This happiness thing? It causes more problems than you'd think.

May 19, 2007 10:53 PM

Is it bad for me to mention the good things in my life around friends who are unhappy with theirs?

My life was kind of a mess up until the past year when I started trying to change things, and in the past couple of months, the results of that have kicked in, and things are going really well, and I'm finally happy and together, and it's new and weird, and quite cool.

I have a couple friends that I love spending time with, really enjoy talking to, they're my closest friends in town, and I think we make a really good support system for one another and have a lot of fun together. We're thirty-something single women, we do what a lot of women like us do -- we sit around bitching about men, our jobs, our debt, etc.

Lately, I've been really fortunate in that I've been meeting cool guys, I kinda like my job right now, and I can afford a nice condo. I'm excited about this stuff, and I want my friends to know about what's going on in my life. Yet whenever I mention any of it, even briefly, I get shut down. Either more complaining about their issues ensues or there are implications of my "poor little rich girl" status (which is just so wrong, so wrong), and I walk away from a conversation where I wanted to tell my friends some good news actually feeling bad about having done so.

So is this envy? I'm definitely not bragging about myself, these are just the things that come up naturally in a conversation. Am I not supposed to be sharing this stuff? Why should I feel guilty for sharing good news with my friends? Should I just edit my conversations and not talk about the good things going on in my life so as to not hurt their feelings? I don't understand how this is supposed to work.

posted by echo0720 to Health & Fitness (19 answers total)

The answer is trivial. You need richer and more successful friends. Sometimes the answer comes down to you can't go home again.
posted by Nabubrush at 11:13 PM on May 19, 2007

Well. Do you walk away feeling bad, or do they actually mean to intimate that you should feel bad for mentioning this stuff?

Your friends may have a bit of a character flaw (and um, 'poor little rich girl'? These are friends, right?) but there's nothing you can do about that I think.

The thing with friends is that all of them are different. You share emotional rapports with all of them, but you bring different things up with different people because you know they know/care more about issue A than B or have temperaments that don't react well to method X, and so on.

So:
I'd say both parties are at fault:
→ Your friends for grudging you or at least coming off like they do.
→ You for expecting to say the same things to different friends. Be sensitive to the fact that these friends are struggling right now. I remember a book called 'public speaking for all occasions' which had a sentence that went something like: "Ladies who have taste, as well as money, do not drip with diamonds when they visit their poor relatives." Not exactly analogous to your situation since you're trying to communicate natural things rather than showing stuff off but the point that you guys are in different places in life remains; modulate accordingly.
posted by Firas at 11:16 PM on May 19, 2007 [1 favorite]

Yeah, I totally skipped mentioning the 'get new close friends' part. That's what I meant to get at with the 'different relationships with different friends' notion. I'd say this is the most actionable issue. Get more friends. Seriously. Friendships fade in and out and that's ok.
posted by Firas at 11:18 PM on May 19, 2007 [1 favorite]

Be yourself, put them to the test. That's how you find out who your friends are (and how they find out if they really like you as you, not just as a 'commiserator').
This is predicated on the assumption (which I'm sure is the case) that you are indeed just sharing your happiness, not bragging.
posted by Abiezer at 12:11 AM on May 20, 2007

It's okay to feel good and want to talk about something other than how your job/men/life sucks. It's okay, even if there is a little bragging involved. Sometimes groups of unhappy people get caught in a cycle of one-downsmanship. Maybe you could spend less time w/ the group and more time w/ the friends who are less invested in their unhappiness.

Or, find totally new friends.
posted by betweenthebars at 12:52 AM on May 20, 2007 [1 favorite]

When I was in the middle of a big crisis with my kid, one friend would consistently tell me all about her kid's acomplishments. It was insensitive, it hurt, and it colored my feelings about her. If you have a friend with a problem, try to listen, help if you can, and maybe not point out your success in that area in that conversation.

That said, if you can't ever share your happiness, then your friends are doing the reverse - if you are happy about a guy, they can only talk about their bad experience - and that sucks. Take it one person at a time. If Friend A shoots you down when you talk about a great date, ask if Friend A is having a really bad time, and if not, just say, "Oh I just thought you'd want to hear about my great date." You may find that 1 specific person is driving the negativity, and may want to avoid that person. People who don't really care about your life aren't much fun as friends.

New condo + new dates + good job = many new friends opportunities. Give your current friends the chance to stay friends, and if they can't cope with your good fortune, move on.
posted by theora55 at 3:04 AM on May 20, 2007

Congratulations on getting your life together, and on your newfound happiness. I am really happy for you.

Sharing it with others is only natural. With your new positive outlook, people will be drawn to you. Take advantage of it and make some new friends who are not so mired.
posted by fake at 6:41 AM on May 20, 2007

Ditch 'em.
posted by jayder at 7:24 AM on May 20, 2007

There's nothing wrong with wanting to share and talk about your happiness. A lot of female conversation is based on an indirect back-and-forth "we're all equals" sort of balancing. When someone starts "troubles talk" about men, jobs, whatever, they are probably expecting you to reciprocate and will feel unequal/unbalanced, even resentful, if you do not. If one gets used to venting in a certain space/with certain people, they will feel shut down if someone else starts talking about how good their own life is going - because that's "one-up" on the venter, it's likely to be perceived as saying "oh I can't identify with your vent, I'm doing so much better than you".

It *is* insensitive to most people to immediately follow up someone's vent conversation (say, about men) with how-great-my-life-is conversation (I just got engaged to this wonderful man!) - but it doesn't sound like you're doing that - more like you just want to have the time you all reciprocally vent to be balanced with time to share all the good things going on in your lives.

Good friends can shift between "sharing vents" mode and "sharing good things" mode well. But these seem to be more "specific circumstance" friends - friends that have determined your get-togethers are venting space. When they vent and you don't, you're unbalancing them, and they'll retaliate. It sucks because you're not doing anything wrong, but you're subverting their expectation you will reciprocate on the level they've set (time to gripe) so they feel off-kilter.

If they can't ever reciprocate your happier talk then they're just going to drag you down and make you feel crummy. So I'd say limit your time with these friends to when you feel you can enjoy a gripe session with them, and find new friends that can shift between vent and happy modes with you better than these people can.
posted by Melinika at 7:41 AM on May 20, 2007 [1 favorite]

I'm going to chime in with a little different perspective. I don't think that your relationship with your friends needs to be all-bitching or all-glowing. However, if your friends are giving you subtle hints that you are tending to glow too much, there are really two options: 1) they are just catty bitches who like to complain (which has been well covered above), or 2) you are gloating too much for polite company.

Your friends are probably very happy for you. However, if all you ever talk about are your great condo, your great boyfriends, and your great job, you would definitely come off as a self-absorbed person to me. Don't you ever talk about some great movie you just saw, or cute little shops, or bitchy manicurists or something? Before you ditch your friends, maybe you need to reexamine what your common ground with them really is.
posted by MrZero at 8:07 AM on May 20, 2007

The last few years have been very difficult for me; one of those "more bad news than good" periods. There have been some intense times when I HATED hearing about how happy my friends were. BUT... they are still my friends. Rather than cut them off, or interrupt with more complaining, I would tell them I was happy for them, and ask more questions about their good news. Inside, I was dying. But true friendship demands that we rise above our selfishness. There were times I really could NOT endure the good news of others, so I would just maintain some distance.

If these people can't share in your joy, are they really your friends?

As I put my difficulties more and more in the past, I realize that I also have to distance myself more from some of my "friends." When I was miserable, they were good to have around, because they were miserable too, and we connected. Now that I am trying to move forward, sometimes these people drag me down when I should be happy. I had to ask myself "If I feel so crappy after being around them, what's the point?" I'd like to think I am helping by encouraging them, but at some point it becomes obvious that I can't do anything else for them.

I came to a point where I realized, very deliberately, I need new friends!

My true friends have remained true. They were sensitive when I was down. They could share good news without gloating, and commiserate without being being glum. They encouraged me without dismissing my difficulties.

If you are not gloating, if you are trying to be encouraging, and you get repaid with strife, envy, misery, rudeness, and disdain... yep... look for new friends. You don't have to cut the old friends off totally; but just be careful to protect yourself when dealing with them.
posted by The Deej at 8:33 AM on May 20, 2007 [3 favorites]

I just went through this recently. I used to hang out with a couple of old friends from high school. We used to sit around and bitch about being broke, crappy men, our crazy families and our shitty, pathetic lives

Then, within like a year, I fell in love with a smart, kind, hot guy; bought a house; started therapy to deal with my family; got a scholarship to go to grad school for free; got my financial shit together. Basically, things started going really well for me and it did not bode well for my old friends. When I did want to vent about a bad day or whatever, there was a lot of eye-rolling and sarcasm. Eventually, they became more outwardly mean to me and started making snarky comments about my boyfriend, about my house and implying that I was on the road to "yuppie-dom" and that I had "sold out" and lost some sort of credibility.

Eventually, I could not stand hanging out with these friends because of their negativity and growing hostility towards me. I quit hanging out with them, made some new girlfriends at school who are way more positive. We encourage each other and celebrate our successes in addition to sometimes bitching about stuff and supporting each other when bad things happens.

I think we just outgrow people sometimes.
posted by pluckysparrow at 8:38 AM on May 20, 2007 [1 favorite]

Since the majority of answers thus far are in the "ditch these toxic friends" camp, I thought I would at least offer an alternative perspective.

Part of being a good friend is being understanding of your friends feelings. Bringing up, for example, the great money you're earning since you got that promotion might not be the most sensitive thing to mention a few minutes after two of the friends in your group decided just to share an appetizer and water since rent is coming due and things are tight with them. If you know your good friend hasn't had anyone ask her out on a date in 3 years, maybe she isn't the best person in the world to discuss how dreamy your new boyfriend is with.

To give a real life example: It has always offended me to some degree that a particular friend of mine, who is one of my dearest friends who I have known for almost 15 years, has never seemed to take too much of an interest in my son who was born 2 1/2 years ago. But as someone who likes to think I am a good friend to *him* I understand that he and his wife have fertility issues that prevent them from having kids of their own and I'm sure every time he sees my son or hears me going on and on about my boy it is in some way a reminder of his own disappointment in this area.

Sure, it's great to share good news with friends, and I agree that if these people have absolutely zero capacity to share in your joy and only seem to like you when you are as miserable as them, maybe it's time to move on.

But it might be useful to analyze your own behavior here to determine how you might be coming off to them. Are you truly just bringing up these good things in your life organically during the course of conversation? Or, looking at it from their perspective, does it come off as gloating, rubbing what you know you have that they don't in their faces?
posted by The Gooch at 9:23 AM on May 20, 2007

Response by poster: Don't you ever talk about some great movie you just saw, or cute little shops, or bitchy manicurists or something? Before you ditch your friends, maybe you need to reexamine what your common ground with them really is.

In response to this...we have fun together doing all sorts of things, we talk about a lot of things, the majority of the time we spend together is fun, it's just that when these particular topics of conversation come up, I end up feeling bad. And honestly, I don't brag, but when someone asks me how my date last night was, for example, I get excited and tell them about this guy and why I liked him. Same goes for the condo hunting, or how work is going. I sometimes feel like I need to just be more flippant about things, like "Yeah, it was good" and change the topic of conversation. I don't know, is that what I'm supposed to do?

I don't want to ditch these friends, I really like them, I think they're really good people, and I care about them - that's why I'm asking this. It's not just that I don't want to feel bad, I also don't want my friends to feel bad. Does that make sense?
posted by echo0720 at 11:08 AM on May 20, 2007

if you want friends who can be truly supportive, these guy obviously are not.

that doesn't make them bad people - just people with limitations.

you don't have to dump them - just be aware that there are limits to the kinds of friends they can be. so continue to hang out with them and have fun... but realise that when they ask how you're doing, they don't really want to know.

in the meantime find another source of support that can genuinely be happy for your happiness, because you deserve it.
posted by wayward vagabond at 11:23 AM on May 20, 2007

I don't know, is that what I'm supposed to do?

I don't want to ditch these friends, I really like them, I think they're really good people, and I care about them - that's why I'm asking this. It's not just that I don't want to feel bad, I also don't want my friends to feel bad. Does that make sense?
posted by echo0720

It makes sense. I replied earlier in a semi-"ditch the friends" manner because it's obvious from your question, and the way you asked, and the very fact that you are concerned enough to ask, that you are probably not rubbing their noses in it, or being insensitive.

If that's the case: you are not being insensitive; you are being compassionate; you are not bragging or boasting... and they still can't seem to bring themselves to at least be happy for you, or even FAKE IT out of politeness, as I did, then, yeah, what's the point?

I had a particular friend that I had to keep asking myself "Why do I feel so crappy every time we have contact? Why do I put up with rudeness that I wouldn't put up with from anyone else? Why is THIS person more rude to me than any other friend?" And the crazy thing was, I would WANT to be around this person, because I am a loyal person. But... there is a point of no return. I have not "written them off" but I keep things very casual, and don't open myself as much as I used to.

You MUST protect yourself. It's your responsibility. Stay healthy, and you can stay in a place to encourage these people later, when they are open to it.

Part of the issue is probably that you are seeking their approval or affirmation. This is normal; we want the approval of our friends. But... it's just not coming. I don't think you are the one who is cutting things off, I think they are, by their attitudes and actions.

I don't recommend "ditching" or cutting them off. But find more friends, be nice to your old ones, and maybe one day things will settle in a little better. Don't burn your bridges.
posted by The Deej at 11:50 AM on May 20, 2007

So is this envy? I'm definitely not bragging about myself, these are just the things that come up naturally in a conversation.

Some women get very envious if you are happy and confident. It matters little if you also have your own problems. They are only good friends for women who are not very happy or very confident. If you try to keep a friend like this, one day she will find a way to hurt you, not out of personal gain for herself, but simply because it makes her feel better about herself to hurt you.

Get new friends who put their energy into doing something about things instead of bitching. They are out there, and they are a lot more fun.
posted by yohko at 11:58 AM on May 20, 2007

Like the Smiths song says, We Hate it When Our Friends Become Successful.

I would say that you should gage how much you can share with different friends.

For example, my close friend of many years has had terrible luck in the dating world whereas I have been luckier in that arena but have struggled financially. Since she's moved on to a new, very high-paying job (I assume), she has stopped sharing how much she makes and has barely mentioned her new apartment in downtown Manhattan. By the same token I try not to gloat over how hot and successful the new guy I'm dating is. I will tell her what's going on my life, but try to remain sensitive and understate the details if I feel it might make her feel bad.

It's natural to want to share with others, but keep in mind that your relationships with these people developed partly out of your shared experiences...and it is only natural that they feel twinges of jealousy or come to feel that you're growing apart as your lives become more dissimilar. The key is to focus on the things you DO have in common.

Your NEW friends are the ones that you can share more of the details with, and with any luck, they will happily accept your success since that's all they know.
posted by mintchip at 12:24 PM on May 20, 2007

Sometimes it's hard to be happy for your friends when your own situation sucks. I don't know you, or your friends, but they might just be jealous. It happens to the best of us. As mintchip said, focus on your commonalities. If you find you don't have any, the friendship might naturally disintigrate and you'll find new friends to share with.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 7:08 AM on May 21, 2007