Looking to buy a MacBook, but...

July 7, 2006 12:49 AM

Looking to buy a MacBook. Wanting to make sure it's ready for primetime.

Buy now, buy later?

So, I'm set to buy a new mid-range MacBook to replace my four-year-old G3 iBook. I want to buy before mid-September (so that I can take advantage of the Buy a Mac and get a free iPod Nano student special) but, before I do, I am wondering about a couple of issues I've heard about. Those issues are:

A. a certain mooing sound—that's fixed now, yes?

B. high temperature perhaps compounded by excessive thermal paste, fixed? (my old iBook would get a bit toasty so I'm used to hot, I just don't want the MacBook to get too hot or so hot that it's having trouble)

C. a discoloration of the plastic near the trackpad, apparently a reaction with oils from people's hands or something. Fixed or no?

Finally, a perhaps unpredictable bonus question: I know that occasionally Apple will "silently update" their processors, bumping the speed up without actually coming out with a new model. As I expect this to be my computer for the next few years I'd like it to be as speedy as possible for as long as possible. MacRumors' Buyers Guide notes that the MacBook only debuted 52 days ago so a bump in the next month or two would seem a bit premature, but... what do you think the odds are they'll bump it up this summer?

posted by blueberry to computers & internet (42 comments total)

I've owned a 15" Powerbook for the last 3 years and am a very happy owner, a 13" MacBook just arrived Wednesday, but I haven't done much with it yet. The current generation of MacBooks take advantage of Intel Core Duo processors (which have replaced G5 processors in the iMacs and G4 processors in the laptops). Performance on a RAM-upgraded 13" MacBook is fairly indistinguishable from the $500 more expensive MacBook Pro.

(Getting all that out of the way and tackling the questions)

a. 'feature' of the MacBook Pro family's early firmware - fixed. Can also happen with bad fans, but I haven't seen this widely reported for MacBooks.

b. Rumored to be semi-fixed in the latest releases, but still an issue. IMO: These notebooks are still expected to get hot enough on the bottom when being seriously used (i.e. rendering, editing, video, compiling) that you don't want them touching bare skin, and they really need a hard flat surface beneath them for proper air flow. This is a function of faster processors, not a bug in the design process.

c. Acknowledged by Apple and supposedly fixed in the newest shipments. If you do have a problem, it should show up fairly quickly and would be covered under warranty.

As for the updates, I seriously doubt it. The next processor that Apple will unveil is the Intel Core Duo 2, the 64-bit version of the Intel Core Duo. Although it's possible that they'll stuff this processor in iMacs and most certain that it will be in the new workstations and servers, I find it unlikely that the new processor family will quickly find its way into the MacBook.

Also, a 20% bump in processor speed means almost nothing these days, most of your noticable speed/performance will come from having sufficient RAM (but don't upgrade from Apple, buy some cheap-but-excellent Mushkin!)
posted by onalark at 1:17 AM on July 7, 2006

a certain mooing sound—that's fixed now, yes?

People are still reporting mooing on mac forums, and some even claim that the 10.4.7 update made it worse. There hasn't yet been a firmware update for the macbook, only for the macbook pro. I've never seen a reliable estimate as to how widespread the loud version of the mooing is, and I suspect it's much less widespread than watching the macinternet would have you think.

a discoloration of the plastic near the trackpad, apparently a reaction with oils from people's hands or something. Fixed or no?

As far as I can tell (I've been trying to figure out the same things you have, lately), noone even knows to what extent apple has looked at the problem. There were some reports on news-ish sites (e.g.) last week that it was fixed (along with rumors of a materials change) but they were never confirmed or sourced, and the more reputable sites retracted the report. People seem to have lately (in the last few weeks) had much more success getting their discolored macbooks fixed under warranty, based on reports in various apple forums I've been tracking -- so I've decided not to worry about the discoloration w.r.t. my purchase.
posted by advil at 1:18 AM on July 7, 2006

c. Acknowledged by Apple and supposedly fixed in the newest shipments. If you do have a problem, it should show up fairly quickly and would be covered under warranty.

This report spread through the mac blogs like wildfire, and was always couched in very factual terms, but the only version that had anything approaching an actual statement by apple claimed that it has not been publicly acknowledged or fixed. But they do appear to now be covering this under warranty, given various forum reports.
posted by advil at 1:25 AM on July 7, 2006

Got a mid-range Mac Book yesterday and there's no iMoo. I swear Safari is a whole lot faster than my dual processor G5. Obviously too early for the discolouration thing, but I know I read somewhere that Apple have apparently authorised replacement of discoloured parts. Although I've only set the machine up (installed software etc), it's not been that hot. I had it on my bare legs this morning and it was warm. So far, very happy with it.
posted by TheDonF at 1:31 AM on July 7, 2006

Oops forgot to ask:

- any suggestions on a good credit card that has that "buy using us and we'll double your warranty" feature?
posted by blueberry at 1:33 AM on July 7, 2006

advil, yeah I figured that if this was happening to a lot of people and/or Apple wasn't doing anything about it there'd be people marching to Cupertino with pitchforks. (looks out window) No pitchforks.

TheDonF, good to hear. Looking forward to the new processor after using a G3 for so long.
posted by blueberry at 1:38 AM on July 7, 2006

Here's the article on the staining issue
posted by TheDonF at 3:14 AM on July 7, 2006

A comment I've made previously regarding the heat issue. Neither of the two firmware updates have improved the situation. YMMV.
posted by romakimmy at 4:24 AM on July 7, 2006

I heard they're looking to release Leopard, the new OS X update, around August/September time. Or at least 'unveil' it. Might be worth hanging fire?
posted by Happy Dave at 4:24 AM on July 7, 2006

- any suggestions on a good credit card that has that "buy using us and we'll double your warranty" feature?

American Express is a good choice for this, but they are technically a charge card. Just remember, if you use them or another card, to put the entire purchase price on the card (i.e. don't split it or partially pay with cash) or else it probably won't be covered.

You should also just buy Applecare.
posted by jeremias at 4:27 AM on July 7, 2006

With Apple especially, but in general I wait until the 2nd version of any product to buy it.
posted by k8t at 4:39 AM on July 7, 2006

a. On this MacBook the fan spins up and down, yes, but I'd have to be awful fussy to mind it.

b. It gets hot along the top edge, but the bits where your hands go pretty much always stay cool. I can use it in bed, but the base gets warm after an hour or two.

c. The plastics have been changed, yes.

d. I'd take a look at the screen before you buy. I discovered really bad colour-shifting and ghosting on scrolling. Safari's worst: two-finger scroll a Flickr window to see what I mean. If it doesn't bother you, go for it.
posted by bonaldi at 5:26 AM on July 7, 2006

I am wondering about a couple of issues I've heard about.

The Apple blogosphere has an enormous infrastructure and very little to talk about. The simple fact is that if more than a small fraction of people were returning MacBooks with problems, Apple would withdraw the thing from sale (or at least stop shipping them temporarily). They can't afford to deal with a huge number of repairs/returns, so you've got to assume that the vast majority of people are happy with their purchase.

I know that occasionally Apple will "silently update" their processors, bumping the speed up without actually coming out with a new model.

I presume you mean the MacBook Pro speed updates, which were done so that their top-end model matches other manufacturers. This doesn't apply to the MacBook.

I heard they're looking to release Leopard, the new OS X update, around August/September time. Or at least 'unveil' it. Might be worth hanging fire?

No. There'll be at least 4 months before it goes on sale for software to be updates and bugs to be fixed, and Apple has historically only offered free updates to people who buy new in the last month before it goes on sale (eg Panther unveiled June 24, 2003, released Oct 24, 2003, free upgrades only for Macs bought after Oct 8, 2003).
posted by cillit bang at 5:58 AM on July 7, 2006

This doesn't relate to your explicit questions, but the one person I know with a Macbook has been very unhappy with the new style keyboard, and finds the wrist rests much less comfortable than on her previous iBook. So, it might be worth spending an hour typing in the store, just to get a feel for the ergonomics.
posted by j-dawg at 6:41 AM on July 7, 2006

I upgraded from a Pismo to a MacBook and have experienced no problems at all (though I have the black so discoloration isn't a worry). The MacBook does get much warmer than my old laptop, but not any hotter than a Compaq that I was using for a while.
posted by john m at 7:46 AM on July 7, 2006

Please wait.

Mac fans are not exaggerating MacBook problems out of boredom. (!) Most MacBook / Pros make a high-pitched whining noise during regular use, and it's pretty annoying. My 3-week old 15" Pro started to whine after 2 weeks of use, like most others.

I knew about the problems but I needed the computer. If you don't have a pressing reason to get one now, just chill out and wait for a real revision. The best way to stay on top of the quality problems is to follow MacInTouch reader reports. Someone has recently written in that there's finally a logic board rev, but wait for confirmation on that.
posted by Doctor Barnett at 9:14 AM on July 7, 2006

I've owned a MacBook for about one month, upgraded the RAM to 2GB myself (it was easy!) and have experienced no problems related to heat, discoloration or strange sounds.

One intermittent problem I had with dropped signals and reboots, which involved the drivers for Airport, was resolved with a clean OS reinstall and upgrade.

There *have* been some quality issues with the first batch, but remember selection bias: the people who complain on public forums and support discussion groups are the people who are experiencing problems; most people aren't.

You're always going to be safer waiting for the second or third hardware revision of a new-model *anything*; that being said, all of the MacBook owners I know personally in NYC, and there are quite a few, are delighted with their machines (me included.)
posted by enrevanche at 10:26 AM on July 7, 2006

You should also just buy Applecare.

Yes, yes, yes. My very old iBook just had some sort of massive problem and wouldn't turn on. I take it in to the Genius Bar, thinking they'll tell me to shell out for a new one- and what do you know? It was still under warranty via AppleCare. I could have kissed myself.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:33 AM on July 7, 2006 [1 favorite has favorites]

Conroe's supposed to be here in a week. If you can stand it, I'd wait out most of that student special deal to see if there'll be MacBooks with Conroe and/or price drops for MacBooks with Core Duo in that time.
posted by Zed_Lopez at 10:52 AM on July 7, 2006

I have no problem except for the occasional moo during a certain temp range. It does get hot, but does't bother me. Even the moo is only a problem in a silent room.

But no, it's not fixed. Maybe a firmware update will help, or you'll just be lucky and get one that's perfect.

I love mine.
posted by justgary at 11:42 AM on July 7, 2006

Re: selection bias, there's a much lower volume of complaints for new Minis and iMacs. There are people who've gone through 4 different MBPs and found the first 3 to be whiners. There are people who've cased floor models in quiet Apple stores, hearing it on most of them. It's all on record.

Survey says, it's not a rare defect. It's a common, minor one. And that's fine, but I expect more from Apple.
posted by Doctor Barnett at 11:45 AM on July 7, 2006

Conroe won't be put in the MacBook; it's a desktop processor.
Merom isn't out until August/September, and even then, I'd expect it to hit the MBP first and trickle down to the MB for "holiday season".
These are all Intel codenames, by the way - when actually released, they get renamed "Core 2 Duo [letters and numbers] according to a somewhat random scheme.
Last thing: the rebate form mentions specific SKUs, which change when the processors get bumped. If they do upgrade processors, you may not eligible for the Nano rebate.
posted by heeeraldo at 12:14 PM on July 7, 2006

Re: selection bias, there's a much lower volume of complaints for new Minis and iMacs. There are people who've gone through 4 different MBPs and found the first 3 to be whiners. There are people who've cased floor models in quiet Apple stores, hearing it on most of them. It's all on record.

That's a sample size of like 8 out of maybe half a million made so far. It's a statistical near-certainty that several people will find such a result when even only a tiny percentage overall is defective. Blogger rants citing third-hand information do not change that.
posted by cillit bang at 12:50 PM on July 7, 2006

jeremias, ThePinkSuperhero

I'd love to get AppleCare, but can't really afford it just now. As I understand it though, I can still buy it within the first year (the warranty period). So my plan is to sign up for it a couple of months down the line. (speaking as one who had to buy a new logic board for his iBook)

"Can I extend service coverage on my MacBook beyond the warranty?
The AppleCare Protection Plan for MacBook extends hardware repair service and technical support coverage to three years from the MacBook’s date of purchase. AppleCare Protection Plan for MacBook must be purchased while the MacBook is covered under Apple’s One-Year Limited Warranty."
http://www.apple.com/au/support/macbook/service/
posted by blueberry at 1:33 PM on July 7, 2006

No it's not like 8. All first hand reports. No "bloggers." (?)
posted by Doctor Barnett at 1:48 PM on July 7, 2006

Those are mostly sample sizes of 1, and self-selecting.
posted by cillit bang at 1:56 PM on July 7, 2006

Yeah, I guess you're right. It's just an extraordinary coincidence that I read hundreds of reports for several months, got a MacBook Pro because I had too, expected it to whine, and it did.
posted by Doctor Barnett at 2:07 PM on July 7, 2006

Zed_Lopez, thanks for the tip.

I wasn't sure what Conroe was exactly, but assuming it to be a processor, I did a quick google search and saw people talking about Conroes or more probably Meroms (what looks to be the laptop version of the Conroe processor) going into future MacBooks. Scrolling through forums I wasn't seeing the specifics jump out as to what would make them desirable or when exactly they might show up.

Then I found some info that I'll paste here for future readers:

"...Merom is Intel's 64-bit mobile processor which is said to have better performance than the current Core Duos with the same power consumption. The Merom processor is also said to be pin compatible with the current Core Duo processors. Merom processors would presumably be used in upcoming MacBook Pros"
—MacRumors, April 20th, 2006

"Late last week, Intel made news at an analyst meeting in which CEO Paul Otellini revealed an accelerated rollout schedule for products based on Intel's next-generation microarchitecture. According to reports by the Inquirer, DigiTimes, and others, the server part, Woodcrest, will be the first of the new lineup to hit the streets this coming June, followed by Conroe (the desktop part) in July and Merom (the mobile part) in August," Hannibal reports for Ars Technica.

"So those of us who've been waiting for the Merom-based MacBook now have a more specific timeframe to work with. It looks like we'll see them officially unveiled at the August WWDC."
—MacDailyNews, May 3rd, 2006

"Merom is Intel's next-generation notebook chip. A 64-bit processor with multiple cores and 2-4 MB of cache, Merom is the successor to the Yonah (Core Duo) chip found in the current MacBook and MacBook Pro. Merom will run at clock speeds of 1.83 - 2.33 GHz with bus speeds of 667 - 800MHz. Since Conroe is based on Merom both chips may be marketed under the "Core 2 Duo" brand name. Merom could arrive in a speed-bumped MacBook Pro as soon as August and then in MacBooks after that."
—ZDNet's The Apple Core blog, June 27th, 2006

Of course these reports should probably be taken with a grain of salt just in case.
posted by blueberry at 2:37 PM on July 7, 2006

heeeraldo, good point about SKUs. While the nano would be nice to get, it's just frosting, I'd prefer a slightly faster machine (so that I can get the longest usage out of it) on it's own as opposed to a slightly slower one and a free nano.
posted by blueberry at 2:43 PM on July 7, 2006

I've had a BlackBook in daily use for almost three weeks now. I may be jinxing myself by saying this, but:

a) I'm a bit anal when it comes to new hardware, and hypercritical of any flaw, noise, ding, or other oddity. I have not heard a single moo.

b) Yes, they get hot. But too hot? Pfft. I also own a 17" AlBook, and my BlackBook gets, subjectively, no hotter under load. This is a twin-core, 2.0GHz fire-breathing machine crammed into a case less than an inch thick. It's going to be hot.

c) The black MacBook hasn't any discoloration issues, so I can't address that.


The only people I've seen screaming about how widespread and troublesome these issues are are those who either have nothing better to talk about, or who are experiencing the problems themselves, and have a deep personal investment in the situation.

Or, in other words, I agree with JC's take on the whole kerfuffle.
posted by jammer at 3:07 PM on July 7, 2006

For what it's worth, I bought a black MacBook at the Apple store in St. Louis week before last. I owned it for approximately 48 hours before returning it, due to Mooing and slow screen refresh rate. I know the MacBook has an integrated video card and it is not meant to be a screamer, but the slow refresh rate I am speaking of is the actual pixels redrawing on the screen as you scroll, for example. I'm weird about that, but as I scroll at a medium speed on my Powerbook G4 things are clear and readable. On the Macbook, it got fuzzy until I stopped moving, then cleared up. Annoying.

as to the moo, it was very real, although how much it would bother you might vary. In an office, I doubt you would notice it, but in a Library, hotel room, or other quiet place, you will definitely notice it, and it will make you slowly insane. (YMMV) :)

I decided to eat the $150 it would cost to return my little Macbook, and chalk it up to a life lesson. I knew better than to buy a Rev1 apple product...
posted by jwhowa at 8:18 PM on July 7, 2006

jwoha, that drives me mad as well. It's smooth scrolling, which you can't turn off in Safari. FireFox works fine with it.
posted by bonaldi at 8:24 PM on July 7, 2006

You can turn off smooth scrolling in the Appearance panel of System Preferences. Should disable it for Safari and everything else.
posted by Doctor Barnett at 8:44 PM on July 7, 2006

Yeh, you'd think. Except it doesn't. The lovely people at Safari insist this isn't their problem, despite it working with older (PPC-only) versions.
posted by bonaldi at 9:00 PM on July 7, 2006

Go for it. None of the problems are significant, and you are unlikely to be hit by any of them. The processor speed should be a non-issue; the MacBooks are very fast.

I have had a MacBook Pro since May, and I'm 100% happy, which surprised even me, since am not only a life-long PC user, but also a life-long desktop user; I love my new notebook life.

And the keyboard is heavenly. So much better than the old black PowerBook keyboards (I kept getting my fingertips stuck under the edges), and as good as my external Logitech ultraflat.
posted by gentle at 8:33 PM on July 8, 2006

"The best way to stay on top of the quality problems is to follow MacInTouch reader reports...
posted by Doctor Barnett at 9:14 AM PST on July 7"

Just a note for others that that quoted link was for info about MacBook Pro's. The MacInTouch reader reports for the MacBook (not Pro) are here.
posted by blueberry at 8:05 PM on July 10, 2006

Yes, I should have been more clear on that, though it's my impression from the MacBook's problems page that it's affected by the same whine. Since the Pro was introduced first it has a longer history.

My closing remarks (here, anyway) on this contentious topic: Lacking a scientifically administered study of the products, it's not possible for any of us to know for sure if a noise problem is "common" or "rare." Many users will simply not notice it, though that doesn't make the noise okay. The high complaint rate for noises on MacBooks (compared to Intel iMacs) at MacInTouch is at the very least a warning.

That warning should be one factor, among many, in your decision to buy today's MacBook, today's Lenovo, or tomorrow's MacBook. Personally, I'm glad that I was aware of the problem before my purchase and was able to make an informed decision to get one anyway.

Bzzzz.
posted by Doctor Barnett at 11:33 AM on July 11, 2006

Okay, it now seems that Amazon is offering MacBooks (any of the three different models) with a $100-off rebate. Might this be indictative of Apple trying to "clear the channel" to make room for updated ones?
posted by blueberry at 5:12 PM on July 12, 2006

Perhaps another possible reason to wait for Apple's August Worldwide Developers Conference:

"Second-gen iPod nano on tap for August" [via ThinkSecret]
posted by blueberry at 10:49 PM on July 18, 2006

Just a note for other readers, someone asked a similar question on July 12th over at the Apple.com forums:
"I need a laptop for college, Get macbook or wait for newer revs?"
posted by blueberry at 6:07 PM on July 21, 2006

My Macbook runs Word like a dog. Much much slower and more prone to hang than my old iBook G4. If you are a daily Office user, I'd hold off.
posted by roofus at 3:23 AM on July 30, 2006

I use Office occasionally but write what I need and get out (besides I'm used to running it on a G3/600 so I can't imagine a huge hit in speed).

For other people who might check this thread later, Rob Griffiths of Macworld magazine suggests that if you are concerned about getting the latest/greatest Mac, don't buy a new machine a couple of months before the Macworld Expo in January or the WWDC (which this year is in August).
posted by blueberry at 5:06 PM on July 30, 2006