Is It Ever a Good Idea to Reinitiate Contact?
May 17, 2023 8:36 AM Subscribe
A couple of weeks ago, I posted this question: https://ask.metafilter.com/372512/I-Chose-to-Reconcile-with-Ex-while-Dating-Someone-What-Would-You-Do
I've been working extensively in therapy twice per week, practicing self-soothing, sitting in the discomfort, and learning how to detach. This has been very successful and life-changing already. I have a follow-up question.
Doing all of this work on my own has allowed me to really step back and see the big picture of what I was doing before, and the crux of the issue was what most people commented on: Emotionally investing too much too quickly when first dating someone (particularly men). I believe I've figured out why I was doing this, and have stopped. I am completely happy without a partner and don't need one, but if I meet someone with whom I can potentially see sharing my life, I'll pursue that and want to get to know them.
When I posted the linked question, I initially thought that the "New Person" stopped contacting me because I met with my ex. I didn't tell him that my ex sexually assaulted me; there was already enough I was dumping on him, and didn't need to add that. But what I didn't realize is that he likely stopped contacting me because I was investing and expecting *way* too much too soon. I shouldn't have asked him to talk on the phone after we had spent the entire weekend together. While my feelings about him saying he'll do something and not committing to it were still valid, it was all simply too much.
Coincidentally, earlier this week, a colleague from a school I used to work at (I'm a teacher) contacted me saying he wanted to pick my brain about how to reach the kids as he's a new teacher. Long story short, he was interested in me romantically, and was *extremely* clingy. Non-stop texts throughout the day, constant sexual references (to which I didn't respond), timestamping certain responses of mine and saying how much he's looking forward to doing that thing with me, etc. We met for coffee prior to the extreme cling, and he quickly started idealizing me and putting me on a pedastal, saying how much he liked me and felt I'm a special person who was brought into his life at the right time. Not once did he ask me about my values or life goals, but rather focused on the things I was saying in the present, and became obsessed with the fact that I'm in therapy and working on myself. I shut this down immediately, and told him I'm not looking for a relationship.
I love the Universe so much. This was clearly its way of showing me that this is what I was doing previously when dating (though not as extreme). Now that I've been able to take a step back, everything is clear. If the "New Person" were to reach out (which again, I'm just fine with my life as it is even if he doesn't), I would absolutely apologize for the behavior that I was portraying with the heavy emotional investment. The thing is, I really want to apologize for this anyway, because I didn't understand what I was doing before, and now I do, and that was the problem. I think that's a natural reaction to have when we realize something.
I'm naturally a pursuer/go-getter type, and will at least try rather than sit and wonder what could have been. I'm not afraid of rejection, and the worst that can happen is a "No". When the "New Person" and I connected on the dating app, I had messaged him first. It turned out he's more shy and prefered being reached out to, rather than being the one to initiate or make the first moves (this also applied to dinner decisions, where to stop for gas on the trip, etc.). I've realized this dynamic meshes very well with my personality, as I don't like being indecisive or relying on someone else to make the decisions, so I'm more than happy to make that move. I know one week isn't enough time to know someone. But we did discuss our values, life goals, dealbreakers, and needs, and we aligned well. That's why I want to continue getting to know him. It's not out of infatuation or thinking of who he *could* be. I'm only going off what I've gotten to know of him so far, and he really seemed like someone I could see myself with. That's why I'm still thinking about him. So, my question is: Is it a good idea to be the one to reinitiate contact with him? Should I reach out one more time with a (very brief, neutral) apology, or continue giving him time?
Doing all of this work on my own has allowed me to really step back and see the big picture of what I was doing before, and the crux of the issue was what most people commented on: Emotionally investing too much too quickly when first dating someone (particularly men). I believe I've figured out why I was doing this, and have stopped. I am completely happy without a partner and don't need one, but if I meet someone with whom I can potentially see sharing my life, I'll pursue that and want to get to know them.
When I posted the linked question, I initially thought that the "New Person" stopped contacting me because I met with my ex. I didn't tell him that my ex sexually assaulted me; there was already enough I was dumping on him, and didn't need to add that. But what I didn't realize is that he likely stopped contacting me because I was investing and expecting *way* too much too soon. I shouldn't have asked him to talk on the phone after we had spent the entire weekend together. While my feelings about him saying he'll do something and not committing to it were still valid, it was all simply too much.
Coincidentally, earlier this week, a colleague from a school I used to work at (I'm a teacher) contacted me saying he wanted to pick my brain about how to reach the kids as he's a new teacher. Long story short, he was interested in me romantically, and was *extremely* clingy. Non-stop texts throughout the day, constant sexual references (to which I didn't respond), timestamping certain responses of mine and saying how much he's looking forward to doing that thing with me, etc. We met for coffee prior to the extreme cling, and he quickly started idealizing me and putting me on a pedastal, saying how much he liked me and felt I'm a special person who was brought into his life at the right time. Not once did he ask me about my values or life goals, but rather focused on the things I was saying in the present, and became obsessed with the fact that I'm in therapy and working on myself. I shut this down immediately, and told him I'm not looking for a relationship.
I love the Universe so much. This was clearly its way of showing me that this is what I was doing previously when dating (though not as extreme). Now that I've been able to take a step back, everything is clear. If the "New Person" were to reach out (which again, I'm just fine with my life as it is even if he doesn't), I would absolutely apologize for the behavior that I was portraying with the heavy emotional investment. The thing is, I really want to apologize for this anyway, because I didn't understand what I was doing before, and now I do, and that was the problem. I think that's a natural reaction to have when we realize something.
I'm naturally a pursuer/go-getter type, and will at least try rather than sit and wonder what could have been. I'm not afraid of rejection, and the worst that can happen is a "No". When the "New Person" and I connected on the dating app, I had messaged him first. It turned out he's more shy and prefered being reached out to, rather than being the one to initiate or make the first moves (this also applied to dinner decisions, where to stop for gas on the trip, etc.). I've realized this dynamic meshes very well with my personality, as I don't like being indecisive or relying on someone else to make the decisions, so I'm more than happy to make that move. I know one week isn't enough time to know someone. But we did discuss our values, life goals, dealbreakers, and needs, and we aligned well. That's why I want to continue getting to know him. It's not out of infatuation or thinking of who he *could* be. I'm only going off what I've gotten to know of him so far, and he really seemed like someone I could see myself with. That's why I'm still thinking about him. So, my question is: Is it a good idea to be the one to reinitiate contact with him? Should I reach out one more time with a (very brief, neutral) apology, or continue giving him time?
If you're asking me, I say no. But I also say ask your therapist! Since you're working so hard in therapy, that person will be best positioned to give you a thorough answer that accurately reflects the nuances of the situation and who you are.
posted by BlahLaLa at 8:43 AM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by BlahLaLa at 8:43 AM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: So you're still thinking, planning, speculating, and devoting a bunch of attention (and another AskMe question) to a guy you interacted with for a couple weeks. You are not "completely happy without a partner". You are very much still ruminating on having a partner. You are not yet successful in changing your thought patterns and still seem very much in danger of continuing your patterns of behavior.
Your way-too-fast absolute statements about the success of your therapy are of a piece with your way-too-fast absolute feelings about other people. I strongly suggest you bring this question in its entirety back to therapy with you and talk with a professional about how this pattern doesn't just apply to dating.
tl;dr, you have not changed, you need to keep doing the work and that means a) realizing that your instincts are still going to lead you in the same directions they always have and b) changing those instincts is the work of years, not weeks. Building a healthy relationship with yourself takes at least as much time as building a healthy relationship with other people.
posted by restless_nomad at 8:43 AM on May 17, 2023 [122 favorites]
Your way-too-fast absolute statements about the success of your therapy are of a piece with your way-too-fast absolute feelings about other people. I strongly suggest you bring this question in its entirety back to therapy with you and talk with a professional about how this pattern doesn't just apply to dating.
tl;dr, you have not changed, you need to keep doing the work and that means a) realizing that your instincts are still going to lead you in the same directions they always have and b) changing those instincts is the work of years, not weeks. Building a healthy relationship with yourself takes at least as much time as building a healthy relationship with other people.
posted by restless_nomad at 8:43 AM on May 17, 2023 [122 favorites]
Best answer: Girl you gotta step away. STEP AWAY. You also need to work on sitting with the uncomfortable feeling that someone might not like you or doesn't want to forgive you or just isn't thinking about you--you have to learn to live with this. Stop putting this on him. He made himself clear.
Seconding what restless_nomad said. A couple weeks of therapy isn't enough to change lifelong patterns.
posted by greta simone at 8:46 AM on May 17, 2023 [34 favorites]
Seconding what restless_nomad said. A couple weeks of therapy isn't enough to change lifelong patterns.
posted by greta simone at 8:46 AM on May 17, 2023 [34 favorites]
No, do not reach out to him. You want to apologise again, after just two weeks, for being too emotionally invested back then? That would be a clear sign to me, in his shoes, that you are still too emotionally invested now. I would start to feel anxious about your continued presence in my life and block you, personally--no matter how intense the connection I felt we had.
posted by guessthis at 8:50 AM on May 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by guessthis at 8:50 AM on May 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
Nope, do not reach out.
This is an extinction burst - your brain is trying to trick you back into your old behavior (because this will get you back into your old patters). You're starting to change your patterns and your brain is trying to reassert the old, familiar, "safe", too-intense, drama-generating ways because that's what it knows. You need to quit absolutely. Your ex won't shatter if you don't contact him; just let this all go.
Like, if you decided to quit eating hostess cupcakes, you wouldn't go back and have "just one" after two weeks merely because you were doing fairly well without your daily cupcake, right?
posted by Frowner at 9:00 AM on May 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
This is an extinction burst - your brain is trying to trick you back into your old behavior (because this will get you back into your old patters). You're starting to change your patterns and your brain is trying to reassert the old, familiar, "safe", too-intense, drama-generating ways because that's what it knows. You need to quit absolutely. Your ex won't shatter if you don't contact him; just let this all go.
Like, if you decided to quit eating hostess cupcakes, you wouldn't go back and have "just one" after two weeks merely because you were doing fairly well without your daily cupcake, right?
posted by Frowner at 9:00 AM on May 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
If I were this guy and you contacted me again, I'd block you. Leave him alone and continue working on yourself. Good luck!
posted by emd3737 at 9:02 AM on May 17, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by emd3737 at 9:02 AM on May 17, 2023 [9 favorites]
Yes, read what restless_nomad wrote 10x.
It's been less than 2 weeks since your last questions about New Person. You just went on a few dates with him. Wait 6 months - you probably won't feel any strong urge to reach out to him by then.
posted by coffeecat at 9:04 AM on May 17, 2023 [6 favorites]
It's been less than 2 weeks since your last questions about New Person. You just went on a few dates with him. Wait 6 months - you probably won't feel any strong urge to reach out to him by then.
posted by coffeecat at 9:04 AM on May 17, 2023 [6 favorites]
The thing is, I really want to apologize for this anyway, because I didn't understand what I was doing before, and now I do, and that was the problem. I think that's a natural reaction to have when we realize something.
Having those FEELINGS is a natural reaction. ACTING on them, not so much.
Leave the guy alone.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:05 AM on May 17, 2023 [14 favorites]
Having those FEELINGS is a natural reaction. ACTING on them, not so much.
Leave the guy alone.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:05 AM on May 17, 2023 [14 favorites]
Apologies for Having Done The Thing are meaningless - you need to stop Doing The Thing.
posted by tomboko at 9:05 AM on May 17, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by tomboko at 9:05 AM on May 17, 2023 [14 favorites]
Best answer: Yeah, the way you thought you were in a relationship with someone after a really short period of time? And the way you were invested in someone as your “ex” after a really short period of time?
You’re doing exactly the same with therapy. It’s great that you’ve started seeing new things, but you don’t just suddenly overturn the behaviour patterns of a lifetime in two weeks. Breakthroughs like that happen on a timescale of months to years. As is evidenced by the fact that you still want to contact this guy while telling us that you’re a changed person! Your words proclaim you’re changed, but your behaviour and longings say otherwise.
It’s like you’re living in some kind of warpspeed world compared to the rest of us, where everything happens within days or weeks. That, to me, sounds like anxiety: An absolute intolerance for the idea that you might just have to live with difficult things for a few months while they evolve; a desperation to have everything resolved instantly; an unstoppable urge to reconnect with someone even though you claim with your words that you’re fiiiiiine being single honestly…
Don’t reconnect with the guy. Don’t tell yourself you’ve got it all solved. Take some deep breaths and slow waaaaaaay down with everything, including both therapy and relationships.
posted by penguin pie at 9:21 AM on May 17, 2023 [19 favorites]
You’re doing exactly the same with therapy. It’s great that you’ve started seeing new things, but you don’t just suddenly overturn the behaviour patterns of a lifetime in two weeks. Breakthroughs like that happen on a timescale of months to years. As is evidenced by the fact that you still want to contact this guy while telling us that you’re a changed person! Your words proclaim you’re changed, but your behaviour and longings say otherwise.
It’s like you’re living in some kind of warpspeed world compared to the rest of us, where everything happens within days or weeks. That, to me, sounds like anxiety: An absolute intolerance for the idea that you might just have to live with difficult things for a few months while they evolve; a desperation to have everything resolved instantly; an unstoppable urge to reconnect with someone even though you claim with your words that you’re fiiiiiine being single honestly…
Don’t reconnect with the guy. Don’t tell yourself you’ve got it all solved. Take some deep breaths and slow waaaaaaay down with everything, including both therapy and relationships.
posted by penguin pie at 9:21 AM on May 17, 2023 [19 favorites]
Absolutely not. Do not contact him. This is you attempting to come up with an excuse and/or reason why contacting him again would be okay, actually, and a sign of growth and totally not about wanting to get together and get all emotionally invested again, but that's not what's happening here. I don't mean to say you're doing this maliciously, or as an attempt to deliberately manipulate; it's just that this is a long-standing pattern with you and it will take more than a couple of weeks to break out of it.
You contacting the guy again is the equivalent of giving more air and fuel to a fire that has almost burned itself out. Also, it will do absolutely nothing for the guy other than to probably make him feel uncomfortable and/or anxious. The apology is all about you and your feelings and that's what makes it an excuse for you to insinuate yourself back into a 0 to 60 relationship with him. If I was this guy, I'd be like "okay, great, glad you had this epiphany, but it has nothing to do with me." You are, yet again, seeking to escalate and insinuate an intimacy that is disproportionate to your acquaintance with the guy.
Also, "continue giving him time"? What is this wording? This not-relationship is over. Accept it. DO NOT DATE AGAIN for AT LEAST six months. Figure out what "normal" casual dating is and INTERNALIZE IT. It doesn't matter that you could "see yourself being with him." Figure out your shit properly before attempting yet another red flag-riddled relationship you invest in way too much, which FYI, you are doing again right now with this "oh but we aligned so well after a week." You're not still thinking about him because he's so great, you're still thinking about him because this is what it's always like for you. Until you break that pattern, stop dating. Good job on shutting down the clingy guy, but walk the walk instead of just talking the talk about not looking for a relationship right now.
posted by yasaman at 9:42 AM on May 17, 2023 [13 favorites]
You contacting the guy again is the equivalent of giving more air and fuel to a fire that has almost burned itself out. Also, it will do absolutely nothing for the guy other than to probably make him feel uncomfortable and/or anxious. The apology is all about you and your feelings and that's what makes it an excuse for you to insinuate yourself back into a 0 to 60 relationship with him. If I was this guy, I'd be like "okay, great, glad you had this epiphany, but it has nothing to do with me." You are, yet again, seeking to escalate and insinuate an intimacy that is disproportionate to your acquaintance with the guy.
Also, "continue giving him time"? What is this wording? This not-relationship is over. Accept it. DO NOT DATE AGAIN for AT LEAST six months. Figure out what "normal" casual dating is and INTERNALIZE IT. It doesn't matter that you could "see yourself being with him." Figure out your shit properly before attempting yet another red flag-riddled relationship you invest in way too much, which FYI, you are doing again right now with this "oh but we aligned so well after a week." You're not still thinking about him because he's so great, you're still thinking about him because this is what it's always like for you. Until you break that pattern, stop dating. Good job on shutting down the clingy guy, but walk the walk instead of just talking the talk about not looking for a relationship right now.
posted by yasaman at 9:42 AM on May 17, 2023 [13 favorites]
Get yourself a big blank piece of paper and a pen that feels nice to write with. I like Sakura moonlights myself, but really it's player's choice. Write down everything you'd like to say to this guy. Excruciating detail. You can apologize for your actions, you can share all of the things that you like about him, all of the fleeting thoughts and hopes you built up for the future. I like putting it down in whole thoughts in narrative form, but a bulleted list would be great, too. Get it all down. Sign it with a flourish.
Now I want you to take that letter and cut it into a pretty little snowflake. Get the good scissors, you want it to be intricate. Here are some instructions you can follow. Unfold it and marvel at your creation. Sweep up all the little cutout scraps into a tidy pile. If you've got a yard, take them outside and bury them in the earth. Take your snowflake and hang it up in the window to admire. Enjoy how the light filters through it. Look at it every time you feel like contacting this guy.
When you're ready, you can throw it away.
posted by phunniemee at 9:44 AM on May 17, 2023 [19 favorites]
Now I want you to take that letter and cut it into a pretty little snowflake. Get the good scissors, you want it to be intricate. Here are some instructions you can follow. Unfold it and marvel at your creation. Sweep up all the little cutout scraps into a tidy pile. If you've got a yard, take them outside and bury them in the earth. Take your snowflake and hang it up in the window to admire. Enjoy how the light filters through it. Look at it every time you feel like contacting this guy.
When you're ready, you can throw it away.
posted by phunniemee at 9:44 AM on May 17, 2023 [19 favorites]
Best answer: No. Now it is the time to retreat in horror from all complicated situations, and twice as fast for Creepy Sex Dudes. But also, when you've experienced an over-intense mess with someone, you have to walk away and consider that well poisoned because you can't put that genie, or poison, back in the bottle. It's already on the loose and it will continue to affect those interactions.
I believe I've figured out why I was doing this, and have stopped.
No, this is a thing you can say 1-2 years from now, not today, when you have field-tested it over and over and proved you are actually not doing it. You need to practice living longer timelines for all your emotional arcs - just like you are not in a Relationship after a few weeks of dating, having a therapeutic epiphany is the beginning of a path that has to be walked a good long while before you will have reached the goal identified in that epiphany. Signing up for a gym does not make you strong, nor does going once.
Learning to sit with discomfort is something that even full-time monks spend a lifetime on, you didn't perfect it last week when you heard about it for the first time. You need to sit - writhe, roil, sweat, and grunt - with Never Ever Ever Knowing what might have happened with Creepy Sex Dude or Just Trying To Date Dude or Suspiciously Deported Ex Dude, all the way through the cycle of feelings that arise about them over the next months and maybe years, without giving in and diving back into that chaos, before you can say you have forged your steel.
As a tip: if you won't stop dating for a year or two as frequently suggested here, at least stop telling men you're in therapy. They're not happy you're doing your "work", they think it means you're broken and easily manipulated. People, especially people who think they might get sex/mothering from you, can't be automatically trusted to have your best interests at heart, and I'm not saying you should be deeply cynical and armed with sharp objects every time you get near one, but spend a couple of months reserving judgement and letting them unfold their true selves over time before you assume they absolutely mean 100% well. And anybody who's already proved a predatory nature, like the old coworker? Be done with them, forever, after you see what they are the first time.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:47 AM on May 17, 2023 [34 favorites]
I believe I've figured out why I was doing this, and have stopped.
No, this is a thing you can say 1-2 years from now, not today, when you have field-tested it over and over and proved you are actually not doing it. You need to practice living longer timelines for all your emotional arcs - just like you are not in a Relationship after a few weeks of dating, having a therapeutic epiphany is the beginning of a path that has to be walked a good long while before you will have reached the goal identified in that epiphany. Signing up for a gym does not make you strong, nor does going once.
Learning to sit with discomfort is something that even full-time monks spend a lifetime on, you didn't perfect it last week when you heard about it for the first time. You need to sit - writhe, roil, sweat, and grunt - with Never Ever Ever Knowing what might have happened with Creepy Sex Dude or Just Trying To Date Dude or Suspiciously Deported Ex Dude, all the way through the cycle of feelings that arise about them over the next months and maybe years, without giving in and diving back into that chaos, before you can say you have forged your steel.
As a tip: if you won't stop dating for a year or two as frequently suggested here, at least stop telling men you're in therapy. They're not happy you're doing your "work", they think it means you're broken and easily manipulated. People, especially people who think they might get sex/mothering from you, can't be automatically trusted to have your best interests at heart, and I'm not saying you should be deeply cynical and armed with sharp objects every time you get near one, but spend a couple of months reserving judgement and letting them unfold their true selves over time before you assume they absolutely mean 100% well. And anybody who's already proved a predatory nature, like the old coworker? Be done with them, forever, after you see what they are the first time.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:47 AM on May 17, 2023 [34 favorites]
No. Absolutely not. Leave him alone. I know what it's like to have a Big Therapy Realization and be like, aha!, I understand now, I have changed and will put this all into action moving forward and never do that thing again. But that's not actually how it works. The kind of growth this takes does not happen in the course of one or two weeks and therapy sessions.
Maybe, maybe, if you make consistent progress and growth in this area over a very long time, months but better yet years, someday you can reach out with a sincere apology and demonstrable growth, if you think at that point it's still warranted. Current you does not have the perspective to do that in any way that is meaningful.
posted by Stacey at 10:07 AM on May 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
Maybe, maybe, if you make consistent progress and growth in this area over a very long time, months but better yet years, someday you can reach out with a sincere apology and demonstrable growth, if you think at that point it's still warranted. Current you does not have the perspective to do that in any way that is meaningful.
posted by Stacey at 10:07 AM on May 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
Therapy works in months and years. With deep-seated patterns likely stemming from childhood, definitely years. A few weeks of therapy should make you feel hopeful about changing things, but is galactically unlikely to be enough time to identify patterns, explore the "why" and/or "how" of the pattern, practice new behaviors, troubleshoot new behaviors, fail with new behaviors, adapt new behaviors so that they work better for you, recognize when old behaviors are creeping in and pretending to be new behaviors, and get really solid on new behaviors.
It's great that you're feeling like you're making progress! You likely really are! This is the first few steps of a long journey, though. It sounds like you may be doing to yourself the thing you're doing to the people you date, deciding that everything is perfect and solved and forever-and-ever-amen after just a few hours. Slow everything way down here.
posted by lapis at 10:08 AM on May 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
It's great that you're feeling like you're making progress! You likely really are! This is the first few steps of a long journey, though. It sounds like you may be doing to yourself the thing you're doing to the people you date, deciding that everything is perfect and solved and forever-and-ever-amen after just a few hours. Slow everything way down here.
posted by lapis at 10:08 AM on May 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
Best answer: I believe I've figured out why I was doing this, and have stopped.
The fact that you're even asking this question means that no, you HAVEN'T stopped.
The only reason you're even thinking of doing this is because you feel all icky right now - and you want him to say "oh, it's okay" because maybe that would make you feel less icky. But that's not an apology for him - it's an apology to stop you from feeling icky, and that's not fair to him.
And you know how your therapist is trying to work with you on sitting in the discomfort? This is what your therapist means. Sit in that discomfort and find a way to fix it on your own, instead of offloading that onto the guy with a quick-fix request for forgiveness.
"But if I'm apologizing, isn't that good?" No - not if the reason you're apologizing is because you're feeling uncomfortable about what you did and you're hoping that someone forgiving you will make you feel less icky. That's not apologizing, that's dumping your discomfort on him and hoping he'll magically take it away so you can feel better. that's not fair to him.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:11 AM on May 17, 2023 [17 favorites]
The fact that you're even asking this question means that no, you HAVEN'T stopped.
The only reason you're even thinking of doing this is because you feel all icky right now - and you want him to say "oh, it's okay" because maybe that would make you feel less icky. But that's not an apology for him - it's an apology to stop you from feeling icky, and that's not fair to him.
And you know how your therapist is trying to work with you on sitting in the discomfort? This is what your therapist means. Sit in that discomfort and find a way to fix it on your own, instead of offloading that onto the guy with a quick-fix request for forgiveness.
"But if I'm apologizing, isn't that good?" No - not if the reason you're apologizing is because you're feeling uncomfortable about what you did and you're hoping that someone forgiving you will make you feel less icky. That's not apologizing, that's dumping your discomfort on him and hoping he'll magically take it away so you can feel better. that's not fair to him.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:11 AM on May 17, 2023 [17 favorites]
Best answer: I'm going to be very plain, because you could stand to hear this, but I do not mean to be unkind.
Your partner switcheroo post was nine days ago. An open carton of buttermilk can stay in the fridge for longer than that before it goes off.
It might be a good time to stop treating week-by-week fluctuations as milestones.
You need to chill out and work on yourself, for like... six more months.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:20 AM on May 17, 2023 [58 favorites]
Your partner switcheroo post was nine days ago. An open carton of buttermilk can stay in the fridge for longer than that before it goes off.
It might be a good time to stop treating week-by-week fluctuations as milestones.
You need to chill out and work on yourself, for like... six more months.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:20 AM on May 17, 2023 [58 favorites]
A couple of weeks ago, I posted this question: . . . I've been working extensively in therapy twice per week
so...four therapy sessions? possibly five? Tops?
Just as "going on three dates" isn't "being in a relationship," doing 5 therapies isn't "fixing my deep-seated issues with extensive support."
Do you see how you're still doing the exact same thing, applying an absurdly accelerated timeline to a slow, gradual process? Only you've transferred your forced acceleration of timelines over to your therapist instead of that guy. (While also still fixating on that guy!)
I'm naturally a pursuer/go-getter type,. . . I don't like being indecisive or relying on someone else to make the decisions
OR, and hear me out: you have tremendous anxiety that makes any kind of silence, downtime, or inactivity unbearable to you, and you spend your entire life frantically blowing things up to avoid having to spend time with your own thoughts.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:41 AM on May 17, 2023 [55 favorites]
so...four therapy sessions? possibly five? Tops?
Just as "going on three dates" isn't "being in a relationship," doing 5 therapies isn't "fixing my deep-seated issues with extensive support."
Do you see how you're still doing the exact same thing, applying an absurdly accelerated timeline to a slow, gradual process? Only you've transferred your forced acceleration of timelines over to your therapist instead of that guy. (While also still fixating on that guy!)
I'm naturally a pursuer/go-getter type,. . . I don't like being indecisive or relying on someone else to make the decisions
OR, and hear me out: you have tremendous anxiety that makes any kind of silence, downtime, or inactivity unbearable to you, and you spend your entire life frantically blowing things up to avoid having to spend time with your own thoughts.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:41 AM on May 17, 2023 [55 favorites]
Best answer: As a tip: if you won't stop dating for a year or two as frequently suggested here, at least stop telling men you're in therapy.
I strongly second this, and will give another reason for why: I got the impression from your last question that you told new guy about being therapy and working on yourself pretty much right away (and that he was in therapy too). Respectfully, this is a red flag, not because of the fact of being in therapy or working on yourself--there's nothing wrong with it! it's a good thing!--but because you're talking about it with a near-stranger in ways that are, presumably, more than a passing reference. It's part of your pattern of escalating emotional investment and intimacy in a way that's disproportionate to the relationship at hand. It seems like you really value honesty and openness, but I want to gently suggest that you're using that as an excuse to engage in boundary-crossing and boundary-pushing behaviors in the name of honesty and openness.
You got a taste of how uncomfortable it is to be on the other side of that. Really sit with that discomfort, and consider all the ways you replicate that pattern with other people. And while you do that, again, I cannot emphasize this strongly enough, DO NOT DATE, and do NOT contact new guy or any exes.
posted by yasaman at 10:50 AM on May 17, 2023 [13 favorites]
I strongly second this, and will give another reason for why: I got the impression from your last question that you told new guy about being therapy and working on yourself pretty much right away (and that he was in therapy too). Respectfully, this is a red flag, not because of the fact of being in therapy or working on yourself--there's nothing wrong with it! it's a good thing!--but because you're talking about it with a near-stranger in ways that are, presumably, more than a passing reference. It's part of your pattern of escalating emotional investment and intimacy in a way that's disproportionate to the relationship at hand. It seems like you really value honesty and openness, but I want to gently suggest that you're using that as an excuse to engage in boundary-crossing and boundary-pushing behaviors in the name of honesty and openness.
You got a taste of how uncomfortable it is to be on the other side of that. Really sit with that discomfort, and consider all the ways you replicate that pattern with other people. And while you do that, again, I cannot emphasize this strongly enough, DO NOT DATE, and do NOT contact new guy or any exes.
posted by yasaman at 10:50 AM on May 17, 2023 [13 favorites]
Best answer: So, here's something that will be uncomfortable to think about. Let's say that clingy, cringe-y former colleague didn't reach out to you for two or three days or even a week. You'd probably be relieved, right? And then imagine that in a week, he did reach out with a big overwrought apology. You might think, "Omg, this guy again? He's just looking for an excuse to initiate contact. I thought I was clear that I didn't want to date him. Now he's asking me to help tend to his feelings as a way to reconnect. I don't want that. UGH!"
Think about how you'd feel hearing from clingy guy, and then think of someone feeling that way about you. UGGGHHHH, awful, right? So don't reach out to New Person. Don't be clingy former coworker guy. It is absolutely you continuing the same pattern.
Because here's the thing: you don't owe him an apology! It would be a reconnection attempt, just advanced, with therapy speak. The person to apologize to and be gentle and thoughtful with is yourself, not any of these dudes. They are fine. Your apology wouldn't do anything for them. All you did was ... be a bit more excited about him than he was about you. That's not a major relationship crime, you know?
The closure you want is something only you can give yourself.
A helpful metaphor for an anxious attachment style break-up is the rubber band: the further you are from your attachment figure, the more strongly you feel the pull back to them. Right now you are bargaining with yourself to come up with a reason to get back in touch with New Person. "I've learned so much! I'm so enlightened now! Maybe if I apologized, he would realize how advanced I am now and remember how much he likes me so we could actually have that relationship I fantasized about!" But really, it's that rubber band getting stretched and pulling you back to him the more you move away. But that's a sign that you are moving way. So this is the discomfort: you have to sit with the stretchy rubber band.
Some therapist on TikTok once said something that really resonated with me: the hardest dating situations to move past emotionally can be the ones that ended pretty quickly. If you have dated someone for a long time, you at least know some of the bad stuff about them, no matter how hard the break up is. But in early dating, most of our relationship is based on fantasy and projection because we are all on our best behavior and we are flooded with feel-good and sex hormones that are incredibly energizing. It can be really tricky when something ends quickly because we are breaking up with a fantasy of perfection that would never have lasted if we had dated them.
You are doing good work with your therapist. Something else good to do: delete New Person's phone number and other contact info from your phone; unmatch from him on dating apps and social media. That doesn't preclude him reaching out if he ever wants to, but it keeps you from reaching out to him. That's for the best.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:57 AM on May 17, 2023 [18 favorites]
Think about how you'd feel hearing from clingy guy, and then think of someone feeling that way about you. UGGGHHHH, awful, right? So don't reach out to New Person. Don't be clingy former coworker guy. It is absolutely you continuing the same pattern.
Because here's the thing: you don't owe him an apology! It would be a reconnection attempt, just advanced, with therapy speak. The person to apologize to and be gentle and thoughtful with is yourself, not any of these dudes. They are fine. Your apology wouldn't do anything for them. All you did was ... be a bit more excited about him than he was about you. That's not a major relationship crime, you know?
The closure you want is something only you can give yourself.
A helpful metaphor for an anxious attachment style break-up is the rubber band: the further you are from your attachment figure, the more strongly you feel the pull back to them. Right now you are bargaining with yourself to come up with a reason to get back in touch with New Person. "I've learned so much! I'm so enlightened now! Maybe if I apologized, he would realize how advanced I am now and remember how much he likes me so we could actually have that relationship I fantasized about!" But really, it's that rubber band getting stretched and pulling you back to him the more you move away. But that's a sign that you are moving way. So this is the discomfort: you have to sit with the stretchy rubber band.
Some therapist on TikTok once said something that really resonated with me: the hardest dating situations to move past emotionally can be the ones that ended pretty quickly. If you have dated someone for a long time, you at least know some of the bad stuff about them, no matter how hard the break up is. But in early dating, most of our relationship is based on fantasy and projection because we are all on our best behavior and we are flooded with feel-good and sex hormones that are incredibly energizing. It can be really tricky when something ends quickly because we are breaking up with a fantasy of perfection that would never have lasted if we had dated them.
You are doing good work with your therapist. Something else good to do: delete New Person's phone number and other contact info from your phone; unmatch from him on dating apps and social media. That doesn't preclude him reaching out if he ever wants to, but it keeps you from reaching out to him. That's for the best.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:57 AM on May 17, 2023 [18 favorites]
NINE DAYS. It's been NINE DAYS. Step away from the keyboard and your thoughts about this guy. In the real world that is nothing. It is the blink of an eye. You have barely even begun anything resembling a therapeutic journey and you are in absolutely no way any different than you were nine days ago.
Write back in NINE MONTHS and tell us how you're doing. If you still want to reach out and contact any of these guys - and I hope you won't - at that point then maybe you can talk to your therapist about considering it. Until then, no. Absolutely not. This internet stranger does not give you permission. You need to spend real time working on yourself, and, as I believe I have said to you before, real time is not measured in days or weeks.
posted by mygothlaundry at 12:07 PM on May 17, 2023 [9 favorites]
Write back in NINE MONTHS and tell us how you're doing. If you still want to reach out and contact any of these guys - and I hope you won't - at that point then maybe you can talk to your therapist about considering it. Until then, no. Absolutely not. This internet stranger does not give you permission. You need to spend real time working on yourself, and, as I believe I have said to you before, real time is not measured in days or weeks.
posted by mygothlaundry at 12:07 PM on May 17, 2023 [9 favorites]
Just one other aside, apart from all the stuff about your accelerated timelines for everything -
This guy is not waiting for an apology for you.
If he was, he would have been in touch and asked “WTF happened there?”
He hasn’t done that - he’s stepped away and hasn’t contacted you. That tells you all you need to know about what he wants and needs from you right now. He’s not sitting there pining and longing for you to apologise to him. He’s off doing his own thing and has put your brief fling behind him.
The idea you have in your head that he’s awaiting or needing an apology, that the universe is unbalanced until you try and explain yourself, is actually you longing for contact, you longing for someone else not to think badly of you. You can take that into therapy as a great thing to work on - both identifying accurately the source of the urge to contact him, and developing the resilience and methods to deal with those kind of urges within yourself, not through other people.
posted by penguin pie at 12:24 PM on May 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
This guy is not waiting for an apology for you.
If he was, he would have been in touch and asked “WTF happened there?”
He hasn’t done that - he’s stepped away and hasn’t contacted you. That tells you all you need to know about what he wants and needs from you right now. He’s not sitting there pining and longing for you to apologise to him. He’s off doing his own thing and has put your brief fling behind him.
The idea you have in your head that he’s awaiting or needing an apology, that the universe is unbalanced until you try and explain yourself, is actually you longing for contact, you longing for someone else not to think badly of you. You can take that into therapy as a great thing to work on - both identifying accurately the source of the urge to contact him, and developing the resilience and methods to deal with those kind of urges within yourself, not through other people.
posted by penguin pie at 12:24 PM on May 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
We don't know. Ask your therapist.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:34 PM on May 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:34 PM on May 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
That’s a great question to explore, over a long period of time, with your therapist!
I think expecting us to answer it conclusively here and now as a bunch of strangers on the internet who don’t know you, is more of the same (needing everything sorted instantly).
FWIW, I used to be a reporter on a daily paper, which is definitely warpspeed and constantly changing, and I don’t think it seeped over into my life in this way, so it’s definitely possible (it did seep over in other, unhealthy, mostly anxious ways, so I’m not taking the high ground here!).
Patience, and therapy.
Neither we, nor you, can solve this right now, but you have some great leads to follow with your therapist over the next few months.
posted by penguin pie at 12:35 PM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
I think expecting us to answer it conclusively here and now as a bunch of strangers on the internet who don’t know you, is more of the same (needing everything sorted instantly).
FWIW, I used to be a reporter on a daily paper, which is definitely warpspeed and constantly changing, and I don’t think it seeped over into my life in this way, so it’s definitely possible (it did seep over in other, unhealthy, mostly anxious ways, so I’m not taking the high ground here!).
Patience, and therapy.
Neither we, nor you, can solve this right now, but you have some great leads to follow with your therapist over the next few months.
posted by penguin pie at 12:35 PM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
The worst part is that this feels like what our entire society has become, so I feel like I've needed to ADAPT NOW and FAST in order to simply survive.
I know exactly how this feels. It's really stressful. Mine was anxiety related, especially when I had feelings of... scarcity, of running out of time. You are on the right track working with a therapist, finding ways to get things to slow down. For me, this means taking a hiatus from things that take up a lot of time & mental space, at least as much as I'm able, and realizing how well most of those things manage to continue on their own even without my intervention.
I think you also have a lot of feelings -- which is not a bad thing! -- but it sounds like maybe you panic a little when you don't have a place to put them, so you're trying to place that apology asap so you can let it go. If it helps, try this: think about that apology, hold it calmly in your hand like a bird, like a flame, and honor it in your NEXT relationships.
posted by mochapickle at 12:46 PM on May 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
I know exactly how this feels. It's really stressful. Mine was anxiety related, especially when I had feelings of... scarcity, of running out of time. You are on the right track working with a therapist, finding ways to get things to slow down. For me, this means taking a hiatus from things that take up a lot of time & mental space, at least as much as I'm able, and realizing how well most of those things manage to continue on their own even without my intervention.
I think you also have a lot of feelings -- which is not a bad thing! -- but it sounds like maybe you panic a little when you don't have a place to put them, so you're trying to place that apology asap so you can let it go. If it helps, try this: think about that apology, hold it calmly in your hand like a bird, like a flame, and honor it in your NEXT relationships.
posted by mochapickle at 12:46 PM on May 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
Best answer: You ask a great question! You are so thoughtful and reflective, and that’s a beautiful thing — with a partner who is deserving! All these guys sound awful. It’s not you: unfortunately, there are a lot of trash people out there and the best we can do is stay strong and shield ourselves. It gets easier with time and practice!
I am also someone who always wants to understand WHY!!?! I have mild OCD and PTSD — and I’m a teacher <3 like you — so this is a central theme in my life, sometimes to my detriment. Fortunately I’ve leaned in to these diagnoses and have amazing support and validation finally, especially from my therapist and psychiatrist. I actually only see the former occasionally as I’ve been doing so well! One big lesson I’ve learned is that sometimes there is no why: we can analyze stuff to death, look for hints in childhood or apply every theory out there. But in the end, we don’t know and we don’t even have to know: we just have to understand it wasn’t right and trust ourselves to walk away, believing that there’s something eventually better out there (including being single!) and we’ll learn to recognize it. It’s like having faith in ourselves and learning to trust our own judgment so the crappy people and things are secondary, not the the main focus. You were wise to walk away. I totally get the urge to go back. If you do, it won’t be good but I won’t judge you because we’re human and it often takes many tries. If you can hold out and let this urge pass, as you’ve been doing so well, you will probably be glad you did sooner or later. You’ve got this!!!
posted by smorgasbord at 1:10 PM on May 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
I am also someone who always wants to understand WHY!!?! I have mild OCD and PTSD — and I’m a teacher <3 like you — so this is a central theme in my life, sometimes to my detriment. Fortunately I’ve leaned in to these diagnoses and have amazing support and validation finally, especially from my therapist and psychiatrist. I actually only see the former occasionally as I’ve been doing so well! One big lesson I’ve learned is that sometimes there is no why: we can analyze stuff to death, look for hints in childhood or apply every theory out there. But in the end, we don’t know and we don’t even have to know: we just have to understand it wasn’t right and trust ourselves to walk away, believing that there’s something eventually better out there (including being single!) and we’ll learn to recognize it. It’s like having faith in ourselves and learning to trust our own judgment so the crappy people and things are secondary, not the the main focus. You were wise to walk away. I totally get the urge to go back. If you do, it won’t be good but I won’t judge you because we’re human and it often takes many tries. If you can hold out and let this urge pass, as you’ve been doing so well, you will probably be glad you did sooner or later. You’ve got this!!!
posted by smorgasbord at 1:10 PM on May 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
so I feel like I've needed to ADAPT NOW and FAST in order to simply survive.
This sounds like anxiety talking. It's also beneficial to pause and breathe, and just be without overanalyzing.
posted by Sparky Buttons at 1:20 PM on May 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
This sounds like anxiety talking. It's also beneficial to pause and breathe, and just be without overanalyzing.
posted by Sparky Buttons at 1:20 PM on May 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
Something I am still working on: feeling bad doesn't mean I have to take action. Feeling bad doesn't mean someone else did something wrong. Feeling bad doesn't mean I have to change something so it doesn't happen again. Sometimes we go out with friends and are sad because of unrelated reasons and then we go home and cry and feel sadder. But that doesn't mean our friends did anything wrong or we need to change the situation. Sometimes it means we have to get used to feeling sad and know that it will probably pass.
That is sitting in discomfort.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:37 PM on May 17, 2023 [14 favorites]
That is sitting in discomfort.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:37 PM on May 17, 2023 [14 favorites]
I am completely happy without a partner and don't need one, but if I meet someone with whom I can potentially see sharing a few meals, I'll pursue that and want to get to know them . Perhaps try this on for size first? Maybe after several months have gone by?
posted by kate4914 at 1:39 PM on May 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by kate4914 at 1:39 PM on May 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
Nthing don't reach out to this guy. Let him be.
I realize that you are in a mode where you are just starting therapy, and looking to work on yourself (that's great!), and others have commented on the speed/timing/anxiety connection. I want to add that not everything needs to have meaning ascribed to it. Some creepy creep being a creep at you is not The Universe showing you the error of your ways or providing a new lens through which to analyze your own behavior.
Sometimes social interactions are just bad or people are just creeps and it doesn't mean anything beyond that. This may also be tied to anxiety -- wanting things to make sense and ascribing some sort of order or moral value to a thing as a way to avoid the void, the uncomfortable feeling, if that makes sense.
posted by sk932 at 1:42 PM on May 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
I realize that you are in a mode where you are just starting therapy, and looking to work on yourself (that's great!), and others have commented on the speed/timing/anxiety connection. I want to add that not everything needs to have meaning ascribed to it. Some creepy creep being a creep at you is not The Universe showing you the error of your ways or providing a new lens through which to analyze your own behavior.
Sometimes social interactions are just bad or people are just creeps and it doesn't mean anything beyond that. This may also be tied to anxiety -- wanting things to make sense and ascribing some sort of order or moral value to a thing as a way to avoid the void, the uncomfortable feeling, if that makes sense.
posted by sk932 at 1:42 PM on May 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
This guy is not waiting for an apology for you.
If he was, he would have been in touch and asked “WTF happened there?”
I came to say this. The guy has dropped the rope. He knows what he's doing. Leave him be.
It's great that you are seeing a good therapist, but it will take longer than a couple of weeks for what you need to really sink in. Please don't sabotage yourself by getting caught up in this kind of spiral again.
posted by rpfields at 1:58 PM on May 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
If he was, he would have been in touch and asked “WTF happened there?”
I came to say this. The guy has dropped the rope. He knows what he's doing. Leave him be.
It's great that you are seeing a good therapist, but it will take longer than a couple of weeks for what you need to really sink in. Please don't sabotage yourself by getting caught up in this kind of spiral again.
posted by rpfields at 1:58 PM on May 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
Late to the party here, but I agree with pretty much everyone. Don't contact the guy.
And, oh yes, I understand the urge; there are a few phone calls I wish i could retract (thank goodness I am old and it was before texts and emails).
I had to comment on this:
"I love the Universe so much. This was clearly its way of showing me that this is what I was doing previously when dating (though not as extreme)."
The universe (whatever that even means) is not “clearly” showing you anything. I feel this is part of your thinking that others have identified--everything is presented as extreme. I suggest you will do better framing the experience as, to use a well-known Buddhist quote, “When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.” You were able to learn from the clingy colleague dude.
Not sure if this is clear or even helpful, keep working with your therapy and give yourself time alone, you are worth it.
posted by rhonzo at 4:25 PM on May 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
And, oh yes, I understand the urge; there are a few phone calls I wish i could retract (thank goodness I am old and it was before texts and emails).
I had to comment on this:
"I love the Universe so much. This was clearly its way of showing me that this is what I was doing previously when dating (though not as extreme)."
The universe (whatever that even means) is not “clearly” showing you anything. I feel this is part of your thinking that others have identified--everything is presented as extreme. I suggest you will do better framing the experience as, to use a well-known Buddhist quote, “When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.” You were able to learn from the clingy colleague dude.
Not sure if this is clear or even helpful, keep working with your therapy and give yourself time alone, you are worth it.
posted by rhonzo at 4:25 PM on May 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
A lot of good advice here and I'm not going to repeat it.
What I *am* going to do is congratulate you on asking this question. It's clear that you're learning to be more moderate in your actions and stopping to double check your thinking is an important step.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:42 PM on May 17, 2023 [14 favorites]
What I *am* going to do is congratulate you on asking this question. It's clear that you're learning to be more moderate in your actions and stopping to double check your thinking is an important step.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:42 PM on May 17, 2023 [14 favorites]
An apology should be for the benefit of the wronged party - to make them feel better.
You clearly want to apologize for your benefit - to make yourself feel better.
He obviously does not want to hear from you. What you are offering is not a genuine apology.
You have not achieved what you think you have achieved with regard to your own self awareness. Keep working on that without messing with other people.
Do not contact him.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 6:05 PM on May 17, 2023 [9 favorites]
You clearly want to apologize for your benefit - to make yourself feel better.
He obviously does not want to hear from you. What you are offering is not a genuine apology.
You have not achieved what you think you have achieved with regard to your own self awareness. Keep working on that without messing with other people.
Do not contact him.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 6:05 PM on May 17, 2023 [9 favorites]
Best answer: My advice is also to stop thinking of this as "giving him time" and think of it as "respecting his boundaries" because it is really presumptuous -- and not a sign of growth -- that you are still thinking of this in terms of what you want and how you feel, and not what this person is telling you.
No answer is an answer.
posted by sm1tten at 6:20 PM on May 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
No answer is an answer.
posted by sm1tten at 6:20 PM on May 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
You know, every time a woman asks, "Should I reach out to the guy?" the answer is always going to be no, every time. There are reasons for that. If you have to ask, the answer is no. No good comes from reaching out to a guy.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:03 PM on May 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:03 PM on May 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
It turned out he's more shy lazy and prefered being reached out to having someone else do all the work, rather than being the one to initiate or make the first moves (this also applied to dinner decisions, where to stop for gas on the trip, etc.).
FTFY.
Yep, I'm totally judging this stranger you like. You want to make all the decisions for the rest of your life? Then keep chasing people like that, but beware: they turn into this.
posted by inexorably_forward at 2:21 AM on May 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
FTFY.
Yep, I'm totally judging this stranger you like. You want to make all the decisions for the rest of your life? Then keep chasing people like that, but beware: they turn into this.
posted by inexorably_forward at 2:21 AM on May 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
This is a bit tangential, but oh boy when you say here that you are a teacher a lot of recognition bells went off for me.
I sit in classrooms and watch lessons many times over as a supervisor in post graduate teacher programmes. Over the years I have learned to see the waves of the novice teacher’s psychology that shows in their relationship to education, to constructive advice, to the students and colleagues. A teacher is like everyone else, affected by their/our developmental history and often this developmental history led us into this career. An old book by Alice Miller called “Drama of the Gifted Child” for example, gives some reasons for this. The best thing you can do for your life, and your career is to look at your own story. One of the key aspects of good teaching is calm and *realistic* reflection on the learning and teaching processes, and on our adult teaching persona in a team of professionals, in a thousands of years old profession and most importantly with younger people on their own developmental journey.
Reflection is hard. Your questions do not show realistic reflection and you need to sit with a therapist longer to get a handle on how to be a resilient reflector. You can practice reflection by going back to the basics you’ve been taught to consider in your teaching programmes.
Go back to the drawing board in your relationships in your classrooms. How do you approach making students safe to share who they are? How are you both honest and authoritative [not authoritarian] with your class members? How do you build a role within a faculty? How do you approach professional development? Do you just make people pay attention to you in whatever anxious way comes to your head first? No, you are trained not to do that, and you can manage not to do that professionally right? What skills can you reflect on to use in your personal relationships?
Teaching was a profession in which I learned a lot about how to Be. It was the reflective process, mainly about how to best meet the needs of my students and my colleagues to have a self-assured, authentic, knowledgeable, other-focussed, kind and psychologically robust person in their lives.
It might not be for you, but when I went through may be a similar kind of emotional space [an embarrassing early 20s divorce that was more public than it should have been in my city], I focussed on my meaningful work, and I made myself reflect and grow within this key area. Not by making other people do it, hear about it or even know about it. By journaling a lot and committing to therapy *for several years*
posted by honey-barbara at 4:27 AM on May 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
I sit in classrooms and watch lessons many times over as a supervisor in post graduate teacher programmes. Over the years I have learned to see the waves of the novice teacher’s psychology that shows in their relationship to education, to constructive advice, to the students and colleagues. A teacher is like everyone else, affected by their/our developmental history and often this developmental history led us into this career. An old book by Alice Miller called “Drama of the Gifted Child” for example, gives some reasons for this. The best thing you can do for your life, and your career is to look at your own story. One of the key aspects of good teaching is calm and *realistic* reflection on the learning and teaching processes, and on our adult teaching persona in a team of professionals, in a thousands of years old profession and most importantly with younger people on their own developmental journey.
Reflection is hard. Your questions do not show realistic reflection and you need to sit with a therapist longer to get a handle on how to be a resilient reflector. You can practice reflection by going back to the basics you’ve been taught to consider in your teaching programmes.
Go back to the drawing board in your relationships in your classrooms. How do you approach making students safe to share who they are? How are you both honest and authoritative [not authoritarian] with your class members? How do you build a role within a faculty? How do you approach professional development? Do you just make people pay attention to you in whatever anxious way comes to your head first? No, you are trained not to do that, and you can manage not to do that professionally right? What skills can you reflect on to use in your personal relationships?
Teaching was a profession in which I learned a lot about how to Be. It was the reflective process, mainly about how to best meet the needs of my students and my colleagues to have a self-assured, authentic, knowledgeable, other-focussed, kind and psychologically robust person in their lives.
It might not be for you, but when I went through may be a similar kind of emotional space [an embarrassing early 20s divorce that was more public than it should have been in my city], I focussed on my meaningful work, and I made myself reflect and grow within this key area. Not by making other people do it, hear about it or even know about it. By journaling a lot and committing to therapy *for several years*
posted by honey-barbara at 4:27 AM on May 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: adapt RIGHT NOW to this new plan that changed within the last 5 seconds, and be constantly flexible and never able to rely on anything being consistent
Well sure...administratively. But administration isn't who you're actually teaching, is it?
You can't teach haiku before you teach what syllables are. You shouldn't teach 2000-level electrical engineering to 9-year-olds OR to freshmen, unless you like when things explode and people get hurt. The school isn't going to put on all the plays or play all the football games in the first week of September. You can't declare spring break on October 1. The school year or semester unfolds, in a REMARKABLY predictable timeline that has fluctuated very little in 100 years, no matter how chaotic your management is.
When you first meet somebody and connect like whoa and you have SO much in common and your loins are burning in a good way and you are absolutely sure this is your Forever? That's the first day of school. Everybody's on their best behavior and still figuring out the rules. Just because you get a room full of students who are - to various extents - buzzing about the new year and new clothes and new notebooks and the hope having a shiny new cooler identity and making new better friends... that doesn't mean you can hand them the final exams and graduate them right then. It's not time for that yet.
Over the first weeks and months of the school year or semester, more of the students' real personalities (and the implications of their lives outside school) are going to emerge. You're going to suss out who isn't getting enough food or sleep, who has other problems at home, who has learning disabilities that haven't been appropriately identified and accommodated, who has anxiety, who's coming back from visitation weekends with the non-default parent with trauma or their physical needs unmet, who just flat doesn't want to be at school for some reason.
This is exactly like any kind of relationship because the same stuff emerges with potential friends/partners/coworkers over TIME, real time, calendar days and months and years, NOT anxiety time. There is no way for you to know on the first day exactly who all the students are and how they learn, and it would be inexcusably shitty pedagogy to assume you do. You cannot know much about the individuals in those seats until they've had some chance to warm up, get settled, get comfortable with you, and start operating in a more baseline mode and going through the rhythms of their own real lives.
If anything, I'd argue you are not applying the agility demanded of teaching to your dating life, unless you really are doing your students the disservice of deciding you know exactly who they are in the first week and promoting them to the next grade. You HAVE to give people time to show you who they are under a multitude of circumstances, rather than going all-in when they seem so great in the shiny-and-new stage, because when you do that you're just having a relationship with a projection - or, I suspect in your case, an imaginary emergency flotation device.
You're denying the realness of these men, and it's frequently meaning you overlook a field of red flags but it also means you are going to overlook anyone who isn't coming in (inappropriately!) white-hot but instead IS a balanced nuanced human being with healthy boundaries who is going to unfold more carefully. You are not giving your potential partners a chance to be real people. You're not walking away when the real people they are turn out to be dangerous or crap. You aren't basing your trust in people in any experience, but in the fact you have a fizzy feeling.
Feelings are not a mandate. Limerence is not precognition. Dating is pre-loaded with a lot of big anticipatory anxious horny intense feelings, and you can feel exactly as fizzy about an active serial killer as you can about someone who turns out, in a 23AndMe twist, to be your half-brother. Fizzy does not mean forever is in the cards. Fizzy just means carbonation, the bubbles will die down after a bit and you will start to see the real surface. (And putting oil on the bubbles is an artificial means of speeding up the reaction; it's not a genuine experience.)
Fizzy does not mean someone has shown up to save you.
You can also have a lot of fizzy feelings from therapy, and again it's just fizz and you're not really going to even begin to know anything until the bubbles settle. It's the beginning.
I do actually believe in The Universe, and I do think you were granted a little Universal warning/correction/lesson, but you've rushed past the instruction to a conclusion instead of focusing on the homework.
Just...slow down. Just to start, slow the hell down. If you must date, know on the first date that you will not have enough data to know if this is a GOOD situation for three months minimum, but that the experiment could fail at any second and if so you must end it.
Try letting your feelings unfold fuck-sober for at least couple of weeks, and if you are using any other substances maybe also sober on those too.
Set a plan with your therapist that you want to do a check-in on yourself - this is not a session to gush about how great someone's many red flags are - in any new relationship every week the first month and at least two weeks the second and third. Set an expectation in yourself that no relationship can feasibly reach the "serious" stage for three months bare minimum (and in your case, 5 nights out of 7 should be sleeping alone for at least those 3 months - no playing house, stop aggressively "pursuing" which I think actually means using people like a drug so you don't have to deal with reality), with a reminder that most people don't set a firm intention for permanence until one or two years have passed. There's a reason for that.
And then yes, based on your past questions, you don't seem very good at "dating around" and that's okay - many people aren't or don't have the bandwidth - but understand this is you choosing your limitations and not instant monogamous marriage. You need to choose for yourself to take things more slowly and carefully. You helping yourself take things slow, you recognizing your own toxic patterns, you trying to navigate the world with stronger boundaries is entirely about putting yourself and your safety and emotional wellbeing first, it's not a shortcut to whatever it is you think a relationship is going to fix in you.
Rule number one remains: immediately walk away from complexity. One of my internal metrics developed over many years in AskMe is that no relationship question should really need more than one paragraph per year together. If you find your story with someone new - or a new job, a new car, a new neighborhood, a new pet - is turning into an essay, something is wrong. Stop right there, it's time for a serious assessment, you're in trouble, you need to step back.
posted by Lyn Never at 5:07 AM on May 18, 2023 [20 favorites]
Well sure...administratively. But administration isn't who you're actually teaching, is it?
You can't teach haiku before you teach what syllables are. You shouldn't teach 2000-level electrical engineering to 9-year-olds OR to freshmen, unless you like when things explode and people get hurt. The school isn't going to put on all the plays or play all the football games in the first week of September. You can't declare spring break on October 1. The school year or semester unfolds, in a REMARKABLY predictable timeline that has fluctuated very little in 100 years, no matter how chaotic your management is.
When you first meet somebody and connect like whoa and you have SO much in common and your loins are burning in a good way and you are absolutely sure this is your Forever? That's the first day of school. Everybody's on their best behavior and still figuring out the rules. Just because you get a room full of students who are - to various extents - buzzing about the new year and new clothes and new notebooks and the hope having a shiny new cooler identity and making new better friends... that doesn't mean you can hand them the final exams and graduate them right then. It's not time for that yet.
Over the first weeks and months of the school year or semester, more of the students' real personalities (and the implications of their lives outside school) are going to emerge. You're going to suss out who isn't getting enough food or sleep, who has other problems at home, who has learning disabilities that haven't been appropriately identified and accommodated, who has anxiety, who's coming back from visitation weekends with the non-default parent with trauma or their physical needs unmet, who just flat doesn't want to be at school for some reason.
This is exactly like any kind of relationship because the same stuff emerges with potential friends/partners/coworkers over TIME, real time, calendar days and months and years, NOT anxiety time. There is no way for you to know on the first day exactly who all the students are and how they learn, and it would be inexcusably shitty pedagogy to assume you do. You cannot know much about the individuals in those seats until they've had some chance to warm up, get settled, get comfortable with you, and start operating in a more baseline mode and going through the rhythms of their own real lives.
If anything, I'd argue you are not applying the agility demanded of teaching to your dating life, unless you really are doing your students the disservice of deciding you know exactly who they are in the first week and promoting them to the next grade. You HAVE to give people time to show you who they are under a multitude of circumstances, rather than going all-in when they seem so great in the shiny-and-new stage, because when you do that you're just having a relationship with a projection - or, I suspect in your case, an imaginary emergency flotation device.
You're denying the realness of these men, and it's frequently meaning you overlook a field of red flags but it also means you are going to overlook anyone who isn't coming in (inappropriately!) white-hot but instead IS a balanced nuanced human being with healthy boundaries who is going to unfold more carefully. You are not giving your potential partners a chance to be real people. You're not walking away when the real people they are turn out to be dangerous or crap. You aren't basing your trust in people in any experience, but in the fact you have a fizzy feeling.
Feelings are not a mandate. Limerence is not precognition. Dating is pre-loaded with a lot of big anticipatory anxious horny intense feelings, and you can feel exactly as fizzy about an active serial killer as you can about someone who turns out, in a 23AndMe twist, to be your half-brother. Fizzy does not mean forever is in the cards. Fizzy just means carbonation, the bubbles will die down after a bit and you will start to see the real surface. (And putting oil on the bubbles is an artificial means of speeding up the reaction; it's not a genuine experience.)
Fizzy does not mean someone has shown up to save you.
You can also have a lot of fizzy feelings from therapy, and again it's just fizz and you're not really going to even begin to know anything until the bubbles settle. It's the beginning.
I do actually believe in The Universe, and I do think you were granted a little Universal warning/correction/lesson, but you've rushed past the instruction to a conclusion instead of focusing on the homework.
Just...slow down. Just to start, slow the hell down. If you must date, know on the first date that you will not have enough data to know if this is a GOOD situation for three months minimum, but that the experiment could fail at any second and if so you must end it.
Try letting your feelings unfold fuck-sober for at least couple of weeks, and if you are using any other substances maybe also sober on those too.
Set a plan with your therapist that you want to do a check-in on yourself - this is not a session to gush about how great someone's many red flags are - in any new relationship every week the first month and at least two weeks the second and third. Set an expectation in yourself that no relationship can feasibly reach the "serious" stage for three months bare minimum (and in your case, 5 nights out of 7 should be sleeping alone for at least those 3 months - no playing house, stop aggressively "pursuing" which I think actually means using people like a drug so you don't have to deal with reality), with a reminder that most people don't set a firm intention for permanence until one or two years have passed. There's a reason for that.
And then yes, based on your past questions, you don't seem very good at "dating around" and that's okay - many people aren't or don't have the bandwidth - but understand this is you choosing your limitations and not instant monogamous marriage. You need to choose for yourself to take things more slowly and carefully. You helping yourself take things slow, you recognizing your own toxic patterns, you trying to navigate the world with stronger boundaries is entirely about putting yourself and your safety and emotional wellbeing first, it's not a shortcut to whatever it is you think a relationship is going to fix in you.
Rule number one remains: immediately walk away from complexity. One of my internal metrics developed over many years in AskMe is that no relationship question should really need more than one paragraph per year together. If you find your story with someone new - or a new job, a new car, a new neighborhood, a new pet - is turning into an essay, something is wrong. Stop right there, it's time for a serious assessment, you're in trouble, you need to step back.
posted by Lyn Never at 5:07 AM on May 18, 2023 [20 favorites]
I shouldn't have asked him to talk on the phone after we had spent the entire weekend together.
Try to stop seeing relationships like a game where if you make the exact right move it will all work out perfectly. This is a normal thing to want, but it's obvious from all your posts you come on super strong with relationships. Try taking a step back. Meaning do not initiate again. Right now. Change the pattern, as you seem to want to do.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:40 AM on May 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Try to stop seeing relationships like a game where if you make the exact right move it will all work out perfectly. This is a normal thing to want, but it's obvious from all your posts you come on super strong with relationships. Try taking a step back. Meaning do not initiate again. Right now. Change the pattern, as you seem to want to do.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:40 AM on May 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Your previous question is still in my Recent Activity on Metafilter. It hasn't been "a couple weeks". If you're going to therapy a couple times a week, you've been three times. Your former co-worker contacted you a couple days ago, and you've already had coffee, personal conversations about therapy, and a lot of texting. You gave us every justification for contacting the person you had the weekend fling with, and not a single person said "yeah, call him".
Next time you go to therapy, tell your therapist what you're telling us: that you've changed, you've done the work, you've figured out how to be single by going on a coffee date with a former coworker, you're no longer in that bad pattern or mindset, and you're ready to move on to work on other things. Then listen to what they say.
posted by donnagirl at 7:49 AM on May 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
Next time you go to therapy, tell your therapist what you're telling us: that you've changed, you've done the work, you've figured out how to be single by going on a coffee date with a former coworker, you're no longer in that bad pattern or mindset, and you're ready to move on to work on other things. Then listen to what they say.
posted by donnagirl at 7:49 AM on May 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
Changing your viewpoint/ understanding is nice; keep doing that. But changing your behavior takes time and practice, and you are engaging in the exact same behavior, so work on de-escalating your attachment, need.
Initiate contact if you want. It's not that big a deal. You're turning it into massive drama. Asking somebody to have coffee is just coffee. Life's complicated. People are complicated. Reaching out to humans within good intent is not horrible. Just dial it all wayyyy back. For your own sake.
posted by theora55 at 12:25 PM on May 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Initiate contact if you want. It's not that big a deal. You're turning it into massive drama. Asking somebody to have coffee is just coffee. Life's complicated. People are complicated. Reaching out to humans within good intent is not horrible. Just dial it all wayyyy back. For your own sake.
posted by theora55 at 12:25 PM on May 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
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posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:40 AM on May 17, 2023 [44 favorites]