Was Warren the Something About Mary?

June 29, 2007 5:15 PM

Does anyone have any input on the dating prospects, histories, etc. of an only sibling of a mentally retarded person?

I’m 30, and just out of an engagement. And because I don’t feel like I can confidently move on to a new relationship without figuring out what the heck went wrong with the prior, I have been thinking quite a bit about the dynamic of my last relationship. In considering it, I’m wondering if a lot of our/my issues weren’t related to my relationship to my sister and my role in our family generally. So, I’m hoping either siblings of retarded folks, or the friends and family who know them, could weigh in on their relationships and how they think the dynamic may have impacted their finding a life partner.

For my part, I’m exceedingly type A and like to be organized and get a lot of things accomplished in my days. I like busy. Busy suits me. I also tend to be fairly managerial in my disposition, or at least I was before my break up. (I like to think my natural charm and sense of humor balance this stuff out – ha ha, oh god, I hope so.) I just finished a J.D., going part time at night and working full time during the day. It was brutal. I met my ex-fiance during my first year and we became engaged last summer. We moved in together after a year of dating. He is the polar opposite of me in just about every way, which I thought, and everyone still tells me, was the right idea. He is very laid back, patient, and caring. He is by far the nicest person I have ever met and that is why I ultimately decided to marry him - because of how incredibly, unbelievably gentle and nice he is. He is working on getting his second bachelor’s (didn’t tag that base on the first round) in industrial design. He also has some very clearly identifiable attention and organizational issues. At first, we got along swimmingly. It was when we moved in together that I just began to totally lose it on a regular basis – the stress of living with him (and aaaaalllll of his stuff) was at times unbearable.

And that’s where this question comes in. Towards the end there, I really began to regard him as I had my sister. (I know – terrible – but yet, so true.) I was wildly frustrated with so many things and yet felt very much trapped in the relationship – I was pushing 30 after all - and felt like I had to exercise just about as much patience as I could muster on a daily basis. There was also the issue of being in school and just not having any time or energy to properly be in the relationship and work on it.

Does this sound familiar to anyone? Or at least like a likely pattern? Do any (only) siblings of mentally retarded folks get into relationships with people that they’re much more dominant than or feel like they have to take care of?

Thanks all,
~ss

PS If anyone wants to weigh in on where they think I might have gone wrong in this scenario generally, that is welcome too.

posted by smallstatic to human relations (17 comments total)

I think lots of people with Type A personalities can be frustrated with disorganized, inattentive partners. In fact, I think even disorganized people can get frustrated by a disorganized partner. I don't think being the sibling of someone mentally disabled is necessary, although your family arrangement growing up might have something to do with why your Type A personality developed the way it did.

You need someone more organized. That's fine.
posted by grouse at 5:22 PM on June 29, 2007

heh. I never considered that Warren might be the "something", but I'm about 98% sure that they meant "there's just something about that Mary ... everyone just falls in love with her".

I've had a number of friends with mentally retarded siblings, and all of them have had long, fulfilling relationships (much longer than any I've had, anyway) and I believe at least one of them recently got married.

Because you've made a few references to your normally hectic/busy (yet organized) schedule - it's likely this beau of yours came off seeming like the weight-pulling opposite. It can be frustrating when you feel like you're doing all these things to further yourself, your career, etc and the person you're with just trudges along in life and doesn't show much "oomph".

Conversely, he may have thought you were overexerting yourself, and you may have been too high stress for his "laid-back, patient" lifestyle.

Unless there's a whole lot more relevant information beyond what you've already told us, I chalk it up to basic incompatibility. These things happen.
posted by revmitcz at 5:26 PM on June 29, 2007 [1 favorite]

None of my sibs are retarded, but I'm the oldest and definitely had control issues. And my first husband was definitely someone with a more childish persona. I ran the show, and he resented it and undermined me.

Overcome your control issues and you'll be a lot happier and ready for another relationship. And don't panic about your age! There is definitely life and love after 30!
posted by happyturtle at 5:43 PM on June 29, 2007 [1 favorite]

A friend of mine has a profoundly autistic brother (I know it's not the same as mental retardation, but some of her challenges were probably similar), and she just got married last year. It didn't seem to affect her.

I think he was just *too* opposite. I think it's like grouse said...your family situation may have helped form your Type A personality, but I doubt it would prevent you from finding other relationships.
posted by christinetheslp at 5:53 PM on June 29, 2007

yep, i think you were just incompatible. i'm sorry for your lost love, but aside from perhaps not putting as much time into the relationship as you could have (which you acknowledge), it sounds like it just wasn't a good long-term match, even if your chemistry was good.

you probably need to be with someone more organized. if you're excessively anal (to the point of alienating others), then you might want to think about therapy.

i am the sister of a mentally ill person, so i can sympathize with your need for order.
posted by thinkingwoman at 6:02 PM on June 29, 2007

Yes, this sounds familiar. The following is completely without judgement, and entirely from experience:

You're what I would have been (we're the same age), had I been more together. Don't have a retarded sibling, but can relate to having family members with special needs/health issues.

I think you are really hard on yourself- and when you are hard on yourself, this will reflect in the way you treat other people. Yes, it'll motivate you to greatness, but will play havoc with your personal life.

It would be interesting to know your gender and your birth order in the family. My guess is you are a female oldest child. According to birth order theories, female oldest children tend to take on the bulk of the responsibility of the family, especially in dysfunctional situations. My guess is your boyfriend is a youngest boy. Your boyfriend was me (rebelling against the 'expected older female' responsible role) in my last relationship. Jungian analysis has it that we are attracted to our 'animus/anima'- our opposite. You are looking to connect with your weakest side- as exhibited by the qualities your boyfriend exhibits. You complement each other, yet serve as each other's crutch in a way.

Thank you for posting this question, smallstatic- you've offered me that magic view as described in Robert Frost's "The Road Not Taken" poem. You've allowed me to shed a heavy case of doubt- and allowed me to see the 'road not taken'.

Suddenly (and this is without a trace of sarcasm), I'm grateful for my cheap-red-wine-drunk, broken-down-freelance-writer-living-in-a-cheap-parking-on-Baltic-Ave.-dump of a life.

Honestly- this thread is the cherry atop one of the craziest, most life and identity-affirming days of my life. My God, I want to hug you.

I'm not usually this long-winded. It's scary- I'm more interested in the problems of strangers on the internet than I am in a snail mail letter- sitting unopened behind me- from my own mother with whom I haven't spoken for seven years. This age we live in. Long live AskMeFi.

Email me if need be.
posted by solongxenon at 6:13 PM on June 29, 2007 [1 favorite]

Hey, if you want to read a good book on the "I'm super organized" - "my partner is super disorganized" pattern (and plenty of others), and how patterns like this establish themselves in families and then in future relationships, and how to somewhat undo the patterns when they start driving you crazy, or you're tired of playing that role, check out the book Dance of Intimacy by Harriet Lerner. You'll probably find some of it obvious and fundamental, but there are also a lot of really practical ideas in there.

I really began to regard him as I had my sister

It's not terrible, and it's probably not coincidental. You probably developed certain strengths and got comfortable being the ___ person (the organized, prepared one or whatever), and so you fell into similar patterns with your partner. Even if he weren't mentally retarded, all kinds of patterns develop in families (rebel / good kid, etc). That Lerner book is great for thinking about how to stop recreating patterns. (I know this sounds like stereotypical Psych 101 babble, but her examples are so much better than my attempt to generalize the book.)

Good luck.
posted by salvia at 6:32 PM on June 29, 2007

Dang solongxenon! You got it exactly - female oldest. He's actually an identical twin - they are the only children of their parents - which is it's own unique system of relationship patterns, dynamics and competition. (He's the second twin I've dated. I seem to have both times gotten involved with the twin of the pair that doesn't want to settle down while their brothers are busy meeting women at the end of aisles and breeding 'til their heart's content.) Not too sure what you were talking about with the other stuff - did you mean you were actually cheap-red-wine-drunk whilst posting? :) - but I do heartily agree, long live AskMeFi. I'm sure there will be more from me this month as I spend an inordinate amount of time at my dining room table pondering life... errrr... studying for the bar exam.
posted by smallstatic at 7:11 PM on June 29, 2007

Yes, cheap-red-wine-drunk-with-slightly-legitimate-excuse (having made a heavy press deadline). The rest of it is my own emotionally broken babbling.

It would be interesting to hear how you make out.
posted by solongxenon at 7:22 PM on June 29, 2007

"Malt does more than Milton can, to justify God's ways to man."
posted by solongxenon at 7:23 PM on June 29, 2007

My brother, who I was very close to, is mentally ill. The majority of my relationships have been men who had emotional problems that I thought I could fix, with a strong element of codependency on my part. It's only been recently through therapy I realised that by picking 'lame duck' boyfriends I was trying to do what I couldn't do with my brother - namely cure his illness.

There's a book 'Mad House' by Clea Simon which accurately describes the experiences of the siblings of mentally ill or developmentally disabled children, including the relationships they form as adults. I found it very useful.

It's been useful to hear of someone else that does this - so thanks for posting. Good luck.
posted by poissonrouge at 1:57 AM on June 30, 2007 [1 favorite]

The idea that it's the right thing to be with someone who is polar opposite to you is just wrong wrong wrong. Or at best a gross simplification.

Opposites attract, but they don't stay together. Instead, you need to find is someone who is compatible. This person, while not being exactly the same as you, is not completely different either. This is someone whose strengths fill in where you have weaknesses, but not someone who will drive you batty with their weaknesses. The sad truth is that, as a type A, more people will fit into the "drive you batty" category.

I don't think that having a mentally disabled sister necessarily accounts for your issues, though it does give you a familiar pattern to fall into when things go bad. Don't fall for it. Take some responsibility for choosing the right person, and then put real time into the relationship so that it can thrive.
posted by Void_Ptr at 4:27 AM on June 30, 2007 [1 favorite]

Both of my brothers are retarded. But my sister and I are not. In thinking about your question, the first thing I thought about was how they are pretty self sufficient and I really couldn't help you with this question. They both live in Chicago and I live in Pennsylvania. They have jobs and their own apartment and have been on their own for more than twenty years.

But then I started think about why they're so independent. I usually give all the credit to my mother, who despite the advice of professionals, didn't institutionalize them. Because there were no support services she joined the school board and got a special eduction program developed. She also organized a township agency called the Youth Commission which applied for grants to offer the community support services such as counseling and vocational training. Our home town owes her a hell of a lot for creating an infrastructure to help families with challenging kids.

But on reading you're description of yourself, a bunch of things sounded familiar. And as I thought about it, I wondered if taking care of my brothers when I was a kid didn't result in some similar personality traits you described in myself. My mother didn't do it alone. She depended on me a lot as both my parents worked full time. My dad's job actually required him to travel most of the year. And my sister, well even though she was two years older than I, she actually required more guidance than she offered.

Even though his doctors never thought he would, I specifically remember teaching my younger brother to read. I think he was five or six and I was seven. I know I often wonder if I didn't grow up a heck of a lot faster than the other kids at school. I was certainly more responsible and had many more responsibilities than they did.

I suppose I have some type A tendencies, though I've learned to control my temper much more than my father, whom I've always blamed for tendencies. But I'm also very neat, organized, and like you I have a strong impulse to control situations.

I'm on my second wife, but I don't think these issues are connected to the divorce of my first. There are other more obvious reasons for that. But as for the attracted to opposites, yeah, we're on the same page there. I still find my tendencies to want to take care of others pretty strong. My current wife seems comfortably resigned to it and I think actually kind of likes it. She's not all that domestic and we've come to an agreement about tasks and the level of chaos I can live with. It's more than I dealt with when I was a bachelor, but less than she's used to. It takes work, but we do find compromise.

Is any of this helpful, probably not. If I were to offer advice I suppose it would be to perhaps not focus on the specific situations, but the impulse and reactions you have when not in control. That's been helpful for me. When I'm frustrated with my spouse or kids, I try to focus on my response and tempering it, rather than on what they might have done. It hasn't been easy, but when it works I do think it helps us all to live a bit more harmoniously. Of course the most frustrating part of that is no one notices when you've successfully avoided a conflict, no credit there. But if you fail and create a conflict, everyone knows it was your fault.

For what it's worth...
posted by Toekneesan at 5:46 AM on June 30, 2007

Toekneesan - extremely helpful. thanks. ~ss
posted by smallstatic at 5:54 AM on June 30, 2007

Also, happyturtle - thanks for the postscript re: life after 30. That was really my first emotional crisis following the breakup... the what IF that was my last chance at a family? I posted here about it and got some great feedback. My favorite by far was paulsc's comment. No. 8 specifically - men in "rural situations". That still cracks me up. :)
posted by smallstatic at 2:20 PM on June 30, 2007

Did you ever think about doing couple's counseling? Sometimes that can help two people to work on relating to each other better. As a fiancee, I would recommend it for anybody who's planning on a long-term commitment with their partner.

Also if you're concerned that it might be related to your own issues about growing up with a special needs sibling, it might be worthwhile to consider your own counseling. That way next time you might be better prepared.

Best of luck.
posted by mynameismandab at 2:02 PM on July 1, 2007

My little sister has Turrets (spelling?), seizures, schizophrenia and an attachment disorder & my mother was run over by a log truck when I was 8. During one of her surgeries had a lack of oxygen to the brain and is um, not quite as brilliant as she used to be. When she came home from her year in the hospital, dear old dad left and there was 8 year old me to run the house, mother the baby, cook the food, make the decisions, pay the bills & change the bedpan…ect. (Fortunately my mother is better physically now, kinda, but the mental effects still linger).

Being 8 years old with a 2 year old sister with the above problems and all of the sudden having to raise her and raise my mother (until I got married at 18 and ran as fast as possible) definitely shaped the kind of wife that I am. I find that I most of the traits that I came with into the relationship were not so great. It is almost compulsive of me to control everything that goes on in our lives, and it is torture to step back and let my husband run stuff (like medical decisions or letting him be his own advocate). He was the oldest of 2 other brothers and while his parents provided for them all, there were also issues of a pretty controlling mom, so it was easy for him to fall into the roll of being controlled by a dominant woman…and boy am I dominant.

If you want additional details let me know.
posted by Jenny is Crafty at 2:45 PM on July 1, 2007