stinky workplace

April 26, 2006 6:33 PM

Do some people not smell body odour? Is there a polite way of asking people to wear deodorant?

Colleagues of mine, otherwise possessing the normal range of social graces and conforming behaviour, reek of stinky B.O. Should I get over my hygienist fetish, or can I politely mention that I think that they stink to high heaven? Can they not smell themselves, or are they somehow ignorant of their stench?

Of course, it's also terrible on the train in in the morning (for some reason, it's always the indian students), but I accept that that is the price to pay for public transport.

posted by wilful to clothing, beauty, & fashion (38 comments total)

People usually can't smell themselves, unless the smell is unusually strong. You should also remember that not all cultures have the same standard of what is unacceptable BO.

One of the things about manners is that it's bad manners to correct someone else's. So, to answer your second question, no, not really.
posted by danb at 6:43 PM on April 26, 2006

Mention it to your manager. Maintaining a productive work environment is your manager's job. If your manager won't do anything about it then maybe HR, but you're probably out of luck.
posted by mendel at 6:46 PM on April 26, 2006

When I was a high school teacher, I used to have to deal with this all the time. Usually the offending (sorry if that's too harsh a word) student would be discreetly and anonymously sent to the nurse, who was a hilarious old lady who was really good at that sort of thing.

I would ditto what mendel said, but I would try to keep it anonymous. The manager could then send out a blanket statement reminding everyone (not just the offending coworker) of the dresscode, the importance of looking one's best, and, oh yeah, to wear deodorant.

You could also buy a bunch of sample-sized deodorants and leave them in teh bathroom. I know there have been times when I've been a bit stinky by the end of the day and would have loved to find an accessible product.
posted by lalalana at 6:51 PM on April 26, 2006

I've long wondered about this myself. And I know some bright, educated, upper-middle-class white people with the same issue, so it's not strictly cultural. My working hypothesis is that they just don't know about deodorant. I started using it in middle school because my mom told me to - had she not, I would probably still stink.

And as far as detecting their own stench, I imagine that's actually a very hard thing to do. Or rather, they are aware of how they smell, but do not realize that other people don't smell the same way. Detecting an absence of something is much harder than the reverse.

I'm a fan of leaving anonymous hygiene packages. Just a discreet box with a cheap travel-sized stick of deodorant or body spray or something on their desks. If they take the hint, great, and no one has been humiliated. If they don't, confronting them probably wouldn't work either.
posted by miagaille at 7:05 PM on April 26, 2006

Previously: "The dude who sits near me at work smells really, really, really bad." (The most common advice was to ask management or HR to deal with it.)
posted by mbrubeck at 7:08 PM on April 26, 2006

If you are referring specifically to the students mentioned in your post, you're dealing with a cultural thing; some cultures are more tolerant of odors than others, and in some cases it is actually considered manly to have a certain amount of odor.

So tread lightly (or not at all) on the train, as you might be stumbling into something sensitive.

If it's at work, on the other hand, it would be appropriate to mention it to HR if it's a significant problem. After all, regardless of the cause (cultural, apathy, sociopath) your work environment has standards, and all employees should conform.
posted by davejay at 7:18 PM on April 26, 2006

sorry, should have said "you're POSSIBLY dealing with a cultural thing"
posted by davejay at 7:18 PM on April 26, 2006

Ask management to improve your workplace's ventilation while you're at it.
posted by flabdablet at 7:24 PM on April 26, 2006

I don't wear deodorant. I shower daily, and work in a setting that doesn't involve strenuous physical labor. On the rare occasions I've noticed myself sweating copiously I keep my distance from others until I can get home and shower. I'm 44 and have never been told I stink.

I do not have a particularly sensitive nose, but neither am I insensitive- in fact, I smelled the garlic sauteeing in the staff lounge today when no-one else at my table of 6 did. I occasionally smell the perspiration of others and don't find it objectionable. I have also smelled the odd person who stinks of more than just sweat- this is what I think we call B.O. and yeah, sure, it's a foul smell. I probably notice this smell on a person something less than once a year.

I absolutely understand that it's possible I'm constantly annoying my coworkers with my smell and that they are simply too polite to let me know. I just don't think this is the case. I actually believe that the industry that produces and sells deodorant and anti-perspirant survives by helping to convince people that their products are a necessity, when in fact for most people in most situations it may not be.

Yes, I understand that I am just asking for it here.
posted by carterk at 7:54 PM on April 26, 2006

You could send them a Monk-e-mail.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 8:06 PM on April 26, 2006

It has come to my attention this year that some people just somehow skipped the "time to start wearing deoderant/antiperspirant" part of adolescence. Otherwise well-mannered, well-dressed folks that adhere to all other grooming norms sometimes just were apprently never told. And apparently didn't get told in the locker room either. And now, are the subject of AskMe questions.

Sometimes this is a kind of chain reaction, where someone's folks never have this talk with their kid, assuming that he (it usually a he) will figure it out when people tell him he stinks, and no-one does, so he never has that talk with his own kid.

Anonymous packages don't work for these strange innocently stinky people. After all, they must see the long aisle of many underarm products in the drug store on the way to buying their shaving cream. I guess they ignore it sort of the way I don't notice tongue scrapers, press-on nails, whitening strips, and anything else that I never felt the urge to try?

Wilful, one way to bring it up is in terms of "appearences count, even if this sounds superficial...your shirt shows that you're sweaty, which makes you look nervous/unprofessional. Yeah, yeah, we all sweat, but seriously, you're never gonna get a promotion like that."

If my tongue really needs scraping, could one of you please gently tell me so?
posted by desuetude at 8:08 PM on April 26, 2006

I've been the smelly guy before. The problem is that people become desensitized to constant stimulus, and this includes things like the taste of your own mouth and the smell of your own body. If you get to the point where you've become desensitized, as I had, you have no idea there's a problem until someone points it out to you.

However, this
... a discreet box with a cheap travel-sized stick of deodorant or body spray or something on their desks...
can be incredibly embarassing, especially in a school or office environment. Have your boss, HR, or someone socially delicate broach the subject.
posted by lekvar at 8:13 PM on April 26, 2006

I'm a fan of leaving anonymous hygiene packages. ... If they take the hint, great, and no one has been humiliated.

That would really humiliate me, were I the recipient. Every person I passed in the hall, I would think: Is this the person that thinks I stink?

If you have the rapport and personality to pull off "Duuuude, you stink," then do that. If you don't, take it to HR.
posted by deadfather at 8:15 PM on April 26, 2006

Showering is not enough, folks.

If I recall junior high health class correctly, we humans have two kinds of sweat glands-one of which activates more around puberty, and produces the kind of sweat which reacts to germs and makes our pits reek.

If the idea of deodorant is not appealing, I understand that milk of magnesia applied to armpits also works nicely.
posted by konolia at 8:18 PM on April 26, 2006

I actually believe that the industry that produces and sells deodorant and anti-perspirant survives by helping to convince people that their products are a necessity, when in fact for most people in most situations it may not be.

Disclaimer: I am by no means one of those people who thinks that they need to be throughly scrubbed and sanitized to face the day. I rail against antibacterial products. I don't get all freaked out at notion that people don't always wash their hands after they pee, as long as they don't pee on their hands and as long as they're not on their way to touch my food.

BUT, carterk, dude. Ever notice that the pits of your shirt are damp, probably visibly so? Your armpits can go all free and natural on your off hours and weekends. At work/social functions, consider antiperspirant or deoderant as you would an expected-though-not-particularly-useful accessory, like a necktie.

(And then tell my assistant what I just told you, since I'm too chickenshit to do it myself, except to strangers on the internets.)
posted by desuetude at 8:22 PM on April 26, 2006

carterk, chances are that you've been crossing the line from time to time and really impinging on other people's goodwill.
posted by NortonDC at 8:30 PM on April 26, 2006

I wear antiperspirant, and can't imagine being out in public without it.

But I had a rooommate, a very close friend, who just didn't need deodorant. He never smelled. We took dance classes together, went to clubs, and he would sweat, but he never smelled.

So, carterk, I believe you. But I really don't think it applies to everyone, or even most people.
posted by occhiblu at 8:34 PM on April 26, 2006

Rumor is there's some spice in certain Indian cuisine that causes body odor.

The sophomore class in my major as a whole has no hygiene. In our computer lab, on a blackboard where rules (half of them jokes) appear, I just today wrote SHOWER in big letters. I don't have much tact.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 8:41 PM on April 26, 2006

If you shower every day with soap you should be able to sweat a bit or not wear deoderant and not stink the place up. My guess is that these folks are skipping more than just the deoderant: either they're not showering, they're not using actual soap with anti-bacterial properties of some sort or they're wearing dirty clothing with old sweat in it.
posted by fshgrl at 8:52 PM on April 26, 2006

It's not only how often you bathe and your use of deordorant. It's also important to wear clean clothes consistently. It's possible that it's the clothes that stink from the build up of many days of wear and/or from having been stored in a smell place.
posted by raedyn at 9:32 PM on April 26, 2006

I'm more often put off by hygiene freaks with overpowering fake scents than by stinky b.o. people. I think this might be an old world / new world cultural thing, because I very often notice that North Americans are just "too clean", sending their stinky cologne / scented shampoo / soapy foo foo smell all around them.
posted by Meatbomb at 9:38 PM on April 26, 2006

I also think that some people just stink less, but keep in mind that an individual's stinkyness can change over time due to environmental factors or diet. Here are two useful nuggets from the FDA:

Sweat itself is odorless. It's the bacteria that live on the skin and break down the sweat that cause the unpleasant odor.

There are two types of sweat glands. The eccrine glands, which we are born with and which are the most numerous, produce most of the sweat in the underarms. These glands open directly onto the surface of the skin. Apocrine glands, which are triggered by emotions, develop in areas abundant in hair follicles, such as the scalp, underarms, and genitals. These glands only begin to secrete sweat after puberty, and have little, if anything, to do with temperature regulation.

So, just because you get hot and sweaty doesn't mean that you will stink. And, conversely, just because you haven't exercised doesn't mean you won't. Best to use some antiperspirant/deodorant, unless you have it from a trusted source - and in an up-to-date fashion - that you aren't stinky.
posted by dammitjim at 9:56 PM on April 26, 2006

I think mostly it comes down to relationship. If you know the person who smells, really it's only polite to tell them they smell... friends don't let friends smell.

But if you don't know them, you can still show them you respect them and tell them. Don't leave it up to HR. Take responsibility yourself, cause honestly, no one else is going to either. It's up to you.

Think about it: people don't WANT to stink or to be ostracized, so while it might sting for a bit to hear they smell, in the long run they'll appreciate that you valued them enough to tell them.

I even have in the past, respectfully of course, and it was appreciated.
posted by Galen at 10:50 PM on April 26, 2006

I've had to speak to people in these circumstances several times - always awkward, but assuming you don't have a manager or HR department to turn to, I think taking a serious private discussion and trying as hard as you can to alleviate their inevitable humiliation is the way to go (unless they have already been spoken to - in which they're fair game).

It's nice to depersonalise the discussion if possible - frame it in terms that you also find having to raise the issue awkward and a little embarassing, that you empathise with them, but that you are forced to discuss it with them. By no means personalise it in terms of "lots of people in the office have complained" at the first discussion.

By the way, I think 90% of the time the problem is accumulated stink on infrequently washed clothes, so just deodorant won't solve the problem.
posted by bifter at 3:58 AM on April 27, 2006

The problem smell can come from sweaters, which people are less inclined to wash regularly. They can get pretty bad. I've noticed this in people who otherwise were just fine.
posted by Goofyy at 4:09 AM on April 27, 2006

The other half is standing here, insisting I speak out to support meatbomb's comment about non-Americans. The other half seems to think that Europeans are likely to be 'annoyed' by someone using underarm.

I don't agree with him. He's just a Belgian. They certainly sold enough underarm in Germany. Yet, the other half isn't using underarm, and doesn't usually stink.

But I sure as hell DO agree that perfumes/colognes can be far more irritating than BO. One stinks, the other burns.
posted by Goofyy at 4:14 AM on April 27, 2006

That would really humiliate me, were I the recipient. Every person I passed in the hall, I would think: Is this the person that thinks I stink?

Really? That's more embarassing that being told by your boss or HR person that everyone you know thinks you're disgusting? Well, I'm exceptionally nonconfrontational, so maybe it's just me.
posted by miagaille at 4:48 AM on April 27, 2006

Galen, bifter, anyone: what were the actual words you used to talk to people?

I, too, believe that we should actually communicate with each other about stuff like this, but it's difficult. A big part of not offending/embarrassing people seems to me to come from them actually believing that the speaker *likes* and *respects* them, so that's an important prelude to telling them. But hints on actual wording, circumstances, etc. -- anecdotes -- could be tremendously helpful.
posted by amtho at 6:22 AM on April 27, 2006

It's funny that some people are saying "maybe" it's a cultural thing. This is one hundred percent a cultural thing. The OP and most people answering live in a culture where body odor is unacceptable, and are having a problem because of that.

I'm not just trying to be contrary. If you have to approach a person about a problem you are having, a way to do that non-confrontationally is to make it about the problem *you* are having, and not the problem you think they are having. It's a bit of a semantic difference, but "I know this is a hang-up from living in a hyper-clean culture, but I'm having difficulty in meetings because I can smell your body" might go over better than "look, you are stinky and you'll never get a promotion and why don't you learn to use DO?"

Grant it, both of these are difficult and awkward, and neither may work for you. In general, though, I think that re-orienting the issue towards yourself helps make it a lot less accusatory (and please note that I'm not saying this shouldn't be an issue for anybody, just that we should recognize our tolerance levels as variable and therefore to some degree our own personal issues).
posted by carmen at 7:20 AM on April 27, 2006

A guy who worked in the department I once managed had shoes that were a vile pit of smelly despair.

I sent out an e-mail to everyone, trying in a light-hearted manner to encourage greater attention to such things. The shoes never made another appearance.
posted by Bud Dickman at 8:05 AM on April 27, 2006

Can't really remember to be honest amtho. I tend to make things like that non-accusatory and passive where I can. I probably said some or all of the following things:

- This isn't about your work, or about you - both are working out great
- It's a very awkward thing to bring up, but there is frequently an odour in the area of the office that you sit. It seems that it is probably stale clothes. I can't say it's a big problem for me, but it is the sort of thing that others can be bothered by. Would you mind please paying particular care to this area?
- Obviously this discussion will be kept completely private, and I'm really sorry to have had to raise it at all

I tend to be far less oblique if I have to ask twice, and I just go for the throat with people that leave the toilets in a state. :-)

Frankly though, I think that someone else's choice of words is not the best thing to use. Best to play on your existing relationship with them, and convince them that it is solely an issue that involves you and them, and that you share to some degree their embarrasment over the subject.
posted by bifter at 8:09 AM on April 27, 2006

"I know this is a hang-up from living in a hyper-clean culture, but I'm having difficulty in meetings because I can smell your body" might go over better than "look, you are stinky and you'll never get a promotion and why don't you learn to use DO?"

I agree that it is absolutely a cultural thing. Not wanting to smell someone's BO in a professional or social setting is not a peculiar and individual hang-up, it's the societal norm in the US. Much like appropriate dress for the occasion, not chewing with your mouth open, not flagrantly picking your nose, and other standards of politeness, it can be debated whether the expected norm is dumb or not. But I disagree that this should be broached as a personal preference/issue.
posted by desuetude at 8:20 AM on April 27, 2006

One thing I did like about being the Army (there weren't many) was the bluntness. If a soldier stank, he or she was told so, and another soldier was assigned to make sure they took showers. If their room stank, they were supervised as they cleaned it out and checked up on to make sure the behavior didn't continue.

I oversaw many new recruits who came in with no concept of hygiene or cleanliness - it just hadn't been part of their upbringing.

But when you work in close quarters - like a tiny control van, or sharing a barracks - things like hygiene and cleanliness are more than just olfactory issues and must be dealt with in a more direct manner.

In the workplace, an "individual's" culture should be subservient to the overall culture. If other people in the office use deoderant, you should too. Just like if your working with the overseas office, don't get offended if they smell more ripe than you do.

Sometimes I miss just being able to tell someone the truth, regardless of how it makes them feel. Here's to passive-agressive corporate culture. . .
posted by spslsausse at 8:47 AM on April 27, 2006

It has come to my attention this year that some people just somehow skipped the "time to start wearing deoderant/antiperspirant" part of adolescence. Otherwise well-mannered, well-dressed folks that adhere to all other grooming norms sometimes just were apprently never told.

Luckily, my wife doesn't stink. It's not that she was not told about antiperspirant, she was actually told too much and won't believe otherwise.
posted by tfmm at 9:31 AM on April 27, 2006

I'm with carterk, fshgrl, and Meatbomb on this one. Like previous posters have pointed out, if your clothes are clean and you wash every day, and don't work a strenuous job, I won't have a problem. But I know most people are slightly more sensitive about body odors, some intensely so. Glad I don't have their nose.
posted by Rash at 9:37 AM on April 27, 2006

[slight derail]
Apocrine glands, which are triggered by emotions, develop in areas abundant in hair follicles, such as the scalp, underarms, and genitals'

So how come only arm pits (and not "down there") have that typical "sweat" smell?
[/derail]
posted by ClarissaWAM at 9:59 AM on April 27, 2006

I dunno, clarissa, maybe your nose just isn't close enough to smell it, or maybe other scents overpower the sweat smell. I definitely smell more sweat when i get upclose and personal with a guys genitals than I do just sitting beside him. It seems reasonable that this would hold true for women as well.
posted by raedyn at 10:16 AM on April 27, 2006

Something I just thought of, as a side comment on this -
In my (extensive but purely anecdotal) experience, people who have are obviously not showering or maintining their hygene are often dealing with other issues as well. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this "lack of attention" was actually a distancing mechanism, a means of keeping other people at bay while dealing with inner demons. It could be that your smelly coworker is dealing with some serious shit in his/her life, all the more reason to be upfront but polite.
posted by lekvar at 1:18 PM on April 27, 2006