talking to the cleaning person about cleaning is hard
April 2, 2023 3:23 PM   Subscribe

I have limited finances but decided to invest in my mental and physical health, both of which are under a lot of strain, by having someone come in to clean every month. She isn't doing a deep clean and this is causing me a lot of anxiety.

For a little while, "R" cleaned for me about twice a year, if I was going to be having out of town visitors or something. The limited amount of cleaning was mostly for my own financial reasons. R also cleans for my close friends (which is how I met her.)
The problem is that when she cleaned only a couple of times a year, she charged me a huge amount (for my budget) because she said it was dirtier than if she came every month (which it was.) She said it would be cheaper if she came every month. I thought it would also be easier to have a deeper clean if she were coming every month.
Now she's coming every month but... it's just not really clean enough for me when she leaves. She vacuums really really well, which is something i have trouble doing. She takes out the garbage.
But the kitchen floor still looks dirty -- just sort of mopped lightly. There are still always small bits of grime on the floor under the cabinets; the cabinets themselves still look unwiped (like if there was a small drip from cooking it will still be there); the counters are lightly wiped but not scrubbed; no book shelves or end tables are dusted; the stove top (which is glass) isn't more deeply cleaned than normal; the base of the toilet is not cleaned nor is the floor behind the toilet; the windows aren't cleaned, the mirrors are a bit streaky, etc.
To be clear: I am not really dirty. If people come over after she's been away for months, my house always looks nice. I mop the kitchen floor and scrub the cabinets and clean behind the toilet a couple of times between her visits, but the reason i've hired her is so I won't have to do it as often. When she comes over, there is no clutter, the counters are wiped, the floor is swept, etc. I just really want her to do a deeper clean.
In short, on first glance the house looks certainly nicer when she leaves because it's been really well vacuumed and a few things are glossier looking but...even the glossy look of the coffee table is... sticky with some kind of cleaning fluid she left unwiped. i just don't feel like the lack of deep cleaning is worth the money. She charges $75 and is here for about 60 to 75 minutes. Most of that is vacuuming including two flights of carpeted stairs which are hard for me to do on my own.
The problem is that I cannot seem to ask her to do a better job.
I just... can't say it.
I don't know why.
I don't honestly know what it reasonable to ask or expect.
It's really nice that I trust her. Once, I had a commercial service and I was robbed. It's nice having this one person who I know and trust.
I'm about to ask her not to come back at all, with some ridiculous excuse. But she works for my friends and I'm embarrassed. And I kind of want someone to help me still! I just always feel like it was a waste of money.
I honestly think she does a better job and spends longer at my friends' house -- it is also not the cleanest, but it doesn't have carpeting so I guess she's not spending the time vacuuming.
Why is this so difficult, and what should I say?
posted by little striped mule to Human Relations (21 answers total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
I think you have to say you'd like her to stay longer each time so she can do X, Y, Z. And you have to pay her based on how much longer she's staying. If younphrase it that way, you won't feel like you're complaining; you just think she's so great you want to hire her to do even more.

No one can clean your home, including windows, in an hour. If you want that book more time.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 3:31 PM on April 2, 2023 [31 favorites]


It may just be a miscommunication. Maybe the things you want are stuff she considers extras. One way to find out is talk to your friend and ask if those things are part of their monthly clean.

You're afraid of confrontation which is a very normal human fear. But don't assume that's where this is headed. Maybe you just have to request them/pay more. It's ok to ask her to tell you what she thinks a deep clean is.

If she won't do what you want, or asks more than you can pay, you will have a clearer idea of what your choices are. Maybe those things could be done every other month, etc.
posted by emjaybee at 3:35 PM on April 2, 2023 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: No one can clean your home, including windows, in an hour. If you want that book more time.

I should have been clearer. She has a packed day of houses. She won't stay longer. She sets the schedule and leaves when she thinks she's done. I know she is always rushing off to her next house.
posted by little striped mule at 3:47 PM on April 2, 2023


If you can’t get extra time with her, you can ask for her to rotate what she cleans, maybe everything gets vacuumed one month, and the windows/cabinets the next one? You will need to talk to her though about what makes sense though.

As to your sticky coffee table after she cleans, you can specify cleaners for specific surfaces, that’s a totally reasonable ask.
posted by larthegreat at 3:52 PM on April 2, 2023 [9 favorites]


Clarify what how her rates are calculated. Is it based on time, number of rooms, square footage, "standard list of tasks" etc.

If it's a standard list of tasks, then yes the windows or fridge or stove etc may be considered extras on top of a regular clean.

You are having trouble speaking up because the script in your head is, "Hey I need you to do a better job," which implies she's doing a poor job right now. Of course that sounds insulting and fight-y.

The right script is, "These are the tasks that are important to me. My budget is fixed, your time is fixed. From your current task list, these are the tasks that are less important to me, so do them last or don't do them at all."
posted by tinydancer at 3:55 PM on April 2, 2023 [6 favorites]


If you live in a big enough city that there are other options, honestly, I'd hire someone else who has an opening in their schedule to do the whole job. Get a recommendation on Nextdoor. It might be better with a team of two people, etc.
posted by pinochiette at 3:56 PM on April 2, 2023 [28 favorites]


If she can't stay longer then the question is this: is she waiting her time doing nothing or working weirdly slow when she's there? If not, she's doing everything she reasonably can in the time you're hiring her for. If there's something she's doing you want her to stop doing (or would be willing to have her stop doing) then you can replace it with some of the things you want. But you can't add more tasks or ask that tasks be done more deeply without somehow buying back the time somewhere else. That's not how time works.

If you feel like you can't cut anything else then either find a new person who can take more time or if you really really can't bear to replace her, have her specialize in something somehow (just do all yhe vacuuming the windows and mirros) and hire someone else to do the rest. But seriously just hire someone else who has enough time to clean your house.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 4:05 PM on April 2, 2023 [5 favorites]


What was the agreement when you hired her? Did you write out a schedule of what actually needs to be done and when? Or did you just say “come for an hour and I’ll pay you $75”?
posted by kevinbelt at 4:07 PM on April 2, 2023


Best answer: I have trouble with this because of some internalized shame around having someone else clean for me. Might this be true for you, too? If so, here’s a way of thinking about it that helps me: I’m not degrading or exploiting the person who cleans my house, I’m paying her for a service. If I want her to modify the service (e.g., mop a floor she typically sweeps), that’s something I can reasonably ask for, and she can tell me whether she can do it and how much it will affect the cost. It’s like asking your hair stylist to do something different—changing the length or shape of your hair might not affect the price at all, adding highlights would probably cost extra, but whatever you’re asking for, it’s a reasonable conversation to have with someone whose services you’re paying for.
posted by theotherdurassister at 4:10 PM on April 2, 2023 [7 favorites]


Response by poster:
What was the agreement when you hired her? Did you write out a schedule of what actually needs to be done and when? Or did you just say “come for an hour and I’ll pay you $75”?


I did not say come for an hour. - I do not pay her a rate / per hour. She looked my house over and said it would be $75 to clean my house, and $100 if I wanted the finished basement cleaned too which I declined. She doesn't charge 75 per hour, she charges based on something I don't know. She spends the same amount of time at my friends' house but charges them $60 because she's worked there longer. For me: Sometimes it's less than an hour, sometimes it's an hour and `15 minutes. We never specified tasks -- I have just sometimes told her not to clean some bedrooms hoping she'd spend more time in the kitchen. She works very fast, but it's a lot of carpet to vacuum I think it's not enough time to clean my house. Years ago, I hired someone who charged 25/ hour and I could pay her for a certain number of hours, and she got done what she got done in that time. It was just clear. In the current situation we never made anything explicit... that is what i'm trying to repair.
posted by little striped mule at 4:31 PM on April 2, 2023


I used to do scheduling for a cleaning company. For a deep clean, we advised about 1hr per room. So yeah, I am not surprised that she doesn't finish your whole house in that time! I agree that if you can't get more time with her, ask her to do a deep clean of one room the next time she comes - if you want her to spend more time in the kitchen, tell her directly "Today, I'd like just a deep clean of the kitchen and if you have time left, do x task."

If you do that, and you find her deep clean of the one room to be lacking, then maybe look for a different person/company.
posted by coffeecat at 4:39 PM on April 2, 2023 [5 favorites]


_Ask_ her: "What would it take to get my kitchen floor absolutely clean so that, for example, if I wiped any spot with a damp paper towel the paper towel would be completely white, and there is no sticky stuff or grime visible anywhere?"

Or make a list of standards like that, maybe put it in writing, and ask her what it would take to make that happen.

Also, you might consider if there are tasks she's doing now that you'd just as soon she didn't do, like dishes or laundry or something. Maybe you can swap those.

If that doesn't work out, you can tell her that you totally understand, she has so many clients, and she's in such demand, that you might need to hire a less experienced person who is less fully booked.
posted by amtho at 4:45 PM on April 2, 2023 [2 favorites]


Best answer: She’s a bad cleaner and that’s expensive. Softly fire her and replace her with someone better!

“Dear R,
I wanted to let you know that I would like to take a break from cleanings for a while. Here’s a little extra bonus to say thank you so much for the work you’ve done for me. I appreciate you!
-Name”

You may want to send her $25 or $50 to keep the relationship sweet. That’s optional but since you have mutual friends maybe worth it?

Then go find a better cleaner!!! Where I live minimum wage is $15 and I can get an amazing cleaner for $25/hour. Go on Facebook and search “neighbourhood name” +”families” or “moms”. Join that group. Post this:

“Hi everyone!
I’m looking for a weekly house cleaner who’s a thorough mopper and will notice things like food drips on the kitchen cabinets.
My budget is x per hour.
I live near (intersection).
Would love recommendations, thanks!”

Often young families have cleaners, and also trusted Nannies who would be happy to earn an extra $50 on the weekend if they can walk to the job location.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 5:18 PM on April 2, 2023 [30 favorites]


FYI, in my understanding windows are a whole separate job and are charged (and scheduled) separately.
posted by MexicanYenta at 5:20 PM on April 2, 2023 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: FYI, in my understanding windows are a whole separate job and are charged (and scheduled) separately.

Not to thread sit, but I didn't actually mean "doing windows" as in outsides of windows -- just a large picture window in the living room that a previous cleaner would squirt quickly with Windex while doing other things if she noticed the dog had left a super obvious nose smudge. These answers are letting me know that I need to be clearer and that probably $75/ hour is too much for the mental and physical labor I'm trying to save myself from spending on my own time. As 75/hour is a lot more than I personally make in my own job, I do have to make sure it's worth it. Thanks for comments everyone - marking this resolved.
posted by little striped mule at 5:42 PM on April 2, 2023 [1 favorite]


Best answer: You are totally right that talking about this stuff is hard! Plus, she sounds like a professional with a system that you don't really like, not someone who is new and would happily adapt to your preferences. I'd suggest you try someone else. I've paid a lot of people for various kinds of help on things like this (repairs, painters, babysitters, cleaners), and honestly, it is easier and less stressful to try 2-3 people until you click with someone than to try to change someone's way of doing things. She'll be fine -- I'm sure there's someone else who wants a quick clean.

As another reference point, I've had cleaners come in the Bay Area occasionally. The rate is like $35-40/hr (probably more like $25-30 in other places), and it takes like 6 hours to thoroughly take a 1000 sf three bedroom from "tidy but not clean" to "clean" (fridge, stove, bathroom, washing the sheets and towels, floors, no dishes, minor windows) with a couple special requests ("my kid drew on the couch cushion") so it may be more than you need or would allow them to make things really spotless. If you find someone who works hourly, then it's usually not a big deal to ask them to add a task (unless they're at the end of their energy level) or to just do the laundry room top to bottom or whatever.

If you do want to give someone more guidance, there are definitely checklists online you could find.
posted by slidell at 5:56 PM on April 2, 2023 [1 favorite]


Best answer: When I had a cleaner for my house, I had her do the living/dining room, kitchen, and bathroom, NOT the bedrooms. She charged $100 and generally worked around 3 or 4 hours (sometimes she'd bring an assistant and they'd get it done much faster). She definitely wiped down ever surface; my standards are low so I don't know if her dusting would have been up to yours.

But yeah, for $75 I'd expect at least two hours of work, and definitely visible streaks on the cupboards to be gone.

I would say the thing you learned from this is what your list is. I do think it's helpful to say "here's what I'd be doing in a deep clean; they might not all need to be done each week, but this is roughly the amount of work/cleanliness I'm looking for."

And just to reassure you, this is SUPER hard to talk about. I spent about a zillion years being annoyed at tiny things rather than ask for improvement. It's that weird place between being someone's boss, having a relationship of peers (because you are a client and she is a business owner), and feeling vulnerable because someone is in your space. The power dynamics feel all over the place, especially if she knows your friends.
posted by gideonfrog at 7:42 PM on April 2, 2023 [3 favorites]


Just get a new cleaning person. This one is very busy with other jobs, they will be fine. The amount of stress that it will take you to manage this relationship to something you like is way too high versus just hiring someone else. Life is too short to drive yourself crazy with something you are paying for to make your life easier.
posted by Mid at 8:33 PM on April 2, 2023 [3 favorites]


My cleaning service has a checklist of what they can do comprehensively and on each visit they check off what they did. They don't check everything because I am not paying them to do everything, ever. Additionally, every other visit I pay them to do a "full house" clean and the other times I pay them to do a "half house clean" so the items they do check off also change from cleaning to cleaning based on our arrangement.

Hire a cleaning service that has such a list. Or, create one yourself (see: internet) and make that the basis of your arrangement with your existing or future service providers. By the way, as others have noted, this person is providing a service that you are paying for, they are not a friend doing you a favor. Perhaps start with making sure you are both on the same page about what services are being provided: the checklist in that regard is, indeed, your friend!
posted by desert exile at 2:45 PM on April 3, 2023


As a person with some anxiety, I too have trouble asking a cleaning person to do more or clean better. Probably because there's so much people-shaming about people with money supposedly not respecting or valuing the hard work that cleaning people do, etc, and not wanting to make them feel like they're not good at their job. I realize that's dumb because they're getting paid a decent rate in CASH (pretty sure none of the cleaning people I hired reported the income because they balked at the mention of a W9 and 1099), but if I said any of this outloud (or in a Facebook comment) I'd be shamed and canceled and whatnot because people assume I don't respect their work. I do. I just know if I was getting paid $60-100 an hour to clean, the areas I cleaned would be spotless.

Anyway.

After trying a few cleaning people I realized I had less anxiety when I went back to cleaning everything myself because I didn't have to anticipate the disappointment after every visit.

The way cleaning people work around me is they charge more for a deep clean ($250-500 for a 1000 sqft 2 bedroom are the quotes I got) and less for a routine cleaning ($130-200). They're usually done within 2 hours, they bring an assistant for the deep clean. And after a routine cleaning, you betcha that all the corners are not cleaned and that random smudge on the wall from my kid is still there and it stresses me out before *and* after the cleaning, but they clearly state that walls are not included in a routine cleaning and they are happy to schedule a deep clean next time.

So I save myself the hundreds of dollars a month (and the ultimate disappointment) and do 5-10 mins of cleaning a day when I walk by an area that needs attention. I realize this doesn't help if you have a physical condition that makes it hard to clean. Just wanted to say that what you're describing is pretty typical.

Can you type out a script and practice it? Something like "I love having the house cleaned. After a few weeks I realized that what I really need is a more thorough cleaning of each area. Would you be able to do a deep clean of 1-2 rooms every week instead of a general house cleaning?" Or something like that. I just know the second cleaners in my area hear "deep clean" they charge a higher rate for the same amount of time.
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 3:26 PM on April 3, 2023 [1 favorite]


Coming from the position of someone who has been a cleaner and has satisfied extremely persnickety clients, I will tell you that for $75 you should be getting way more for your money. I charged $25/hour in 2015. I could usually go through a two-bedroom two bath house in four hours, assuming it was left reasonably picked up.

The first couple times I would spend 2-3 hours deep cleaning just one room, and the one last hour were spent on the rest of the house doing tidying, dusting all surfaces, and doing a vacuum/light mop.

For the major clean in the kitchen, for example, I would clean/wash all light fixtures and fans. De-cobweb corners. Wipe down all cupboards and edges, and if wood, renew the surfaces with a wood polish. Wipe above cupboards if not to ceiling, and scrub kickplates and all baseboards. Scrub and clean corners and edges by hand. If necessary, I would do the floor on my hands and knees once, and thereafter with a good mop. Wash counters moving everything, and wipe/clean all the appliances--things like de-crumbing the toaster tray and running vinegar through the coffee pot. (The microwave got cleaned inside every time I did a general clean.) Wipe down salt and pepper shakers and other items--for instance, I'd remove utensils from a ceramic pot, scrub it inside and out, and maybe wash the utensils for the ones that wouldn't get used much. The stove--all the knobs off, the drip pans taken out, extractor fan removed and scrubbed, oven cleaned, bottom drawer pulled out, cleaned, and floor swept and mopped underneath. Wipe refrigerator, clean top and scrub out gaskets. Clean inside if client wanted. Wash windows/sill and other glass fixtures. Wash/iron curtains, if any. Wash or hose off throw rugs. Wipe obvious spots on walls, doors, and light switch plates. If the client wanted, I would do a deep clean inside the cupboards and wash seldom used dishes, etc. I would also clean and organize a pantry, if desired.

I'm meticulous, but I work fast. With the exceptions of the interior cupboards, refrigerator, and pantry, what I've mentioned might take me up to four hours, and I might have to finish the rest a second day.

After the whole house was deep cleaned, I could focus on keeping it up by doing a little bit of deep cleaning when I did the general cleaning. At that point, if the client wanted the beds changed, laundry done, or curtains vacuumed monthly, I would make time for that. I usually did exterior windows twice a year, and would occasionally sweep the deck, etc. I'd turn the water on a lawn or garden if wanted.

The reason I've gone on and on with this is because I wanted you to know exactly what kinds of things I believe should be provided with a deep clean. If your cleaner doesn't do those things, then you should be able to ask for specifics. I agree that to have a cleaner come more frequently after an initial deep clean should be cheaper than having one come only once a year, However, the idea of coming more frequently is to be able to avoid having to do a deep clean!

If your cleaner is doing a sloppy job of mopping or leaving residue on your cupboards, call her out on it! As far as leaving mirrors streaked, I'm sorry, I'd have to fire her. That's just beyond unacceptable.

The other reason I've gone on and on about things like cleaning the pantry, vacuuming the drapes, watering the lawn and other extras is because a good cleaner will want to make sure you get what you need to have done.
posted by BlueHorse at 7:28 PM on April 4, 2023 [3 favorites]


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