Making my 4yro musical.

June 5, 2007 9:58 PM

Encouraging musical talent in a 4yro?

My bigger boy turns 4 soon, and we are considering something musical as a present. He is a virtuoso air guitar/trumpet/drum/piano player, and can readily identify the instruments in music he hears.
Alas, my wife and I are less than gifted musically. I have an old steel string guitar I stumblingly play once a year, and had two years of piano lessons I hated when I was 10. My wife has less experience than that.
I don't think he is big enough (or would particularly enjoy) professional lessons, but perhaps some bongo drums, a recorder/tin whistle or a cheap keyboard would be a start?
Any advice welcome. I am happy to devote regular time to learn/teach/practice with him.

posted by bystander to Education (36 answers total)

Start the piano as soon as you possibly can.

I am a music student limping my way through piano classes now (I am not a pianist, obviously), trying to pick up what I didn't learn when I was younger. Piano is a lifetime skill: if he keeps playing, it'll benefit his other music, and even if he stops when he's in high school, he'll always have that training, and can always pick it up later.

For now, get a keyboard for him to tool around on; it's great fun. But if it's at all possible, try to get him some lessons and a decent instrument to play on.
posted by rossination at 10:03 PM on June 5, 2007

A 4 year old's hands and arms are too small for a piano, or in fact for most kinds of instruments. A kid that age also isn't strong enough. A recorder would be a good choice, but don't expect too much.

If you want to nurture musical talent at this age, the main thing to do is to keep exposing your kid to music to listen to.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 10:14 PM on June 5, 2007

Get him a ukelele or mandolin if you don't want to get him a violin and a teacher. They're small and pretty easy (except violin).
posted by ludwig_van at 10:26 PM on June 5, 2007

I started taking cello lessons at that age. Of course, I spent a while with a cardboard cutout cello before moving onto my own real tiny cello.
posted by magwich at 10:28 PM on June 5, 2007

I've heard (ie you'd want to seek a more reliable source) that toy instruments or other instruments that are slightly off-key can be musically damaging for very young children, as it harms their ability to develop as close to "perfect pitch" as possible.

I have nothing to back that up, it may just be some wild theory, or it might have expert backing. Just throwing it out here so you can decide whether it's worth looking into.
posted by -harlequin- at 10:31 PM on June 5, 2007

My policy was to wait until my kids asked for lessons. The school offered band starting in 4th. The little sister (in kindergarden) wanted an insturment of her own so we got her a recorder. She took a few lessons and then putit aside until she wanted to start again in third grade. The benefit was I could threaten "if you don't practice, no lessons" and they would since they wanted lessons.

At the same, getting a keyboard would be nice to let him get some idea of how to make his own songs. Also, sing, clap rythms and help him enjoy different kinds of music.
posted by metahawk at 10:32 PM on June 5, 2007

If the 4-year-old has enough concentration and desire to learn an instrument, then SDCB's comment doesn't stand. My husband's a music teacher, and has a few young, talented students who can easily play piano, and even one who plays (a child-sized) guitar, small hands be damned. A cheap keyboard is a great idea; as others said, it's a nice gateway into learning music.

Another small, maybe controverisal tip: if you get into teaching notes, trying to do it without mnemonics. (All Cows Eat Grass, etc.) Though it's more difficult at first, my husband finds that if his students learn, say, an A by its sound and location rather than part of a mnemoic series, it sticks better and leads to more understanding later on.
posted by Zosia Blue at 10:39 PM on June 5, 2007

I would get him some musical toys -- a variety that he can experiment with. Basically, allow him to make the transition from listening to creating. A little keyboard would not be a bad idea.

I would maybe stay away from recorder for now. Kids that young seem to have trouble with the whole blowing into while covering holes concept. Even with 8-year-olds it can be a struggle. At that age it's better to have instant gratification type stuff, i.e. you hit it, it makes a noise. Percussion, keyboard, that kind of thing. Even if they're "too small" to play piano "properly" they still LOVE hitting the keys...

Start saving up for a decent upright piano now -- that way in a couple years you can have one when he's ready to start lessons. In the long run an actual piano is going to be MUCH more pleasant and fun for everyone involved.
posted by speicus at 10:40 PM on June 5, 2007

Dont force it, if you and your wife arent musical, he might not be either.
I love music, I love listening to music, watching other people play and I love singing - but I suck. I was forced to take piano lessons for about 6 years and I only got to grade 2 - I tried guitar for a few years too and as much as I wanted to be good - I was crap.

It sounds like right now he has all the enthusiasm in the world and should be encouraged, but enthusiasm is not the same as talent, if it turns out he sucks (though you wont be able to really tell for a good few years yet) let him stop if he wants to. Theres not much worse than being forced to suffer the pain of private lessons when no matter how hard you try you really cant play.

I'd try to find a small but in tune keyboard, maybe one with a little song book so he can learn some basic tunes.

Avoid:
Violins - theres nothing worse than a small child murdering a violin
Trumpets - your neighbours will thank you
Drums - ok if they're small and not too loud but they wont do much for his musical ability - good for rhythm though
Recorder - the recorder is an awful instrument that children are forced to play when they get to school (or at least in the UK) at 4 he will likely just untunefully blow down it and drive you potty.
posted by missmagenta at 11:04 PM on June 5, 2007

Piano. A good teacher will know what to do with a four-year-old--and no, their hands aren't too small, as long as you aren't asking them to span octaves or anything.
posted by rhoticity at 11:17 PM on June 5, 2007

Getting him an electronic keyboard or considering a piano for the household is a great idea. We sat our son in front of the piano when he was an infant, just for kicks, and he loved hitting the keys and now at 2.5 he will often go bang on it himself but he really loves playing with the little electronic keyboard we got him at a thrift store because he can carry that around with him.

If he enjoys learning in a group environment, you could send him to Kindermusik (and equivalents); they have programs up to age 7.

If he's truly demonstrating musical aptitude and can take direction, I know parents who start their kids on violin, piano, etc lessons at 4, usually with the Suzuki method. But I wouldn't recommend that unless you know he's the type to thrive in that structure. I started violin lessons at 5 and didn't really like it for many years (it was like school for me... I had to go and I didn't hate it, but I wasn't exactly enjoying it until I was old enough to appreciate what I was learning).

So, do what fits for his personality. And expose him to all kinds of music (styles and cultures) so he knows what's out there and can train his ear. Take him to concerts if he likes that. Sing songs!
posted by girlhacker at 11:24 PM on June 5, 2007

I support people's comments about listening to your kid if they start to indicate that lessons / learning an instrument isn't for them after all. Parents forcing their kids to practice piano or violin when they don't want to is cruel and unusual - especially given that musical instruments retain their value, and selling one if your child gives up on it generally isn't a hassle.

In terms of which instrument - well, I tend to feel it's best to go towards popular ones, instruments that, if they stick to them, they could eventually end up playing with other people. The piano is a great starting point. Guitars are, obviously, immensely popular in many musical contexts. People who learn the drums can diversify into all kinds of percussion. But clarinets...violins...that sort of thing limits you somewhat...you can't really jam with your friends in the garage when you're 13 with one of those.

I support buying a small, simple electronic keyboard, for instant gratification and experimentation; indeed I've just bought one for my son's 1st birthday. I'm not expecting a toddler to play like Thelonius Monk, but I think it's something he would enjoy, especially given his obvious glee when he watches me play guitar, or when he bangs on his toy wooden xylophone. I don't see the harm in getting kids interested in and comfortable with instruments before you start forcing sight-reading and theory on them.
posted by Jimbob at 11:38 PM on June 5, 2007

Try a melodica wind piano
posted by hortense at 12:22 AM on June 6, 2007

I would recommend just having musical things around. Start pulling the guitar more often, start filling a box with a tambourine, recorder, etc. He'll find things if he's interested in them and you'll notice what direction he's going.
posted by rhizome at 12:30 AM on June 6, 2007

I tried guitar for a few years too and as much as I wanted to be good - I was crap.

It sounds like right now he has all the enthusiasm in the world and should be encouraged, but enthusiasm is not the same as talent

Enthusiasm and talent might not be the same, but the line between them is quite fuzzy. Not to denigrate your efforts on the guitar, but I strongly believe that nearly anyone can become proficient on something like the guitar or the piano if they put in the right effort.

I was described as completely tonedeaf and musically talentless until I was about 16, when I got really into the guitar. I went on to become a proficient singer and guitarist and to study music composition in college. One could argue that I had a latent talent all along, but it seems to me that I taught myself how to be musical because I wanted to.
posted by ludwig_van at 1:03 AM on June 6, 2007

Which is basically to say that I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about whether or not your child is one of the chosen few with the natural gift of music. If he enjoys it and wants to become proficient at it, he can.
posted by ludwig_van at 1:09 AM on June 6, 2007

Someone really ought to have pointed out Ukulele at this point! Hard wearing, fun, easy to play(1 finger chords, small fret board), hard to play well, lots of source material, cheap to start. A nice sounding, well pitched Uke won't set you back a fortune- soprano size would be good for small hands to begin with. Lots of internet resouces are available if you wish to follow it up!
posted by Joe Rocket at 2:23 AM on June 6, 2007

I'm studying Music at university, and I play the violin and trumpet (and piano not very well).

I, along with several other people I know, started the violin at age 4. Violins come in different sizes, and there are ones small enough for 4-year-olds to play. I am now a very strong ensemble player and musician generally - I have an excellent sense of pitch which I honestly believe is due to my starting learning an instrument at such a young age.

With the trumpet, 4 really is too young. Because playing puts pressure on the mouth and teeth, it is a good idea to wait until the child is starting to grow adult teeth before starting to learn - otherwise the experience could be a) painful and b) mean that they develop a bad playing technique which has to change as their teeth change.

My email's in my profile if you (or anyone else reading this!) has any questions about learning an instrument at an early age.
posted by Lotto at 2:28 AM on June 6, 2007

First, the child should be exposed to lots of music. All kinds of music: Bach, big band swing of the 30s and 40s, Beatles, bluegrass, Brazilian bossa nova, Radiohead, Motown and everything in between.

Musical instruments should be around the house and available at all times: stringed, keyboards, a toy xylophone, percussion, etc.

I have some lifelong friends who are not musically inclined at all, although they're great music lovers, of course. They started their twin sons' piano lessons at about 6, and one went on to Suzuki method at 8. Both boys excelled musically, in spite of their parents' tin ears. One became state champion fiddle player when he was 13 (competing in the same division with 18 year olds, mind you) and he and his brother both play classical piano.

The thing with Suzuki method (from what I've gathered) is that one of the parents takes the class with the child and they both learn the instrument together. This is key.

I think the younger you start a child's musical training, the more he/she will benefit, particularly if he/she happens to have a musical aptitude, although aptitude is not everything. Music can be taught, with or without an "ear."
posted by wsg at 2:29 AM on June 6, 2007

Speaking as a previous student of music, I diito the suggestion of getting him into piano lessons. I've found that it is easiest to start them a younger age in order to dedicate their leisure priorities, so to speak (getting him into piano may prove to be easier than encouraging him to take lessons when he's already discovered how awesome playing hockey is, after which it will be piano schmiano. i'm meeting the guys for a game at the park). Starting him on lessons now will increase the probability that when he does get to the stage where he wants to almost exclusively hang out with his friends, it might involve music (forming/playing in a band). There is also something to be said of the development of musical abilities and the development of certain parts of the brain.

I feel that piano lessons offer the "greatest rate of return" (if I am to speak in economic terms). Not only will your son learn to play an instrument, but he will, by proxy, learn the intricacies of harmony, music theory, figured bass, staff notation for instruments, the ability to read different clefs, etc. Playing the piano will provide him with a solid foundation of musicianship if he choses to pursue a different instrument later down the line. Playing the piano is much like riding a bike: you never really forget how to play if it is ingrained in you through musical scholarship. I am so thankful that my parents started me on the piano at 5. Though my formal lessons stopped long ago, I still enjoy playing, composing, and learning new songs years later. I have also noticed that those who have hands-on experience with music display a deeper appreciation for musical subtleties than those of who have no formal musical training. It's like learning a foreign language: it opens up completely different and exotic worlds around us.

p.s. Anecdotally: Knowing how to play the piano will also give your son a leg up with "the ladies" later on. There's something about a man making an impromptu run at the piano during a party that makes women swoon; I have witnessed this phenomenon time and time again. Picking up a guitar and fumbling through a song doesn't seem to come close to the effect of finessing one's way through a song on the piano. Pianists are a dangerous bunch!
posted by numinous at 2:37 AM on June 6, 2007 [1 favorite]

I'm a trained music teacher and I second the Suzuki method. It was created for children as young as 2 and can be very successful with young kids. The thought that a 4 year old's hands are "too small" for piano is just silly. I also highly endorse Kindermusic. This is a fabulous way to expose your child to music and make it really fun. Please keep encouraging your child. Too few parents make music and the arts a priority with their children and I believe that the world will suffer unless we start to change that.
posted by pearlybob at 4:10 AM on June 6, 2007

A 4 year old's hands and arms are too small for a piano, or in fact for most kinds of instruments. A kid that age also isn't strong enough. A recorder would be a good choice, but don't expect too much.

Ah, whatever you do, please, don't listen to this advice. And don't worry about whether your boy has "talent"; that's a sure-fire way of becoming one of "those parents". At about five years of age, kids generally know the difference between fake, toy instruments and real instruments that they see grownups playing. Girlhacker's advice regarding Kindermusik is sound. I'd also advise allowing (as much as is reasonable) your boy to choose his own instrument.

He will most definitely sound like crap for the first few years, but to you, he'll be brilliant.
posted by Avogadro at 4:39 AM on June 6, 2007

You might check out this book. Raising Musical Kids: A Guide for Parents

It gets great reviews. I have it in my wish list at Amazon.
posted by beccaj at 4:48 AM on June 6, 2007

I serve on the BOD of a music school - our school offers both the Kindermusik program mentioned above, as well as the Harmony Road program. It might be a function of the instructors, but I've noticed that kids seem to enjoy and stick with the Harmony Road program longer than the Kindermusik program, although both are excellent, age-appropriate intros to music.

I also second starting to learn piano at this age. Just be sure to find a piano teacher who has lots of experience teaching young children. It's easy to stress or burn out a young child if the wrong approach is taken. Both of my girls started piano at aged 4 and added on other instruments as they got older. I can't stress enough how positive the experience has been for both of them - there are numerous studies that show that musical training helps develop many skills seemingly unrelated to music.

I would encourage you to add other instruments later on if he shows interest - piano is a very solitary instrument, and most kids really enjoy the social aspect of playing in a group. (I just went to my daughter's Jazz band concert last night - there's something uniquely fun about seeing your 12-year old in sunglasses playing trumpet in a jazz band while the mostly-middle school audience whistles, hollers, and claps.)
posted by Flakypastry at 5:17 AM on June 6, 2007

I would second Suzuki, if there's a class near you. In my experience, parents are not required to participate, although that might be fun for you or your spouse. Also, just having all kinds of instruments around.
posted by MtDewd at 5:18 AM on June 6, 2007

This is obviously some years off, but I just want to advise you to of course get your child into the school band program as soon as that's available. In my area, the year you could start was 6th grade, and I only did it because my parents made me. Now, 6 years later (I just graduated), I can look back and realize that band was by far my favorite class and that it gave me a deep love of music. Since being in there I've picked up 3 instruments outside of what I play every day in school--so it's a good gateway.

For now, I would just go with the advice of the other posters. Letting the child pick his own instrument seems like it would be pretty important; no one really wants to play an instrument they don't like. I was kind of forced into playing French Horn as a 6th grader, and while I got some enjoyment out of it, I would have much rather been a drummer (and later on, this affected my choices...I learned how to play drums a few years ago, and it's much more fun to me than horn ever was.)

This also means being sensitive to your child's feelings as he grows older. He may like, say, keyboard now, but in 3-4 years his interests may change completely. If you want him to excel in music and enjoy it along the way, you've got to let him play whatever it is he wants to play.

Hope something in there helps.
posted by DMan at 7:16 AM on June 6, 2007

Get him one of those 50-100 dollar keyboards that you find at Target (or most other big-box stores). It'll allow him to play around with music, but won't be so expensive that you regret wasting the money if he doesn't show a lot of interest.
posted by chrisamiller at 7:47 AM on June 6, 2007

I agree about not pushing a child, but keeping them exposed. Try to foster the idea that music is a fun thing you can do together & something to enjoy instead of making the mistake a lot of parents do & letting him see it as a horrible chore that parents are forcing upon him.

There is a reason that most composers work at the piano. The range & octaves of an entire orchestra of instruments are there. Learning the piano also involves a lot more than just how to play a song since music is very mathematical and playing the piano involves understanding the spacial relationship between notes. So it's a good thing. But if he doesn't show interest at the piano, get him a kazoo. Get him anything that makes music and show him how fun it can be to make noise. Take him to concerts. Play music and involve him in it. Just make music a part of his life & see how he responds to it.

And I disagree with anyone who says 4 is too young to start playing around with the piano, though. I tried to bang out chords on my parent's piano when I was 3 & my little fingers didn't have any problem with it. I think my parents ears were probably the ones suffering.
posted by miss lynnster at 7:53 AM on June 6, 2007

I just wanted to offer a dissenting voice here and say that at my age (20), I know a lot of kids who play music. There's no scientific methodology here, but the ones who seem to most enjoy playing music, have the most fun improvising with friends, and whose lives seem most enriched by playing and hearing music are not usually the ones started on intensive lessons at around the age of your son. Kids I know with intensive musical training also seem so aware of the rules that they have trouble creating music of their own.

I agree more with the people who've said that you should keep a variety of instruments around & let him have a good time and do his own thing without worrying about whether he's going to grow up with perfect pitch, unless that's really what you want.
posted by ITheCosmos at 8:24 AM on June 6, 2007

I'd say that the most important factor in choosing a program to enrol him in is that it be something that encourages his love for making music rather than looks for any specific results/behaviour from him. There is probably such a program in your area (and it is my understanding that kindermusik does fit this description)
posted by winston at 8:38 AM on June 6, 2007

Agreed on early (and age-appropriate) piano lessons. This is the best way to learn basic concepts, and it also enables kids to start making music immediately. They can learn to pick out simple melodies very quickly.

Also: I think it's helpful if you play a wide variety of (recorded) music at home. My parents regularly played all sorts of classical, folk, and jazz, plus a little rock, when I was growing up. It broadened my musical horizons tremendously.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 10:12 AM on June 6, 2007

My 3-year old niece loves playing her little ashiko & banging on her daddy's djembes. (disclaimer: my husband & I make these drums). She can pound along with the music from a CD or just play on her own.

Remo also makes some fun kids' instruments, if you're looking for things like bongos & tamborines.
posted by belladonna at 10:35 AM on June 6, 2007

Our middle son sounds very much like yours. We have a huge basket of musical 'toys', a piano, a keyboard, record album, cd and cassette players, musical computer games, microphone stand, karoke machine, etc.

Piano lessons are the backbone of any musical education... if they learn piano they will easily learn other instruments. (to put it simply). Our son is now 6 and will start lessons this fall (teacher will not accept students under 6 no matter how 'talented').

Go into any music store and you'll find lots of fun stuff for kids. Or shop online at http://www.musiciansfriend.com (search kids, or children's, or by lower price).
posted by LadyBonita at 1:12 PM on June 6, 2007

adding a sixth vote to the chorus of people suggesting the SUZUKI METHOD. it's incredible. i highly recommend it.
parents do not have to learn the instrument at the same time, although it's fun and easy to and you'll enjoy it.

suzuki teaches music before page reading, with the analogy being that you teach a kid to speak before she can read. the kid passively listens to a CD of the repertoire every day (like duting playtime or homework), so the songs are familair and the kid is excited to play the songs they've heard on the CD.

the CD is played by a professional, who plays simply but beautifully, and the kid naturally wants to imitate the pro's perfect intonation and musicality. you can compare this to learning to sing by copying a great singer off a CD, rather than trying to understand a song from a paper diagram.

the kid learns musicianship, which makes for amazing little musicians who play with feeling and LOVE their lessons. it's GREAT. i was a suzuki kid and i adored it. i also took traditional lessons and didn't like them as much, even though i had a nice teacher.

regarding what instrument: as a musician myself, i suggest getting the kid an instrument that plays chords (that is, any instrument where you can play several notes at the same time, like piano, guitar, or harp). start him off there so he'll understand how different pitches interact. i started playing with a melody instrument (one that only plays 1 note at a time, like recorder, flute, most violin repertoire), and now as an adult, l find it harder to handle music with harmonies.
it's easier to learn chords first and then all melody instruments will make lots of sense- if you learn melody first, changing to chords is harder.

taking all this into account, i recommend suzuki piano.
posted by twistofrhyme at 1:19 PM on June 6, 2007

seconding wsg's advice to have lots of music around the house- a wide range of recordings to listen to, and a wide range of instruments to goof around on. let him play around, and i think it will become clear when and if his interest is going in a particular direction. then it might be time for some lessons/classes.

don't push him to do that unless it comes from him. as a cello teacher, i can tell you that in general, students who are doing it to please their parents don't take it anywhere and don't enjoy themselves.

and who knows, maybe having instruments around the house will inspire you or your wife to take up music lessons as well! it often works out really well when a parent/child team take lessons together and can struggle and help each other with the same challenges.

good luck and feel free to email me if you want more string-specific advice.
posted by purplefiber at 10:58 PM on June 6, 2007

Response by poster: Just a follow up. Boy in question got a ukulele from mum and dad and a kids Fisher Price-style keyboard from grandma and grandad.
The Uke was a compromise after Mrs Bystander decided a keyboard would be too noisy to live with. The Fisher Price keyboard was a surprise.
We have had many concerts since, and while technique is limited, the earnestness of the playing is intense.
After spending some time trying to teach some tunes like Mary had a little lamb on the keyboard, I'm thinking 4 is a bit young.
I hope to do better with my 6yro who has now perked up her interest after watching her brother having fun.
My other tip is a copy of Peter and the Wolf on CD - this is a cool music related present for this age.
posted by bystander at 10:26 PM on July 10, 2007