My boyfriend and I may not be compatible, please help? (more inside)
August 24, 2024 8:13 PM
Hi, thank you guys for everything. I'm having some trouble with my personal relationship and where responsibility lies for certain things. Putting details and some history below (potentially NSFW), and thank you guys so much for everything.
He wants to be more submissive, he has a lot of fetishes, and I've always been willing to commit to these things, even if they weren't necessarily things that I wanted. But sometimes when I bring up things that he has told me he wants, mostly to make him happy, he freaks out. He freaks out often when I bring up anything sexual, even though he is perfectly content initiating things. But if I initiate things, it's as if I'm a complete crazy person, and it makes me feel bad. I recognize that my trauma plays a certain part in things (I've been raped and assaulted once walking down the street in broad daylight), but I feel like he's never willing to recognize his own part in this, his own repression and shame around sexuality, his own denialism, his own defensiveness. It always falls to me to apologize for anything sexually upsetting that happens to him because otherwise it feels like our entire relationship is going to fall apart and he is willing to completely break up with me unless I take complete responsibility for our sexual troubles. It's very personally upsetting. Even if I'm trying to do everything he ostensibly wants.
It's embarrassing. We've known each other for over 20 years, we went to the same Christian high school together. His father was the pastor of the church that the school was connected to and his mom was an English teacher there, and then later the headmistress of the school. They were one of the most prestigious families in the small town we grew up in, whereas my family was very poor and abusive. I'm trying to work through this in therapy.
I grew up having to homeschool most of my younger siblings and I didn't have a lot of social interactions growing up, although my family was much more secular. I met X when I was finally allowed to attend school at the age of 17.
We were friends the entire time, but four years before covid we finally started dating and it's always been complicated. We started dating right before Valentine's Day 2020, when he brought me a small cactus but then told me that we couldn't spend time together that day because he had already made plans to go see the theater with his mother. I only feel like this is relevant because of how his background has impacted his future view of relationships and sexuality. It really feels like he truly blows up whenever I bring up anything sexual, which feels restrictive and it makes me feel bad.
He had a strict upbringing and was shamed about sex at every turn, but I feel like he is in denial and defensive about how this guilt has affected our intimacy. He blames me a lot of the time. Sometimes I feel gaslit because he will tend to bring up my past sexual trauma in conversations in terms of how we've fought about sex, and how my trauma is responsible for our fights, and I feel like so much of the conversations about trauma are just a way for him to deflect, for him to feel better about his place in this, instead of addressing real issues regarding his repression and defensiveness.
I would hope that someone could give me some insight or guidance or anything about this? I truly feel lost. To paraphrase Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, perhaps, when things are good between us, they are very very good, but when things are bad, they are horrid. And he truly is a good person, but I think in terms of his own sexuality, he is lost. I'm tired of this being an issue in our relationship, I'm tired of this being my fault, and I'm tired of the burden of it falling on me, or that I have to always take full responsibility for it. I'm tired of everything feeling like it's all my fault. I would really appreciate any guidance on this if you have any to offer.
I'm not perfect in all of this, obviously, because there have been times where we've tried to discuss this and I feel like I've just gotten so frustrated and angry that I've started getting truly upset and, in his words, yelling, which I definitely don't want to do. I personally don't feel like I've yelled, but he can't handle anyone raising their voice even slightly or expressing any anger at all. Expressing anger around him is the ultimate turnoff, even though he feels allowed to do it occasionally.
I'm in therapy, but this still puzzles me. I know that I might have not expressed this clearly, but I would so truly appreciate any advice or guidance or insight that anyone has about this. Thank you so much, truly.
He wants to be more submissive, he has a lot of fetishes, and I've always been willing to commit to these things, even if they weren't necessarily things that I wanted. But sometimes when I bring up things that he has told me he wants, mostly to make him happy, he freaks out. He freaks out often when I bring up anything sexual, even though he is perfectly content initiating things. But if I initiate things, it's as if I'm a complete crazy person, and it makes me feel bad. I recognize that my trauma plays a certain part in things (I've been raped and assaulted once walking down the street in broad daylight), but I feel like he's never willing to recognize his own part in this, his own repression and shame around sexuality, his own denialism, his own defensiveness. It always falls to me to apologize for anything sexually upsetting that happens to him because otherwise it feels like our entire relationship is going to fall apart and he is willing to completely break up with me unless I take complete responsibility for our sexual troubles. It's very personally upsetting. Even if I'm trying to do everything he ostensibly wants.
It's embarrassing. We've known each other for over 20 years, we went to the same Christian high school together. His father was the pastor of the church that the school was connected to and his mom was an English teacher there, and then later the headmistress of the school. They were one of the most prestigious families in the small town we grew up in, whereas my family was very poor and abusive. I'm trying to work through this in therapy.
I grew up having to homeschool most of my younger siblings and I didn't have a lot of social interactions growing up, although my family was much more secular. I met X when I was finally allowed to attend school at the age of 17.
We were friends the entire time, but four years before covid we finally started dating and it's always been complicated. We started dating right before Valentine's Day 2020, when he brought me a small cactus but then told me that we couldn't spend time together that day because he had already made plans to go see the theater with his mother. I only feel like this is relevant because of how his background has impacted his future view of relationships and sexuality. It really feels like he truly blows up whenever I bring up anything sexual, which feels restrictive and it makes me feel bad.
He had a strict upbringing and was shamed about sex at every turn, but I feel like he is in denial and defensive about how this guilt has affected our intimacy. He blames me a lot of the time. Sometimes I feel gaslit because he will tend to bring up my past sexual trauma in conversations in terms of how we've fought about sex, and how my trauma is responsible for our fights, and I feel like so much of the conversations about trauma are just a way for him to deflect, for him to feel better about his place in this, instead of addressing real issues regarding his repression and defensiveness.
I would hope that someone could give me some insight or guidance or anything about this? I truly feel lost. To paraphrase Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, perhaps, when things are good between us, they are very very good, but when things are bad, they are horrid. And he truly is a good person, but I think in terms of his own sexuality, he is lost. I'm tired of this being an issue in our relationship, I'm tired of this being my fault, and I'm tired of the burden of it falling on me, or that I have to always take full responsibility for it. I'm tired of everything feeling like it's all my fault. I would really appreciate any guidance on this if you have any to offer.
I'm not perfect in all of this, obviously, because there have been times where we've tried to discuss this and I feel like I've just gotten so frustrated and angry that I've started getting truly upset and, in his words, yelling, which I definitely don't want to do. I personally don't feel like I've yelled, but he can't handle anyone raising their voice even slightly or expressing any anger at all. Expressing anger around him is the ultimate turnoff, even though he feels allowed to do it occasionally.
I'm in therapy, but this still puzzles me. I know that I might have not expressed this clearly, but I would so truly appreciate any advice or guidance or insight that anyone has about this. Thank you so much, truly.
when things are good between us, they are very very good, but when things are bad, they are horrid. And he truly is a good person, but I think in terms of his own sexuality, he is lost. I'm tired of this being an issue in our relationship, I'm tired of this being my fault, and I'm tired of the burden of it falling on me, or that I have to always take full responsibility for it. I'm tired of everything feeling like it's all my fault. I would really appreciate any guidance on this if you have any to offer.This sounds miserable. You sound frustrated and rightfully so. I think from what you’ve described, he has a lot of baggage he needs to work through, but he isn’t willing to do it, and worse yet, he’s putting all the responsibility and blame on you. That’s no way to live.
The issue isn’t really his hangups around sexuality; it’s the fact that he can’t or won’t take responsibility for his own issues, no matter what they are. This isn’t someone you want to be with long term. It’s making you feel awful and he is not doing anything to try and improve the situation. In fact, he’s turning around and making everything seem like it’s your fault so he doesn’t have to work on himself.
This situation isn’t going to improve unless he gets some help, but he won’t even admit there’s a problem with himself, so—it’s not going to improve. You deserve better than that. If I were you, I would break up with him and be clear about why. Then go no contact to allow yourself to heal and then when you are ready for a relationship again, find someone who will not always make you feel like everything is your fault.
You don’t need the other person to be a monster to break up with them. They can be a mostly good person and you can still break up with them if they are making you miserable and refusing to acknowledge that they are part of the problem.
On preview: what Zumbador said.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 9:14 PM on August 24
Well, I am not a counselor by any stretch of the imagination, but perhaps if I repeat back what I think you wrote in simpler terms in might be a start. He is a PK (Preacher's Kid) and you are someone going through counseling. It appears that you are two North Pole magnets pointing at each other, everything is fine as long as one of you plays the South Pole role. This is just a graphic way of saying that you may not be compatible (which is your question and cry for help).
The other salient point seems to be that only one of you is in counseling. Also, an adult discussion of sexual topics does not seem to be possible (you say because of his repression and shame, leading to denial land defensiveness). Without the ability to have an adult discussion your relationship seems impractical at best and damaging at worst. I understand you have known each other for decades but that is familiarity, not compatibility.
On preview, what Zumbador said seems wise and directly to the point of your dilemma.
posted by forthright at 9:18 PM on August 24
The other salient point seems to be that only one of you is in counseling. Also, an adult discussion of sexual topics does not seem to be possible (you say because of his repression and shame, leading to denial land defensiveness). Without the ability to have an adult discussion your relationship seems impractical at best and damaging at worst. I understand you have known each other for decades but that is familiarity, not compatibility.
On preview, what Zumbador said seems wise and directly to the point of your dilemma.
posted by forthright at 9:18 PM on August 24
This doesn't sound like a good or fun relationship. Relationships are supposed to be fun. Sex is supposed to be intimate, and relaxing, and nice. Let this person go with your well wishes and preserve your peace.
posted by shadygrove at 9:18 PM on August 24
posted by shadygrove at 9:18 PM on August 24
Like all relationships, this is a muddle (that's not the fault of your well-written question). May I suggest one possible bright line you could draw?
It's not fair for him to bring up your past sexual trauma. What would happen if you simply said "this isn't about me" or "please leave that out of it" or "that's not your history to process" when he tried to bring in your trauma? To me, that's one hundred percent out of bounds -- he simply cannot bring it up -- it's not his and he doesn't get to say how he thinks it's impacting things. Certainly not in the middle of a fight. Even if it were true, which it doesn't seem to be, that wouldn't be the appropriate way to discuss it. Using someone's past trauma to blame them for a current conflict is wrong in all kinds of ways. I think it might be nice to tell him that from now on he's not allowed to use that against you and start ending discussions when he does.
I do agree with others that the best course could be to move on, but if you stay, I hope you can find a way to draw a line about him not being allowed to talk to you certain ways. I find it disturbing that he wants to bring that up. He's free to say "I want you to treat me / not treat me" in a certain way. He doesn't get the right to speculate about your trauma and healing in an accusatory manner. You deserve more respect than that.
posted by slidell at 9:39 PM on August 24
It's not fair for him to bring up your past sexual trauma. What would happen if you simply said "this isn't about me" or "please leave that out of it" or "that's not your history to process" when he tried to bring in your trauma? To me, that's one hundred percent out of bounds -- he simply cannot bring it up -- it's not his and he doesn't get to say how he thinks it's impacting things. Certainly not in the middle of a fight. Even if it were true, which it doesn't seem to be, that wouldn't be the appropriate way to discuss it. Using someone's past trauma to blame them for a current conflict is wrong in all kinds of ways. I think it might be nice to tell him that from now on he's not allowed to use that against you and start ending discussions when he does.
I do agree with others that the best course could be to move on, but if you stay, I hope you can find a way to draw a line about him not being allowed to talk to you certain ways. I find it disturbing that he wants to bring that up. He's free to say "I want you to treat me / not treat me" in a certain way. He doesn't get the right to speculate about your trauma and healing in an accusatory manner. You deserve more respect than that.
posted by slidell at 9:39 PM on August 24
It sounds like you both endured some pretty difficult childhoods and have a lot to work through. You both also sound young and like this might be the first serious relationship for both of you (started dating at 21), so maybe don't have a lot of experience setting boundaries, communicating expectations, working through conflict, all things that can take years to learn how to do well for anyone.
For some perspective, in a healthy relationship when there is conflict, mature people are both able to acknowledge their role, how their behaviors contribute to arguments, and make an effort to sincerely address things going forward. That's clearly not happening here. You are correct to think this dynamic is wrong and unfair.
Honestly very few first serious relationships stand the test of time and you're too young to be stuck in something that's a painful slog. You have a lot of life and opportunity ahead of you and you absolutely do not need to stick around for blaming and shaming.
I'm glad you're getting therapy. I think your therapy will be much more successful once you have moved on from this relationship. You need time and space to know yourself separately from this unhealthy dynamic. That will put you in a much better place for your next, much better relationship.
posted by brookeb at 9:40 PM on August 24
For some perspective, in a healthy relationship when there is conflict, mature people are both able to acknowledge their role, how their behaviors contribute to arguments, and make an effort to sincerely address things going forward. That's clearly not happening here. You are correct to think this dynamic is wrong and unfair.
Honestly very few first serious relationships stand the test of time and you're too young to be stuck in something that's a painful slog. You have a lot of life and opportunity ahead of you and you absolutely do not need to stick around for blaming and shaming.
I'm glad you're getting therapy. I think your therapy will be much more successful once you have moved on from this relationship. You need time and space to know yourself separately from this unhealthy dynamic. That will put you in a much better place for your next, much better relationship.
posted by brookeb at 9:40 PM on August 24
>I'm tired of this being an issue in our relationship, I'm tired of this being my fault, and I'm tired of the burden of it falling on me, or that I have to always take full responsibility for it. I'm tired of everything feeling like it's all my fault. I would really appreciate any guidance on this if you have any to offer.
This sounds awful and I'm sorry it's happening. Please save yourself and break up with him. It may feel shitty for a while afterwards, or maybe not, but you will feel a million times lighter once you don't have to put up with this abuse anymore. Yes I'm calling it abuse. What do you think is keeping you in this relationship? Do you feel like if you do this one weird trick it'll make it all better? Do you feel like you have to try everything before you can end it? Or are you scared to leave? If so, please call a domestic violence hotline to get help getting out safely.
I wanna reiterate what hurdy gurdy girl said: This isn’t someone you want to be with long term. What he's doing is not okay and it could get worse. Don't stick around to find out if it will. Please get out.
posted by foxjacket at 10:02 PM on August 24
This sounds awful and I'm sorry it's happening. Please save yourself and break up with him. It may feel shitty for a while afterwards, or maybe not, but you will feel a million times lighter once you don't have to put up with this abuse anymore. Yes I'm calling it abuse. What do you think is keeping you in this relationship? Do you feel like if you do this one weird trick it'll make it all better? Do you feel like you have to try everything before you can end it? Or are you scared to leave? If so, please call a domestic violence hotline to get help getting out safely.
I wanna reiterate what hurdy gurdy girl said: This isn’t someone you want to be with long term. What he's doing is not okay and it could get worse. Don't stick around to find out if it will. Please get out.
posted by foxjacket at 10:02 PM on August 24
He has desires he was taught to be ashamed of. In the moment, he's ready to have them gratified by you, but afterwards you become the objective representation of those evil desires and attacking you is his way of distancing himself from them.
Obviously, I can't completely guarantee that that's what's going on, but, given what you've shared about your circumstances, the whole dynamic sounds very familiar. It's also not a great sign that he keeps bringing up your sexual trauma--he may be wrestling with a feeling that because you were sexually assaulted you're "damaged goods" at best. (I'm sorry even to say this, but it's a horribly common way of thinking among evangelicals.) If this is all the case, you really can't fix it and you unfortunately need to move on. His upbringing has damaged him in a very sad way, one that is probably going to haunt his relationships until he's able to get some perspective. That will probably take years. You can't unlearn overnight what you heard your whole childhood.
I'm sorry. But there are plenty of men out there, even at a relatively young age, who are able to do kinky stuff and still look at you with love and respect in the morning.
posted by praemunire at 10:34 PM on August 24
Obviously, I can't completely guarantee that that's what's going on, but, given what you've shared about your circumstances, the whole dynamic sounds very familiar. It's also not a great sign that he keeps bringing up your sexual trauma--he may be wrestling with a feeling that because you were sexually assaulted you're "damaged goods" at best. (I'm sorry even to say this, but it's a horribly common way of thinking among evangelicals.) If this is all the case, you really can't fix it and you unfortunately need to move on. His upbringing has damaged him in a very sad way, one that is probably going to haunt his relationships until he's able to get some perspective. That will probably take years. You can't unlearn overnight what you heard your whole childhood.
I'm sorry. But there are plenty of men out there, even at a relatively young age, who are able to do kinky stuff and still look at you with love and respect in the morning.
posted by praemunire at 10:34 PM on August 24
He doesn't want to talk about sex, and doesn't want you to talk about sex... but has managed to communicate his many fetishes and preferences, including how he's the one to initiate sex. Whenever you try advocate for yourself or your desires, he punishes you.
This is a guy only interested in getting his own needs met, and he's going about it in a really mean way. That's not quality significant-other material. You, on the other hand, sound caring, thoughtful, and empathetic. I don't think you're compatible with him, and it's not because there's something you're doing, or phrasing, or approaching in the wrong way. You can't fix the relationship (as it's shared between two people, and he doesn't want to), or him (he's a sovereign human being — you cannot "fix" other people).
He's selfish and unkind. He's not for you, nor the one for you. [His first romantic gesture, years ago, was a cactus; if this were a novel, that tiny detail would appear in countless sophomore English papers.] How are you going to fall for someone of your caliber, when you're focusing so much energy on a boyfriend dedicated to making you feel small?
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:20 AM on August 25
This is a guy only interested in getting his own needs met, and he's going about it in a really mean way. That's not quality significant-other material. You, on the other hand, sound caring, thoughtful, and empathetic. I don't think you're compatible with him, and it's not because there's something you're doing, or phrasing, or approaching in the wrong way. You can't fix the relationship (as it's shared between two people, and he doesn't want to), or him (he's a sovereign human being — you cannot "fix" other people).
He's selfish and unkind. He's not for you, nor the one for you. [His first romantic gesture, years ago, was a cactus; if this were a novel, that tiny detail would appear in countless sophomore English papers.] How are you going to fall for someone of your caliber, when you're focusing so much energy on a boyfriend dedicated to making you feel small?
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:20 AM on August 25
Is he also in therapy and pursuing his own methods of trauma processing? I guarantee that there are way more things with his family and upbringing that need unpacking other than sexual shame. I could see that, given your very long friendship, there might be some possibility that he could learn to listen to you and you could both grow into the relationship together. However, if he refuses to consider therapy, doesn’t think anything he does is wrong, and is unaware that his continued enmeshment with his family as-is is likely unsustainable if he really wants to respect and care for you as you deserve, then there is no potential for a long term relationship between you two.
You both deserve better. He deserves space and time to build his own sense of self and confidence as an adult, without bringing another person into the mix. You deserve someone who does not use your trauma against you, or make you feel shame for any reason. You are an eloquent and clear writer, willing to take risks in the bedroom, and are actively working on your own mental stumbling blocks. Someone who is more sexually compatible with you, who will not freak out or make you feel judged, who is more self aware, (and while we’re at it, someone who is very attractive!) is out there.
posted by Mizu at 1:26 AM on August 25
You both deserve better. He deserves space and time to build his own sense of self and confidence as an adult, without bringing another person into the mix. You deserve someone who does not use your trauma against you, or make you feel shame for any reason. You are an eloquent and clear writer, willing to take risks in the bedroom, and are actively working on your own mental stumbling blocks. Someone who is more sexually compatible with you, who will not freak out or make you feel judged, who is more self aware, (and while we’re at it, someone who is very attractive!) is out there.
posted by Mizu at 1:26 AM on August 25
Valentine's Day 2020, when he brought me a small cactus but then told me that we couldn't spend time together that day because he had already made plans to go see the theater with his mother
Oh no I'm so sorry, but this made me laugh. A gift as dry as your romance.
I've dated repressed Christian men before; this does not get better, especially as it sounds like he's a well grown at this point. It's not going to get better, I'm sorry.
The good news is that I have on very good experience that about a month after you break up with this guy you are going to feel the happiest and most free you have ever felt, it will almost be euphoric.
posted by phunniemee at 3:46 AM on August 25
Oh no I'm so sorry, but this made me laugh. A gift as dry as your romance.
I've dated repressed Christian men before; this does not get better, especially as it sounds like he's a well grown at this point. It's not going to get better, I'm sorry.
The good news is that I have on very good experience that about a month after you break up with this guy you are going to feel the happiest and most free you have ever felt, it will almost be euphoric.
posted by phunniemee at 3:46 AM on August 25
“Sometimes I feel gaslit because he will tend to bring up my past sexual trauma in conversations in terms of how we've fought about sex, and how my trauma is responsible for our fights[.]”
WTF is this dude’s problem? Look, I’m a member of Metafilter, which means I’m a world class over-thinker. But there comes a time where there is no point agonising and trying to see things from all angles, because some issues are just a dealbreaker. Bringing up your trauma and blaming them for your fights is one of them — period. Instead of…you know…supporting you?
Do you realise how crazy this situation sounds? If you were my girl friend, I’d be shaking you by the shoulders. You are worth so much more, don’t let him erode your self-worth like this. He hit the jackpot finding someone like you who’ll go along with his “Fetishes and sexual desires for me, but not for thee” bullshit. You deserve way better than this!
posted by primavera_f at 3:50 AM on August 25
WTF is this dude’s problem? Look, I’m a member of Metafilter, which means I’m a world class over-thinker. But there comes a time where there is no point agonising and trying to see things from all angles, because some issues are just a dealbreaker. Bringing up your trauma and blaming them for your fights is one of them — period. Instead of…you know…supporting you?
Do you realise how crazy this situation sounds? If you were my girl friend, I’d be shaking you by the shoulders. You are worth so much more, don’t let him erode your self-worth like this. He hit the jackpot finding someone like you who’ll go along with his “Fetishes and sexual desires for me, but not for thee” bullshit. You deserve way better than this!
posted by primavera_f at 3:50 AM on August 25
He wants to be more submissive, he has a lot of fetishes, and I've always been willing to commit to these things, even if they weren't necessarily things that I wanted. But sometimes when I bring up things that he has told me he wants, mostly to make him happy, he freaks out. He freaks out often when I bring up anything sexual, even though he is perfectly content initiating things. But if I initiate things, it's as if I'm a complete crazy person, and it makes me feel bad.
I think I get the gist.
Yeah, so he only finds those things sexy when he's *horny*, and finds them disgusting/shameful and doesn't want them when he's not.
Everything everyone said above, as in, yes, this is probably not worth the effort.
But, the fundamental coping tactic if you *do* want to cope with it, is basically, to consider anything he says when horny as meaningless dirty talk, only to be brought up when he's horny. Only stuff he brings up when he's not horny is stuff he wants to be considered 'real'.
This means you don't get to initiate sex, even tho he said he wanted to be submissive, because he's not horny yet. Unless you figure out how to get him in the mood first, and then play act the things he already asked for. 🤦🏻♀️
And urgh, save us from the pure entitlement of amab men who *think* they want to be 'submissive', but it is 100% only on their terms. They don't want to be submissive, they want you to be a doll who playacts exactly the fantasy they have designed. I've met several top pro/paid Dominatrixes who have told me they're actually submissives, but that the tricky bit of their profession is figuring out *exactly* what the client wants without being direct, then roleplaying what the male client wants - see, the clients don't want an actual Dominant woman who had her own desires, and has control over the situation, y'know? It has to be an illusion, and they need to actually have the control.
You'll ironically have an easier time if you just treat all his horny requests much much much less seriously. Could try going to actual bdsm meetups, if he can get comfortable talking with other people about what he wants, he might actually want it, but I doubt he'd be able to do anything that healthy
posted by Elysum at 4:57 AM on August 25
I think I get the gist.
Yeah, so he only finds those things sexy when he's *horny*, and finds them disgusting/shameful and doesn't want them when he's not.
Everything everyone said above, as in, yes, this is probably not worth the effort.
But, the fundamental coping tactic if you *do* want to cope with it, is basically, to consider anything he says when horny as meaningless dirty talk, only to be brought up when he's horny. Only stuff he brings up when he's not horny is stuff he wants to be considered 'real'.
This means you don't get to initiate sex, even tho he said he wanted to be submissive, because he's not horny yet. Unless you figure out how to get him in the mood first, and then play act the things he already asked for. 🤦🏻♀️
And urgh, save us from the pure entitlement of amab men who *think* they want to be 'submissive', but it is 100% only on their terms. They don't want to be submissive, they want you to be a doll who playacts exactly the fantasy they have designed. I've met several top pro/paid Dominatrixes who have told me they're actually submissives, but that the tricky bit of their profession is figuring out *exactly* what the client wants without being direct, then roleplaying what the male client wants - see, the clients don't want an actual Dominant woman who had her own desires, and has control over the situation, y'know? It has to be an illusion, and they need to actually have the control.
You'll ironically have an easier time if you just treat all his horny requests much much much less seriously. Could try going to actual bdsm meetups, if he can get comfortable talking with other people about what he wants, he might actually want it, but I doubt he'd be able to do anything that healthy
posted by Elysum at 4:57 AM on August 25
And he truly is a good person
But that's not enough. Men shouldn't be handed relationships simply as a reward for not being full-time terrible people. He's not capable of being a healthy partner in a healthy relationship at this time in his life. And, let's be really honest since you're trying to be honest with yourself here: the blaming and the using you as his fault board because he's too immature to handle or process his own feelings, that's a form of misogyny. It's a kind of dirty work they consider themselves above (and have generally been trained from birth to believe that), and they want their personal handmaiden to handle all their feelings - including pants feelings - for them. You have to kind of dislike someone to think that's their job, or at least you have to think of them more like a servant than an equal.
And it feels like part of his complaint is that you don't do that job well enough.
I will suggest you try the thought experiment in which a woman you care a lot about told you this was happening to her. What would you say, and more importantly what would you think? What would you tell her?
And I want to offer you a perspective that is arriving a little late to therapeutic understanding but is, thank goodness, finally getting understood: when parents have an intensive fixation on sexual shaming, so that they frequently have sexualized interactions with their children, that is Childhood Sexual Abuse. Just because it's framed in "don't" language, it's still...well, it's dirty talk, isn't it? You're a nasty little whatever, you're baaaad, you should be punished. And this kind of abuse rarely actually stays in the realm of only talk (even though that alone is 100% "bad enough" to be abuse) - it generally escalates to other boundary violations, which might be really straightforward like if you wrote them out on paper any mandatory reporter would immediately take action, but some of them are so wrapped in layers of religious abuse that even a really good therapist might miss the sexual component at first.
And while yes, technically, that can become a "fetish" in the DSM sense rather than the consenting-adults-interacting sense, please take three steps back and consider whether you really think it's appropriate to participate in reenactments of someone's abuse. Putting aside the misogyny that his parents installed probably both inside and outside the inappropriate sexual relationship they were having with him, the reason he's so immature about sex and becomes so incredibly dysregulated when you don't provide him with the exact sexual experience he can theoretically deal with is because of his sexual abuse.
Which is where you have to ask yourself: is this even consent? CAN someone consent in an enthusiastic and informed adult way when they've had their boundaries completely shredded by a parent, particularly in sexual acts that echo what was done to them or the sexual sense of self they developed in that environment? If you think forward, let's say he spent the next 3 years in intensive therapy repairing the worst of this damage, when he looks back on your sexual interactions is he going to wonder why you were so willing to participate? Are you?
If the genders were reversed so that you were a man and he was a woman who grew up in an inappropriate sexual relationship with her parents/father, how would you feel about the sex?
If he was willing to think about this without blaming you and immediately defensively bringing up your trauma, there might be a path forward at least for a while, for him to get some help. It's likely y'all would split up eventually because the well is pretty poisoned. It's up to you to decide what you want to do with whatever time this relationship has left - it's not sustainable like this - but I think something you should consider discussing in therapy is the difference between being lovingly accepting of a partner's sexual needs (while being allowed to have boundaries of your own) and participating in an unhealthy dynamic.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:54 AM on August 25
But that's not enough. Men shouldn't be handed relationships simply as a reward for not being full-time terrible people. He's not capable of being a healthy partner in a healthy relationship at this time in his life. And, let's be really honest since you're trying to be honest with yourself here: the blaming and the using you as his fault board because he's too immature to handle or process his own feelings, that's a form of misogyny. It's a kind of dirty work they consider themselves above (and have generally been trained from birth to believe that), and they want their personal handmaiden to handle all their feelings - including pants feelings - for them. You have to kind of dislike someone to think that's their job, or at least you have to think of them more like a servant than an equal.
And it feels like part of his complaint is that you don't do that job well enough.
I will suggest you try the thought experiment in which a woman you care a lot about told you this was happening to her. What would you say, and more importantly what would you think? What would you tell her?
And I want to offer you a perspective that is arriving a little late to therapeutic understanding but is, thank goodness, finally getting understood: when parents have an intensive fixation on sexual shaming, so that they frequently have sexualized interactions with their children, that is Childhood Sexual Abuse. Just because it's framed in "don't" language, it's still...well, it's dirty talk, isn't it? You're a nasty little whatever, you're baaaad, you should be punished. And this kind of abuse rarely actually stays in the realm of only talk (even though that alone is 100% "bad enough" to be abuse) - it generally escalates to other boundary violations, which might be really straightforward like if you wrote them out on paper any mandatory reporter would immediately take action, but some of them are so wrapped in layers of religious abuse that even a really good therapist might miss the sexual component at first.
And while yes, technically, that can become a "fetish" in the DSM sense rather than the consenting-adults-interacting sense, please take three steps back and consider whether you really think it's appropriate to participate in reenactments of someone's abuse. Putting aside the misogyny that his parents installed probably both inside and outside the inappropriate sexual relationship they were having with him, the reason he's so immature about sex and becomes so incredibly dysregulated when you don't provide him with the exact sexual experience he can theoretically deal with is because of his sexual abuse.
Which is where you have to ask yourself: is this even consent? CAN someone consent in an enthusiastic and informed adult way when they've had their boundaries completely shredded by a parent, particularly in sexual acts that echo what was done to them or the sexual sense of self they developed in that environment? If you think forward, let's say he spent the next 3 years in intensive therapy repairing the worst of this damage, when he looks back on your sexual interactions is he going to wonder why you were so willing to participate? Are you?
If the genders were reversed so that you were a man and he was a woman who grew up in an inappropriate sexual relationship with her parents/father, how would you feel about the sex?
If he was willing to think about this without blaming you and immediately defensively bringing up your trauma, there might be a path forward at least for a while, for him to get some help. It's likely y'all would split up eventually because the well is pretty poisoned. It's up to you to decide what you want to do with whatever time this relationship has left - it's not sustainable like this - but I think something you should consider discussing in therapy is the difference between being lovingly accepting of a partner's sexual needs (while being allowed to have boundaries of your own) and participating in an unhealthy dynamic.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:54 AM on August 25
This is the sort of thing that *might* be something two people, as *partners*, working *together*, might find ways through and past. But it sounds like you're the only one willing to do the work and have the conversations and make the changes, and that's not sustainable. It's not partnership.
You deserve a partner who sees both of you as being on the same team addressing a shared problem together, and it sounds like you don't have one. You deserve better and I don't think this relationship is where you'll find it. I'm so sorry.
posted by Stacey at 7:00 AM on August 25
You deserve a partner who sees both of you as being on the same team addressing a shared problem together, and it sounds like you don't have one. You deserve better and I don't think this relationship is where you'll find it. I'm so sorry.
posted by Stacey at 7:00 AM on August 25
I feel so, so old and jaded saying this, but: dating is a screening process for suitability, not a binding commitment. It doesn't sound like you have children together; relationships should not be this hard. This is almost certainly only going to compound over time, and even if you can somehow brute force it to get better, that may not be worth your effort. It is kind to both of you to end things. Even if it is very hard and upsetting to do so, and especially if you are staying because you think he can address his issues eventually, consider that he may be comfortable enough to not do so, and perhaps the loss of you would be the push he needed. But either way, you are not someone's emotional support animal and this sort of thing is precisely why people date before marrying - to determine suitability.
posted by bowtiesarecool at 2:50 PM on August 25
posted by bowtiesarecool at 2:50 PM on August 25
He blames me a lot of the time. Sometimes I feel gaslit because he will tend to bring up my past sexual trauma in conversations in terms of how we've fought about sex, and how my trauma is responsible for our fights
Then he won't be too upset when you say "I am sorry for the problems my trauma and I have caused you; goodbye."
It does not matter whose trauma "is responsible" for a fight. (Nor whose personality is responsible, nor whose bad day, illness, job situation, or whatever, is responsible.) Relationships are not a game where the person with the moral high ground "wins." (Nevermind whether anyone actually has the moral high ground here. The point is - even if he does, so what? The arguments are not easier on either of you because of that. You do not owe him your misery if he is a "better person.")
What matters is whether the people involved are willing to make changes so they don't have those fights in the future. It does not sound like he is willing to make changes, and you have made all the changes you think are reasonable.
You're still having fights. It is not your job to avoid fighting by agreeing that he must always be right, nor to keep changing until he is happy with the person you have become. If he is not willing to put effort towards what will make you happy - then you make what changes you are willing to, and if it's not working at that point, you leave.
he is willing to completely break up with me unless I take complete responsibility for our sexual troubles
He is basically saying, "I am content with the status quo. I like who I am just fine; if you don't like it, you can leave."
Take the out. Sexual troubles are NEVER one person's complete responsibility. There is no such thing as "he is compatible with me but I am not compatible with him." That just means, "He is compatible with the idea of me that he has in his head."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 6:21 PM on August 25
Then he won't be too upset when you say "I am sorry for the problems my trauma and I have caused you; goodbye."
It does not matter whose trauma "is responsible" for a fight. (Nor whose personality is responsible, nor whose bad day, illness, job situation, or whatever, is responsible.) Relationships are not a game where the person with the moral high ground "wins." (Nevermind whether anyone actually has the moral high ground here. The point is - even if he does, so what? The arguments are not easier on either of you because of that. You do not owe him your misery if he is a "better person.")
What matters is whether the people involved are willing to make changes so they don't have those fights in the future. It does not sound like he is willing to make changes, and you have made all the changes you think are reasonable.
You're still having fights. It is not your job to avoid fighting by agreeing that he must always be right, nor to keep changing until he is happy with the person you have become. If he is not willing to put effort towards what will make you happy - then you make what changes you are willing to, and if it's not working at that point, you leave.
he is willing to completely break up with me unless I take complete responsibility for our sexual troubles
He is basically saying, "I am content with the status quo. I like who I am just fine; if you don't like it, you can leave."
Take the out. Sexual troubles are NEVER one person's complete responsibility. There is no such thing as "he is compatible with me but I am not compatible with him." That just means, "He is compatible with the idea of me that he has in his head."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 6:21 PM on August 25
it's never too early to leave the wrong relationship.
posted by j_curiouser at 9:14 PM on August 25
posted by j_curiouser at 9:14 PM on August 25
Take the out.
But be prepared--when you say as you head out the door, "Okay, then, bro, best of luck in your future endeavors," he's probably going to tell you he wasn't serious, and how could you leave him over a joke, &c.
posted by praemunire at 11:34 AM on August 26
But be prepared--when you say as you head out the door, "Okay, then, bro, best of luck in your future endeavors," he's probably going to tell you he wasn't serious, and how could you leave him over a joke, &c.
posted by praemunire at 11:34 AM on August 26
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In case you need to hear this: this amount of unhappiness and pain is not part of a healthy relationship. You are being emotionally manipulated and abused. Everything you have observed so keenly here is accurate. He is using you to lessen his own pain, to deflect his responsibility to face what's wrong with his own life.
You can't fix him. No human can fix another human, we can only support one another in our attempts to work on ourselves. Your boyfriend is not working on himself.
You deserve to feel safe. Whether that's because of being with someone who values you for who you are, or just being single and not with someone who is corroding your sense of self worth.
You have the right to feel whatever you are feeling, you don't need him to decide whether those feelings are valid or not.
Do you have any friends or family who can help you get out of this relationship?
posted by Zumbador at 9:12 PM on August 24