Getting Used to Dating and Sex with a Changed Physique
July 21, 2007 3:02 PM Subscribe
I have a question to ask of heterosexual women on Metafilter: are you as shallow as I am?
Do you find overweight men attractive?
I'm a few years out of college in my late twenties with a BMI of 45. I'm not Brad Pitt or George Clooney, but I'm tall; I have a friendly, open, and expressive face; I'm well-read and can hold my end of a convo down pretty well; and I have a decent job that's not a huge moneymaker (no doctor be I) but puts me on the low to middlin' end of "comfortable."
I know I need to get back down to "normal." I'm working on it now, and I do think I'll get there. But I did enough damage to myself (read: gained enough weight) that it's not going to be an instantaneous process (read: probably a good year or two), and frankly, I have no desire to be a monk in the meantime. But I'm finding that some preconceptions and a weird sense of body dysmorphia are dealing a rather severe blow to my confidence. I've not been on the dating scene in a good number of years: my last girl and I didn't break up due to my weight, but the last time I was dating, I was 'normal', and this time, I'm on the scene with a physique that has gone to pot more than a tad.
I wish to God that I could divorce physical attributes from my sexual attraction to someone. Right now, I can't seem to do that, and, as such, I find women who are equally as overweight as I am to be unattractive, and I have no interest at all in them as other than friends, as much as I'd like to be gallant enough to do so. Now, to clarify, I'm not saddled with an unrealistic attraction to stick-thin Paris Hiltons — I am attracted to utterly normal women (frankly, most of y'all out there look pretty damn hawt to me), and I do find attractive women who are curvy or who lean a bit towards the Rubenesque; I'm just saying that the end of the scale where pre-weight-loss Star Jones was, or Roseanne-during-Roseanne, or Edna Turnblatt, wouldn't have done it for me.
And, unfortunately, I'm on the equivalent end of the male scale of where pre-weight-loss Star Jones was. (Award for the most convoluted sentence goes to ... ) I'm John Goodman-in-Roseanne-esque. And knowing that I can't find myself attracted to Star, or Roseanne, or Edna, or women carrying around a similar amount of weight, I find it very hard — in fact, outright impossible — to believe that a woman could look at me, or anyone with my body type, and find her sexual engine getting a little revved up, like a few did here and there with my old physique. Even though my brain knows that supposedly women judge on different criteria, I also know Clooney and Pitt don't sell movies just because they're good actors. So I'm hoping that perhaps the women of Mefi could either say, "Yes, you're right, you're just not sexy at this point, lardass," so I can stop wondering and start getting used to cold showers, or "No, you're not. I know from personal experience that ... " and share, well, what they feel comfortable.
I also know enough to know that women respond to confidence, and that a lack of confidence can show pretty clearly unless you're a good actor. That's another concern, obviously, I'm hoping to address with this question. If I can end up with enough material to quiet the voice in my head — "shut up, you, four out of five Mefite women prefer peppermint mouthwash" — maybe I can actually focus on the other things that terrify me about starting to going up to strange women again, instead of walking into the situation feeling like I'm wearing a strange-fitting fat suit. :-/
Finally, I have one last question. It is more than a bit on the graphic side, and I'll admit it is very likely thinking too far ahead. It's a question central to men's sense of "maleness," for good or for bad. A well-intentioned friend who I could now just friggin' hit over the head with a Nerf bat forwarded me an e-mail forward quoting Dr. Ruth as saying that men "lose" an inch for every 40 pounds gained. Anyone know if that's really the case? It does indeed feel like it's shrunk. And there definitely is also a visual comparative scale thing given that the man's gut hangs above his penis. If you have had an overweight sexual partner, were you satisfied with his length? Flaccid at the moment, it's visually really rather embarrassingly minuscule — and I think my outright nightmare is disrobing in front of a lady and having a woman laugh at its size. Erect, it's still probably a good four and a half inches, but that's definitely less than it used to be; I remember measuring myself in college at about near seven. It's perhaps the very definition of the word "emasculating."
P.S. Obviously, I come across in the above as a bit of a nutcase. That's because I'm cranking down about twelve layers of shielding and actually being quite blunt about the problem with you. Please rest assured that these insecurities are not out and displayed in full force during a date!
I'm a few years out of college in my late twenties with a BMI of 45. I'm not Brad Pitt or George Clooney, but I'm tall; I have a friendly, open, and expressive face; I'm well-read and can hold my end of a convo down pretty well; and I have a decent job that's not a huge moneymaker (no doctor be I) but puts me on the low to middlin' end of "comfortable."
I know I need to get back down to "normal." I'm working on it now, and I do think I'll get there. But I did enough damage to myself (read: gained enough weight) that it's not going to be an instantaneous process (read: probably a good year or two), and frankly, I have no desire to be a monk in the meantime. But I'm finding that some preconceptions and a weird sense of body dysmorphia are dealing a rather severe blow to my confidence. I've not been on the dating scene in a good number of years: my last girl and I didn't break up due to my weight, but the last time I was dating, I was 'normal', and this time, I'm on the scene with a physique that has gone to pot more than a tad.
I wish to God that I could divorce physical attributes from my sexual attraction to someone. Right now, I can't seem to do that, and, as such, I find women who are equally as overweight as I am to be unattractive, and I have no interest at all in them as other than friends, as much as I'd like to be gallant enough to do so. Now, to clarify, I'm not saddled with an unrealistic attraction to stick-thin Paris Hiltons — I am attracted to utterly normal women (frankly, most of y'all out there look pretty damn hawt to me), and I do find attractive women who are curvy or who lean a bit towards the Rubenesque; I'm just saying that the end of the scale where pre-weight-loss Star Jones was, or Roseanne-during-Roseanne, or Edna Turnblatt, wouldn't have done it for me.
And, unfortunately, I'm on the equivalent end of the male scale of where pre-weight-loss Star Jones was. (Award for the most convoluted sentence goes to ... ) I'm John Goodman-in-Roseanne-esque. And knowing that I can't find myself attracted to Star, or Roseanne, or Edna, or women carrying around a similar amount of weight, I find it very hard — in fact, outright impossible — to believe that a woman could look at me, or anyone with my body type, and find her sexual engine getting a little revved up, like a few did here and there with my old physique. Even though my brain knows that supposedly women judge on different criteria, I also know Clooney and Pitt don't sell movies just because they're good actors. So I'm hoping that perhaps the women of Mefi could either say, "Yes, you're right, you're just not sexy at this point, lardass," so I can stop wondering and start getting used to cold showers, or "No, you're not. I know from personal experience that ... " and share, well, what they feel comfortable.
I also know enough to know that women respond to confidence, and that a lack of confidence can show pretty clearly unless you're a good actor. That's another concern, obviously, I'm hoping to address with this question. If I can end up with enough material to quiet the voice in my head — "shut up, you, four out of five Mefite women prefer peppermint mouthwash" — maybe I can actually focus on the other things that terrify me about starting to going up to strange women again, instead of walking into the situation feeling like I'm wearing a strange-fitting fat suit. :-/
Finally, I have one last question. It is more than a bit on the graphic side, and I'll admit it is very likely thinking too far ahead. It's a question central to men's sense of "maleness," for good or for bad. A well-intentioned friend who I could now just friggin' hit over the head with a Nerf bat forwarded me an e-mail forward quoting Dr. Ruth as saying that men "lose" an inch for every 40 pounds gained. Anyone know if that's really the case? It does indeed feel like it's shrunk. And there definitely is also a visual comparative scale thing given that the man's gut hangs above his penis. If you have had an overweight sexual partner, were you satisfied with his length? Flaccid at the moment, it's visually really rather embarrassingly minuscule — and I think my outright nightmare is disrobing in front of a lady and having a woman laugh at its size. Erect, it's still probably a good four and a half inches, but that's definitely less than it used to be; I remember measuring myself in college at about near seven. It's perhaps the very definition of the word "emasculating."
P.S. Obviously, I come across in the above as a bit of a nutcase. That's because I'm cranking down about twelve layers of shielding and actually being quite blunt about the problem with you. Please rest assured that these insecurities are not out and displayed in full force during a date!
I am not a woman but felt like pitching a quick op in here: you are not shallow because of being attracted to one thing or another, you are being elitist. it's perfectly okay to seek certain qualities in your significant other. if one happens to be their appearance, so be it. shallow is expecting something from another person that you yourself cannot live up to.
read: probably a good year or two
that's a low estimate. BMI 45 is significant. a daily 90-minute workout routine combined with a diet will get you there in two but the most intense struggle is breaking habits. still - it get's easier with time as you establish new habits and random people start commenting on changes you might not yet see yourself. you will think they're full of it and then you find an old picture of yourself and realize they're right.
saying that men "lose" an inch for every 40 pounds gained.
now that meets my threshold for shallow. having lost more than 120lbs., I can assure you this is not true. what is true however is that you are just surrounded by a lot more mass when significantly overweight, that it will make certain positions impossible to get into and that getting this-there will end up a lot more taxing.
posted by krautland at 3:23 PM on July 21, 2007
read: probably a good year or two
that's a low estimate. BMI 45 is significant. a daily 90-minute workout routine combined with a diet will get you there in two but the most intense struggle is breaking habits. still - it get's easier with time as you establish new habits and random people start commenting on changes you might not yet see yourself. you will think they're full of it and then you find an old picture of yourself and realize they're right.
saying that men "lose" an inch for every 40 pounds gained.
now that meets my threshold for shallow. having lost more than 120lbs., I can assure you this is not true. what is true however is that you are just surrounded by a lot more mass when significantly overweight, that it will make certain positions impossible to get into and that getting this-there will end up a lot more taxing.
posted by krautland at 3:23 PM on July 21, 2007
Honestly, I don't really find overweight men attractive. But I know a lot of women who do, or don't care, or prefer them. One of the guys I know who is the biggest 'player' in terms of getting dates is quite overweight. One of my best friends, who is tiny, just married a guy literally twice her weight and over a foot taller. She says she loves the feeling of how big he is compared to her. Personally, I have always had relationships with men about my height and weight (I'm pretty tall and thin FWIW).
I think you know the answer, which is that your confidence and self-esteem is the real issue. None of this stuff has a whole heck of a lot to do with shallowness, or elitism, or anything. It has to do with respecting yourself enough to know that some people will find you attractive; some won't, but that you're a good guy and worthy of respect regardless.
posted by miss tea at 3:36 PM on July 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
I think you know the answer, which is that your confidence and self-esteem is the real issue. None of this stuff has a whole heck of a lot to do with shallowness, or elitism, or anything. It has to do with respecting yourself enough to know that some people will find you attractive; some won't, but that you're a good guy and worthy of respect regardless.
posted by miss tea at 3:36 PM on July 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
The question you're really asking is whether fit women would find you attractive, since you say yourself that you're not interested in overweight women. Honestly? Most of them probably wouldn't be, for the same reasons you don't find women your size to be attractive. This is not to say at all that no woman would find you attractive, or even that no conventionally attractive woman would; just as I'm sure that you can imagine a personality that you could fall in love with no matter what body it's attached to. It's just that people who place priority on conventional attractiveness tend to seek a kind of attractiveness parity when looking for potential mates, and if you expect a woman to be intelligent and funny and (etc.) and slim on top of all that, then why shouldn't she expect the same of you?
But I don't know if "can I still bag a hot girl" is the question you really want to ask. It seems to me that you're the kind of laid-back down-to-earth guy who would rather eschew the club scene and get to know a girl from, say, a class he's taking or a book club or something - a context where the personalities of both parties would play a lot bigger role in the equation. Of course you're not attracted to Star Jones or Roseanne. They're bigger, yes, but they're also kind of annoying. If your question really is, as I suspect, "can I still attract a girl that I'm attracted to?" then my answer is yes, probably. Because I think when you get out there again you'll remember that attraction is not purely based on physical appearance, but rather more mutual things like chemistry and interests in common, and things like her face and smile - things that don't occur to you right now because they're all abstract at this point.
So, yes, work on getting back in shape (there's a MeFi group on Sparkpeople if you're interested), because it will do wonders for your confidence and energy and all those good things. And no, you don't have to resign yourself to celibacy in the meantime. But give your potential girlfriends the benefit of the same open-mindedness that they're giving you - in real life, with real people, it's not as hard as it seems.
And penis size: oh, anon, please don't worry. Maybe there's a little extra cushioning around the base that's making it appear shorter, but please listen to me when I say that the size of your penis does not matter. It doesn't make sex feel any better to have your cervix pounded; in fact it kind of hurts. Be an attentive lover, and you can be confident that you're going to satisfy women better than many many of the other guys out there.
posted by AV at 3:56 PM on July 21, 2007 [2 favorites]
But I don't know if "can I still bag a hot girl" is the question you really want to ask. It seems to me that you're the kind of laid-back down-to-earth guy who would rather eschew the club scene and get to know a girl from, say, a class he's taking or a book club or something - a context where the personalities of both parties would play a lot bigger role in the equation. Of course you're not attracted to Star Jones or Roseanne. They're bigger, yes, but they're also kind of annoying. If your question really is, as I suspect, "can I still attract a girl that I'm attracted to?" then my answer is yes, probably. Because I think when you get out there again you'll remember that attraction is not purely based on physical appearance, but rather more mutual things like chemistry and interests in common, and things like her face and smile - things that don't occur to you right now because they're all abstract at this point.
So, yes, work on getting back in shape (there's a MeFi group on Sparkpeople if you're interested), because it will do wonders for your confidence and energy and all those good things. And no, you don't have to resign yourself to celibacy in the meantime. But give your potential girlfriends the benefit of the same open-mindedness that they're giving you - in real life, with real people, it's not as hard as it seems.
And penis size: oh, anon, please don't worry. Maybe there's a little extra cushioning around the base that's making it appear shorter, but please listen to me when I say that the size of your penis does not matter. It doesn't make sex feel any better to have your cervix pounded; in fact it kind of hurts. Be an attentive lover, and you can be confident that you're going to satisfy women better than many many of the other guys out there.
posted by AV at 3:56 PM on July 21, 2007 [2 favorites]
I don't think you have too much to worry about, honestly. If you're going to worry about your weight, worry about it for health reasons, not for dating reasons.
I'm a normal-sized girl, and I've noticed that weight has little to do with my preferences in men. One of the sexiest guys I've been with weighed over 250 lbs. On the flipside, there have been plenty of men that I've met, that have been his same size and shape, that I haven't been attracted to at all. I have normal-sized female friends who feel the same way. In general, I don't think being overweight is as much of a turn-off for girls as it is for guys.
Oh, and the penis size issue? I don't think this could possibly be true. It certainly wasn't, in my experience.
I also don't think you should feel guilty for not being attracted to fat women. I can understand where the guilt comes from, but I don't believe we have much control over what we find sexy or not-sexy. Personally, I've never been attracted to men with facial hair. I don't know why, it seems kind of silly to me, but that's where my sexual tastes draw the line for some reason. We're allowed to be a bit picky when picking our mates.
posted by Squee at 4:10 PM on July 21, 2007
I'm a normal-sized girl, and I've noticed that weight has little to do with my preferences in men. One of the sexiest guys I've been with weighed over 250 lbs. On the flipside, there have been plenty of men that I've met, that have been his same size and shape, that I haven't been attracted to at all. I have normal-sized female friends who feel the same way. In general, I don't think being overweight is as much of a turn-off for girls as it is for guys.
Oh, and the penis size issue? I don't think this could possibly be true. It certainly wasn't, in my experience.
I also don't think you should feel guilty for not being attracted to fat women. I can understand where the guilt comes from, but I don't believe we have much control over what we find sexy or not-sexy. Personally, I've never been attracted to men with facial hair. I don't know why, it seems kind of silly to me, but that's where my sexual tastes draw the line for some reason. We're allowed to be a bit picky when picking our mates.
posted by Squee at 4:10 PM on July 21, 2007
It's just that people who place priority on conventional attractiveness tend to seek a kind of attractiveness parity when looking for potential mates, and if you expect a woman to be intelligent and funny and (etc.) and slim on top of all that, then why shouldn't she expect the same of you?
Because not everyone equates "thin" and "attractive," that's why.
Besides, not everyone who works out is fixated on their appearance. Some people are just into fitness. It sounds like the poster's getting interested in fitness himself — after all, he's working on losing weight. I see no reason why he can't have a lovely relationship with a woman (of whatever size) who shares that interest.
In fact — hey, anonymous! Look at it this way. Now that you're eating healthy and working out, you and those hot chicks at the gym have one more thing in common.
posted by nebulawindphone at 4:19 PM on July 21, 2007
Because not everyone equates "thin" and "attractive," that's why.
Besides, not everyone who works out is fixated on their appearance. Some people are just into fitness. It sounds like the poster's getting interested in fitness himself — after all, he's working on losing weight. I see no reason why he can't have a lovely relationship with a woman (of whatever size) who shares that interest.
In fact — hey, anonymous! Look at it this way. Now that you're eating healthy and working out, you and those hot chicks at the gym have one more thing in common.
posted by nebulawindphone at 4:19 PM on July 21, 2007
Because not everyone equates "thin" and "attractive," that's why.
Of course - that's why I qualified my statement with "people who place priority on conventional attractiveness." The convention of attractiveness in western society is for people to be fit.
I get what you're saying, but you kind of took my comment out of context. My point was that while in general, women who are themselves in shape are less attracted to overweight men (because that was the question anon asked) but that it doesn't mean that the particular person anon finds himself attracted to -- whatever she looks like -- will not be attracted to him.
posted by AV at 4:53 PM on July 21, 2007
Of course - that's why I qualified my statement with "people who place priority on conventional attractiveness." The convention of attractiveness in western society is for people to be fit.
I get what you're saying, but you kind of took my comment out of context. My point was that while in general, women who are themselves in shape are less attracted to overweight men (because that was the question anon asked) but that it doesn't mean that the particular person anon finds himself attracted to -- whatever she looks like -- will not be attracted to him.
posted by AV at 4:53 PM on July 21, 2007
If you have had an overweight sexual partner, were you satisfied with his length?
Yes, and what you've been told about losing an inch is bullshit. But seriously, listen to me when I say this: women are not as obsessed with the size of a penis as you think we are. (If I had to choose a size, I'm quite happy with average - which is 4 to 7 inches in my experience - it's easier on the jaw).
Further to that I also think women are less discriminatory about how men look compared to the other way around - I know loads of people (men and women, myself included) that have dated big guys. Big, thick, beer bellied guys - hairy too! It can be very attractive to some people, because it's an exaggerated form of masculinity. If you're not wheezing and sweating all over the place, you're providing a solid, protective form. That is reassuring.
I reckon you'll be OK about it eventually, maybe when you drop a little weight and gain some confidence. The important thing is to focus on the fact that you will always be attractive to someone because of your whole self (mind included) than unattractive to someone because of your gut. I wish you all the luck in the world!
posted by saturnine at 4:54 PM on July 21, 2007
Yes, and what you've been told about losing an inch is bullshit. But seriously, listen to me when I say this: women are not as obsessed with the size of a penis as you think we are. (If I had to choose a size, I'm quite happy with average - which is 4 to 7 inches in my experience - it's easier on the jaw).
Further to that I also think women are less discriminatory about how men look compared to the other way around - I know loads of people (men and women, myself included) that have dated big guys. Big, thick, beer bellied guys - hairy too! It can be very attractive to some people, because it's an exaggerated form of masculinity. If you're not wheezing and sweating all over the place, you're providing a solid, protective form. That is reassuring.
I reckon you'll be OK about it eventually, maybe when you drop a little weight and gain some confidence. The important thing is to focus on the fact that you will always be attractive to someone because of your whole self (mind included) than unattractive to someone because of your gut. I wish you all the luck in the world!
posted by saturnine at 4:54 PM on July 21, 2007
Fellow straight guy here and I think I know what you're going through. Just about every man (unless he's as handsome as Adonis or confident to the point of narcissism) sometimes gets into this headset where he thinks he's giving off some secret signal saying "I am not worthy of female attention because I'm too fat/skinny/gawky/awkward/weird." I've been there myself. It's all in your head. Just keep trying, some girl will dig you. And don't try to figure out why, you'll just make yourself crazy.
As far as losing weight, if you want to do it for health reasons or your own satisfaction, you go for it, dude. But don't do it as some kind of miracle attraction thing, since that'll just make you crazy.
posted by jonmc at 4:54 PM on July 21, 2007
As far as losing weight, if you want to do it for health reasons or your own satisfaction, you go for it, dude. But don't do it as some kind of miracle attraction thing, since that'll just make you crazy.
posted by jonmc at 4:54 PM on July 21, 2007
I get what you're saying, but you kind of took my comment out of context. My point was that while in general, women who are themselves in shape are less attracted to overweight men (because that was the question anon asked) but that it doesn't mean that the particular person anon finds himself attracted to -- whatever she looks like -- will not be attracted to him.
Sure enough, I'd missed the second half of your point. Sorry about that.
posted by nebulawindphone at 4:56 PM on July 21, 2007
Sure enough, I'd missed the second half of your point. Sorry about that.
posted by nebulawindphone at 4:56 PM on July 21, 2007
One of my friends once placed a personal ad saying that he was an overweight, unemployed, married Mexican. He posted a picture, and he got thirty responses in the space of week. In a very superficial city in the South, where appearance means a lot. But goddamn, he could write.
Weight doesn't mean anything when it's balanced against equal weight in other areas.
posted by digitalis at 5:03 PM on July 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
Weight doesn't mean anything when it's balanced against equal weight in other areas.
posted by digitalis at 5:03 PM on July 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
Further to that I also think women are less discriminatory about how men look compared to the other way around - I know loads of people (men and women, myself included) that have dated big guys.
There's a section (not a chapter) on personal ads in Freakonomics that touches on this. You might find it interesting.
posted by digitalis at 5:12 PM on July 21, 2007
There's a section (not a chapter) on personal ads in Freakonomics that touches on this. You might find it interesting.
posted by digitalis at 5:12 PM on July 21, 2007
Dr. Mehmet Oz, co-author of You: On a Diet, put the lose-weight-gain-penis-size idea out there on an Oprah Winfrey show. I can't remember the exact pounds/inches ratio but you might try googling it if you really care.
posted by Pigpen at 5:44 PM on July 21, 2007
posted by Pigpen at 5:44 PM on July 21, 2007
On the penis issue: my experience was that a combination of being overweight and having bad posture made the old fellow draw into my body more than it used to. The problem wasn't just the extra pad of gut fat: I was all but sitting on my coccyx most of the time, with my pelvis pointing up. Working on both of those things made for more dangle to the dingle.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 6:14 PM on July 21, 2007
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 6:14 PM on July 21, 2007
nebulawindphone - eah, my point could have used some clarification anyways. no biggie.
posted by AV at 6:34 PM on July 21, 2007
posted by AV at 6:34 PM on July 21, 2007
Learn to dance.
I mean that, but there's more to things. I've basically been there done that as far as your situation. I dropped from a BMI of about 41 to 23 over a year and a half, and though things bobbed and weaved a bit, I've held it together for, jeez what is it, 6 or 7 years? So yes, major and persistent changes are possible, and worth the effort. Go for it, man!
The sucky part is that what it takes to lose the weight is frequently at odds with having a social/dating life. Blocking time out of your schedule for exercise is one aspect, another is that so goddamn many social functions involve food and/or booze (with the booze frequently leading to more eating...). It's kind of a cruel joke that part of your motivation is social, but social activity can work against reaching your goal! boo. You may just have to view your time and effort during your weight loss period as an investment and wait for the payoff to come later. It does come!
So if you're not yet ready for the investment mindset, learn to dance. No woman was ever turned off by their man being too good a dancer, and very little dancing is done with a plate of cheese fries in one hand.
For social mindset and confidence issues with new people (and old), try keeping just two words in mind like a little mantra: "engage" and "welcome". In your head, keep saying those two words to yourself over and over again, with "engage" being what you do, and "welcome" being the tone you do it with. "Engage" means to always be looking for and using the opportunity make a social connection with someone (new). As for "welcome", that's the sense you want to project. Everybody wants to be welcomed, and the trick is that you can always give that feeling, even when you're not in a situation where a welcome would normally thought of as yours to give. Everybody has welcomed someone into their space, and that is the tone and attitude you want to project while engaging, even if you're not in your space. Those two words can go a long way to helping you project the kind of social confidence you're aiming for. (and losing the weight doesn't get rid of the need to be able to project those positive things!)
posted by NortonDC at 6:54 PM on July 21, 2007 [3 favorites]
I mean that, but there's more to things. I've basically been there done that as far as your situation. I dropped from a BMI of about 41 to 23 over a year and a half, and though things bobbed and weaved a bit, I've held it together for, jeez what is it, 6 or 7 years? So yes, major and persistent changes are possible, and worth the effort. Go for it, man!
The sucky part is that what it takes to lose the weight is frequently at odds with having a social/dating life. Blocking time out of your schedule for exercise is one aspect, another is that so goddamn many social functions involve food and/or booze (with the booze frequently leading to more eating...). It's kind of a cruel joke that part of your motivation is social, but social activity can work against reaching your goal! boo. You may just have to view your time and effort during your weight loss period as an investment and wait for the payoff to come later. It does come!
So if you're not yet ready for the investment mindset, learn to dance. No woman was ever turned off by their man being too good a dancer, and very little dancing is done with a plate of cheese fries in one hand.
For social mindset and confidence issues with new people (and old), try keeping just two words in mind like a little mantra: "engage" and "welcome". In your head, keep saying those two words to yourself over and over again, with "engage" being what you do, and "welcome" being the tone you do it with. "Engage" means to always be looking for and using the opportunity make a social connection with someone (new). As for "welcome", that's the sense you want to project. Everybody wants to be welcomed, and the trick is that you can always give that feeling, even when you're not in a situation where a welcome would normally thought of as yours to give. Everybody has welcomed someone into their space, and that is the tone and attitude you want to project while engaging, even if you're not in your space. Those two words can go a long way to helping you project the kind of social confidence you're aiming for. (and losing the weight doesn't get rid of the need to be able to project those positive things!)
posted by NortonDC at 6:54 PM on July 21, 2007 [3 favorites]
Data point here: No, weight is really not an issue. Neither is penis size. Neither is the two together. Some of the best sex I've had was with a really overweight man. While the first time was logistically a little different (I'm a very tiny person, and he wasn't) and getting used to the idea was also an adjustment (this was a new experience), when it came down to it, I really didn't give a shit. And not in a "I'm not going to notice these parts" sort of way, but in a "WOW! Everything about this person is new/different/interesting/unique. Yes, I'll take it all! Show me more!" If someone's into you, they're into you.
Another thing to note though...sometimes people don't know they're into something until they try it. And being pleasantly (or intensely orgasmically) surprised by somebody in an unconventional package is pretty hot in itself. It's kind of blindsiding and exciting and all that. You wield this power. You just don't know it.
*I'm also fit and untrollesque
posted by iamkimiam at 7:10 PM on July 21, 2007 [3 favorites]
Another thing to note though...sometimes people don't know they're into something until they try it. And being pleasantly (or intensely orgasmically) surprised by somebody in an unconventional package is pretty hot in itself. It's kind of blindsiding and exciting and all that. You wield this power. You just don't know it.
*I'm also fit and untrollesque
posted by iamkimiam at 7:10 PM on July 21, 2007 [3 favorites]
I'm a woman who's on the upper end of average, weight-wise. My husband says he's overweight. I think he's as hot as hell and I'm immensely attracted to him. I've also dated other guys in the past - average, overweight, and super-thin - that I've been attracted to. So yes, it can happen.
However, in my case, I'm often attracted to another aspect of a man first...I'm much more likely to be initially attracted by intelligence or a sense of humor than great abs. Eventually, though, this seems to generalize into overall sexual attraction. I'm not sure if that makes sense, or if other women are the same way. But yes, I for one can be attracted to an overweight guy.
posted by christinetheslp at 7:15 PM on July 21, 2007
However, in my case, I'm often attracted to another aspect of a man first...I'm much more likely to be initially attracted by intelligence or a sense of humor than great abs. Eventually, though, this seems to generalize into overall sexual attraction. I'm not sure if that makes sense, or if other women are the same way. But yes, I for one can be attracted to an overweight guy.
posted by christinetheslp at 7:15 PM on July 21, 2007
In all honesty, no, I would not be attracted to you. I like a burly man but not a fat one. Sorry if that's harsh!
As far as size, maybe it refers to "effective size" since there would be some amount of belly interference.
Don't worry, losing weight is even fun once you get going - new clothes, possibilities, positive feedback... and I think men have lots of success in a short period of time too.
posted by MiffyCLB at 7:20 PM on July 21, 2007
As far as size, maybe it refers to "effective size" since there would be some amount of belly interference.
Don't worry, losing weight is even fun once you get going - new clothes, possibilities, positive feedback... and I think men have lots of success in a short period of time too.
posted by MiffyCLB at 7:20 PM on July 21, 2007
I'm about 15 -20 pounds overweight, and i don't find men who are 20 pounds overweight attractive. (I definitely consider that a problem!) So I am as equally unfairly superficial as you.
My cousin on the other hand, is a teeny, cute little person, who used to be a competitive gymnast (to give an idea of her physique), and her fiance is well over 300 pounds. So: everyone is different. You never know! (I believe my cousin and her fiance met while working at the same summer camp, she had time to get to know him as a person and so was attracted to his personality. I imagine that meeting someone in the way that people usually do (ie meet once at a party or bar, then decide if you will go on a date with them) would make it harder for people to look past your weight, since that decision making process is inherently superficial.
Good luck on your journey to losing weight, your social life and your health will thank you for it! The fact that you are actively looking to improve yourself will be attractive in and of itself.
posted by Kololo at 11:32 PM on July 21, 2007
My cousin on the other hand, is a teeny, cute little person, who used to be a competitive gymnast (to give an idea of her physique), and her fiance is well over 300 pounds. So: everyone is different. You never know! (I believe my cousin and her fiance met while working at the same summer camp, she had time to get to know him as a person and so was attracted to his personality. I imagine that meeting someone in the way that people usually do (ie meet once at a party or bar, then decide if you will go on a date with them) would make it harder for people to look past your weight, since that decision making process is inherently superficial.
Good luck on your journey to losing weight, your social life and your health will thank you for it! The fact that you are actively looking to improve yourself will be attractive in and of itself.
posted by Kololo at 11:32 PM on July 21, 2007
I'm an average-to-thin woman, and I've dated men who were 250-300 pounds. It isn't a problem for me - my superficiality concerns hair color, which just goes to show that everyone's attracted to different things. I believe women have a lot more pressure on them to look a certain way than men do because of the media and, before that, the visual arts. In Western culture the mainstream has gone from finding Rubenesque women attractive to Marilyn Monroe to the big-breasted Playboy women of the 80's to the underweight ideal of today. Men have an unfair advantage in this respect - I don't think similar "fashions" for their appearances really exist.
So don't worry about the weight too much - you definitely should work on it, and there are certainly women out there for whom it would be a problem, but it's not overwhelmingly the case. What you should do, though, is make sure you're consistently very clean and fresh-smelling. If you're overweight and working out a lot, you may have the tendency to get smelly faster than a skinny man would. With one of the overweight guys I dated, this was definitely a problem. So pay attention to your hygiene, act as confidently as you can, and you'll be fine.
posted by hazyjane at 4:28 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
So don't worry about the weight too much - you definitely should work on it, and there are certainly women out there for whom it would be a problem, but it's not overwhelmingly the case. What you should do, though, is make sure you're consistently very clean and fresh-smelling. If you're overweight and working out a lot, you may have the tendency to get smelly faster than a skinny man would. With one of the overweight guys I dated, this was definitely a problem. So pay attention to your hygiene, act as confidently as you can, and you'll be fine.
posted by hazyjane at 4:28 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
Are there women out there who won't care about your weight? YES!
I am head over heels in love with a man who, by "conventional standards," is overweight. I really couldn't tell you his BMI or anything as a frame of reference because it doesn't just register on may radar. All I know is that he's hot, sexy, very attractive, and we have an incredibly passionate sex life.
I'm slim but I don't go seeking a particular body type in men. I've dated other guys who've carried extra weight, as well as athletes, and guys who could pass for models. I think Brad Pitt is gorgeous but I'd walk over hot coals to get to James Galdolfini or Kevin James. There's just...something...about them. What I'm getting at is that there are women out there who care about things other than weight and instead look at a person's total picture.
That said, I know it's hard not to be sensitive to body type these days. As I approach 40, things are starting to sag and my hair is beginning to turn gray and it's just as hard to believe that a man would look past the taut young things at me.
Did you know there are Websites out there just for women who like big guys? Google a few choice search terms and you'll find everything from general forums to adult sites.
As for the extra-inches issue, I've read those same reports. Apparently it has something to do with a layer of fat that accumulates at the base of the penis but -- good news! -- it goes away with overall weight loss. A kind, caring, talented, and thoughtful partner, though, is way more important than an extra inch or two. WAY more.
If I could offer any advice at all it would be that, as you get to know a woman you hope to get closer to, just be honest with her. It's impossible to pretend your (and maybe even her) extra weight isn't there so just being open about it in a casual, not self-effacing, way may help her to know what you're sensitive about and what she can do to be sensitive and thoughtful about it. Want the lights out the first few times you have sex? Say so. If she cares, she'll want to know.
Oh, and I thought of something else, too. Why not put this question to the MeFites: "If you're an overweight man who's been successful in the dating scene, please give me some tips and advice."
Best of luck you, and remember: we are our own worst critics.
posted by _Mona_ at 8:23 AM on July 22, 2007
I am head over heels in love with a man who, by "conventional standards," is overweight. I really couldn't tell you his BMI or anything as a frame of reference because it doesn't just register on may radar. All I know is that he's hot, sexy, very attractive, and we have an incredibly passionate sex life.
I'm slim but I don't go seeking a particular body type in men. I've dated other guys who've carried extra weight, as well as athletes, and guys who could pass for models. I think Brad Pitt is gorgeous but I'd walk over hot coals to get to James Galdolfini or Kevin James. There's just...something...about them. What I'm getting at is that there are women out there who care about things other than weight and instead look at a person's total picture.
That said, I know it's hard not to be sensitive to body type these days. As I approach 40, things are starting to sag and my hair is beginning to turn gray and it's just as hard to believe that a man would look past the taut young things at me.
Did you know there are Websites out there just for women who like big guys? Google a few choice search terms and you'll find everything from general forums to adult sites.
As for the extra-inches issue, I've read those same reports. Apparently it has something to do with a layer of fat that accumulates at the base of the penis but -- good news! -- it goes away with overall weight loss. A kind, caring, talented, and thoughtful partner, though, is way more important than an extra inch or two. WAY more.
If I could offer any advice at all it would be that, as you get to know a woman you hope to get closer to, just be honest with her. It's impossible to pretend your (and maybe even her) extra weight isn't there so just being open about it in a casual, not self-effacing, way may help her to know what you're sensitive about and what she can do to be sensitive and thoughtful about it. Want the lights out the first few times you have sex? Say so. If she cares, she'll want to know.
Oh, and I thought of something else, too. Why not put this question to the MeFites: "If you're an overweight man who's been successful in the dating scene, please give me some tips and advice."
Best of luck you, and remember: we are our own worst critics.
posted by _Mona_ at 8:23 AM on July 22, 2007
It really is different for women. We like looking at attractive men, but it isn't anything like the direct eyes-to-libido thing that men have going on.
I'm another healthy weight woman who enjoys a very mutually satisfying sex life with a very overweight man. I will be much happier when he loses weight (he's working on it) but that is because of my worries about his health and not at all about sex.
As for penis size, I don't know any woman who would laugh at a penis attached to a man that they like well enough to sleep with. Length isn't what makes sex satisfying for us. It's attention. Pay attention to your partner, figure out what touches feel best to her, and do lots of that.
posted by happyturtle at 9:10 AM on July 22, 2007
I'm another healthy weight woman who enjoys a very mutually satisfying sex life with a very overweight man. I will be much happier when he loses weight (he's working on it) but that is because of my worries about his health and not at all about sex.
As for penis size, I don't know any woman who would laugh at a penis attached to a man that they like well enough to sleep with. Length isn't what makes sex satisfying for us. It's attention. Pay attention to your partner, figure out what touches feel best to her, and do lots of that.
posted by happyturtle at 9:10 AM on July 22, 2007
I'm 5'9" and a sz. 12. I'm by no means thin and never have been. And let me tell you, it is by far one of THE most difficult things I deal with in my life. I've been notably thinner in the past, but not without a LOT of effort, and even then I am much larger than most men prefer. And so I'm happy to date a guy that's a little heavier for two reasons 1) hopefully my weight won't be this horrible _issue_ between us that I'm constantly fearing (although, I've found that sometimes isn't the case - as you were saying the hypocrisy can be kinda stark and some heavy guys will specifically not date heavy girls because of the stigma of the 'heavy couple') and 2) frankly, there's something to being able to enjoy a nice meal and being an ethusiastic consumer of other oral pleasures. There's a connection there, and it's usually a positive one.
So maybe don't go for the Roseannes/Star Jones of the world but for the girls who just aren't all that small?
posted by smallstatic at 10:46 AM on July 22, 2007
So maybe don't go for the Roseannes/Star Jones of the world but for the girls who just aren't all that small?
posted by smallstatic at 10:46 AM on July 22, 2007
I don't find them not attractive. Attractiveness has a lot to do with qualities that can't be expressed in a single variable. I've been with some big guys and some athletic ones and some big but also athletic ones. Personally, size and shape are not as much an issue as whether the person has an active, interesting life. Passive or slow-paced people don't attract me, so couch potatoes don't, but I've also known a lot of bigger guys who were active, so the two are not always correlated.
As you would anyway, emphasize your best personal qualities - whatever you like about your appearance or the way you dress, your sense of humor, your empathy, your conversation and interests - and employ those to pursue the women you like. Some are likely to respond. I wouldn't say there's any need to start hitting on women you don't find attractive - why would you do that?
You are in the body you're in now. Rather than postponing your life, work on it while you continue to get to know the kinds of women you like. It's important to cultivate personality factors besides appearance, anyway, and maybe this will be a good time to work on the other characteristics you also have to offer. If you don't think there are any, that's a much bigger problem than your appearance.
posted by Miko at 11:33 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
As you would anyway, emphasize your best personal qualities - whatever you like about your appearance or the way you dress, your sense of humor, your empathy, your conversation and interests - and employ those to pursue the women you like. Some are likely to respond. I wouldn't say there's any need to start hitting on women you don't find attractive - why would you do that?
You are in the body you're in now. Rather than postponing your life, work on it while you continue to get to know the kinds of women you like. It's important to cultivate personality factors besides appearance, anyway, and maybe this will be a good time to work on the other characteristics you also have to offer. If you don't think there are any, that's a much bigger problem than your appearance.
posted by Miko at 11:33 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
Fat + small dick = not for me. But look at all the other girls who think it doesn't matter.
posted by dame at 2:15 PM on July 22, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by dame at 2:15 PM on July 22, 2007 [2 favorites]
I think women often tend to connect physical attraction with being attracted to someone's personality or having an emotional connection, rather than just the "drool ur hawt" style of picking a mate. While this isn't true for all women, I think it's common enough that I feel ok making that general statement. I also think women tend to aim lower when considering who's in "their league" whereas a lot of straight guys buy into the sitcom binary wherein a big fat dude can totally score a babe of a wife (think Homer/Marge).
Yes, physical attraction is important, and you can't force yourself to be attracted to someone who you find repulsive. But do you say you're 'not attracted' to larger women, but is it possible that you aren't willing to consider it because you don't want to date a larger woman due to societal pressure to sport a gf who looks like barbie? There's probably at least a little bit of self-loathing going on here, I would imagine. You're not going to wake up tomorrow and be thin, so you really should try to learn to appreciate your body and love it for what it is now, with the understanding that aesthetically you'd prefer to be sleeker and are working towards that in a healthy way. For more insight on the matter I'd suggest you read up on some of the thriving fat acceptance communities/blogs.
I really believe that it is possible to broaden your horizons a bit in terms of who you're going to date. For example, you may not consider bald women attractive but then one day you meet some smoking hot lady who sets you on fire and just happens to have a bald head....wow - you're forced to adjust your perception of baldness and that long, flowy hair isn't that important to you after all, no matter how socially accepted it is for women to shave their heads or that you've only dated long-haired ladies in the past.
The reason I am suggesting you look a bit deeper and unpack all of the societal factors at play is because I think you're shutting out the women who could be your biggest fans. I find the women who are attracted to bigger guys are most often big girls who've learned to embrace the big=beautiful concept and who feel comfortable with their own bodies. And as one of these ladies, I can tell you (in answer to your second question) that a big guy is almost always a better lay than a skinny boy is...they have the advantage of having more weight to put into it, if you catch my drift. The 'loss of inches' is - ahem - visual only. You might say it's a superficial difference.
posted by SassHat at 4:25 PM on July 22, 2007
Yes, physical attraction is important, and you can't force yourself to be attracted to someone who you find repulsive. But do you say you're 'not attracted' to larger women, but is it possible that you aren't willing to consider it because you don't want to date a larger woman due to societal pressure to sport a gf who looks like barbie? There's probably at least a little bit of self-loathing going on here, I would imagine. You're not going to wake up tomorrow and be thin, so you really should try to learn to appreciate your body and love it for what it is now, with the understanding that aesthetically you'd prefer to be sleeker and are working towards that in a healthy way. For more insight on the matter I'd suggest you read up on some of the thriving fat acceptance communities/blogs.
I really believe that it is possible to broaden your horizons a bit in terms of who you're going to date. For example, you may not consider bald women attractive but then one day you meet some smoking hot lady who sets you on fire and just happens to have a bald head....wow - you're forced to adjust your perception of baldness and that long, flowy hair isn't that important to you after all, no matter how socially accepted it is for women to shave their heads or that you've only dated long-haired ladies in the past.
The reason I am suggesting you look a bit deeper and unpack all of the societal factors at play is because I think you're shutting out the women who could be your biggest fans. I find the women who are attracted to bigger guys are most often big girls who've learned to embrace the big=beautiful concept and who feel comfortable with their own bodies. And as one of these ladies, I can tell you (in answer to your second question) that a big guy is almost always a better lay than a skinny boy is...they have the advantage of having more weight to put into it, if you catch my drift. The 'loss of inches' is - ahem - visual only. You might say it's a superficial difference.
posted by SassHat at 4:25 PM on July 22, 2007
I'm a slim woman who is not attracted to heavy men.
I often think that men don't try hard enough to keep themselves up, and I think it's because the majority of women aren't all that picky about looks. (I am, and I know I'm in the minority.) If straight men knew more of their potential partners expected them to look a certain way, I think more of them would be slim and well-dressed. Look at gay men--they know that other gay men care about looks so they tend to be fit and well groomed.
posted by mintchip at 6:44 PM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
I often think that men don't try hard enough to keep themselves up, and I think it's because the majority of women aren't all that picky about looks. (I am, and I know I'm in the minority.) If straight men knew more of their potential partners expected them to look a certain way, I think more of them would be slim and well-dressed. Look at gay men--they know that other gay men care about looks so they tend to be fit and well groomed.
posted by mintchip at 6:44 PM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
I have a woman friend who hates the "few extra pounds," body descriptor on match.com, she wants an actual "fat" tag to help her search. She's not overweight.
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:52 PM on July 22, 2007
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:52 PM on July 22, 2007
I am a very thin woman, and I have no problem with dating or having sex with a heavier guy. In fact, one of the best sexual partners I've ever had could easily be described as fat. When he was initially hitting on me, the thought was definitely all about how it would be different having sex with someone so much bigger than me, and that was a turn on. Some smaller women are really into the thought of a heavier guy's weight pressing down on them.
As for the penis size thing, it really doesn't matter to women how big a guy is unless he's abnormally small. And flaccid size doesn't count...any woman who isn't a virgin probably already knows that what you're looking at flaccid has almost no relation to what you get erect.
My advice about both the weight thing and the penis size thing is to get really good in bed. If you know that you have the skills to drive a woman wild in bed, it won't matter how big you are in any respect--you'll have the self-confidence necessary to bed any woman you want.
posted by twiggy32 at 9:28 PM on July 22, 2007
As for the penis size thing, it really doesn't matter to women how big a guy is unless he's abnormally small. And flaccid size doesn't count...any woman who isn't a virgin probably already knows that what you're looking at flaccid has almost no relation to what you get erect.
My advice about both the weight thing and the penis size thing is to get really good in bed. If you know that you have the skills to drive a woman wild in bed, it won't matter how big you are in any respect--you'll have the self-confidence necessary to bed any woman you want.
posted by twiggy32 at 9:28 PM on July 22, 2007
Sure lots of people have different preferences when it comes to attractive, and personality plays a large role.
Myself I always have gone for pretty lean guys. I wouldn't date anyone who was heavy. I've put on some pounds lately and am working to get them off asap and am disgusted with myself. But hey that's just one girl's opinion.
You are working on it - I would say keep working at it until you feel good about how you look. When you get to that stage you'll be more confident about all this stuff. And don't disregard that you won't find love before then either.
posted by gomichild at 11:11 PM on July 22, 2007
Myself I always have gone for pretty lean guys. I wouldn't date anyone who was heavy. I've put on some pounds lately and am working to get them off asap and am disgusted with myself. But hey that's just one girl's opinion.
You are working on it - I would say keep working at it until you feel good about how you look. When you get to that stage you'll be more confident about all this stuff. And don't disregard that you won't find love before then either.
posted by gomichild at 11:11 PM on July 22, 2007
first of all, congratulations to you for trying to get your weight under control and working on yourself. the fact that you're caring more about your health/appearance and taking the time to take care of yourself will go a long way to attracting all the cute girls you want.
i'm a normal, reasonably attractive, petite girl. my last boyfriend, at his highest weight, was 460 lb. he weighed only slightly less than that when we started dating, and he's since lost about 100 lb, but is still really overweight. i don't have a thing for big guys, and i think brad pitt is smokin' hot. however, i was really attracted by my ex's confidence, personality, excellent taste in _____ (books, movies, music, etc.), and his thoughtfulness, to the point where i was able to overlook the physical flaws, fall madly in love with him and eventually become attracted to him. if you'd like more info, or to get more input on this, feel free to email me.
as for your other point, my opinion (in no way is this a medical opinion, but based solely on personal experience) is that the loss of length is purely a visual thing. you're the same size, but you've lost a few inches to layers of fat cushioning around it. the bad news is, hey, you look a lot smaller! the good news is, despite the fat, you've still got those usable inches if you figure out how to work it right. i'm not going to lie and say penis size doesn't matter at all, but girls care a lot more about how it feels (duh) than you look naked... especially the kind of girls who are going to be jumping into bed with a fat guy. so don't sweat it, and just focus on yourself, and trying to get to the point where you're happy with who you are.
posted by booknerd at 11:16 AM on July 23, 2007
i'm a normal, reasonably attractive, petite girl. my last boyfriend, at his highest weight, was 460 lb. he weighed only slightly less than that when we started dating, and he's since lost about 100 lb, but is still really overweight. i don't have a thing for big guys, and i think brad pitt is smokin' hot. however, i was really attracted by my ex's confidence, personality, excellent taste in _____ (books, movies, music, etc.), and his thoughtfulness, to the point where i was able to overlook the physical flaws, fall madly in love with him and eventually become attracted to him. if you'd like more info, or to get more input on this, feel free to email me.
as for your other point, my opinion (in no way is this a medical opinion, but based solely on personal experience) is that the loss of length is purely a visual thing. you're the same size, but you've lost a few inches to layers of fat cushioning around it. the bad news is, hey, you look a lot smaller! the good news is, despite the fat, you've still got those usable inches if you figure out how to work it right. i'm not going to lie and say penis size doesn't matter at all, but girls care a lot more about how it feels (duh) than you look naked... especially the kind of girls who are going to be jumping into bed with a fat guy. so don't sweat it, and just focus on yourself, and trying to get to the point where you're happy with who you are.
posted by booknerd at 11:16 AM on July 23, 2007
Well... all I can say is THINK THIN. Visualize yourself as X and carry yourself as such.
It's a long long chatty girl style story so I'll skip to the end - just trust me ok :) It works!! And combined with aything above - will only help ;)
posted by mu~ha~ha~ha~har at 11:14 AM on November 2, 2007
It's a long long chatty girl style story so I'll skip to the end - just trust me ok :) It works!! And combined with aything above - will only help ;)
posted by mu~ha~ha~ha~har at 11:14 AM on November 2, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
That said, I have a considerable number of thin, normal and overweight female friends who seek out, date and have casual sex with men of your size. I am a woman with a BMI of 32 and I don't purposely seek out overweight and obese men, but I have dated and bedded them in the past. Everyone has this laundry list of traits they want in a partner, but if anecdotal evidence is any indicator, most people I know ended up with people who definitely wouldn't have topped that laundry list.
posted by sian at 3:14 PM on July 21, 2007