Answering the call to creative work yet not seeking glory and fame
March 3, 2023 11:06 AM Subscribe
Mary Oliver, who is wonderful, wrote “The most regretful people on earth are those who felt the call to creative work, who felt their own creative power restive and uprising, and gave to it neither power nor time.”
I have mixed feelings about this. Is my life a failure if I'm not a published writer? It seems kind of toxic.
How do you find outlets for creative work that you find fulfilling and that may never turn into a career or public recognition? I would love to hear your experiences.
I'm tired of hating myself for not doing more creative work, and yet I feel the pull.
I guess I need to learn about art for art's sake, and the joy of amateur work.
I'm tired of hating myself for not doing more creative work, and yet I feel the pull.
I guess I need to learn about art for art's sake, and the joy of amateur work.
What strikes me is: there’s nothing at all in that quote about getting public recognition, getting published, or making a career out of your art.
I have two creative outlets: fiction writing and collage art. The latter is something I’ve done since I was a kid and find soothing; at a certain point I started posting my work online, both on my own social media and a dedicated tumblr, got positive feedback, and then based on that feedback I made a Redbubble shop. I don’t really promote it and have sold a handful of prints over several years. With writing, I had much more of the kind of angst you describe for a long time, but then I started writing fanfic, which is aggressively anti-grind in the sense that you really can’t make money from it; that got me to enjoy writing for its own sake, and resulted in me doing more original work. I’ve published one story so far, and a goal for this year is to finish at least one more and start submitting it.
I have a totally unrelated career - in fact I used to have a writing-heavy career and left it partly because I wanted to save my writing energy for myself, not my job. I do often wish I had more time for this stuff, but I’m still doing it and finding fulfillment in it.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:20 AM on March 3, 2023 [13 favorites]
I have two creative outlets: fiction writing and collage art. The latter is something I’ve done since I was a kid and find soothing; at a certain point I started posting my work online, both on my own social media and a dedicated tumblr, got positive feedback, and then based on that feedback I made a Redbubble shop. I don’t really promote it and have sold a handful of prints over several years. With writing, I had much more of the kind of angst you describe for a long time, but then I started writing fanfic, which is aggressively anti-grind in the sense that you really can’t make money from it; that got me to enjoy writing for its own sake, and resulted in me doing more original work. I’ve published one story so far, and a goal for this year is to finish at least one more and start submitting it.
I have a totally unrelated career - in fact I used to have a writing-heavy career and left it partly because I wanted to save my writing energy for myself, not my job. I do often wish I had more time for this stuff, but I’m still doing it and finding fulfillment in it.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:20 AM on March 3, 2023 [13 favorites]
1) Just because she says a thing and it sounds good and it resonates with things you felt before -- does not make it true. See: every speech ever by a fascist; The Internet.
2) Don't overconstrain the meaning of "creative".
3) If YOU feel something, honor THAT feeling. Also honor the other things you have put your time and energy into; you are intelligent and finite, and you make the choices that are right for you. If what's right for you changes over time, that just means you're alive.
posted by amtho at 11:22 AM on March 3, 2023 [12 favorites]
2) Don't overconstrain the meaning of "creative".
3) If YOU feel something, honor THAT feeling. Also honor the other things you have put your time and energy into; you are intelligent and finite, and you make the choices that are right for you. If what's right for you changes over time, that just means you're alive.
posted by amtho at 11:22 AM on March 3, 2023 [12 favorites]
I find it interesting that you equate "power" in that quote with "publication." There are many ways for writing to be powerful that are not public. I'm trained in writing for publication and have received numerous accolades from published writers indicating I could find success in that career. I dabbled in it for a while, and found that the primary effect of writing for publication was to severely restrict my creative spirit and lessen the power of my work. Writing to be published is not about making the best art--it is about making the most marketable art. Marketable art can still be powerful, but it requires careful navigation that I simply felt wasn't the best use of my time.
Now I just write for myself. There is a lot of power in work even if you never share it--creative writing for myself was how I realized I was transgender, and how I processed a lot of trauma from my childhood. I do share some of this work with my partner and my friends, when I feel like it might resonate with them as well. There's nothing wrong with writing for an audience, but if you're struggling to write, I wonder if that's holding you back at all. Once I stopped writing with anyone else in mind but myself, I went from writing almost nothing for years to around 150k words in the last year alone.
I have, very occasionally, gotten something publishable out of that. Two published short stories in ten years is not much in terms of professional success, but I don't measure by that. It's not my goal, and when it was my goal, I either didn't write or wrote things that didn't resonate with me. So I consider it a happy accident rather than something to strive for.
posted by brook horse at 11:27 AM on March 3, 2023 [10 favorites]
Now I just write for myself. There is a lot of power in work even if you never share it--creative writing for myself was how I realized I was transgender, and how I processed a lot of trauma from my childhood. I do share some of this work with my partner and my friends, when I feel like it might resonate with them as well. There's nothing wrong with writing for an audience, but if you're struggling to write, I wonder if that's holding you back at all. Once I stopped writing with anyone else in mind but myself, I went from writing almost nothing for years to around 150k words in the last year alone.
I have, very occasionally, gotten something publishable out of that. Two published short stories in ten years is not much in terms of professional success, but I don't measure by that. It's not my goal, and when it was my goal, I either didn't write or wrote things that didn't resonate with me. So I consider it a happy accident rather than something to strive for.
posted by brook horse at 11:27 AM on March 3, 2023 [10 favorites]
She’s not saying your life is a failure, she’s saying your life will be regretful. Which it sounds like it is, even from your short post here.
And believe me, that quote is the bane of my existence because it is the truest statement about my lived experience that has ever been put to paper.
posted by lydhre at 11:40 AM on March 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
And believe me, that quote is the bane of my existence because it is the truest statement about my lived experience that has ever been put to paper.
posted by lydhre at 11:40 AM on March 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
When you're young, there's this weird thing where society tries to convince you that to live a good life, you need to change the world, through art, through action, through whatever.
And honestly, most of us somewhere around middle age eventually come to the conclusion that you don't have to change the world. If you can find a way to live in it and be happy, that means you're doing a great job.
Write or don't write. Just do what makes you happy. The ability to write isn't a burden you have to be mindful of, it's a path you can choose to take or not take. You also might have been a championship figure skater. Or a gifted harmonium player. You shouldn't feel any worse about not writing than you do about not getting into skating or trying the harmonium.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:45 AM on March 3, 2023 [14 favorites]
And honestly, most of us somewhere around middle age eventually come to the conclusion that you don't have to change the world. If you can find a way to live in it and be happy, that means you're doing a great job.
Write or don't write. Just do what makes you happy. The ability to write isn't a burden you have to be mindful of, it's a path you can choose to take or not take. You also might have been a championship figure skater. Or a gifted harmonium player. You shouldn't feel any worse about not writing than you do about not getting into skating or trying the harmonium.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:45 AM on March 3, 2023 [14 favorites]
Mary Oliver, who is wonderful, wrote “The most regretful people on earth are those who felt the call to creative work, who felt their own creative power restive and uprising, and gave to it neither power nor time.” I have mixed feelings about this. Is my life a failure if I'm not a published writer?
She only means to give your creative self an outlet. She doesn't say anything about what KIND of outlet it is - if you really feel like you have to knit, but all you ever knit is a bunch of sweaters for all of your cousins' babies, then that still counts. You're not a clothing designer, but a bunch of little babies in the world have sweaters, and that's a good thing.
How do you find outlets for creative work that you find fulfilling and that may never turn into a career or public recognition?
Behold my blog. That's what I do now after having spent 10 years actually trying to get published - and, actually, I did get published, with articles in a couple of online sites, including Atlas Obscura. (Someone actually made an FPP about one of my Atlas Obscura pieces, not knowing it was me!) The biggest reason I stopped chasing publication is that I was starting to not have fun - it was becoming more about "trying to think up an idea that I think other people would like" than it was "writing about what I want to write about", and I realized that the latter would make me way happier.
So now I have my blog, and about 50-100 people read it a day, and the biggest and most active follower I have is this dude in Denmark who has decided to comment on just about everything and I'm perfectly content with that. I put it down, people might pick it up or they might not, but I'm fine either way.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:50 AM on March 3, 2023 [18 favorites]
She only means to give your creative self an outlet. She doesn't say anything about what KIND of outlet it is - if you really feel like you have to knit, but all you ever knit is a bunch of sweaters for all of your cousins' babies, then that still counts. You're not a clothing designer, but a bunch of little babies in the world have sweaters, and that's a good thing.
How do you find outlets for creative work that you find fulfilling and that may never turn into a career or public recognition?
Behold my blog. That's what I do now after having spent 10 years actually trying to get published - and, actually, I did get published, with articles in a couple of online sites, including Atlas Obscura. (Someone actually made an FPP about one of my Atlas Obscura pieces, not knowing it was me!) The biggest reason I stopped chasing publication is that I was starting to not have fun - it was becoming more about "trying to think up an idea that I think other people would like" than it was "writing about what I want to write about", and I realized that the latter would make me way happier.
So now I have my blog, and about 50-100 people read it a day, and the biggest and most active follower I have is this dude in Denmark who has decided to comment on just about everything and I'm perfectly content with that. I put it down, people might pick it up or they might not, but I'm fine either way.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:50 AM on March 3, 2023 [18 favorites]
There are lots of ways to flex our creative muscles, even in words, that don't involve formal publishing. You can have a substack or medium, for example (or whatever the online publishing outlet de jour is). I think I'm pretty good writer, but I've never committed to any kind of regular writing practice. Some things that helped me express this creative impulse:
I did NaNoWriMo once, several years ago. I had some scenes and a concept for a novel in my head, and committing to daily writing in (online) community did exactly what I needed: it got it out. With the emphasis on word count, it forced me to write rather than edit, so it was a great exercise.
Pre-pandemic, I occasionally attended a writing activity/group where folks got a prompt and responded to it during the time together (I think we had 30 minutes or so). It was fun to try to create a semi-coherent snippet in that limited time. Then we read them to each other, if we wanted. I appreciated that we did the writing together and then shared it, and I also appreciated that we were all sharing, essentially, pretty rough pieces.
There are also other ways of being creative, like sewing, or decorating your house, or doing some diy painting. Maybe check out your local arts organizations or parks and recreation offerings to see if they have any classes where you create something, like a painting or jewelry or a scarf or whatever.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:54 AM on March 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
I did NaNoWriMo once, several years ago. I had some scenes and a concept for a novel in my head, and committing to daily writing in (online) community did exactly what I needed: it got it out. With the emphasis on word count, it forced me to write rather than edit, so it was a great exercise.
Pre-pandemic, I occasionally attended a writing activity/group where folks got a prompt and responded to it during the time together (I think we had 30 minutes or so). It was fun to try to create a semi-coherent snippet in that limited time. Then we read them to each other, if we wanted. I appreciated that we did the writing together and then shared it, and I also appreciated that we were all sharing, essentially, pretty rough pieces.
There are also other ways of being creative, like sewing, or decorating your house, or doing some diy painting. Maybe check out your local arts organizations or parks and recreation offerings to see if they have any classes where you create something, like a painting or jewelry or a scarf or whatever.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:54 AM on March 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
It sounds like writing is where you feel called, but maybe it would help you to try another avenue of creative expression as a beginner for awhile? Learning to make space in your life for something that you are not adept at may help you identify what you value about creativity for its own sake. Me, I dance. I don't have the space in my life to remotely consider trying to be a professional performer, but I still find joy and fulfillment in being a perpetual student.
posted by EvaDestruction at 12:18 PM on March 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by EvaDestruction at 12:18 PM on March 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
What does it mean to give creative work power and time?
Time seems like the easy one. If I sit down and work on my novel, if I daydream about my novel while I'm driving across the state, if I do research and reading that's related to my novel, I'm giving it time.
Power - that's harder to nail down. What that means, to me, is putting my creative brain in the driver's seat. If I'm spending my hour a day writing my novel, but I'm making all of my decisions based on what I think is going to sell, or what somebody on Twitter is going to call problematic, or whether my old creative writing professors would raise their eyebrows at me for wasting my time on ecogothic fungal romance, then I am failing to give my creative work power.
(I don't want to be previous about this. In any creative career, it is normal and fine that some decisions be based on what's going to sell, or what somebody on Twitter is going to call problematic. But it seems to me that it is easy to give your creative work time without also giving it the room to be weird, and playful, and dangerous.)
It also means that I don't get reflexively over-humble, or talk my work down. I am done being the person who says "Well, I wrote this book but it isn't very good," or any of that "I'm bad, please don't look at me" stuff. Treat it like it matters.
posted by Jeanne at 12:19 PM on March 3, 2023 [8 favorites]
Time seems like the easy one. If I sit down and work on my novel, if I daydream about my novel while I'm driving across the state, if I do research and reading that's related to my novel, I'm giving it time.
Power - that's harder to nail down. What that means, to me, is putting my creative brain in the driver's seat. If I'm spending my hour a day writing my novel, but I'm making all of my decisions based on what I think is going to sell, or what somebody on Twitter is going to call problematic, or whether my old creative writing professors would raise their eyebrows at me for wasting my time on ecogothic fungal romance, then I am failing to give my creative work power.
(I don't want to be previous about this. In any creative career, it is normal and fine that some decisions be based on what's going to sell, or what somebody on Twitter is going to call problematic. But it seems to me that it is easy to give your creative work time without also giving it the room to be weird, and playful, and dangerous.)
It also means that I don't get reflexively over-humble, or talk my work down. I am done being the person who says "Well, I wrote this book but it isn't very good," or any of that "I'm bad, please don't look at me" stuff. Treat it like it matters.
posted by Jeanne at 12:19 PM on March 3, 2023 [8 favorites]
Speaking from my own experience, I always thought I wanted to write fiction because my brain is constantly spinning up ideas: characters and plots and places and details. I habitually daydream, and I've tried to ignore it from time to time, but after 50 years I've come to accept that's just how my brain works. I worked in book publishing for a decade, though, and one of my friends is a working author of middle-grade fiction. I have learned that no one can succeed at just writing; the hustle is a whole second job on top of that. And that fact was enough to steer me away from writing any more novels after my first two and a half unpublished ones.
But somewhere in there I rediscovered tabletop role playing games. And it turns out that the way my brain works is perfect for running games as a GM/DM. I get to create collaborative worlds and scenarios and characters for people sitting right in front of me. My audience and co-authors are a tight circle with immediate feedback. I'm not saying this is the right choice for you, but there are lots of ways of using your creative juices that don't have to involve the hustle or getting famous.
I created lots of visual art in high school and college, too, and though I do a little cartooning mostly for my own amusement, my other main creative outlet is knitting and designing knitwear patterns. That contributes to my job as a yarn shop owner, but I'm never going to get rich from it. You have to see these things as their own reward, or they'll never seem worth doing.
posted by rikschell at 12:19 PM on March 3, 2023 [6 favorites]
But somewhere in there I rediscovered tabletop role playing games. And it turns out that the way my brain works is perfect for running games as a GM/DM. I get to create collaborative worlds and scenarios and characters for people sitting right in front of me. My audience and co-authors are a tight circle with immediate feedback. I'm not saying this is the right choice for you, but there are lots of ways of using your creative juices that don't have to involve the hustle or getting famous.
I created lots of visual art in high school and college, too, and though I do a little cartooning mostly for my own amusement, my other main creative outlet is knitting and designing knitwear patterns. That contributes to my job as a yarn shop owner, but I'm never going to get rich from it. You have to see these things as their own reward, or they'll never seem worth doing.
posted by rikschell at 12:19 PM on March 3, 2023 [6 favorites]
writing about what I want to write about
I used to get really down about not writing “seriously”. Like, as a career or something. Or even a side hustle. In retrospect this was more about what I was doing for a career at the time. Now that I have a job I like, I probably write something like 10,000 words a week, not including outlining, revision, etc. And I don’t publish a single one (unless you count AskMe replies). I have no desire to. Those are for me. That’s not entirely true; I posted five-page guide to playing every rock band instrument well enough to start a band as a comment on a friend’s Facebook post with some ChatGPT-generated band names the other day. But nobody read it, and I don’t care. I write to organize thought, and I don’t need readers to do that. “Write the story you want to read.” I’ve done that, and having done that, I don’t care if anyone else wants to read it too.
Maybe someone will look through my hard drive after I die and I’ll be the next Kafka. (I even work for an insurance company, just like the original Kafka.) Or not. I still wrote what I wrote.
posted by kevinbelt at 12:36 PM on March 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
I used to get really down about not writing “seriously”. Like, as a career or something. Or even a side hustle. In retrospect this was more about what I was doing for a career at the time. Now that I have a job I like, I probably write something like 10,000 words a week, not including outlining, revision, etc. And I don’t publish a single one (unless you count AskMe replies). I have no desire to. Those are for me. That’s not entirely true; I posted five-page guide to playing every rock band instrument well enough to start a band as a comment on a friend’s Facebook post with some ChatGPT-generated band names the other day. But nobody read it, and I don’t care. I write to organize thought, and I don’t need readers to do that. “Write the story you want to read.” I’ve done that, and having done that, I don’t care if anyone else wants to read it too.
Maybe someone will look through my hard drive after I die and I’ll be the next Kafka. (I even work for an insurance company, just like the original Kafka.) Or not. I still wrote what I wrote.
posted by kevinbelt at 12:36 PM on March 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
At one point I studied to be an art teacher. That is where I came across this idea: it's the process not the product. If I ever got a word tattoo, I think it would be this one. It's so important to my creative process - it allows me to relax and have fun with what I'm doing. Every time I start to get freaked out about my art or my photography I have to go back into my head and remind myself of that. It really is, you know, and that's what Mary Oliver is talking about in your quote. The making is the important part, not any of the rest of it. You are one of those people who has a drive to put something out there in the world. So am I! To honor that drive, all you got to do is make things. They don't have to be perfect. Nobody has to see them but you.
At this point in my life I have recognized that I am never going to be a famous photographer or a famous artist and that's okay. I do not have the drive to do the self promotion it would take to get me there along with a lot of other things *cough* independent wealth *cough* or, honestly, the drive to work for hours every day until my work got better. If I did, I would be a very different person and I like the person I am and the paths my life has taken. Not gonna lie, it was hard to give up that dream! And it was hard when I realized after times in my life when I did have the time and energy to put hours daily into my work that I was still never going to be famous. But eventually I remembered - it's the process not the product.
Sure, there are regrets, but there is no point in dwelling on them. When my brain starts to go down that path, that what-if path, I tell myself sternly: no coulda, no shoulda, no woulda. And I move on. I still have goals - some day, I want to have a one woman show in a place that does not serve draft beer. That's it, that's my goal, and maybe I will reach it. Maybe not! That is okay too. Meanwhile, I know that I am a better, happier person for myself if I noodle around with making, doing, something creative at least a few times a week.
posted by mygothlaundry at 12:38 PM on March 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
At this point in my life I have recognized that I am never going to be a famous photographer or a famous artist and that's okay. I do not have the drive to do the self promotion it would take to get me there along with a lot of other things *cough* independent wealth *cough* or, honestly, the drive to work for hours every day until my work got better. If I did, I would be a very different person and I like the person I am and the paths my life has taken. Not gonna lie, it was hard to give up that dream! And it was hard when I realized after times in my life when I did have the time and energy to put hours daily into my work that I was still never going to be famous. But eventually I remembered - it's the process not the product.
Sure, there are regrets, but there is no point in dwelling on them. When my brain starts to go down that path, that what-if path, I tell myself sternly: no coulda, no shoulda, no woulda. And I move on. I still have goals - some day, I want to have a one woman show in a place that does not serve draft beer. That's it, that's my goal, and maybe I will reach it. Maybe not! That is okay too. Meanwhile, I know that I am a better, happier person for myself if I noodle around with making, doing, something creative at least a few times a week.
posted by mygothlaundry at 12:38 PM on March 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
Amateur creative work is painful. It is hard to know the type of work you'd like to do and simultaneously know your skills aren't there (yet). And it's also hard to know you've achieved a level of skill that allows you to make the type of work you'd like to do and simultaneously not be getting traction in terms of publishing or similar. At always, at every step, requires energy, vulnerability, and patience.
I would also suggest that Mary Oliver is kind of wrong--or, more accurately, is taking poetic license. It is not factually true that the most regretful people on earth are those who felt the call to creative work, who felt their own creative power restive and uprising, and gave to it neither power nor time. The poetic truth is, people who feel that tug and call toward creative expression right now and read those lines will feel something. What I feel, for instance, is that I would like to argue with Mary Oliver about what strikes me as a fairly flippant, judgmental statement. (I am not saying this is the only, best, or correct way to understand what she's saying. She may be describing a specific person she has direct experience with, trying to reflect their personal despair at the end of a life in which they avoided their creativity for self-motivated reasons. But I don't experience humans as giving neither power nor time to something precious and important unless there is trauma, external coercion and pressure, survival needs, or another grief-worthy reason to cut off that creativity.)
posted by theotherdurassister at 1:09 PM on March 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
I would also suggest that Mary Oliver is kind of wrong--or, more accurately, is taking poetic license. It is not factually true that the most regretful people on earth are those who felt the call to creative work, who felt their own creative power restive and uprising, and gave to it neither power nor time. The poetic truth is, people who feel that tug and call toward creative expression right now and read those lines will feel something. What I feel, for instance, is that I would like to argue with Mary Oliver about what strikes me as a fairly flippant, judgmental statement. (I am not saying this is the only, best, or correct way to understand what she's saying. She may be describing a specific person she has direct experience with, trying to reflect their personal despair at the end of a life in which they avoided their creativity for self-motivated reasons. But I don't experience humans as giving neither power nor time to something precious and important unless there is trauma, external coercion and pressure, survival needs, or another grief-worthy reason to cut off that creativity.)
posted by theotherdurassister at 1:09 PM on March 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
Why are you feeling bad about not giving it time? Because you *want* to give it time and make it more of your life but are giving it short shrift and feeling disappointed by that, or because you feel like you "should" be writing more and "be more creative" but you actually prefer to spend your time on other things...?
Sometimes there is an impulse to make your own wishes small, to turn your desire to write into a little hobby that isn't worth talking about or disrupting anything for, like you can't write in the morning because you're making breakfast, and you can't write at night because you're cleaning house, and you can't be writing any time your kids might need your attention, and it just shrinks and shrinks until you have no time for it because it's not a priority and you won't let it affect your life in any way. That is giving your creative drive neither time nor power.
posted by Lady Li at 1:49 PM on March 3, 2023 [4 favorites]
Sometimes there is an impulse to make your own wishes small, to turn your desire to write into a little hobby that isn't worth talking about or disrupting anything for, like you can't write in the morning because you're making breakfast, and you can't write at night because you're cleaning house, and you can't be writing any time your kids might need your attention, and it just shrinks and shrinks until you have no time for it because it's not a priority and you won't let it affect your life in any way. That is giving your creative drive neither time nor power.
posted by Lady Li at 1:49 PM on March 3, 2023 [4 favorites]
I also should say - ok, it’s REALLY HARD to separate the drive to create with the drive to be recognized for an achievement. It took me years and years to realize that. But the way I try to think about it is: the drive to be recognized, get acclaim and praise or whatever, is in no way limited to creativity. It’s almost universal. People who do martial arts can feel that way, people who manage parks or deliver babies or make coffee or teach pre-k or run political campaigns… there are a million different paths to getting that dopamine hit of recognition and praise.
But you’re not fantasizing about being a well-known and respected breakdancer or research scientist or whatever. You’re fantasizing about writing.
So, why? Why writing, and not something else? Because you like coming up with settings or characters or plots? Because you’re a good writer and people keep telling you to write things? Because there’s a writer you admire and want to emulate? Because every time you read a bad book you think “I could do that better?” It could be all or none of those. But completely aside from your desire for recognition, there must be some reason that THIS is the thing you zeroed in on, as opposed to literally anything else. Figure out what the reasons are and focus in on those.
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:08 PM on March 3, 2023 [4 favorites]
But you’re not fantasizing about being a well-known and respected breakdancer or research scientist or whatever. You’re fantasizing about writing.
So, why? Why writing, and not something else? Because you like coming up with settings or characters or plots? Because you’re a good writer and people keep telling you to write things? Because there’s a writer you admire and want to emulate? Because every time you read a bad book you think “I could do that better?” It could be all or none of those. But completely aside from your desire for recognition, there must be some reason that THIS is the thing you zeroed in on, as opposed to literally anything else. Figure out what the reasons are and focus in on those.
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:08 PM on March 3, 2023 [4 favorites]
keys to defeating this:
posted by j_curiouser at 2:30 PM on March 3, 2023 [4 favorites]
- (to paraphrase) "the point of doing a thing is not to be good at it." - vonnegut
- "cynacism is the death of the artist." - r. fripp
- 10 minutes a day.
- grumblebee's oft-recommended timeless comment on passion.
posted by j_curiouser at 2:30 PM on March 3, 2023 [4 favorites]
I write and post on AO3. Some fanworks, but original fiction too. I don't want the work of being a published author. I figure maybe my work finds an audience or maybe it doesn't, but if it makes even one person's life a little easier to bear I feel good about what I've made.
posted by potrzebie at 2:34 PM on March 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by potrzebie at 2:34 PM on March 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
No disrespect to Mary Oliver, but writers always overrate the importance of writing and the most regretful people are those who spent all their 2011 bitcoins on pizza and weed.
If you love writing, the process, not the idea of writing or being a writer, then write. But that's not the only way to lead a life a filled with creativity.
posted by betweenthebars at 4:29 PM on March 3, 2023 [8 favorites]
If you love writing, the process, not the idea of writing or being a writer, then write. But that's not the only way to lead a life a filled with creativity.
posted by betweenthebars at 4:29 PM on March 3, 2023 [8 favorites]
Working through The Artist's Way helped me identify what I want to do with art. Some of it's just for me, some of it may turn into more, and some of it is just part of my professional life.
posted by knile at 6:49 PM on March 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by knile at 6:49 PM on March 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
I think Mary Oliver's just saying "you'll regret it if you want to do creative work and never do it." Not a word in this about fame. (Frankly, I'm SICK of "wild and precious life" since mine isn't, that one's a lot worse.)
I've wanted true love and fame all my life. I will never have either. The former's not under my control, obviously, but I've decided to never pursue getting famous because it is simply too fucking dangerous to be a woman who is seen and heard in our current world. I'll get stalked/doxxed/harassed for the rest of my life if the masses ever see me. It's not worth it. I already got some of that from a shitty coworker, I don't need the rest of the world to join in.
However, you can do your creative thing and even post it online without getting famous! I don't bother to try to get published by anyone. I do theater but I'm a bit player so nobody's ever going to care. I did storytelling pre-pandemic and that was a minor career I would have pursued further, except the pandemic killed my ability to write those stories :( and fame in that area is pretty small anyway.
But here's the key thing: As long as you stay off social media or anything popular, you can do whatever the hell you want! I have various extremely old school unpopular blogs without my full name on them (in some cases it's hard to find any name) and they don't have much or any audience, and I can publish whatever the hell I please without life exploding on me. I have only one blog that any friends bother to read, and that's just my craft blog. Nobody else gives a shit about anything else I write online. My book blog only gets hits from people who are Googling for the names of certain books. One blog I have only has ONE person who reads it and it's not even someone I know IRL (I'm probably his only reader too, frankly) and another one is only read one month a year because I do an online blog project. Now, if I was on the 'gram for my craft projects, I'd probably get some level of Internet fame (I note one guy I know was all "I have two pictures on my Instagram from 8 years ago, why do I have so many followers?!") because I do do some things that could/would be an Internet hit if they were seen, but since I don't do that, I stay safe.
You CAN do your creative thing if you want to without having to seek fame. You can avoid it very easily as long as you don't post where lots of people will see. If you don't care about having an audience--clearly I don't--it's doable.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:54 AM on March 4, 2023
I've wanted true love and fame all my life. I will never have either. The former's not under my control, obviously, but I've decided to never pursue getting famous because it is simply too fucking dangerous to be a woman who is seen and heard in our current world. I'll get stalked/doxxed/harassed for the rest of my life if the masses ever see me. It's not worth it. I already got some of that from a shitty coworker, I don't need the rest of the world to join in.
However, you can do your creative thing and even post it online without getting famous! I don't bother to try to get published by anyone. I do theater but I'm a bit player so nobody's ever going to care. I did storytelling pre-pandemic and that was a minor career I would have pursued further, except the pandemic killed my ability to write those stories :( and fame in that area is pretty small anyway.
But here's the key thing: As long as you stay off social media or anything popular, you can do whatever the hell you want! I have various extremely old school unpopular blogs without my full name on them (in some cases it's hard to find any name) and they don't have much or any audience, and I can publish whatever the hell I please without life exploding on me. I have only one blog that any friends bother to read, and that's just my craft blog. Nobody else gives a shit about anything else I write online. My book blog only gets hits from people who are Googling for the names of certain books. One blog I have only has ONE person who reads it and it's not even someone I know IRL (I'm probably his only reader too, frankly) and another one is only read one month a year because I do an online blog project. Now, if I was on the 'gram for my craft projects, I'd probably get some level of Internet fame (I note one guy I know was all "I have two pictures on my Instagram from 8 years ago, why do I have so many followers?!") because I do do some things that could/would be an Internet hit if they were seen, but since I don't do that, I stay safe.
You CAN do your creative thing if you want to without having to seek fame. You can avoid it very easily as long as you don't post where lots of people will see. If you don't care about having an audience--clearly I don't--it's doable.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:54 AM on March 4, 2023
The writing memoir "Big Magic" by Elizabeth Gilbert speaks a lot to this, and it's a valuable entry on my shelf for that reason. Yes, she's the Eat Pray Love author, and a few moments in the book get a little "woo" for my taste, but she writes at length and very compellingly about what it means to live a creative life, and to engage with (and play with) your own creativity, whether or not it nets you any recognition or fame or publication. I highly recommend it to basically every writer/artist I'm friends with (with the above caveat) and so I pass this along to you as well.
posted by Zephyrial at 6:56 PM on March 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Zephyrial at 6:56 PM on March 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
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I'm tired of hating myself for not doing more creative work, and yet I feel the pull.
In other words, you are regretful for having given your call to creative work neither power nor time, just as she says. She's making a statement about feelings related to doing or not doing the thing for yourself. There's nothing in her quote about external validation.
posted by heatherlogan at 11:19 AM on March 3, 2023 [37 favorites]