Best way to digitize vinyl records with my turntable?
June 20, 2023 2:59 PM Subscribe
What's the best way to rip digital versions of my vinyl records? My priority is audio quality: I want the best quality digital copies possible (within reason). I listen to vinyl records on a RP-7000 MK2 turntable, with a Yamaha RX-V6A A/V receiver. Would the built-in preamp in the turntable (or the A/V receiver) be good enough for getting high-fidelity rips? If not, how should I choose a dedicated preamp?
I DJ professionally, and I have a number of vinyl records that are in good condition but were never released in digital form (or are very difficult/expensive to find in digital form). Audio quality is a high priority for me: bad rips might sound fine at home, but then play it over a club sound system with their equipment and it will be a disaster.
Like many DJs, I typically use club's equipment for gigs, and I have my own personal gear at home. I'm open to buying equipment for digitizing, but I want to be efficient about it. Commercial gear would obviously work here, but it would be very expensive and overkill. I know there are dedicated turntables for digitizing, but I would like to avoid getting another one if I can, because I don't need yet another turntable.
What I have:
Turntable: I have a RP-8000 MK2, a high-end turntable for professional DJs.
Pre-amp: This turntable has an integrated pre-amp as well as regular phono outputs. When listening to records at home, I use the latter, fed into my A/V Receiver, a Yamaha RX-V6A.
What I'm not sure about is if the built-in preamp from the turntable is good enough for these purposes, or if I need to get a separate preamp to use. Also, do I need any other hardware (aside from the cables to connect to my computer)?
I DJ professionally, and I have a number of vinyl records that are in good condition but were never released in digital form (or are very difficult/expensive to find in digital form). Audio quality is a high priority for me: bad rips might sound fine at home, but then play it over a club sound system with their equipment and it will be a disaster.
Like many DJs, I typically use club's equipment for gigs, and I have my own personal gear at home. I'm open to buying equipment for digitizing, but I want to be efficient about it. Commercial gear would obviously work here, but it would be very expensive and overkill. I know there are dedicated turntables for digitizing, but I would like to avoid getting another one if I can, because I don't need yet another turntable.
What I have:
Turntable: I have a RP-8000 MK2, a high-end turntable for professional DJs.
Pre-amp: This turntable has an integrated pre-amp as well as regular phono outputs. When listening to records at home, I use the latter, fed into my A/V Receiver, a Yamaha RX-V6A.
What I'm not sure about is if the built-in preamp from the turntable is good enough for these purposes, or if I need to get a separate preamp to use. Also, do I need any other hardware (aside from the cables to connect to my computer)?
1, it's not clear if you have the Reloop 7000 or 8000 – the 8000 has a built-in ADC (analog to digital converter), while the 7000 does not. I imagine you have the 7000, based on your question!
One thing to look into is whether you computer has stereo audio input at all – for instance my MacBook pro does not, and I need to use an external ADC to get audio in successfully. When I was doing more vinyl ripping I ran my TTs through my Denon digital DJ mixer, which has its own ADC and all channels accessible via USB. I was plenty happy with the results.
I agree with offog that the quality of your ADC and your carts is going to make the biggest difference on raw quality. However the threshold for "good enough" is going to be different for everybody; I suggest ripping a few characteristic records with the setup you have and try playing them out, see if you they're good enough or not. Certainly give it a shot before you spend more money on gear!
I have also found that a record weight helps the rips stay clean.
posted by wemayfreeze at 3:50 PM on June 20, 2023
One thing to look into is whether you computer has stereo audio input at all – for instance my MacBook pro does not, and I need to use an external ADC to get audio in successfully. When I was doing more vinyl ripping I ran my TTs through my Denon digital DJ mixer, which has its own ADC and all channels accessible via USB. I was plenty happy with the results.
I agree with offog that the quality of your ADC and your carts is going to make the biggest difference on raw quality. However the threshold for "good enough" is going to be different for everybody; I suggest ripping a few characteristic records with the setup you have and try playing them out, see if you they're good enough or not. Certainly give it a shot before you spend more money on gear!
I have also found that a record weight helps the rips stay clean.
posted by wemayfreeze at 3:50 PM on June 20, 2023
Oh, and I'm not sure you can use your receiver preamp for this, unfortunately. Receiver takes phono in and sends speaker-level out. You need line-level in to your computer/ADC.
posted by wemayfreeze at 4:00 PM on June 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by wemayfreeze at 4:00 PM on June 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Sorry, for the confusion - I have the 8000, not the 7000. I didn't realize the 8000 had a built-in ADC, although I guess it makes sense since it it's used as a DVS. I normally use Rekordbox and the 8000 is technically a Serato accessory so I didn't even think about doing that.
So I could just plug the 8000 into my computer via USB? What software would I then use to "receive" the audio? (Hopefully I can do this without paying for Serato).
One reason I was concerned about the pre-amp is because I know not all DJ equipment is made equally here: for example, the DDJ-1000 allows phono input, but because it's mostly intended for DVS usage with a control record, the audio quality if you try to use that for actual audio records is really bad. Since the Reloop 8000 is also intended to be used with a DVS, I wasn't sure if the pre-amp it provides is similarly "production" quality, although now that I think about it I guess that makes less sense on the turntable side than it does on the mixer/controller side.
The point about the cartridge is a good one: currently I use a cartridge designed for DJ usage, and I almost certainly should get a different cartridge for this.
posted by Mavertan at 4:29 PM on June 20, 2023
So I could just plug the 8000 into my computer via USB? What software would I then use to "receive" the audio? (Hopefully I can do this without paying for Serato).
One reason I was concerned about the pre-amp is because I know not all DJ equipment is made equally here: for example, the DDJ-1000 allows phono input, but because it's mostly intended for DVS usage with a control record, the audio quality if you try to use that for actual audio records is really bad. Since the Reloop 8000 is also intended to be used with a DVS, I wasn't sure if the pre-amp it provides is similarly "production" quality, although now that I think about it I guess that makes less sense on the turntable side than it does on the mixer/controller side.
The point about the cartridge is a good one: currently I use a cartridge designed for DJ usage, and I almost certainly should get a different cartridge for this.
posted by Mavertan at 4:29 PM on June 20, 2023
What software would I then use to "receive" the audio?
Assuming that all you really need to do is capture an entire side's worth of audio, trim off the needle drop and lift, normalize the volume, then split to multiple files based on silence detection: Audacity can do all of that and it's free.
Also, standard CD audio format (2 x 16 bit PCM sampled at 44100Hz) is plenty good enough for digital archiving of audio sourced from vinyl. Going to higher sample rates or more bits per sample will do nothing for you but pointlessly waste disk space.
I see a lot of "ultra high quality" vinyl rips made at 2 x 24 bit 192kHz, apparently done in the belief that this will in some way capture the "magic" of vinyl that has been "lost" since CDs first became a thing, but that's all just self-deluding nonsense. CD audio format is more than capable of preserving every nuance of the distortion, noise and crosstalk that makes vinyl sound like it does.
posted by flabdablet at 10:59 PM on June 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
Assuming that all you really need to do is capture an entire side's worth of audio, trim off the needle drop and lift, normalize the volume, then split to multiple files based on silence detection: Audacity can do all of that and it's free.
Also, standard CD audio format (2 x 16 bit PCM sampled at 44100Hz) is plenty good enough for digital archiving of audio sourced from vinyl. Going to higher sample rates or more bits per sample will do nothing for you but pointlessly waste disk space.
I see a lot of "ultra high quality" vinyl rips made at 2 x 24 bit 192kHz, apparently done in the belief that this will in some way capture the "magic" of vinyl that has been "lost" since CDs first became a thing, but that's all just self-deluding nonsense. CD audio format is more than capable of preserving every nuance of the distortion, noise and crosstalk that makes vinyl sound like it does.
posted by flabdablet at 10:59 PM on June 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
Receiver takes phono in and sends speaker-level out.
But also tape recorder level line out for any preamp, integrated amp or receiver I know. That's the one you use for sending to an ADC/sound card line in.
posted by Stoneshop at 5:25 AM on June 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
But also tape recorder level line out for any preamp, integrated amp or receiver I know. That's the one you use for sending to an ADC/sound card line in.
posted by Stoneshop at 5:25 AM on June 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
But also tape recorder level line out for any preamp, integrated amp or receiver I know.
It looks like Mavertan's amp has something called "PRE OUT" which will work for this, actually. The manual says nothing about using that for recording, but if it's the right level it's the right level. So ya, you can use that into your ADC to try the preamps on the receiver for this!
I'll note too that your thoughts on preamps (and ADCs!) in DJ controllers are spot on – some of them are cheap and not great for vinyl. One thing I've found frustrating is that most of the manufacturers only release basic specs on those and nobody does proper teardowns of DJ equipment to compare chip for chip. Which is why I suggest trying a rip with what you have and using your own ears to judge if it's sufficient.
posted by wemayfreeze at 2:20 PM on June 21, 2023
It looks like Mavertan's amp has something called "PRE OUT" which will work for this, actually. The manual says nothing about using that for recording, but if it's the right level it's the right level. So ya, you can use that into your ADC to try the preamps on the receiver for this!
I'll note too that your thoughts on preamps (and ADCs!) in DJ controllers are spot on – some of them are cheap and not great for vinyl. One thing I've found frustrating is that most of the manufacturers only release basic specs on those and nobody does proper teardowns of DJ equipment to compare chip for chip. Which is why I suggest trying a rip with what you have and using your own ears to judge if it's sufficient.
posted by wemayfreeze at 2:20 PM on June 21, 2023
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If you're trying to get the best possible capture, I would be much more concerned about the quality of the cartridge and stylus (as DJ carts usually have different design concerns than hi-fi carts), and the ADC you're feeding the signal into. It would also do no harm to check your cartridge is properly aligned - you can find printable alignment protractors online.
posted by offog at 3:21 PM on June 20, 2023 [4 favorites]