Friend has announced that they're "neurodivergent." What to say?
March 23, 2024 2:59 PM Subscribe
An old friend (not extremely close, but a friendly relationship that I value) has had much success in both business and artistic endeavors over the course of their life. They were part of an artistic presentation last year, where their written bio identified them as a "neurodivergent [artist]" and gave many examples of their artistic work to date. Not that it matters, but I had never heard about this person's neurodivergence before.
First, please go easy on me for using all the wrong terminology and for not understanding basic concepts.
My question: What if anything should I say about the neurodivergence announcement? Bios are routinely provided for the purpose of informing the reader about the artist and inviting further discussion. Presumably it's OK for me to look up the other artworks and discuss them with the artist.
But can you give me some insight into why the "neurodivergent" fact was included--was this also for further discussion with the artist? Like, would it be an invitation to talk about how the neurodivergence informed the art, or whether there had been obstacles to overcome, or to ask about the nature of the neurodivergence?
Or is it perhaps preferred among the neurodivergent community to announce in this way, for example maybe as a reminder that neurotypicality should not be presumed, that anyone you meet might be neurodivergent?
Frankly I don't feel this person's neurodivergence is any of my business, but is this old thinking? Should I be more interested in informing myself about it?
Any insights are welcome, and please be kind--I'm out of my depth here.
First, please go easy on me for using all the wrong terminology and for not understanding basic concepts.
My question: What if anything should I say about the neurodivergence announcement? Bios are routinely provided for the purpose of informing the reader about the artist and inviting further discussion. Presumably it's OK for me to look up the other artworks and discuss them with the artist.
But can you give me some insight into why the "neurodivergent" fact was included--was this also for further discussion with the artist? Like, would it be an invitation to talk about how the neurodivergence informed the art, or whether there had been obstacles to overcome, or to ask about the nature of the neurodivergence?
Or is it perhaps preferred among the neurodivergent community to announce in this way, for example maybe as a reminder that neurotypicality should not be presumed, that anyone you meet might be neurodivergent?
Frankly I don't feel this person's neurodivergence is any of my business, but is this old thinking? Should I be more interested in informing myself about it?
Any insights are welcome, and please be kind--I'm out of my depth here.
Best answer: For many of us, it is a matter of choosing to be visible, and it may well be part of (what I don't think has an official name but I think of as) "emergence" into an identity that maybe didn't arrive until later in life.
Discovering or confirming neurodivergence is often a tremendous relief to people who had to live a "clearly there's something wrong with me, everybody is acting like I'm not doing it right" life. Once you know THAT's what's going on, there are techniques, methodologies, accommodations, you can stop fighting so hard to Do It Right and if people are shitty to you about it, you no longer have to bear that weight as simply a personal flaw.
But also, in a presentation sense around stuff like art, it may be specifically an important part of their identity as an artist. As you observed, their art and their neurodivergence may well be interwoven and they wish to frame it that way.
It may not matter all that much to them if their private friends are up to date on the state of their neurobiopsychology, or at least they don't feel the need to go through a more formal coming-out process to people who know them personally.
So it's not that you've found out a secret about them, but it's also not necessarily something you should send a congratulations card about or start an awkward conversation like 'so tell me all about this neurodivergence of yours'. If it is part of their day-to-day identity, they'll probably bring it up. If you're really curious, of course you can say, "Ooh, I saw in that presentation you were described as a neurodivergent basketweaver, can I ask what that means in artist terms? I'm really interested in how it informs your art."
posted by Lyn Never at 3:49 PM on March 23 [14 favorites]
Discovering or confirming neurodivergence is often a tremendous relief to people who had to live a "clearly there's something wrong with me, everybody is acting like I'm not doing it right" life. Once you know THAT's what's going on, there are techniques, methodologies, accommodations, you can stop fighting so hard to Do It Right and if people are shitty to you about it, you no longer have to bear that weight as simply a personal flaw.
But also, in a presentation sense around stuff like art, it may be specifically an important part of their identity as an artist. As you observed, their art and their neurodivergence may well be interwoven and they wish to frame it that way.
It may not matter all that much to them if their private friends are up to date on the state of their neurobiopsychology, or at least they don't feel the need to go through a more formal coming-out process to people who know them personally.
So it's not that you've found out a secret about them, but it's also not necessarily something you should send a congratulations card about or start an awkward conversation like 'so tell me all about this neurodivergence of yours'. If it is part of their day-to-day identity, they'll probably bring it up. If you're really curious, of course you can say, "Ooh, I saw in that presentation you were described as a neurodivergent basketweaver, can I ask what that means in artist terms? I'm really interested in how it informs your art."
posted by Lyn Never at 3:49 PM on March 23 [14 favorites]
Best answer: "Neurodivergent" is used so diversely as to practically be a null term. It can mean pretty much anything anyone wants it to mean.
However, as with anything else, if someone chooses to wear something on their sleeve you can’t go too far wrong asking about it. As it is a friend I would just ask them in what way they’re neurodivergent and if there is anything you can do to accommodate. If it were a stranger I might be more indirect, simply asking how they felt their neurodivergence affects their art.
Personally I don’t have much use for the word as it presupposes the existence of people whose brains are completely typical. Never met one.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:46 PM on March 23 [11 favorites]
However, as with anything else, if someone chooses to wear something on their sleeve you can’t go too far wrong asking about it. As it is a friend I would just ask them in what way they’re neurodivergent and if there is anything you can do to accommodate. If it were a stranger I might be more indirect, simply asking how they felt their neurodivergence affects their art.
Personally I don’t have much use for the word as it presupposes the existence of people whose brains are completely typical. Never met one.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:46 PM on March 23 [11 favorites]
Best answer: Quotation marks around terms of someone else's self-description are often used to denote some level of doubt, suspicion, or disbelief that that person's identity is actually true, real, or valid. That might be one of the concepts that is new to you, and that's okay if it is, but it's probably information worth taking on board. Framing this the way you did may put some people's hackles up; that's useful intel for you, if you're intending to start talking to your friend or other people about neurodivergence or other identities.
On to your question: If your friend put it in their bio, yes, I think you're absolutely fine to just ask if they're up for telling you more about that, and then to listen with an open mind to what you hear. Maybe do a bit of reading-up first so you can avoid some of the more obvious "person who has just heard about neurodivergence as a concept" questions that some people are really, really tired of answering. But it's also fine to not ask it, if you're not actually curious or interested and see it only as something that's not your business. You can leave it up to your friend to raise the topic if they think it is germane to your friendship.
Broadly, though - I think you can just assume it's there because many people would be interested in knowing. Many people who consider themselves neurodivergent in one way or another, are interested in seeking out art created by people like them. Or are interested academically in how their neurodivergence might affect art. Or like to support art created by people who are different or marginalized in some way. Or think "hey, this resonates with me" and go looking for the bio to learn more and are delighted to learn they have this thing in common. Or want to claim that identity often, loudly, and publicly as a political matter. Or want to normalize the existence of neurodivergent people in their professional spaces so that someday it doesn't occasion so much thought and questioning.
If you can think of reasons someone might include in their bio their gender, race, nationality, sexual orientation, or any other of a variety of personal backgrounds that influence their art, you can think of this as very much like that.
posted by Stacey at 5:28 PM on March 23 [4 favorites]
On to your question: If your friend put it in their bio, yes, I think you're absolutely fine to just ask if they're up for telling you more about that, and then to listen with an open mind to what you hear. Maybe do a bit of reading-up first so you can avoid some of the more obvious "person who has just heard about neurodivergence as a concept" questions that some people are really, really tired of answering. But it's also fine to not ask it, if you're not actually curious or interested and see it only as something that's not your business. You can leave it up to your friend to raise the topic if they think it is germane to your friendship.
Broadly, though - I think you can just assume it's there because many people would be interested in knowing. Many people who consider themselves neurodivergent in one way or another, are interested in seeking out art created by people like them. Or are interested academically in how their neurodivergence might affect art. Or like to support art created by people who are different or marginalized in some way. Or think "hey, this resonates with me" and go looking for the bio to learn more and are delighted to learn they have this thing in common. Or want to claim that identity often, loudly, and publicly as a political matter. Or want to normalize the existence of neurodivergent people in their professional spaces so that someday it doesn't occasion so much thought and questioning.
If you can think of reasons someone might include in their bio their gender, race, nationality, sexual orientation, or any other of a variety of personal backgrounds that influence their art, you can think of this as very much like that.
posted by Stacey at 5:28 PM on March 23 [4 favorites]
I sometimes describe myself as neurodivergent because I've been diagnosed with one flavor of neurodiversity (ADHD), I learned after I got that diagnosis that I was diagnosed as a kid with at least one other flavor of neurodiversity (sensory processing disorder, and I think I may have been diagnosed with dyspraxia as well, although I'm just extrapolating that from the occupational therapy that I remember having), and I wouldn't be surprised if I had autism or some other flavor of neurodiversity that nobody thought to look for when I was being diagnosed with things. So I sometimes say that I'm neurodivergent if I'm discussing stuff like sensory sensitivities that aren't typically associated with my primary diagnosis. I also sometimes feel a sense of community or commonality with people who are neurodiverse in ways other than having ADHD, because I deal with some stuff that are more common in people with other diagnoses than in people with my primary diagnosis.
I definitely get a vibe from your comment and from the comment that you favorited that you're skeptical of the whole concept, for what it's worth.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:43 PM on March 23 [4 favorites]
I definitely get a vibe from your comment and from the comment that you favorited that you're skeptical of the whole concept, for what it's worth.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:43 PM on March 23 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Arbitrary, my comment was about a poster's objection to my using quotation marks in the question. I'm not skeptical of the concept. As I said in the question, I know little about the concept. I've asked for your help understanding it.
posted by JimN2TAW at 6:47 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]
posted by JimN2TAW at 6:47 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I would consider this to be akin to other forms of public self-identification. And self-identifying is an intentional choice one might make for any number of reasons, which are complex for marginalized groups. I would not take it as an invitation to have a conversation about it, nor as a sign that you shouldn't. If you do want to, though, I would take a bit of time to learn more about it (as you are here). And approach it with an awareness that having such conversations can be taxing and should be a choice rather than felt as an obligation.
You might find this essay discussing a "neurodiversity paradigm" informative in explaining one point of view on why someone might want to convey neurodivergence as part of their identity, and also as a primer on language some people use.
posted by lookoutbelow at 7:27 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]
You might find this essay discussing a "neurodiversity paradigm" informative in explaining one point of view on why someone might want to convey neurodivergence as part of their identity, and also as a primer on language some people use.
posted by lookoutbelow at 7:27 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Why they included it in their description: many neurodivergent people went through childhood and young adulthood without anyone realising that they are ND.
For a number of reasons, including a generation of ND people growing up and becoming more vocal, the diagnostic criteria for being diagnosed as ADHD and Autistic has recently changed, and so many adults, right now, are realising that they are ND.
Growing up and living as a ND person without knowing it is painful and isolating. Realising that there are other people who have gone through something similar, and that the parts of yourself you've always been ashamed of, are perfectly normal in that community, is a liberating experience.
What to say? As others have mentioned, curiosity about their experience is a good start. If you want to talk to them about it ask "how did you realise?" and "what does it mean to you?"
Please don't say anything like "well, everyone is a little bit on the spectrum, right?"
If your friend relates things you've experienced too, don't approach it with the attitude "I do that too and I'm not ND" rather think about it as"Hey, I do that too. Do you think I might be ND?"
Your friend might, or might not have a formal diagnosis. Self diagnosis of autism and ADHD is valid in the ND community. Challenging or questioning their self diagnosis (if that's their situation) is as hurtful as asking a gay person whether they've been officially diagnosed as gay before you accept their self description.
posted by Zumbador at 9:45 PM on March 23 [7 favorites]
For a number of reasons, including a generation of ND people growing up and becoming more vocal, the diagnostic criteria for being diagnosed as ADHD and Autistic has recently changed, and so many adults, right now, are realising that they are ND.
Growing up and living as a ND person without knowing it is painful and isolating. Realising that there are other people who have gone through something similar, and that the parts of yourself you've always been ashamed of, are perfectly normal in that community, is a liberating experience.
What to say? As others have mentioned, curiosity about their experience is a good start. If you want to talk to them about it ask "how did you realise?" and "what does it mean to you?"
Please don't say anything like "well, everyone is a little bit on the spectrum, right?"
If your friend relates things you've experienced too, don't approach it with the attitude "I do that too and I'm not ND" rather think about it as"Hey, I do that too. Do you think I might be ND?"
Your friend might, or might not have a formal diagnosis. Self diagnosis of autism and ADHD is valid in the ND community. Challenging or questioning their self diagnosis (if that's their situation) is as hurtful as asking a gay person whether they've been officially diagnosed as gay before you accept their self description.
posted by Zumbador at 9:45 PM on March 23 [7 favorites]
Best answer: It's perfectly valid to not bring it up at all. I could be described as both a handicapped and neurodivergent artist, both of which impact my art, but I'd never put it in my bio. And I don't go into it with most friends unless it's necessary (I sometimes require accommodations that aren't necessarily obvious). If they've only mentioned it publicly once and never to you directly, it's entirely possible it's not a topic they want to go into with friends.
Was there anything about that specific show that might have caused them to mention it that one time? I've seen galleries and shows that specifically only feature disabled artists, for example.
posted by Candleman at 10:17 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]
Was there anything about that specific show that might have caused them to mention it that one time? I've seen galleries and shows that specifically only feature disabled artists, for example.
posted by Candleman at 10:17 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: No, nothing about that specific show. Thank you all for your very thorough and helpful answers. I’ll mark this resolved now.
posted by JimN2TAW at 11:49 PM on March 23 [2 favorites]
posted by JimN2TAW at 11:49 PM on March 23 [2 favorites]
Mod note: Quotation mark derail deleted. Let's stick to answering the question.
posted by taz (staff) at 12:50 AM on March 24
posted by taz (staff) at 12:50 AM on March 24
Best answer: You don't have to say anything about it.
Of course, if you want to learn more about neurodivergence from neurodiversity affirming resources, that is a great idea. But you don't have to say a single word about it to your friend, unless they bring it up.
It is better to listen than to speak.
posted by splitpeasoup at 2:04 PM on March 24 [3 favorites]
Of course, if you want to learn more about neurodivergence from neurodiversity affirming resources, that is a great idea. But you don't have to say a single word about it to your friend, unless they bring it up.
It is better to listen than to speak.
posted by splitpeasoup at 2:04 PM on March 24 [3 favorites]
Best answer: One interesting question might be, "I noticed you mentioned being neurodivergent in your bio for this show, and I don't recall seeing you mention it in your previous artistic endeavours. I was curious if including it in your bio had any effect on the kinds of conversations or responses you experienced for this project?"
posted by nouvelle-personne at 10:35 PM on March 25
posted by nouvelle-personne at 10:35 PM on March 25
Best answer: Is there something substantive you want or need to say to this person about that thing at this time? if so, I think it’s fair game. If you have nothing to say don’t say anything.
posted by chiquitita at 2:44 AM on March 26
posted by chiquitita at 2:44 AM on March 26
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There so many flavors of neurodiversity that is hard to say what would be helpful to you or them, or exactly what it means. But as it is public its something they will likely answer honest questions about if you approach with curiosity and an open mind.
Also, if they disclose ways that might be helpful for them for working/ friendship with you in the future please listen to it.
posted by AlexiaSky at 3:07 PM on March 23 [9 favorites]