How do you effectively navigate a DARVO response?

July 31, 2023 7:24 AM

I've been thinking a lot about this thread and the (new to me) conceptualization of DARVO - Deny, Accuse, Reverse Victim and Offender. I realized one important person in my life does this repeatedly and we are stuck in a toxic loop. Are there clinically effective tactics and strategies for navigating through these responses to a healthy place? Please assume that this is a relationship I will always have, I desperately want to have - but it has to have so much more care and gentleness. I am desperate to get us off of this train.
posted by Silvery Fish to Human Relations (9 answers total)

I don’t think the example in that thread is actually a good example of DARVO, because the other party was reacting to an actual trigger and a perceived offense, not just trying to deflect attention.

My ex is a classic DARVO - like I will say “can you please put child to bed? It is an hour past bedtime” and he will reply “Oh yeah?? You let him stay up late last night!” This is despite the fact that we actually both agree on prioritizing a consistent bedtime. Ex is just consitutionally unable to handle any direct demands/criticism.

When we have been in actual therapy, the therapist breaks through the DARVO by patiently returning to the facts/subject at hand. Eventually ex had to stop avoiding the actual issue.

Over time I’ve learned that DARVO is an argument tactic and has little to do with solving an actual problem, so I try not to react to it and just solve the problem instead if I can. I do a lot of ignoring. “Yes I know he stayed up late - can you put him to bed?”
posted by haptic_avenger at 7:46 AM on July 31, 2023 [12 favorites]

You can't change other people, you can only change yourself. Given your goal to stay, think of what you are doing when they deny something. Do something else instead. For example, if you usually try to persuade them out of their denial, instead you could stop talking and walk away. Or you could laugh and say "You're doing it again." You may find it helpful to engage a therapist to help you break your side of the pattern. Becoming more aware of your boundaries and what you would do when someone crosses them is important in any relationship.
posted by SyraCarol at 7:48 AM on July 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

Very quietly (since the goal of DARVO is to get you irrationally angry) : " ... are you OK?"
posted by Dashy at 7:49 AM on July 31, 2023 [5 favorites]

but it has to have so much more care and gentleness.

That would require the other person to do a lot of work on themselves, which is beyond your control. All you can do is recognize the other person’s limitations and adjust your expectations accordingly.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:54 AM on July 31, 2023 [10 favorites]

I have several people in my life who use this tactic. When I am on my game, I say ok and then repeat whatever it was I said. "Will you put the child to bed?" "You let the child stay up last night!" "Ok. Will you put the child to bed?"

The point is to always return to what you originally said and to not get derailed.
posted by OrangeDisk at 7:55 AM on July 31, 2023 [16 favorites]

The only way to win the darvo game is not to play. Just go grey rock.
posted by twelve cent archie at 8:41 AM on July 31, 2023 [4 favorites]

Best answer: Radically accept that you cannot make them admit their share of the blame, nor can you get them to acknowledge the validity of your POV.

That means you just say okay (and repeat your concrete request, if any) when they attack you in a DARVO move. You don't argue back, you don't defend yourself, and you also don't let their opinion affect you (this is hard, and will take lots of practice). You also stop trying to make them acknowledge/validate your side of the argument or your concerns. For your part, you will simply state your opinion and not look for any agreement from them.

This particular level of engagement within the relationship, where you attempt to persuade them, should stop completely. Operate from a "just say your piece, you're planting seeds and see if they sprout" mindset, not a debate-and-persuade-until-you-find-consensus mindset. This is also very hard and will take tons of practice.

You can still keep engaging in other ways just like you used to before.
posted by MiraK at 10:27 AM on July 31, 2023 [11 favorites]

Best answer: and you also don't let their opinion affect you (this is hard, and will take lots of practice)

Yes, and what I'm learning is that when I care what they think of me, then whatever I try to do next, or whatever I think I'm doing next, it has some of that DARVO energy in it. Less of it, because they're the real DARVO-er, not me. See what I did there? I don't always see it myself.

A mantra that a therapist gave me that seems to help me is, "whatever they're doing that is pissing me off right now, could I silently resolve to do 10 percent less of that myself in the future?" Identifying their behavior and making the silent resolution helps me feel like I am "doing something" about the situation. And seeing how I react to that mantra in the moment, which is rarely a chill, yeah I could stand to do less of that, or more often a mental shriek that I am the aggrieved victim here, is good info for me to have about my energy before I open my mouth.
posted by Former Congressional Representative Lenny Lemming at 2:29 PM on July 31, 2023 [5 favorites]

I have had some success with the “BIFF (brief, informative, friendly, and firm) responses to high-conflict people)” method by Bill Eddy.
posted by meijusa at 5:51 AM on August 1, 2023 [3 favorites]