. Some grown-up sit-down instead of back-channel negotiation would be more helpful.
posted by stevis23 at 8:15 AM on December 3, 2007

I think the SIL actually is crazy, if she's actually withholding the grandkids and influencing the husband not to be in touch with his own parents. Only crazy people do things like this -- draw other people (especially children) into the maelstrom of their own vendettas. She's playing that game where she tries to make her husband prove that he loves her more than he loves his parents. The more you try to placate her, the more power she'll have over you.

There's nothing you can do about this except hope that your brother gets some backbone.
posted by footnote at 8:17 AM on December 3, 2007

Take the long view. Talk to your brother about potential ways to heal this rift, but also ways to make sure it doesn't get worse. Focus on the children, and the benefit to them of having 2 sets of loving grandparents. Your parents can help by continuing to send birthday and holiday cards. No matter who said what about whom, it's good to teach children to honor their grandparents.
posted by theora55 at 8:17 AM on December 3, 2007

A good friend of mine can barely stand her MIL for similar reasons (innocent comment or unforgivable insult). It's really a matter of perspective. The MIL is lucky if she gets to see her grandkid once every month or so. It's sad, but if momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.

Your mom needs to call her and have coffee with her. And your mom needs to say whatever she can say to make this woman like her (or tolerate her) again. No matter how good that letter was, it wasn't a conversation. Your mom needs to hear what is on your SIL's mind, even if it's "crazy." And your mom needs to respond in a warm, loving way to it. It's not "fair" but it sounds like your brother doesn't have time to bring the kids around himself, so this woman is the only person who can give your parents access to the kids.

Your mom needs to ask your SIL, in person, what she needs to do to get access to the kids again. And then your mom needs to seriously do it, and be really grateful.

This is all assuming that spending time with the grandkids is more important than pride.
posted by tk at 9:42 AM on December 3, 2007 [1 favorite]

There's enough about your story that doesn't add up and that leads me to say "mind your own business." Trying to get along and helping to smooth over a situation might be an admirable thing in many circumstances but

(1) you have been a part of this situation from the get-go and it's going poorly*. Maybe it's time for you to see if it goes less poorly once you butt out.
(2) As others have said, you're not sounding at all sympathetic to one side of this conflict*. Maybe you were once impartial, maybe not. Either way, it makes you a bad peacemaker when you've already assigned Right and Wrong.

* You describe a situation where your parents are unhappy but quite frankly, if they're not happy with how your brother and sister in law run their family then.... tough. It's unfortunate they aren't thrilled with the time they're getting with their grandkids but some of your examples of supposed wrongdoing is a little light.

Case one: The other grandparents let a week go by where they didn't have them over to see the kid? One: that's their action, not the daughter-in-law's. You have nothing but speculation about any possible tall tales they've been told. Two: a week is a pretty brief period of time. Three: Maybe they just wanted a little uninterrupted time with the kid on their own. You might think that's not very nice of them but again, that's them, not the DiL.

Case two: "they can’t help but get excited and hope that they stop by for more than a couple of hours," is hard to parse without knowing how much total time they're around for. Sometimes I'd like more time with my family or friends than they give me, but... so? That few hours may not seem like a lot but it's a big separation from complete cutoff.

Really, there's several reasonable explanations for this complaint. You've said that brother is very time-crunched, so perhaps they'd like to spend their family time with just the nuclear family. Or, it's entirely possible that they're getting the amount of face time that SiL and brother are interested in giving them. It's a shame that the people we want to be with may not want to be with us as often as we want to be with them but that's no tragedy and no slight. It's their family, not your parents'.

There's possible solutions for these situations. If it's your brother's time that's the issue then your parents can reach out to DiL and invite her and the kids to come visit without him. The danger there is that she might get the - possibly very reasonable and true - idea that they could give a fuck about her and just want grandkid time. Nobody wants to feel like a delivery driver, no matter how reasonable the desire might be on your parents' side.

Pretty much all of these solutions require better communication between DiL and your parents. They need to build/repair their relationship, and that relationship doesn't involve you. Encourage all told to talk to each other and then butt out.

If you must, communicate with your brother that your parents seem like they really miss their grandkids. Don't suggest solutions, don't assign blame, just say plain and simple that mom and dad seem sad. Keep reminding yourself that the whys are unknowable and none of your business. The solutions are not yours to pick. You're entitled to feel bad for your parents, who you love, and wish things were different. Period.
posted by phearlez at 10:45 AM on December 3, 2007 [2 favorites]

I was one of the kids in a situation like this 30 yrs ago. It sucks. You know how bizarre and confusing that blast of random rage was for your parents? Well, the kids get to experience that every day - with no outside sanity as a point of reference, because contact with relatives and other adults gets cut off. If their dad just goes along with it, then they come to accept it as normal.

Can you offer to babysit, then bring the kids over to visit your parents?

If the sister-in-law is not crazy, then the advice to sit down and talk with her will work. But if she is crazy - and my guess is that she is - then attempts to placate her are just going to give her more power, like footnote said.

Don't email. You don't want her to have something that she can read, and re-read, looking for ways to be offended.

What I would have liked, in my situation, would be for the relatives to just keep in contact. It's very important for everyone in the family, including your brother, to have a reminder of what normal people actually act like. When you're living with a crazy person it is very easy to think that the craziness is normal, and all your fault.
posted by selfmedicating at 11:11 AM on December 3, 2007 [2 favorites]

"Some “incident” happened two years ago"

I bet when P talks about the incident, she doesn't put it in quotes. Regardless of whether or not she's crazy or justified, the event was very real to her. And upsetting. And I bet it didn't happen in a vacuum.

"I learned about the situation a year ago from my parents, unbeknownst to my brother and P, and helped my mom write a letter saying that she can’t imagine she would say such a thing, but if she did then she was sorry."

So a year went by before P ever received an apology? And when she did, it was in an email, written by YOU? And it had the disclaimer of "I don't believe this happened, but if you say so, well THEN I'm sorry?"

You have no idea what is going on. What people do behind closed doors is their business, and you can never know. Until you are ready to hear ALL sides, while exercising compassion and fairness, and are listening without judgment, stay out of it.

In the meantime, you can start by putting yourself in her shoes and taking a long walk.
posted by iamkimiam at 2:13 PM on December 3, 2007 [2 favorites]

footnote wrote...
I think the SIL actually is crazy, if she's actually withholding the grandkids and influencing the husband not to be in touch with his own parents. Only crazy people do things like this -- draw other people (especially children) into the maelstrom of their own vendettas.

Ding ding ding!

All this business about trying to understand P's situation is nice but extremely misguided. A person who has adopted stances as extreme as these is not worth following down the rabbit hole.
posted by tkolar at 2:45 PM on December 4, 2007

It would be misguided if there were clear indications that this is what's actually happening. However the stated examples - as opposed to the hyperbolic initial question - don't indicate a person who has completely cut off family contact.

The supposed offenses have the visits not being more than "a few hours" and the criticisms call the mom the "Crazy sister-in-law" and that the "Brother [is] being a wuss about it." The fact that SiL's parents didn't call the other grandparents get blamed on this woman, something that could only be indirectly her fault if she was giving orders to her parents or - we're told - making up stories. To be frank, it's hard to take too seriously claims that she's spreading nasty tales about them when we don't get one concrete example or any evidence. Thinking someone is poisoning your reputation without a single shred of proof sounds borderline paranoiac.

None of that supports claims she's "withholding the grandkids." The poster even concedes that his/her brother might be deciding to talk to mom less on his own because she's making him uncomfortable.

Contrast these few examples with

"Crazy sister-in-law,"
"My sister-in-law (P) always seemed a bit bossy and self-centered,"
"P let this simmer for several months before exploding at my mom over the phone until P had her in tears."
"P seems to have created a family drama in her mind that she insists must be played out, mostly through icy silence."
"I have no idea what falsehoods P has spread around about my parents to them."
"it makes me rage against this woman who seems to get off on having her hand on the lever that controls my parents’ happiness."

I realize that the poster is frustrated with the situation and upset at what s/he sees as hir parents suffering, but this question was filled with negativity towards this woman and an admission that she was never really liked. We can't know from this brief and one-sided description but honestly - can you read this with an open mind and not question if perhaps this couple perhaps just doesn't like spending time with parents and a sibling that don't like or trust her as a person and think less of his judgment?

I find it entirely plausible we could have seen a question from another Anonymous that read like this:

My husband's family has never liked me or warmed up to me and being around them makes me miserable. We try to spend some time with them so our kids can know their grandparents, but it's not as much time as they want. In fairness, it's not as much time as the kids get with my parents, but the prospect of an extended visit with people who can't stand me and look down on my husband for marrying me isn't something either of us can stomach for more than a few hours.

I'm really at the end of my rope. Recently we went on an out-of-town trip where our youngest couldn't come and we left him with my parents. We made this decision because my parents have a larger and newer house that's all one level and childproofed, where my in-laws have a split-level and no child gate. If I am being honest with myself, however, I would have to admit that I didn't necessarily want to leave junior with two people who despise me for an entire week without being able to police their behavior.

I know this sounds over the top, but the newest thing is that they suspect me of making up stories about them to people, and slandering their reputation! I feel like we can't win. My husband tries to keep up a good relationship with them but now every conversation turns into an extended crying session with his mother asking when she can see her grandchildren again and he doesn't want to talk to her.

Which, of course, I get blamed for.

Really though, it's all beside the point. Tkolar is right in that you can't reason with someone who's irrational and hateful, but if that's really the case then the answer to the poster's "what can I do?" is "nothing," as he said earlier. However that's not a useful course of action - it's close to the current approach and all it's earning is tears.

So the alternative is to assume this woman is not crazy and try to come at this from another angle. Assuming all the worst seems to have been tried - what happens if you assume all the best?

Is it remotely possible she sees herself as the writer of the above hypothetical? Is there some other never-stated reason for this big disparity in what she wants and what the grandparents want? People who stew over things for months - if we stipulate that an being accurate - maybe don't have the best communication skills. Perhaps this is all nothing but shadows being cast by the real things going on.

If this was a story about people bending over backwards to make an irrational woman provide minimal visitation with her grandkids then avoiding empathizing and conversation might be a reasonable worry. What we have instead is stories of suspicion and communication that seems to be the form of apology letters about year-old incidents, plus some uncomfortable phone calls. There's no "rabbit hole" here, just a group of people who we have heard are all unhappy with the situation, with the exception of the mom, who has been called crazy and controlling.
posted by phearlez at 8:29 AM on December 5, 2007