Basic "arpeggio" use on Yamaha keyboard
January 9, 2025 9:34 AM
On my Yamaha MOXF8, I can select one of their 7000+ patterns ("arpeggios"), then specify a chord, then the keyboard plays a pattern in that chord/key automatically. I do not have the kind of encyclopedic pop music knowledge that all existing help seems to assume.
To succeed, I need: 1) exact button press sequences an expert would use to have fun this way (I can do it in a basic way), and 2) how to choose awesome arpeggios from the 7000+ provided by Yamaha. I seek examples: video, articles, whatever. (I don't need chord progressions or cadences)
Hi musicians. "Arpeggio" in the Yamaha keyboard context isn't the same as "arpeggio" in music theory.
There are articles and videos on making custom arpeggios. I cannot find the more basic material I need - using the existing arpeggios in a fun and performable/explorable way.
This is about using the existing pre-programmed arpeggios (there are over 7000), not about making custom arpeggios.
- I've tried looking at reviews and at videos and articles made by Yamaha. They are not thinking of me as their audience.
- Even one specific, detailed performance example using a few awesome arpeggios would help.
- The Yamaha MOXF6 is essentially identical and would be a great example.
- I know that the Yamaha Motif keyboards are similar. I've tried searching without being picky about keyboard model, but still am not finding what I need.
- I am not sure info about the PSR series of keyboards would be helpful enough.
- I found material about the internal software structure of the arpeggiator. Interesting, but not the goal.
- I'm willing to work with a tutor if necessary, but haven't found one.
- The keyboard is not their newest.
- I have very limited knowledge of pop music. Ask me about art song sometime.
- I have studied a little music theory - I don't need that. Just fun/exciting actual arpeggio patterns.
- I have and have downloaded (and put into a spreadsheet) the arpeggio types in the Yamaha Data List document. I also have read the user guide.
- I am aware that Yamaha "Performances" let me layer and subdivide the keyboard. Not relevant here; I'm into it, but after I learn what arpeggios are fun/awesome or some efficient way to explore them.
Right now I want to be able to play very fun, but not overwhelming, chord progressions so I can get comfortable with the system and start improvising.
Ideally, I'd love to see details of someone using the existing arpeggios. This could be a video or description of a button-by-button process they used, or even a plan/list/score of which arpeggios are deployed at which time with which keys pressed in what order. Also: I'd love descriptions of the general groupings/styles of the existing 7000+ arpeggios (I have the complete data list of them already, but the names given aren't descriptive).
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They seem aimed at people with a lot more keyboard experience and/or encyclopedic pop music knowledge. I'm essentially an alien who spent 8 years in medieval Norway or something -- I know who the Beatles are, but not which words like "Funk" or "Groovy" would apply to them vs. Björk.
Don't teach me the general meaning of funk or groovy - I get that and can easily look it up, to the extent that those words even have definitions. However, if I want something that includes a stepwise melody with audio "whitespace" I'd like some way to guess what that might be.
Hi musicians. "Arpeggio" in the Yamaha keyboard context isn't the same as "arpeggio" in music theory.
There are articles and videos on making custom arpeggios. I cannot find the more basic material I need - using the existing arpeggios in a fun and performable/explorable way.
This is about using the existing pre-programmed arpeggios (there are over 7000), not about making custom arpeggios.
- I've tried looking at reviews and at videos and articles made by Yamaha. They are not thinking of me as their audience.
- Even one specific, detailed performance example using a few awesome arpeggios would help.
- The Yamaha MOXF6 is essentially identical and would be a great example.
- I know that the Yamaha Motif keyboards are similar. I've tried searching without being picky about keyboard model, but still am not finding what I need.
- I am not sure info about the PSR series of keyboards would be helpful enough.
- I found material about the internal software structure of the arpeggiator. Interesting, but not the goal.
- I'm willing to work with a tutor if necessary, but haven't found one.
- The keyboard is not their newest.
- I have very limited knowledge of pop music. Ask me about art song sometime.
- I have studied a little music theory - I don't need that. Just fun/exciting actual arpeggio patterns.
- I have and have downloaded (and put into a spreadsheet) the arpeggio types in the Yamaha Data List document. I also have read the user guide.
- I am aware that Yamaha "Performances" let me layer and subdivide the keyboard. Not relevant here; I'm into it, but after I learn what arpeggios are fun/awesome or some efficient way to explore them.
Right now I want to be able to play very fun, but not overwhelming, chord progressions so I can get comfortable with the system and start improvising.
Ideally, I'd love to see details of someone using the existing arpeggios. This could be a video or description of a button-by-button process they used, or even a plan/list/score of which arpeggios are deployed at which time with which keys pressed in what order. Also: I'd love descriptions of the general groupings/styles of the existing 7000+ arpeggios (I have the complete data list of them already, but the names given aren't descriptive).
------------
They seem aimed at people with a lot more keyboard experience and/or encyclopedic pop music knowledge. I'm essentially an alien who spent 8 years in medieval Norway or something -- I know who the Beatles are, but not which words like "Funk" or "Groovy" would apply to them vs. Björk.
Don't teach me the general meaning of funk or groovy - I get that and can easily look it up, to the extent that those words even have definitions. However, if I want something that includes a stepwise melody with audio "whitespace" I'd like some way to guess what that might be.
Loop was RIGHT THERE. I wonder why they repurposed an actual musical term. With that out of the way, I think what constitutes an "awesome arpeggio" will be subjective, and the idea behind them is what the guy in the video linked above mentions. Use them for inspiration. Poke around. Find combinations YOU like. You could end up writing a hit single using basically "demo mode" on your keyboard, like Gorillaz did.
posted by emelenjr at 11:38 AM on January 9
posted by emelenjr at 11:38 AM on January 9
Emelenjr has a good point. Have you tried searching for "how to use loops on a Yamaha keyboard"? That might get you more results.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 12:01 PM on January 9
posted by Winnie the Proust at 12:01 PM on January 9
It seems like what you want is information on how to make "fun", "awesome", and "exciting" arpeggio sequences (zeroing in on your words about what you're looking for).
Because those are all extremely subjective concepts, you may be best served by just a lot of trial and error, and making copious notes on what processes you discover that generate the kinds of sounds you like. That's often how I approach new technology, musical and otherwise.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 1:19 PM on January 9
Because those are all extremely subjective concepts, you may be best served by just a lot of trial and error, and making copious notes on what processes you discover that generate the kinds of sounds you like. That's often how I approach new technology, musical and otherwise.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 1:19 PM on January 9
Sorry, what I mean is the following:
Yamaha provides a list of arpeggios in their Data List document that looks like this (see p. 48-97).
How do I choose one?
- Many are for drum voices
- Many are not a style that works for anything I'm trying
- The first couple I tried just played the same note over and over -- that's probably intended for a drum voice.
- I've tried "just try some" and it's not fun
Then, what's the fastest/easiest way to turn the arpeggios into a fun experience with the specific buttons/UI/arrangement of controls/software on that specific keyboard?
posted by amtho at 3:12 PM on January 9
Yamaha provides a list of arpeggios in their Data List document that looks like this (see p. 48-97).
How do I choose one?
- Many are for drum voices
- Many are not a style that works for anything I'm trying
- The first couple I tried just played the same note over and over -- that's probably intended for a drum voice.
- I've tried "just try some" and it's not fun
Then, what's the fastest/easiest way to turn the arpeggios into a fun experience with the specific buttons/UI/arrangement of controls/software on that specific keyboard?
posted by amtho at 3:12 PM on January 9
OK, in the PDF you linked, I can see that the "arpeggios," as Yamaha calls them, are grouped by style of music, by time signature (for 4/4 count "1 2 3 4" and for 3/4 count "1 2 3" like a waltz), by length (I'd have to listen to a few to see what they mean, but maybe the ones with length 2 are twice as long, with more going on in them) and the original tempo (how many beats per minute) the arpeggio was played at when it was recorded.) The final column is the kind of instrument you'll hear played.
You're the producer here. Put a band together that plays a... rock song. Pick a keyboard from the Rock section. Pick a guitar from the rock section. Pick a bass guitar from the rock section. Pick drums from the rock section. Does that help?
posted by emelenjr at 6:50 PM on January 9
You're the producer here. Put a band together that plays a... rock song. Pick a keyboard from the Rock section. Pick a guitar from the rock section. Pick a bass guitar from the rock section. Pick drums from the rock section. Does that help?
posted by emelenjr at 6:50 PM on January 9
Kind of, except that I don't really know "rock" or how to put together a band.
Plus, aren't there umpteen different kinds of "rock"?
What I hear is that I need to figure out the name of a thing I'd want to imitate.
--
There's another construct of this platform called a "performance", which can contain multiple "voices" and maybe "arpeggios" - I'm going to see if that's closer to what I want, although figuring out the arpeggio thing will be part of that.
--
* If there's a resource that analyzes different band compositions for different styles of music, I'd love that. I've enjoyed some Afropop, some ambient, sea chanteys, emotional ballads, jazz standards, medieval/pentatonic/minimalist music with drones or figured bass lines, orchestral string sections that aren't too obnoxious, sixties harmony groups... unfortunately my brain doesn't easily pick apart the instrumental makeup of those things, but I can probably figure it out.
I definitely want to _start_ with something quieter - both for my own sanity and my neighbors' - and not too fast. "rich" layering - maybe the gentlest 80's synth something (but what goes with that? Cello?), slow for pop but not funereal. Not too high in pitch, but not loud heavy bass.
All that sounds very negative; I would like: fun, any tempo is actually fine, but I think what I really want is to start with something very complex - the most complex but non-angry/loud/bass-heavy things (but not high guitar or flute or oboe...).
You'd ask: what existing songs or bands do you like? Unfortunately... I'm not really wired that way. I just thought of a 90s movie theme song I like, though. It's by Elton John, and I guess I don't mind most Elton John music, so I could start deconstructing there I suppose.
Now I need to look up if I can hook up a pedal to control the tempo - varying the tempo while playing seems like it would be really helpful.
Thanks for engaging with this. I'm coming at this from a very different place than most players, maybe, or maybe I'm just uneducated. The manuals and user interface for this machine are notoriously opaque also.
---
I'm not someone who copies existing stuff, but I was thinking that one or two very specific videos of someone making something moderately fun with this specific machine would be easy to find.
posted by amtho at 9:02 AM on January 10
Plus, aren't there umpteen different kinds of "rock"?
What I hear is that I need to figure out the name of a thing I'd want to imitate.
--
There's another construct of this platform called a "performance", which can contain multiple "voices" and maybe "arpeggios" - I'm going to see if that's closer to what I want, although figuring out the arpeggio thing will be part of that.
--
* If there's a resource that analyzes different band compositions for different styles of music, I'd love that. I've enjoyed some Afropop, some ambient, sea chanteys, emotional ballads, jazz standards, medieval/pentatonic/minimalist music with drones or figured bass lines, orchestral string sections that aren't too obnoxious, sixties harmony groups... unfortunately my brain doesn't easily pick apart the instrumental makeup of those things, but I can probably figure it out.
I definitely want to _start_ with something quieter - both for my own sanity and my neighbors' - and not too fast. "rich" layering - maybe the gentlest 80's synth something (but what goes with that? Cello?), slow for pop but not funereal. Not too high in pitch, but not loud heavy bass.
All that sounds very negative; I would like: fun, any tempo is actually fine, but I think what I really want is to start with something very complex - the most complex but non-angry/loud/bass-heavy things (but not high guitar or flute or oboe...).
You'd ask: what existing songs or bands do you like? Unfortunately... I'm not really wired that way. I just thought of a 90s movie theme song I like, though. It's by Elton John, and I guess I don't mind most Elton John music, so I could start deconstructing there I suppose.
Now I need to look up if I can hook up a pedal to control the tempo - varying the tempo while playing seems like it would be really helpful.
Thanks for engaging with this. I'm coming at this from a very different place than most players, maybe, or maybe I'm just uneducated. The manuals and user interface for this machine are notoriously opaque also.
---
I'm not someone who copies existing stuff, but I was thinking that one or two very specific videos of someone making something moderately fun with this specific machine would be easy to find.
posted by amtho at 9:02 AM on January 10
Can you say a little more about what you hope to be able to do? E.g. is your goal to have it play accompaniment while you play freely over it? Do you want to program a series of instructions so that you hit "play" and the keyboard performs your piece? Or do you want to be noodling by holding different single keys to have it play the arp rooted at the key you press? You can do all that and more, like have the left hand play arps with single key presses at the root, while your right hand plays freestyle melody in a different timbre/patch. That's probably how I would play with the arp modes if I had this and someone could show me how to set it up that way, because I like to jam and freestyle more than create or perform specific songs. But my point is, this is a rather powerful "workstation", age notwithstanding. It is far more than a simple "keyboard" or "synthesizer". It is all that, but also a fairly powerful music computer that can handle arranging and playing complete scores. And unfortunately, learning the ins and outs and interface of this kind of beast can just take a while of beating your head against the manual and watching videos. And you might find you want to do a lot of different things with it! But it's good to narrow it down while you're learning.
As for the musical education part. There are indeed many types of rock. You can use the labels in the manual to help you learn. E.g. if you stack up a handful of things labeled "70s rock", you'll get something vaguely in the realm of 70s rock. Same with "funk" and "house". While some may bicker at their classification, it will be mostly in the right ballpark, and in this sense it's a pretty good tool to show you a little bit about what people mean when they use genre terms. As an aside, I think the name "arpeggiator" is perfectly cromulent. The main difference is that instead of moving through a small number of 3-13 note that are considered an official named "chord" in ascending or descending order, you allow the notes to be set arbitrarily. But they are still basically played in the manner of a harp: a single instrument playing a sequence of notes with equal duration. If you listen to the linked example above that's what's going on. It's certainly not an arbitrary loop of audio, that is why they don't use that word.
And yes, a certain amount of this is just spending time with it. There's not exactly a shortcut to figure out what will sound cool and good to you or me or the world at large, at some point you have to learn some music and computer stuff if you want to make music with computers. They make certain things more easy, so that you don't have to e.g. be really good at playing left hand arps to use them in your song, but there's a cost of knowing both music theoretically and technologically in learning the skills to make that happen. Hope this helps, I will try to come back with a few more tips or suggestions once you say a little more about your goal (and also maybe what your musical background is, e.g. can you play any instrument(s) at the novice or advanced novice level, or better?).
posted by SaltySalticid at 9:02 AM on January 11
As for the musical education part. There are indeed many types of rock. You can use the labels in the manual to help you learn. E.g. if you stack up a handful of things labeled "70s rock", you'll get something vaguely in the realm of 70s rock. Same with "funk" and "house". While some may bicker at their classification, it will be mostly in the right ballpark, and in this sense it's a pretty good tool to show you a little bit about what people mean when they use genre terms. As an aside, I think the name "arpeggiator" is perfectly cromulent. The main difference is that instead of moving through a small number of 3-13 note that are considered an official named "chord" in ascending or descending order, you allow the notes to be set arbitrarily. But they are still basically played in the manner of a harp: a single instrument playing a sequence of notes with equal duration. If you listen to the linked example above that's what's going on. It's certainly not an arbitrary loop of audio, that is why they don't use that word.
And yes, a certain amount of this is just spending time with it. There's not exactly a shortcut to figure out what will sound cool and good to you or me or the world at large, at some point you have to learn some music and computer stuff if you want to make music with computers. They make certain things more easy, so that you don't have to e.g. be really good at playing left hand arps to use them in your song, but there's a cost of knowing both music theoretically and technologically in learning the skills to make that happen. Hope this helps, I will try to come back with a few more tips or suggestions once you say a little more about your goal (and also maybe what your musical background is, e.g. can you play any instrument(s) at the novice or advanced novice level, or better?).
posted by SaltySalticid at 9:02 AM on January 11
learning the ins and outs and interface of this kind of beast can just take a while of beating your head against the manual and watching videos.
I mean, I know this. And I'm trying to make non-rock music, which I expect won't fit easily.
I just wanted to watch one person do one thing well so I could copy their button presses and then, after memorizing that quickly, I could explore by changing one thing at a time.
posted by amtho at 9:11 AM on January 11
I mean, I know this. And I'm trying to make non-rock music, which I expect won't fit easily.
I just wanted to watch one person do one thing well so I could copy their button presses and then, after memorizing that quickly, I could explore by changing one thing at a time.
posted by amtho at 9:11 AM on January 11
For anyone who finds this question in the future: I got hung up on the "arpeggios" section of the user guide, but they're really only useful for improvising when you get to the "performances". Once you put the keyboard in performance mode (click the "PERFORM" button), things just kind of work.
If you get stuck in arpeggio option modification, look for the "EXIT" button to get back to navigating through the options.
posted by amtho at 9:15 AM on January 11
If you get stuck in arpeggio option modification, look for the "EXIT" button to get back to navigating through the options.
posted by amtho at 9:15 AM on January 11
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posted by HearHere at 10:49 AM on January 9