How hard should I try to get my $50 back?

July 2, 2007 10:26 PM

How hard should I try to get my $50 back?

I ordered an item from a smallish online retailer. I placed the order after business hours and on a legal holiday, Memorial Day. 3 hours later, I decided to cancel the order, and sent an e-mail to the sales address listed on the website (knowing no one would have been manning their phones at that time.)

The e-mail was bounced back to me, reporting the recipient as having a full mailbox.

I immediately re-sent my cancellation request to every e-mail address on the Contact Us page, including sales, support, general information, the webmaster, and the CEO's address (why not?)

Half of the messages also bounced back due to full mailboxes, I didn't know whether the other messages got through or not.

A couple of days later I received a message from the CEO saying that they did not receive my request in time, that I should have been more "responsible" in canceling my order (?!), and that the order had already been processed and fulfilled by their warehouse. My only option would be to refuse shipment of the item, and that I would incur a 15% restocking fee.

I refused shipment, and the item was sent back to the warehouse.

I feel that because I canceled my order within 3 hours of placement (after hours on a legal holiday, no less, where no human would have been around to process/fulfill the original order) and my cancellation requests were not received because of the company's IT issues, that I should not be held financially accountable for a restocking fee. I explained this situation and my position in e-mails to both the sales address and the CEO.

Subsequent e-mails to the company have been classified as Spam and sat in their Junk mail folder for 2-3 weeks without response. The CEO finally saw them and responded to my request for an update, and is standing by their restocking fee policy.

As of today I've received a refund minus the restocking fee, so I'm wondering how much trouble I should go through to get my additional $50 back. Am I wrong in thinking I am entitled to a 100% refund? Will a complaint to the BBB do anything? Contact my credit card provider and charge the amount back?

posted by wubbie to Work & Money (24 answers total)

How much do you get paid hourly? (you don't need to answer this.)
However many hours it takes for you to earn $50, don't spend a minute past that amount of time. There are tons of things that you could be doing with that time that could be much more benificial to your mental, financial, physical, and metaphysical health than arguing with people you don't know.

As for the BBB, you might as well call them and tell your story. They are the ones who ultimately decide wether a complaint has merit anyway. I mean, don't expect that doing so will suddenly make $50 show up, but it may help the next person save that $50. Consider it karma, or whatever.
posted by The Esteemed Doctor Bunsen Honeydew at 10:43 PM on July 2, 2007

I had this happen with Overstock.com and they fought me tooth & nail before I finally was credited. You are entitled to a 100% refund, it was not your fault they were being inept & unprofessional and you have PROOF that the mail was bounced back to you so that is not your fault.

I'm sure someone with more energy than I will show up and tell you exactly what to do, say and what legal phrases to drop that will get them to cooperate a bit faster. So I'll keep this short & let them do that. All I wanted to say is that even if only for the principal of it, get your money back & don't give up and allow yourself to be a victim just because a company's customer service sucks. I know it's frustrating but hang in there.
posted by miss lynnster at 10:43 PM on July 2, 2007

Just call your credit card company and tell them you dispute the charge. They'll send you a form to fill out and I bet you'll eventually get the $50 back without too much effort on your part.
posted by maniactown at 10:48 PM on July 2, 2007 [2 favorites]

Who is the retailer?
posted by pokermonk at 10:49 PM on July 2, 2007

Speaking as a small vendor, that kind of cancellation can be kind of troublesome, so I will pass judgement on whether the $50 is just recompense for their labor in packing, shipping, getting it back, rechecking, and so on.

But if you feel up to it, post about it on the Bad Service blog as well as ResellerRatings. You can also try Consumerist, though lately it seems I never get any response from them anymore, much less a post about my topic.
posted by hodyoaten at 10:59 PM on July 2, 2007

Response by poster: I can physically survive without the $50 in my bank account, so this is really more a matter of principle, as miss lynnster pointed out. But I've definitely weighed the thought of how much my time is worth versus how much hassle this could be, and haven't really made up my mind.

The retailer (who I don't mind recommending you avoid) is www.daystartechnology.com.
posted by wubbie at 11:07 PM on July 2, 2007

I agree with maniactown. I've done this before with Bank of America, and the bank temporarily credited the amount to my account while they investigated. In my case, I eventually discovered that I was in the wrong, but I seem to remember the bank handling the issue very efficiently and professionally.
posted by Brocktoon at 11:47 PM on July 2, 2007

Don't do an email. Print out the entire course of emails and then write a detailed letter explaining what happened and then indicating that you will be contacting Mr./Ms. X, Attorney General for the state in which they have their primary business address if you don't get your $50.
posted by Ironmouth at 11:55 PM on July 2, 2007

I see at the bottom they are authorized Apple dealers etc. Drop the part about the attorney general to a different paragraph and add a whole deal about how you will be sending a similar letter to Apple asking that Daystar's authorization be withdrawn.

I find it troubling that the link to the return policy redirects to a sales page.

These things are all about leverage. Writing a letter with enclosures shows you mean fucking business and will generate more headache than 50 bucks is worth.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:00 AM on July 3, 2007 [2 favorites]

You could initiate a charge-back with your credit card. You are entitled to $50 because it was impossible to communicate with the business. Having an unreachable email address is similar to having a phone line disconnected.

When you call your credit card issuer, make it clear that you were wrongfully penalized for the company's mistake (and provide your bounced email proof).
posted by reeddavid at 12:31 AM on July 3, 2007

How much would you pay to never have to think about this problem ever again? If you feel that $50 (and an AskMe week) is worth your time, it will be solved forever. Anything more would be a deal.
posted by iamkimiam at 1:01 AM on July 3, 2007

credit card chargeback. Worst case scenario, your chargeback is denied, though I think that's unlikely.
posted by kingjoeshmoe at 1:16 AM on July 3, 2007

If it was me, I'd fight for the $50. No doubt it will cost more than $50 worth of time and energy, but the sheer satisfaction of winning the point would be worth it for me. I mean, how dare they treat you like this?

I don't agree with the idea that they're somehow entitled to the $50 to cover their expenses in shipping, restocking, etc. Like any business, their first concern should be to serve their customers professionally and fairly--and if they're smart, better than fairly. If they had dealt that way with you, you wouldn't have hesitated to deal with them again. Now you never will (and neither will I).
posted by bluebird at 2:39 AM on July 3, 2007

I looked this up in an English legal commentary, which said there are two viewpoints for revoking an offer at a distance before acceptance—either "revocation must be 'brought to the mind of' the offeree" or "that 'communication' is prima facie made when it is delivered to the offeree's address."

It also said that the American rule can be found in the American Legal Institute's Restatement of the Law of Contracts (2d) (1981) s 68, helpfully omitting what the rule actually is. So if you really want to pursue this, you can go to a law library and look it up. Or maybe one of the helpful lawyer MeFites will do it for you.

But of course, in this case, they were negligent in refusing to receive your communication or in not reading it for weeks after receipt. So I don't think you should be on the hook, although that is more of a moral conclusion than a legal one.

As far as how much time you should spend, considering your own wages is useful but simplistic. If you avoid spending time pursuing this, you may find that you can't stop thinking about how you were ripped off without a fight, and avoiding that is worth some money to some people. Also, you may feel that there is a public service aspect in teaching the company that not everyone will let their rights be trampled over.

Starting with a chargeback won't take much time. If it is rejected, consider your options.
posted by grouse at 3:09 AM on July 3, 2007

Assuming you don't have a record of abusing the chargeback privilege with your credit card, they will almost certainly just take your word for it and accept the chargeback initially. They won't bother to investigate unless the vendor disputes the chargeback. So just do it, odds are that will be the end of it.
posted by COD at 4:34 AM on July 3, 2007

Nthing chargeback. If you had canceled your order thirty seconds after you placed it, you still would have had the same communication problems -- this is their bad.
posted by desuetude at 6:13 AM on July 3, 2007

By their own policy orders can be cancelled up to 48 hours later if the product hasn't shipped. So when did they tell you? Did you use an email return reciept?
posted by Gungho at 6:17 AM on July 3, 2007

Do the chargeback. Chargebacks really hurt companies, it makes them look bad to the credit card companies and takes away their precious 15% restocking fees. Considering the CEO sent you this letter, there's no one else to really complain to. It sounds like a shoddy company that delivers shoddy service and has a shoddy IT infrastructure. They deserve your worst.
posted by damn dirty ape at 6:59 AM on July 3, 2007 [1 favorite]

FWIW, the web site also has a message board.

Oddly, when you go to look at their sales policies page, you see this message:

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /policies on this server.
posted by Robert Angelo at 7:10 AM on July 3, 2007

Would it make sense to tell them you are going to do a chargeback/call the BBB/call a lawyer/etc. if they don't refund the $50, before you actually do it? Give them a final chance to make it right on their own?

I'm not saying to do this out of kindness; Were I in your situation, I think I would feel more satisfied if I got action directly from the party that wronged me, rather than going over their head.

And if that doesn't work, by all means, do the chargeback.
posted by SampleSize at 7:38 AM on July 3, 2007

Do a chargeback, or call the company and give them a last chance before you do a chargeback. Spend as much time as you feel like on it, this issue means enough to you that a calculation of it being "worth your time" won't mean much. People sometimes do things just to get personal satisfaction out of it.
posted by yohko at 8:08 AM on July 3, 2007

nthing chargeback.
posted by infinitewindow at 9:41 AM on July 3, 2007

It would depend on how vigilante I was feeling today.

Most days I would walk away and forget about it, but my hourly rate might be different than yours (ala Dr Honeydew's suggestion)

If I put my cranky pants on however I would do a few things

- The charge-back. I did one once on a transaction I forgot I had made and I still got credit for it. (whoops.)

- I wouldn't bother with Better Business bureau unless you know they're members.

- Tell the story on every Online Retailer ratings site you can find.

- As Ironmouth suggested, write a letter to Apple and anyone else they do business with. Keep it factual, not emotional. Make sure they know you don't want the $50 from them.

- Possibly send a copy to his state's attorney general office with a CC to the company. (Don't think the state AG will do anything, but it might get the companies attention.)

- Forget all about it. This is probably one of those situations where you get to choose between being wrong or going crazy.
posted by Ookseer at 11:04 AM on July 3, 2007

Also, please remember that instituting a chargeback isn't being "mean" if it's done with good cause, and it's not really a complicated procedure. The first thing that the chargeback rep will do is ask if you tried to resolve the issue in good faith with the company. You did, they refused.

You have a very good case for getting your $50 back with nothing spent except for the hold time and maybe five minutes with a rep. Do yourself a favor before you get on the phone and write down the times & dates of your e-mails, just so that you can supply these facts before being prompted for them.
posted by desuetude at 12:32 PM on July 3, 2007