What's wrong with saying that I'd never say never?

May 18, 2006 7:23 PM

My girlfriend asked me if I'd ever have sex with a man. I replied by saying that I'd never say never. Does this make me less of a heterosexual?

I admit I'm curious but probably have no desire to fulfil my curiosity. Should I convince her more that I'm not willing to go to such extremes? She seems a bit worried. I really don't care that much and quite often act gay just to tease her about it. What would you do if you were me? We seem to still be getting on alright.

posted by sjvilla79 to human relations (45 comments total)

Well, if it seems to bother her, you might want to cut out the acting gay part. You might also try finding out why it bothers her rather than teasing her about it. She may be afraid that what she offers cannot hold a candle to teh mansex, or something equally irrational. Since you have no real interest in finding out whether it does or not, why not reassure her?
posted by kindall at 7:29 PM on May 18, 2006

Should she be worried? No. But the answer to your question? Yes.

Also, it's probably not the best subject to "tease" her about. Be sensitive (in a heterosexual way).
posted by cribcage at 7:33 PM on May 18, 2006

Better to find out now what her true feelings are about you before things get more serious. Does that mean asking for a threesome with another guy? Maybe, maybe not. But if she doesn't respect you now because of insecurities she might have in the bedroom, she probably won't ever respect you outside the bedroom, and no amount of being artificially "butch" will change that.
posted by Mr. Six at 7:41 PM on May 18, 2006

Seriously...stop acting gay. It's one thing to be slightly effiminite. It's another altogether to purposefully confuse people about your sexuality. I understand first hand what your g/f is going through because I used to do this all the time. Many women, despite their protests, often like men to act like men. And when they don't, they feel less like women and begin to wonder if you (the man) are bisexual at best and gay at worst, which is a big damper on the relationship.

If you have any willing gay friends, and you're really that curious, engage in some physical flirting (with the g/f's approval). You'll know pretty quick (I'd imagine; I've never actually tried this).

But seriously, stop acting gay.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 7:45 PM on May 18, 2006

If you "seem to be getting on alright" I wouldn't think too much about it. Any number of things will bother the either party in a relationship at any given time, without becoming at detriment to the stability of the relationship. That's part of being in a healthy relationship: the ability to look past the irrational things that pry on one's mind.

It sounds as though she feels some discomfort about your willingness *hypothetically* to *entertain* the *possibility* that you *might* be able to *imagine yourself* in a homosexual encounter or relationship. In my experience, she's probably more concerned with her own ability to satisfy you completely.

I was in a similar situation, but from her side. An ex-girlfriend once remarked to me that she certainly hadn't closed her mind on the possibility of having a sexual encounter with another female. What bothered me was not that she was considering having sex with a girl, but that she was considering having sex with anyone but me. I think everyone feels insecure when their partner suggests that there are other horizons unexplored, however hypothetically.

What should you do? Probably nothing. Just continue to be in the relationship, and be the best partner you can be. If it works out in the long run, she'll have gotten over her insecurities, and you'll have gotten over a number of your own. Maybe stop teasing her, though, unless it's clear that she takes it 100% in good humor.
posted by scarylarry at 7:53 PM on May 18, 2006

But if you're really curious, such that your life will be incomplete unless you have sex with another man, you should tell her. Yes, if you do have sex with a man that makes you somewhat "less of a heterosexual"--but wouldn't you rather be happy than curious all your life? If you think you might be gay or bi, and if bi you think that you'll need to have a sexual encounter with a man before you'll be able to commit to a long-term relationship with either sex, you should tell her.

If, as I read it originally, this is mostly a response to an insecurity of hers, you should be honest with her and continue to be a good boyfriend. It'll blow over.
posted by scarylarry at 7:59 PM on May 18, 2006

I uh, yeah, if you're this worried about it, you shouldn't be.

Some guys are pretty cute. Ewan Macgregor is a good example. I can say this with a straight face. However, the buttsex does not appeal to me.

Relax.
posted by blacklite at 8:26 PM on May 18, 2006

I really don't care that much and quite often act gay just to tease her about it.

Yeah, well, you care enough to post a question here, so I'd say that your 'acting gay to tease her about it' is more about your own insecurity than anything else, and your girlfriend can probably tell.
posted by bingo at 8:27 PM on May 18, 2006

bingo has a point.
posted by scarylarry at 8:38 PM on May 18, 2006

How exactly are you "acting gay"? Are you picking out lavender drapes, collecting Barbies, or simulating fellatio? There's a whole continuum of stereotypical behaviours. What do you think a lesser heterosexuality actually means? Could it be that you are merely engaging in attention-seeking behaviour for the purpose of egoism, or to compensate for a reduced sense of worth within the relationship? Why do want her to feel edgy?

On a side note I was recently slagged for "being a poof" in a mixed group down the pub for saying tnhat I like watching pretty much anything with Johnny Depp in it, no matter how bad it is, because watching him move through a movie is like watching pretty flowers sway gently in the wind. It doesn't really mean anything, but it is pleasant. Did I say it to tease anyone? Not really. I just really do like flowers, and Johnny Depp. Could it be construed as effeminate? Apparently so. Does it have any meaingful relation to a desire to be intimate (or not) with males? Not really.
posted by meehawl at 8:43 PM on May 18, 2006

On the other hand, if this is just your sense of humor and she doesn't dig it, you're ultimately going nowhere. Bingo does indeed have a point, but if this really is just you joking around and her freaking out about it, I'd lay good money on the fact that you won't end up together forever.

I remember reading an article in a former girlfriend's magazine about sex horror stories. The one I read aloud to her involved a couple having forceful sex on a hardwood floor. They started scooting forward with each thrust, and he got excited and started making "vroom vroom" car noises and driving her around the house.

I laughed until my face hurt. She looked horrified and told me she'd kill me if I even thought about trying it. At that moment I knew it was over.

Contrast that with my wife -- when we were dating, I once farted during sex, and it was easily one of the five most rancid farts of my life. She responded by laughing until she turned red. Looking back, it was at that moment that I knew we'd marry.

But then again, the very fact that you ask whether something makes you "less of a heterosexual" makes me have serious doubts about your own comfort level with your sexuality. Bottom line? Thinking a dude is hot doesn't make you less of a man. I'd damn near fuck my wife's hairdresser, and I view every prostate exam with utter dread.
posted by middleclasstool at 8:55 PM on May 18, 2006 [2 favorites has favorites]

Since heterosexuality is defined as having sex only with women, yeah it does. But so what? I don't think you're not being honest with her. You're kind of curious, never see yourself doing it, and that's that. Just be totally honest with her.
posted by xammerboy at 8:57 PM on May 18, 2006

I went out with a woman who asked me questions like this, and the reason was -- and there is not enough "well duh" in the world -- because a former boyfriend of hers was a closeted, in-denial gay man and she found out and obviously, it was horrible for everyone concerned.

So if you assume that is, or even might be, the reason why, then the whole "acting gay" thing is pretty insensitive.

Does it make you less of a heterosexual ... than what?

I think Gore Vidal once said "only ten per cent of people are gay ... and only ten per cent of people are straight".

So yes, if this is the map:

STRAIGHT<----------------------------------------------------->GAY

You're asking are you here:

STRAIGHT<------|----------------------------------------------->GAY

as opposed to here?

STRAIGHT<--------|--------------------------------------------->GAY

In the words of another great intellectual of our times, Robbie Williams ... "Yeah, probably".
posted by AmbroseChapel at 8:57 PM on May 18, 2006

Does this make me less of a heterosexual?

Not unless you want to have sex with a man. Wanting to have sex with a man is a reasonably good sign of, if not homosexuality per se, a less cagey answer to your g/f's question regarding your willingness to, well, have sex with a man. What I'm trying to say here, sjvilla, unless you're playing around here, is that if you're concerned about this issue, you need to honestly explore it. Look into your sexuality: I hear there are places on the internet where you can watch men having sex with one another. Visit one, watch men being intimate with other men, and I imagine that the question will resolve itself rather quickly (nb: wanting to have sex with a man does not make you gay. I am one of those people who believes firmly in the existence of bisexuals--and to round out the point, that those bisexuals are very capable of sexual monogomy with either gender.)

If you already know that you don't want to have sex with a man, and if you told your g/f this, it shouldn't matter if you "act gay" (whatever that means), because you're not. If she can't handle your professed open mind, it's her burden to bear. But I wouldn't ever be anything but honest about sex things, with yourself and with your significant others.
posted by kosem at 9:07 PM on May 18, 2006

Just keep in mind that you told her you'd never say you'll never cheat on her . . .
posted by JekPorkins at 9:16 PM on May 18, 2006

Does this make me less of a heterosexual?

Um, yeah.

She seems a bit worried. I really don't care that much and quite often act gay just to tease her about it.

Well, if you're not going to cheat on her, you're not going to cheat on her, right? Tell her to stop worrying.
posted by delmoi at 9:21 PM on May 18, 2006

I dunno, I'd say that not ruling out having sex with another man does make you a little less heterosexual. But I don't think that's perjorative. If you think you might like the mansex, by all means go for it.
posted by Justinian at 9:25 PM on May 18, 2006

Well, if you're not going to cheat on her, you're not going to cheat on her, right? Tell her to stop worrying.

Delmoi, I think you hit the nail on the head there. She asked him if he would have sex with someone other than her, and his answer was "never say never." If he didn't really mean that he couldn't rule out the possibility of cheating on her, he should probably tell her as much. I mean, as it stands now, she could have basically interpreted the conversation as:

Q: "Would you ever cheat on me?"
A: "Maybe, but only if it was with a dude."
posted by JekPorkins at 9:33 PM on May 18, 2006

I've posed this question to every one of my boyfriends. About half have responded with the "never say never" sort of answer. I've always taken this to mean we can have entertaining speculation about both kinds of threesomes rather than as some kind of threat to our relationship.

Of course, your girlfriend sounds like she's coming from a different place than me. I think you might benefit from clarifying your position respecting sex with a man. Let her know that you don't mind if you never have the chance to pursue that particular curiosity, and that your commitment to your relationship takes precedence over pursuing curiosities that she isn't interested in or comfortable with (assuming that's true).
posted by carmen at 9:53 PM on May 18, 2006

She seems a bit worried.

Some ladies are REALLY sensitive to this. I dated one recently who asked me the same question on the 3rd or 4th date and when I gave her the same answer as you, she immediately freaked out, accused me of being a closeted gay man, and that was the end of our little courtship.

When she'd calmed down, she told me that she wasted a couple of years chasing this guy she liked who turned out to be gay and in denial. I can understand how that would leave a scar. Still, I was a little offended that she made a general conclusion about all people based on one experience. I can forgive it, but I certainly cannot agree.

I happen to be one marvelous heterosexual. My experiences tell me I'd make a poor homosexual, and a very mediocre bisexual. Yet I refuse to be narrowed into a corner for the sake of someone else's insecurities.

A lot of our sexual identity is more about identity than it is about sex. I'll never let anyone tell me what kind of man I can and can't be. If I admit I think Jude Law is hot and that scares her, what will she think when I see one of my guy friends for the first time in months and hug him, or even kiss him on the cheek? If that simple sign of affection, or worse, the affection itself somehow threatens her, she's got problems I can't work around.

I can respect it if people want 100% heterosexuality with no room for interpretation, but at the same time I pity them. This girl I speak of: she really liked me, and we had a very very hot sexual connection. If she'd told me that she had scars and needed extra assurance on that one point, I could understand that.

But that's not what she said. She said: women are "allowed" to kiss each other and such, and lesbianism is considered more and more acceptable. However, the same is not true of man-on-man. Men are, in fact, under such pressure not to deviate from their hetero role in the slightest, that if and when a man does (even in the slightest) it can ONLY be a sign of latent, 100% homosexuality. There are no degrees with men. Many gay men will live in the closet forever. Many more will live as 99% hetero (a lie, of course). But no truly straight man would ever risk showing 1% gay tendencies. The only straight men are the 100% rigid, homophobic ones. And that's where the pity comes in. She's going to home in on a bunch of lug-headed morons and skip over a lot of great guys, starting with #1.

Frankly, she's wrong about the degrees, and I happen to know it. Whether there is any kind of gay or bisexual man inside me, I have demonstrated for over 25 years that there is one hell of a heterosexual man here.

And if there is complexity about me, that doesn't mean I have any problem being monogamous, either. I always have been religiously monogamous, and not with any parituclar great strain. That's the way I like being, the only way I know how to be, the only way I would dare to be.

Hope this helps.
posted by scarabic at 10:10 PM on May 18, 2006 [2 favorites has favorites]

It does not make you gay. On good day, being charitable, with the wind blowing in the right direction, it might make you bicurious.

I have known multiple straight men who looked at Orlando Bloom in LOTR and said "Wow, I could have sex with that man." But when I pointed out what's actually involved in homosexual sex (semen, anuses, santorum, etc.) they immediately felt ill. That isn't gay. That's not even bicurious. That's just being comfortable with the truth that the man is damn pretty and unafraid to admit it.

If you can actually fantasize about having sex with another man, then you might be getting into bicurious territory.
posted by Ryvar at 10:51 PM on May 18, 2006

But when I pointed out what's actually involved in homosexual sex (semen, anuses, santorum, etc.) they immediately felt ill. That isn't gay.

For what it's worth, some gay men turn pale at the idea of anal sex too. A gay couple of my acquaintance ("some of my best friends," etc) were together for four years and never did that particular deed. So I don't think a love of santorum is the defining factor in determining gayness.

Aside from that, I think JexPorkins said it best. And perhaps the conversation led her to imagine you wth someone else - male of otherwise - and it disappointed her a little. Even when a relationship isn't a committed marriage, we often entertain the polite fiction that there will never be anyone else ever. It sounds like your "never say never" broke the covenant.
posted by hot soup girl at 11:18 PM on May 18, 2006

I feel like I need to say this 'cause of a couple comments: gay sex doesn't equal butt sex. Plenty of gay men don't do it and plenty of hets do. "Semen, anuses, [and] santorum" are factors in heterosexual butt-based encounters, too. Just saying.

Also, I think there's a serious problem in our world when a heterosexual guy can't even think about the mechanics of gay sex without falling ill.
posted by drewbeck at 11:21 PM on May 18, 2006

A more serious problem than when a heterosexual guy feels ill about thinking aobut the mechanics of sex with a really old/ugly/whatever woman? Neither strikes me as particularly problematic.
posted by Justinian at 11:27 PM on May 18, 2006

Q: "Would you ever cheat on me?"
A: "Maybe, but only if it was with a dude."

Maybe, but it's a thoroughly silly interpretation. One can imagine any number of situations of duress where doing something one would never freely choose to do would be preferable to the alternative ("gay sex or we kill you" or, if it comforts his gf any, "gay sex or we kill your girl").
posted by juv3nal at 11:37 PM on May 18, 2006

One can imagine any number of situations of duress where doing something one would never freely choose to do would be preferable to the alternative

Yeah, I didn't really read the FPP's curiosity as being based on the vague possibility of future gay rape. "I admit I'm curious" isn't quite the same as "I admit that someday I might be forced against my will to have gay sex, so I'm reserving the right."

drewbeck: Also, I think there's a serious problem in our world when a heterosexual guy can't even think about the mechanics of gay sex without falling ill.

So tolerance isn't enough and you expect people to stop being turned off by stuff that turns them off? Surely there's some sexual conduct that makes your stomach turn. Surely you don't think that the world has problems until everyone learns not to be sickened by anything that turns someone else on. I mean, I nearly vomited when I saw the pee sno-cone scene in the Jackass movie -- are you suggesting that there's something wrong or bad about me because that grossed me out, since someone somewhere was probably turned on by it? Sorry, that's probably a bit chatty for AskMe, but come on now.
posted by JekPorkins at 11:48 PM on May 18, 2006

Yeah, I didn't really read the FPP's curiosity as being based on the vague possibility of future gay rape. "I admit I'm curious" isn't quite the same as "I admit that someday I might be forced against my will to have gay sex, so I'm reserving the right."

He admits in the questionhis curiosity, but all he says that he told his girlfriend is "never say never"...are you reading a different question?
posted by juv3nal at 11:51 PM on May 18, 2006

I think that's an extremely dubious reading of the question, juv3nal. If someone asks me if I'd ever eat a handful of maggots, I don't think a reasonable answer would be that someone might force them down my throat one day.
posted by Justinian at 11:57 PM on May 18, 2006

eek, do not read gay sex = handful of maggots. k thx, bye
posted by Justinian at 11:57 PM on May 18, 2006 [1 favorite has favorites]

Dude, in the future remember the "right" answer to that question is the same as the one for "Does this dress make me look fat?". She obviously didn't want an honest answer (see tarof in the above thread).

At this point, however, you might want to tell her you don't dismiss any possibilities in life, although the odds of you engaging in those activities is slim to none e.g. you have no intention of ever hurting anyone, but there are some extreme situations in which you can see yourself committing homicide. I didn't mean to compare homosexuality with homicide; it was just the first example that popped in my head. Maybe visiting Romania would have been a better example.

I'm a heterosexual male who's never had a gay experience, but like scarabic, I can admit when another man is good looking. What cracks me up is when some guys are asked if another man is attractive, and say "I don't know. I'm not a woman...or gay!", as if a hetero man is incapable of determining whether another man is handsome. My response to those guys is usually: "So because you're not a cat or dog you're incapable of finding a kitten or puppy cute too, right?"
posted by Devils Slide at 12:01 AM on May 19, 2006

JekPorkins: I think you are completly missing the point. If a girl asked me "Would you ever have sex with an Asian" I would say yes, even if she wasn't Asian. Saying I would have sex with an Asian woman in theory is not at all the same thing as saying you would have sex with an Asian woman while I'm dating you.

I think a "If we wern't together" is implied in the question.
posted by delmoi at 12:13 AM on May 19, 2006

I think a "If we wern't together" is implied in the question.

Maybe. But you're not the one who asked the question, and judging by the GF's reaction to the answer, I have to wonder.
posted by JekPorkins at 12:18 AM on May 19, 2006

Some of the most heterosexual people on this planet are really, really gay.
posted by slimepuppy at 2:42 AM on May 19, 2006

Being less of a heterosexual likely makes you more of a lover.
posted by Goofyy at 4:32 AM on May 19, 2006

It's the cutesy-poo teasing aspect here that would piss me off, if I were the girlfriend asking the question. "Never say never" coupled with the "acting gay" (not even going there) is basically saying, "I'm not going to give you a direct answer, and I'm going to taunt you with the possibility that I do want to run right off and have some mansex today, making my indirect answer even more vague."

The answer to "Would you ever have sex with a guy?" is not "Never say never!" It's also not a doesthismakemelookfat moment. The answer to "Would you ever have sex with a guy?" is (from your comments here,) "I don't know, it depends. Actually getting intimate with another man doesn't really appeal to me, but sure, I've considered the possibility."

If she has a problem with *that* answer, then that's the problem and you can deal with it. Currently, however, she's twitched out because you're being coy and playing on her fears. She asked the question for a reason; be decent and give her an answer.
posted by headspace at 5:38 AM on May 19, 2006

It's either about her insecurities, or you are giving her specific reasons to be insecure.

Perhaps, as in scarabic's example, she is one of the numerous ladies who have pined for a gay man -- or the far worse heartstomper, loved a man who didn't know he was gay. It's not an experience one cares to repeat.

Perhaps, however, it's just you, and the way you failed to receive the memo that repeatedly "acting gay" when you are straight almost always means one of two things -- you are a big damn homophobe or live in a big damn closet (or as is so sadly often the case, both). There is little more discomfiting than when a proclaimed straight man does the exaggerated swish routine to be hilarious. Hasn't everyone known that one dude? That one dude who talks constantly, leeringly about butt sex and hairy butts and Seymore Butts and omg how can guys do it in the butt, all limp-wristed and lispy for comic effect, while everyone fidgets, knowing all he wants in this world is some gay sex, poor thing, but hasn't any idea what that really means or dares to find out? I was good friends with the wife of that one dude. She's now married to someone else while he lives in San Francisco with his boyfriend and is much, much more relaxed.

If you are being that one dude with your girlfriend (of all people), even purely as a joke, give the girl a break. It might be a little bit from Column A and a little bit from Column B, but either way, she's not finding it funny. If you really like her, give it a rest. Don't go the other direction, though, a start composing long odes to her hoo-ha and how it has eradicated the thought of all other hoo-has, female or not, from your mind for all eternity. Either way, you are protesting too much.
posted by melissa may at 5:40 AM on May 19, 2006

Currently, however, she's twitched out because you're being coy and playing on her fears.

Yeah, this is the main point here. I agree with Devils Slide that it wasn't a good idea to treat this question as a serious inquest into life and possibility that deserved your deepest, most painful, self-searching honesty, but since you answered it that way, quit being a dick about it.

Or, what melissa may said.
posted by languagehat at 6:01 AM on May 19, 2006

There are less-than-appetizing-sounding bodily fluid aspects to straight sex too. Most women don't get moist at the thought of a guy and immediately leap to romantizing the wet spot. (And that's not even getting into the buttsex != gaysex.)
posted by desuetude at 6:27 AM on May 19, 2006

Most women don't get moist at the thought of a guy and immediately leap to romantizing the wet spot.

I can vouch for this.
posted by Wet Spot at 6:50 AM on May 19, 2006 [1 favorite has favorites]

The latency exhibited in this thread is pathetic.
You bi-curious jocks should just stop fretting about society's expectations and suck your buddies' cocks. After dropping out of the het dating pool, everyone (except your parents) will be so much happier!

Wondering exactly where on AmbroseChapel's spectrum the AxMe hive-mind believes sex goes from thought to action.
posted by Rash at 9:21 AM on May 19, 2006

Define "heterosexual."

Seriously, there are multiple definitions floating out there, and depending on which theory you subscribe to, and which definition you choose, you can call yourself completely straight, or queer as two dollar bill.

My personal opinion is that I don't consider rare "sport-sex" or experimentation to be all that big of a deal. There are cultures out there where same-sex experimentation is just one of those stupid things that immature people do. There are cultures where it's only the "bottom" that is identified as "gay."

To me, when I hear "never say never" it only means that they want to appear open-minded. If a cosmic alignment of circumstance, opportunity, and sexual desperation comes along they might, possibly, be willing to let someone give them a handjob or oral sex. Perhaps they will experiment under the influence of chemical substances or during a threesome so they have a nice easy excuse.

But I have a chip on my shoulder based on experience about "bicurious" and "bisensual" people. About half of them come out as gay or bisexual, and the other half are heterosexuals who want to appear trendy, progressive, and open minded without being willing to assume any real risks.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 10:13 AM on May 19, 2006

If you are teasing your girlfriend about being gay, I don't know that it makes you gay. It certainly make you an insensitive jerk.

I know I've had boyfriends tell me they think they might be gay, and I have never quite seen them in the same light. Its something about feeling that I might just not be the one (and potentially could never be the one (not being a guy)) and a worry that this leads to a general attitude that may be a passport for cheating and consequently a really high risk behavior and this has put me off them.

On preview, teasing your girlfriend about this (IMHO) is a really good way to destroy the trust in your relationship.
posted by zia at 10:36 AM on May 19, 2006

Does it make you less of a heterosexual? Yes. But the question is only relevant in terms of how your sexuality influences your behaviour. Chances are that after this revelation you're no more likely to screw up your relationship to go out and have sex with a guy than you were before.

Should you convince her that you're not willing to go to such extremes? Yes! Forget the issues of sexuality, she should always know through your words and actions that you'd never be with anyone else, male or female (if that's the truth!).

What would I do if I were you? I'd stop acting gay for a start. If it's making her worried, is that really worth it for a 'joke' that only you find funny? Middleclasstool seems to think that you must both find every joke equally as funny to make it as a couple. I disagree. Unless acting gay for laughs is particularly important to you, stop doing it for the sake of the woman you care about.

I'd also revisit the conversation to clarify things. Reassure her that when it comes to being faithful to her and being satisfied by her alone, you are, and gender has nothing to do with it. Find out why she asked the question -- maybe there's something that prompted it that you need to talk through, or she would benefit from reassurance for what's on her mind. Ask her the same question she asked you, so she can see first hand that it is possible to answer hypothetically.

Since you say that you're fine with your sexuality and not bothered, the issue is how to allay her concerns. First take them seriously and don't make jokes that make her more concerned, and second discuss her concerns and work towards ways to reassure her.
posted by teem at 10:46 AM on May 19, 2006 [1 favorite has favorites]

Maybe she's worried because she's not sure if she can ask you for the threesome she's been dreaming of. That would, of course, be the other reason a girlfriend would ask if you were into guys at all.
posted by Margalo Epps at 4:50 PM on May 20, 2006

There's some really awesome answers here. I appreciate all the feedback thus far. Thanks. Thanks heaps.
posted by sjvilla79 at 9:13 PM on May 21, 2006