Non-drug-using piercing fetishist wants to know about needle exchanges.
September 7, 2006 6:55 PM Subscribe
I am a fan of play piercing, but I've had a hard time finding a local source of hypodermic needles to play with. We've got a heroin problem here, and pharmacies aren't willing to sell them to individuals without a prescription for IV or IM medication. But we do have a thriving (and legal!) anonymous needle exchange program. And while I know there are other options — shopping online, mail order, hospital supply houses and so on — I'm still curious...
1) I'm pretty sure it would be wrong to take needles for free that were intended for broke addicts. But what if I gave the exchange a donation to cover their costs and effort? Would there still be some sort of ethical problem then?
2) Would I be expected to prove I was an IV drug user? Might they refuse to give me needles if they suspected I wasn't?
3) What risks would I be exposing myself to? I've checked out the exchange site, and it's in a well-lit, public area in an okay neighborhood, so I'm not worried about the other clients. I'm more concerned about ending up on some government list; are there other risks of that sort that I should think about, and how worried should I be?
Extra bonus karmic answer points if one of you perverts out there has actually tried this and can tell me about your experience.
1) I'm pretty sure it would be wrong to take needles for free that were intended for broke addicts. But what if I gave the exchange a donation to cover their costs and effort? Would there still be some sort of ethical problem then?
2) Would I be expected to prove I was an IV drug user? Might they refuse to give me needles if they suspected I wasn't?
3) What risks would I be exposing myself to? I've checked out the exchange site, and it's in a well-lit, public area in an okay neighborhood, so I'm not worried about the other clients. I'm more concerned about ending up on some government list; are there other risks of that sort that I should think about, and how worried should I be?
Extra bonus karmic answer points if one of you perverts out there has actually tried this and can tell me about your experience.
Ask the volunteers. They may have seen this before; even if they haven't, it at least lets them know that there's a demand. I don't know where you live, but these programs are usually justified in the US as research programs - that is, in exchange for clean needles, cookers, and so on, the clients agree to respond to questionnaires. Whether there would be questions aimed at you, or if you'd just have to make it up, I don't know (or answer "N/A"?).
Another thing to consider is that not everyone getting these needles is an addict themselves. I remember reading an article where one person was described as getting equipment for her mother; she expressed feelings of guilt (for being an enabler) to the volunteers running the exchange, who responded that she was indeed enabling her mother - but that rather than looking at it as enabling the mother's addiction, she should look at it at enabling her mother to avoid the dangers of unsterile equipment.
posted by spaceman_spiff at 8:10 PM on September 7, 2006
Another thing to consider is that not everyone getting these needles is an addict themselves. I remember reading an article where one person was described as getting equipment for her mother; she expressed feelings of guilt (for being an enabler) to the volunteers running the exchange, who responded that she was indeed enabling her mother - but that rather than looking at it as enabling the mother's addiction, she should look at it at enabling her mother to avoid the dangers of unsterile equipment.
posted by spaceman_spiff at 8:10 PM on September 7, 2006
My one friend who's out to me about liking this sort of thing orders hers from a veterinary supply catalog.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 8:16 PM on September 7, 2006
If you're in any amount of a smallish town, just order them online. Get like 100 of them and be done with it.
posted by nadawi at 8:42 PM on September 7, 2006
posted by nadawi at 8:42 PM on September 7, 2006
1) from an ethics perspective, you getting needles doesn't mean someone else DOESN'T get them so I think it's okay. In fact these places often keep statistics that shows that people are using their service and so in using them (for your own reasons) this might actually help them.
2) Often depends on the funding for the needle exchange. In the US, based on the places I am familiar with, I don't think so.
3) again in the US, this is a topic many people discuss as there were often police vans seemingly hovering nearby the local needle exchange in Seattle. Since you clearly don't need these needles [they're easy to buy online] there is a little bit of subculture tourism involved in patronizing a needle exchange, but as peeedro said, the needles are to help people be safe and even play piercers need to be safe, not just IV drug users.
posted by jessamyn at 8:49 PM on September 7, 2006
2) Often depends on the funding for the needle exchange. In the US, based on the places I am familiar with, I don't think so.
3) again in the US, this is a topic many people discuss as there were often police vans seemingly hovering nearby the local needle exchange in Seattle. Since you clearly don't need these needles [they're easy to buy online] there is a little bit of subculture tourism involved in patronizing a needle exchange, but as peeedro said, the needles are to help people be safe and even play piercers need to be safe, not just IV drug users.
posted by jessamyn at 8:49 PM on September 7, 2006
The needles provided by needle exchange are made for injection, they do not have removable tips and can be too large for play piercings. Some insulin syringes are tiny enough, but like I said these are not just the tips but the entire mechanism. Additionally the needles you need are the longer ones, and many insulin needles are very short.
I'm not sure what your area is like, but what you need are just the tips, not the entire hypodermic, and the tips are not usable on their own for any sort of drug use as you need the rest of the syringe to attach them to. These tips are available at your local medical supply store/pharmacy. For play piercing you want a small gauge, somewhere in the 22-25-27 guage range (i'd suggest 25), where the smaller the number the larger the hole. Also, you want the longest ones they have (i think it is 1.5 inches), and are all colour coded based on gauge.
Hopefully this helps.
posted by Jairus at 10:20 PM on September 7, 2006
I'm not sure what your area is like, but what you need are just the tips, not the entire hypodermic, and the tips are not usable on their own for any sort of drug use as you need the rest of the syringe to attach them to. These tips are available at your local medical supply store/pharmacy. For play piercing you want a small gauge, somewhere in the 22-25-27 guage range (i'd suggest 25), where the smaller the number the larger the hole. Also, you want the longest ones they have (i think it is 1.5 inches), and are all colour coded based on gauge.
Hopefully this helps.
posted by Jairus at 10:20 PM on September 7, 2006
First off, everything that Jairus said (I marked it as an excellent post).
Beyond that, I'd say that its ethically alright to get needles from an exchange if they were what you wanted....but I don't really think they are what you want.
Play piercing works best if you have a variety of sizes available to you. Jairus says 22 to 27, I tend to go for a smaller gauge (larger hole). I currently have 18 to 27. The point (pardon the pun) is that having a variety of sizes will allow you to accomodate a variety of people and that just makes for more all around fun.
Furthermore, if you go with a shop that caters to people with kinky medical interests, you can also easily pick up all the other things you'll need. Like tiny corks to safely cap the needles after they are inserted, like nitrile gloves and betadine wipes and alcohol prep pads. Oh, and you definitely, definitely, need a sharps container for used needles. Disposing of blood contaminated needles in the regular trash is a big no-no.
You can pick up a starter kit with a variety of needles and most all the safety gear you need from someplace like Playpiercingkits.com. I know the proprietor and he's a knowledgeable guy and quite willing to entertain questions. Their kits also come with a 26 page ebook on play piercing. Basic kits start around $25 and will give you plenty of tools for experimentation.
Bottom line: yes, you could probably get some free needles locally that you may, or may not, be able to use for play piercing. But you'd likely get a much better experience for not much money if you got a kit from a company set up for such things. And if you find that you get really, really into it, then you can start ordering bulk from medical supply warehouses.
posted by afflatus at 10:44 PM on September 7, 2006
Beyond that, I'd say that its ethically alright to get needles from an exchange if they were what you wanted....but I don't really think they are what you want.
Play piercing works best if you have a variety of sizes available to you. Jairus says 22 to 27, I tend to go for a smaller gauge (larger hole). I currently have 18 to 27. The point (pardon the pun) is that having a variety of sizes will allow you to accomodate a variety of people and that just makes for more all around fun.
Furthermore, if you go with a shop that caters to people with kinky medical interests, you can also easily pick up all the other things you'll need. Like tiny corks to safely cap the needles after they are inserted, like nitrile gloves and betadine wipes and alcohol prep pads. Oh, and you definitely, definitely, need a sharps container for used needles. Disposing of blood contaminated needles in the regular trash is a big no-no.
You can pick up a starter kit with a variety of needles and most all the safety gear you need from someplace like Playpiercingkits.com. I know the proprietor and he's a knowledgeable guy and quite willing to entertain questions. Their kits also come with a 26 page ebook on play piercing. Basic kits start around $25 and will give you plenty of tools for experimentation.
Bottom line: yes, you could probably get some free needles locally that you may, or may not, be able to use for play piercing. But you'd likely get a much better experience for not much money if you got a kit from a company set up for such things. And if you find that you get really, really into it, then you can start ordering bulk from medical supply warehouses.
posted by afflatus at 10:44 PM on September 7, 2006
As much as this topic creeps me out (I'm afraid of needles) try your local farming equipment store. Where else are farmers going to get needles to inject antibiotics/hormones into their animals? And, last time I witnessed this, the needles are a huge size.
posted by shepd at 5:44 AM on September 8, 2006
posted by shepd at 5:44 AM on September 8, 2006
Best place to buy stuff like this online is bme. I've bought many needles and other toys from them no problems, ships from up north--> needles
posted by killyb at 7:43 AM on September 8, 2006
posted by killyb at 7:43 AM on September 8, 2006
DISLAIMER: My knowledge of needle exchange programs comes from NGO AIDS programs in Canada. You don't specify where you are.
I'm pretty sure it would be wrong to take needles for free that were intended for broke addicts. But what if I gave the exchange a donation to cover their costs and effort? Would there still be some sort of ethical problem then?
What organization is running the needle exchange? Is it an AIDS organization? If so, their goal in running the needle exchange is to stop the spread of HIV/AIDS through shared needle use. So long as you will be sure to not share the needles in your play (a good idea anyway) then your use of their needles fits with the objectives of the program.
No matter what organization is running the program, making a monetary donation is a wonderful idea if it's within your means. Alternately you could volunteer or some other in-kind support. This is especially important if you are American, because the US government has a ban on federal dollars supporting needle exchange programs despite the reccommendation of the World Health Organization, their own Sugeon General, and at least 8 American studies on the topic. The US is the only country in the world with such a ban - even Iran supports needle exchange programs.
Would I be expected to prove I was an IV drug user?
Generally, no (though it may depend on the organization, see disclaimer). If it's an AIDS organization running the exchange their goals are two fold:
1) Get clean needles to people that might otherwise share or use dirty needles.
2) Make contact with high-risk individuals & people living with the disease to encourage them to get tested, help them stay safe (by supporting them in making safer choices), and get them treatment if they're infected.
Towards the first point, they want to be used by their target population so they minimize the hoops that have to be jumped through. A no-strings-attached system is going to work better than one that places demands on the users. They want the program to be a non-threatening place so they can start to build the trust required in order to work towards the second goal.
Might they refuse to give me needles if they suspected I wasn't?
I doubt it. Especially if they know you're also making a donation. Perhaps you could make an anonymous call to them beforehand and ask. They aren't there to judge you, they've got more important work to do, and they're quite practiced in supporting people without judgement - see spaceman_spiff's story about the girl enabling her Mom to be safe.
posted by raedyn at 8:18 AM on September 8, 2006
I'm pretty sure it would be wrong to take needles for free that were intended for broke addicts. But what if I gave the exchange a donation to cover their costs and effort? Would there still be some sort of ethical problem then?
What organization is running the needle exchange? Is it an AIDS organization? If so, their goal in running the needle exchange is to stop the spread of HIV/AIDS through shared needle use. So long as you will be sure to not share the needles in your play (a good idea anyway) then your use of their needles fits with the objectives of the program.
No matter what organization is running the program, making a monetary donation is a wonderful idea if it's within your means. Alternately you could volunteer or some other in-kind support. This is especially important if you are American, because the US government has a ban on federal dollars supporting needle exchange programs despite the reccommendation of the World Health Organization, their own Sugeon General, and at least 8 American studies on the topic. The US is the only country in the world with such a ban - even Iran supports needle exchange programs.
Would I be expected to prove I was an IV drug user?
Generally, no (though it may depend on the organization, see disclaimer). If it's an AIDS organization running the exchange their goals are two fold:
1) Get clean needles to people that might otherwise share or use dirty needles.
2) Make contact with high-risk individuals & people living with the disease to encourage them to get tested, help them stay safe (by supporting them in making safer choices), and get them treatment if they're infected.
Towards the first point, they want to be used by their target population so they minimize the hoops that have to be jumped through. A no-strings-attached system is going to work better than one that places demands on the users. They want the program to be a non-threatening place so they can start to build the trust required in order to work towards the second goal.
Might they refuse to give me needles if they suspected I wasn't?
I doubt it. Especially if they know you're also making a donation. Perhaps you could make an anonymous call to them beforehand and ask. They aren't there to judge you, they've got more important work to do, and they're quite practiced in supporting people without judgement - see spaceman_spiff's story about the girl enabling her Mom to be safe.
posted by raedyn at 8:18 AM on September 8, 2006
Go to the pharmacy and tell them your cat is diabetic. I needed needles for a science project or something way back in high school. They said they could not sell the needles to me, but they could sell them to my diabetic cat (I don't even have a cat).
posted by geoff. at 12:11 PM on September 8, 2006
posted by geoff. at 12:11 PM on September 8, 2006
I do volunteer at a needle exchange (not run through an AIDS organization), so here's that perspective for whatever it's worth... I definitely recommend calling beforehand if you can find the number for the exchange you have in mind. It's entirely possible that they will not regularly stock the type of needles you need. It's also entirely possible that they would be able to start stocking a small number, if they knew there was a need. My exchange has certain sizes of needles we regularly stock, but we do keep small caches of other sizes/types on hand because we know we have a few exchangers who need them (e.g. intramuscular syringes.)
For what it's worth, there's not much that the people running an exchange haven't heard, and they're not likely to be surprised by your needs, or care that you're not doing drugs. If they're a good exchange, their main concern is to prevent the spread of disease, and that includes teaching people how to use needles for play, safely and without sharing.
As for government lists, chances are the exchange tries hard to keep their services as anonymous as possible. Chances also are that they're being forced by the board of health or some other entity to collect at least some basic information like zip code. Again, if you call first you can find out what sort of information they're going to need, and be prepared with a lie if you want. The exchange staff aren't going to mind that you're lying; they're most likely annoyed that they have to ask you for any information to begin with, because they're almost as interested in preserving your anonymity as you are.
However, it's not necessarily true that you getting needles doesn't prevent anyone else from getting them. Maybe you live near an unusuall well-funded exchange, but chances are that they are operating on a shoestring and have to put limits on the number of needles they can buy and give out, so spending money on your special needles means money they're not spending on needles for someone else. This is NOT to discourage you from using their services - keeping you safe from sharing needles is just as important as keeping someone else safe, whether they're a heroin user or a diabetic or a steroid user. But it does mean that any donation you do want to make will certainly be needed and appreciated.
posted by Stacey at 3:02 PM on September 8, 2006
For what it's worth, there's not much that the people running an exchange haven't heard, and they're not likely to be surprised by your needs, or care that you're not doing drugs. If they're a good exchange, their main concern is to prevent the spread of disease, and that includes teaching people how to use needles for play, safely and without sharing.
As for government lists, chances are the exchange tries hard to keep their services as anonymous as possible. Chances also are that they're being forced by the board of health or some other entity to collect at least some basic information like zip code. Again, if you call first you can find out what sort of information they're going to need, and be prepared with a lie if you want. The exchange staff aren't going to mind that you're lying; they're most likely annoyed that they have to ask you for any information to begin with, because they're almost as interested in preserving your anonymity as you are.
However, it's not necessarily true that you getting needles doesn't prevent anyone else from getting them. Maybe you live near an unusuall well-funded exchange, but chances are that they are operating on a shoestring and have to put limits on the number of needles they can buy and give out, so spending money on your special needles means money they're not spending on needles for someone else. This is NOT to discourage you from using their services - keeping you safe from sharing needles is just as important as keeping someone else safe, whether they're a heroin user or a diabetic or a steroid user. But it does mean that any donation you do want to make will certainly be needed and appreciated.
posted by Stacey at 3:02 PM on September 8, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
I think you are wrong to assume that the free needles are only for "broke addicts," the needles are provided to prevent the transmission of disease. Clean needles are provided in a no-questions-asked environment because the harm that can be caused by dirty or shared needles is greater than any use of a clean needle. By using a clean needle for play piercing or for IV drug use, you are meeting the same goals of your local public health professional: stopping the transmission of infection and disease. In other words, you get your kicks one way, they get their kicks another way, but your municipality's public health goals are being met as long as everyone does it safely.
If you are concerned about taking away resources from those who need it more, then you can give back in other ways. Consider volunteering for the needle exchange program or giving targeted donations, write letters to your elected officials in support of the program, or volunteer helping the addicted, unemployed, homeless, or needy in your area. It's not just about the needles, it's about reducing the dangers faced by you fellow citizens.
Good luck and be safe.
posted by peeedro at 8:02 PM on September 7, 2006