Optimistic and pessimistic music.
October 20, 2007 6:39 PM
What is the most optimistic music known to humankind, and what is the most pessimistic or depressing music known to humankind? I'm looking for genres but I'm focusing on songs. I am also interested to see which side wins in this competition -- I'd suspect the darker side defeats the lighter side in quantity, but what about quality?
You're going to get a lot of great answers on both sides for this, but let me state at the outset that the Blues is relatively unique in expressing both extraordinary anguish and remarkable optimism in the face of that anguish.
posted by googly at 6:54 PM on October 20, 2007
posted by googly at 6:54 PM on October 20, 2007
Polka + Little brown jug!
Church - Mighty fortress is our G
posted by hortense at 6:57 PM on October 20, 2007
Church - Mighty fortress is our G
posted by hortense at 6:57 PM on October 20, 2007
Most optimistic band of all time: The Free Design. I submit as Exhibit A: Bubbles.
posted by doift at 7:06 PM on October 20, 2007
posted by doift at 7:06 PM on October 20, 2007
Googly makes a good point.
The most depressing album ever recorded is Lou Reed's Berlin. The happiest music is by They Might be Giants.
posted by LarryC at 7:08 PM on October 20, 2007
The most depressing album ever recorded is Lou Reed's Berlin. The happiest music is by They Might be Giants.
posted by LarryC at 7:08 PM on October 20, 2007
Here is something you otherwise wouldn't think of: happy hardcore. I find many of the tracks in it are extremely uplifting and positive. Examples are Paradise by DJ Dougal and You're My Angel by Styles & Breeze.
Ecstasy by ATB is another good example of non-mainstream happy music.
posted by Ctrl_Alt_ep at 7:17 PM on October 20, 2007
Ecstasy by ATB is another good example of non-mainstream happy music.
posted by Ctrl_Alt_ep at 7:17 PM on October 20, 2007
Most optimistic, I think: Hope Sandoval and the Warm Inventions
Most pessimistic: maybe Leonard Cohen, especially Songs of Love and Hate?
posted by nasreddin at 7:18 PM on October 20, 2007
Most pessimistic: maybe Leonard Cohen, especially Songs of Love and Hate?
posted by nasreddin at 7:18 PM on October 20, 2007
For the optimistic, I'd nominate the Beatles, particularly Sgt Pepper. Whenever I listen to it, I'm just amazed, and I think, my god, how far away are we from a time when that could be written.
posted by alms at 7:22 PM on October 20, 2007
posted by alms at 7:22 PM on October 20, 2007
Optimistic? Happy hardcore, of course!
Pessimistic? Techstep or drill'n'bass.
posted by meehawl at 7:27 PM on October 20, 2007
Pessimistic? Techstep or drill'n'bass.
posted by meehawl at 7:27 PM on October 20, 2007
Actually, as much as I generally don't care for it I thing gospel, in general, would have to rank pretty darn high on the optimistic side.
posted by edgeways at 7:28 PM on October 20, 2007
posted by edgeways at 7:28 PM on October 20, 2007
Mozart's Requiem for good-lord-we're all-dying.
Penguin Cafe Orchestra for much of the happiest, and seconding Ode to Joy.
posted by vers at 7:32 PM on October 20, 2007
Penguin Cafe Orchestra for much of the happiest, and seconding Ode to Joy.
posted by vers at 7:32 PM on October 20, 2007
On the optimistic front, pre-1930's Hot Jazz is your ticket. You can't listen to that stuff, and not tap your toe, and smile. On the pessimistic end, Barber's Adagio for Strings is so iconic as a signal for pathos, it's been in the soundtrack of several movies, including Platoon, The Elephant Man and Lorenzo's Oil; in 2004, it was voted by BBC listeners the "saddest classical" work ever.
posted by paulsc at 7:37 PM on October 20, 2007
posted by paulsc at 7:37 PM on October 20, 2007
This is a difficult question. Elgar wrote his Cello Concerto about World War II IIRC, and it is considered to be very dark and depressing. But I have always found it strangely uplifting.
posted by wittgenstein at 7:42 PM on October 20, 2007
posted by wittgenstein at 7:42 PM on October 20, 2007
I think there's a difference between sad music and pessimistic music. Adagio for Strings is sad (and beautiful); countless emo bands are pessimistic (and... you know).
posted by ludwig_van at 8:05 PM on October 20, 2007
posted by ludwig_van at 8:05 PM on October 20, 2007
There was an interesting This American Life about joyful and depressing sounds/tones that I only caught a small sliver of. The gist, as I remember it, was that sharps and flats tend to indicate upset, depression, sadness, etc throughout cultures. Coincidentally, those same sounds are the ones that our refrigerators & printers & computers make if amplified. Part of the point was "no wonder office workers are so dissatisfied with their jobs!"
posted by soviet sleepover at 8:13 PM on October 20, 2007
posted by soviet sleepover at 8:13 PM on October 20, 2007
For sad may I nominate Henry Gorecki's Symphony of Sorrowful Songs?
posted by AwkwardPause at 8:24 PM on October 20, 2007
posted by AwkwardPause at 8:24 PM on October 20, 2007
Optimistic: JPop, all of it. Maybe start with the Initial D OST?
posted by Skorgu at 8:24 PM on October 20, 2007
posted by Skorgu at 8:24 PM on October 20, 2007
Marches are usually determinedly optimistic.
posted by dilettante at 8:24 PM on October 20, 2007
posted by dilettante at 8:24 PM on October 20, 2007
I was just randomly thinking today that Bob Dylan's "Ballad of Hollis Brown" might be the most depressing song in the history of depressing music. It's not just that it's a sad, miserable story about the desperate guy driven to murder his family rather than watch them starve to death. It's that the whole thing is told in the second person, so that you're forced to imagine that you're the one looking at your crazy-eyed, starving babies and thinking that the best thing to do would be to shoot them. Cheerful!
posted by craichead at 8:27 PM on October 20, 2007
posted by craichead at 8:27 PM on October 20, 2007
Genre-wise, when it comes to pessimistic and depressing, funeral doom metal pretty much wins. At any rate, nothing else I can think of takes it to quite the degree that does.
For optimism, certain kinds of pop might be the winners- much J-pop tries to be as ridiculously happy and optimistic as it possibly can. Some of the more dance-oriented varieties of electronic music could be in the running as well- see happy hardcore in particular, as mentioned by Ctrl_Alt_ep and meehawl.
Song-wise, the question becomes almost too large and and too much a matter of personal taste to usefully answer. There's a great deal more diversity in general looking at it on the level of individual songs- one of the most depressing songs I have ever heard might be considered a J-pop song. ("Komm Süsser Todd", off the soundtrack of the End of Evangelion anime, which I haven't actually seen. I'm not sure it actually counts as J-pop, though.) And examples of upbeat doom metal can be found sometimes in the stoner doom sub-genre, along with a few old Black Sabbath songs if you count them- "The Wizard" by them is a pretty cheery song both lyrically and musically. (I don't think it would make the short list of happiest songs I've ever heard, though.)
As for quality, that's all very subjective, but granted that I am not a particularly optimistic person myself, I do think optimism and happiness are harder to do successfully, possibly for reasons similar to those that explain why there have been so many more successful depictions of hell than heaven in art and literature. (Like how Dante's Inferno is pretty much universally regarded as better than the Paradiso- something similar seems to be at play in music.)
posted by a louis wain cat at 8:35 PM on October 20, 2007
For optimism, certain kinds of pop might be the winners- much J-pop tries to be as ridiculously happy and optimistic as it possibly can. Some of the more dance-oriented varieties of electronic music could be in the running as well- see happy hardcore in particular, as mentioned by Ctrl_Alt_ep and meehawl.
Song-wise, the question becomes almost too large and and too much a matter of personal taste to usefully answer. There's a great deal more diversity in general looking at it on the level of individual songs- one of the most depressing songs I have ever heard might be considered a J-pop song. ("Komm Süsser Todd", off the soundtrack of the End of Evangelion anime, which I haven't actually seen. I'm not sure it actually counts as J-pop, though.) And examples of upbeat doom metal can be found sometimes in the stoner doom sub-genre, along with a few old Black Sabbath songs if you count them- "The Wizard" by them is a pretty cheery song both lyrically and musically. (I don't think it would make the short list of happiest songs I've ever heard, though.)
As for quality, that's all very subjective, but granted that I am not a particularly optimistic person myself, I do think optimism and happiness are harder to do successfully, possibly for reasons similar to those that explain why there have been so many more successful depictions of hell than heaven in art and literature. (Like how Dante's Inferno is pretty much universally regarded as better than the Paradiso- something similar seems to be at play in music.)
posted by a louis wain cat at 8:35 PM on October 20, 2007
they say that when holst was rehearsing his premiere presentation of "the planets," when he reached the "jupiter, bringer of joy" section, the cleaning staff at the music hall stopped what they were doing and began dancing with their mops.
although for sheer optimism, i would guess any college fight song might fill the bill. :)
posted by thinkingwoman at 8:40 PM on October 20, 2007
although for sheer optimism, i would guess any college fight song might fill the bill. :)
posted by thinkingwoman at 8:40 PM on October 20, 2007
I don't know, alms, I think "Eleanor Rigby" is one of the most depressing songs ever recorded. Incredibly beautiful, but tremendously pessimistic.
posted by moonlet at 8:48 PM on October 20, 2007
posted by moonlet at 8:48 PM on October 20, 2007
I think optimism in music can be separated into two parts... 'happiness/giddyness' and 'joy'.
Happiness: Ben Folds "Zak and Sara"
Joy: anything by Sigur Ros
posted by softlord at 8:53 PM on October 20, 2007
Happiness: Ben Folds "Zak and Sara"
Joy: anything by Sigur Ros
posted by softlord at 8:53 PM on October 20, 2007
Light optimistic froth: Katrina and the Waves, "Walking on Sunshine"
posted by flabdablet at 9:00 PM on October 20, 2007
posted by flabdablet at 9:00 PM on October 20, 2007
Is there such a thing as a sad polka?"Cemetery Polka", by Tom Waits. Sample:
Uncle Phil can't live without his pills
He has emphysema and is almost blind
And we must find out where the money is
Get it now before he loses his mind
posted by Flunkie at 9:18 PM on October 20, 2007
How about pessimistic songs that people who aren't paying attention think are optimistic?
The best example I can think of is Springsteen's "Born in the USA".
posted by Flunkie at 9:38 PM on October 20, 2007
The best example I can think of is Springsteen's "Born in the USA".
posted by Flunkie at 9:38 PM on October 20, 2007
And maybe, to some degree at least, "Fast Car" by Tracy Chapman, "Little Pink Houses" by John Mellencamp, and "Every Step You Take" by the Police.
But "Born in the USA" beats them all.
posted by Flunkie at 9:40 PM on October 20, 2007
But "Born in the USA" beats them all.
posted by Flunkie at 9:40 PM on October 20, 2007
"La Morisque" by Tylman Susato (1500-1562) is one of the most optimistic pieces of music I can think of. You can listen to a sample here (track 6).
posted by Stove at 9:58 PM on October 20, 2007
posted by Stove at 9:58 PM on October 20, 2007
Swans, esp early Swans?
PJ Harvey's new record White Chalk is depressing as hell.
posted by citron at 10:47 PM on October 20, 2007
PJ Harvey's new record White Chalk is depressing as hell.
posted by citron at 10:47 PM on October 20, 2007
Radio Lab dealt with this topic in their Musical Language show. The segment starts about 24 minutes into the programme and discusses how sound travels into our ears and how discordant sounds can make people feel emotionally and physically upset. They do an interesting piece about the riots at the first production of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring.
I think this is my favourite episode of Radio Lab.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 10:52 PM on October 20, 2007
I think this is my favourite episode of Radio Lab.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 10:52 PM on October 20, 2007
"Paint It Black" by the Rolling Stones is a severely pessimistic song.
posted by Falconetti at 11:05 PM on October 20, 2007
posted by Falconetti at 11:05 PM on October 20, 2007
Most pessimistic: definitely funeral doom. Grab a copy of Ahab's "The Call of the Wretched Seas". Incredibly massive and brutal songs about the impossibility of fighting God, it's quite something.
posted by nicolas léonard sadi carnot at 11:35 PM on October 20, 2007
posted by nicolas léonard sadi carnot at 11:35 PM on October 20, 2007
Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima by Krzysztof Penderecki.
It is perhaps a more sad/depressing piece about death than a Requiem would be. A Requiem, in my mind, is more about pleading for forgiveness on behalf of the dead(and being glad that there's this Jesus guy around to keep you out of the hands of the Old Testament god), rather than simply being afraid or sad about death.
posted by Zach! at 11:49 PM on October 20, 2007
It is perhaps a more sad/depressing piece about death than a Requiem would be. A Requiem, in my mind, is more about pleading for forgiveness on behalf of the dead(and being glad that there's this Jesus guy around to keep you out of the hands of the Old Testament god), rather than simply being afraid or sad about death.
posted by Zach! at 11:49 PM on October 20, 2007
"Watermelon In Easter Hay" by Frank Zappa would make me want to suck the business end of a shotgun.
"Dream on Dreamer" by the Brand New Heavies would get me off the ledge of a tall building.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 12:06 AM on October 21, 2007
"Dream on Dreamer" by the Brand New Heavies would get me off the ledge of a tall building.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 12:06 AM on October 21, 2007
For sad/depressing, A Silver Mt. Zion's "He Has Left Us Alone But Shafts of Light Sometimes Grace the Corners of Our Rooms" is staggeringly, heartbreakingly beautiful and depressing. At this point, they were a trio of Godspeed You! Black Emperor members, so there is a little bit of the same feel - but everything is stripped down, spare, and beyond all, empty, empty and echoing and sad. For that matter, Godspeed's "Lift Yr. Skinny Fists Like Antennas To Heaven" or "F#A#oo" are also gorgeous and depressing, but they have a very different feel: a rushing symphonic feel of inevitability, heading towards apocalypse, or disaster, or...
Genre-wise, I'd second a louis wain cat - funeral doom metal is one of the more consistently depressing genres out there.
posted by ubersturm at 3:04 AM on October 21, 2007
Genre-wise, I'd second a louis wain cat - funeral doom metal is one of the more consistently depressing genres out there.
posted by ubersturm at 3:04 AM on October 21, 2007
Ted Leo's got some pretty optimistic songs -- Little Dawn and Biomusicology come to mind.
posted by spiderskull at 3:11 AM on October 21, 2007
posted by spiderskull at 3:11 AM on October 21, 2007
Gospel music is designed to be the mongst the most optimistic and uplifting music on the planet. If you've ever seen a great choir, you'll know how infectious the mood is.
posted by BobsterLobster at 3:46 AM on October 21, 2007
posted by BobsterLobster at 3:46 AM on October 21, 2007
I can't think of a bleaker song than Tapio Rautavaara's Ontuva Eriksson, Eriksson the Cripple, set to the poem by Oiva Paloheimo, and recorded in 1951. Tends to bring tears to my eyes when I hear or sing it.
It's the story of a crippled, despised beggar who has died and almost gone to heaven. He's had his dignity so crushed in his lifetime that he doesn't dare enter; instead he takes off his hat and starts begging again -- at the gates of heaven -- where the pious, now in front of the lord, pretend kindness towards him. Finally, come nightfall, the gates of heaven are closed right before his eyes, like countless gates before down on earth.
Here's the last verse in my rough translation:
The quiet man limps towards the wall
and lays down under his coat.
At least, tonight, there is no rain,
and no police in sight.
Best for you to settle down
outside heaven's gate
You couldn't ask to hear the harps play
could you, Eriksson?
The lines I've emphasized really hit me, because the sentiment is still true in the Finnish "welfare society", year 2007. If you see a homeless man in the streets of Helsinki, down in the middle of the sidewalk, drunken legless or otherwise ill and immobile, ask him if he wants you to call the emergency number to get him some help.
He will know that they won't send an ambulance, they will send cops; and odds are good that he will sit through the night on cold, wet pavement, absolutely defenseless, rather than be taken by the police.
posted by Anything at 4:00 AM on October 21, 2007
It's the story of a crippled, despised beggar who has died and almost gone to heaven. He's had his dignity so crushed in his lifetime that he doesn't dare enter; instead he takes off his hat and starts begging again -- at the gates of heaven -- where the pious, now in front of the lord, pretend kindness towards him. Finally, come nightfall, the gates of heaven are closed right before his eyes, like countless gates before down on earth.
Here's the last verse in my rough translation:
The quiet man limps towards the wall
and lays down under his coat.
At least, tonight, there is no rain,
and no police in sight.
Best for you to settle down
outside heaven's gate
You couldn't ask to hear the harps play
could you, Eriksson?
The lines I've emphasized really hit me, because the sentiment is still true in the Finnish "welfare society", year 2007. If you see a homeless man in the streets of Helsinki, down in the middle of the sidewalk, drunken legless or otherwise ill and immobile, ask him if he wants you to call the emergency number to get him some help.
He will know that they won't send an ambulance, they will send cops; and odds are good that he will sit through the night on cold, wet pavement, absolutely defenseless, rather than be taken by the police.
posted by Anything at 4:00 AM on October 21, 2007
There was an episode of Father Ted where a depressed priest was cured by listening to the theme from Shaft, only to lapse back into despair when Radiohead came on the radio.
posted by tomcooke at 4:10 AM on October 21, 2007
posted by tomcooke at 4:10 AM on October 21, 2007
Neutral Milk Hotel tends to put me in a pretty sad place. For optimistic, Belle and Sebastian. Even though the lyrics can sometimes be sad the music and tempo just seems to communicate that everything will be OK.
posted by miss tea at 4:52 AM on October 21, 2007
posted by miss tea at 4:52 AM on October 21, 2007
Here are some songs I think are sad:
Brian Eno - An Ending (Ascent)
Nick Drake - Parasite
Arvo Pärt - Berliner Messe: Kyrie
Mendelssohn - Sechs Sprüche: In Der Passionszeit
Mystikal - Pussy Crook*
I'm sure you can find any number of songs out there, from just about any genre, that will make you feel very happy or very sad. So, I don't think I'm being very helpful just tossing a bunch of titles at you.
The thing about sad pieces of music is that they almost always evoke happiness and sadness at the same time. We tend to regard music that is unrelentingly depressing as melodramatic (take Mozart's "Rex Tremendae" or "Dies Irae" from Requiem, which are firmly in minor modes). But music that can sound alternately happy and sad seems to be capable of eliciting our sense of pathos (take Barber's Adagio For Strings, which shifts almost constantly from major to minor to chords that are neither here nor there). Of course, lyrics can add another dimension to the whole thing. And I'm approaching this from a narrow point of view -- I'm thinking only in terms of the equal-tempered twelve-tone scale, with just major, minor and maybe a few church modes. I think that most other modes and scales sound so foreign to western ears that we are not sure how to emotionally respond to them, other than with puzzlement. This raises the question of whether certain music sounds happy or sad to us because of our learned psychological associations with it, or because we instinctively respond to it in a particular way. I'm inclined to believe that it's our learned associations. For instance, if I suddenly heard Penderecki's Threnody or Ligeti's Atmospheres for the first time, without knowing anything about the pieces themselves, I don't think I would be sad or happy, exactly. I would just be VERY ALARMED AND CONFUSED! at all the crazy discordant noises. This would place me closer to being sad than happy, since I find alarm and confusion emotionally upsetting. But I wouldn't actually be sad. Of course, knowing that Threnody was written to memorialize Hiroshima would probably make me sad, albeit in a more cerebral way than a traditionally sad piece of music.
PS In my opinion, the unaccompanied voice has the greatest ability to create a mood of sadness.
*No, not really.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 5:03 AM on October 21, 2007
Brian Eno - An Ending (Ascent)
Nick Drake - Parasite
Arvo Pärt - Berliner Messe: Kyrie
Mendelssohn - Sechs Sprüche: In Der Passionszeit
Mystikal - Pussy Crook*
I'm sure you can find any number of songs out there, from just about any genre, that will make you feel very happy or very sad. So, I don't think I'm being very helpful just tossing a bunch of titles at you.
The thing about sad pieces of music is that they almost always evoke happiness and sadness at the same time. We tend to regard music that is unrelentingly depressing as melodramatic (take Mozart's "Rex Tremendae" or "Dies Irae" from Requiem, which are firmly in minor modes). But music that can sound alternately happy and sad seems to be capable of eliciting our sense of pathos (take Barber's Adagio For Strings, which shifts almost constantly from major to minor to chords that are neither here nor there). Of course, lyrics can add another dimension to the whole thing. And I'm approaching this from a narrow point of view -- I'm thinking only in terms of the equal-tempered twelve-tone scale, with just major, minor and maybe a few church modes. I think that most other modes and scales sound so foreign to western ears that we are not sure how to emotionally respond to them, other than with puzzlement. This raises the question of whether certain music sounds happy or sad to us because of our learned psychological associations with it, or because we instinctively respond to it in a particular way. I'm inclined to believe that it's our learned associations. For instance, if I suddenly heard Penderecki's Threnody or Ligeti's Atmospheres for the first time, without knowing anything about the pieces themselves, I don't think I would be sad or happy, exactly. I would just be VERY ALARMED AND CONFUSED! at all the crazy discordant noises. This would place me closer to being sad than happy, since I find alarm and confusion emotionally upsetting. But I wouldn't actually be sad. Of course, knowing that Threnody was written to memorialize Hiroshima would probably make me sad, albeit in a more cerebral way than a traditionally sad piece of music.
PS In my opinion, the unaccompanied voice has the greatest ability to create a mood of sadness.
*No, not really.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 5:03 AM on October 21, 2007
There is a story by Arthur C. Clarcke in the Tales of the White Stag Tavern that says the most optimistic and uplifting tune ever is When The Saints Go Marching In.
For depressing, I would go for Scandinavian Death Metal stuff. I feel like killing myself about five seconds after being forced to listen.
posted by kandinski at 7:11 AM on October 21, 2007
For depressing, I would go for Scandinavian Death Metal stuff. I feel like killing myself about five seconds after being forced to listen.
posted by kandinski at 7:11 AM on October 21, 2007
Hm, this probably makes the third time I've mentioned this in ten comments. On the depressing side:
Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds – The Mercy Seat
posted by avocet at 9:53 AM on October 21, 2007
Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds – The Mercy Seat
posted by avocet at 9:53 AM on October 21, 2007
Nick can get pretty depressing! I would say Boatman's Call on that - "Where do we go now but nowhere" and "Idiot Prayer"
I find Mountain Goats Sunset Tree very optimistic.. sad.. but doesn't end sad.. inspiring, esp "Dance Music" and "This Year" and "Love, love, love"
posted by citron at 10:03 AM on October 21, 2007
I find Mountain Goats Sunset Tree very optimistic.. sad.. but doesn't end sad.. inspiring, esp "Dance Music" and "This Year" and "Love, love, love"
posted by citron at 10:03 AM on October 21, 2007
The most optimistic song I know of is Optimistic by Sounds of Blackness, which I suppose fits into the gospel genre.
From around 3.45 onwards it gives the illusion (to my ears, at least) that the pitch keeps rising and rising, like a Shepard scale, which might be what makes it seem so optimistic (you know, on top of the title, and the lyrics, and the impossibly cheerful singers...)
posted by boosh at 10:16 AM on October 21, 2007
From around 3.45 onwards it gives the illusion (to my ears, at least) that the pitch keeps rising and rising, like a Shepard scale, which might be what makes it seem so optimistic (you know, on top of the title, and the lyrics, and the impossibly cheerful singers...)
posted by boosh at 10:16 AM on October 21, 2007
I'm surprised that nobody mentioned Disintegration from the Cure for the depressing part.
V.
posted by V-Turn at 10:43 AM on October 21, 2007
V.
posted by V-Turn at 10:43 AM on October 21, 2007
You should check out Guy Maddin's movie "The Saddest Music in the World." As I understand it, he asked local musical groups in Winnepeg to come perform their saddest songs. The results were woven into the central plot of the movie -- a contest to discover the saddest music in the world.
posted by Sculthorpe at 11:41 AM on October 21, 2007
posted by Sculthorpe at 11:41 AM on October 21, 2007
I second the GYBE! recommendation for most depressing. f#a#oo is a stellar album.
The car's on fire and there's no driver at the wheel
And the sewers are all muddied with a thousand lonely suicides
And a dark wind blows
The government is corrupt
And we're on so many drugs
With the radio on and the curtains drawn
We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine
And the machine is bleeding to death
posted by anthill at 11:43 AM on October 21, 2007
The car's on fire and there's no driver at the wheel
And the sewers are all muddied with a thousand lonely suicides
And a dark wind blows
The government is corrupt
And we're on so many drugs
With the radio on and the curtains drawn
We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine
And the machine is bleeding to death
posted by anthill at 11:43 AM on October 21, 2007
For the optimistic, I'd nominate the Beatles, particularly Sgt Pepper.
What??? I'd nominate that as quite pessimistic, personally. Ditto Revolver. Although a few of the songs have happy endings, each of those endings is only happy relative to the absolute desperation in the meat of the song.
"What would you do if I sang out of tune? Would you stand up and walk out on me?" That's the definition of pessimism right there.
posted by Reggie Digest at 11:47 AM on October 21, 2007
What??? I'd nominate that as quite pessimistic, personally. Ditto Revolver. Although a few of the songs have happy endings, each of those endings is only happy relative to the absolute desperation in the meat of the song.
"What would you do if I sang out of tune? Would you stand up and walk out on me?" That's the definition of pessimism right there.
posted by Reggie Digest at 11:47 AM on October 21, 2007
Optimistic: Ode to Joy - particularly 4th movement choral part. .... soaring!
Pessimistic: Ave Maria, only because I've heard it at every funeral I've been to.
posted by culberjo at 11:57 AM on October 21, 2007
Pessimistic: Ave Maria, only because I've heard it at every funeral I've been to.
posted by culberjo at 11:57 AM on October 21, 2007
Nthing The Free Design as the happiest music ever made.
Stereolab took some cues from Free Design (even titling a track after them in 1999), and you can find really happy numbers on every record in their catalog.
For more pessimistic music, I'd reach for just about any cut on Big Star's Third/Sister-Lovers, Beck's elegiac Sea Change, or Lou Reed's Berlin.
posted by porn in the woods at 12:23 PM on October 21, 2007
Stereolab took some cues from Free Design (even titling a track after them in 1999), and you can find really happy numbers on every record in their catalog.
For more pessimistic music, I'd reach for just about any cut on Big Star's Third/Sister-Lovers, Beck's elegiac Sea Change, or Lou Reed's Berlin.
posted by porn in the woods at 12:23 PM on October 21, 2007
Pessimistic: Pink Floyd "Comfortably numb"
Optimistic: Scissor Sisters "Comfortably numb"
The most optimistic music genres are probably nursery rhymes and sports anthems.
posted by iviken at 12:53 PM on October 21, 2007
Optimistic: Scissor Sisters "Comfortably numb"
The most optimistic music genres are probably nursery rhymes and sports anthems.
posted by iviken at 12:53 PM on October 21, 2007
For optimistic, I'd nominate Louis Armstrong's "What a Wonderful World," and Lemon Jelly's "Tune for Jack."
posted by bricoleur at 1:27 PM on October 21, 2007
posted by bricoleur at 1:27 PM on October 21, 2007
Pessimistic:
Joy Division.
Swans 'God Damn the Sun'.
posted by Infinite Jest at 2:22 PM on October 21, 2007
Joy Division.
Swans 'God Damn the Sun'.
posted by Infinite Jest at 2:22 PM on October 21, 2007
The happiest music is by They Might be Giants.
Eh? You're kidding, right? Because their music is actually (or also) the saddest music there is.
posted by washburn at 3:49 PM on October 21, 2007
Eh? You're kidding, right? Because their music is actually (or also) the saddest music there is.
posted by washburn at 3:49 PM on October 21, 2007
Pessimistic: Joy Division.
To be precise: Love Will Tear Us Apart. (In contrast to their post-Curtis material, some of which makes me feel optimistic.)
Optimistic: "Oh What a Beautiful Morning" as well as the title tune from Oklahoma!
posted by Rash at 4:16 PM on October 21, 2007
To be precise: Love Will Tear Us Apart. (In contrast to their post-Curtis material, some of which makes me feel optimistic.)
Optimistic: "Oh What a Beautiful Morning" as well as the title tune from Oklahoma!
posted by Rash at 4:16 PM on October 21, 2007
i'm a big fan of the band/dude beirut right now, and i think his/their music covers a wide emotional range
optimistic: nantes from the new album 'flying club cup'. it is such a happy little song. i like to listen to it when i get dressed in the morning.
pessimistic:
gulag orkestar is pretty heavy. it makes me think of long marches through cold winter nights.
posted by chara at 4:51 PM on October 21, 2007
optimistic: nantes from the new album 'flying club cup'. it is such a happy little song. i like to listen to it when i get dressed in the morning.
pessimistic:
gulag orkestar is pretty heavy. it makes me think of long marches through cold winter nights.
posted by chara at 4:51 PM on October 21, 2007
Not necessarily optimistic, per se, but I listen to a lot of dance music because it is very upbeat and energetic. Moreso than just pop.
posted by IndigoRain at 4:53 PM on October 21, 2007
posted by IndigoRain at 4:53 PM on October 21, 2007
It's obscure and esoteric, but there is an improvisation in 17-tone well temperament by Hudson Lacerda which I find astoundingly melancholic. It can be heard here, at about 26:48 into the December 2006 podcast.
posted by Stove at 10:17 PM on October 21, 2007
posted by Stove at 10:17 PM on October 21, 2007
Here are some songs I think are sad:
Brian Eno - An Ending (Ascent)
Breathtakingly sad and beautiful, yes, but surely not pessimistic. I actually came on here to say that song makes me tremble, close my eyes and soar. It takes me to a peaceful place--like if I were dying, I could pass with a serene smile on my face. So... optimistic? God, that sounds so emo
posted by QueSeraSera at 11:04 PM on October 21, 2007
Brian Eno - An Ending (Ascent)
Breathtakingly sad and beautiful, yes, but surely not pessimistic. I actually came on here to say that song makes me tremble, close my eyes and soar. It takes me to a peaceful place--like if I were dying, I could pass with a serene smile on my face. So... optimistic? God, that sounds so emo
posted by QueSeraSera at 11:04 PM on October 21, 2007
That's the issue I brought up with the rest of my post. The most emotionally involving songs can often have differing effects on different people, and even different effects on the same person at different times.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 3:15 AM on October 22, 2007
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 3:15 AM on October 22, 2007
When I want to get that optimistic feeling...
Andreas Vollenweider
posted by dragonsi55 at 7:26 AM on October 22, 2007
Andreas Vollenweider
posted by dragonsi55 at 7:26 AM on October 22, 2007
Pessimism? My favorites are American Music Club and Waters-era Pink Floyd (esp. Animals).
posted by anthom at 9:33 AM on October 22, 2007
posted by anthom at 9:33 AM on October 22, 2007
Nth for Beethoven's Ninth for optimistic music. Mahler's Second is up there too.
Pessimistic is a lot harder - as others have noted in this thread, pessimistic is not the same as merely sad or depressing. I can name lots of extraordinarily sad or depressing music, from many genres, but I'm having a hard time coming up with supremely pessimistic music.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:58 AM on October 22, 2007
Pessimistic is a lot harder - as others have noted in this thread, pessimistic is not the same as merely sad or depressing. I can name lots of extraordinarily sad or depressing music, from many genres, but I'm having a hard time coming up with supremely pessimistic music.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:58 AM on October 22, 2007
I'm getting in on this late, but here goes:
Spinner did a countdown of the the 25 most equisitely sad songs in the whole world. (The Pernice Brothers' "Chicken Wire" was No. 1 - most of their stuff features pretty depressing lyrics over simply gorgeous melodies and orchestration.) For depression, there's nothing like Nick Drake's Pink Moon, or most of Elliott Smith's stuff. Anything in the sadcore genre - ida, Slowdive, Red House Painters - is also worth a listen.
My depressing playlist tends to be sorta bittersweet - "Have a Little Faith in Me," Radiohead/"High and Dry," Peter Gabriel's "Washing of the Water," and any acoustic Colin Hay.
For uplifting, my happy playlist consists of "That Thing You Do!", "Walking on Sunshine", "She Loves Me" by Stephen Duffy, "Minnesota" by the Push Stars, "I Can't Make it Alone" by Maria McKee, and the Nines' "I Would Never." Also nthing the Free Design.
posted by adverb at 1:02 PM on October 22, 2007
Spinner did a countdown of the the 25 most equisitely sad songs in the whole world. (The Pernice Brothers' "Chicken Wire" was No. 1 - most of their stuff features pretty depressing lyrics over simply gorgeous melodies and orchestration.) For depression, there's nothing like Nick Drake's Pink Moon, or most of Elliott Smith's stuff. Anything in the sadcore genre - ida, Slowdive, Red House Painters - is also worth a listen.
My depressing playlist tends to be sorta bittersweet - "Have a Little Faith in Me," Radiohead/"High and Dry," Peter Gabriel's "Washing of the Water," and any acoustic Colin Hay.
For uplifting, my happy playlist consists of "That Thing You Do!", "Walking on Sunshine", "She Loves Me" by Stephen Duffy, "Minnesota" by the Push Stars, "I Can't Make it Alone" by Maria McKee, and the Nines' "I Would Never." Also nthing the Free Design.
posted by adverb at 1:02 PM on October 22, 2007
Positive: Emerson, Lake & Palmer's version of Aaron Copeland's 'Fanfare For The Common Man'. It never fails to lift my spirits, every time. Darkest: Mussorgsky's 'Night On Bald Mountian', as seen in Disney's 'Fantasia'.
posted by Fferret at 1:28 PM on October 22, 2007
posted by Fferret at 1:28 PM on October 22, 2007
I'm trying hard to think of a song that's more optimistic than "Top of the World" by the Carpenters, or "Alright" by Supergrass.
As to your face-off competition, I really don't think optimism vs. pessimism is the right comparison. Perhaps uplifting versus depressing?
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 3:22 PM on October 22, 2007
As to your face-off competition, I really don't think optimism vs. pessimism is the right comparison. Perhaps uplifting versus depressing?
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 3:22 PM on October 22, 2007
I think the most directly pessimistic, rather than melancholy or sorrowful, songs I can think of are The Future and Everybody Knows by Leonard Cohen.
posted by ludwig_van at 4:19 PM on October 22, 2007
posted by ludwig_van at 4:19 PM on October 22, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
In general, I don't think you can say a genre is "optimistic" or pessimistic". Classic Blues has grim, grim lyrics, but great music. Punk generally sounds downbeat to me, but the lyrics can be love, drugs, all of life's finer things. Classical and Rap are all over the map.
posted by OlderThanTOS at 6:54 PM on October 20, 2007