Is there a hand-held devide I can use to program quickly and easily?

May 19, 2004 10:38 AM

I've never owned or used a palm-top or hand-held computer before, but I've always thought they were cool. Lately I've realized that what I really want is a hand-held commodore 64; in other words, a cute device with a keyboard, that I can whip out and program quickly and easily. The keyboard, and the ability to edit and run programs, are my two real criterion.

Does anyone know of a device (other than a PC laptop) that fills the bill?
posted by Emera Gratia to technology (21 comments total)

me too, and i have looked around for something a bit. trouble is that i start thinking "well, it needs to be able to connect to the net, if i want to share what i write and install things, and i want to be able to program in ml or haskell, which means running linux or windows since compilers only exist on those platforms, and i want..." which gets you back to the l-word.

the old psion 5 (i think) palmtop things had a nice keyboard and you could get python running on them. that was the best i could find at the time (didn't get one).
posted by andrew cooke at 10:46 AM on May 19, 2004

I think the Sony CLIÉ is about the closest you'll get...
posted by esch at 11:09 AM on May 19, 2004

The old Sony Picturebooks are quite small and they are just regular laptops. They have been discontinued so I'll bet there are some deals out there (avg around 400-500 on ebay). Here someone put linux on one. There are also a few other mini-laptops from (I think) toshiba (the libretto) Compaq, (the evo) and a few others.
posted by milovoo at 11:14 AM on May 19, 2004

This article from yesterday's slashdot might be helpful for the keyboard part of your question.

Sounds to me like you want a pda with keyboard. As far as programming goes, you can install some versions of linux on some PDAs (for example, iPaqs.) I'm sure you can do some form of programming on the ones running MS OSes as well. I know you can program for the Palm, but I'm not sure if you can (or if you'd want to) do it ON the palm.
posted by callmejay at 11:14 AM on May 19, 2004

I have one of these, which is pretty cool. I had one of these, but lost it at some point. Just found/bid on one on ebay. The pc-6 is better in pretty much every way (except the keyboard), but the pc-8 has some nostalgia for me. </geek> They're both far too small for anything resembling touch typing. I used to type with my thumbs on the pc-8, and with my index fingers on the pc-6. They both know basic (look at the sexy shortcut keys on the pc-6), and the pc-6 has some kind of assemby language thing that I never got into. The pc-6 also has the ever-popular bulll-shit key right there next to 'stop'. The pc-8, iirc, can only have one program stored at a time.. but you could 'run' from any line number.. so you could write a few programs that all end gracefully, and just do "run 160" to run the program that starts at line 160. the pc-6 can have 10 programs, 0 through 9.
posted by duckstab at 11:14 AM on May 19, 2004

Oh, and I guess I mentally group sub-laptops as different than laptops. Feel free to ignore if that's not helpful.
posted by milovoo at 11:21 AM on May 19, 2004

Oh, and also a Zaurus sl-5500d (the "D" version was the same as the normal version, except it was a pre-release developers version with only half as much ram and crappier battery life). Thats likely more what you're looking for. Runs linux, has java, CF slot for wifi, has a decent thumb-keyboard. If you're willing to spend too much for what is probably just a toy, you can get a very cool japanese one from dynamism.com
posted by duckstab at 11:23 AM on May 19, 2004

If you've got some bucks, the Samsung Nexio S160. (I'm assuming someone offers a BASIC or something for Windows CE .Net. It seems inevitable.) By "some bucks" I mean $1300+ including the keyboard.
posted by kindall at 11:34 AM on May 19, 2004

If you allow for a non built-in keyboard like any of these, then either a Pocket PC or a Palm will work. But you have to be more clear first about what language(s) you want to program in. For example, there's Python for the Pocket PC, but so far it only works for handhelds based on the ARM processor.

Good luck!!!
posted by Stoatfarm at 11:38 AM on May 19, 2004

The iPaq H4355 comes with a keyboard.

As a Pocket PC, you can do quite a few things with it, including making it a C64.

If you program in C, you can use this to write small C programs on the Pocket PC, and it comes with a compiler.

With the Compact .NET Framework installed, you can run .NET apps as well, though I don't know if there is a Pocket PC editor and compiler (I've only used this programming and compiling on a desktop then copying the EXE over to the PDA).
posted by linux at 11:38 AM on May 19, 2004

By the way, I have the H4155, which is basically the H4355 without a keyboard, and it is a lovely little handheld. I especially like the part about it coming with internal WiFi and Bluetooth, leaving my SDIO slot free for actual devices versus giving me more "comm ports".
posted by linux at 11:41 AM on May 19, 2004

The company I work for (referenced upthread) offers the Zaurus (Linux) in two versions. If you are looking for something windows based, you can look at the Nexio, but we only have demo units left as the S160 has been discontinued to make way for the XP30, which is coming out in late summer. However, the keyboard on the Nexio is detachable and you can't just walk down the street typing on it -- it needs to be resting on something, else it is very awkward.

I think from what you need, the Zaurus would be the best, as long as you are comfortable with Linux. Let me know if you have any further questions -- I am more than happy to help. :D
posted by sugarfish at 12:01 PM on May 19, 2004

I'm going to second (on preview: third) the suggestion of a Zaurus. Don't get a 5500 though...it's a development unit, yeah, but it's also the oldest of the modern Zaurii. The 5600 is a bit better, and I was able to pick one up on Amazon last winter for $299. The 6000 is the new one, but it's reallly expensive and directed at corporate customers. Then there are the ultra-cool clamshell ones from Japan which you can buy at Dynamism. The clamshells and 6000 have true VGA screens by the same company that does the one on the Gameboy Advance SP. Still really overpriced though.

A Zaurus runs on QTopia (yes, as in QT), made by Trolltech. They ship with a Sharp-stamped version, but you can find open source replacements (Opie) that forked off the development tree. Sharp used to have a very active development forum for the Zaurus, but that disappeared recently, so the big action spot is zaurususergroup.org.

The 5600 doesn't come with WiFi and unlike the clamshells or 6000 doesn't have a usb port, but it has both compact flash and sd (no sdio unfortunately). A cheap CF wifi card (it's great for warwalking), you've got all the connectivity you could ever want. Telnet, ssh, ftp, http, hell you can even run VNC and VLC on the thing. The slide out keyboard isn't quite as good as the one on the Treo, but it works better than it looks.

I really think the Zaurus was designed to be exactly what you want. I remember reading all the reviews before making my purchase in January, and the idea that it was a geek toy to program on the go was expressed in all of them.
posted by jbrjake at 12:07 PM on May 19, 2004

Wow, thanks for all the feedback! I think those Psion 5/Revo units are the most attractive to me, in terms of shape and form.

I'm a Windows C++ coder, making games all the time, but I'm not scared of linux, simbian, or other OSs. I'm fine with a command line.

Now I just have to dig up the money for one of these devices. :)
posted by Emera Gratia at 12:09 PM on May 19, 2004

Get a Palm OS device with a keyboard -- such as the Tungsten C -- and then load a Commodore C64 emulator. All your specs will be met. (Though the Apple IIe emulator is of course a better choice).

Leaving emulation aside, there are all sorts of on-board compilers and interpreters for Palm, such as OnBoard C, Pocket C, and Quartus Forth.
posted by profwhat at 12:16 PM on May 19, 2004

I've been waiting patiently for the oqo. Latest projected release date - Fall 2004.
posted by grateful at 12:53 PM on May 19, 2004

grateful, sony beat them to it
posted by duckstab at 2:19 PM on May 19, 2004

oqo's got a built-in keyboard, however. That Vaio looks inelegant, what with the mass of wires and the full-size keyboard you can't fit in your pocket and all.. actually, I doubt you could fit that in your pocket.
posted by linux at 3:30 PM on May 19, 2004

I think it will be too big to fit in your pocket, linux, but then so is the Nexio (they are going to be roughly the same size, I think)

It does have a touchscreen however, so you don't necessarily have to have all of the accessories, though it will come with a pouch to hold them. I saw a great video demonstrating the touchscreen capabilities, and I can say that you will probably not need to have all of the stuff with you constantly. This form factor really is a different direction from the U series, which up to now was built more like the new Sharp Mebius Muramasa. (So if you want a tiny Windows box with a built-in keyboard you might want to check that one out.)
posted by sugarfish at 5:56 PM on May 19, 2004

I think what you really want is a Texas Instruments graphing calculator ( )

It'll let you program in Assembler or BASIC or whatever it uses and I think they're pretty cheap. I've got a TI-83+ but it was a handmedown.
posted by Evstar at 8:29 PM on May 19, 2004

But it doesn't have the TYPEWRITER configuration, but some ABCDEFG thing that discourage cheating on tests (barely) but is somewhat annoying when you actually want to enter things into the calculator. Try a TI-92 instead.
posted by calwatch at 10:59 PM on May 19, 2004