Jump!

May 26, 2006 10:41 AM

Help me jump over a bar (superman-like), land on the ground and roll. Without hurting myself.

So, for my martial arts class, I gotta jump over a bar that's going to be about 1 meter (3') off the ground. I have to jump forward, land, roll and get up. Unfortunately, I hate leaving the ground. Last time I tried something like that I destroyed my shoulder. I'm restarting my attempts. I figure I'm going to start at about 6" off the ground and progressively bring the bar higher. I've also briefly thought about joining a gymnastics gym of some sort.

Anyway, I'd like to hear some suggestions on whether my method is viable or possible alternatives. Thanks in advance.

posted by aeighty to Sports, Hobbies, & Recreation (22 answers total)

Going for a private lesson (or two) at a local gymnastics gym is your best bet. Tell them you need to learn a dive roll, I'm sure they'd be more than happy to help.
Can you do a good solid forward roll? That would be the first thing to work on. If you have that down, start in a handstand and roll out. You want to make sure to keep your knees and head tucked in tightly and your back in a nice round shape (I see a lot of kids slamming on their back on this - make sure you practice on a mat or soft surface). After practicing these, you'll be a little more prepared for the dive roll.
I am a gymnastics coach. If you need more help, my email is in my profile.
posted by denimflavored at 10:56 AM on May 26, 2006

It's all about catching yourself with your hands just a teensy bit, then tucking your head under and rolling out of it. The tuck is the hardest, and most essential part of what you're describing.

I think your method sounds good.
posted by dead_ at 10:57 AM on May 26, 2006

Work out your calfs and quadriceps with squats and such. Work out your abs as well, so you can quickly tuck your legs up. Be careful with repetitive jumping, you will destroy your knees.
posted by milinar at 11:00 AM on May 26, 2006

This is the general form you probably want to use. It essentially stays the same regardless of the height you are working with.

link
posted by paxton at 11:00 AM on May 26, 2006

Wait, martial arts class is asking you to do this, but isn't teaching it to you?
posted by Plutor at 11:02 AM on May 26, 2006

I taught this to myself in the college dorms and performed the trick in the hallway, which was industrial carpet over concrete -- no padding. Needless to say, I did hit my head more than once....

You use your hands to time the rest of the roll -- or to bail out if your angle of approach is wrong. If you jumped right and your angle is good -- you want to be ballpark 45° to the ground -- use your outstretched hands detect the presence of the oncoming ground. As soon as they touch, immediately tuck your chin to your chest and start bending your spine. Simultaneously use your arms to slightly slow your descent and to smoothly guide the rest of your body over the your head. The first point of contact with the ground besides your hands should be the back of your head, which your arms helped gebtly place on the floor, followed by our shoulders, then your curved back, and then feet. The backs of your legs need not slap the floor if you keep your knees bent.

Oh, and don't do what I did. Practice on soft surfaces. Got a king bed handy?
posted by pmbuko at 11:12 AM on May 26, 2006

take a few aikido classes if that is not the martial art you are studying. They're all about rolling. They could probably teach you the basics of great rolling and you can go practice on some mats at the gym.
posted by milarepa at 11:16 AM on May 26, 2006

I did hapkido for about a year. The dive roll was definitely something you were supposed to work up to. We were taught to NOT have the head contact the ground at all. Imagine a line starting from the pinkie finger of one hand running diagonally to the little toe of the opposite foot. This was the ideal path of your body contacting the ground. Getting that line to the desired curvature while leaping headfirst over something is best started by learning to roll around on that line. Falling backwards from a standing position and reversing the path (toe to pinkie) is a good conditioning exercise. Don't forget to slap the mat, either. It helps dissipate momentum. Within a few months I was able to clear five people bent over at the waist standing hip to hip. Do NOT land on your head.
posted by bastionofsanity at 11:25 AM on May 26, 2006

Also, long low obstacles are hard. The required tuck before landing is much more difficult when you are lower to the ground. My recommendation is to start just above knee level.
posted by bastionofsanity at 11:28 AM on May 26, 2006

Response by poster: Thanks for all the comments.

Plutor: Well, they are teaching it to us. Everyone else seems to get it but me, so I need a little extra instruction.

Paxton: thanks for the link. That's a "traditional" forward breakfall, I've learned it well and can do it in my sleep.

My problem appears to be two fold.

I think my form is approaching optimal, but the mental hang up of my previous failure to land properly (and hurting my shoulder) is throwing me off.

Secondly, I dont understand how to land. With a normal breakfall you're supposed to roll all along the surface of your wrist/hand/shoulder/back. When I attempt a little hop before a normal breakfall my hand buckles and I end up slamming my shoulder into the ground. Bad.

I'll keep trying I guess.
posted by aeighty at 11:34 AM on May 26, 2006

I have a feeling fear of injury is your problem here. If you're afraid, you're going to try to bail out mid-air and screw yourself. I don't know the answer, but you need to get over the fear.
posted by knave at 11:47 AM on May 26, 2006

To follow what knave said, a huge key to this could be doing it repeatedly on a (very) soft mat, somewhere you won't hurt yourself. I'm thinking something like a high jump/pole vault mat, if you have access to one of those at all...
posted by inigo2 at 12:09 PM on May 26, 2006

We do this in Kapkido and I'm comfortable jumping and rolling over a 5' pole. But I wasn't always. At first, rolling was difficult. Then, in time, I could cover longer horizontal distances. It took awhile to deal with the vertical jump.

The only thing I suggest is to just be okay with where you're at. Everyone learns martial arts at their own pace. Just try to jump a pole very low to the ground and pretend it's not there. Then work your way up. Remeber, there is no pole.
posted by eperker at 12:19 PM on May 26, 2006

When I teach these in Judo I always start from a kneeling position, work our way up to rolling from a standing position, then rolling from a walk, then run. The key when going for height is not to aim up, but forward in order to assure you get over the obstacle in kind of a superman pose, then turn your body into a wheel and roll out of it. It takes practice getting your body used to being thrown through the air with confidence that you have the momentum to also flip in the air and remember to turn your body into a wheel. After years of practice practice practice you will be able to do it from muscle memory.

Not something I can really teach you all the finer points of without a demonstration though. A large exercise ball is useful for getting your body used to the rolling motion and learning to turn your body into a wheel.

Also, I would strongly advise you not place your palm on the ground. You'll break your wrist. What I teach is to roll along the pinkie edge of your hand, turning your hand, arm, shoulders, back and legs into a big wheel. Some of the comments above kind of suggest springing off your hands...if you do that...enjoy your vist to the ER.
posted by jduckles at 12:26 PM on May 26, 2006

Aikidoist here. The forward roll in Aikido can be a dangerous thing. I've seen people separate/break shoulders doing it, so be careful. That said, I double milarepa's suggestion to go to an Aikido class. Find an instructor or high-ranking student and ask for help with forward rolls. But don't force yourself - for some people, especially those with a "fear of flying", it takes longer than others. Good luck!
posted by ObscureReferenceMan at 12:31 PM on May 26, 2006

I would suggest going to a gym (the gymnastics kind, with trampolines and thick mats and all that good stuff) and signing up for a private lesson or two on how to do a dive roll. You'll be spot on in no time.
posted by anjamu at 1:28 PM on May 26, 2006

make sure you do a shoulder roll, not a forward roll. you want to curve your outward hand into a circular shape, with the thumb towards your chest. Then slide your hand towards your opposite ribcage and roll along the edge of that from your pinky, all the way down your body. If done properly it should be a very smooth transition from hand to wrist to elbow to shoulder to hip. with a little bit of practice, it becomes very, very easy to do a 1 meter dive into this kind of roll.

I actually wouldn't recommened gymnastics as they will likely teach you an actual forward roll, which is easier to injure yourself with when diving at the ground. You need to learn an aikido/judo/jujitsu shoulder roll instead.
posted by Burritos Inc. at 1:37 PM on May 26, 2006

Last night I did an exercise involving duct tape & rolls that was supposed to mentally disturb, but instead helped me "forget" nervousness about doing a roll. The tape was thrown to us and we were supposed to catch them while launching into a roll. So maybe you can think of a similar trick to distract you from the actual roll (and first trying it w/ static rolls). From watching those in my class who do these high rolls well, it seems to also work to reach/extend your body/leading arm over the pole, then let that horizontally pull you over. Of course, that makes it sound easy. The only thing that worked for me was constant repetition, usually on grass/compact dirt.
posted by artifarce at 2:02 PM on May 26, 2006

#1, if your martial arts class requires you do this, but doesn't teach you how - abandon it, and do something run by people who know what they're doing.

#2, forget about the bar, just learn to roll, even from your knees, or a low squat, just learn how to roll over slow, and gradually go faster.

You don't have to go straight forward, but should instead go over on one shoulder. Tuck your chin and curve your back out. If possible aim to do a full roll and end up on at least one foot at the end of the roll, this might make the rest of it flow more naturally than if you're aiming (sub-conciously) to finish the thing lying flat on your back.

If you haven't got nice mats to practice on, try doing it on grass. Or even on your bed (if you have a big one), but be very carefully not to break your bed.

Rolls are really easy, as long as you start slow and low, and build your way up. Whatever happens, as you increase pace/intensity, you should be going forward and rolling, not up and rolling.

If you've had a serious injury due to this exercise before, and you have a real concern (as opposed to just whining about it as a means of finding an excuse for not learning how to do a roll) then don't do it now. If your teacher can't make allowances for this, your teacher SUCKS.

Learning to roll over backwards might be helpful too. Just roll around on the floor a bit and get used to how your body moves like that. You'll be fine. But take it really easy.

(And let me say one more time, if your class doesn't teach you this, and can't accomodate your injury, dump it. Really. There are a lot of incredibly shitty martial arts classes out there.)
posted by The Monkey at 8:41 PM on May 26, 2006

Please allow me the indulgence of some (though not solely) repetition for emphasis:

1. A school that expects you to do this but doesn't teach you how may not be a place you want to attend. I know I wouldn't.

2. Fear of injury is normal, especially considering it happened before.

3. Stretch that shoulder out. You probably already are with the breakfalls you're doing, but just in case--it'll help prevent reinjury.

Now, assuming you have decent instruction/form for the standard forward roll/breakfall, doing it over a three foot bar is a piece of cake, really. Here's a few kinesthetic hints that helped me do this sort of thing:

It looks like you can roll from a standing position--good. Guess what? You're already most of the way there! Have someone stick their hand in front of you as you roll--notice that as you roll, you already can clear obstacles--you just fall over them! There's no jump needed, you just reach down in front of you, and there happens to be a hand/bar there. Depending on your height, you could be there already and not know it.

If you need a little more, please don't think about jumping high. You ever notice that in a standard roll, most of the energy seems to be spent getting your legs up and over? That's what you might have to do--just throw your legs up like you do for any other roll, except you're not bent over quite as much when you start.

It's really easy to try to catch yourself with the leading hand/arm, but you really need to almost collapse. I find it useful for this as an exercise to try your forward roll with as little forward motion (or any motion, really) as necessary. Just stand, lean over forward, reeeach out the arm correctly...slowly tip over, and...just bonelessly collapse into the roll. Don't focus on keeping the arm curved, just try to use as little motion as possible, so it feels like you're collapsing almost instead of rolling.

If you have to jump a bit, that's how you want to land. No, you don't technically want to simply crumple on impact--but you want that feeling of smoothness that feels like you're just going with the flow of gravity--just reach over the bar, flip the legs up and over to start the roll, and smoothly flow with gravity. :)
posted by RikiTikiTavi at 12:21 AM on May 27, 2006

Find a good judo instructor. They can teach you to do this. Young kids learn to do this from the very beginning—so it's something that can be very easily learned, and you'll work up to higher and higher barriers quickly.

And if you have the correct cushy mats to land on when practicing, your fear of landing wrong will quickly dissipate.
posted by limeonaire at 11:11 PM on May 27, 2006

(My brother and I both did judo growing up, and now my brother, a high school student, is at the point where he can do rolls like this on a bare stage. You'll get there!)
posted by limeonaire at 11:14 PM on May 27, 2006