tell me what you find when you read my mind
September 26, 2024 5:09 AM
I feel a bit ridiculous but here goes. When I ask my romantic partners to do something that would make me feel cared for, the act of me asking for it negates any special feelings from them doing it. It then doesn't feel like they're doing it because they care, they're doing it because I asked them to. But they're obviously doing it because they care and want me to be happy. How do I solve this in my brain? (examples inside)
Examples.
. I ask them about their day/how they're going/what do they have on today/so on. They rarely do the same, even if I give them positive feedback after they do it. After a clearer conversation, they put a reminder in their phone to ask me what I'm up to every day. It doesn't feel good when they ask because it doesn't feel like they genuinely care, they just ask because I wanted them to
. I express that I'm hurt that partner isn't curious about me and doesn't know basic facts about me, they apologize and ask me the questions I raised as examples. It feels like the important part to me is their taking the initiative and without that the gesture feels empty.
. I hint that I always did X-activity with past partners and that it's special to me in relationships specifically when I'm asked to do this with them (rather than the other way round). Partner took a while to come around to it and took a bit of convincing because in their previous relationship, that was a friend-only activity and their partner was hostile to it. When they finally started doing it with me, even though they asked me to do it often, it didn't ever feel great doing it because it felt like, despite reassurances, that they're asking me as part of being a Good Partner rather than because they enjoy it with me.
So on. It feels petty and I hate feeling this way when my partners are making an effort but I have a hard time not feeling sad over it.
Examples.
. I ask them about their day/how they're going/what do they have on today/so on. They rarely do the same, even if I give them positive feedback after they do it. After a clearer conversation, they put a reminder in their phone to ask me what I'm up to every day. It doesn't feel good when they ask because it doesn't feel like they genuinely care, they just ask because I wanted them to
. I express that I'm hurt that partner isn't curious about me and doesn't know basic facts about me, they apologize and ask me the questions I raised as examples. It feels like the important part to me is their taking the initiative and without that the gesture feels empty.
. I hint that I always did X-activity with past partners and that it's special to me in relationships specifically when I'm asked to do this with them (rather than the other way round). Partner took a while to come around to it and took a bit of convincing because in their previous relationship, that was a friend-only activity and their partner was hostile to it. When they finally started doing it with me, even though they asked me to do it often, it didn't ever feel great doing it because it felt like, despite reassurances, that they're asking me as part of being a Good Partner rather than because they enjoy it with me.
So on. It feels petty and I hate feeling this way when my partners are making an effort but I have a hard time not feeling sad over it.
It may help to know the concept of double bind as defined by Paul Watzlawick, to find resources.
Examining double binds more closely, the psychologist Paul Watzlawick, PhD,6 described 4 variations on the theme. The first and probably most common is what Watzlawick called the “Be Spontaneous” paradox. This occurs when 1 person requests or demands something from another that can only be given spontaneously. For instance, a woman who expects her partner to surprise her with flowers places the partner into this dilemma. She wants him to do something that by its nature must be spontaneous; if he fails to meet her expectations, he is criticized. However, if he does get her flowers, the response will be, “You only got them for me because I told you to.” Either way, he loses. from this link that randomly came up in my search, not endorsing the borderline framing.
posted by meijusa at 5:39 AM on September 26
Examining double binds more closely, the psychologist Paul Watzlawick, PhD,6 described 4 variations on the theme. The first and probably most common is what Watzlawick called the “Be Spontaneous” paradox. This occurs when 1 person requests or demands something from another that can only be given spontaneously. For instance, a woman who expects her partner to surprise her with flowers places the partner into this dilemma. She wants him to do something that by its nature must be spontaneous; if he fails to meet her expectations, he is criticized. However, if he does get her flowers, the response will be, “You only got them for me because I told you to.” Either way, he loses. from this link that randomly came up in my search, not endorsing the borderline framing.
posted by meijusa at 5:39 AM on September 26
Um. Having to put a reminder in to ask how your day was and not knowing basic facts about you demonstrates a lack of curiosity or interest in your subjective experience.
I’d feel sad, too.
posted by cotton dress sock at 5:54 AM on September 26
I’d feel sad, too.
posted by cotton dress sock at 5:54 AM on September 26
In a way, I think putting those reminders in their phone was an act of love. It sounds like your partner is someone who needs that kind of scaffolding to remember to do stuff they actually want to do. Mr. eirias is someone whose phone is constantly alarming with stuff he doesn’t want to forget to do. It may be unusual to have this for an aspect of social behavior that feels pretty de rigueur to you, but I think the alarms indicate that it isn’t this partner’s usual way of interacting with others, and they want to get it right.
How new is this relationship? Do you think these feelings of yours are part of the anxiety of settling into a trusting pattern with someone when you’re not yet sure how it will go, but you’d like it to work out? Or are they more likely to be part of the discomfort of realizing that the pattern you’ve already established isn’t making you happy and you want to leave? Either one is fine, I just can’t tell from your question.
posted by eirias at 6:06 AM on September 26
How new is this relationship? Do you think these feelings of yours are part of the anxiety of settling into a trusting pattern with someone when you’re not yet sure how it will go, but you’d like it to work out? Or are they more likely to be part of the discomfort of realizing that the pattern you’ve already established isn’t making you happy and you want to leave? Either one is fine, I just can’t tell from your question.
posted by eirias at 6:06 AM on September 26
I’m also going to chalk this up to a case of your partner’s brain works differently than yours, and things that seem obvious to you don’t immediately follow to them, so they have to make effort to change their communication habits because they value the relationship. Case in point: reading this post reminded me to text my partner to ask how she’s feeling, a thing which I’m not used to doing but am in the process of learning how to communicate in a way that makes her feel supported
posted by Jon_Evil at 6:14 AM on September 26
posted by Jon_Evil at 6:14 AM on September 26
Doing what you ask is a way of caring about you. You’ve told them something makes you feel good, and that information makes them want to do it. How is that not caring?
Some people don’t ask questions because they don’t want to accidentally ask something that will make you uncomfortable. I’m much more likely to volunteer information about my day and self and wait for others to do the same. That is a form of caring - I’m saying “I don’t want to ask a question you may be uncomfortable answering. I want to share what I’m comfortable with, and even though I may be curious about something, I’ll wait for you to share what you’re comfortable with because your comfort is more important than my curiosity being satisfied.”
posted by wheatlets at 6:37 AM on September 26
Some people don’t ask questions because they don’t want to accidentally ask something that will make you uncomfortable. I’m much more likely to volunteer information about my day and self and wait for others to do the same. That is a form of caring - I’m saying “I don’t want to ask a question you may be uncomfortable answering. I want to share what I’m comfortable with, and even though I may be curious about something, I’ll wait for you to share what you’re comfortable with because your comfort is more important than my curiosity being satisfied.”
posted by wheatlets at 6:37 AM on September 26
I've seen variations of this pattern in so many relationships, including my own. I used to chalk it up to "love languages" etc... but ultimately I think it was a subtle mismatch. The root issue was that my partner's level of investment in me just wasn't where I needed it to be, so I always felt "hungry for more love" and no gesture was enough or correct, it all kind of felt like being breadcrumbed along and none of it satiated me.
When I felt under-loved overall, it was like I was slowly starving. And I learned that trying to get nutrition from "snacks" would never be enough.
When I started dating someone who I could feel really deeply and unambiguously cared about me, I no longer felt hungry. So I didn't care about little gestures because I was no longer starving for love overall. Now if I want a gesture I don't feel weird asking for it and I don't feel like it's hollow, because I can feel the love in so many other ways and am full - so no bouquet of flowers or date night makes a difference.
When I feel emotionally secure on a base level, I still LIKE snacks, but I don't feel like I NEED them because dinner was tasty, nourishing, and plentiful, so I'm already satiated.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 6:47 AM on September 26
When I felt under-loved overall, it was like I was slowly starving. And I learned that trying to get nutrition from "snacks" would never be enough.
When I started dating someone who I could feel really deeply and unambiguously cared about me, I no longer felt hungry. So I didn't care about little gestures because I was no longer starving for love overall. Now if I want a gesture I don't feel weird asking for it and I don't feel like it's hollow, because I can feel the love in so many other ways and am full - so no bouquet of flowers or date night makes a difference.
When I feel emotionally secure on a base level, I still LIKE snacks, but I don't feel like I NEED them because dinner was tasty, nourishing, and plentiful, so I'm already satiated.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 6:47 AM on September 26
How do you feel about these people in between when you meet them and when they become partners? Do they seem curious and attentive until partnered, then get bored? Or are they sort of disinterested from the start? If the latter, then maybe weed those people out sooner than later. If the former, then it can seem like they only care about the chase, and not being there as a partner, and that's a serious to concern to address, and gtfo if the two of you can't figure it out pretty quick.
Also, maybe it's just me, but "X-activity" is really confusing. It's some thing that is really important for you to do with partner, but also really important that you cannot ask them to do it and they have to ask you? That made me think it might be a sex thing or something otherwise intimate, but then you say it's a "friend-only activity" for some people. And now I am mystified thinking of what is going on. Like, if you really can't enjoy badminton unless your partner starts soliciting you for badminton games frequently after you indicate an interest, and you can't enjoy badminton if you ask them to play, and you can't enjoy it if you feel like they are just asking to please you because it's not their most genuine favorite thing, then you have to start looking for partners who already enjoy badminton. Or poker, or bird watching, or D&D, or Smash Bros., or whatever this thing is that is very important for you. And if this sounds totally off-base to you, then you might get better help on that angle by telling us what the activity is. We already don't know who you are. The first part of the question is fairly common, but it seems like the activity thing is pretty dang important and can't really be addressed without more context.
posted by SaltySalticid at 6:59 AM on September 26
Also, maybe it's just me, but "X-activity" is really confusing. It's some thing that is really important for you to do with partner, but also really important that you cannot ask them to do it and they have to ask you? That made me think it might be a sex thing or something otherwise intimate, but then you say it's a "friend-only activity" for some people. And now I am mystified thinking of what is going on. Like, if you really can't enjoy badminton unless your partner starts soliciting you for badminton games frequently after you indicate an interest, and you can't enjoy badminton if you ask them to play, and you can't enjoy it if you feel like they are just asking to please you because it's not their most genuine favorite thing, then you have to start looking for partners who already enjoy badminton. Or poker, or bird watching, or D&D, or Smash Bros., or whatever this thing is that is very important for you. And if this sounds totally off-base to you, then you might get better help on that angle by telling us what the activity is. We already don't know who you are. The first part of the question is fairly common, but it seems like the activity thing is pretty dang important and can't really be addressed without more context.
posted by SaltySalticid at 6:59 AM on September 26
At least initially I chalk a lack of curiosity up to Ask vs Guess culture mismatch (but I'm being charitable; after a while I realize they just don't care, they're not that in to me).
posted by Rash at 7:25 AM on September 26
posted by Rash at 7:25 AM on September 26
I saw this play out in my parents marriage with regards to my father bringing home flowers once a week. Not something he would naturally do, but it was an ask from my mom.
Many years later, when I was having trouble with this sort of thing in my own marriage I asked her about the awkwardness of having to ask for the show of caring. Her answer was that it was very awkward at first, but as the years went by it became clear that he was dedicated to doing this for her and the awkwardness faded.
You might think of it in a similar way. It’s awkward now but it’s an investment in the future.
(N.B. This did not work out in my own marriage. My wife would do things for a few weeks and then completely forget about them. In the end that was part of me realizing just how little work she was willing and/or able to put into our relationship.)
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:26 AM on September 26
Many years later, when I was having trouble with this sort of thing in my own marriage I asked her about the awkwardness of having to ask for the show of caring. Her answer was that it was very awkward at first, but as the years went by it became clear that he was dedicated to doing this for her and the awkwardness faded.
You might think of it in a similar way. It’s awkward now but it’s an investment in the future.
(N.B. This did not work out in my own marriage. My wife would do things for a few weeks and then completely forget about them. In the end that was part of me realizing just how little work she was willing and/or able to put into our relationship.)
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:26 AM on September 26
Is your partner doing a solid amount of caring for you without you having to ask, and you are just having to ask for a few specific things? Or are you having to ask for the most basic amount of attention? These would feel very different to me.
Do you feel supported by your partner overall? Do you trust them to have your back? If not, pay attention to that feeling — this might be a bigger issue.
posted by danceswithlight at 7:51 AM on September 26
Do you feel supported by your partner overall? Do you trust them to have your back? If not, pay attention to that feeling — this might be a bigger issue.
posted by danceswithlight at 7:51 AM on September 26
Tbqh this sounds like incompatibility. I hate that the flowers example has entered the chat because I don't see it as comparable to what you're describing. What you are asking for isn't really a specific task, it's a feeling that isn't there. Other nice feelings are there in your partner (there is absolutely care in the effort being made, like the phone reminder), but it just isn't what you need. It's okay that it's not enough. Your needs are worthwhile. Like, no curiosity about you isn't communication issue, and phone reminder will make him ask, but it won't make him feel interested in you, that's why it doesn't work. You shouldn't force yourself to settle for scraps, like nouvelle personne said.
posted by wellifyouinsist at 7:59 AM on September 26
posted by wellifyouinsist at 7:59 AM on September 26
Casting another vote for incompatibility; the worst kind, a little, subtle incompatibility that is very tempting to reconcile yourself to.
In my last relationship I basically thought I was a monster because every gesture I tried to make to my partner was rebuffed as being incorrect, and I never made the correct gestures. I was trying so hard! I wanted so much to make him happy! But his brain was ultimately very foreign to me and even as I figured out the things he wanted, giving them was always going to be counterintuitive and a bit forced, and then he wouldn't appreciate them because they felt forced.
(I was so preoccupied with how bad I was at this and how bad I felt about it that I barely noticed he was also never actually making gestures that truly "landed" with me.)
I say this is the worst kind of incompatibility because it's easy to think oh, there's nothing wrong with this person, and in fact there's something wrong with ME and if I could just fix it, everything would be fine. Which is what you're doing. Because if it's not their fault it must be your fault, right? Wrong! It can be everyone's fault and nobody's fault at all, all at once.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:09 AM on September 26
In my last relationship I basically thought I was a monster because every gesture I tried to make to my partner was rebuffed as being incorrect, and I never made the correct gestures. I was trying so hard! I wanted so much to make him happy! But his brain was ultimately very foreign to me and even as I figured out the things he wanted, giving them was always going to be counterintuitive and a bit forced, and then he wouldn't appreciate them because they felt forced.
(I was so preoccupied with how bad I was at this and how bad I felt about it that I barely noticed he was also never actually making gestures that truly "landed" with me.)
I say this is the worst kind of incompatibility because it's easy to think oh, there's nothing wrong with this person, and in fact there's something wrong with ME and if I could just fix it, everything would be fine. Which is what you're doing. Because if it's not their fault it must be your fault, right? Wrong! It can be everyone's fault and nobody's fault at all, all at once.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:09 AM on September 26
I will say though that it can't hurt to spend some time in therapy unpacking the deeper "stuff" behind what makes you feel cared for and explore whether there are 1. some other ways to get these needs met that might open up your compatibility with people and 2. some ways you can make yourself feel cared for in a way that takes some of the weight out of your relationships.
(Your relationships should make you feel cared for and it seems like your asks are reasonable! But you seem to be putting a ton of pressure on both yourself and your partners to be and feel a way that nobody is being and feeling? Maybe it is time to put on your own oxygen mask a bit.)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:20 AM on September 26
(Your relationships should make you feel cared for and it seems like your asks are reasonable! But you seem to be putting a ton of pressure on both yourself and your partners to be and feel a way that nobody is being and feeling? Maybe it is time to put on your own oxygen mask a bit.)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:20 AM on September 26
I too am wondering if there's anyone else in your life who does these things spontaneously the way you want. I'm not ruling out the "subtly incompatible" hypothesis but it's also okay to outsource elements of your needs–and it's okay to decide you're not someone who's okay with outsourcing! But maybe cultivating more/deeper friendships with people who do do the checking-in, learning-facts stuff of their own initiative would help you at least feel less emotionally raw about this and think through whether or not this is something you can compromise on as long as you have outside support.
posted by teremala at 8:37 AM on September 26
posted by teremala at 8:37 AM on September 26
I experience this in some relationships. For me it's because I want people to be naturally thinking about me throughout the day, and behaving in ways which make that obvious. Otherwise I feel like I'm sort of extraneous to their lives. If they need to be prompted in order to consider me, I feel like I'm taking second place behind everything else in their lives.
In some sorts of relationships it's a fundamental incompatibility. In others, I have been able to take note of the things they WILL do that demonstrate care (for example, everything I ask for directly!) and appreciate that. But I do want more from life partner types of relationships.
posted by metasarah at 9:37 AM on September 26
In some sorts of relationships it's a fundamental incompatibility. In others, I have been able to take note of the things they WILL do that demonstrate care (for example, everything I ask for directly!) and appreciate that. But I do want more from life partner types of relationships.
posted by metasarah at 9:37 AM on September 26
I think that if you stay with this person/these people (sorry, can't quite tell if the question is referencing partners as in across time or partners as in concurrent), it's probably best to approach it as a both/and.
"If I have to ask for it, it doesn't count" is a common destructive thought pattern, for sure. There's probably something you can do on your end to work with this emotional desire to have someone just know so that you're not devaluing good-faith efforts that are, as you say, real reflections of care. You're clearly working on this piece.
It's also okay to be disappointed/hurt that the desired things aren't happening unprompted. That's the reality of what you feel, and those feelings deserve your tending. I am pretty good at 'people are different and do things differently' but I have never been able to accept on an emotional level that someone can care about me and not have, or at at any rate express, any curiosity about what's going on in my life or mind or heart. This is a thing that I give in spades and it's a thing I need to feel seen and loved. I don't think I would last in a situation where I was perpetually in the position of having to essentially ask about myself on my own behalf. It's worth trying to work with and keeping an eye on over time, but a real, honest evaluation of whether it's truly working for you is only possible if you don't totally shove down and override the sadness in the name of being a better and more understanding partner.
posted by wormtales at 9:46 AM on September 26
"If I have to ask for it, it doesn't count" is a common destructive thought pattern, for sure. There's probably something you can do on your end to work with this emotional desire to have someone just know so that you're not devaluing good-faith efforts that are, as you say, real reflections of care. You're clearly working on this piece.
It's also okay to be disappointed/hurt that the desired things aren't happening unprompted. That's the reality of what you feel, and those feelings deserve your tending. I am pretty good at 'people are different and do things differently' but I have never been able to accept on an emotional level that someone can care about me and not have, or at at any rate express, any curiosity about what's going on in my life or mind or heart. This is a thing that I give in spades and it's a thing I need to feel seen and loved. I don't think I would last in a situation where I was perpetually in the position of having to essentially ask about myself on my own behalf. It's worth trying to work with and keeping an eye on over time, but a real, honest evaluation of whether it's truly working for you is only possible if you don't totally shove down and override the sadness in the name of being a better and more understanding partner.
posted by wormtales at 9:46 AM on September 26
The first and third seem do like they're more about your (totally valid) preferences (putting a calendar notification in and following through is not something you do if you don't care) but the second one would be the most concerning to me.
On the one hand, maybe it's an incompatibility- not everyone agrees on what "basic facts" are or how much they matter to know about the other in a relationship. On the other, feeling like someone isn't curious about you sucks ass and can poison everything else, and very likely that feeling isn't coming from nowhere. Are they curious about no aspects of your life or self? Or is it just that they're interested in different parts of you than you'd like them to be? If it's the first one, or almost entirely the first one, that seems like a real and serious problem and not something to fix in your own brain.
posted by BungaDunga at 9:47 AM on September 26
On the one hand, maybe it's an incompatibility- not everyone agrees on what "basic facts" are or how much they matter to know about the other in a relationship. On the other, feeling like someone isn't curious about you sucks ass and can poison everything else, and very likely that feeling isn't coming from nowhere. Are they curious about no aspects of your life or self? Or is it just that they're interested in different parts of you than you'd like them to be? If it's the first one, or almost entirely the first one, that seems like a real and serious problem and not something to fix in your own brain.
posted by BungaDunga at 9:47 AM on September 26
Um. Having to put a reminder in to ask how your day was and not knowing basic facts about you demonstrates a lack of curiosity or interest in your subjective experience.
Or it could mean the person is autistic or for some other reason not spontaneous. I have calling one of my adult children set as a reminder on my phone because no matter how much I enjoy talking to him and as much as I love him, it is just very rare for me to spontaneously call anybody. I would hope that if he knew it was a to-do list item he could recognize it as meaning it’s important enough to me for me to make sure I do it, and that just putting it on my to-do list is an expression of my love for him.
posted by Well I never at 9:48 AM on September 26
Or it could mean the person is autistic or for some other reason not spontaneous. I have calling one of my adult children set as a reminder on my phone because no matter how much I enjoy talking to him and as much as I love him, it is just very rare for me to spontaneously call anybody. I would hope that if he knew it was a to-do list item he could recognize it as meaning it’s important enough to me for me to make sure I do it, and that just putting it on my to-do list is an expression of my love for him.
posted by Well I never at 9:48 AM on September 26
You frame it like it’s your problem to solve or you are the problem and I’d be wary of automatically discounting yourself like that! You’re just fine. You like what you like and that’s not some flaw.
Relationships have to bounce back some good feelings otherwise it’s just transactional. You want to tug on the invisible string and feel that they are holding the other end. If there’s no response or no tension then are we even connected? I totally get it.
So maybe explore what is the invisible string between you two. How would an outside observer know that you’re connected if they weren’t told you’re a couple.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 9:52 AM on September 26
Relationships have to bounce back some good feelings otherwise it’s just transactional. You want to tug on the invisible string and feel that they are holding the other end. If there’s no response or no tension then are we even connected? I totally get it.
So maybe explore what is the invisible string between you two. How would an outside observer know that you’re connected if they weren’t told you’re a couple.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 9:52 AM on September 26
To build on Well I nevers comment, a lot of what you mentioned reminded me of this piece from the cut "What My Adult Autism Diagnosis Finally Explained." She has to write a post it to go remember to say hello to her husband, not because she doesnt love him, but because it just never crosses her mind.
Its hard to tell from the question if this is one person or a continuing issue in many relationships. This could be just a communications style that needs to get sorted out. I had to teach my husband that if he went out to buy a treat or a sandwich...he should bring me one too. He grew up being very self supportive and just....never thought about tiny things like that. Now I get treats too. I dont feel less loved because I had to express that to him, but I also know he shows me that he loves me in a ton of other ways. Do you feel like that is happening?
On the complete other side, this person might just not be that into you, or into relationships, or just too far into themselves. I think you know which option (just how they are but can and want to learn/just not into you/just into themselves) you are being faced with.
posted by zara at 9:58 AM on September 26
Its hard to tell from the question if this is one person or a continuing issue in many relationships. This could be just a communications style that needs to get sorted out. I had to teach my husband that if he went out to buy a treat or a sandwich...he should bring me one too. He grew up being very self supportive and just....never thought about tiny things like that. Now I get treats too. I dont feel less loved because I had to express that to him, but I also know he shows me that he loves me in a ton of other ways. Do you feel like that is happening?
On the complete other side, this person might just not be that into you, or into relationships, or just too far into themselves. I think you know which option (just how they are but can and want to learn/just not into you/just into themselves) you are being faced with.
posted by zara at 9:58 AM on September 26
It sounds like, rather than wanting them to ask you about your day, you want them to be curious about your world. That's not something someone changes easily, if that's even possible. Some of the comments above about neurodivergence are really resonating with me.
So my question becomes, can you be happy with something else or is this something you need from your romantic partner? Can you look at the other ways they show they care about you and feel satisfied with that? Can someone else fill this need for you?
None of these things mean that someone's not a good person, but it could mean they aren't the right person for you right now.
posted by advicepig at 10:02 AM on September 26
So my question becomes, can you be happy with something else or is this something you need from your romantic partner? Can you look at the other ways they show they care about you and feel satisfied with that? Can someone else fill this need for you?
None of these things mean that someone's not a good person, but it could mean they aren't the right person for you right now.
posted by advicepig at 10:02 AM on September 26
Something that I have learned (from my own and other people's relationships) is it's not just important to be loved. For me, that's just baseline. What's important to my happiness is how I'm loved. The *how* of how I want to be loved is someone to show curiosity, to hear what I say I'm interested in and take initiative in sharing or encouraging those interests, to over time understand me so well as to anticipate my needs and support me without me having to ask. This is how I show up in relationships and also how I want people to show up in relationships with me. This is very important to me.
What you need to decide is how *you* want to be loved. Perhaps we are similar and your partner isn't a match. Perhaps there are other things that are more important to you than what you mention here. Nurture them. What BungaDunga said is key. This could just be an incompatibility and that's okay! You don't have to stay with someone just because they aren't all bad.
Good luck!
posted by greta simone at 10:13 AM on September 26
What you need to decide is how *you* want to be loved. Perhaps we are similar and your partner isn't a match. Perhaps there are other things that are more important to you than what you mention here. Nurture them. What BungaDunga said is key. This could just be an incompatibility and that's okay! You don't have to stay with someone just because they aren't all bad.
Good luck!
posted by greta simone at 10:13 AM on September 26
This person might be lacking in some social skills, but if that is where they are at, the phone reminder is certainly an act of caring. It is no different than a reminder for medication, you don’t take the med because the phone tells you to, you take it because the medication is important to life.
I express that I'm hurt that partner isn't curious about me and doesn't know basic facts about me, they apologize and ask me the questions I raised as examples. It feels like the important part to me is their taking the initiative and without that the gesture feels empty.
You cannot make people be what they are not. Some people are not that curious and just don’t absorb details the way you do. (Years ago, a guy I was dating mentioned his sister was a high school teacher. I asked, what subject does she teach? He did not know.) Is this person is generally interested in you and shows you they care? They don't need to know where you went to middle school to care about you.
I hint that I always did X-activity with past partners and that it's special to me in relationships specifically when I'm asked to do this with them (rather than the other way round). Partner took a while to come around to it and took a bit of convincing because in their previous relationship, that was a friend-only activity and their partner was hostile to it. When they finally started doing it with me, even though they asked me to do it often, it didn't ever feel great doing it because it felt like, despite reassurances, that they're asking me as part of being a Good Partner rather than because they enjoy it with me.
I am a big believer in asking for what you want; but you seem to be imposing your baggage on this person. (As an aside, why did you “hint”, not ask outright (which it seems like you do freely)?) If they didn’t want to go rock climbing (or whatever it was) because of past experiences, instead of accepting that, you pushed it. And not only they have to do the activity, they have to initiate it? This starts to be unreasonable and controlling on your part.
So, there is the compatibility issue, but I also think you should loosen up on this idea that because you state a need, it must be met. It is healthy to know yourself and what you want from a partner, but not everything should get the same weight, and just because you want something doesn't mean you are entitled to it. I'd stop trying to script this person's behavior. Accept and enjoy them or break up.
Good luck
posted by rhonzo at 10:24 AM on September 26
I express that I'm hurt that partner isn't curious about me and doesn't know basic facts about me, they apologize and ask me the questions I raised as examples. It feels like the important part to me is their taking the initiative and without that the gesture feels empty.
You cannot make people be what they are not. Some people are not that curious and just don’t absorb details the way you do. (Years ago, a guy I was dating mentioned his sister was a high school teacher. I asked, what subject does she teach? He did not know.) Is this person is generally interested in you and shows you they care? They don't need to know where you went to middle school to care about you.
I hint that I always did X-activity with past partners and that it's special to me in relationships specifically when I'm asked to do this with them (rather than the other way round). Partner took a while to come around to it and took a bit of convincing because in their previous relationship, that was a friend-only activity and their partner was hostile to it. When they finally started doing it with me, even though they asked me to do it often, it didn't ever feel great doing it because it felt like, despite reassurances, that they're asking me as part of being a Good Partner rather than because they enjoy it with me.
I am a big believer in asking for what you want; but you seem to be imposing your baggage on this person. (As an aside, why did you “hint”, not ask outright (which it seems like you do freely)?) If they didn’t want to go rock climbing (or whatever it was) because of past experiences, instead of accepting that, you pushed it. And not only they have to do the activity, they have to initiate it? This starts to be unreasonable and controlling on your part.
So, there is the compatibility issue, but I also think you should loosen up on this idea that because you state a need, it must be met. It is healthy to know yourself and what you want from a partner, but not everything should get the same weight, and just because you want something doesn't mean you are entitled to it. I'd stop trying to script this person's behavior. Accept and enjoy them or break up.
Good luck
posted by rhonzo at 10:24 AM on September 26
to expand, maybe they don't care what you do for a living and have never been interested. Maybe they find their own work super boring and work-talk in general super unpleasant and uninteresting, so they don't ask about it and don't therefore know anything about your work. But they are super interested in what literature or movies or video games you like, and are always interested to hear what's going on with that. Or maybe they aren't interested in where you grew up and your relationship with your siblings, but they are super interested in your hopes and dreams for the future, or your hobbies, or whatever.
If it's that sort of thing, then it could be an incompatibility- you really want to have those things in their head so they can understand that side of you, and furthermore you want them to care about that side of you. Neurodivergence could come into play there, for sure, but either way it could just be that they value different things. You're not going to be able to make them care, so it is totally logical that you don't find the "asking the exact questions I told them to and no more" totally unsatisfying. On the other hand, if you can connect on other stuff, that could be enough, but it sounds like for you it simply isn't.
if there's no aspects of you that they seem really interested in, that's a huge problem and not easily explained by neurodivergence, other than perhaps a issue with communication generally and they actually are interested but struggle to express it. I don't know if there's a surefire way to distinguish the two, honestly. It may not really matter though- if they can't communicate their interest in you then it's going to be a relationship issue even if the interest is actually there, and it shouldn't be up to you to find ways to live with it.
posted by BungaDunga at 10:39 AM on September 26
If it's that sort of thing, then it could be an incompatibility- you really want to have those things in their head so they can understand that side of you, and furthermore you want them to care about that side of you. Neurodivergence could come into play there, for sure, but either way it could just be that they value different things. You're not going to be able to make them care, so it is totally logical that you don't find the "asking the exact questions I told them to and no more" totally unsatisfying. On the other hand, if you can connect on other stuff, that could be enough, but it sounds like for you it simply isn't.
if there's no aspects of you that they seem really interested in, that's a huge problem and not easily explained by neurodivergence, other than perhaps a issue with communication generally and they actually are interested but struggle to express it. I don't know if there's a surefire way to distinguish the two, honestly. It may not really matter though- if they can't communicate their interest in you then it's going to be a relationship issue even if the interest is actually there, and it shouldn't be up to you to find ways to live with it.
posted by BungaDunga at 10:39 AM on September 26
Maybe make a list of what your partner does do that makes you feel loved and appreciated. Make another list of what you want, or need, or think are the most important.
I would like DH to bring me flowers. In all the years we've been married, he never has. Never bought his mother or sisters flowers, either. But DH has always checked the truck and trailer almost obsessively before I have taken long trips with the horse(s) even if it was a trip he would have preferred I didn't take. Roses are nice, but the knowledge that my horses and I were safe and didn't have to stress about the vehicle was an amazing gift. I would trade any number of floral decorations to have that.
If you weigh the items on your first list and find they aren't enough to make you feel loved and cherished, perhaps your partner isn't someone you can be with.
And please don't compare current partner with previous partner(s) That never ends up being a good thing. There are significant reasons why you didn't stay with previous partner.
posted by BlueHorse at 11:16 AM on September 26
I would like DH to bring me flowers. In all the years we've been married, he never has. Never bought his mother or sisters flowers, either. But DH has always checked the truck and trailer almost obsessively before I have taken long trips with the horse(s) even if it was a trip he would have preferred I didn't take. Roses are nice, but the knowledge that my horses and I were safe and didn't have to stress about the vehicle was an amazing gift. I would trade any number of floral decorations to have that.
If you weigh the items on your first list and find they aren't enough to make you feel loved and cherished, perhaps your partner isn't someone you can be with.
And please don't compare current partner with previous partner(s) That never ends up being a good thing. There are significant reasons why you didn't stay with previous partner.
posted by BlueHorse at 11:16 AM on September 26
I think if when the phone reminder went off, if your partner was going "Ooh! So what do you have going on today! I want to know!" you wouldn't be writing to us. I've made an agenda for a hangout with my friend because we are both yappers and I thought if I didn't write it down we'd be off to the races and she would leave without me checking in about important stuff in her life. But because of the existing warmth and affection between us it was funny, not sad.
If they're asking like it's a checklist item required for this particular relationship, well of course that sucks! You want them to be interested in the answers and be curious and invested in you as a person. You're not just two contextless entities colliding in space and time. It's not wrong or petty to want a partner who shows enthusiasm towards you.
posted by Emmy Rae at 11:24 AM on September 26
If they're asking like it's a checklist item required for this particular relationship, well of course that sucks! You want them to be interested in the answers and be curious and invested in you as a person. You're not just two contextless entities colliding in space and time. It's not wrong or petty to want a partner who shows enthusiasm towards you.
posted by Emmy Rae at 11:24 AM on September 26
It's not that the poster is upset that their partner used a reminder in their phone or doesn't remember to ask questions. It's that their partner shows initiative and enthusiasm in demonstrating they care and proactively want to build and maintain intimacy in the relationship.
Say I forget my partner's birthday and they are hurt and upset (birthdays just aren't important to me and I don't care if my partner does anything special for my birthday). The point isn't checking the box on the objective of remembering the birthday, the point is demonstrating to my partner that I value their feelings and they are a priority to me. Really listening to them when they tell me that it hurts when their needs aren't met (even if I don't care about birthdays myself). To meet their needs I don't just accomplish the goal of remembering the birthday date next time, I also need to show that I heard them that birthdays are important to them by showing some proactive initiative and enthusiasm for celebrating. Maybe I have the reminder in my phone a few weeks early so that I can put together a list of fancy restaurants to celebrate as a way to show enthusiasm and interest.
To me there's a big difference between enthusiastically engaging in "it matters to you but I don't really care that much" behavior and doing it like you're checking off an item on a list out of a sense of obligation with zero enthusiasm. I can see how in a lot of relationships the other partner could be confused because they did the thing you asked, so why are you still upset? I think it's important for both parties to understand that "the ask" isn't always about accomplishing a goal; sometimes "the ask" itself is the tip of an iceberg of needs for reassurance and feeling valued.
Using the flowers example, it's often not the flowers themselves that are important; it's that the partner showed an interest, enthusiasm, and initiative to do something to demonstrate they are thinking about your or want to make you feel like a priority. They hear your need to feel special sometimes and proactively took action to meet that need. The flowers themselves are basically just symbolic.
In trying to better understand the perspective of the partner who feels like maybe they are constantly getting it wrong trying to do "the thing" I found Sue Johnson's book Hold Me Tight to be really super helpful. It helped me understand their perspective as well as my own reactions and assumptions about this type of dynamic.
posted by forkisbetter at 12:19 PM on September 26
Say I forget my partner's birthday and they are hurt and upset (birthdays just aren't important to me and I don't care if my partner does anything special for my birthday). The point isn't checking the box on the objective of remembering the birthday, the point is demonstrating to my partner that I value their feelings and they are a priority to me. Really listening to them when they tell me that it hurts when their needs aren't met (even if I don't care about birthdays myself). To meet their needs I don't just accomplish the goal of remembering the birthday date next time, I also need to show that I heard them that birthdays are important to them by showing some proactive initiative and enthusiasm for celebrating. Maybe I have the reminder in my phone a few weeks early so that I can put together a list of fancy restaurants to celebrate as a way to show enthusiasm and interest.
To me there's a big difference between enthusiastically engaging in "it matters to you but I don't really care that much" behavior and doing it like you're checking off an item on a list out of a sense of obligation with zero enthusiasm. I can see how in a lot of relationships the other partner could be confused because they did the thing you asked, so why are you still upset? I think it's important for both parties to understand that "the ask" isn't always about accomplishing a goal; sometimes "the ask" itself is the tip of an iceberg of needs for reassurance and feeling valued.
Using the flowers example, it's often not the flowers themselves that are important; it's that the partner showed an interest, enthusiasm, and initiative to do something to demonstrate they are thinking about your or want to make you feel like a priority. They hear your need to feel special sometimes and proactively took action to meet that need. The flowers themselves are basically just symbolic.
In trying to better understand the perspective of the partner who feels like maybe they are constantly getting it wrong trying to do "the thing" I found Sue Johnson's book Hold Me Tight to be really super helpful. It helped me understand their perspective as well as my own reactions and assumptions about this type of dynamic.
posted by forkisbetter at 12:19 PM on September 26
If they didn't care for you they wouldn't even do it when you asked - reminders in the phone? that's them caring - remembering to do something that doesn't come naturally to one is hard, but they cared enough to want to change their behaviour - take the win, it's really a good thing
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 12:20 PM on September 26
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 12:20 PM on September 26
My entire marriage changed for the better when I recognized all the ways my husband says “I love you” - all day, every day.
You see - I didn’t realize that him pointing out a small unevenness in a stairway was him saying “I love you, I would never want you to get hurt”. I thought he was saying “You seem to be a bit of a clutz and I, the coordinated one, should show you this.” He wasn’t. He was saying “I cherish you.”
Every romantic word I longed for he was giving me with his actions. With his reminding me to wear socks when I left the house and making sure I had a sweater. With him texting to let me know he’d seen a loose dog in the neighborhood when he knew I was going for a walk. With him reminding me to never text and drive.
And when I saw this and started treating all of this like what it was - a deep declaration of love - he started tuning in in so many other ways. Because now he felt heard, you know?
At any rate - that was the mindset shift that took my marriage to a new level. Just letting him express love in his own way. Such a small change. It’s made a huge difference.
posted by hilaryjade at 12:23 PM on September 26
You see - I didn’t realize that him pointing out a small unevenness in a stairway was him saying “I love you, I would never want you to get hurt”. I thought he was saying “You seem to be a bit of a clutz and I, the coordinated one, should show you this.” He wasn’t. He was saying “I cherish you.”
Every romantic word I longed for he was giving me with his actions. With his reminding me to wear socks when I left the house and making sure I had a sweater. With him texting to let me know he’d seen a loose dog in the neighborhood when he knew I was going for a walk. With him reminding me to never text and drive.
And when I saw this and started treating all of this like what it was - a deep declaration of love - he started tuning in in so many other ways. Because now he felt heard, you know?
At any rate - that was the mindset shift that took my marriage to a new level. Just letting him express love in his own way. Such a small change. It’s made a huge difference.
posted by hilaryjade at 12:23 PM on September 26
they're obviously doing it because they care and want me to be happy. How do I solve this in my brain?
the attachment project offers this: “The good news is that our brains are incredibly resilient structures that are capable of rewiring themselves after repeated positive experiences”
posted by HearHere at 5:20 PM on September 26
the attachment project offers this: “The good news is that our brains are incredibly resilient structures that are capable of rewiring themselves after repeated positive experiences”
posted by HearHere at 5:20 PM on September 26
I don’t think you need to rewire this…
I was once with someone who, when asked by a counsellor to name three good things about me, said I was “nice, pleasant, and cute”. This was after FIVE YEARS together. I felt kicked in the gut. You might say that sort of thing about someone you met once at a party. Or a pet. He also liked *things I did for him*. No kidding, who doesn’t like that. This person engaged with me as an object, a function of his needs, almost entirely. (There was plenty of evidence for this which I won’t share now.) Obviously, that is a dehumanizing experience, in my case inflected heavily by sexism.
Someone else, different relationship: knows my family history. Knows the main events of my life. The stories in which I was a hero, the big ones where I wasn’t. Knows all the songs I like and why; can hear a song I’ve never heard before and know with 99% certainty whether I’ll like it or not (when I do hear it). Knows how I like my food and cares to make it for me that way. Respects me for whatever wins I’ve made and celebrates them. Despite being imo an unusually funny person, laughs at *my* jokes. Asks me *at least* daily how I am, cares about the answer, if it’s “not so great” does things to help me feel better (by my definition, not some idea he might have). Values my opinion. Supports me in my goals. Not saying there aren’t challenges but they’re time limited and workable and as young people say, I feel seen, understood and appreciated as a *person with agency* with a meaningful internal world.
Do you feel like your partner sees you as a human being? Or do you think he sees you more like a bloody pet or a function of his needs?
I want to remind other posters that you’re talking about more than one partner, not just your current one. Are ALL of them neurodivergent ? Needing a reminder is I guess one thing — clearly not giving AF about your internal experience is another which is more in line with an extremely well-delineated and extremely shitty way men have treated women forever. Not sure of your gender, but if you are a woman, consider this could apply. If anything is to be rewired, it is likely something about being able to get out of relationships more quickly when you’re not being respected as a human being, which happens to many, many women because of how the world actually is, not because they have “issues”. I don’t want you feeling gaslit here.
posted by cotton dress sock at 1:30 AM on September 27
I was once with someone who, when asked by a counsellor to name three good things about me, said I was “nice, pleasant, and cute”. This was after FIVE YEARS together. I felt kicked in the gut. You might say that sort of thing about someone you met once at a party. Or a pet. He also liked *things I did for him*. No kidding, who doesn’t like that. This person engaged with me as an object, a function of his needs, almost entirely. (There was plenty of evidence for this which I won’t share now.) Obviously, that is a dehumanizing experience, in my case inflected heavily by sexism.
Someone else, different relationship: knows my family history. Knows the main events of my life. The stories in which I was a hero, the big ones where I wasn’t. Knows all the songs I like and why; can hear a song I’ve never heard before and know with 99% certainty whether I’ll like it or not (when I do hear it). Knows how I like my food and cares to make it for me that way. Respects me for whatever wins I’ve made and celebrates them. Despite being imo an unusually funny person, laughs at *my* jokes. Asks me *at least* daily how I am, cares about the answer, if it’s “not so great” does things to help me feel better (by my definition, not some idea he might have). Values my opinion. Supports me in my goals. Not saying there aren’t challenges but they’re time limited and workable and as young people say, I feel seen, understood and appreciated as a *person with agency* with a meaningful internal world.
Do you feel like your partner sees you as a human being? Or do you think he sees you more like a bloody pet or a function of his needs?
I want to remind other posters that you’re talking about more than one partner, not just your current one. Are ALL of them neurodivergent ? Needing a reminder is I guess one thing — clearly not giving AF about your internal experience is another which is more in line with an extremely well-delineated and extremely shitty way men have treated women forever. Not sure of your gender, but if you are a woman, consider this could apply. If anything is to be rewired, it is likely something about being able to get out of relationships more quickly when you’re not being respected as a human being, which happens to many, many women because of how the world actually is, not because they have “issues”. I don’t want you feeling gaslit here.
posted by cotton dress sock at 1:30 AM on September 27
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posted by plonkee at 5:16 AM on September 26