What non-Boston law schools should I consider if I want to work in Boston after graduation?
May 28, 2008 8:30 AM Subscribe
Law School Filter: What non-Boston schools should I consider if I want to work in Boston after graduation?
Besides BC and BU what other law schools should I consider if I want to work/live in Boston after graduation? I know the obvious answer is another Boston school (Suffolk, Northeastern, New England School of Law), but they all have really weak "employed-at-graduation" and "bar-passage-rate" numbers so I'm not considering them.
If BC/BU don't happen the choice really comes down to lesser-ranked (top-50) programs closer to Boston, or higher-ranked (top-25) programs farther away.
Besides BC and BU what other law schools should I consider if I want to work/live in Boston after graduation? I know the obvious answer is another Boston school (Suffolk, Northeastern, New England School of Law), but they all have really weak "employed-at-graduation" and "bar-passage-rate" numbers so I'm not considering them.
If BC/BU don't happen the choice really comes down to lesser-ranked (top-50) programs closer to Boston, or higher-ranked (top-25) programs farther away.
In my experience, Boston is an incredibly insular market - it's very hard to break into the area unless you go to school there, even if you're coming from highly ranked programs elsewhere. Who knows how the market will look in 4 years, but it's going to be a real uphill battle to get a decent job in Boston out of schools less well regarded than BC and BU, or to get jobs at Boston firms (of all kinds) coming from anywhere outside the truly national law schools. Even at those places it is difficult if your grades aren't, say, in the top half of the class.
Are you from Boston? Do you have other history there? How likely are you to get into BC or BU? Do you have any idea what kind of work you want to do? Do you have prior work experience? Could you spend your summers in Boston during school? Are you there now? There are a lot of other factors that go into employability beyond just the school you go to and the grades you get.
posted by iknowizbirfmark at 8:55 AM on May 28, 2008
Are you from Boston? Do you have other history there? How likely are you to get into BC or BU? Do you have any idea what kind of work you want to do? Do you have prior work experience? Could you spend your summers in Boston during school? Are you there now? There are a lot of other factors that go into employability beyond just the school you go to and the grades you get.
posted by iknowizbirfmark at 8:55 AM on May 28, 2008
Best answer: If you don't go to BC or BU because you didn't make the cut, you're looking at a class of school where it'll be harder to get back to Boston, as iknowizbirfmark said. It's not impossible, though, if you work hard, and make sure you do your summers in Boston. Just be aware that it's more difficult and more of a risk. But this advice, (like most advice about law schools and rankings) really applies only to the medium-to-big corporate firms.
Of course, if you're looking to go into public interest or a government stuff in Boston, the lesser locals won't be nearly as detrimental to you. The only reason they have a low bar-passage rate is because the students getting into them aren't as high caliber. They have a low employment-at-graduation rate for the same reason, combined with the fact that their schools carry less prestige. If you have the ability to get into a better school, but opt to go to a lesser one, you really only need worry about the prestige part (no school actually prepares students for the bar better than any other). The prestige part is real, but government jobs are littered with Suffolk alum, and you can't throw a paper clip without hitting a Northeastern grad at most public interest places there. So if your goal really is "Boston or bust," and your sights aren't set too high, you shouldn't write these places off.
posted by aswego at 9:10 AM on May 28, 2008
Of course, if you're looking to go into public interest or a government stuff in Boston, the lesser locals won't be nearly as detrimental to you. The only reason they have a low bar-passage rate is because the students getting into them aren't as high caliber. They have a low employment-at-graduation rate for the same reason, combined with the fact that their schools carry less prestige. If you have the ability to get into a better school, but opt to go to a lesser one, you really only need worry about the prestige part (no school actually prepares students for the bar better than any other). The prestige part is real, but government jobs are littered with Suffolk alum, and you can't throw a paper clip without hitting a Northeastern grad at most public interest places there. So if your goal really is "Boston or bust," and your sights aren't set too high, you shouldn't write these places off.
posted by aswego at 9:10 AM on May 28, 2008
Response by poster: LSAT in 3 weeks, but I can realistically expect to score in the 166-170 range (inclusive), with 171 being my target score. GPA of 3.6 was lowered to 3.25 when consolidated and weighted by the LSAC so that shuts me out of the top-15 to top-20 schools.
(I've been eating, sleeping and breathing LSAT for the past few months so please no tangential advice on studying, etc...)
posted by doppleradar at 9:11 AM on May 28, 2008
(I've been eating, sleeping and breathing LSAT for the past few months so please no tangential advice on studying, etc...)
posted by doppleradar at 9:11 AM on May 28, 2008
Best answer: Mass. Lawyer's Weekly has a list of the top 100 Mass. firms here:
http://www.masslawyersweekly.com/index.cfm/largestLawfirms/list
I'd start perusing their associate pools to see what schools they're hiring from.
The low bar pass rates at Suffolk and NESL are due to the part-time programs that both schools have. (They are the only two such programs in Boston.) It's less likely that a student will pass the bar on the first try having worked full-time while attending law school and also through bar prep.
Full disclosure: I'm an '07 grad. of Suffolk Law (nights)
posted by smallstatic at 9:32 AM on May 28, 2008
http://www.masslawyersweekly.com/index.cfm/largestLawfirms/list
I'd start perusing their associate pools to see what schools they're hiring from.
The low bar pass rates at Suffolk and NESL are due to the part-time programs that both schools have. (They are the only two such programs in Boston.) It's less likely that a student will pass the bar on the first try having worked full-time while attending law school and also through bar prep.
Full disclosure: I'm an '07 grad. of Suffolk Law (nights)
posted by smallstatic at 9:32 AM on May 28, 2008
"GPA of 3.6 was lowered to 3.25 when consolidated and weighted by the LSAC so that shuts me out of the top-15 to top-20 schools."
Don't be so sure. If you can find a school in the 15-20 range that has a solid median GPA (compared to schools near them) but a weaker LSAT median, they're going to be looking to improve their ranking by bringing in higher LSAT scores, and won't care nearly as much about the GPA.
There's no formula that works for all schools, it has far more to do with what goals the particular schools have, how they plan to accomplish them, and what their applicant pool is like in that given cycle.
This comes from a recent grad who spent three years working in the admissions office at a top tier law school.
posted by toomuchpete at 10:14 AM on May 28, 2008
Don't be so sure. If you can find a school in the 15-20 range that has a solid median GPA (compared to schools near them) but a weaker LSAT median, they're going to be looking to improve their ranking by bringing in higher LSAT scores, and won't care nearly as much about the GPA.
There's no formula that works for all schools, it has far more to do with what goals the particular schools have, how they plan to accomplish them, and what their applicant pool is like in that given cycle.
This comes from a recent grad who spent three years working in the admissions office at a top tier law school.
posted by toomuchpete at 10:14 AM on May 28, 2008
Best answer: BUSL '02. If you want to work in Boston, IMO BC is your best non-Harvard option. True, Suffolk will get you some ins at the State House or Government Center, but you'll have more flexibility overall by going to a higher ranked school. BC places well in private practice and government, and has the added advantage of being a Catholic school in a city that still values Irish Catholic connections (which is why it will help out with networking for government jobs). BU is more of an outsider school, and placed better in NY than in MA when I graduated. Keep in mind that I don't know how things may have changed in the last few years since BU eclipsed BC in the US News rankings.
If you want to work in BIGLAW, take a look at the Choate, Goodwin, Wilmer, Foley, and Bingham web sites and see where the associates come from. Better yet, try to find out where this year's class of summer associates came from. What another poster said about Boston being an insular legal market is true, and my impression is that most people start there rather than lateraling there, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to have gone to law school in Boston. BIGLAW is going to care more about what school you went to and what your grades were than where you went to school (caveat: you might get questions about why you want to work in Boston if you go to a west coast school).
Bottom line: for BIGLAW, school over location; for gov't, location over school, but don't be reckless in your choice of school.
posted by Bezuhin at 10:47 AM on May 28, 2008
If you want to work in BIGLAW, take a look at the Choate, Goodwin, Wilmer, Foley, and Bingham web sites and see where the associates come from. Better yet, try to find out where this year's class of summer associates came from. What another poster said about Boston being an insular legal market is true, and my impression is that most people start there rather than lateraling there, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to have gone to law school in Boston. BIGLAW is going to care more about what school you went to and what your grades were than where you went to school (caveat: you might get questions about why you want to work in Boston if you go to a west coast school).
Bottom line: for BIGLAW, school over location; for gov't, location over school, but don't be reckless in your choice of school.
posted by Bezuhin at 10:47 AM on May 28, 2008
My father is a partner at one of the firms mentioned by Bezuhin (though not in their Boston office) and what he told me about their hiring practices is that they hire from most top schools (in and out of Boston) but the "shelf" is smaller the further you go down in the national rankings--so if you want to work in big law, I'd go to the highest ranking school you can get into, regardless of location. For government work actually being in Boston might matter more.
posted by cosmic osmo at 11:45 AM on May 28, 2008
posted by cosmic osmo at 11:45 AM on May 28, 2008
I completely agree with the other posters who noted that school rank is by far the most determining factor in whether you'll get an offer from the firm of your choice, regardless of location.
posted by smallstatic at 12:18 PM on May 28, 2008
posted by smallstatic at 12:18 PM on May 28, 2008
"GPA of 3.6 was lowered to 3.25 when consolidated and weighted by the LSAC so that shuts me out of the top-15 to top-20 schools."
If you do well (170+) on the LSAT, your GPA won't prevent you from getting into a top-10 school.
posted by gyc at 12:33 PM on May 28, 2008
If you do well (170+) on the LSAT, your GPA won't prevent you from getting into a top-10 school.
posted by gyc at 12:33 PM on May 28, 2008
If you can get top 20 I would do that, 20-25, you'd have to be more specific on which school, but generally you want highest ranked/east coast as your goal. Top 13 and probably top 20 you can easily go anywhere in the country, regardless of the school's location, from there your options dwindle rapidly, but if you can't get top 20 (and god knows I couldn't) you want to be in Boston/NY/Philly/DC. And really the better ranked the better your chances, with a few exceptions, such as a difference of less than 5 in the rankings between a school in CA and a school on the east coast, I would pick the lower ranked east coast school, more than that, or if you are forced to go into the second tier, definitely east coast. Also when choosing among lower ranked schools, I would go for NY or DC without a doubt, you will need to make up for the low ranking with excellent work experience and that's harder to do the farther away you are. (Ex. I have a friend who transferred up to Wash. U St. Louis and regrets it because he didn't have the chance to do federal agency internships, etc etc during the school year like we all did, he just goes to school and besides his summer jobs that's all that is on his resume.)
But really what you want to do is apply far and wide, see where you get in and then make this decision.
posted by whoaali at 1:43 PM on May 28, 2008
But really what you want to do is apply far and wide, see where you get in and then make this decision.
posted by whoaali at 1:43 PM on May 28, 2008
Best answer: I recommend attending the best law school you can, regardless of location. Since you asked for specific schools in the top 25-50, I would consider Notre Dame, Emory, and William and Mary. The top graduates from these schools are recruited and hired by large Boston firms. Bear in mind, however, that several of the best lawyers in Boston attended Northeastern or Suffolk, and the alumni network is strong, and a law review student at Northeastern or Suffolk stands a much better chance of being hired at most Boston firms than a student in the upper half of the class at Notre Dame or Emory.
posted by A Long and Troublesome Lameness at 2:18 PM on May 28, 2008
posted by A Long and Troublesome Lameness at 2:18 PM on May 28, 2008
Best answer: I am at this very moment (well not right now, they let me go home) a summer associate at a large firm in Boston (one of the ones Bezuhin named above). The bulk of the summer class (~40%) comes from Harvard, BC, and BU. Another bunch comes from Georgetown, Virginia, UPenn, Chicago, etc., with another 10 or so schools each represented by one or two people. Suffolk and Northeastern are barely represented. One lower-ranked school that seems to do surprisingly well is UConn. Of course, this is just one year's sample, so take all that with a grain of salt.
As for Boston's insularity, as long as you have the grades it's only an issue if you seem like you're just coming to screw around for the summer. If you're serious about staying there long-term and can explain why (living there before law school and wanting to come back is definitely enough), you'll be fine no matter where in the country you go to law school.
posted by Partial Law at 7:36 PM on May 29, 2008
As for Boston's insularity, as long as you have the grades it's only an issue if you seem like you're just coming to screw around for the summer. If you're serious about staying there long-term and can explain why (living there before law school and wanting to come back is definitely enough), you'll be fine no matter where in the country you go to law school.
posted by Partial Law at 7:36 PM on May 29, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by saladin at 8:38 AM on May 28, 2008