I want my dry cleaner to starch my shirts, not save my soul!

November 8, 2007 7:58 PM

Help me politely but firmly stop my dry cleaner from trying to save my soul. Seriously. For about six months now, he's been sending me cassette tapes of sermons and leaflets from his church. Tonight I got home to find that he's upped the ante. . .

Turns out he came by the house with his wife and brought me a gift of a very nice casserole dish set, with a letter asking me to come to his church on Sunday. He even left me his wife's cell phone number, the number for the church, and a hand drawn map to the church. What's the deal here?!?? Isn't this a little overboard?!?? How do I tell him to stop?

Simply telling him that I'm not interested, followed by ignoring him, obviously isn't working. I've stopped bringing my dry cleaning to him (bummer, because it's only three blocks from my house), and throw out the various letters, church pamphlets, cassette tapes of sermons, CD recordings of sermons, etc., that he mails me on a regular basis. But coming to my house bearing gifts from his church? (By the way, he knows my name/address/phone number because, well, he's my dry cleaner and one never really thinks that one's dry cleaner is going to starch shirts AND save souls. . .) Oh, and I've been invited to his house for Thanksgiving as well.

I've encountered my share of evangelical Christians, but never like this. Usually a polite "No thanks," or "I'm not interested," is all I need. But that's not working with this guy. Mailings, I can just throw out. But it's starting to get really weird and creepy. My husband suggested that I write him a letter and lie and tell him that I've found a nice [insert non-Christian place of worship] that I'm happy with. But I fear that that might galvanize him even more in his attempts to save my soul.

So Mefites--How do I get him to stop? Also, I don't want to be rude, because, well, after all, he believes that he is doing what is best for me. . .I know, road to hell is paved with good intentions, but I really don't enjoy being rude, and I'd rather try for firm but polite.

posted by jujube to human relations (32 comments total)

First talk to his pastor. If that doesn't work, talk to the police.
posted by awesomebrad at 8:02 PM on November 8, 2007 [13 favorites]

Clearly you are a heathen in need of new crockery. Perhaps it is a maniacal mix of religion and MLM, hard to tell the difference between those two most of the time anyway. Whoo-hoo, someone hit the jackpot!

But seriously, no to the letter, no to the rest of it and yes to a clear and firm "buzz off". What right does anyone have to shove their version of God down your throat? Seriously, why can't you just tell him bluntly that he needs to stop while you are returning his dishes? Life is too short to try and be polite to zombies who obviously have no respect for boundaries. Set some.
posted by 45moore45 at 8:07 PM on November 8, 2007 [1 favorite]

Think of it this way: you're letting him waste his and your time by being polite. Have mercy and let loose with a nice polite "Fuck off!".

In all seriousness, my experience has been that certain people will *always* equate politeness with receptiveness. There really is no option left in these situations but firmly (read: rudely and repeatedly) saying no in some way sure to offend them.
posted by Benjy at 8:08 PM on November 8, 2007

Send a letter to him, and copy it to his pastor (make sure he knows), stating that you feel harassed by his behaviour and will be forced to report it to the police if it continues.
posted by Krrrlson at 8:09 PM on November 8, 2007

"Mr. Jones:
I understand that you are trying to do me a kindness. But your attentions are intrusive. I do not wish to have any more contact with you, of any kind."

(optionally, for a harsher/firmer wording, you could leave off the first sentence, and add something about how you regard this as harrassment and how you will be going to the police if he attempts to contact you again.)
posted by LobsterMitten at 8:14 PM on November 8, 2007

That is, I think a letter is a good idea (copied as Krrrlson suggests, and keep a copy yourself obviously; could send it certified mail so you can demonstrate to the police that he received it). But it shouldn't say "I've found a new church". It should say "Stop contacting me, because I said so."
posted by LobsterMitten at 8:16 PM on November 8, 2007

"Well I might consider going to your church, that is if I had fine cutlery to complement this rather plain casserole dish set"

It's admirable, the effort you're willing to take in order to not appear rude but now that you know there's no communication your politeness has become deception and you need to speak up.

You're going to have to be clear, either in person or by letter. Threaten to take it up with his superiors, and follow through with it.
posted by holloway at 8:22 PM on November 8, 2007 [1 favorite]

Tell him you're already a baptized member of the body of Christ and that you're already saved by God's grace. Remind him that whether you attend church or not does not change the fact that Jesus already died for your sins. Tell him to go spread the Good News to others who still need to hear it.

If he's truly trying to be a good Christian, he'll leave you alone. If he continues to pester you, he's a wackjob and you should seek a restraining order.
posted by dossy at 8:29 PM on November 8, 2007 [1 favorite]

Look at it this way: If he was pursuing you because he thought you should really have sex with him, how differently would you view this?

They guy is being extremely creepy, rude, intrusive and borderline legal harassment. Possibly over borderline harassment. This is about YOUR comfort, not his. He's already hounded you out of his business, and is now pursuing you at your home.

This is not something that you need to be polite about - it needs to stop. To continue the earlier analogy - he may think you will really enjoy the sex, but it's till something you have told him you don't want to do.

Firm words. Remove all ambiguity. Followed by (real) threats of law enforcement. Nobody has the 'best of intentions' if they are doing it explicitly against your wishes.
posted by Brockles at 8:31 PM on November 8, 2007

Hang a large Star of David on your front door.

OK, that's a bit much. But I've always thought that politely explaining to Jehova's Witnesses, etc. that I'm Jewish (whether I am or not is none of their business) tends to forestall further evangelizing pretty effectively.
posted by ZakDaddy at 8:37 PM on November 8, 2007

Tell him you're already a baptized member of the body of Christ and that you're already saved by God's grace.......

If he's truly trying to be a good Christian, he'll leave you alone.

Are you serious? If he is a normal human being, telling him no should be enough. All this pretending to have a conflicting religion is a hideous suggestion. The fact that a simple 'no' won't deter him is, in my opinion, more disturbing than trying to deflect it will cure.

Say no. If he doesn't respond, say 'fuck off, or I'll call the police".
posted by Brockles at 8:45 PM on November 8, 2007

So Mefites--How do I get him to stop? Also, I don't want to be rude, because, well, after all, he believes that he is doing what is best for me. . .I know, road to hell is paved with good intentions, but I really don't enjoy being rude, and I'd rather try for firm but polite.

I'll suggest you meet him face to face and instead of the "no thanks" or "I'm not interested" type comments that are perfectly fine for most of the population, you just present him with straightforward honesty: "Bob, I'm giving you back this gift. I don't want it and I think it's inappropriate for you to have given this to me. I want you to stop sending me literature and gifts. Will you stop?" If he asks why, tell him "Because I don't want you to, and because I am asking you to stop." If he starts preaching, just repeat: "But I don't want you to, and I am asking you to stop. Will you stop?"

If he says no he won't then say "In that case, I am going to have to talk to your pastor and the police. Goodbye."

If he says yes, but then continues sending you things, take the items to his job and tell him: "You said you were going to stop sending me things. I am now going to talk to your pastor and the police. Goodbye."
posted by 23skidoo at 8:46 PM on November 8, 2007 [10 favorites]

Just to give a slightly different perspective:

My brother-in-law started demonstrating almost the exact same behavior when he was in graduate school, and it wasn't because he was convinced that his classmate was a heathen. It actually turned out the be the first sign that he had what would turn out to be a heartbreaking and crippling case of OCD.

So, I guess I'm just nthing the suggestion to go to his pastor and then the police if you have to. I'm a Christian, but I don't believe that you should be made to feel this way. I just want to chime in and say that trying to offend him away from you (a frequent MeFi suggestion for dealing with religious zealotry) may not be the best suggestion either.
posted by 4ster at 9:23 PM on November 8, 2007 [1 favorite]

like telemarketers, these people aren't going to stop until you get assertive... and rude if necessary.
posted by Mr_Crazyhorse at 9:26 PM on November 8, 2007

Obviously, you have taken all reasonable, personable, kind measures with these folks. Short of calling the police and after speaking with the clergy of theirs and not receiving any relief...

I would:

Nicey-nice: Return the set of dishes to the dry cleaner and his wife at their place of business. While thanking them, ask that they donate the set to a person in need from their church. Inform them that you are **gur-blargh-gurgh** wanting to feast upon their **blaarrrgh** pure flesh and cook it in their giftware otherwise.

Not-so-nicey-nice: Return the set of dishes to the dry cleaner and his wife at their place of business. Explain again that you are comfortable with your relationship(s) with [deity/deities/lack of deity] of choice. Leave an inappropriate gift within one of the lidded packaged items for the next gift recipient they encounter who will assume that the couple who gave the gift intended them to be privy to (and invited to participate in) some outlandish/sick ritual.
posted by bonobo at 10:06 PM on November 8, 2007

You will need to be direct, whether you do so in a certified letter or in person. Making something up about another church or another religion might not deter him, and then you'll need to be direct anyway. So you may as well go from A to C and skip B entirely.

Be civil but firm. Return the dishes and tell him in no uncertain terms that any further attempts to contact you will result in a conversation with the police. His use of your address for non-business purposes is a violation of your privacy, so such a conversation will certainly be justified.

If it worries you to do this in person, take a friend with you.
posted by bluishorange at 10:54 PM on November 8, 2007

Oh, and:

Leave an inappropriate gift within one of the lidded packaged items for the next gift recipient they encounter who will assume that the couple who gave the gift intended them to be privy to (and invited to participate in) some outlandish/sick ritual.

Don't do this if you want the police to be on your side if you end up needing them. As of now, you're thoroughly in the right, and I think you should keep it that way.
posted by bluishorange at 11:00 PM on November 8, 2007

I had a great time talking to a guy who knocked on our door a few nights in a row one time. He was passing out literature for his church, of course, with some obscured name on it.

The third or fourth night that he knocked, my wife, not hearing me open the door, loudly said something along the lines of, "Fucking hell, is it that Scientology fruitcake again? Honey, stop messing with him."

After that he never came around anymore. Guess he needed to go detoxify. So that's my roundabout way of n-thing the suggestion: be blunt. Politeness just enables them, which can be amusing until it's not anymore.
posted by empyrean at 12:20 AM on November 9, 2007

Oh my goodness, the police? That seems hysterical to me. Assuming you've already said firmly, "I'm sorry, I appreciate the thought, but I hope you will respect that I have different beliefs," the next step for me would be going to a new dry-cleaner.
posted by loiseau at 1:38 AM on November 9, 2007

loiseau: If you read the question, he's already done that.
posted by grouse at 2:00 AM on November 9, 2007

Go to the church (you already have the map) and speak to the pastor. (I'd return to dishes to him too) Most are reasonable sorts and wouldn't like to feel that one of their congregation is behaving in such an aggressive way. A word from him would mostly likely do far more than any polite or rude 'no thanks' from you.
posted by missmagenta at 3:10 AM on November 9, 2007

I think the Star of David the wrong track because then you *really* need to be saved as Judaism does not recognize JC as being the Messiah.

So, go the other apostate route: Roman Catholicism!

Statues of Mary abound, votive candles, rosaries, Rosaries, ROSARIES!

Wear white on the Pope's birthday, take every single Holy Day off, adopt Romish tendencies (whatever they may be, go crazy and free form here!) and meet his evangelical fire with a lot of Popish foppery!

That casserole? If there's meat in it, refuse it when they deliver on a Friday! Have 18 kids! Go to Lourdes!

(Of course, if the guy is RC, you're screwed; start going to Temple and hope for the best.)
posted by Dagobert at 3:28 AM on November 9, 2007

I know you've told him you're not interested, but have you actually tried asking him to stop? There's a difference between "No, thanks, I'm not interested," and "No, thanks, I'm not interested, please stop asking me."

I'd start with asking (polite): "Thank you for your generosity, but this is starting to make me feel uncomfortable. Please stop sending me things and asking me to go to church with you." (Returning the dishes).

Then move to telling (impolite): "Do not contact me again."

Then I'd go to the pastor, and if that didn't work, I'd go to the police.
posted by lampoil at 3:46 AM on November 9, 2007

send him a letter and make a copy--you want this in writing. send it with delivery confirmation, so you know he received it.

tell him he is making you uncomfortable and that you are taking your business elsewhere. tell him that if he contacts you again, you have no choice but to interpret it as a threat and will call the police.
posted by thinkingwoman at 4:18 AM on November 9, 2007

You probably haven't been straight forward with him. Look him straight in the eyes and tell him you're not interested in joining his faith and you feel uncomfortable accepting gifts from him. End of story.

No need to call the military or hide a baseball bat under your pillow.
posted by survivorman at 5:32 AM on November 9, 2007

I have always wanted to try this approach.
posted by TedW at 5:38 AM on November 9, 2007

A little different take on this:

I grew up around these types of people, and it sounds to me like this kind of behavior is being sanctioned by his church. He's likely part of a congregation that encourages this sort of evangelism, and actually instructs members on how to effectively "share" their faith. He's probably just your average dumbass congregation member who thinks he's doing what he's supposed to because a church figure told him to. In his mind, he's offering you the greatest gift ever-- and all you need to do is realize that and accept it.

Having said that, I know how fucking annoying this must be, and this guy's clearly not getting the hint.

The problem is, your resistance/non-cooperation is probably marking you as a "tough case" that encourages him that much more. The more organized his church's soul-winning efforts (many churches actually have visitation committees, or ask their congregation to keep lists of people they are currently "witnessing" to), the more likely it is that you're on a "prayer list" that he keeps.

Since you asked for the polite route, here's my recommendation for a note or conversation:

"Hey, Bill, I see you've been pretty diligent about inviting us to your church. I know your church and your faith mean a lot to you, and I appreciate you thinking of us. If we ever decide to attend a church, we have the information about yours.

"I know this must sound strange to you, but we're really just not looking for a church family right now. Different people have different spiritual needs, and we're doing OK in that department right now, as we see it.

"You probably noticed we haven't been coming by with our dry-cleaning, and we'd like to come back-- you're only three blocks away, after all-- but I don't feel comfortable doing that unless I know you're getting my point about this. Really, we don't want to talk about it anymore. Can you please just leave the decision to us about attending your church?"

If he persists, give the benefit of the doubt ONCE, saying:
"Bill, I though I made it clear to you, we're not interested.
Now, I'm starting to feel a little harassed."

If he still persists, it's time to start "evangelizing" to him every week. Go to the nearest adult bookstore and get the raunchiest gay porn you can find. Take the pamphlets he's given you and make an awesome blasphemous collage with the magazines (putting the head of Jesus on the body of a guy getting it good up the ass is always a nice touch). Send him cassettes with the audio of a good porno on them. Ask him such theological questions as, "Hey, if Jesus was perfect in every way, how long do you reckon his cock was?" or "When Jesus was having sex with all those prostitutes he ran into, do you think they got off on fucking the Son of God? God, that must have been fucking awesome!"

I'm guessing that after a couple of these encounters, you'll fall to the bottom of his prayer list.
posted by Rykey at 5:47 AM on November 9, 2007

Unless your dry cleaner delivers, his use of his database to get your address (I'm assuming that's how he knows where you live...) and come to your house on a non-dry-cleaning related errand is probably illegal, or at the very least unethical. Tell him to stop, and don't be polite about it - if it ends up that you no longer do business there, I'm guessing there are other dry cleaners in your town where you can take your clothes.
posted by pdb at 8:00 AM on November 9, 2007

Dagobert, if the views expressed in the "Are Catholics Christians" thread on Metatalk are any indicator of common perceptions of Catholicism in the US, I'd wager that loudly professing to be a Catholic would just make the dry-cleaner want to convert the OP even more.

I put this situation in the same category as being agressively pursued by a drunk guy in a disco. Tell him to get lost in no uncertain terms and then don't respond in any way to him again.
posted by LN at 10:26 AM on November 9, 2007

Please update us, if you can. Good luck to you!
posted by agregoli at 11:27 AM on November 9, 2007

I live around quite a few fundamentalists, and unfortunately, it is usually the church that is behind these aggressive attempts to save souls.

Tithing is really big among fundamentalists, because it keeps the church coffers flush, keeps the pastor living in a million-dollar McMansion, and constantly replenishing the ranks of parishioners becomes a top priority. Your dry cleaner has probably heard lectures about how sad it is that few Christians try to bring new souls to the church anymore. Your dry cleaner is doing exactly what his pastor has urged him to do.

The key here is being firm. Saying, "thank you, but I am not interested." If he persists, say, "You're wasting your time and mine." If he still keeps coming by, say, "You're not welcome to come on my property anymore." If he disregards that, call the police. (He's welcome to continue sending you things; I'm not aware of any law that would bar him from sending you stuff, unless you have a restraining order, and you will not likely get a restraining order since he has not threatened you.)
posted by jayder at 8:03 PM on November 9, 2007

Thanks everyone for the great suggestions!
posted by jujube at 11:22 AM on November 11, 2007