I'm an noob at engagement

September 7, 2006 6:44 AM

What should I know when buying an engagement ring?

I'm the first in my group of friends to propose, so I don't really have any experience to draw from.

Things I do know:
- The size of her ring finger (more or less)
- She wants a silver band with a diamond (sorry, no alternatives. Please no diamonds vs other gems discussion)
- I know about blood diamonds, and I will go for a Canadian one
- The 4C's: Importance to me is 1) Cut, 1) Clarity, 3) Caret, 3) Colour
- Budget: $4k - $5k CDN
- Do not wish to buy online or used
- No family heirlooms I can use

Things I wish to know:
- Franchised Jeweler vs individually owned (i.e. Fred's Diamonds). I do know one owned by a friend's parents (so somewhat trustworthy)
- Are prices negotiable?
- Anything special I need to ask the Jeweler (aside from certificate of the diamond)
- Do I pay with credit card? or cash? (CC preferable)
- Things I need to know about sales tactics (i.e. They suggest you want to buy this, but you don't really want to buy this)

This would be so much easier if I was buying something electronic...Thanks in advance!

posted by anonymous to Human Relations (41 answers total)

Franchised vs. Individual-- though I usually vote for the mom-and-pop, with this I would go franchised. Mr. got mine at Jared's in the states and it has been nice to have the warranty transferrable to our new city, 1500 miles away from where we bought it.

Oh, and get the service agreement/warranty. Free sizing, cleaning, etc., for life, and if the diamond is chipped or lost they'll replace it free. Definitely worth it.

Find a franchise that's not in a mall, though. The malls are crazy busy and hectic-- find a store that's free standing or in a strip mall. Get to know a salesperson by name, and take your time. Bring along a friend who can smell the bulls--- if you're getting fed a line by the sales person.

Ask if their prices are firm. Ask if they ever have sales, and when the next one will be. Ask about payment plans, no interest, etc. Mr. opened a charge account and got no interest for 36 months or something.

And shop around. Jewelry stores differ vastly in price for the exact same thing. Find a place with good service and a decent price. She'll be going back with you to get the ring cleaned, look for wedding bands, etc., so you don't want skeezy guys or pushy ladies waiting on you.

One more thing-- you said a silver band-- I'm not an expert, so someone else can correct me, but silver is pretty soft. I wouldn't trust it to hold my diamond well, though I'm a bit of a tomboy and not too delicate with it. Go with white gold.

Good luck!!!
posted by orangemiles at 6:57 AM on September 7, 2006

Big YES on negotiable. Maybe have a printout of a comparable stone and it's price from Blue Nile with you when you go to a local shop. I wouldn't buy with cash. Get familiar with using the loupe and take a look at each stone closely. Don't feel rushed or hurried. If they don't offer a loupe, ask for one. You seem prepared though...
posted by distrakted at 6:58 AM on September 7, 2006

Poke around on bluenile.com as well. And go to the friend's parents' place, if at least to get an education.
posted by orangemiles at 6:59 AM on September 7, 2006

Hi. Congratulations!! I used to work in a jeweller so I know a little bit about this. But I'm British so I imagine it could a little different in the US or Canada. But here is some advice; Its not a silver band she wants its a platinum one. Platinum is the same colour as silver but much more valuable and hard wearing. It is the best thing to set diamonds in. The most traditional engagement ring is a solitaire round brilliant. Thats a single round diamond on a band. She might want this or something a bit more daring. An ascher cut is my personal favourite. It looks a bit like a cushion (square with rounded corners).

You have the order of the four C's wrong. I think Clarity is the most important. The better the clarity the better the sparkle!

You will probably get a better deal with an individually owned merchant. Your friends parents sound like a good idea. Prices are absoloutley negotiable. But remember your making a financial as well as an emotional investment. Dont let the worry that you might be paying a little too much stop you from buying the ring you really want.
Use whatever payment method you prefer.
Of course the person in the store is trying to make a sale. If you feel uncomfortable with thier aproach leave. Its hard to make the right choice if the assistant isn't on your side. They should try to be as emotionaly involved in this as you are.

There isnt any particular info you need to know. But in your price range a certified diamond is a must.

Remember that she's going to wear this everyday for the rest of her life. Keep her personality and tastes at the fore front of your mind. They should also be at the fore front of the sales person's mind too.

Most good stores should also offer an exchange policy!
Good luck!
posted by Robot Rowboat at 7:12 AM on September 7, 2006

To echo Robot Rowboat, the metal should be platinum (or slightly less nice: white gold.) Do NOT use silver.

Also, the most importance advice is to remember her taste. If you're unsure, I'd recommend asking a friend of hers who knows her taste very well. (It might get back to her, but you've already discussed the possibility of getting engaged, right? This isn't out of the blue, I'm sure.)

As for cash vs. credit card, I think pretty much any reputable jeweler will accept CC, but you might ask if there's a discount for cash since they are charged a fee (~3% I think??) for a sale with a credit card.
posted by JMOZ at 7:29 AM on September 7, 2006

For me it became very VERY important that the ring was returnable for a full refund for one week after the purchase (the first time I asked her).
posted by iurodivii at 7:31 AM on September 7, 2006

Congratulations! I just got engaged last week, and got my ring from a locally-owned jewelry store here in Brooklyn. I got a sapphire ring, not a diamond, so I can't help you there, but my one piece of advice is this: get a nice RING. Does your g/f like an antique look? Mine/hers is new (and platinum, yes, get platinum), but designed to look like an antique, and she's constantly complimented on it.

Basically, my advice is not to blow your entire load on the stone so that you're left with just a simple band to hold it. You're not getting a huge rock for that money, so a nice, distinct band will set hers apart from everyone else's.
posted by mkultra at 7:32 AM on September 7, 2006

Hold your nose, go into a local jeweler(preferably one who you've seen or heard her mention) and look around to see something you think she'd like. The people in the store probably already have an idea of what is right and proper, but ignore them or they'll just prey on your confusion. Don't be afraid to ask them to modify a design you see in the case, if they can't do that, you're in the wrong place. Go to a place that actually has the designer on staff.
posted by Mr. Gunn at 7:32 AM on September 7, 2006

Oh, and find out about post-purchase adjustments. Is sizing included in the price? If she, for some reason, doesn't like the stone or band, will they take it back? The latter will likely depend on whether you're choosing a ring they have in-stock, or one that needs to be special ordered.
posted by mkultra at 7:34 AM on September 7, 2006

I do know one owned by a friend's parents...

Go there. Yes, diamond prices are negotiable — but if you've read that most diamonds include a 300% markup and you think you'll cut a great deal by offering only 100% over what they paid, prepare to be laughed out of the store. If you don't have to deal with strangers, don't, because there's no way you'll get a discount comparable to what you might score from your friend's parents.
posted by cribcage at 7:37 AM on September 7, 2006

For payment, credit card might be better because if you need to contest the charge for any reason (wrong stone, poor quality) Visa or Mastercard has your back. If you can't come to a resolution with the vendor they'll chargeback the money regardless. If you pay cash you're SOL in that unlikely but extremely unpleasant circumstance. (Although given credit card fees, you could probably negotiate a lower price by paying cash, so you might consider that at a trustworthly jeweler like your friend's parents.)
posted by robinpME at 7:48 AM on September 7, 2006

I was also the first in my group to propose. I had no clue as to what to get. I think with your budget you can do well though. I think I spent slightly less than < 3000 a few years ago, and that was for a platinum ring with a main diamond and two suspended baguettes.br>
I was always under the impression that the chains were expensive and 'pushy'.

I used Bill Barnes online - they were competitive, very helpful, not pushy, and very accomodating to me as I waited too long to get the ring before a planned trip (and surprise proposal). The rep helped me pick out a nice diamond that would look right on the ring and also fit my budget. I'm not affiliated with them other than being a very satisfied customer who would recommend them. Communication was not a problem either, via email and phone.

Also - check out the Verragio line - that's what I ended up getting - they have a lot of nice designs, many in platinum. With alot of their rings they suspend the diamonds above the ring itself and it makes them shine even more. They're custom made, and because of that my rep at BillBarnes helped expedite the process and overnighted the package to my hotel when I was already on my trip. Close to our wedding I worked with them again to get the matching wedding band - again, very helpful.

Good luck!
posted by MarkLark at 7:52 AM on September 7, 2006

Sorry, didn't see that you didn't want to buy online. For what it's worth they're a brick-and-mortar jeweler that deals online.
posted by MarkLark at 7:55 AM on September 7, 2006

Why not online? I had a very good experience with Blue Nile - twice.

It found the exact stone(s) I wanted to my specifications, including a slave-free origin cert, shipped it incredibly quickly, and is more than accommodating about returning it if you think it sucks. When I priced the difference with local stores (in San Franciswco and New York), it was about 30% discount when the slave-free origin factor was taken into account. Personally, I found it alarming how many times shop clerks tried to talk me out of a concern about personal ethics.
posted by meehawl at 7:59 AM on September 7, 2006

Two added thoughts: As far as clarity goes I'd rather have an excellent diamond with one or two inclusions than a generally ok diamond, even though both could be listed at the same clarity - just make sure you like the sparkle. Second, you might want to consider getting it insured (Jewelers Mutual, for example). They are pretty accomodating, including as I recall putting her name/residence on the policy without letting her know and adding blanket coverage for items under $1000 for a small additional yearly charge.
posted by true at 8:09 AM on September 7, 2006

Dittoing the ixnay on silver. White gold or platinum. White gold is a lot less expensive, but it is a slightly warmer tone.

First of all, no reputable jeweler is going to want to set your nice diamond in a silver band, because silver is just not as durable. Insisting on silver tells the jeweler that you haven't done your homework.

Second of all, a lot of people choose silver because it's cheaper. Insisting on silver tells the jeweler that you want a nice diamond but want to cheap out on the band.

You'll have to make the judgement call as to whether size is more important than premium clarity or color. Don't let the jeweler push too hard with preconcieved notions about what women want, but also don't be so stubborn as to reject all advice out of hand.
posted by desuetude at 8:30 AM on September 7, 2006

Engagement ring threads have been done to death here on Askme, but here are a few notes:
1. When she says silver she means platinum. Prepare to spend a few hundred dollars more than the equivalent gold setting.
2. De Beers is heavily invested in Canadian mining to the tune of $2 billion over the next three years. Your diamond will be technically conflict-free but it will help to boost the profits of the international cartel as well as continue to drive up demand. Canadian is always a better purchase than African but it's something to keep in mind.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 8:32 AM on September 7, 2006

Some stores offer a "trade-in" policy on their engagement jewlery -- so that 5 or 10 or 20 years from now, when her style and tastes have changed, she can go back there, trade in her ring, and put the original purchase price towards an upgrade to a bigger stone, a 3-stone ring, etc. This may seem unsentimental to a pair of newlyweds, but I know several older women who were tired of their circa 1975-engagement jewlery, and grateful that their store gave them a generous amount towards a shiny new piece. (As discussed many times at AskMe, resale values on diamonds are incredibly low, so this sort of "guarantee" towards trade-in value is a nice bonus.)
posted by junkbox at 8:37 AM on September 7, 2006

See the diamonds before they are set in the ring. The ones that are pre-set are usually of a lesser quality because they are for those who are in a rush to get a ring. You shouldn't be in a rush.
posted by furtive at 9:36 AM on September 7, 2006

I just bought a ring this summer (again, sapphire, so no diamond assistance...sorry!) and I found the most important thing to me was patience. Take your time, find one you want, and don't be either pressured or "wowed" into buying the first thing you see.

Find something you like, then walk away from the store. Go to another store, and try to find something similar; keep doing this until you're convinced you have found the one you want.

I took about a week to find mine, and I am quite happy with the results. (and so is she...).

Ditto platinum over silver, too.
posted by pdb at 9:44 AM on September 7, 2006

If you go white gold instead of platinum, a couple things to keep in mind:

One, 18K is not necessarily "better" than 14K gold; they're different alloys and the resulting color is quite a bit different. (And 14K is not necessarily "more durable" than 18K anymore.)

Second, watch out for rhodium plating -- it gets you the "platinum" look with white gold, but it wears and needs to be replated disturbingly often. If you're getting white gold at all, get gold that's sufficiently white that you don't need it plated, or just get platinum already.

Oh, and one more thing to consider: I let nyxie choose her engagement ring after I proposed. Worked out better for both of us, even though what she ended up having made was awfully close to what I would have picked anyhow.
posted by mendel at 9:54 AM on September 7, 2006

Just to piggyback on this thread, if someone could explain what it is about the "4Cs" that someone who only cares about the prettiness factor would find important, that would be helpful (to me, at least). E.g., A good cut is important because it makes the diamond _______. In other words, if looking for the prettiest diamond ring, which are the most important "Cs" and why?

And I'm Nth'ing the no silver. Silver is a metal that women often wear when they are demonstrating how un-bling they are - pretty, often used with unique, artsy rings without stones, or with semi-precious stones, but not for precious, bejeweled, expensive rings. Maybe what she meant was that she doesn't like the yellow look of gold.

You might want to think about her finger size, in terms of what size diamond her fingers can accommodate. If she has very small, slender fingers, some bigger rings might look overwhelming.

I've heard you can have diamonds laser engraved with a sort of tagging number so that if she ever leaves the ring with a jewelry for any reason, she can be sure she's getting her diamond back. Maybe someone else here knows more about how that works.
posted by n'muakolo at 9:56 AM on September 7, 2006

n'muakolo: How are you defining "prettiness"? For example, I wouldn't associate prettiness with how large the stone is, so then the C(aret) would not be as important as the Cut, Clarity, Colour.
posted by mutantdisco! at 11:11 AM on September 7, 2006

silver's lame, white gold is the way to go. and don't discard the idea of an antique ring, the jewelers or ex-jewelers in this thread can explain to you that certain elegant diamond cuts have simply been ditched since the 1920's-1930's, so you can really get something super-elegant if you choose an actual antique ring or stone
posted by matteo at 11:18 AM on September 7, 2006

Antique diamonds have a soft romantic glow that many people find very appealing. Antique diamonds typically have smaller tables, higher crowns, deeper pavilions and thicker girdles than their modern counterparts. Antique diamonds were cut to maximize carat weight, not "fire". That's why the proportions of old diamonds are quite different from their modern counterparts.

Diamonds were cut by hand until the early 1900's. This was a laborious, time-consuming process. Unfortunately, many antique diamonds have been re-cut with modern cutting techniques. This has caused demand for these old cut diamonds to soar in recent years, along with the prices that people are willing to pay for them.

posted by matteo at 11:20 AM on September 7, 2006 [1 favorite]

Another vote for Blue Nile. They ship very quickly, and when I had the stone set in the ring ($30) they appraised the diamond as having the same specs Blue Nile said they did. The place I bought the ring from was selling a diamond of the exact same specs for twice what I paid.

Also, if you or she has a sister, I highly recommend getting their opinion on rings you think she'd like. Mine was a great help in steering me in the right direction.
posted by TungstenChef at 11:26 AM on September 7, 2006

if looking for the prettiest diamond ring, which are the most important "Cs" and why?

"Pretty" is almost entirely in the eye of the beholder. To me, if I were buying a diamond, I'd value clarity over color, and cut over caret. Size, as they say, isn't everything. If you have, say, $2000 to spend on a diamond, don't get the biggest stone that $2000 will buy; get the clearest, best cut diamond. It will be a smaller stone, but it will look (at least to me) more impressive.
posted by pdb at 11:28 AM on September 7, 2006

How are you defining "prettiness"?

I don't really know.... I guess sparkle would be the key, but I'm not very informed on this subject, so I don't know what people in general consider a pretty diamond.
posted by n'muakolo at 11:28 AM on September 7, 2006

Personally I think Cut is the most important. Each of the different types of cuts (solitaire, princess, emerald, etc.) all have ideal ratios for the number and angle of the facets of the stone. Being as close as possible to those golden ratios will mean that your stone will reflect as much light as possible.

In mind, going full bore on clarity is a waste because on a stone several grades below "perfect" (and I apologize for not looking up the horrible jeweler nomenclature) you aren't going to be able to see the inclusions unless you use a loupe. How often are you looking at your stone with a loupe?

Color can make a difference but keep in mind that it can be hard to tell what color a stone is unless it is compared to other stones and under "good" light. Also keep in mind that once your stone is mounted, your eye will be fooled a bit by the color of the mounting that it is in. There is a reason why they show you these stones on black cloth under pure light, its easiest to tell the difference. In other, more real world scenarios, its much harder.

Caret of course is just size. I think its relationship to sparkliness is pretty well known. I'll add for this characteristic, keep in mind the size of the person that you are buying a ring for. A big rock on a real petite woman can look grossly out of proportion.


Lastly, I will say that you should ask around to see anyone can get you in to see a diamond wholesaler. That is where I got my engagement ring and got it for significantly cheaper than a department store/mall/standalone jewelery store. This place doesn't have expensive retail locations to pay for and everyone there is hard core in the business so they are extremely knowledgeable. Also, you get to feel like you in the beginning of Snatch when they buzz you through multiple layers of security.
posted by mmascolino at 11:30 AM on September 7, 2006 [1 favorite]

The sixteenth century saw the development of the rose cut, which enjoyed popularity until the early 1900s. Believed to have originated in India, the rose cut is so-named because its facets resemble the petals of a rosebud. The rose cut has a flat bottom and domed crown, whose facets come to a point in the center. The number of facets can range from simple three- and six-facet cuts, to more complex 12-, 18- and 24-facet patterns.

posted by matteo at 11:31 AM on September 7, 2006

Be careful with certain metals...a higher grade platinum may sound nice but we got a ring that was 950 and it started bending. Talked to a metalurgist later on and he said with the ring made the way it is it should have been 900 or 850...a lower grade platinum.

We are now considering having a new ring made of Silver...

chain stores are okay but avoid Gordons...we have had nothing but problems with them. Told their jeweler she has a bunch of other platinum rings that are not beant and his reply was "I would like to see that" in a very nasty tone.
posted by UMDirector at 11:40 AM on September 7, 2006

In NYC at least, I've spoken with several diamond dealers and stone setters in the diamond district who say it's common knowledge that if you pay with cash, you will get up to a 20% discount. It's SOP supposedly, in order to cheat the IRS. One guy I spoke to said it also shows you know what you're doing, and in the diamond district that apparently counts for something, when they're setting their price.

The diamond business is all very crooked over here, was the consensus. (I am not a diamond dealer nor expert in these matters, just someone fascinated by the diamond trade. So it's possible the people I spoke to were flukes.)
posted by np312 at 12:07 PM on September 7, 2006

Good advice, of course, but I'm seconding the insurance. Check with your homeowners, but be careful - our homeowner's insurance policy, if it covered my ring, would require that the insurance company replace the ring with what it felt was a comprable diamond. Jewlery's Mutual, on the other hand, will just give you a check for the covered amount and let you do the replacing. This was important to me becuase my husband went out of his way to get the candian diamond, etc.
posted by dpx.mfx at 12:49 PM on September 7, 2006

It's actually easier than buying electronics: there are only four variables to worry about, and you don't have to worry if it'll be compatible with your LAN.

Just shop around and look at a lot of gems first; the more you compare gems of different quality, the easier it'll be for you to spot the differences. (And also the more quickly you'll be able to determine whether the store you're in has anything decent at all, which isn't always the case. Some places seem to specialize in size over quality.)

what it is about the "4Cs" that someone who only cares about the prettiness factor would find important, that would be helpful (to me, at least).

In order of importance (in my opinion:)

Cut: A good cut maximizes the reflected light from each facet in the gem. The traditional 'brilliant round' shape is the most popular for a reason, because it's very reflective and sparkly (but if they're cut too shallow to work around a flaw, or too deep to increase the carat size, the reflections go in the wrong direction and get lost.)

Color: The better the color, the clearer (and again, more sparkly) the gem. Cheaper diamonds will be faintly (or not-at-all-faintly) yellowed. Diamonds are rated on a color scale from D (perfectly colorless) down to J (cheap and icky). The sparkle of a D or E is really striking compared to the lower grades.

Clarity: This measures the number of "inclusions" in the gem: inclusions are small flaws or specks of non-diamond material embedded in the gem. The scale here is I (imperfect), SI (slightly included), VS (very slight) and VVS (very very slight), with several numerical subcategories at each level. I wouldn't get an I or SI, but once you get up in to the VS or VVS range, you need a magnifying glass to see the flaws. (But if possible, buy diamonds loose rather than preset, because sometimes flaws are hidden by the setting.)

Caret: size of the gem (its weight, actually). Simple enough. I personally am much more impressed when I see a small, high-quality gem than by big cheap hunks of rock.
posted by ook at 1:05 PM on September 7, 2006 [1 favorite]

(In case the 'order of importance' wasn't clear, I meant that cut was most important, followed by color -- which I find really obvious, you can see bad color from across the room, and good color really stands out -- then clarity, and least important of all caret weight.)
posted by ook at 1:08 PM on September 7, 2006

And, to give you another viewpoint, I think color is much less important. In fact, I like the way the fire shows in a J better than a D. I'd prioritize as cut and clarity being about equal, then color, then carat.
posted by desuetude at 2:03 PM on September 7, 2006

Some stores offer a "trade-in" policy on their engagement jewlery -- so that 5 or 10 or 20 years from now, when her style and tastes have changed, she can go back there, trade in her ring, and put the original purchase price towards an upgrade to a bigger stone, a 3-stone ring, etc. This may seem unsentimental to a pair of newlyweds, but I know several older women who were tired of their circa 1975-engagement jewlery, and grateful that their store gave them a generous amount towards a shiny new piece.

It seems unsentimental to this long-term married guy too. My wife professes to enjoy the fact that her ring is a small stone -- it reminds us both of how it used to be when we started out. I'm about 99% sure she is being candid with me (that is as confident as I ever get). I know that when I seriously suggested "upgrading" she looked at me like I proposed we cook the cat for supper.
posted by Lame_username at 2:16 PM on September 7, 2006

Do you have a COSTCO??
They say the best place in the states to but them by far is costco.
posted by beccaj at 5:04 PM on September 7, 2006

Did I miss if this is a big surprise or not? From the original question, it looks like not. If she's already shared some thoughts on it, not a big surprise, etc, take her window shopping. My sweetie did this with me, and we looked at 4 or 5 very "different from one another" things, then ages later (ok, maybe not *ages*) he went back and picked one quite similar to one of the 4 or 5.

When I asked him how he picked the one he picked, he said "I didn't think I could go wrong if I picked the shiniest one of the lot". It's platinum, Scott Kay, and very shiny. When we finally got married (more ages later), ersatzjef had luckily kept the business card with the style number written on it - they no longer actively carried the matching wedding ring at Bailey, Banks and Biddle, so it had to be special ordered. So keep that kind of thing in mind, maybe.
posted by ersatzkat at 5:26 PM on September 7, 2006

Once you've settled on a stone, you might consider getting it set in an inexpensive "tester setting" for the proposal. If your intended has unique taste, she can create or select a custom setting after she's said yes. You get to keep the surprise, but since she'll be wearing the ring, she'd probably appreciate the ability to design something that will be part of both of your lives from here on in.

Also, there's a vast difference between what looks good window shopping and what one wants to live with. Many diamonds are set so high that they catch on everything. This also increases the risk that she'll lose the ring if she feels she has to take the ring off to wash her hands or can't wear it with gloves while working in the garden. (I chose a very low, custom setting for all of these reasons. And I'm much happier with it than I would've been with what I'd thought was my first choice when we were "just looking around.")
posted by truenorth at 7:57 PM on September 7, 2006

I'm catching up after a week of not reading much here, so I hope it's not too late, but my husband read the previous edition of this book when he was buying my ring, and he found it really valuable, with lots of specific advice that he hadn't seen anywhere else. (And I love that he went to the trouble!)
posted by daisyace at 9:31 AM on September 9, 2006