How can I stop being a snobbish jerk about music?
March 18, 2007 4:52 PM Subscribe
I'd like to be able to respect and enjoy people who like music that I think is lame, and listen to said music without making a lot of snarky comments. How can I stop being thirteen freaking years old about this?
I was really, really snotty about music as a teenager, to the point where I was pretty insufferable. I've broadened my musical taste a lot in the last couple of years, and I'd like to think I'm a lot less self-congratulatory about the bands I like, but I still find I have a hard time respecting people who like music I think is boring - and listening to boring music makes me antsy and irrationally angry.
My boyfriend likes a lot of music that I find really dull and irritating, and I like a lot of music that he finds weird and grating, and it's caused a decent bit of strife. I really want to be more tolerant, but he turns on the radio and it's like I just go nuts with how annoyed I get and lash out. We have been able to find very little common ground. I think we'd like to like each other's music, but I'm starting to feel like that's hopeless. I just want to overcome my weird hostility/anger toward people who like music I dislike.
I was hoping my adoration of my boy would help, but it only keeps my mouth shut about half the time and the other half, I find myself saying hurtful things just to make the complaint rock stop. So, if you were a music snob as a kid who's since mellowed, how did you do it?
I was really, really snotty about music as a teenager, to the point where I was pretty insufferable. I've broadened my musical taste a lot in the last couple of years, and I'd like to think I'm a lot less self-congratulatory about the bands I like, but I still find I have a hard time respecting people who like music I think is boring - and listening to boring music makes me antsy and irrationally angry.
My boyfriend likes a lot of music that I find really dull and irritating, and I like a lot of music that he finds weird and grating, and it's caused a decent bit of strife. I really want to be more tolerant, but he turns on the radio and it's like I just go nuts with how annoyed I get and lash out. We have been able to find very little common ground. I think we'd like to like each other's music, but I'm starting to feel like that's hopeless. I just want to overcome my weird hostility/anger toward people who like music I dislike.
I was hoping my adoration of my boy would help, but it only keeps my mouth shut about half the time and the other half, I find myself saying hurtful things just to make the complaint rock stop. So, if you were a music snob as a kid who's since mellowed, how did you do it?
I've been married for 23 years to a woman whose taste in music is very divergent from mine. It can be done.
We listen to music in different parts of the house, or at different times. I use headphones sometimes, though not often.
There is a relatively small area of intersect, which I will use for certain times (meals and the like).
Most importantly, I make no comments and she makes none. Well, almost none. For the most part, we agree to disagree.
posted by yclipse at 5:04 PM on March 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
We listen to music in different parts of the house, or at different times. I use headphones sometimes, though not often.
There is a relatively small area of intersect, which I will use for certain times (meals and the like).
Most importantly, I make no comments and she makes none. Well, almost none. For the most part, we agree to disagree.
posted by yclipse at 5:04 PM on March 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
I'm an insufferable music snob, but I find there comes a point where you realise that it's so subjective that you can rant at someone all you like, it's not going to change their tastes.
With people I care about particularly, it just got tiresome and I got over it... Can't really find the advice on how to, I just had to.
The radio still makes me want to throttle people, but I tend to have an mp3 player with me so I can drown it out.
Also, as a musician, there came a point where I figured that anyone who cared about music, no matter how bad it is, and anyone making music, again no matter how bad it is, is a hundred times more deserving of respect than those who put out dreadful, soulless, pop crap. If there's heart there, I can respect it to a degree, and support it. I'd rather people loved what they are doing/writing/listening to than are in it just for the cash...
So I guess it's all about soul. If you care like that, and your boyfriend doesn't have a soul when it comes to music, either you will come to live with it, or there's a fairly fundamental difference in your personalities...
posted by opsin at 5:05 PM on March 18, 2007
With people I care about particularly, it just got tiresome and I got over it... Can't really find the advice on how to, I just had to.
The radio still makes me want to throttle people, but I tend to have an mp3 player with me so I can drown it out.
Also, as a musician, there came a point where I figured that anyone who cared about music, no matter how bad it is, and anyone making music, again no matter how bad it is, is a hundred times more deserving of respect than those who put out dreadful, soulless, pop crap. If there's heart there, I can respect it to a degree, and support it. I'd rather people loved what they are doing/writing/listening to than are in it just for the cash...
So I guess it's all about soul. If you care like that, and your boyfriend doesn't have a soul when it comes to music, either you will come to live with it, or there's a fairly fundamental difference in your personalities...
posted by opsin at 5:05 PM on March 18, 2007
If your tastes are so narrow that you really only like a few things in music then the problem is you, not other people's music. Open your horizons by listening to really good music from genres that you know nothing about. It might help you open up a bit in the genres you are most comfortable with. If you don't listen to jazz, try immersing yourself in Miles Davis, Coltrane etc. Life is too big to restrict yourself to just a few things, but the only way to get outside the comfort zone in which you are imprisoned is to keep trying what you didn't like the first time. Rely on the fact that so many others have found the greats to be great and eventually you will find a whole new world. Then you can go beyond the greats to the cool little avant-guard corners of that genre if you like. Just remember, often, being avant-guard is more about feeling cool about yourself than about great music. Yes, the music is great, but so is a lot of other stuff, but many people are just too uncomfortable with their own selves to give up the crutch of the cutting edge. Cut the edge for the quality, not for your own sense of hipness and you will enjoy it more. Skip the pretense to enjoy what others enjoy.
posted by caddis at 5:06 PM on March 18, 2007
posted by caddis at 5:06 PM on March 18, 2007
Response by poster: yclipse, what about on long car rides? Boyfriend is of the opinion that driver chooses the music, but he almost always drives (see my most recent question for my massive car issues). This is where most of our fights about music have occurred. It's fine when we're in a place with NPR, but if we're dependent on iPods it can get pretty tense.
posted by crinklebat at 5:08 PM on March 18, 2007
posted by crinklebat at 5:08 PM on March 18, 2007
Response by poster: caddis, I have developed pretty broad tastes and pretty much the only area I dislike is the area my boyfriend likes. This is our big problem. If he would listen to jazz, or rap, or dance music, or beepy techno, or pre-1985 punk, or funk, or show tunes, or psychedelic rock, or bluegrass, or mariachi, we could find some common ground. He just really likes sort of basic guitars-and-male-singer stuff from about 1990 on, which is a sound I've gotten really sick of. It seems like I could find some common ground where we could listen to old punk that's influenced the music he likes, but he doesn't like the production values.
Because I'm such a heinous bitch about this, he doesn't even want to listen to my musical suggestions anymore. I've made my own bed, and now I'm just trying to find ways to lie in it.
posted by crinklebat at 5:15 PM on March 18, 2007
Because I'm such a heinous bitch about this, he doesn't even want to listen to my musical suggestions anymore. I've made my own bed, and now I'm just trying to find ways to lie in it.
posted by crinklebat at 5:15 PM on March 18, 2007
Sounds like a bummer. Seems like the only solution is to avoid the topic as much as possible. Some people know what they like and like what they know.
posted by ludwig_van at 5:17 PM on March 18, 2007
posted by ludwig_van at 5:17 PM on March 18, 2007
Best answer: I find that in most things in relationships the best thing to do is always to model the behavior that you would like to see in the other person. Therefore, your best bet is to offer your ears to you fella's tastes first. Always be open and accepting. If, after some time, he doesn't reciprocate, you are not in the right relationship.
posted by mmahaffie at 5:17 PM on March 18, 2007 [3 favorites]
posted by mmahaffie at 5:17 PM on March 18, 2007 [3 favorites]
But you can always make new friends on the internet!
posted by ludwig_van at 5:18 PM on March 18, 2007
posted by ludwig_van at 5:18 PM on March 18, 2007
1. Find musical overlap. A big turning point in my current relationship was when I showed my country-luvin' girl that Mike Ness could do country-punk. It also helped that I showed I was trying to meet her halfway (which, to be fair, she hadn't).
2. Think not so much of the music, but of the feelings you have when you're around this person. Now, whenever some poppy girl-country comes on, I tend to smile a bit, because I'm thinking of my girlfriend.
3. When you find this music, make mix CDs. I make my girl a mix CD once in a while, of music I think she'll like and of music that makes me think of her. My gf loves when I do this, because music is a big part of her life, too, and it means a lot to her that I'm making the effort to share (and I usually take months of painstaking song selection to make a CD for her, so the appreciation is somewhat warranted). YMMV.
posted by Eideteker at 5:19 PM on March 18, 2007
2. Think not so much of the music, but of the feelings you have when you're around this person. Now, whenever some poppy girl-country comes on, I tend to smile a bit, because I'm thinking of my girlfriend.
3. When you find this music, make mix CDs. I make my girl a mix CD once in a while, of music I think she'll like and of music that makes me think of her. My gf loves when I do this, because music is a big part of her life, too, and it means a lot to her that I'm making the effort to share (and I usually take months of painstaking song selection to make a CD for her, so the appreciation is somewhat warranted). YMMV.
posted by Eideteker at 5:19 PM on March 18, 2007
Just a couple ideas:
1) Can you try to play any of the music (guitar, piano, etc.)? There are many pieces of music I did not appreciate until I tried to play them - you find the subtlety, difficulty, etc., and this can range from accoustics, guitar, etc.
2). Have the other person explain or tell you why they like that particular piece of music. I have found sometimes the person will point out lyrics, why the piece is important in a historical context, etc. Really helps me appreciate the music.
3). Many years ago, a music high school teacher told my class that if we found a piece of music funny or stupid - that was probably because we did not understand it. I still hold that point of view. I do not appreciate most country or opera, but I view it as a problem I have, not the music or the listeners who appreciate the music. Someday, if I study it and make the attempt to understand it, I can and will enjoy it.
Finally, if you have an ipod on these long trips - and you are both ok with NPR - why not download the podcasts from NPR and play those on the trip?
posted by Wolfster at 5:22 PM on March 18, 2007 [3 favorites]
1) Can you try to play any of the music (guitar, piano, etc.)? There are many pieces of music I did not appreciate until I tried to play them - you find the subtlety, difficulty, etc., and this can range from accoustics, guitar, etc.
2). Have the other person explain or tell you why they like that particular piece of music. I have found sometimes the person will point out lyrics, why the piece is important in a historical context, etc. Really helps me appreciate the music.
3). Many years ago, a music high school teacher told my class that if we found a piece of music funny or stupid - that was probably because we did not understand it. I still hold that point of view. I do not appreciate most country or opera, but I view it as a problem I have, not the music or the listeners who appreciate the music. Someday, if I study it and make the attempt to understand it, I can and will enjoy it.
Finally, if you have an ipod on these long trips - and you are both ok with NPR - why not download the podcasts from NPR and play those on the trip?
posted by Wolfster at 5:22 PM on March 18, 2007 [3 favorites]
Consider satelite radio, you'll never be without NPR.
I can relate. My husband also loves the 90s male rock stuff. He also loves 80s metal. I can be quite intolerant in the car if I have to listen to this crap, I mean music.
I can very much relate to yclipse's comment. I try not to complain. I did vocalize my distaste when we first started dating years ago. That led to a road trip with my now husband listening to Metallica through headphones for a big chunk of the trip.
These days I respect his likes and dislikes and we take turns listening to music. He will play a CD, I'll play one, or even a couple songs each, or a CD we both enjoy.
After all of these years I can appreciate Guns N' Roses and Metallica -- when I'm in the mood.
Try to give him a break, if you're critisizing his tastes, you're critisizing him.
posted by LoriFLA at 5:40 PM on March 18, 2007
I can relate. My husband also loves the 90s male rock stuff. He also loves 80s metal. I can be quite intolerant in the car if I have to listen to this crap, I mean music.
I can very much relate to yclipse's comment. I try not to complain. I did vocalize my distaste when we first started dating years ago. That led to a road trip with my now husband listening to Metallica through headphones for a big chunk of the trip.
These days I respect his likes and dislikes and we take turns listening to music. He will play a CD, I'll play one, or even a couple songs each, or a CD we both enjoy.
After all of these years I can appreciate Guns N' Roses and Metallica -- when I'm in the mood.
Try to give him a break, if you're critisizing his tastes, you're critisizing him.
posted by LoriFLA at 5:40 PM on March 18, 2007
I know from where you are coming crinklebat. My brother and sister-in-law, both of whom I love as dearly as my own brother and sisters, love country, not just any country, the top 40 stuff. It's not me. Yeah, the music grates a little, but I really like hanging out with them, so I ignore it. When it comes to country I have failed to progress beyond Hank Williams (Sr., Junior is a hack in my opinion). So, yes, I am opinionated as anyone about the music, but you know, give it a chance and even the crap can please you. Kiss does not have millions upon millions of fans for nothing. I think they are all completely deluded or insane, but sometimes, just every now and then, when that one big hit of theirs comes on, I fail to change the station. Unclench, it will make you so much happier. (over time I am guessing your bf becomes a huge fan of the music you like now, but that might take a few years, it is funny how these things work, and of course you might even find that a few of those cheesy bands he likes have something going for them)
posted by caddis at 5:46 PM on March 18, 2007
posted by caddis at 5:46 PM on March 18, 2007
If someone told you they were getting in fights with their SO over the music on the car radio, would you really think the music was the problem?
posted by smackfu at 5:54 PM on March 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by smackfu at 5:54 PM on March 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
To expand upon what Eideteker said, try not to focus so much on appreciating the technical strengths or anything, but the memories you have with it.
Focus on making positive memories to go along with your boyfriend's favorite songs, rather than thinking of all the arguments you have everytime he plays something he likes.
Over the course of a vacation with friends, this is how I came to tolerate (and mildly enjoy) some really terrible pop-country music.
posted by fermezporte at 5:56 PM on March 18, 2007
Focus on making positive memories to go along with your boyfriend's favorite songs, rather than thinking of all the arguments you have everytime he plays something he likes.
Over the course of a vacation with friends, this is how I came to tolerate (and mildly enjoy) some really terrible pop-country music.
posted by fermezporte at 5:56 PM on March 18, 2007
Make mix Cd's for him.. 90% of stuff he likes..and a couple suprise/bonus tracks of stuff you think he might like. Start as close as you can to his style.. and slowly broaden out..
Course.. my honest open.. you cant force culture on people who arent open minded enough to try it... so... if its that big of an issue... get a new bf?
posted by jmnugent at 5:56 PM on March 18, 2007
I used to be really ridiculously critical about people's musical tastes, which is okay until you have a SO. Here's one idea - make it a game.
So you say your boy likes guitar+male singer songs. Since you're more musically enlightened than he, rifle through your music collection to see if you can find a few artists that he might like, or at least a few songs.
So in my case, I listened to what she would play in her room, got my DJ hat on and started brainstorming about what kind of music she would like. It was generally hit-or-miss, but
a) sometimes it was a hit and then I had something we both could enjoy listening to together
b) she appreciated the effort and thoughtfulness
c) she became more interested in some of my weird "music" and actually put me up on a few joints I otherwise would never have found
d) all of the above.
All in all, a beautiful thing.
And if you're at all musically inclined, you could try remixing one of these awful songs and turning it into some nasty IDM emo-soup. This I wouldn't recommend if it's their favorite song. It's a funny way to make people angry though.
posted by dihutenosa at 5:58 PM on March 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
So you say your boy likes guitar+male singer songs. Since you're more musically enlightened than he, rifle through your music collection to see if you can find a few artists that he might like, or at least a few songs.
So in my case, I listened to what she would play in her room, got my DJ hat on and started brainstorming about what kind of music she would like. It was generally hit-or-miss, but
a) sometimes it was a hit and then I had something we both could enjoy listening to together
b) she appreciated the effort and thoughtfulness
c) she became more interested in some of my weird "music" and actually put me up on a few joints I otherwise would never have found
d) all of the above.
All in all, a beautiful thing.
And if you're at all musically inclined, you could try remixing one of these awful songs and turning it into some nasty IDM emo-soup. This I wouldn't recommend if it's their favorite song. It's a funny way to make people angry though.
posted by dihutenosa at 5:58 PM on March 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
I'm going to suggest that you look at the equipment on which you play music frequently, very carefully. Many young women are quite sensitive to high frequency noise and distortion, to a degree men have real trouble understanding. Your hearing at 13Khz and above maybe as much as 6 to 12 db more acute (2 to 6 times, in absolute sound pressure terms) than his, and you will therefore be much more aware of various kinds of electronic distortion and noise. Some of these are added locally by your playback equipment, so you can benefit by improved equipment which generates less distortion, and provides smoother more accurate high frequency response. That may go a long way to making "his" music tolerable to you. In addition, you could make sure any "loudness" controls are off (they boost both the bass and the treble portions of the music spectrum, to compensate at low volume, for the human ear's non-linear response to absolute sound power, but too often, the loudness contours overcompensate), and you can make sure any equalizers, tone controls, loudspeaker settings, etc. are set for "flat" (non-emphasized) response. You could turn the music down slightly in volume, to keep the amplifiers from "clipping" on signal peaks (because of the human ear's non-linear power response, a 50% drop in signal power level will only be percieved as a -3db drop in loudness, or about the 3 times the smallest possible percievable change), because "clipping" generally produces awful, non-musical kinds of noise with disproportionate high frequency components, before it becomes grossly noticeable to untrained ears. Your boyfriend may complain that "his" music needs to be loud, and "pumped," but if you find it is tolerable when played at lesser settings, and intolerable at higher settings, you'll at least know it's the distortion and not the music that is objectionable to you. And you may save your hearing, as well as your relationship in the process.
If you listen to music in mp3 form, use lower compression settings, and use variable bit rate encoding (VBR) instead of constant bit rate encoding. There are audible quality differences between 128/44 stereo mp3 rips, and VBR/44 rips, where the bit rate can go up to 360kb when it needs to. You can use the combination of Exact Audio Copy and lame to produce VBR rips on your own, and they'll generally take very little, if any more storage space than 128K constant rate files. You may also want to use ReplayGain on your mp3 library to normalize volume settings across all your library. Because of the loudness war, more and more commercial recordings are appearing which actually violate accepted standards for digital recording headroom, and ReplayGain attempts to level the playing field, so that you don't have to constantly jockey your volume knob, or suffer accordingly.
posted by paulsc at 6:05 PM on March 18, 2007 [2 favorites]
If you listen to music in mp3 form, use lower compression settings, and use variable bit rate encoding (VBR) instead of constant bit rate encoding. There are audible quality differences between 128/44 stereo mp3 rips, and VBR/44 rips, where the bit rate can go up to 360kb when it needs to. You can use the combination of Exact Audio Copy and lame to produce VBR rips on your own, and they'll generally take very little, if any more storage space than 128K constant rate files. You may also want to use ReplayGain on your mp3 library to normalize volume settings across all your library. Because of the loudness war, more and more commercial recordings are appearing which actually violate accepted standards for digital recording headroom, and ReplayGain attempts to level the playing field, so that you don't have to constantly jockey your volume knob, or suffer accordingly.
posted by paulsc at 6:05 PM on March 18, 2007 [2 favorites]
Find a new boyfriend. Alternately - try to work with what he likes, and dig up something from your collection that he might find vaguely acceptable. Then just work your way up. In the worst-case scenario, you'll just have to accept his tastes, which sucks, but it's far better than him not listening to music at all.
(Have you read High Fidelity? You might be able to relate. At least he doesn't like Simply Red.)
posted by punchdrunkhistory at 6:27 PM on March 18, 2007
(Have you read High Fidelity? You might be able to relate. At least he doesn't like Simply Red.)
posted by punchdrunkhistory at 6:27 PM on March 18, 2007
If you think the problem is your inability to refrain from commenting on music you dislike, here's a solution. With your left hand, force your mouth open as wide as you can without hurting your jaw. With your right hand, hold your tongue. With enough practice, you'll find you can hold your tongue without a helping hand.
Otherwise, practice tuning the music out: occupy your mind with other things than what you're listening to. On long rides, think through plans or thoughts or conversations you've left unfinished, or engage him in conversations that are interesting enough that he won't mind it when you turn the music down a little (or even a lot). Learn to enjoy silence together.
Or try listening to music that neither of you like: pick up some tunes you've heard are good, but have no idea how they sound, and present them as such. If the issue is "my music vs. yours," the battle can be fierce, and the attendant snobbery can feel like a real putdown. Mount a campaign to mix up your tastes as well as his. Rome wasn't burnt in a day.
posted by breezeway at 6:48 PM on March 18, 2007
Otherwise, practice tuning the music out: occupy your mind with other things than what you're listening to. On long rides, think through plans or thoughts or conversations you've left unfinished, or engage him in conversations that are interesting enough that he won't mind it when you turn the music down a little (or even a lot). Learn to enjoy silence together.
Or try listening to music that neither of you like: pick up some tunes you've heard are good, but have no idea how they sound, and present them as such. If the issue is "my music vs. yours," the battle can be fierce, and the attendant snobbery can feel like a real putdown. Mount a campaign to mix up your tastes as well as his. Rome wasn't burnt in a day.
posted by breezeway at 6:48 PM on March 18, 2007
Can you give some examples of what he likes? Perhaps we might be able to suggest things that he'd enjoy which you wouldn't find totally objectionable.
posted by myeviltwin at 7:03 PM on March 18, 2007
posted by myeviltwin at 7:03 PM on March 18, 2007
Can you talk about how it may be unfair that he's choosing (almost) all the music when you two are stuck together in a small, inescapable place? "The driver chooses the music" is not a particularly good way for a romantic partnership to function on a daily basis; it's not a cross-country trip where you're switching drivers a lot, or a group of friends that are always taking turns driving.
If the car is the major battleground, see if you can do something to make that particular venue less so rather than trying to make over your (or his) entire personality. Even if it just means not listening to any music when you're in the car together.
posted by occhiblu at 7:51 PM on March 18, 2007
If the car is the major battleground, see if you can do something to make that particular venue less so rather than trying to make over your (or his) entire personality. Even if it just means not listening to any music when you're in the car together.
posted by occhiblu at 7:51 PM on March 18, 2007
Response by poster: 23skidoo, I'm 21, but I'd like to outgrow this *yesterday*. I recognize that dissing on others' tunes is a dick move and I'd rather deal with the feelings behind it and become a bigger person than just shut up and think derogatory thoughts.
myeviltwin, off the top of my head, some of his favorite bands are Counting Crows, Something Corporate, Goo Goo Dolls, Snow Patrol, Dashboard Confessional, Death Cab for Cutie, Dave Matthews Band, and a few others. He will listen to any "alternative music" radio station, as well. Among these bands, a few of them sing some songs I can enjoy. However, in general, the thing I find objectionable is the voices of the vocalists. In particular, the whining "emo voice" grates on my nerves to the point where I get pretty frantic - and that seems to be his favorite part about these bands, if you can believe it. I'm honestly just sick of Dave Matthews and Counting Crows...I was fine with them ten years ago or more, but they were overplayed on the radio stations I liked at the time, and just sound stale to me at this point. Boyfriend didn't start listening to popular music as young as I did (his parents mandated classical music until an uncommonly late age), so I think he imprinted on these guys as an older teen and they'll just never get old for him.
posted by crinklebat at 8:06 PM on March 18, 2007
myeviltwin, off the top of my head, some of his favorite bands are Counting Crows, Something Corporate, Goo Goo Dolls, Snow Patrol, Dashboard Confessional, Death Cab for Cutie, Dave Matthews Band, and a few others. He will listen to any "alternative music" radio station, as well. Among these bands, a few of them sing some songs I can enjoy. However, in general, the thing I find objectionable is the voices of the vocalists. In particular, the whining "emo voice" grates on my nerves to the point where I get pretty frantic - and that seems to be his favorite part about these bands, if you can believe it. I'm honestly just sick of Dave Matthews and Counting Crows...I was fine with them ten years ago or more, but they were overplayed on the radio stations I liked at the time, and just sound stale to me at this point. Boyfriend didn't start listening to popular music as young as I did (his parents mandated classical music until an uncommonly late age), so I think he imprinted on these guys as an older teen and they'll just never get old for him.
posted by crinklebat at 8:06 PM on March 18, 2007
Boyfriend is of the opinion that driver chooses the music, but he almost always drives
You're not the one being the dick here, sorry. Forcing someone to listen to music you know they don't like without being fair and allowing them to play the music they like under the guise of "I drive, I choose" is the dick move. I suggest that the problem isn't so much that you don't like his music, but that he's being an unreasonable jerk about this and that's making you hate his music a whole lot more than you might otherwise.
I'm a bit sensitive about this, granted, because while I have pretty wildly diverse tastes in music (the only kind I don't like is the kind I don't like), when I really don't like something, I really don't like it, but I'll tolerate it if that's what it takes to be fair (unless it's Modest Mouse). If someone were forcing it on me...I wouldn't be so tolerant.
Alternately, get a set of noise-canceling headphones for your iPod and listen to your music in the car and let him play his little authoritarian games to his own soundtrack.
posted by biscotti at 8:32 PM on March 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
You're not the one being the dick here, sorry. Forcing someone to listen to music you know they don't like without being fair and allowing them to play the music they like under the guise of "I drive, I choose" is the dick move. I suggest that the problem isn't so much that you don't like his music, but that he's being an unreasonable jerk about this and that's making you hate his music a whole lot more than you might otherwise.
I'm a bit sensitive about this, granted, because while I have pretty wildly diverse tastes in music (the only kind I don't like is the kind I don't like), when I really don't like something, I really don't like it, but I'll tolerate it if that's what it takes to be fair (unless it's Modest Mouse). If someone were forcing it on me...I wouldn't be so tolerant.
Alternately, get a set of noise-canceling headphones for your iPod and listen to your music in the car and let him play his little authoritarian games to his own soundtrack.
posted by biscotti at 8:32 PM on March 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
Boyfriend is of the opinion that driver chooses the music, but he almost always drives
This is indeed horseshit.
That sort of rigid "driver chooses" only works if both parties are frequently taking turns behind the wheel. If he's almost always driving and he picks stuff that isn't at least tolerable to both of you, he's being a dick, pure and simple.
Either that, or he wants you to do more of the driving and is being passive-aggressive about it. Which is still being a dick, just a different sort.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:42 PM on March 18, 2007
This is indeed horseshit.
That sort of rigid "driver chooses" only works if both parties are frequently taking turns behind the wheel. If he's almost always driving and he picks stuff that isn't at least tolerable to both of you, he's being a dick, pure and simple.
Either that, or he wants you to do more of the driving and is being passive-aggressive about it. Which is still being a dick, just a different sort.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:42 PM on March 18, 2007
Best answer: Maybe you should try thinking about music in terms other than "good" and "bad"-- a kind of categorizing which refuses to acknowledge that music-makers have different intents, tastes, talents, influences, and audiences. Strike the word "bad" from your assessments and instead replace it with "ridiculous," "unaware," "incoherent," "masturbatory," etc. It is difficult to appreciate bad music, but it is so, so easy to appreciate ridiculous, unaware, incoherent, masturbatory music. And if you find ironic enjoyment odious, then consider that in the place of irony, music can be listened to with a wide-eyed amazement that man, whoa, people are different, and what must it be like in Fergie's head? Or Akon's? Or Rihanna, who has the most unpleasant voice and vocal technique I have ever heard, and whose songs awaken in my imagination scenes of a gruesome abortion somehow being made liquid and flowing into my human ear? Or that dude who rhymed "paperback novel" and "Hollywood horror"? Imagine what sort of mental and philosophical circumstances lead a person to believe that remaking "She's Like the Wind" as a droning R&B monstrosity will somehow add richness to the lives of listeners! What I mean to say is, there is great pleasure to be found in contemplating the truly vacuous, the actually inane. These contemplations make my own life so joyful, I wish you would join me in them.
And on preview, it seems that your boyfriend is presenting you with an actual world of wonderment which could be yours for the taking. Dave Matthews, with his face like a little ejaculating faun! Adam Duritz, with his whirling topknot of hair-poo and intermittent primal moos! My God, enjoy them, we will all be dead soon, and there are no jizzing fauns in heaven, and no Adam Duritzes either, where the angels all sound like Joanna Newsom and all the hair is gold.
posted by Powerful Religious Baby at 8:48 PM on March 18, 2007 [9 favorites]
And on preview, it seems that your boyfriend is presenting you with an actual world of wonderment which could be yours for the taking. Dave Matthews, with his face like a little ejaculating faun! Adam Duritz, with his whirling topknot of hair-poo and intermittent primal moos! My God, enjoy them, we will all be dead soon, and there are no jizzing fauns in heaven, and no Adam Duritzes either, where the angels all sound like Joanna Newsom and all the hair is gold.
posted by Powerful Religious Baby at 8:48 PM on March 18, 2007 [9 favorites]
This is indeed horseshit.
Not in all cases. It's unacceptable to think someone ought to drive with music on that is either actively distracting or sleep-inducing. Unless you like being in car accidents.
posted by oaf at 8:56 PM on March 18, 2007
Not in all cases. It's unacceptable to think someone ought to drive with music on that is either actively distracting or sleep-inducing. Unless you like being in car accidents.
posted by oaf at 8:56 PM on March 18, 2007
(But I am lucky enough to be in a relationship with someone whose musical tastes are generally compatible with mine.)
posted by oaf at 8:56 PM on March 18, 2007
posted by oaf at 8:56 PM on March 18, 2007
First off, a life lesson long and hard learned: trying to get someone to appreciate something good that they just don't like is just pointless frustration. You think and you think and you think they must "get" how great it is and they just don't, generally.
Many moons ago I had a couple of significantly long car trips where musical intersection was unlikely, and what really worked for that was books on tape. Decent libraries have lots of books on tape and CD.
Controlling outbursts is the work of a lifetime, seriously. It mainly involves pinpointing this tiny little moment when a tiny little voice says "let it go," and then listening to that voice. All parts of this process are difficult.
Is give and take a possibility? My wife and I really have to do this on the veg-out teevee. There is some shit she will watch that I just can't take and it is mutual. Sometimes it is easier to take when you can remember that it will be your turn, later.
And next time you've got a question up, maybe you could try this: consider bands A, B, C, etc. (boy's favorite geetar ROK). I like X, Y, Z (specific things you like of the closest genre approximation.) And let all the music heads figure out where intersection might occur.
posted by nanojath at 9:49 PM on March 18, 2007
Many moons ago I had a couple of significantly long car trips where musical intersection was unlikely, and what really worked for that was books on tape. Decent libraries have lots of books on tape and CD.
Controlling outbursts is the work of a lifetime, seriously. It mainly involves pinpointing this tiny little moment when a tiny little voice says "let it go," and then listening to that voice. All parts of this process are difficult.
Is give and take a possibility? My wife and I really have to do this on the veg-out teevee. There is some shit she will watch that I just can't take and it is mutual. Sometimes it is easier to take when you can remember that it will be your turn, later.
And next time you've got a question up, maybe you could try this: consider bands A, B, C, etc. (boy's favorite geetar ROK). I like X, Y, Z (specific things you like of the closest genre approximation.) And let all the music heads figure out where intersection might occur.
posted by nanojath at 9:49 PM on March 18, 2007
Powerful Religious Baby has it.
My favorite ex-husband liked only skateboard music when we met. He had heard of the Beatles, of course, but would have been puzzled to name three of their songs -- and anyone more obscure than the Beatles was just unknown to him, unless they played skateboard music. He couldn't get over the idea that I, his girlfriend, listened to Billie Holiday. He took that as more proof of my mindblowing wonderfulness -- that I liked, genuinely liked, music that he could not get to at all. And he is groovin' on some Geto Boyz, some Anthrax... And yes, it was more proof of his transcendent marvellousness -- he liked that!
So I went looking for more music that I didn't like but he would and I found -- Korn! He loved it! Then for one birthday he bought me the most pretentious artsy crap he could find -- the Velvet Underground box! Like every soppy couple, we had "our song" -- No Remorse by Metallica.
People still call me an insufferable music snob all the time, so he didn't cure me, but I got to be a different person with him -- and in that respect, it was a person I liked better. Everything is digable.
posted by Methylviolet at 9:51 PM on March 18, 2007
My favorite ex-husband liked only skateboard music when we met. He had heard of the Beatles, of course, but would have been puzzled to name three of their songs -- and anyone more obscure than the Beatles was just unknown to him, unless they played skateboard music. He couldn't get over the idea that I, his girlfriend, listened to Billie Holiday. He took that as more proof of my mindblowing wonderfulness -- that I liked, genuinely liked, music that he could not get to at all. And he is groovin' on some Geto Boyz, some Anthrax... And yes, it was more proof of his transcendent marvellousness -- he liked that!
So I went looking for more music that I didn't like but he would and I found -- Korn! He loved it! Then for one birthday he bought me the most pretentious artsy crap he could find -- the Velvet Underground box! Like every soppy couple, we had "our song" -- No Remorse by Metallica.
People still call me an insufferable music snob all the time, so he didn't cure me, but I got to be a different person with him -- and in that respect, it was a person I liked better. Everything is digable.
posted by Methylviolet at 9:51 PM on March 18, 2007
The music your bf likes does not stink. God knows what floats your boat, but you need to chill out on your ego. I am thinking that your taste runs more to what makes you look cool than what sounds good. I hope I am wrong, and well you haven't had the courage to put forward what you like. Frankly, you need to step down off of your high horse and embrace music rather than ego. Sorry. I am with the bf here, even if I don't really go for all those bands. Grow up.
posted by caddis at 10:06 PM on March 18, 2007
posted by caddis at 10:06 PM on March 18, 2007
Caddis, look at her list again. She'd like to listen to "jazz, or rap, or dance music, or beepy techno, or pre-1985 punk, or funk, or show tunes, or psychedelic rock, or bluegrass, or mariachi."
You think she's saying all that not because she thinks it sounds good, but because she thinks it makes her look cool? Last I knew, all the cool kids dug mariachi. And show tunes.
But maybe -- judging by your saying "well you haven't had the courage to put forward what you like" -- you missed that comment of hers.
posted by booksandlibretti at 10:36 PM on March 18, 2007
You think she's saying all that not because she thinks it sounds good, but because she thinks it makes her look cool? Last I knew, all the cool kids dug mariachi. And show tunes.
But maybe -- judging by your saying "well you haven't had the courage to put forward what you like" -- you missed that comment of hers.
posted by booksandlibretti at 10:36 PM on March 18, 2007
Compromise is the only way around it if you just can't like his stuff. Either find something you can enjoy, switch to something non-musical like podcasts in the car, have an `equal time' policy on the car stereo or just turn it off and talk (or drive in awkward silence).
I listen to things my partner can't stand, she listens to music that is outside my range of taste, but I don't mind at all. We find something we can both at least tolerate and listen to that.
Some years ago I realised that the music my friends and I were listening to was not really the music I liked most. They were musical snobs about it, would never hesitate to make nasty remarks about what I enjoyed.
I went off on a musical tangent, was vague about what I liked and mostly listened on headphones. I decided life was too short to listen to music I didn't enjoy just because it was popular, and no amount of shitty remarks will talk me out of that.
Get some equal time arrangement happening, expose him to new music, and listen to what he likes with an open mind.
posted by tomble at 10:53 PM on March 18, 2007
I listen to things my partner can't stand, she listens to music that is outside my range of taste, but I don't mind at all. We find something we can both at least tolerate and listen to that.
Some years ago I realised that the music my friends and I were listening to was not really the music I liked most. They were musical snobs about it, would never hesitate to make nasty remarks about what I enjoyed.
I went off on a musical tangent, was vague about what I liked and mostly listened on headphones. I decided life was too short to listen to music I didn't enjoy just because it was popular, and no amount of shitty remarks will talk me out of that.
Get some equal time arrangement happening, expose him to new music, and listen to what he likes with an open mind.
posted by tomble at 10:53 PM on March 18, 2007
Try some Remix/Mashup tunes like from Best of Bootie 2006 or
Best of Bootie 2005 for a start. I dislike rap, but I have many remix/mashup tunes that mix the rap that I dislike with other music that I really enjoy. Somehow it makes
everything more palatable.
For sorta emo-ish that isn't that bad and worth listening to, maybe "The Dresden Dolls". He can have emo-ish music to relate to, and you can have something still enjoyable.
posted by zengargoyle at 11:42 PM on March 18, 2007
Best of Bootie 2005 for a start. I dislike rap, but I have many remix/mashup tunes that mix the rap that I dislike with other music that I really enjoy. Somehow it makes
everything more palatable.
For sorta emo-ish that isn't that bad and worth listening to, maybe "The Dresden Dolls". He can have emo-ish music to relate to, and you can have something still enjoyable.
posted by zengargoyle at 11:42 PM on March 18, 2007
Wow, I thought parents mandating classical until an uncommonly late age was something only I had ever been through. FWIW I also went through a phase, soon after I left for college with all its high-speed internet joys, where I latched onto almost exactly the same stuff your boyfriend listens to now, and I grew out of it as I looked around online and realized there was tons of indie stuff available that didn't have to be whiny.
What I'm trying to say is, are there any places at all where your musical tastes overlap, where you can start introducing him to new (but still familiar enough to be comfortable) stuff? I'm not calling his music "just a phase", but the more new stuff he listens to the less likely you'll hear his Dave Matthews Goo Goo Corporate Emo.
posted by casarkos at 11:43 PM on March 18, 2007
What I'm trying to say is, are there any places at all where your musical tastes overlap, where you can start introducing him to new (but still familiar enough to be comfortable) stuff? I'm not calling his music "just a phase", but the more new stuff he listens to the less likely you'll hear his Dave Matthews Goo Goo Corporate Emo.
posted by casarkos at 11:43 PM on March 18, 2007
the thing I find objectionable is the voices of the vocalists
Find some insturmental music he likes, and you're golden.
If he insists on lyrics, then you both sing.
posted by yohko at 12:32 AM on March 19, 2007
Find some insturmental music he likes, and you're golden.
If he insists on lyrics, then you both sing.
posted by yohko at 12:32 AM on March 19, 2007
Response by poster: zengargoyle, I love Bootie! I hooked him up with "American Edit" too, and he actually did like that, but ultimately he saw it as sort of a novelty thing he got sick of after a while. Whereas I almost always prefer remixes to originals. What can I say, I love a committee.
I think a lot of our problem is that we're both too stubborn to really let each other's music in, and the arguing we've done has only made us more stubborn. This thread has helped me see that if we're going to make peace over this, someone is going to have to give, and since I'm much more aggressive and weird about the whole music thing I think it's pretty fair that I should try to be the one to make it right. Dave Matthews, here I come.
posted by crinklebat at 12:48 AM on March 19, 2007
I think a lot of our problem is that we're both too stubborn to really let each other's music in, and the arguing we've done has only made us more stubborn. This thread has helped me see that if we're going to make peace over this, someone is going to have to give, and since I'm much more aggressive and weird about the whole music thing I think it's pretty fair that I should try to be the one to make it right. Dave Matthews, here I come.
posted by crinklebat at 12:48 AM on March 19, 2007
The problem is this - you think your music is better than his. It's not better, it's just different. Progressive music is not better than traditional music, it's just different.
Your music reflects your personality, you are a hyped up kind of person, he is laid back. You want him to change and be exactly like you?
posted by markesh at 12:52 AM on March 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
Your music reflects your personality, you are a hyped up kind of person, he is laid back. You want him to change and be exactly like you?
posted by markesh at 12:52 AM on March 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
A lot of people have talked about you trying to meet your boyfriend halfway or suggested that maybe you just don't understand the music, etc. and I wasn't going to contradict them until I read that your boyfriend likes the fucking Counting Crows.
I'm sorry.
I dated a girl once who had utter shite taste in music and it was a huge problem for us. She thought most of the music I listened to was noise or would make jokes that the CD was skipping when I was playing some techno (when, ironically, we met because of electronic music) and I ended up calling Tori Amos "Torn Anus," so I know how heated music discussions in relationships can get.
The only thing I can think to do is to try to slowly massage his interests into slightly better ones. Maybe try getting him into, for example, Radiohead or something of that ilk to try to broaden his horizons. If you hate "emo" vocals, you'll hate Radiohead, but it might be a good stepping stone. Maybe introduce him to Elliott Smith, "Clarity" by Jimmy Eat World, etc.. About the only good thing I can say about the bands you listed as his favorites is that the drummer for Dave Matthews is awesome.
Also, the whole "driver picks and by the way I'm driving" is a total dick move.
And everybody who keeps trying to say your taste in music isn't better than his is wrong. I hate people who try to say somebody's taste can't be better than somebody else's. Let's stop being pussies and admit that there's good music and bad music just like there's Chateauneuf du Pape and there's box wine.
posted by atomly at 1:45 AM on March 19, 2007 [2 favorites]
I'm sorry.
I dated a girl once who had utter shite taste in music and it was a huge problem for us. She thought most of the music I listened to was noise or would make jokes that the CD was skipping when I was playing some techno (when, ironically, we met because of electronic music) and I ended up calling Tori Amos "Torn Anus," so I know how heated music discussions in relationships can get.
The only thing I can think to do is to try to slowly massage his interests into slightly better ones. Maybe try getting him into, for example, Radiohead or something of that ilk to try to broaden his horizons. If you hate "emo" vocals, you'll hate Radiohead, but it might be a good stepping stone. Maybe introduce him to Elliott Smith, "Clarity" by Jimmy Eat World, etc.. About the only good thing I can say about the bands you listed as his favorites is that the drummer for Dave Matthews is awesome.
Also, the whole "driver picks and by the way I'm driving" is a total dick move.
And everybody who keeps trying to say your taste in music isn't better than his is wrong. I hate people who try to say somebody's taste can't be better than somebody else's. Let's stop being pussies and admit that there's good music and bad music just like there's Chateauneuf du Pape and there's box wine.
posted by atomly at 1:45 AM on March 19, 2007 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I don't think you should change your standards--just the way you do or do not communicate them. What you're trying to control is an learned emotional reaction to bad music--a reaction which is such a habit, you are going to have to retrain yourself. No; you don't have to like the music. Go ahead and hate it for the crap that it is, but try to find some self-talk that helps you get over the power it has over you to make you act in ways you don't want to. Some ideas: Think about how much you love your boyfriend. Practice listening to his music when you are away from him...building up your tolerance. When you're with him, listening to his music, think about how good your music is going to sound/feel when you put it on again. Save your thoughts of disgust for his music to express in writing later.
posted by keith0718 at 1:46 AM on March 19, 2007
posted by keith0718 at 1:46 AM on March 19, 2007
atomly, there is no such thing as good music or bad music. It's a very close minded thing to say that. Music is VERY subjective, and the culture you grow up in reflects the type of music you like. Ask an African tribesman to appreciate the Beatles and you will have a problem. In the same way, try to appreciate the tribesman music and you will have the same problem.
I'm not saying that there is not some music that truly stands above other music. There are some songs that are globally recognized as good music, but they are very few.
And you will be interested to know that of the songs that are really appreciated all over the world, there is no house, techno, punk, garage, emo, bluegrass, or any of the other music that you think is so great. Rap has a much greater global influence than any of those genres.
Even beethoven and all the other European "greats" are not understood in most parts of the world. And let's not even get started with Miles Davis.
There is no such thing as good music and bad music. There are just people that believe that music from their culture is superior to music from other cultures. That's the real issue here.
posted by markesh at 2:18 AM on March 19, 2007
I'm not saying that there is not some music that truly stands above other music. There are some songs that are globally recognized as good music, but they are very few.
And you will be interested to know that of the songs that are really appreciated all over the world, there is no house, techno, punk, garage, emo, bluegrass, or any of the other music that you think is so great. Rap has a much greater global influence than any of those genres.
Even beethoven and all the other European "greats" are not understood in most parts of the world. And let's not even get started with Miles Davis.
There is no such thing as good music and bad music. There are just people that believe that music from their culture is superior to music from other cultures. That's the real issue here.
posted by markesh at 2:18 AM on March 19, 2007
markesh: How does any of what you said change the fact that Counting Crows suck?
If I gave a taco to a tribesman, he might try to use it as a hammer. This does not change the fact that tacos are awesome.
Seriously, though, why are you talking about tribesman? We're talking about somebody whose boyfriend has bad taste in music, this isn't an issue of cultural imperialism.
There is no such thing as good music and bad music. There are just people that believe that music from their culture is superior to music from other cultures. That's the real issue here.
How is that the issue here? Counting Crows were formed in San Francisco. Don't try to turn this into some sort of argument over ethnocentricity or something.
Also, don't assume that I don't like rap. I love rap. I also love a lot of country, a lot of rock, etc. I like pretty much any music that doesn't suck.
Anyway, I'm just picking on Counting Crows as an example. I think even they have a decent song ("A Long December"), but I stand by my belief that there is good and bad music.
posted by atomly at 2:35 AM on March 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
If I gave a taco to a tribesman, he might try to use it as a hammer. This does not change the fact that tacos are awesome.
Seriously, though, why are you talking about tribesman? We're talking about somebody whose boyfriend has bad taste in music, this isn't an issue of cultural imperialism.
There is no such thing as good music and bad music. There are just people that believe that music from their culture is superior to music from other cultures. That's the real issue here.
How is that the issue here? Counting Crows were formed in San Francisco. Don't try to turn this into some sort of argument over ethnocentricity or something.
Also, don't assume that I don't like rap. I love rap. I also love a lot of country, a lot of rock, etc. I like pretty much any music that doesn't suck.
Anyway, I'm just picking on Counting Crows as an example. I think even they have a decent song ("A Long December"), but I stand by my belief that there is good and bad music.
posted by atomly at 2:35 AM on March 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
You don't have to love all music. Some musicians are better than others. Some musical styles are better than others. Every style that is broad enough and old enough has some geniuses, but, for example, the average jazz recording (or performer) is better than the average country or metal recording (or performer).
But you can learn to be amused, rather than annoyed, by bad music. Metal can be comedy, and serious fans of metal -- the ones who don't realize it's a joke -- can be very amusing. Try to be amused by the badness of your boyfriend's music.
And, as suggested earlier, maybe you can train your boyfriend to like better music. Wean him. Listen to what he sings in the shower -- those are the songs most important to him -- and try to find music that is somewhat close to them (in terms of instrumentation, rhythms, lyrics, mood) but better. That "guitars-and-male-singer stuff from about 1990 on" must be expressing something he relates to. Look for music that expresses the same sort of sentiments better. (Maybe with women singing?) Hope he likes the better stuff and abandons the tripe.
posted by pracowity at 2:38 AM on March 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
But you can learn to be amused, rather than annoyed, by bad music. Metal can be comedy, and serious fans of metal -- the ones who don't realize it's a joke -- can be very amusing. Try to be amused by the badness of your boyfriend's music.
And, as suggested earlier, maybe you can train your boyfriend to like better music. Wean him. Listen to what he sings in the shower -- those are the songs most important to him -- and try to find music that is somewhat close to them (in terms of instrumentation, rhythms, lyrics, mood) but better. That "guitars-and-male-singer stuff from about 1990 on" must be expressing something he relates to. Look for music that expresses the same sort of sentiments better. (Maybe with women singing?) Hope he likes the better stuff and abandons the tripe.
posted by pracowity at 2:38 AM on March 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: In any case, before this turns into a holy war over the definition of good music, I will readily concede that I listen to some really terrible music. I listen to some great music too, but I honestly try to change the subject when people ask me what kind of music I listen to (I mean, I already put show tunes out there - let's also say hypothetically that I like to listen to the Disneyland Audio Tour for the Blind when I'm driving). The issue really isn't that I think my music is better than my boyfriend's.
The issue is that I think the music he likes is by turns irritating and boring. My music may be irritating on occasion, but it's irritating in a way that pleases me, and I can't tolerate boredom. I'm trying to find a way to either learn to tolerate his music, or learn to shut up about how intolerable I find it. I really don't care about relative quality. I think my music falls on a pretty wide Gaussian distribution in terms of quality compared to his...and there's a long tail on both ends, no question about it.
posted by crinklebat at 2:44 AM on March 19, 2007
The issue is that I think the music he likes is by turns irritating and boring. My music may be irritating on occasion, but it's irritating in a way that pleases me, and I can't tolerate boredom. I'm trying to find a way to either learn to tolerate his music, or learn to shut up about how intolerable I find it. I really don't care about relative quality. I think my music falls on a pretty wide Gaussian distribution in terms of quality compared to his...and there's a long tail on both ends, no question about it.
posted by crinklebat at 2:44 AM on March 19, 2007
They say hell is other people's music. Or hell is other people's arts interests, basically. There are two reasons to my mind why you wouldn't like someone's music: one is that you're ignorant: you aren't tolerant of music that is different and you can't stand that 'crap'. Unlikely. The other is that you feel that your tastes are too sophisticated for that 'crap'. The music is too generic, too whatever. In which case, this is stupid. Someone with even more sophisticated music taste than you probably thinks your music is crap also. The zen of this situation is just to quit that game entirely. Realize that it's all relative, and that someone is listening to something that they enjoy and it's really like anything else. Do you walk down the street clawing out your eyes because you think certain houses are ugly? Then why would you plug your ears at music you think is bad. Just forget about it. Its just muzak.
posted by who else at 2:44 AM on March 19, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by who else at 2:44 AM on March 19, 2007 [2 favorites]
Btw. after reading more of your question I was a music snob who has since mellowed. Truth be told, I went from being a staple on the music scene in my area to being completely uninterested in music and it has been very liberating. I feel like I let a huge part of my ego go and matured a good deal.
posted by who else at 2:49 AM on March 19, 2007
posted by who else at 2:49 AM on March 19, 2007
Okay okay okay I agree with the above bit about the zen of the situation and how music taste is all relative and similar sentiments. This is all very true. I am not really a music snob anymore and was a fairly lousy one when I was....
However, my god, crinklebat, that's horrible. Does he like Seven Mary Three? Candlebox? Oogh. It's like the nightmares of Alternative Nation have come back from the grave. Undying love for 80's hair metal would be so much better. But, I am with those like pracowity who say there is good music that is not a big leap from that and maybe you two can find common ground. Goo Goo Dolls -> late Replacements is one that's pretty obvious. How 'bout early Weezer? Eels, maybe? I dunno, it's real late and my accuracy is gone, but there is decent stuff out there that fits into that late 90's crap-alterna-radio mold.
posted by furiousthought at 3:15 AM on March 19, 2007
However, my god, crinklebat, that's horrible. Does he like Seven Mary Three? Candlebox? Oogh. It's like the nightmares of Alternative Nation have come back from the grave. Undying love for 80's hair metal would be so much better. But, I am with those like pracowity who say there is good music that is not a big leap from that and maybe you two can find common ground. Goo Goo Dolls -> late Replacements is one that's pretty obvious. How 'bout early Weezer? Eels, maybe? I dunno, it's real late and my accuracy is gone, but there is decent stuff out there that fits into that late 90's crap-alterna-radio mold.
posted by furiousthought at 3:15 AM on March 19, 2007
my husband and I have strikingly different tastes in music but we've both opened up to each other about what we like in it. What we do now, is either listen to the music that we both like (a very small subset) or listen separately. And the reason is not because I think his music is crap. The music he likes is wonderfully narrative, with brilliant singing. The problem is, I find it too intense, not emotionally but senses-wise. I actually become uncomfortable physically if I have to listen to much of it. I think it's possible he thinks my taste is crap, but he's never said so. He just doesn't find it appealing, and that's okay with me. We don't have to be OMG twins.
So, don't listen to the same stuff. Try silence. It's nice.
posted by b33j at 3:27 AM on March 19, 2007
So, don't listen to the same stuff. Try silence. It's nice.
posted by b33j at 3:27 AM on March 19, 2007
Crinklebat, my sympathies. While I can appreciate the sentiment that taste is taste, etc., someone forcing me to listen to Counting Crows would probably end in a stabbing. That being said, here's a few suggestions:
There's modern stuff that he might enjoy that doesn't totally suck. Like:
Radiohead ca. O. K. Computer (though this may be too whiny for you, I don't know)
A bunch of britpop: Ash, Blur, Pulp, Suede...(he may have heard this on alt. radio already)
Earlier R.E.M
I think someone already said the Replacements
Green Day (I really like the latest album, and even if you hate it you have to admit it's catchy)
Ben Folds Five: this is often the "bridge" artist for people who start out liking e.g. Dave Matthews
Jeff Buckley (definitely has sincerity and feeling, which is what may be appealing to your b.f. about 'whiny emo voice')
If that fails, go classic: Beatles, Stones (duh), Kinks, maybe the Zombies, maybe the Modern Lovers? (I'd stay away from VU for the time being.)
posted by myeviltwin at 6:10 AM on March 19, 2007
There's modern stuff that he might enjoy that doesn't totally suck. Like:
Radiohead ca. O. K. Computer (though this may be too whiny for you, I don't know)
A bunch of britpop: Ash, Blur, Pulp, Suede...(he may have heard this on alt. radio already)
Earlier R.E.M
I think someone already said the Replacements
Green Day (I really like the latest album, and even if you hate it you have to admit it's catchy)
Ben Folds Five: this is often the "bridge" artist for people who start out liking e.g. Dave Matthews
Jeff Buckley (definitely has sincerity and feeling, which is what may be appealing to your b.f. about 'whiny emo voice')
If that fails, go classic: Beatles, Stones (duh), Kinks, maybe the Zombies, maybe the Modern Lovers? (I'd stay away from VU for the time being.)
posted by myeviltwin at 6:10 AM on March 19, 2007
Our rule is passenger chooses the music, but within reason. We have a fairly large overlap of music we both like, which is evidently not the case with you two, but we both have stuff the other hates that we've agreed not to play. So he doesn't play Dashboard Confessional or most emo around me (I am SO with you here on the emo-whiny-grating-voice-turn-it-FUCKING-OFF-shite) and I don't play the Stone Roses or most indie around him. We actually take the piss out of each other mercilessly for the bits of our tastes that don't overlap - I call him a whiny emo boy and he calls me stuck in the 90s. So toleration and avoiding the worst.
But toleration works best in small doses. You can't be expected to listen to his music all the time, so take turns picking the music in the car, or have none.
I second trying your boy on Weezer and maybe also Rival Schools, Hell Is For Heroes, Jimmy Eat World, Hundred Reasons, that kind of non-whiny-emo/post-hardcore style. If you like bleepy and he likes emo then I strongly recommend Get Cape. Wear Cape. Fly. as a middle ground (intelligent emo with beats - it's really good, and I hate emo.)
posted by corvine at 6:14 AM on March 19, 2007
But toleration works best in small doses. You can't be expected to listen to his music all the time, so take turns picking the music in the car, or have none.
I second trying your boy on Weezer and maybe also Rival Schools, Hell Is For Heroes, Jimmy Eat World, Hundred Reasons, that kind of non-whiny-emo/post-hardcore style. If you like bleepy and he likes emo then I strongly recommend Get Cape. Wear Cape. Fly. as a middle ground (intelligent emo with beats - it's really good, and I hate emo.)
posted by corvine at 6:14 AM on March 19, 2007
Can you try enjoying the fact that he is happy? My boy hates some of my music (and yeah, I like whiny emo), but he shuts up about it because I am happy and he wants me to be that way. And then, I will make concessions to music he finds more enjoyable and he will choose the artists I like best, in a beautiful dance of compromise.
posted by dame at 6:28 AM on March 19, 2007
posted by dame at 6:28 AM on March 19, 2007
Once you realize that most people don't self-identify with bands as much as you do and couldnt care less about hunting the newest coolest sounds, then the tolerance comes quite easily. Most people just want to hear some positive and entertaining sounds and leave it at that.
Everyone has their thing and its especially bad in their teens and twenties. I'm sure a 'car guy' would have some mean things to say about your beloved automobile. Or a 'foodie' about the things you cook and eat. Or a 'bookworm' about what you read. Or an 'activist' about your lifestyle. etc. You're just like them, but about music.
posted by damn dirty ape at 7:10 AM on March 19, 2007
Everyone has their thing and its especially bad in their teens and twenties. I'm sure a 'car guy' would have some mean things to say about your beloved automobile. Or a 'foodie' about the things you cook and eat. Or a 'bookworm' about what you read. Or an 'activist' about your lifestyle. etc. You're just like them, but about music.
posted by damn dirty ape at 7:10 AM on March 19, 2007
Best answer: One thing that's worth mentioning here that various people have been dancing around, but no one has come right out and said, is that there's actually two separate (though not entirely unrelated) issues here:
1. You dislike music that your boyfriend likes.
2. You think less of your boyfriend as a person, because you consider your musical taste superior to his.
When considering the advice given in this thread, take a moment to consider whether it addresses issue #1, issue #2, or both. (Maybe there is no single solution that addresses both; maybe you'll need to use a combination of approaches.) But many of the suggestions given in this thread address only one issue or the other. Powerful Religious Baby's suggestion ("learn to like it ironically"), for example, may help with issue #1, but it seems to me it would only make issue #2 even worse.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:17 AM on March 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
1. You dislike music that your boyfriend likes.
2. You think less of your boyfriend as a person, because you consider your musical taste superior to his.
When considering the advice given in this thread, take a moment to consider whether it addresses issue #1, issue #2, or both. (Maybe there is no single solution that addresses both; maybe you'll need to use a combination of approaches.) But many of the suggestions given in this thread address only one issue or the other. Powerful Religious Baby's suggestion ("learn to like it ironically"), for example, may help with issue #1, but it seems to me it would only make issue #2 even worse.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:17 AM on March 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
While this may not be the best suggestion, you say that there is some of his stuff you can enjoy. What me and my SO do when we end up in a situation where he wants his music, but I can't stand what he has, is that I'll pick from whatever he has available. This works well enough for me, in that I can at least pick the most desirable item from the pack. However, since I carry around a 20 gig iPod, and listen to everything except most rap, the converse doesn't always work in my favor. He will pick, say, Bjork, when I really want to listen to Miles Davis.
When I know this is likely to happen, I make sure I pare down some of the stuff I know I probably won't want to listen to on the iPod. Since you both have iPods, maybe you could try picking from playlists as well for a more specific selection. For instance, "Anything from the Techno Playlist," can turn out agreeable, or "Something from the Mopey Rock 'list would be great!"
posted by troubadour at 10:22 AM on March 19, 2007
When I know this is likely to happen, I make sure I pare down some of the stuff I know I probably won't want to listen to on the iPod. Since you both have iPods, maybe you could try picking from playlists as well for a more specific selection. For instance, "Anything from the Techno Playlist," can turn out agreeable, or "Something from the Mopey Rock 'list would be great!"
posted by troubadour at 10:22 AM on March 19, 2007
Oh, additionally, you could actually venture INTO his musical territory willingly, and try to find new/good bands you would enjoy. This is what my best friend and I did in college for the long roadtrips. I hated country, she loved it, so I tried to find a few country albums I could at least appreciate/enjoy. I don't think I ever listened to them on other ocassions, but the gave our trips a distinct flavor that I still really love.
posted by troubadour at 10:26 AM on March 19, 2007
posted by troubadour at 10:26 AM on March 19, 2007
I've battled this same problem since I was 12 and made Johnny Rotten my personal role model. I'm not completely over it yet but I'm a lot better.
The one thing that helped "cure" me was meeting people who DID have good taste in music in my estimation but turned out to be insufferable anyway (online dating is a great way to meet those people, by the way!) and realize that the people I love the most don't always have the greatest taste and that's okay.
Don't worry, you WILL mellow with age and you're already a lot more mature about it than I was at 21.
posted by Jess the Mess at 1:23 PM on March 19, 2007
The one thing that helped "cure" me was meeting people who DID have good taste in music in my estimation but turned out to be insufferable anyway (online dating is a great way to meet those people, by the way!) and realize that the people I love the most don't always have the greatest taste and that's okay.
Don't worry, you WILL mellow with age and you're already a lot more mature about it than I was at 21.
posted by Jess the Mess at 1:23 PM on March 19, 2007
When I encounter people who like art that I don't like, I keep a few things in mind, much as I would like to believe otherwise:
1) There's simply no such thing as objective quality in art. There's art people like and there's art people don't like. There's art that gets discussed and art that doesn't get discussed. In large part, art is a vehicle for discussion. And, in general, the least interesting question you can ask of art is "Is this the best art?"
2) Almost everyone has one broad genre of art that they use for escapist entertainment rather than serious study/aesthetic appreciation. I've known people with very sophisticated taste in books who would watch any sort of movie, reserving cinema in general as realm for escapist entertainment.
3) With a suitable grounding in culture studies and an appreciation for irony, any art is potentially entertaining and/or thought provoking, even mass-produced product with no redeeming aesthetic value.
4) The same hipper-than-thou attitude you are attempting to take toward your boyfriend was used by the cultural elite of previous generations to look down their collective noses at anyone who didn't dig Shakespeare and other canonical authors. Likewise it was used by the same sorts of people to look down at jazz and, later, at rock-n-roll. Break the cycle.
posted by wheat at 1:33 PM on March 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
1) There's simply no such thing as objective quality in art. There's art people like and there's art people don't like. There's art that gets discussed and art that doesn't get discussed. In large part, art is a vehicle for discussion. And, in general, the least interesting question you can ask of art is "Is this the best art?"
2) Almost everyone has one broad genre of art that they use for escapist entertainment rather than serious study/aesthetic appreciation. I've known people with very sophisticated taste in books who would watch any sort of movie, reserving cinema in general as realm for escapist entertainment.
3) With a suitable grounding in culture studies and an appreciation for irony, any art is potentially entertaining and/or thought provoking, even mass-produced product with no redeeming aesthetic value.
4) The same hipper-than-thou attitude you are attempting to take toward your boyfriend was used by the cultural elite of previous generations to look down their collective noses at anyone who didn't dig Shakespeare and other canonical authors. Likewise it was used by the same sorts of people to look down at jazz and, later, at rock-n-roll. Break the cycle.
posted by wheat at 1:33 PM on March 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
I live for heavy metal (and special thanks to everyone using metal as an example of "bad music" or "a joke", especially if you couldn't name more than twenty metal bands if Howie Mandel were there with a million dollar box riding on the answer. That's always appreciated). My boyfriend likes reggae, and has hated metal since the 80s.
We solve this by alternating who gets to play music. The "driver gets to choose and BTW I always drive" game is really childish -- I understand wanting to play your own music while driving, but it's really not that big a deal to alternate. Institute a "you choose this album and I'll choose the next" policy. The random button on the iPod (one that has a roughly equal number of things you like and things your boy likes) also works. In my experience, the mix-CD idea doesn't work unless the person is at least a little bit open to the idea of hearing new music; the random setting is a great way to get people to that point, without giving anybody reason to blame. If you hear "hey, this is pretty good" or "I liked that one song when it came on the random", that's a good starting point for a mix CD.
Using this method, there are now more than a few reggae songs and albums I really enjoy; same for my boyfriend and metal. We can both say "let me pick for a while" in the car, etc without upsetting anyone. This can't happen unless you're willing to at least take the music at face value, though. The "ironic enjoyment"/"find it amusing" idea is horrible. Whatever you feel, feel it honestly, not as part of some post-post-modern farce... people who are always looking for "comedy" rarely discover greater meaning in anything. And if your boyfriend (or you) absolutely will not tolerate either alternate albums or random iPod in the car, dump him. Seriously. Someone who can't meet his or her SO halfway on this issue needs to be with somebody they can agree with 100%, otherwise they'll be miserable.
posted by vorfeed at 1:36 PM on March 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
We solve this by alternating who gets to play music. The "driver gets to choose and BTW I always drive" game is really childish -- I understand wanting to play your own music while driving, but it's really not that big a deal to alternate. Institute a "you choose this album and I'll choose the next" policy. The random button on the iPod (one that has a roughly equal number of things you like and things your boy likes) also works. In my experience, the mix-CD idea doesn't work unless the person is at least a little bit open to the idea of hearing new music; the random setting is a great way to get people to that point, without giving anybody reason to blame. If you hear "hey, this is pretty good" or "I liked that one song when it came on the random", that's a good starting point for a mix CD.
Using this method, there are now more than a few reggae songs and albums I really enjoy; same for my boyfriend and metal. We can both say "let me pick for a while" in the car, etc without upsetting anyone. This can't happen unless you're willing to at least take the music at face value, though. The "ironic enjoyment"/"find it amusing" idea is horrible. Whatever you feel, feel it honestly, not as part of some post-post-modern farce... people who are always looking for "comedy" rarely discover greater meaning in anything. And if your boyfriend (or you) absolutely will not tolerate either alternate albums or random iPod in the car, dump him. Seriously. Someone who can't meet his or her SO halfway on this issue needs to be with somebody they can agree with 100%, otherwise they'll be miserable.
posted by vorfeed at 1:36 PM on March 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
A point of clarification: I am not advocating that crinklebat laugh at her boyfriend or his taste in music, which is why I included the remark about ironic enjoyment often being odious. I am advocating that she learn to take a genuine, though slant, pleasure in his music for what it is, and for what he and other people see in it.
posted by Powerful Religious Baby at 2:07 PM on March 19, 2007
posted by Powerful Religious Baby at 2:07 PM on March 19, 2007
It's not a bullshit powerplay, it's an attempt to not kill the people in the car.
The bullshit powerplay here isn't "I need to listen to my music when driving". That's fine. The bullshit only occurs in combination the corollary: "...and I almost always get to drive". You can alternate driving just as easily as you can alternate music; if this guy is not willing to do either, and he doesn't have a very, very good excuse, it smells like there's a bullshit powerplay somewhere.
posted by vorfeed at 4:03 PM on March 19, 2007
The bullshit powerplay here isn't "I need to listen to my music when driving". That's fine. The bullshit only occurs in combination the corollary: "...and I almost always get to drive". You can alternate driving just as easily as you can alternate music; if this guy is not willing to do either, and he doesn't have a very, very good excuse, it smells like there's a bullshit powerplay somewhere.
posted by vorfeed at 4:03 PM on March 19, 2007
If I may add a third problem to the pair suggested by devilsadvocate, it would be the car issue specifically. The best solution I've found (through years of trial and error with a manfriend whose music bordered on insufferable, natch) is that the passenger must retain veto rights in a situation of driver = DJ. Even better is the rule of shuffle combined with veto rights.
Of course, I must mention that if your next beau has even the smallest taste intersect with you, it's going to feel like the first time you've ever brushed your teeth. It's not really that his music is bad so much as that it has a different kind of importance to him, or that it lacks that importance all together. That said, I believe very strongly that there are PLENTY of good people who listen to crap music.
posted by modernpoverty at 9:25 PM on March 19, 2007
Of course, I must mention that if your next beau has even the smallest taste intersect with you, it's going to feel like the first time you've ever brushed your teeth. It's not really that his music is bad so much as that it has a different kind of importance to him, or that it lacks that importance all together. That said, I believe very strongly that there are PLENTY of good people who listen to crap music.
posted by modernpoverty at 9:25 PM on March 19, 2007
So many things to touch on here:
First off, I was the music snob in high school. My parents were music snobs; it rubbed off on me. I could go backwards or forwards on bands from Archers of Loaf to Zumpano. I made mixtapes nearly every week (Christ, why did I have no friends in highschool again). I ended up writing for 'zines, then getting freelance work as a record reviewer, then got a column writing about music.
Or, longer story shorter, my nickname was The Music Fascist, because I had rules and had no problem letting people know what they were ("I can't believe you listen to that shit.")
This was mostly during the first wave of those bands your boyfriend likes. I was in 8th Grade when my first album was Badmotorfinger, so I know the grunge. And now, looking back, I can acknowledge that I listened to a huge steaming pile meself, what with Stabbing Westward and a fair number of grunge also-rans like Big Chief.
But being the music snob became part of my identity, I got to like having that authority. And I mighta stayed like that if not for a couple things.
First off, I wanted to hear new things, and I was willing to take the advice of people I liked to find 'em. The most recent example is about five years old, but that was when I started dating my current girlfriend. It was in the midst of the early 00s electro explosion, a sentence previousl y imagined as sci-fi. I hated the shit. I hated the cheesy '80s biting synths, I hated the detachment of Adult., I hated the stupid sing alongs of Le Tigre, I hated Ellen Alien and thought Peaches was a one-joke titilation for indie dance kids with asymetrical haircuts (kinda still do).
But, in those early fumbling moments of the relationship, I swapped mixes with my new girlfriend, and hers was full of electro, and I mocked her for it. I was a dick about it, and she probably shoulda dumped me. We're all glad she didn't. But you know what? Some of it was really good. It was really fun, and I had kinda unfairly dismissed "fun" music. Once I learned what I did like from what I didn't, it was easy to communicate that to her. And, frankly, one of the good things about getting to write about music is that you have to get good at saying what you do like or what you don't like about all sorts of stuff. It's kinda one of those therapy talk things "I like it when the band does this, I don't like it when they do that..."
Another thing that helped was having to work for a couple years in food service, with a shared stereo. At the Mexican restaurant I worked at, that meant that only classic rock, or rock that appealed to classic rock listeners, was acceptable, because it was either my tapes or WCSX. That's why when jonmc starts gushing over Rainbow in the Dark, I can join in. I have a fantastic knowledge of the extremely limited classic rock playlist (which means that if I hear the end part of Rainbow in the Dark, my mind automatically starts filling in the beginning of Tom Sawyer).
But the skill that made me develop was being able to predict what people would like to hear based on what else I know.
So, at the risk of rambling on too long (did I mention that pot helps when listening to music), keys to not being a music snob anymore are: to realize that there're always people who know a lot more about music than you do; that there's usually something good in every genre, and usually one decent song per album at least; most other people who posit themselves as music snobs have really boring taste, but everyone has an album that blew them away and let them find more stuff (that makes it easier to forgive people for recommending stuff like OKgo or Clap Your Hands Say Yeah or other bands that have been critically adored but are totally only worthless as longterm listens); realize that you'll always sound like a music snob dick some times, and can come across as incredibly patronizing when you're being sincere (see prior aside), and kinda accept that but try to minimize it— I'm sure that as a girl, you've been given the recordstore talk-down before.
That's how you stop being too much of a snobbish jerk about music.
As for the relationship—
The rule is actually that driver gets veto power. But that puts him in a position of vetoeing everything, which makes him a dick.
The second thing I'd mention is that if music is important to you, it doesn't sound like your boyfriend has an open mind. You are totally sanctioned to dump him over this.
If, aside from this, he's worth the trouble— Do a coupla things. First, try to listen to some of his music and pick the best, and what you like about it. Because sometimes "snobs" do have an overly narrow view of what other people listen to, and some of it's gotta be good. From there, work with him to explore new things. Puddle Of Mudd said in an interview that they want to be compared with Led Zepplin. Go for it. Nirvana is the spiritual forefather to most of those bands, and doesn't get listened to enough anymore. It's also a really fertile jumping off point for other bands (Sonic Youth?) without gettng the immediate "art fag" dismissal.
Another thing to remember is that part of why those bands suck is because they're overplayed. I've found that by never listening to the radio except in brief car trips, that I enjoy being reconnected to what the mainstream listens to. My girlfriend points out that I'll forget that not everyone spends their freetime chasing down Poland's version of the VU.
posted by klangklangston at 9:44 PM on March 19, 2007 [4 favorites]
First off, I was the music snob in high school. My parents were music snobs; it rubbed off on me. I could go backwards or forwards on bands from Archers of Loaf to Zumpano. I made mixtapes nearly every week (Christ, why did I have no friends in highschool again). I ended up writing for 'zines, then getting freelance work as a record reviewer, then got a column writing about music.
Or, longer story shorter, my nickname was The Music Fascist, because I had rules and had no problem letting people know what they were ("I can't believe you listen to that shit.")
This was mostly during the first wave of those bands your boyfriend likes. I was in 8th Grade when my first album was Badmotorfinger, so I know the grunge. And now, looking back, I can acknowledge that I listened to a huge steaming pile meself, what with Stabbing Westward and a fair number of grunge also-rans like Big Chief.
But being the music snob became part of my identity, I got to like having that authority. And I mighta stayed like that if not for a couple things.
First off, I wanted to hear new things, and I was willing to take the advice of people I liked to find 'em. The most recent example is about five years old, but that was when I started dating my current girlfriend. It was in the midst of the early 00s electro explosion, a sentence previousl y imagined as sci-fi. I hated the shit. I hated the cheesy '80s biting synths, I hated the detachment of Adult., I hated the stupid sing alongs of Le Tigre, I hated Ellen Alien and thought Peaches was a one-joke titilation for indie dance kids with asymetrical haircuts (kinda still do).
But, in those early fumbling moments of the relationship, I swapped mixes with my new girlfriend, and hers was full of electro, and I mocked her for it. I was a dick about it, and she probably shoulda dumped me. We're all glad she didn't. But you know what? Some of it was really good. It was really fun, and I had kinda unfairly dismissed "fun" music. Once I learned what I did like from what I didn't, it was easy to communicate that to her. And, frankly, one of the good things about getting to write about music is that you have to get good at saying what you do like or what you don't like about all sorts of stuff. It's kinda one of those therapy talk things "I like it when the band does this, I don't like it when they do that..."
Another thing that helped was having to work for a couple years in food service, with a shared stereo. At the Mexican restaurant I worked at, that meant that only classic rock, or rock that appealed to classic rock listeners, was acceptable, because it was either my tapes or WCSX. That's why when jonmc starts gushing over Rainbow in the Dark, I can join in. I have a fantastic knowledge of the extremely limited classic rock playlist (which means that if I hear the end part of Rainbow in the Dark, my mind automatically starts filling in the beginning of Tom Sawyer).
But the skill that made me develop was being able to predict what people would like to hear based on what else I know.
So, at the risk of rambling on too long (did I mention that pot helps when listening to music), keys to not being a music snob anymore are: to realize that there're always people who know a lot more about music than you do; that there's usually something good in every genre, and usually one decent song per album at least; most other people who posit themselves as music snobs have really boring taste, but everyone has an album that blew them away and let them find more stuff (that makes it easier to forgive people for recommending stuff like OKgo or Clap Your Hands Say Yeah or other bands that have been critically adored but are totally only worthless as longterm listens); realize that you'll always sound like a music snob dick some times, and can come across as incredibly patronizing when you're being sincere (see prior aside), and kinda accept that but try to minimize it— I'm sure that as a girl, you've been given the recordstore talk-down before.
That's how you stop being too much of a snobbish jerk about music.
As for the relationship—
The rule is actually that driver gets veto power. But that puts him in a position of vetoeing everything, which makes him a dick.
The second thing I'd mention is that if music is important to you, it doesn't sound like your boyfriend has an open mind. You are totally sanctioned to dump him over this.
If, aside from this, he's worth the trouble— Do a coupla things. First, try to listen to some of his music and pick the best, and what you like about it. Because sometimes "snobs" do have an overly narrow view of what other people listen to, and some of it's gotta be good. From there, work with him to explore new things. Puddle Of Mudd said in an interview that they want to be compared with Led Zepplin. Go for it. Nirvana is the spiritual forefather to most of those bands, and doesn't get listened to enough anymore. It's also a really fertile jumping off point for other bands (Sonic Youth?) without gettng the immediate "art fag" dismissal.
Another thing to remember is that part of why those bands suck is because they're overplayed. I've found that by never listening to the radio except in brief car trips, that I enjoy being reconnected to what the mainstream listens to. My girlfriend points out that I'll forget that not everyone spends their freetime chasing down Poland's version of the VU.
posted by klangklangston at 9:44 PM on March 19, 2007 [4 favorites]
So, to continue—
Only listen to the radio when you're in the car with him, and encourage him to try different radio stations. Talking about what you like and don't like in another genre can be really helpful, and you might bond over both being able to snark about songs like "Smack That."
The second part of that is that you're going to have to find people to talk music with. I got lucky and found a great girl (who used to be a programming director at our local excellent freeform station— ooh, if you've got a freeform station, just make him listen to that. It'll force his horizons open more), but you'll probably have to resort to the internet. But do it, because otherwise you'll resent him.
Anything else? Jesus, I dropped a textload. If you want more help getting your boyfriend into new music, feel free to email me. (I've been toying with the idea of being a music appreciation tutor).
posted by klangklangston at 9:51 PM on March 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
Only listen to the radio when you're in the car with him, and encourage him to try different radio stations. Talking about what you like and don't like in another genre can be really helpful, and you might bond over both being able to snark about songs like "Smack That."
The second part of that is that you're going to have to find people to talk music with. I got lucky and found a great girl (who used to be a programming director at our local excellent freeform station— ooh, if you've got a freeform station, just make him listen to that. It'll force his horizons open more), but you'll probably have to resort to the internet. But do it, because otherwise you'll resent him.
Anything else? Jesus, I dropped a textload. If you want more help getting your boyfriend into new music, feel free to email me. (I've been toying with the idea of being a music appreciation tutor).
posted by klangklangston at 9:51 PM on March 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
By the way, the Polish VU was Plastic People of the Universe, and they're pretty decent.
posted by klangklangston at 9:58 PM on March 19, 2007
posted by klangklangston at 9:58 PM on March 19, 2007
The bullshit powerplay here isn't "I need to listen to my music when driving". That's fine. The bullshit only occurs in combination the corollary: "...and I almost always get to drive".
I may have read it wrong, but didn't the original poster indicate that the boyfriend does most of the driving because she has car/driving issues?
Personally, I'm sympathetic to the "driver chooses the music" viewpoint, because long-distance driving is tedious enough in itself without also being forced to listen to music you dislike or find soporific. But why couldn't the passenger just listen to his/her own music on headphones? If it's a long trip, you could alternate listening to things you both like (NPR, as you mentioned) and listening privately to your own music. That way, you get a good dose of road-trip camraderie, but you also get some private time in your head with just the music and the scenery.
posted by brookedel at 2:02 AM on March 20, 2007
I may have read it wrong, but didn't the original poster indicate that the boyfriend does most of the driving because she has car/driving issues?
Personally, I'm sympathetic to the "driver chooses the music" viewpoint, because long-distance driving is tedious enough in itself without also being forced to listen to music you dislike or find soporific. But why couldn't the passenger just listen to his/her own music on headphones? If it's a long trip, you could alternate listening to things you both like (NPR, as you mentioned) and listening privately to your own music. That way, you get a good dose of road-trip camraderie, but you also get some private time in your head with just the music and the scenery.
posted by brookedel at 2:02 AM on March 20, 2007
Seconding the iPod on shuffle plus (limited) veto rights to the driver. That seems a workable system for any reasonable couple. If it's late at night, I give the nod to the driver for whatever music keeps him/her awake and alert, as I value my life more than being cocooned in music that I happen to dig.
Seriously, though: there are few things lamer than music snobbery. It's an entire subculture where people trump up their overly-inflated egos by knowing what other, equally self-important snobs think is cool and dissing everything that isn't. It's not about quality. It's not about sound aesthetic judgment. Music is a subjective preference. Arguing that someone's music sucks is like arguing that someone's favorite color isn't what he or she says it is.
I used to worry that what I liked might not be cool. Now I don't. You know what? I'm able to enjoy a lot more things (but I always liked metal, so none of this would be an issue for me). I remember hurting a close friend back in high school because I had fallen in with the music snobs to the point that I told him he had "no taste in music." I'm lucky that we're still friends. These days, we have a lot of bands (hell: entire genres) in common. But we diverge a lot, too. And that's okay. We would gain nothing by being carbon copies of one another. Difference is good.
posted by wheat at 9:53 PM on March 23, 2007 [1 favorite]
Seriously, though: there are few things lamer than music snobbery. It's an entire subculture where people trump up their overly-inflated egos by knowing what other, equally self-important snobs think is cool and dissing everything that isn't. It's not about quality. It's not about sound aesthetic judgment. Music is a subjective preference. Arguing that someone's music sucks is like arguing that someone's favorite color isn't what he or she says it is.
I used to worry that what I liked might not be cool. Now I don't. You know what? I'm able to enjoy a lot more things (but I always liked metal, so none of this would be an issue for me). I remember hurting a close friend back in high school because I had fallen in with the music snobs to the point that I told him he had "no taste in music." I'm lucky that we're still friends. These days, we have a lot of bands (hell: entire genres) in common. But we diverge a lot, too. And that's okay. We would gain nothing by being carbon copies of one another. Difference is good.
posted by wheat at 9:53 PM on March 23, 2007 [1 favorite]
Seriously, though: there are few things lamer than music snobbery. It's an entire subculture where people trump up their overly-inflated egos by knowing what other, equally self-important snobs think is cool and dissing everything that isn't. It's not about quality. It's not about sound aesthetic judgment. Music is a subjective preference. Arguing that someone's music sucks is like arguing that someone's favorite color isn't what he or she says it is.
That analogy doesn't work. Thinking that the music someone likes is crappy is not the same as telling them that they don't actually like it.
"Music snobbery" as in being closed-minded and behaving rudely to people who don't share one's taste is bad, as is liking something in order to seem cool. But there's nothing wrong with "music snobbery" as in being passionate about music and therefore thinking some of it is brilliant and some of it is shit, and there's no reason for the asker to feel bad about that.
posted by ludwig_van at 12:36 PM on March 24, 2007
That analogy doesn't work. Thinking that the music someone likes is crappy is not the same as telling them that they don't actually like it.
"Music snobbery" as in being closed-minded and behaving rudely to people who don't share one's taste is bad, as is liking something in order to seem cool. But there's nothing wrong with "music snobbery" as in being passionate about music and therefore thinking some of it is brilliant and some of it is shit, and there's no reason for the asker to feel bad about that.
posted by ludwig_van at 12:36 PM on March 24, 2007
From the original post: "I really want to be more tolerant, but he turns on the radio and it's like I just go nuts with how annoyed I get and lash out." And, later: "I just want to overcome my weird hostility/anger toward people who like music I dislike."
ludwig_van: She does behave rudely to him (and probably toward others as well). She lashes out at him for not sharing her tastes. And she thinks less of others who have tastes similar to his and/or not like her own.
There is no necessary connection between "being passionate" about music and feeling compelled to "lash out" at someone else's music (or at someone else for liking that music). Sharing your love for music and pointing out what makes it cool for you is one thing. Looking down your nose at people for not sharing your tastes is quite another. The poster wanted help with that. I'm not asking her to feel bad about it. I'm offering advice on how to reframe the situation as a way to improve it.
But I actually feel for her with respect to DMB. That stuff drives me crazy. I don't share the general hatred around here for the Counting Crows (I understand it, but I don't have the same visceral, negative response to it like I do for DMB).
posted by wheat at 1:01 PM on March 24, 2007
ludwig_van: She does behave rudely to him (and probably toward others as well). She lashes out at him for not sharing her tastes. And she thinks less of others who have tastes similar to his and/or not like her own.
There is no necessary connection between "being passionate" about music and feeling compelled to "lash out" at someone else's music (or at someone else for liking that music). Sharing your love for music and pointing out what makes it cool for you is one thing. Looking down your nose at people for not sharing your tastes is quite another. The poster wanted help with that. I'm not asking her to feel bad about it. I'm offering advice on how to reframe the situation as a way to improve it.
But I actually feel for her with respect to DMB. That stuff drives me crazy. I don't share the general hatred around here for the Counting Crows (I understand it, but I don't have the same visceral, negative response to it like I do for DMB).
posted by wheat at 1:01 PM on March 24, 2007
The point was that the problem lies with the behavior of being rude, not the belief that some music is crappy. There were a bunch of responses that implied the solution was realizing that there's really no such thing as bad music and can't we all just be friends, which is silly.
posted by ludwig_van at 2:29 PM on March 24, 2007
posted by ludwig_van at 2:29 PM on March 24, 2007
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posted by autojack at 5:01 PM on March 18, 2007 [1 favorite]