What's behind these family food issues and how can I best handle them?
December 23, 2023 2:21 PM Subscribe
CW: Food talk. My family can be strange about food. I find it stressful to deal with, especially around the holidays, and I think if I understood the root causes a little more I'd be better able to deal with it emotionally - in my family and also in myself, because I am also a little strange about food!
I'm not seeking to solve everybody's food issues, I just want to know what could be behind them and how I can handle it best. Especially when my needs clash with my family members' needs and everyone gets stressed out. Every person in my family is ND (most have been diagnosed with ADHD) with a history of trauma.
I don't think these behaviours are bad, or make someone a terrible person, but the stress/reactivity associated with them makes me extremely anxious. I also feel like my preferences and needs get railroaded, which might be unfair of me to feel resentful about, but it does get tiring. I think I am probably also taking on way too much responsibility mentally for keeping these people happy wrt food, but I don't know how to stop.
Here are some examples of my family's patterns of food fixations and anxiety around food. Almost everyone involved is an adult:
- A certain food becomes a favourite and is eaten daily, sometimes several times a day. It is talked about at length, for months if not years. It's like a fixation and it can actually cause problems. For example, one family member's face turned orange because of the amount of carrot soup they were eating, another had heart problems because of the amount of specific herbal tea they were drinking, another has serious intestinal issues due to a refusal to stop eating a certain food they are allergic to.
- Some foods are seen as pure, safe, and good. They are usually processed foods. Certain brands and types of cookies, chicken nuggets, etc. Variations of that food (even other brands of the same food) are not acceptable and will be rejected. Only that one version of that food is good.
Conflict can arise when I have family at my place (almost always announced last minute) and I serve them the snacks and drinks I have on hand, which are not "good" because I don't eat the same things as they do. Due to my own issues, I can't have certain foods in my home for a long period of time, which means I can't buy family snack favourites and store them somewhere until a visit. They are aware of this but their anxiety of not having acceptable snacks or drinks takes over.
- Linked to the above, good food MUST be present in order for an occasion to be fun. If the food isn't enjoyable, then neither is the occasion.
- If someone is hungry it is the worst thing to have ever happened to them and they will not stop talking about being hungry and will be angry and resentful if a satisfying meal or snack is not provided immediately. If we're out somewhere, any activity must immediately stop until ideal food is found. Offers of granola bars, apples, etc. to tide them over are rejected. This behaviour makes me absolutely furious and I have a hard time staying calm and kind. SO MANY outings when I was a kid were ruined by it, and it's still occurring.
- Anything near a "best buy" date is dangerous and must be discarded. Any bruised or ugly produce is bad and cannot be eaten. Raw meat is disgusting.
If I am preparing dinner for certain family members and I'm using weird looking vegetables or raw meat, I can't have family members see the ingredients or the meal might be rejected.
- If a person is craving a specific food, they will become very anxious about obtaining that food, and if for some reason they can't have that food they will often (not always) become frustrated, sometimes to the point of anger and tears. For example, if I'd said I'd pick them up a tuna sandwich from a restaurant they like for lunch, but the place was out of tuna so I bought them a ham sandwich instead, which I know they also like.
- Similar to the last point, if a specific food is not provided on a specific occasion or doesn't taste a specific way, tears and anger can ensue (e.g. roasted carrots instead of mashed carrots, mashed potatoes instead of instant potatoes). And yes, some people get upset if the carrots are mashed, and some get upset if they aren't mashed. Preferences are always in flux and not communicated. They will not eat the unperfect food.
Rarely, not providing the perfect food will cause a family member to have a tantrum and remain angry for days (at everyone, not just the food provider) because it's proof they're not cared about.
Argh.
I'm not seeking to solve everybody's food issues, I just want to know what could be behind them and how I can handle it best. Especially when my needs clash with my family members' needs and everyone gets stressed out. Every person in my family is ND (most have been diagnosed with ADHD) with a history of trauma.
I don't think these behaviours are bad, or make someone a terrible person, but the stress/reactivity associated with them makes me extremely anxious. I also feel like my preferences and needs get railroaded, which might be unfair of me to feel resentful about, but it does get tiring. I think I am probably also taking on way too much responsibility mentally for keeping these people happy wrt food, but I don't know how to stop.
Here are some examples of my family's patterns of food fixations and anxiety around food. Almost everyone involved is an adult:
- A certain food becomes a favourite and is eaten daily, sometimes several times a day. It is talked about at length, for months if not years. It's like a fixation and it can actually cause problems. For example, one family member's face turned orange because of the amount of carrot soup they were eating, another had heart problems because of the amount of specific herbal tea they were drinking, another has serious intestinal issues due to a refusal to stop eating a certain food they are allergic to.
- Some foods are seen as pure, safe, and good. They are usually processed foods. Certain brands and types of cookies, chicken nuggets, etc. Variations of that food (even other brands of the same food) are not acceptable and will be rejected. Only that one version of that food is good.
Conflict can arise when I have family at my place (almost always announced last minute) and I serve them the snacks and drinks I have on hand, which are not "good" because I don't eat the same things as they do. Due to my own issues, I can't have certain foods in my home for a long period of time, which means I can't buy family snack favourites and store them somewhere until a visit. They are aware of this but their anxiety of not having acceptable snacks or drinks takes over.
- Linked to the above, good food MUST be present in order for an occasion to be fun. If the food isn't enjoyable, then neither is the occasion.
- If someone is hungry it is the worst thing to have ever happened to them and they will not stop talking about being hungry and will be angry and resentful if a satisfying meal or snack is not provided immediately. If we're out somewhere, any activity must immediately stop until ideal food is found. Offers of granola bars, apples, etc. to tide them over are rejected. This behaviour makes me absolutely furious and I have a hard time staying calm and kind. SO MANY outings when I was a kid were ruined by it, and it's still occurring.
- Anything near a "best buy" date is dangerous and must be discarded. Any bruised or ugly produce is bad and cannot be eaten. Raw meat is disgusting.
If I am preparing dinner for certain family members and I'm using weird looking vegetables or raw meat, I can't have family members see the ingredients or the meal might be rejected.
- If a person is craving a specific food, they will become very anxious about obtaining that food, and if for some reason they can't have that food they will often (not always) become frustrated, sometimes to the point of anger and tears. For example, if I'd said I'd pick them up a tuna sandwich from a restaurant they like for lunch, but the place was out of tuna so I bought them a ham sandwich instead, which I know they also like.
- Similar to the last point, if a specific food is not provided on a specific occasion or doesn't taste a specific way, tears and anger can ensue (e.g. roasted carrots instead of mashed carrots, mashed potatoes instead of instant potatoes). And yes, some people get upset if the carrots are mashed, and some get upset if they aren't mashed. Preferences are always in flux and not communicated. They will not eat the unperfect food.
Rarely, not providing the perfect food will cause a family member to have a tantrum and remain angry for days (at everyone, not just the food provider) because it's proof they're not cared about.
Argh.
I am... not sure what advice can be given here because so much of this is hinging on the actions of others. You cannot control the actions or reactions of any of these people. It's old and trite but true that you can only control your own actions and reactions.
At organized family meals, you can distribute a menu and tell people this is what you are serving and they can bring their own foods and if that isn't possible, you will understand if they choose not to come.
You can also email a list of snack foods you'll always have on hand and tell people you love visitors but if those are not going to be satisfying foods to them, they will need to bring their own.
At that point, you are not responsible for the choices others make. You are just not that powerful. But learning to let the blame and guilt roll off you will be hard.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:41 PM on December 23, 2023 [24 favorites]
At organized family meals, you can distribute a menu and tell people this is what you are serving and they can bring their own foods and if that isn't possible, you will understand if they choose not to come.
You can also email a list of snack foods you'll always have on hand and tell people you love visitors but if those are not going to be satisfying foods to them, they will need to bring their own.
At that point, you are not responsible for the choices others make. You are just not that powerful. But learning to let the blame and guilt roll off you will be hard.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:41 PM on December 23, 2023 [24 favorites]
Good lord, that sounds absolutely exhausting. Are your family members aware/do they acknowledge they are not typical with regards to their behaviors around food? I think ideally you should figure out your own way to draw a boundary and take care of yourself. The boundary cannot be about changing others’ behavior but should be about changing your own reaction to it.
I am not patient enough to deal with things like this, so my reaction would probably be to attempt to remove food from the equation whenever possible, and failing that, make it the person with issues’ responsibility to provide their own acceptable food. They are almost all adults. What do they do in all the other normal adult life circumstances where this kind of thing might happen—school, work, friends’ houses, etc?
I think they know they can get away with this behavior with you, so they keep expecting you to read their minds and bend over backwards because there’s no real consequence to continuing to do so. The upside is they get what they want, they don’t have to feel uncomfortable, and they subconsciously get to feel powerful and in control in the overall family dynamic. If you can articulate the situation to them and firmly set expectations, it will be uncomfortable, but also allow you to stop holding the burden of managing all this inside yourself.
“You’re welcome to come over—I should mention that I only have Cheez-Its at home right now to offer you. If you want to eat something else, you’ll have to bring it yourself.” (Meltdown commences) “I’m sorry you’re feeling anxious/upset, but I told you I only have Cheez-Its before you came here. If you are only willing to eat certain foods, you’ll have to plan accordingly for yourself because I can’t keep everything you might want on hand here.”
“I don’t have Costco chicken nuggets, but this doesn’t mean anything about how much I love you. You did not tell me this was what you wanted to eat and I can’t read your mind. Next time, please tell me what you want to eat and I will let you know if I can accommodate it.”
“I wanted to be at the museum by 2 PM. If you need to look for food first, that’s fine, but I’ll just go separately and meet you there.” Then do your best to detach and actually do it.
posted by music for skeletons at 3:03 PM on December 23, 2023 [12 favorites]
I am not patient enough to deal with things like this, so my reaction would probably be to attempt to remove food from the equation whenever possible, and failing that, make it the person with issues’ responsibility to provide their own acceptable food. They are almost all adults. What do they do in all the other normal adult life circumstances where this kind of thing might happen—school, work, friends’ houses, etc?
I think they know they can get away with this behavior with you, so they keep expecting you to read their minds and bend over backwards because there’s no real consequence to continuing to do so. The upside is they get what they want, they don’t have to feel uncomfortable, and they subconsciously get to feel powerful and in control in the overall family dynamic. If you can articulate the situation to them and firmly set expectations, it will be uncomfortable, but also allow you to stop holding the burden of managing all this inside yourself.
“You’re welcome to come over—I should mention that I only have Cheez-Its at home right now to offer you. If you want to eat something else, you’ll have to bring it yourself.” (Meltdown commences) “I’m sorry you’re feeling anxious/upset, but I told you I only have Cheez-Its before you came here. If you are only willing to eat certain foods, you’ll have to plan accordingly for yourself because I can’t keep everything you might want on hand here.”
“I don’t have Costco chicken nuggets, but this doesn’t mean anything about how much I love you. You did not tell me this was what you wanted to eat and I can’t read your mind. Next time, please tell me what you want to eat and I will let you know if I can accommodate it.”
“I wanted to be at the museum by 2 PM. If you need to look for food first, that’s fine, but I’ll just go separately and meet you there.” Then do your best to detach and actually do it.
posted by music for skeletons at 3:03 PM on December 23, 2023 [12 favorites]
IANAT (I am not a therapist) so I can only make some guesses here, but those guesses are: there are some features of OCD and/or a family system emotional "vernacular" that has historically positioned food as the medium that is shared and accepted within this family constellation for sublimating / expressing anxieties and needs around control.
I am not sure how to handle it, but maybe reading about food-themed OCD and the different varieties of compulsions around food could provide helpful ideas. I am obviously not diagnosing your family members, but even if it's not OCD-related, some of the behaviors are similar enough that some of the coping mechanisms related to OCD behavior could be adapted to help you.
posted by virve at 3:08 PM on December 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
I am not sure how to handle it, but maybe reading about food-themed OCD and the different varieties of compulsions around food could provide helpful ideas. I am obviously not diagnosing your family members, but even if it's not OCD-related, some of the behaviors are similar enough that some of the coping mechanisms related to OCD behavior could be adapted to help you.
posted by virve at 3:08 PM on December 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
Hey, I have some of these weird food issues, and yes, they are exhausting even as the one who has them.
I suspect everything you listed isn't attributable to a single cause, but the persistent preference for a specific single food, and the attachment to "safe foods" (especially processed ones, because you can expect minimal variation from batch to batch) are both common in neurodivergent folks (those with autism, ADHD, OCD, and other disorders). Changes to routine, including those food-based ones, can cause tantrum-like meltdowns in neurodivergent folks, even adults
The term ARFID has been going around lately, too, and it's a helpful concept for me.
As for practical advice, hopefully learning more about the potential root causes will help with being more patient and understanding with these food issues, and beyond that:
- Remember it's not your responsibility to provide for other people
- But if you're hosting a food-based gathering, it's nice to make a reasonable attempt to accommodate within your ability -- and if you can't, for example, fix carrot soup, let the affected person know up-front so they can bring their own. Just like you would if you're hosting someone with allergies.
- Take care of your own food needs and preferences, even if they don't match others' -- if you want chocolate cake but everyone else's safe cake is vanilla with white frosting, get yourself a little chocolate cake! Bring your own required drinks with you. Etc. This will not only ensure your own needs are taken care of, but also model it for others
And the feeling responsible for everyone's needs things can be helped with a good therapist, or at least some reading on parentification, fawn response, and being the child of emotionally immature parents.
This stuff is hard, and you're taking the right steps to try to understand your family and yourself.
posted by rhiannonstone at 3:21 PM on December 23, 2023 [10 favorites]
I suspect everything you listed isn't attributable to a single cause, but the persistent preference for a specific single food, and the attachment to "safe foods" (especially processed ones, because you can expect minimal variation from batch to batch) are both common in neurodivergent folks (those with autism, ADHD, OCD, and other disorders). Changes to routine, including those food-based ones, can cause tantrum-like meltdowns in neurodivergent folks, even adults
The term ARFID has been going around lately, too, and it's a helpful concept for me.
As for practical advice, hopefully learning more about the potential root causes will help with being more patient and understanding with these food issues, and beyond that:
- Remember it's not your responsibility to provide for other people
- But if you're hosting a food-based gathering, it's nice to make a reasonable attempt to accommodate within your ability -- and if you can't, for example, fix carrot soup, let the affected person know up-front so they can bring their own. Just like you would if you're hosting someone with allergies.
- Take care of your own food needs and preferences, even if they don't match others' -- if you want chocolate cake but everyone else's safe cake is vanilla with white frosting, get yourself a little chocolate cake! Bring your own required drinks with you. Etc. This will not only ensure your own needs are taken care of, but also model it for others
And the feeling responsible for everyone's needs things can be helped with a good therapist, or at least some reading on parentification, fawn response, and being the child of emotionally immature parents.
This stuff is hard, and you're taking the right steps to try to understand your family and yourself.
posted by rhiannonstone at 3:21 PM on December 23, 2023 [10 favorites]
Let me try to address a bit what may be behind these food issues, as a neurodivergent (ND) person.
Many ND people have hyposensitive interoception: they don't perceive the sensations of hunger until they reach emergency proportions, and at that point the sensations become so overwhelming that they trigger a fight-or-flight reaction. This is especially traumatic in childhood, when the ND person has little to no control over their food sources; the anxiety patterns thus embedded carry forward into adulthood. The solution to this is for the ND person to have a source of food available that they are in control of and can access before the hunger reaches a crisis stage. The best approach is to have scheduled mealtimes. Consider whether the outings and/or family events that you have influence on are putting pressure (even subtly) on other family members to change their meal schedule.
Many ND people have sensitivities to food flavours or textures that make certain foods repulsive to them. These people often carry significant trauma from early childhood over being shamed for their food restrictions based on the health judgements of others (I noticed your own implicit value judgements in your question). This shame triggers defensiveness and fear, and adds to the emotional weight of a non-ideal food situation, making the emotional response worse. You can address this by laying off the value judgements over other people's food choices.
Many ND people become stressed out by changes in plans or unexpected changes in what they expect to happen (this is called "intolerance of uncertainty"). Don't tell your family member that you are going to bring them such-and-such a food and then bring them something different (even if you think it's "equivalent"). Since your family members are (mostly) adults, your best approach for this is to decline to pick up food for them. If they are able to transport themselves and acquire their own food, they should take responsibility for doing this. In short, don't offer unless you know you can deliver.
posted by heatherlogan at 3:27 PM on December 23, 2023 [24 favorites]
Many ND people have hyposensitive interoception: they don't perceive the sensations of hunger until they reach emergency proportions, and at that point the sensations become so overwhelming that they trigger a fight-or-flight reaction. This is especially traumatic in childhood, when the ND person has little to no control over their food sources; the anxiety patterns thus embedded carry forward into adulthood. The solution to this is for the ND person to have a source of food available that they are in control of and can access before the hunger reaches a crisis stage. The best approach is to have scheduled mealtimes. Consider whether the outings and/or family events that you have influence on are putting pressure (even subtly) on other family members to change their meal schedule.
Many ND people have sensitivities to food flavours or textures that make certain foods repulsive to them. These people often carry significant trauma from early childhood over being shamed for their food restrictions based on the health judgements of others (I noticed your own implicit value judgements in your question). This shame triggers defensiveness and fear, and adds to the emotional weight of a non-ideal food situation, making the emotional response worse. You can address this by laying off the value judgements over other people's food choices.
Many ND people become stressed out by changes in plans or unexpected changes in what they expect to happen (this is called "intolerance of uncertainty"). Don't tell your family member that you are going to bring them such-and-such a food and then bring them something different (even if you think it's "equivalent"). Since your family members are (mostly) adults, your best approach for this is to decline to pick up food for them. If they are able to transport themselves and acquire their own food, they should take responsibility for doing this. In short, don't offer unless you know you can deliver.
posted by heatherlogan at 3:27 PM on December 23, 2023 [24 favorites]
There is a large overlap between ADHD and autism and if we're talking older family members, they're of an age group where such diagnoses were unlikely to be made (if this is the issue). Some of these sound a lot like autistic 'same food' and sensory perception issues and the anxiety and meltdowns that can cause. In which case your family members would to a large extent not be able to control their reactions to the food, or to not having their safe or same foods. If you can't lay in supplies of known safe/same foods.
then family members need to take responsibility for bringing their same/safe foods with them or for coming with you to buy stuff they know they can eat and to understand that they need to help you a bit on this so you can help them.
On preview that's a great answer from rhiannonstone
posted by Flitcraft at 3:28 PM on December 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
then family members need to take responsibility for bringing their same/safe foods with them or for coming with you to buy stuff they know they can eat and to understand that they need to help you a bit on this so you can help them.
On preview that's a great answer from rhiannonstone
posted by Flitcraft at 3:28 PM on December 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
Just reading this, I don't understand how anyone in your family could ever host anything that isn't a potluck. It'd be one thing if their preferences and disfavored foods were fixed and their visits were planned well in advance, but last-minute get togethers and changing favorites, plus high anxiety over food? That's BYO snacks territory for sure. I'd focus on trying to communicate boundaries paired with a sincere invitation that they bring their own safe/best/favorite new food with them whenever they come over so that they know there will be something they can eat.
good luck
posted by deludingmyself at 3:55 PM on December 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
good luck
posted by deludingmyself at 3:55 PM on December 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
This is both difficult and fun, and seems like the very essence of what spreadsheets and diagrams are for.
Could you for a moment ignore everything you planned, and instead think of what is possible, given the various restrictions you are given? Make a spreadsheet with all the foods on one axis and the family members on the other, and see what is possible.
In general, I am getting fonder and fonder of meals with multiple options, so everyone in my family can have a full meal regardless of their dietary choices. I just use a pencil and paper, no need for excel in my case.
The common Western meal is built around an appetizer, main and dessert, and these are again broken down into very specific formats. But it doesn't have to be that way. With the same amount of work, you can provide a spread of different options. A bit like a buffet, but in a way that works at home.
Since your family likes processed foods, things like chicken nuggets can be part of your "buffet", even though you don't eat them.
posted by mumimor at 3:58 PM on December 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Could you for a moment ignore everything you planned, and instead think of what is possible, given the various restrictions you are given? Make a spreadsheet with all the foods on one axis and the family members on the other, and see what is possible.
In general, I am getting fonder and fonder of meals with multiple options, so everyone in my family can have a full meal regardless of their dietary choices. I just use a pencil and paper, no need for excel in my case.
The common Western meal is built around an appetizer, main and dessert, and these are again broken down into very specific formats. But it doesn't have to be that way. With the same amount of work, you can provide a spread of different options. A bit like a buffet, but in a way that works at home.
Since your family likes processed foods, things like chicken nuggets can be part of your "buffet", even though you don't eat them.
posted by mumimor at 3:58 PM on December 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Question: Can safe foods vary wildly depending on a person's emotional state? Because that is part of the issue - the unpredictability. In heightened emotional states sometimes only one specific food a family member has in mind will suffice. And it is rarely the same food they wanted the last time. Often they don't even know what they want (especially during the hunger episodes), they have to go through a bunch of options before something appears that is acceptable. E.g., last time they were fine with peanut butter and crackers, this time it has to be watermelon - and why did you suggest peanut butter and crackers you know I hate peanut butter?
I have a close relative diagnosed with ADHD and autism who has very specific and mostly fixed food preferences. He is actually the easiest person in my family to provide food for. I do see some similarities between him and my other family members (especially around how some food is pure, some food is suspicious), but mostly they are very different.
Actually writing this out has been enlightening. A lot of this behaviour seems to be centered around emotional states and comfort/self-soothing/care/validation via food.
posted by Stoof at 4:12 PM on December 23, 2023 [11 favorites]
I have a close relative diagnosed with ADHD and autism who has very specific and mostly fixed food preferences. He is actually the easiest person in my family to provide food for. I do see some similarities between him and my other family members (especially around how some food is pure, some food is suspicious), but mostly they are very different.
Actually writing this out has been enlightening. A lot of this behaviour seems to be centered around emotional states and comfort/self-soothing/care/validation via food.
posted by Stoof at 4:12 PM on December 23, 2023 [11 favorites]
Response by poster: ( I think it's interesting that people are taking my "processed food" mention as negative. There was no value judgement in that sentence. It was factual. I also did not say I don't eat processed foods.)
posted by Stoof at 4:20 PM on December 23, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by Stoof at 4:20 PM on December 23, 2023 [7 favorites]
Yes, absolutely, safe foods can vary, and what feels "safe" can change based on emotional state, or other factors -- such as the time one of my safe foods stopped being safe when I got a bad batch with an unpleasant texture, or the time I got sick the day after eating my favorite delivery food and all the logic in the world couldn't convince my brain that the two were not connected.
And for me, especially when I'm hangry, nothing that isn't exactly what I want at the moment will do... but I often don't know what I want... and it is a terrible cycle. I personally usually have some backups I can force myself to eat in that situation, but I'm definitely cranky about it when it happens.
posted by rhiannonstone at 4:21 PM on December 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
And for me, especially when I'm hangry, nothing that isn't exactly what I want at the moment will do... but I often don't know what I want... and it is a terrible cycle. I personally usually have some backups I can force myself to eat in that situation, but I'm definitely cranky about it when it happens.
posted by rhiannonstone at 4:21 PM on December 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
Ideas on how to handle it:
1. Boundaries. If they come over and insult the food you provide, ask them to drop the subject. If they can't/won't, they have to leave.
2. When a food tizzy starts to brew, just check out. Look at your phone, leave the room, wander into a store. You're not really able to be helpful, it's not your responsibility, and it stresses you out. If it sucks, hit da bricks (emotionally).
3. The one area where I think you can reasonably help a little is asking everyone to consider having a snack before leaving the house. Or if that would be considered condescending, announce that you're having one.
4. Spend less time with them, honestly. And never, ever agree to cook for them. You can do dishes.
posted by umwelt at 4:31 PM on December 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
1. Boundaries. If they come over and insult the food you provide, ask them to drop the subject. If they can't/won't, they have to leave.
2. When a food tizzy starts to brew, just check out. Look at your phone, leave the room, wander into a store. You're not really able to be helpful, it's not your responsibility, and it stresses you out. If it sucks, hit da bricks (emotionally).
3. The one area where I think you can reasonably help a little is asking everyone to consider having a snack before leaving the house. Or if that would be considered condescending, announce that you're having one.
4. Spend less time with them, honestly. And never, ever agree to cook for them. You can do dishes.
posted by umwelt at 4:31 PM on December 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
I don’t see it as your responsibility (or as something that’s even feasible) to provide every possible type/brand of food, cooked every possible way. Even restaurants don’t do this, and they’re in the food preparation business.
I would discourage these “last minute“ family get-togethers, since they apparently never end well. If you must host one, I’d make it clear that you’re not providing food. Everyone attending needs to bring their own meal/snacks/drinks if they want to eat.
It might also turn out that, with the perverse enjoyment of criticizing/fighting about food removed from the equation, the problem of being asked to host impromptu gatherings will solve itself.
posted by elphaba at 6:12 PM on December 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
I would discourage these “last minute“ family get-togethers, since they apparently never end well. If you must host one, I’d make it clear that you’re not providing food. Everyone attending needs to bring their own meal/snacks/drinks if they want to eat.
It might also turn out that, with the perverse enjoyment of criticizing/fighting about food removed from the equation, the problem of being asked to host impromptu gatherings will solve itself.
posted by elphaba at 6:12 PM on December 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
I think it’s worth talking about kindly.
I have a relative with pretty severe food issues. I do ask him the day before a visit what I can get for him, and then I get only that exact thing (and sometimes he prepares it because, for example, he doesn’t like other things to touch it.) But if we can’t connect, he brings his own food, or goes out and buys his own food while we’re eating.
What I try to do is give him an environment where he can solve it himself. For example, he can’t handle leftovers being in my fridge. So we keep it closed when he’s in the room, and seat him where he can’t see it.
We don’t shame him, try to get him to eat anything, or expect him to buy us what he’s having. We don’t comment on nutrition. We just support him.(he’s in his early 50s.)
But…that’s it.
My immediate family as a group has some good issues but that’s a bit different. I. Some ways the same principle applies. I try to provide good that works - but for any adults, ultimately they are responsible for their own food.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:44 PM on December 23, 2023 [8 favorites]
I have a relative with pretty severe food issues. I do ask him the day before a visit what I can get for him, and then I get only that exact thing (and sometimes he prepares it because, for example, he doesn’t like other things to touch it.) But if we can’t connect, he brings his own food, or goes out and buys his own food while we’re eating.
What I try to do is give him an environment where he can solve it himself. For example, he can’t handle leftovers being in my fridge. So we keep it closed when he’s in the room, and seat him where he can’t see it.
We don’t shame him, try to get him to eat anything, or expect him to buy us what he’s having. We don’t comment on nutrition. We just support him.(he’s in his early 50s.)
But…that’s it.
My immediate family as a group has some good issues but that’s a bit different. I. Some ways the same principle applies. I try to provide good that works - but for any adults, ultimately they are responsible for their own food.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:44 PM on December 23, 2023 [8 favorites]
If this was a challenge on Top Chef, most of the professional cooks would collapse in tears, throw their knives on the floor and quit.
That's not a value judgment on your family, who are being made miserable by this as well, it's an expression of sympathy for everyone involved.
There are simply too many competing, highly variable needs. Unless you have an infinite freezer and a bottomless budget, you cannot accommodate all this. You are not a magician.
So throw your knives down and quit.
From now on, gatherings are potluck. Everyone can bring their own snacks. If they do not bring snacks, they will be furnished with directions to the nearest store.
posted by champers at 2:14 AM on December 24, 2023 [5 favorites]
That's not a value judgment on your family, who are being made miserable by this as well, it's an expression of sympathy for everyone involved.
There are simply too many competing, highly variable needs. Unless you have an infinite freezer and a bottomless budget, you cannot accommodate all this. You are not a magician.
So throw your knives down and quit.
From now on, gatherings are potluck. Everyone can bring their own snacks. If they do not bring snacks, they will be furnished with directions to the nearest store.
posted by champers at 2:14 AM on December 24, 2023 [5 favorites]
Conflict can arise when I have family at my place (almost always announced last minute) and I serve them the snacks and drinks I have on hand, which are not "good" because
Is there a chance it would be both doable for you and helpful with them to get to a state where you always offer the same foods/drinks, such that they know that going to Stoof's means getting A, B, and C and that's it, and it's predictable?
posted by trig at 2:48 AM on December 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
Is there a chance it would be both doable for you and helpful with them to get to a state where you always offer the same foods/drinks, such that they know that going to Stoof's means getting A, B, and C and that's it, and it's predictable?
posted by trig at 2:48 AM on December 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
It sounds like there are two separate things going on: the food issues themselves, and the dynamic where family members expect others to solve their issues for them (instead of just not getting in the way of them solving the issues for themselves, or compassionately providing helpful conditions as warriorqueen describes). For the second one, think about replacing the specific food issues with other ways you’ve read or heard about (from other people’s families) family members expecting other family members to correctly guess and meet their needs (with no regard for the other person’s needs) to maybe get some insight on that component.
It sounds like the food issues themselves stem from some neurodivergence that just is what it is. But the family dynamic that has developed for dealing with that base reality sounds unhealthy. Why do families develop unhealthy dynamics? Trauma, lack of societal understanding of underlying mental health needs leading older family members to discount healthier ways to meet the needs (and then teaching the unhealthy dynamics to younger family members), etc. - that can vary a lot I think. But the dynamic of making other family members responsible for intuiting, and correctly interpreting, each others’ feelings or needs seems to be a somewhat common unhealthy family dynamic, so quite possibly just picked up from general society, especially in the interaction with common cultural expectations around proper hosting and around food as expression of care?
posted by eviemath at 5:55 AM on December 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
It sounds like the food issues themselves stem from some neurodivergence that just is what it is. But the family dynamic that has developed for dealing with that base reality sounds unhealthy. Why do families develop unhealthy dynamics? Trauma, lack of societal understanding of underlying mental health needs leading older family members to discount healthier ways to meet the needs (and then teaching the unhealthy dynamics to younger family members), etc. - that can vary a lot I think. But the dynamic of making other family members responsible for intuiting, and correctly interpreting, each others’ feelings or needs seems to be a somewhat common unhealthy family dynamic, so quite possibly just picked up from general society, especially in the interaction with common cultural expectations around proper hosting and around food as expression of care?
posted by eviemath at 5:55 AM on December 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
They come over unannounced at the last minute and get anxious/angry if you don't have their favorite foods, which are foods you don't/can't keep in the house? This is not a you problem.
This. You have no responsibility to deal with this.
These are adult toddlers. And, as toddlers, they need to be taught rules and manners. Rule 1: Well, this is what’s for dinner. If you aren’t going to eat it (or eat it and not bitch about it,) you can go to bed hungry. Or, since you’re supposedly adults, you’re welcome to go elsewhere for dinner.
I’m a pretty inclusive/hospitable cook, but this bullshit would not stand.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:34 AM on December 24, 2023 [8 favorites]
This. You have no responsibility to deal with this.
These are adult toddlers. And, as toddlers, they need to be taught rules and manners. Rule 1: Well, this is what’s for dinner. If you aren’t going to eat it (or eat it and not bitch about it,) you can go to bed hungry. Or, since you’re supposedly adults, you’re welcome to go elsewhere for dinner.
I’m a pretty inclusive/hospitable cook, but this bullshit would not stand.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:34 AM on December 24, 2023 [8 favorites]
This sounds like out of control anxiety and maybe some neurodivergence issues combined with--and here's the controllable part--poor manners and a strong sense of entitlement.
Others have provided some good strategies for limiting your own understandable anxiety and inconvenience in these situations, and it would probably be worth thinking about what would make your own experience less stressful. If it were me, I'd tell them that their food issues are causing me too much stress, so from now on they're not going to get fed at my place unless they bring their own food. If they show up without something they want to eat, they can go hungry or call out for delivery (at their own expense).
posted by rpfields at 12:29 PM on December 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
Others have provided some good strategies for limiting your own understandable anxiety and inconvenience in these situations, and it would probably be worth thinking about what would make your own experience less stressful. If it were me, I'd tell them that their food issues are causing me too much stress, so from now on they're not going to get fed at my place unless they bring their own food. If they show up without something they want to eat, they can go hungry or call out for delivery (at their own expense).
posted by rpfields at 12:29 PM on December 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
I have some of these same issues, though I would be horrified to impose them on family members to this degree, and what I want most of all is to be allowed to eat by myself, at home, in a way I can control. I think the move is to, insofar as it's possible, stop trying to prepare dinner for these family members. Time their visits in a way where you can provide them a pre-meal, cocktail-hour type repast, where you ask them exactly what kind of a spread they want you to procure for them each time. Then normalize responding to their hunger for a full meal by encouraging them to immediately go procure that meal for themselves. I realize I'm making this sound easy and it has all kinds of potential pitfalls! But I do think everyone will be happier, including your family members, if there's a way to tack towards making you not responsible for feeding them.
posted by babelfish at 4:17 PM on December 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by babelfish at 4:17 PM on December 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
You don't mention how much self-awareness people have about this (not in the moment but overall) and how willing they are to acknowledge problems and talk in general about your relationship and logistics and things like that. Are any of them able to have a conversation where you can say "what can we do to solve this" and they think about it seriously?
posted by trig at 4:37 PM on December 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by trig at 4:37 PM on December 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: This:
I think I am probably also taking on way too much responsibility mentally for keeping these people happy wrt food, but I don't know how to stop.
Is the core of the problem, as you already know. You're taking all of their feelings on as judgments of you and as a sign that you did something wrong or didn't do something right. They may be putting that on to you, or maybe have just gotten used to you dropping everything to try to solve the problem and don't have an impetus to solve the problem themselves. But you also have agency on what problems you consider to be yours to solve, and how you feel about them - I.e. whether you're fulfilling a duty, or doing them an optional favour. Their behaviour will not change unless yours does.
At the core of it, they need to take on the responsibility for addressing their food problems, including giving you clear information about how to help in a way that is not unduly burdensome to you. And you need to stop taking on so much responsibility for it.
I'm really avoidant of explicit emotional conversations with family, and my family is not inclined to them, so I understand this may feel impossible. But your situation has gotten so extreme and unbalanced that it seems like maybe that's the way. Like write them a letter or something. Boundaries, basically.
posted by lookoutbelow at 10:28 PM on December 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
I think I am probably also taking on way too much responsibility mentally for keeping these people happy wrt food, but I don't know how to stop.
Is the core of the problem, as you already know. You're taking all of their feelings on as judgments of you and as a sign that you did something wrong or didn't do something right. They may be putting that on to you, or maybe have just gotten used to you dropping everything to try to solve the problem and don't have an impetus to solve the problem themselves. But you also have agency on what problems you consider to be yours to solve, and how you feel about them - I.e. whether you're fulfilling a duty, or doing them an optional favour. Their behaviour will not change unless yours does.
At the core of it, they need to take on the responsibility for addressing their food problems, including giving you clear information about how to help in a way that is not unduly burdensome to you. And you need to stop taking on so much responsibility for it.
I'm really avoidant of explicit emotional conversations with family, and my family is not inclined to them, so I understand this may feel impossible. But your situation has gotten so extreme and unbalanced that it seems like maybe that's the way. Like write them a letter or something. Boundaries, basically.
posted by lookoutbelow at 10:28 PM on December 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
This post inspired me to text my sister with details about what I was planning to have for Christmas lunch (a large charcuterie board). She didn’t respond, but I later followed up in person today and she was able to tell me, “actually, I do prefer to have my own serving of things and not just a group serving.”
So thank you for helping me think through food and holidays at my own home.
posted by samthemander at 10:43 PM on December 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
So thank you for helping me think through food and holidays at my own home.
posted by samthemander at 10:43 PM on December 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
I don't know if this behavior is coming from a place of deep trauma or unmanaged anxiety. I don't know if this behavior is somehow rewarding them somehow. I do know it's deeply unfair and it sounds extraordinarily upsetting. It sounds super controlling.
Like I know folks with very restrictive food requirements, and many would never dream of showing up at someone's house unannounced and expecting to be catered to. They'd bring their own food, have eaten already, or made plans in advance where things were discussed explicitly.
I think the solution here isn't in understanding this behavior better. I think the solution is Metafilter's favorite: better boundaries. I am just guessing here, but perhaps this could look like you communicating -- in advance, not in the middle of one of these episodes -- that there will be no more unannounced drop-ins.
Maybe this is the time for you to readAdult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents? I suspect this situation has been going on so long that it's hard to even see how unhealthy these behavior patterns are. I don't think the solution is in you having compassion for them so much as yourself.
posted by bluedaisy at 2:38 PM on December 23, 2023 [17 favorites]