"People Skill" Concerns
January 5, 2007 12:56 PM Subscribe
How can I demonstrate that I'm a good employee, despite my weaknesses, and overcome what's being said about me at my last job? How can I demonstrate/prove that my "people" skills are better than my former supervisors are giving in references?
I'm currently in a bind. A huge bind. Prior to moving to a smaller town to be with my fiancee, I spent six years working in a corporate setting as a technical writer, before becoming engaged and then being laid off.
The problem is that my former job, reference-wise, has become a lead weight in terms of finding another job after the move.
From the outset, it wasn't a good job situation. There were territorial/ownership issues, because the IT department's Help Desk refused to participate in a review process for user manuals, and didn't really have a software development process to follow, so screen changes were often arbitrary.
Later, after developing an online help site for a company website with the help of our education services unit, and no input from the Help Desk staff, although they would have gladly been included if asked, I discovered that they were telling field agents out of spite to ignore the content because it wasn't "their"content.
I tried to keep matters professional, but unfortunately, it got personal as well. I also discovered that some of the same Help Desk coworkers were spreading rumors about me in building (for example, one prevalent rumor was that I was gay).
During those six years, I was bounced between 6 different bosses. The first was a hands-off boss who was temporary; the next two were project managers who were good at managing projects, but not good line managers in terms of team building.
The third supervisor, I even had to discuss with HR over an evaluation that violated company evaluation practices. I suspect that she knew about the rumor-milling, but she refused to address it, and instead, hoped to force me to quit as a way of dealing with the issue.
I did the best I could do to get along, and do my job as best as possible, and I did consider bailing from what was an unhealthy work situation, but then a good boss came along, and this one was highly-placed enough to shield me from some of the shennagians I'd been dealing with, so things improved a lot. During that time, I got a couple of years of good reviews from him and some better work opportunities.
However, that boss only lasted two and a half years before he was forced out of the company and replaced by yet another boss, who was a former VP at a larger company in town. It was clear from the outset that she was playing favorites from her old work team.
In the meantime, I and one other person had been tasked out to two program managers to transition into a business analyst/project controller role, which I did pretty well. However, our company was unwilling to redefine a job role for that position, and with budget cuts looming, our bosses decided it would be easier to simply cut our jobs and start from scratch.
Flash forward to 8 months later. I've moved to be with my fiancee. However, the place I've moved to is a smaller town, with very few professional jobs to speak of; my fiancee is a tenured college professor, who isn't in a position to move.
Despite aggressively applying for jobs and dropping off resumes, so far, I've only had two interviews and no success finding a job, and I've suspected part of the problem has been the last job, which I finally proved today.
Right before Christmas, I interviewed very well with a local school district as a technology support person, and they liked me a lot. This was right up to the point that they called my work references: according to the superintendent, I was rated very highly for my technical skills, but my last supervisor at the last job expressed concerns about my "people skills", and I was turned down for the job on that basis.
There are several reasons for my communication problems: I did have to undergo speech therapy when I was younger, and as an adult, I was dealing with several issues in the workplace which were affecting my speaking ability:
1. Allergies - in-building/regional allergies that impacted my ability to breathe, let alone speak, even with allergy meds. Ever since I moved, I have had almost no allergy problems.
2. Learning Differences - I have long suspected (but have not been tested for) the possibility that I have some learning differences, in particular some encoding/processing issues (short-term-long-term memory), which affect both my speaking ability and my processing ability.
Even with those impediments, I admit that my people and communication skills are good, but not great. My fiancee, who also has experience with learning differences, says that my people skills are fine, and she can't understand where these comments are coming from.
At the moment, however, I'm starting to feel like I've been rendered unhirable, which is putting a strain on my engagement and very frustrating given that I'm very intelligent, (have 2 Masters degrees), dedicated, adaptable, hard-working, and prior to this, was employed for 10 years straight following college.
How can I demonstrate that I'm a good employee, despite my weaknesses? Specifically, how can I overcome what's being said about me at my last job, and demonstrate that my people skills are better than my former supervisors are saying? How can I convince a prospective employer to give me a chance?
I'm currently in a bind. A huge bind. Prior to moving to a smaller town to be with my fiancee, I spent six years working in a corporate setting as a technical writer, before becoming engaged and then being laid off.
The problem is that my former job, reference-wise, has become a lead weight in terms of finding another job after the move.
From the outset, it wasn't a good job situation. There were territorial/ownership issues, because the IT department's Help Desk refused to participate in a review process for user manuals, and didn't really have a software development process to follow, so screen changes were often arbitrary.
Later, after developing an online help site for a company website with the help of our education services unit, and no input from the Help Desk staff, although they would have gladly been included if asked, I discovered that they were telling field agents out of spite to ignore the content because it wasn't "their"content.
I tried to keep matters professional, but unfortunately, it got personal as well. I also discovered that some of the same Help Desk coworkers were spreading rumors about me in building (for example, one prevalent rumor was that I was gay).
During those six years, I was bounced between 6 different bosses. The first was a hands-off boss who was temporary; the next two were project managers who were good at managing projects, but not good line managers in terms of team building.
The third supervisor, I even had to discuss with HR over an evaluation that violated company evaluation practices. I suspect that she knew about the rumor-milling, but she refused to address it, and instead, hoped to force me to quit as a way of dealing with the issue.
I did the best I could do to get along, and do my job as best as possible, and I did consider bailing from what was an unhealthy work situation, but then a good boss came along, and this one was highly-placed enough to shield me from some of the shennagians I'd been dealing with, so things improved a lot. During that time, I got a couple of years of good reviews from him and some better work opportunities.
However, that boss only lasted two and a half years before he was forced out of the company and replaced by yet another boss, who was a former VP at a larger company in town. It was clear from the outset that she was playing favorites from her old work team.
In the meantime, I and one other person had been tasked out to two program managers to transition into a business analyst/project controller role, which I did pretty well. However, our company was unwilling to redefine a job role for that position, and with budget cuts looming, our bosses decided it would be easier to simply cut our jobs and start from scratch.
Flash forward to 8 months later. I've moved to be with my fiancee. However, the place I've moved to is a smaller town, with very few professional jobs to speak of; my fiancee is a tenured college professor, who isn't in a position to move.
Despite aggressively applying for jobs and dropping off resumes, so far, I've only had two interviews and no success finding a job, and I've suspected part of the problem has been the last job, which I finally proved today.
Right before Christmas, I interviewed very well with a local school district as a technology support person, and they liked me a lot. This was right up to the point that they called my work references: according to the superintendent, I was rated very highly for my technical skills, but my last supervisor at the last job expressed concerns about my "people skills", and I was turned down for the job on that basis.
There are several reasons for my communication problems: I did have to undergo speech therapy when I was younger, and as an adult, I was dealing with several issues in the workplace which were affecting my speaking ability:
1. Allergies - in-building/regional allergies that impacted my ability to breathe, let alone speak, even with allergy meds. Ever since I moved, I have had almost no allergy problems.
2. Learning Differences - I have long suspected (but have not been tested for) the possibility that I have some learning differences, in particular some encoding/processing issues (short-term-long-term memory), which affect both my speaking ability and my processing ability.
Even with those impediments, I admit that my people and communication skills are good, but not great. My fiancee, who also has experience with learning differences, says that my people skills are fine, and she can't understand where these comments are coming from.
At the moment, however, I'm starting to feel like I've been rendered unhirable, which is putting a strain on my engagement and very frustrating given that I'm very intelligent, (have 2 Masters degrees), dedicated, adaptable, hard-working, and prior to this, was employed for 10 years straight following college.
How can I demonstrate that I'm a good employee, despite my weaknesses? Specifically, how can I overcome what's being said about me at my last job, and demonstrate that my people skills are better than my former supervisors are saying? How can I convince a prospective employer to give me a chance?
Can you give out the contact info of the person you describe as the "good boss"? Sounds like that person has left the company, but is still a legit reference -- just make it clear the person is no longer there. If you don't keep in touch, it would be worth it to track him down and get back in touch. Be sure to ask if he's willing to be a reference. I can't imagine he'd say yes unless he's willing to say postive things about you.
Do you do any volunteer work? A reference from someone in that capacity would likely show you are empathetic, reliable, etc.
posted by handful of rain at 1:13 PM on January 5, 2007
Do you do any volunteer work? A reference from someone in that capacity would likely show you are empathetic, reliable, etc.
posted by handful of rain at 1:13 PM on January 5, 2007
I have been asked for references for people who worked for me who I couldn't stand, who were terrible at their jobs, but I never offered a negative reference. I confirmed the dates of employment and tried to think of at least one positive thing to say about him or her, even if it was only 'he was always neat and presentable'. I would never, ever give a negative reference, just because someone didn't work out in the restaurant I managed doesn't give me the right to sabotage their future employment. Even miserable, incompetent morons can turn their lives around. You are obviously the opposite of a miserable, incompetent moron and your former employer is mean-spirited and unprofessional. In fact (and I am not at all sure about this, you'll need to check), I think it might be illegal in some states to offer negative references. Anyway, I would begin by calling your employer, explain that he is damaging your career, and ask that he refrain from giving you a negative reference. If he refuses, I would simply leave his phone number off of your resume, explain to your prospective employer that the two of you had a personality conflict, and then pad your list of reference contacts who will sing your praises. You can get past this, don't let one jerk get you down.
posted by cilantro at 1:21 PM on January 5, 2007
posted by cilantro at 1:21 PM on January 5, 2007
Look at how they're perceiving you (whether this is fair or not is irrelevant):
(1) Highly educated technical writer.
(2) Worked at a company for ten years and then was let go for people skills.
(3) Being bounced between bosses and not having a good relation with HR further compounds the people skills problem.
So you probably look like an over-educated guy who stuck in school because he's somewhat of a misanthrope. You can't really change the fact that the situation screams out as "know-it-all nerd", that's really beyond your control at this point. The only thing I could recommend given the limited employment opportunities is get out of your field for a bit and get diverse experience.
Two degrees, can't you try teaching? Junior college or high school? I would recommend college, even just a few years will show some diversity and will most likely allow you to network with those about to go into the workforce, allowing you a better idea of what's out there and a good connection base. So important in a small town environment.
posted by geoff. at 1:28 PM on January 5, 2007
(1) Highly educated technical writer.
(2) Worked at a company for ten years and then was let go for people skills.
(3) Being bounced between bosses and not having a good relation with HR further compounds the people skills problem.
So you probably look like an over-educated guy who stuck in school because he's somewhat of a misanthrope. You can't really change the fact that the situation screams out as "know-it-all nerd", that's really beyond your control at this point. The only thing I could recommend given the limited employment opportunities is get out of your field for a bit and get diverse experience.
Two degrees, can't you try teaching? Junior college or high school? I would recommend college, even just a few years will show some diversity and will most likely allow you to network with those about to go into the workforce, allowing you a better idea of what's out there and a good connection base. So important in a small town environment.
posted by geoff. at 1:28 PM on January 5, 2007
I am also confused as to why you need to use him as a reference at all? Just use other references.
posted by chunking express at 1:28 PM on January 5, 2007
posted by chunking express at 1:28 PM on January 5, 2007
Response by poster: Some responses:
1. Stormy - unfortunately, this was a small company, and as much as I would love to just give out the HR number, a lot of job apps I've encountered specifically ask for former supervisor and supervisor's phone #. That one is hard to get around.
2. Handful - I am in the process of looking him up right now and hope to hear back from him.
3. Cilantro - thank you for your response ... I really appreciate the kind words, because you're right about the former employers being mean-spirited and unprofessional. I will likely contact the employer as you suggest.
4. Geoff - I was NOT let go for people skills. Otherwise, they would have let me go and retained the other two people in my workgroup. It was a simple matter of cost; it costs the company far less to pay for a consultant without benefits, rather than an employee at the top of their salary scale. I even have a letter in my file from our HR dept. stating that the termination was not an at-fault termination.
5. Chunking - see my explanation to Stormy - most of the apps I've been filling out specifically ask for the last supervisor's contact info.
posted by Gingercat at 1:53 PM on January 5, 2007
1. Stormy - unfortunately, this was a small company, and as much as I would love to just give out the HR number, a lot of job apps I've encountered specifically ask for former supervisor and supervisor's phone #. That one is hard to get around.
2. Handful - I am in the process of looking him up right now and hope to hear back from him.
3. Cilantro - thank you for your response ... I really appreciate the kind words, because you're right about the former employers being mean-spirited and unprofessional. I will likely contact the employer as you suggest.
4. Geoff - I was NOT let go for people skills. Otherwise, they would have let me go and retained the other two people in my workgroup. It was a simple matter of cost; it costs the company far less to pay for a consultant without benefits, rather than an employee at the top of their salary scale. I even have a letter in my file from our HR dept. stating that the termination was not an at-fault termination.
5. Chunking - see my explanation to Stormy - most of the apps I've been filling out specifically ask for the last supervisor's contact info.
posted by Gingercat at 1:53 PM on January 5, 2007
I am not sure exactly how this works but in some corporations they only give out dates of employment. They can't even say if and why you are let go for fear of lawsuit.
Exactly, and this is a perfect case in point. If what you say is true, you should talk to a lawyer
posted by mkultra at 2:02 PM on January 5, 2007
Exactly, and this is a perfect case in point. If what you say is true, you should talk to a lawyer
posted by mkultra at 2:02 PM on January 5, 2007
Talk to a lawyer. Seriously. (You know the usual, IANAL...)
From what little I understand, legally, past references cannot speak ill of you (as this is pursuable as slander.)
Groups like this maybe worth employing to 'check' on your own references.
With that being said, find references to speak well of you. I would never give someone a name where they didn't speak absolutely glowing of me.
posted by filmgeek at 2:04 PM on January 5, 2007
From what little I understand, legally, past references cannot speak ill of you (as this is pursuable as slander.)
Groups like this maybe worth employing to 'check' on your own references.
With that being said, find references to speak well of you. I would never give someone a name where they didn't speak absolutely glowing of me.
posted by filmgeek at 2:04 PM on January 5, 2007
Response by poster: Filmgeek, MKULTRA,
I'm not sure if this is pursuable as slander or with legal action, if only because I signed a severance agreement with the company, whcih AFAIK, bars me from suing them and vice-versa moving forward.
Bear in mind, the issue is not with my selected references, who I have talked to and who do give me good references, but with former supervisors comments.
posted by Gingercat at 2:16 PM on January 5, 2007
I'm not sure if this is pursuable as slander or with legal action, if only because I signed a severance agreement with the company, whcih AFAIK, bars me from suing them and vice-versa moving forward.
Bear in mind, the issue is not with my selected references, who I have talked to and who do give me good references, but with former supervisors comments.
posted by Gingercat at 2:16 PM on January 5, 2007
Those severance agreements generally aren't worth the paper they're written on.
Seriously, go talk to a lawyer.
posted by mkultra at 2:20 PM on January 5, 2007
Seriously, go talk to a lawyer.
posted by mkultra at 2:20 PM on January 5, 2007
gingercat, i'd just fill out the last reference that spoke well of me. Or just fill in the HR contact rather than the supervisor. I don't think you are under any real obligation to fill in the very last person who supervised you.
posted by chunking express at 2:35 PM on January 5, 2007
posted by chunking express at 2:35 PM on January 5, 2007
Gingercat, you're clearly a decent and principled person. It's no wonder you had things rough in the corporate world...
First of all, stop using this particular former supervisor for a reference. Pick someone, anyone at the company you did good work for and have a good relationship with and list them. Your supervisor's supervisor. A temporary project manager. Let your potential employer hear such ringing praise of your abilities that they forget to ask just exactly where you were on the org chart.
Later on, if you're feeling partularly frustrated with the job application process, amuse yourself by looking up the laws in your former employer's state regarding references. I many, providing negative feedback which results in financial loss is actionable. Compose a letter to the HR department referring to that law, explain what the superintendent related to you, and indicate that any future remarks made by a company employee regarding you that are not backed up by HR documentation will result in a lawsuit. Have some friends make fake reference calls, and if the line doesn't change, sue the hell out of them.
On preview, hell, sue them now. You aren't working anyway...
posted by a young man in spats at 2:43 PM on January 5, 2007
First of all, stop using this particular former supervisor for a reference. Pick someone, anyone at the company you did good work for and have a good relationship with and list them. Your supervisor's supervisor. A temporary project manager. Let your potential employer hear such ringing praise of your abilities that they forget to ask just exactly where you were on the org chart.
Later on, if you're feeling partularly frustrated with the job application process, amuse yourself by looking up the laws in your former employer's state regarding references. I many, providing negative feedback which results in financial loss is actionable. Compose a letter to the HR department referring to that law, explain what the superintendent related to you, and indicate that any future remarks made by a company employee regarding you that are not backed up by HR documentation will result in a lawsuit. Have some friends make fake reference calls, and if the line doesn't change, sue the hell out of them.
On preview, hell, sue them now. You aren't working anyway...
posted by a young man in spats at 2:43 PM on January 5, 2007
You could talk to a lawyer, as noted above.
Only give out the contact info for the "good" boss. List HR's number otherwise.
Take some sort of interpersonal communications course. Volunteer in some sort of role that uses your communication skills -- and get a reference. If it comes up in an interview, you can say that, while you thought you had solid skills in that area, you decided to pursue further interpersonal skills development as part of lifelong learning, since technical people don't always have opportunities to demonstrate and enhance those skills....blah blah.
Could you try working as a consultant or a contractor? You noted that your last company found that it was cheaper to hire a consultant. Could you find a company that has a similar perception? Consulting clients are far less likely to call up your old company -- lots of them hire you just based on how you talk to them. You could even work with some long distance clients, so that you're not bound by the small town.
posted by acoutu at 2:48 PM on January 5, 2007
Only give out the contact info for the "good" boss. List HR's number otherwise.
Take some sort of interpersonal communications course. Volunteer in some sort of role that uses your communication skills -- and get a reference. If it comes up in an interview, you can say that, while you thought you had solid skills in that area, you decided to pursue further interpersonal skills development as part of lifelong learning, since technical people don't always have opportunities to demonstrate and enhance those skills....blah blah.
Could you try working as a consultant or a contractor? You noted that your last company found that it was cheaper to hire a consultant. Could you find a company that has a similar perception? Consulting clients are far less likely to call up your old company -- lots of them hire you just based on how you talk to them. You could even work with some long distance clients, so that you're not bound by the small town.
posted by acoutu at 2:48 PM on January 5, 2007
Gingercat, I realize you weren't let go because of people skills. It does not matter if you were let go because of people skills or not, if you keep using that reference people will assume you do not have people skills.
Even if you use a good boss as a reference, there's nothing guaranteeing they will not contact the company directly to verify employment dates and who knows what will happen after that.
If you were fired for lack of people skills (and HR documented it as such), than you cannot sue. It doesn't matter if it is real or not, you'd have a hard time proving it isn't in court. That is if they have documentation.
But, with documentation you have stating otherwise, it sounds like you have a defamation charge. I'm not familiar with defamation laws, but they cannot simply make something up or exaggerate. Speaking ill of you in and of itself is not illegal, but lacking good faith is. I would at least consult a local attorney to see if you have a case and if it is worth pursuing. Settling out of court for tort damages is a beautiful thing.
posted by geoff. at 3:08 PM on January 5, 2007
Even if you use a good boss as a reference, there's nothing guaranteeing they will not contact the company directly to verify employment dates and who knows what will happen after that.
If you were fired for lack of people skills (and HR documented it as such), than you cannot sue. It doesn't matter if it is real or not, you'd have a hard time proving it isn't in court. That is if they have documentation.
But, with documentation you have stating otherwise, it sounds like you have a defamation charge. I'm not familiar with defamation laws, but they cannot simply make something up or exaggerate. Speaking ill of you in and of itself is not illegal, but lacking good faith is. I would at least consult a local attorney to see if you have a case and if it is worth pursuing. Settling out of court for tort damages is a beautiful thing.
posted by geoff. at 3:08 PM on January 5, 2007
i've been sitting in an HR office when a pissed off manager messed around and dropped a bomb on a reference and that person came back to haunt. i live in SC, which is a work at will state. they dont need a reason to fire you, but if they give a reason it has to be legal. needless to say this manager was in the classifieds not soon after the lawyer called. its a HUGE no-no to eff someone on a reference when its clearly stated in most states' by-laws what you can and can not say. most companies just hire out to a firm that supplies work dates via a recorded phone voice or email. *cough* selectron *cough* NCR...
posted by Davaal at 3:26 PM on January 5, 2007
posted by Davaal at 3:26 PM on January 5, 2007
Nthing the advice to list the good boss or HR. If the job asks about your direct supervisor, you can truthfully point out that your supervision was bounced around between different bosses. Meanwhile, have you done any volunteer work or committee work or anything else that would provide other good recent references? (If not...this is a great idea.)
/nearly didn't get my present job due to weirdo comments by a jerky ex-boss
posted by desuetude at 5:08 PM on January 5, 2007
/nearly didn't get my present job due to weirdo comments by a jerky ex-boss
posted by desuetude at 5:08 PM on January 5, 2007
Gingercat,
I feel for you - I've had a few bosses who didn't like me since I was not necessarily social with them, and I know some perceived me as having poor people skills.
Keep applying everywhere. You will have employers who do not check references (in the past, my references reported to me whether a potential employer contacted them or not -and I have been hired a few times with little to no reference contact).
Some ideas that may or may work for you depending on your location and interest:
1. Does the university your fiancee works at have a public relations office? Do they have a publication? Many hire technical or science people to write their articles. Your background may be a good fit.
2. You said you are located in a small city - but are you near any large cities or metropolitan areas? With prior experience and a few masters degrees, there are work places that would quickly hire you.
3. Freelance? You have the prior experience.
4. If you just want to change your reputation, and try something new just a few months, why not be an adjunct faculty member and teach one course? Then you can use that as your most recent job reference.
Best of luck. You will be hired - it just takes time.
posted by Wolfster at 8:14 PM on January 5, 2007
I feel for you - I've had a few bosses who didn't like me since I was not necessarily social with them, and I know some perceived me as having poor people skills.
Keep applying everywhere. You will have employers who do not check references (in the past, my references reported to me whether a potential employer contacted them or not -and I have been hired a few times with little to no reference contact).
Some ideas that may or may work for you depending on your location and interest:
1. Does the university your fiancee works at have a public relations office? Do they have a publication? Many hire technical or science people to write their articles. Your background may be a good fit.
2. You said you are located in a small city - but are you near any large cities or metropolitan areas? With prior experience and a few masters degrees, there are work places that would quickly hire you.
3. Freelance? You have the prior experience.
4. If you just want to change your reputation, and try something new just a few months, why not be an adjunct faculty member and teach one course? Then you can use that as your most recent job reference.
Best of luck. You will be hired - it just takes time.
posted by Wolfster at 8:14 PM on January 5, 2007
I'd really underline the advice to find someone else to reference for this job. Don't be dishonest about their position but never, never give a prospective employer a name of someone you cannot rely upon to give you a positive reference. Failing a real positive look to give the most neutral reference you can come up with among your various bosses. I really do think that a reference being somewhat off the mark of what is asked for (i.e. "a" supervisor rather than your "last" supervisor) is less damaging than a negative reference. Don't provide references until they are demanded. I never provide mine prior to an interview though maybe you are in a different sort of job market.
People do sue, successfully, for this kind of thing -try googling "work reference defamation" and you'll see it is a hot topic. It doesn't sound to me like you are much inclined to it. If you consider it think very hard about the implications. It is obvious this was an awful job, and you are clearly very mired down in dwelling on your unhappy tenure there. A lawsuit would involve getting very deeply into all of that. Even if you come out a winner it could do you more harm than good.
Resist the urge to try to preempt negative feedback in interview situations. Getting into problems with the past job, trying to explain away what you fear might be being said about you, being "candid and honest" about any perceived weaknesses about people skills or communication - all bad ideas. Always positive, always emphasizing your strengths. Do your best not to let these concerns get into your interview demeanor. To improve your chances, try to get your focus off this last job (which is clearly busting up your self-confidence) and focus on your interview skills, on making a solid presentation of yourself, your skills, your strengths, your experience. Do some formal work (with books or whatever) on your interview skills if you haven't already, if you have do some more. Always positive. Reexamine all your materials, look for any areas to improve in your resume etc. Anything that keeps you focussed on your positive traits and accomplishments rather than dwelling on negative things that are either in the past or largely beyond your control.
Be aware your perception of the role this previous job is playing is likely exaggerated. The assessment that you have been "rendered unhirable" is certainly anxiety talking: it is a poisonous attitude that is probably having a real negative impact on your performance in the job hunt. You are in an admittedly smaller market and I'd argue a generally tougher job market overall, requiring longer searches, than the last time you were out of the box. A long tough search is a real drain because it hurts your confidence and that makes it harder to keep putting yourself out there and sell yourself. Believe in what your spouse is telling you about your abilities, not this clearly dipshit job you had the misfortune of being marooned in for 6 years. Keep your chin up, keep at it, you will find a job.
posted by nanojath at 11:15 PM on January 5, 2007
People do sue, successfully, for this kind of thing -try googling "work reference defamation" and you'll see it is a hot topic. It doesn't sound to me like you are much inclined to it. If you consider it think very hard about the implications. It is obvious this was an awful job, and you are clearly very mired down in dwelling on your unhappy tenure there. A lawsuit would involve getting very deeply into all of that. Even if you come out a winner it could do you more harm than good.
Resist the urge to try to preempt negative feedback in interview situations. Getting into problems with the past job, trying to explain away what you fear might be being said about you, being "candid and honest" about any perceived weaknesses about people skills or communication - all bad ideas. Always positive, always emphasizing your strengths. Do your best not to let these concerns get into your interview demeanor. To improve your chances, try to get your focus off this last job (which is clearly busting up your self-confidence) and focus on your interview skills, on making a solid presentation of yourself, your skills, your strengths, your experience. Do some formal work (with books or whatever) on your interview skills if you haven't already, if you have do some more. Always positive. Reexamine all your materials, look for any areas to improve in your resume etc. Anything that keeps you focussed on your positive traits and accomplishments rather than dwelling on negative things that are either in the past or largely beyond your control.
Be aware your perception of the role this previous job is playing is likely exaggerated. The assessment that you have been "rendered unhirable" is certainly anxiety talking: it is a poisonous attitude that is probably having a real negative impact on your performance in the job hunt. You are in an admittedly smaller market and I'd argue a generally tougher job market overall, requiring longer searches, than the last time you were out of the box. A long tough search is a real drain because it hurts your confidence and that makes it harder to keep putting yourself out there and sell yourself. Believe in what your spouse is telling you about your abilities, not this clearly dipshit job you had the misfortune of being marooned in for 6 years. Keep your chin up, keep at it, you will find a job.
posted by nanojath at 11:15 PM on January 5, 2007
I was in a similar situation a few years back. The company I was working for found out about my personal website which was a jab on the stupidity people face in corporate America these days. It was all done outside of company time, but as more people are learning these days...what you do on your own time can still get you fired. Yay. Granted, things had already spiraled past the point of control long before that. I had similar issues with people. The environment there was setup to be bloodthirstingly competitive politically and while I put in more effort and achieved more positive results than my predecessors (or even successors. There's been five since I left there four years ago), I still expected to receive a negative reference.
Despite what people are telling you, a former employer can say whatever they want about you in a reference...as long as they can prove it's true. (Note: I said can prove it's true, not that it actually has to be true.) Otherwise, you can sue for slander if you can prove it false. This is a great thing for them, because you can't say anything negative about them in an interview without being considered a whiner. I decided during my interviews to take that double standard to task. When asked about that reference, I told the truth. The honest truth, with no attempts to make excuses or exaggerate their failings or my successes. I then asked them to judge the work I did there, and when confirming with references that they pay close attention to what previous employers said about me. Simply, it was "ask yourself: is it so easily conceivable that I went from the hero the others tell you about to the zero my former employer describes so quickly? " That tactic payed off when they called the person I worked for just prior to the losers. They specifically asked "why would the people he worked for right after you have such a negative opinion of him?" and he answered "There's obviously something wrong with them. Spoony's the guy I brought in when we had a customer we couldn't please. He always brought back their business. If they say there was a problem with his people skills, I say he wasn't dealing with people." All of my previous employers said similar things. It was made clear that the black spot on my record was the place I worked, not me or the job I did.
So, what I'm saying is, don't let this one company's failings be the failure you live with for the rest of your life. If you've had other successes, use them to compensate for it. Remember, you want to work for an employer who appreciates honesty and can see that you've turned your negative into a plus. Seriously, you spent six years in hell and came out of it a better person. Who can't appreciate that? :)
posted by Spoonman at 8:59 AM on January 6, 2007
Despite what people are telling you, a former employer can say whatever they want about you in a reference...as long as they can prove it's true. (Note: I said can prove it's true, not that it actually has to be true.) Otherwise, you can sue for slander if you can prove it false. This is a great thing for them, because you can't say anything negative about them in an interview without being considered a whiner. I decided during my interviews to take that double standard to task. When asked about that reference, I told the truth. The honest truth, with no attempts to make excuses or exaggerate their failings or my successes. I then asked them to judge the work I did there, and when confirming with references that they pay close attention to what previous employers said about me. Simply, it was "ask yourself: is it so easily conceivable that I went from the hero the others tell you about to the zero my former employer describes so quickly? " That tactic payed off when they called the person I worked for just prior to the losers. They specifically asked "why would the people he worked for right after you have such a negative opinion of him?" and he answered "There's obviously something wrong with them. Spoony's the guy I brought in when we had a customer we couldn't please. He always brought back their business. If they say there was a problem with his people skills, I say he wasn't dealing with people." All of my previous employers said similar things. It was made clear that the black spot on my record was the place I worked, not me or the job I did.
So, what I'm saying is, don't let this one company's failings be the failure you live with for the rest of your life. If you've had other successes, use them to compensate for it. Remember, you want to work for an employer who appreciates honesty and can see that you've turned your negative into a plus. Seriously, you spent six years in hell and came out of it a better person. Who can't appreciate that? :)
posted by Spoonman at 8:59 AM on January 6, 2007
Response by poster: Thanks again to everyone who has responded to this thread. Moving forward, I am doing the following: 1)Two of my 3 given references are project managers who I worked for at the last company, and I have e-mailed all 3 asking for input and advice on this situation. 2)One of my fellow coworkers who also got fired at the same time is trying to help me track down the "good" boss, and 3)I am pursuing some volunteer work locally. Some comments back: Wolfster - I would love to freelance or work in a larger metro area. However, the metro areas nearest to me are Kansas City (1.5 hours away), Des Moines (2 hours away, and where I used to live and work), and Omaha (2 hours away). KC would be the best choice, but the technical writing field there has all but collapsed (the local STC chapter's webpage has a 404-Not Found error, if that's any indication). Des Moines is the next best, but the financial services industry there has taken a beating. A lot of companies were either drawing down staffing or were in virtual hiring freezes about the time I got let go. Omaha is too far away. My best-ideal choice would be a job that would let me telecommute with occasional trips, but most businesses and contractors I've encountered seem to view telecommuting as undesirable, and would rather you show up for an 8-5 (or in one case I checked into a 7:30-5) schedule Other notes: as far as an interpersonals/communications course, I was a Toastmasters member before moving down, and I achieved my CTM (basic cert), and ATM-B (1st level advanced), so it's not as if I'm a complete nordo. FYI, I would LOVE to teach at the local college; however, the English dept. here only looks at people with degrees in the subject area, and my 2 Masters are in History and Library Science.
posted by Gingercat at 4:27 PM on January 8, 2007
posted by Gingercat at 4:27 PM on January 8, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
If I was in your situation I would give the prospective employeer only the number for your past HR person, not your boss. They would be better about being more discreet with answers.
posted by stormygrey at 1:08 PM on January 5, 2007