Boston Law School Filter

May 10, 2006 11:10 AM

Tell me about law schools in Boston.

I've done the research. I've read the guides (ABA, Princeton Review) — and I've lived in Boston my whole life, so I wasn't starting from scratch. I know that if you want a career in politics, you start with Boston College; if you want a firm job, Boston University can set you up; if you plan for trial work, you'll meet your colleagues at Suffolk; and if you can't get admitted anywhere else, you can settle for New England School of Law.

I already have a good idea about my list; but if there's anyone on AskMe who can offer insight or personal experience, I'd be foolish not to listen. Assume that you're talking to someone who has a snowball's chance at Harvard but who stands a reasonable shot at any of the remaining five. I'd appreciate anything you can tell me, from firsthand insight to secondhand feedback. Thanks in advance.

For reference, here are Boston's six ABA-approved law schools:

• Harvard Law School
• Boston College Law School
• Boston University School of Law
• Northeastern University School of Law
• Suffolk University Law School
• New England School of Law

posted by cribcage to law & government (13 answers total)

Everything's grabbing at straws until you tell us what your LSAT and GPA are.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 11:17 AM on May 10, 2006

But until then...
The stereotypes you have heard about each school have a grain of truth, though I'm not sure why you have heard that BC is the place to go if you want a career in politics. (Not a whole lot of people go into politics as a field.) BU and BC both have fairly equivalent (i.e. good) reputations; one usually leapfrogs over the other in the rankings every few years. BU is currently on top, but that wasn't the case a few years ago.

Northeastern is a good school but very avant-garde in its merit system; you don't get letter grades and there's no law journal. They encourage (require?) students to spend entire semesters away from the classroom in co-op progams with judges, prosecutors, local firms, etc.

Suffolk is also a good school that tends to be screwed by the US news rankings. Gorgeous building though, great location near the common and the Park St. T.

Don't think that you are tied to law schools in Boston if you want to take the Mass. bar or work in Boston. I'm exhibit H to the contrary from the public law school in the state down and to the left.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 11:28 AM on May 10, 2006

I'm not specifically looking for advice on where to apply; I'm going to apply to all six, plus Roger Williams and Franklin Pierce. This is something I absolutely want (need) to do; and I'm not getting any younger, so I plan on covering my bases and not leaving anything to chance. One way or another, I'm going to attend law school in 2007.

But since you asked — and it's only fair, if I'm asking others to share information — I'm taking the LSAT on June 12. I'm enrolled in the Kaplan course now, and I'm scoring 170 on practice tests with a month to go. My GPA is 3.14 from Berklee College of Music, where I majored in Jazz Composition.

Like I say, I've done the research and it seems like I've got a reasonable shot at being admitted to each of the five (sans Harvard). At this point, I'm entertaining the best-case scenario where I'm holding five letters of acceptance and need to decide where I'll fit best. I'm planning to study intellectual property, and I absolutely want to be involved with law review (which will be the subject of a future AskMe thread). I already have a preference, I think; but Boston can be an insular town, so I thought it was worth polling a wider audience for its impressions on each school.
posted by cribcage at 11:54 AM on May 10, 2006

All things being equal, no matter what you want to do, you are better off going to the best ranked school you can get into (a function primarily of LSAT and GPA). The only hard choice is deciding between BC and BU since they are somewhat equal in the rankings. The law school world and the law job world are focused on rankings (the ranking of the school you go to and your ranking within that school), for better or worse, so you should be too (even if that means sacrificing scholarships).
posted by Falconetti at 12:01 PM on May 10, 2006

On preview, don't pick a school based on specialty rankings for IP, if you are at all thinking along those lines. IP firms don't care.

Also, don't fall into the trap where you think because you did well on the LSAT, making law review will be easier by going to a lesser ranked school. Everyone is gunning for law review and everyone is hard working.

Even if you are not interested in IP firms, but rather IP work for the government or in some other capacity, a degree from, say, BC, will go much further than a degree from Suffolk.
posted by Falconetti at 12:05 PM on May 10, 2006

True, Falconetti, but rankings are of value nationally, not so much regionally. While you can definitely classify Harvard, BU/BC, NE/Suffolk, and NESL as members of a pecking order among Boston firms, the fact that Northeastern is ranked X and Suffolk is ranked X+20 in a particular year won't mean anything to firms that have longstanding relationships with these schools. "Go to the best school you can get into" is always the right advice, but don't rely exclusively on USNews for what constitutes the best.

cribcage, your 3.14 will hurt you. I don't know how to put it more bluntly than that. I got shut out of BU and BC with 3.3/164, and I too was practicing at 169-170. Sometimes you have a great LSAT day, and sometimes you have a shitty one. They consider +- 5 points to be the standard margin of error.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 12:15 PM on May 10, 2006

BC Law graduate (1999) here. I got into a few other law schools that were higher-ranked, but wanted to stay in Boston, and I'm very glad I did. BCLS had a warm, supportive, engaging atmosphere and faculty, I made fantastic friends there, and although I never practiced law after passing the bar, the way I learned to think about life was absolutely invaluable.

I was on the BCLS International & Comparative Law Review and a founding member of the Intellectual Property & Technology Forum, so feel free to write (e-mail in profile) if you have any specific questions about anything related to those.

I ended up attending some classes and conferences at both BU and Harvard, and I came away each time feeling very thankful I was at BC instead.
posted by picopebbles at 12:24 PM on May 10, 2006

Franklin Pierce grad here. When you say you're interested in IP, are you talking patents or "soft" IP (copyright/trademark)? If patents, Pierce Law would be a good choice, and assuming you do well on the LSAT you shouldn't have much trouble getting in.

If you're talking copyright/trademark, which is what I do (among other things), Pierce might not be ideal. Not to knock my alma mater, but I tend to think the other schools you've mentioned have caught up to it at this point. Pierce seems to be focusing its energies on patent, business and international law these days. It has great relationships with industry, but I'm not sure the faculty is as strong in those areas as it once was.
posted by schoolgirl report at 1:25 PM on May 10, 2006

You should start with the realization that if you should ever leave Boston, BC and BU are the only schools on that list that will be recognized and respected nationally. This will matter if you intend on doing any kind of corporate law, including IP work at a firm.

That being said, my wife went to BC for one semester in 2002 and dropped out because it was so horrible. The people there, especially in her section were intensely competitive and ruthlessly demeaning towarda anyone not in their clique. In class, people would mock whomever was speaking over IM, and my wife literally saw people hiding books in the library during exams so no one else could get them. It reminded me of a stereotyped version of high school hell. (I went on to go to law school elsewhere, and the students at my school were nowhere near as bad. Her BC experience had convinced me that perhaps all law school were like that - not so).

BC is also going to be the most culturally conservative school on that list - it lives up to its Catholic prep school reputation with pride. Some other negatives: the law school is located on BC's Newton Ave campus, which is home to all of BC's undergrad freshman dorms. This tends to be annoying in that study areas are sometimes overrun with them.

To be fair, there are some good positives - first, the faculty is amazing. They are supposidly much nicer to students than BU profs and they are certainly well qualified. The law center campus is also very nice. It's easily much nicer than either Harvard's or BU's facilities, perhaps only Suffolk comes close. Also, BC is well known for its mock trial teams, if that's your thing.

While living in Boston, I did not hear much about BU at all, other than this - unlike what you quote in your question, I heard that BC was the school with the best in-town connections as most BC alumni stayed in Boston working at the large firms. In contrast, BU was supposed ot be better for people who wanted to leave Boston, as it's alumni were more spread out, with an especially strong base in NYC. One other thing I heard about BU - the facilities are awful, but that's true of BU in general.

Northeastern and Suffolk both have very good local reputations. Like you, I've heard that Suffolk is good for those who want to be trial lawyers or DA's. Northeastern is supposed to be a very low stress way of going to law school. I think that there are no grades the first year, and the curriculum stresses outside externships as part of learning the law (which I think is great). Everyone I met from Northeastern really liked going there.
posted by thewittyname at 2:16 PM on May 10, 2006

I applied and was admitted to BU when I was applying to law schools. I basically applied there because I thought it would be cool to go to law school in Boston. I ended up going elsewhere.

I second what thewittyname said. It's been my experience that BU and BC have great national reputations for some reason ... even though they rarely crack the top 20 in law school rankings.

From reading the promotional materials I received when I applied to BU, it appeared that there were tons of Harvard grads enrolled in BU Law. Maybe they were people who applied but couldn't be admitted to Harvard Law. It occurred to me that, with lots of people like that, the atmosphere might be more competitive and intellectually stimulating that BU Law's ranking would suggest.
posted by jayder at 6:01 PM on May 10, 2006

Thanks to all who replied — most especially, thewittyname, for precisely the type of answer I was hoping to elicit. I'll check back periodically; so if any latecomers want to reply, I'll both read and appreciate whatever you write. And depending on how long this thread remains open, I'll try to post a follow-up when I choose a school.
posted by cribcage at 12:11 PM on May 12, 2006

I am currently a 3rd year (last year aka 3L) at Northeastern. Just to clear up the requirements listed above. There are no grades for all 3 years of law school. Period. There are evaluations that gets attached to your transcript. They are approximately 1 page evaluations that your professor writes about your work.

Secondly, the internships (or coops) are required here at NU. For the first year, it is a traditional 2 semester, both of them with full course load. However, the second and third years, the year is broken up into quarters (4 per year), where every other quarter, you're working. The place you intern is up to you. You go on interviews. You apply. You have to get accepted yourself. Contrary to what others have said, this constant change in schedule and lifestyle every 3 months is very taxing.

The advantage of NU that I've come to realize and a lot of friends from other area law schools agree upon is that NU kids, when we graduate, have a lot more experience in being lawyers can any other school in the country. Since we complete 4 internships by the time we graduate, not only have we had experience writing memos, meeting clients, being in court (3:03 certification), actual trial and court appearances, etc . . . we also build a great many more contacts. As we all know, WHO we know is just as important as WHAT we know. What better way to network then to work for someone or to go up against someone in court and let them see how you work.

I have worked with my own clients and had my own caseload on coop before and I have to tell you that it is awesome. I've also represented clients in hearings in state court as well. How many people in the country, that's not even out of law school, can say that?

I would really recommend NU. Being a lawyer is a trade. We learn our skills by doing, not by sitting in a classroom for 3 years.
posted by pikaboy202 at 10:11 PM on December 6, 2006

This thread is going to close today, so this will be my last chance to update. Thanks again to everybody who answered. I can't post my decision yet, but I wanted to drop a last note for future applicants who might find this thread. I know there are a lot of resources available, but AskMe is unique and I hope somebody else finds it helpful.

I ended up visiting 6 different schools to interview with admissions, tour campus, and sit in on classes. I also read all the books — Vault, Princeton Review, ABA, etc. — and based on my experience at the schools, the books are mostly accurate. What they don't convey are things you notice only by spending time on campus: NESL seems a lot like high school, both the building and its atmosphere. Franklin Pierce's facility is kind of shabby; it was the only school that didn't have individual power outlets at the seats, and its top floor seemed more like an attic than office space. On the other hand, its students were very laid-back. Roger Williams's library is mediocre at best; but its students were bright and enthusiastic, more so than at other schools, and its director of career services was very impressive.

If you're reading this thread, you probably found some of the law school forums. I didn't find those helpful, or accurate. Actually, I thought the AutoAdmit scandal was fairly typical: Those forums carry an extreme bias favoring the top-ranked schools, and yet their participants tend to be...well, the last sort of people you'd want as classmates. I spoke to enough people at top-tier schools to know that sample isn't representative. Be forewarned before you consider their advice.

Don't be afraid to ask strangers for help. Most schools' websites list contact information for various student organizations and their officers. I found that law students were eager to answer my questions and tell me about their experiences. Ditto with professionals. It's a big decision and you should try to gather as much information as you can. I found that the decision did become more difficult, the more I learned about each school; but I felt better prepared, and eventually more certain about my final choice.
posted by cribcage at 9:14 AM on May 10, 2007